₦airaland Forum

Roland17:
OOOOOO LORD!!!!!!!!! Baba, I give up! As if using the injury excuses is not enough, you want to use your subjective interpretation of individual awards to discredit Totti's achievements? Kaii. I give up Baba!!! lol.

It's not a matter of giving up or not giving up. If Totti did not challenge himself to join a club where he can face the best of Europe every season then why should that be on Del Piero?

One player was facing the likes of Bayern, Madrid, Monaco, Man United, Barcelona, Ajax in their prime and netting them.

We should now stick to the one shining against Palermo, Reggiana and Livorno on a weekly basis but did zilch in Europe

We should then go to Azzuri where Totti's best was in a World Cup where they faced

USA
Ghana
Czech Republic
Australia
Ukraine

And those were the teams Totti went to pad his stats against. How??

Ibime:
You might be of slightly younger generation Sir.

Nobody who saw Ronaldo pre-1998 would compare him to 2000s Ronaldo.

He was a shadow of himself by then.

I can't believe anyone who watched Ronaldo will even be making that argument.

Even with aid of Google you can see every thing post 99 dip nevermind if you actually saw him play

Roland17:
Did you say 1 La Liga? Wrong! Ronald won 2 La Liga titles 02/03, 06/07. I expect you belittle that among the others I mentioned before this post. 05/06, he finished as the highest goal scorer in the South American qualification table and we all know how tough that zone is. I listed more at least 6 individual records/ titles Ronaldo won post-injury. I can imagine a world where every player made excuses for their injury. I have debunked all your questions but you keep shifting the goal post.

I am waiting for a response to these questions.

Hahahaha are you La Liga BBVA that awarded Ronaldo title in 2007? He had left by January and I doubt he had more than 5 appearances. Ronaldo has just 1 La Liga to his name bruv

His individual records I have listed in a pinch. He won the World Cup and the Pichichi.

80% of Ronaldo's accolades came before his injury. I can't believe this is even an argument.

The real Ronaldo was 96-98 every Ronaldo afterwards was a watered down version. Similar to Del Piero who also still won a Golden Boot in Serie A, led the league in assists and helped Juventus to a CL Final.

Roland17:
Bar the Serie A you said? How about individual records playing for Italy? You only want to mention goals abi? How about assist records between both players where Del Piero’s numbers dwarf Totti’s despite Del Piero having more appearances and minutes played? You want to avoid that one abi? How about Italian player of the year which Totti won 5 times in comparison to Del Piero’s 2. so what is Del Piero’s excuse this time?

Well since Del Piero is ahead on goals and Totti ahead on assists. Ojoro don cancel

Player of the Year is your normal polling booth award and you know how I feel about polling booth awards.

The koko is when they both faced the big boys of Europe

Del Piero 90 apps 42 goals, a CL title and a CL Golden Boot. Tell me what Totti achieved

Roland17:
Because you chose to exclude the World Cup, Confederation Cup, FIFA player of the year, Balon D’Or and La Liga titles he won win Real. Ronaldo suffered the horrific injury in 1999 in a game against Lecce but some how rehabbed and continued with his greatness post 1999, so what is Del Piero’s own excuse?

You can win an award and still not be the same player. Because I know you can't tell me with a straight face that Ronaldo of 96/98 is comparable to what we saw afterwards.

The individual awards Ronaldo won was all in one season. He had a great World Cup but if it were now we both know he might not have even won the Balon D'or

5 years at Real. 1 La Liga title, 1 Pichichi, and Intercontinental Cup. How is that one continuation of greatness?

Kimbeast:
Over the course of the respective careers Totti is the better player, there's really no argument otherwise worth even considering
Del Piero in his best season though(97/98) was better than Totti at any point in his career. Though having said that, Del Piero was most likely Doped up to his eyeballs that season.

His goals and all-round performances against elite Europe opposition does not agree with this claim.

No credible source has found or indicted Del Piero for any type of dope use so it's better you return that claim to where you found it because it's completely disrespectful to allege a man cheated without verifiable evidence. I'm sure if you were an athlete you will not take kindly to such claims

Roland17:
Conversely, I will make the argument that Totti played for a team that competed against teams with higher transfer budgets and recruited the best legs in comparison to Roma. Totti competed against financial giants like Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan. Roma’s financial clout was not comparable to these teams yet he achieved these records.
If roles were switched and Del Piero player for Roma throughout his career and Totti played for Juventus, would Del Piero achieve 2/10 of what Totti achieved with Roma?

I can also make argument that Wenger competed against teams with higher transfer budgets and recruited the best legs in comparison to Wenger. Arsenal didn't have any financial clout compared to United, City and Chelsea so Wenger must be the best coach known to man

If roles are reversed I'm sure Del Piero will win more than 3 major titles in 22 years. What we are unsure of though is if Totti who was a local champion at Roma would be able to perform at Juve where the standards and expectations are much higher

PDPGuy:
Here is the final D’Tigers roster for the World Cup:

Vincent Nnamdi, Chimezie Metu, Ike Diogu, Ike Iroegbu, Michael Eric, Benjamin Uzoh, Al Farouk Aminu, Zanna Talib, Stanley Okoye, Jordan Nwora, Joshua Okogie, Ekpe Udoh

Wow. Alade Aminu didn't make the squad

Kimbeast:
Totti was never able to replicate his form with Roma with Italy. To be fair Del Piero struggled in that respect too (although he scored much more goals - 27 in 97 games).

Totti was good at Euro 2000 and at World Cup 2006. Didn't do a lot inbetween, but an important role in reaching the final of one tournament and winning another isn't a bad international record.

Even the peak of Totti's achievement for the Azzuri this was his opposition

USA
Ukraine
Ghana
Czech Republic
Australia

3 debutants, and another team that had been absent for 32 years. His production came vs those teams

Kimbeast:
Both were amazing players and the difference between them is very slim, but I have to go for Totti.
In both their primes, Del Piero was probably a bit better. However, after his injury in the late 90's, Del Piero was never quite the same player.
Totti is superior due to the fact that he's overall a better player and he's more of an asset to a team. He was far more versatile and could play as a striker, second striker, attacking midfielder, and he was world class in all the positions he played in. Totti was also a much better passer and physically stronger.
Del Piero has won more titles, but he has also played with a far better team.

I have seen enough from Del Piero's prime and even when he was not at his prime he was still able to make important contributions to his team's success.

For me there is nothing Totti is doing that Del Piero cannot do if required. Del Piero can play all 3 positions you listed above, was an absolute sniper from free kick range and the much better dribbler.
When he was asked to create he led the league in assists

The Del Piero winning more titles can only be a negative if he was a passenger for those titles but he absolutely was not so that argument is DOA

Kimbeast:
How can you call totti overrated........ seriously. That Totti is even mentioned in the same sentence as Del Piero despite the disparity in team quality is a testament to how good Totti really was.

It is easier to shine when you're the big fish in a small pond. Who knows what Fabregas's career would look like had he never left Arsenal.

You mention team quality but it is players like Del Piero that provided that quality. It's not coincidental that his peak saw Juve as the strongest team in Elite Europe

Roland17:
Del Piero did not stop playing g football in 2006 did he?

Ahn ahn why is it so hard for you to show me a severe injury Totti suffered while entering his prime like Del Piero did. You even mentioned Ronaldo but you left out the fact that even he was never quite the same after.

Roland17:
It is not Del Piero’s fault that Totti chose to remain with Roma despite offers from the best clubs in the world. So why should Totti be burdened with the fact that Del Piero could not stay healthy? Totti dragged a lowly Roma to 9 2nd place finishes in the Serie A, just think about that.

That's his wahala. The important thing is even with the injury history Del Piero outscored Totti in every competition aside the Serie A.

It's nobody's fault that Totti could not make any impact in Europe and lead Roma to even an Intertoto Cup.

raumdeuter:
DelPiero and Ronaldo were the young future of football in the late 90s

I still remember DelPiero vs Ajax in 1996 final. He was unreal

E no go better for injury.

Roland17:
Fa fa fa! Foul!!! Let us debate about their respective records in the Serie A and the Italian National Teams. I have posted their respective records and individual honors up there. When Totti won the golden boot in the Serie A, he also won the Euro golden boot in the process unlike Del Piero. What was the highest number of goal Del Piero scored in a Serie A season in comparison to Del Piero?

Lewwwl why will I debate about the Serie A and Italian NT record alone? Is that the only competition they played?

Golden Boot is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It only proves that among all the leagues you scored the most goals. You cannot definitely compare to winning the Champions League Golden Boot.

Del Piero scored at least 10 goals for 17 Serie A seasons. That is more relevant than one hot season.

Let's not even go to Europe because I know shame for Totti will not let you ageee

Roland17:
All these subjective variables just to favor Del Piero is only making my case. Totti’s injury history shows he was out at different stages in his career and had numerous surgeries so I will not allow you guys define the narrative of this argument based on Del Piero’s injury woes.

07/08 Totti was out for 112

When you win back to back league titles (in what was universally acknowledged as the best league in Europe at the time), win the CL Golden Boot, get to back to back to back CL Finals as the star man of your team and then suffer a devastating injury in your prime then I think the What if scenario is very valid.

You still didn't show me the season before that 2006 that Totti suffered any severe injury that would suggest he was a shadow of himself for the most part of his International team career

chic2pimp:
No excuses I admit but still Him playing in a more advanced role partly contributed to that.

In Korea Japan, eventhough they were both pants, Guess who had the better tourney? Yup you guessed right Totti did

In 2004, As per usual, Alex disappers yet again after being given the task of leading the team in the absence of Totti. Fiore and Pirlo(sign of things to come) were our best players.

In 2006, whether nah Set pieces abi nah party tricks, a half fit Totti was the better player of the two. As i said earlier as far as the Azzuris are concerned, Totti shone brighter. It's not even up for debate.

How did Totti have the better tourney in Korea Japan? Is it not the same Totti that was huffing and puffing on the pitch till Del Piero came off the bench to save them from disgrace?

How did Alex disappear? He provided the match winner in their only game they won while Totti was spitting on people like a pregnant woman after their opening match.

In 06 Totti went to the WC and padded stats against World Cup debutants like Ghana, Ukraine and Czech Republic. Scored a dodgy penalty vs another footballing giant like Australia and that's shining. Okrrrrrrr

Roland17:
Baba, first it was the assists were corner kicks and set pieces, now it is 71 of those goals came from PK like Del Piero did not score PKs? Is it Totti's fault that he was skilled in taking these kicks in comparison to Del Piero? But you are quick to mention Del Piero converted his spot-kick but the same can not be argued for Totti? I am not buying all these subjective excuses that can not be also made for the Golden Boy.

But I am stating nothing but facts here. 36% of Totti's goals came from the spot.

Del Piero was an equally skilled penalty and free kick specialist as well but the gulf between the difficulty of scoring from a penalty and a free kick is quite significant.

The question is in elite Europe why does Totti have absolutely nothing to show at any level. Whether CL, Europa League even Intertoto Cup. And don't tell me it's because he stayed in Roma because nobody send am message

Roland17:
66 of 91 is 2/3 of his entire appearances. Totti can make a similar argument when you consider he played lesser minutes and was also suffered injuries intermittently. I don't buy this injury argument you guys are coming with.

No he actually can't. I want you to show me a season where Totti suffered an injury that kept him out from November till the next season before 2006.

I'm saying anything you got out of Del Piero after 98 was jara. So for over 66% of his NT career what you were seeing wasn't really prime Del Piero

Don't compare to Totti who retired after the 2006 World Cup

Roland17:
Individual Honors

Del Piero:

UEFA Champions League Top Scorer 1997-1998

Serie A Top Scorer 2007-2008

2x Italian Footballer of the Year 1998, 2008


F. Totti:

European Golden Boot 2006-2007

Serie A Top Scorer 2006-2007

2x Serie A Footballer of the Year 2000, 2003

5x Italian Football of the Year 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007

Euro 2000 MOTM

Del Piero:

457 appearances; 198 goals for Juventus

91 appearances; 27 goals, 7 assists for Italia


F. Totti:

443 appearances; 192 goals for A.S. Roma

58 appearances; 9 goals, 23 assists for Italia

It is not even close when you dissect the numbers because Totti matched, doubled or tripled any record Del Piero has. So what are we even talking about here?

http://www.legaseriea.it/en

71 of those goals came from the penalty spot!!! That's over 36%

Del Piero's achievement in elite Europe also significantly dwarfs that of Totti so it's rather convenient that you leave that one out

A40:
Also bear in mind that Totti is Italy's primary set piece kicker and so his assists numbers will always be inflated

Roland17:
Here you go.

Del Piero played 5,625 minutes

F. Totti played 3,794 minutes.

Del Piero played a whopping 1.831 more minutes for the Azzurri than the Golden Boy yet the Golden Boy dwarfs him!!!! So what is your next excuse?

Did you miss that part?

And the fact that it was post injury Del Piero for majority of those international appearances. 66 of his 91 appearances came after that serious injury

Roland17:
A lot of if's and but's. Totti suffered several injuries during his career, he even played world cup games injured and still performed. El Phenomenon suffered an injury that could have ended his career but guess what? He went ahead to become a bigger demon ost injury, racking up numerous individual and team achievements. Abeg make una no dey use another person weakness hold pesin down.

It is not matter of ifs and buts. Prime Del Piero led Juve to a Champions League title and 3 CL Finals. Winning highest goalscorer in the competition to boot.

And no Ronaldo did not become a bigger demon post injury. In fact bar the 2002 World Cup what other major tournament do you remember Ronaldo dominating?

Roland17:
Assist Record for Italy

F. Totti

Appearances: 57
Assists: 23

A. Del Piero

Appearances: 92
Assists: 7

This is with Del Piero making 35 more appearances than Totti and according to you, playing more as a SS. The discrepance is a gulf as Totti dwarfs him in assists.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/francesco-totti/nationalmannschaft/spieler/5958
https://www.transfermarkt.us/alessandro-del-piero/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4289

Lool you can like to show us their starts and minutes played. You suppose to know say I no be newcomer for this game. It's not coincidence that Del Piero has the most goals off the subs bench in Azzuri history.

Also bear in mind that Totti is Italy's primary set piece kicker and so his assists numbers will always be inflated

Kimbeast:
Let's not forget that in that period Juventus was accused of using drugs. juventus were pumping their players full of PEDs in that period. PEDs that were mostly legal at the time(due to being new). No wonder del piero became a shadow of himself.
It almost certainly contributed to his injury and was likely the main reason why he went 3 years looking like a shade of himself afterwards.

We're not here for accusations that can't be proven. Plus all the other activities Juventus were accused of did not fall in Del Piero's prime so that argument DOA

Del Piero suffered a career threatening injury in November of 1998 that made him miss the rest of the season. Not forgetting he had personal issues with his ailing father. Throwing PED arguments is irresponsible as Del Piero still came back the next season to lead the league in assists.

And in 2002/2003 helped Juve to a CL Final as well

Roland17:
A Big Fish in a small pond that had Roma punching above its weight, winning the Scudetto with multiple Coppa Italia? A Big Fish in a small pond that kept Roma competitive in the Seria for decades? Who was AS Roma before the Golden boy showed up? Can the same be said about Juventus? I am not going to allow anyone argue and limit Totti's relevance based on Del Piero's injuries or inconsistencies with the Azzurri's because in sports competition availability is the most important skill.

Wenger also had Arsenal punching above their weight and competitive but when it mattered most they always flatter to deceive so that's really neither here nor there.

Roma were a solid team from the 80's to early 90's. I recall they made a European Cup Final at some point in that time period.

Juve being great had nothing to do with anything after all they hadn't won the league in 10 seasons till Del Piero started peaking. Their only success was in the second tier cup competitions. Del Piero made them relevant in Europe again and they were the best in Europe in that spell

Roland17:
Totti and Del Piero went to the world cup in 2006, who had a better showing? Despite going into the competition injured, Totti finished the competition with the highest assist, what did Del Piero offer the Azzurris? Del Piero was renowned for missing clear cut chances for Italy and that pitched him against most Italian coaches. Del Piero saved the day for Italy in Japan/ Korea but I am supposed to disregard a MOTM award for Totti even in a losing effort? Did Italy win the Korea/ Japan World cup in 2006? No, Brazil did, so why should Totti's achievement be disregarded?

Joint highest. 3 of his 4 assists came from corners and free kicks. Del Piero past his peak still provided an assist in the game vs Czech republic that sealed Italy's progress, he also scored the dagger goal that ended Germany's dreams. Not forgetting he converted his spot kick for Italy in the shootout where Totti didn't even get past the 60 minute mark

What I'm showing is that same way Del Piero had bad performances is the same way Totti had bad performances. And it was Del Piero that came off the bench to bail Italy out in Korea Japan.

Roland17:
The Golden Boy record as the 2nd highest scorer in the history of the Serie A still holds strong and this is despite rotating different positions on the pitch. In almost 20 years, Del Piero scored 208 goals in 513 appearances for the Bianchonerri's, Totti, on the other hand, scored 250 in 613 appearances for Roma. You have carefully compared both players using goals forgetting Del Piero played as a forward/ Striker/ Winger for the most part of his career while Totti was more so a deeper-lying player maker and seldom played as forward or striker. Can we talk about their assist numbers for the Azzuri, respective clubs and in total?

Lool Totti was a striker for a significant period of time in his time at Roma. He scored 21 more penalties and played almost 200 more matches.

If it's assists Del Piero has shown capacity to provide that. In the 2000 season when he was asked to playmake he did so and led the league in assists.

The question is when did Totti ever match the production of peak Del Piero? Totti was never the best player in the strongest team in Europe at any point in his career. Nobody asked Totti to not leave Roma to prove himself

chic2pimp:
How will a Centre Back lead in either goals or Assist? Btw you said and I quote "How are you in the Balon D'or Conversation if you are not the best or most influential on your team"?. Considering VVD is going to place higher than Alex ever placed, do you agree He is liverpool's best too?

It's debatable with VVD regardless. You can argue Salah, Mane, Allison are as important as VVD with coherent arguments to back it up

You cannot do that with Del Piero. You can't successfully prove that between 95-98 Del Piero was not Juve's best player

chic2pimp:
Reoccuring without ever threatening to win shows He was not going toe to toe with anybody. In 95, George had almost triple His votes whilst second placed Jurgen had pretty much double.

He won more trophies and scored almost as many goals as both of them did

He was going toe to toe because he was the only reoccurring name in that timeframe. There were also actual numbers on the pitch to back it up as well and not polling booth numbers

Kimbeast:
Totti was better than Del Piero - the latter was more of a goalscorer and a slightly better dribbler due to agility/change of pace, but Totti was the far better passer and was more instrumental to his side. In the early-mid 00's everything good about Roma went through Totti. For a primarily creative player his scoring record is outstanding, and goals are only one aspect of what Totti offers.

I disagree. Del Piero was much more than a goalscorer. Maybe you have forgotten Del Piero was Baggio's replacement at Juve.

It's easier to be more instrumental when you're a big fish in a small pond. Like saying Harry Kane is more influential for Tottenham or Riyad Mahrez more influential at Leicester. Put them in bigger teams and their influence will obviously wane.

Don't confuse evolution for lack of ability. At Juve each time he was asked to create he almost always led his teams in assists. Del Piero could do it all.

And frankly his peak was higher than anything Totti did at club or country level.

At Roma Totti was his team's primary penalty kicker. Plus he had lengthy spells were he was pretty much a striker. For the Azzuri I don't know what's impressive about 9 goals in 58 appearances

raumdeuter:
The guy who introduced me to European football A juve fan if you see him raving about DelPiero ahhh "Golden boy"

Delpiero made Zidane second fiddle at Juventus

Injuries robbed us off prime Del Piero. Had Del Piero been healthy that 98/99 season I don't see United beating them. They could well possibly have made 4 straight CL Finals

chic2pimp:
So we agree VVD is the best and most influential player in this current Liverpool team?

VVD leads Liverpool in goals and assists like Del Piero did? I didn't know

chic2pimp:
Kai kai Which kain Ronaldo? More like Klinsman. As the voting showed, He was nowhere near Shearer much Less O fenomeno.

Between 1995 and 1996 there was only one reoccurring name in the Balon D'or shortlist. Del Piero. And of all the candidates you mentioned only Del Piero had the goals and trophies to back it up

chic2pimp:
Eventhough Footy is not all about goals, Del Piero played a bit further upfront than Totti did.

I don't think there has ever been a tournament where Alex has outplayed Totti in an Azzuri jersey. It's either they were both rubbish or Totti played better. For instance, The Azzuris two best tourneys where both players participated was Euro 2000 and the World cup at 2006. Guess who the better player was during those 2 outings? Yup it was Totti!

When push came to shove and the coach was asked to pick between the two, it was always Alex warming the bench. That tells you a lot.

Lol Del Piero was a SS not an out and out 9. There is no excuse for Del Piero to be tripling his goals output

In Korea Japan Del Piero was the one that rescued Italy from disgrace when Totti was nowhere to be found.

Euro 2004 Totti was spitting on people up and down and his red card cost Italy a win against Denmark that ended up costing them

By 2006 Del Piero was waaaay past his prime anyway but still showed glimpses of what he could do. 60% of Totti's goal contribution came from set pieces not open play mind you

Roland17:
I am with chic2pimp on this one. The Golden Boy, II Capitano is not just any kind of Italian player, he is a religion with a cult following, almost an institution in Italy. Del Piero was never the best or most influential player on any of his team including the national team but that can not be said of The Golden Boy who played with lesser talents in contrast to Del Piero.

Ehn? Am I reading right! Why won't Totti be the best in a bare team like Roma? Normal big fish in small pond level

Del Piero from 95-98 was arguably Juventus's best player and a Balon D'or candidate. His competition was the likes of Ronaldo

How are you in Balon D'or conversation if your are not the best or most influential player on your team. I'm not understanding

chic2pimp:
For club most probably(His CL record is much better than Totti) however with regards to the Azzuri, No chance.

So how come Del Piero has scored more goals for the Azzuri than Totti?

Where was Totti in Korea Japan when Italy were headed for an embarrassing first round exit before Del P came to save the day.

I've never bought into the Totti hype. Even the Euro 2000 Finals you might want to bring that he won MOTM. Well they lost so that would be immaterial

Del Piero has scored more goals. 27 to 9 so on what grounds was Totti better for the Azzuri?

Ibime:
DelPiero was the better player but his peak was short-lived. He was finished by 1999. I think the cruciate injury compounded by his father's long term incurable illness finished him physically and mentally. DelPiero was the only player I saw go toe-to-toe with a peak Ronaldo. You were still in primary school then. Anything after 1998 is not representative of the real Del Piero.

Juve fans actually called him the Real Phenomenon. Prime Del Piero was no joke. He led Juve to 3 straight CL Finals

You can dispute the length of his peak but Totti never sniffed that 3 season peak.

Totti IMO was mad overrated