₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
And, commandment of Jesus first is obedient to Allah by worshipping him alone. Not calling human being God or son of God. That's crazy. Who believes that except zalimun.

They are confused. Isn't it obvious they are? If not, why call a mere mortal, who can't do nothing on his own, God? Why ascribe fatherhood to Allah SWT, who is beyond the need of flesh ?

Harkyn92:
Actually that's the difference between story book and revealed book.
Story book tries to narrate an event even when the writer is not there, while revealed book gives it exactly the way it was revealed.
Im looking for the day my Christian folks will wise up.

CHRISTIANITY, THE RELIGION OF THE FOOLS.

Do not be like them

Rashduct4luv:
Allah says:

"Their meat will not reach Allah, nor will their blood, but what reaches Him is piety from you. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and give good tidings to the doers of good." (Qur'an 22: 34-37)

Only the true God will speak with so much swagger and authority.

shadeyinka:
The Christian faith can be summarised by these
1. All human beings are sinner by nature
2. No human being can by his own righteousness meet the requirements of the righteousness of Heaven (God)
3. In spite of our weakness, God LOVES us so much to pay for us the price/cost of righteousness to make paradise through a perfect sacrifice.
4. The sacrifice is Jesus Christ who is the LAMB of God who takes away our sin
5. Each person who want to go to paradise would use his mouth and heart to receive the Free GIFT of God by ASKING!
6. Anyone who has received Gods gift is called Born Again. As in adopted into God's Family and is given the seal of sonship of God
7. Anyone who is born again is required to live in obedience to Gods rule of Righteousness AND to serve God with his gifts and abilities.

You will see that Islam REJECTS all these above.


And look at what the Bible says

Everything up there is drivel but No 7 and possibly No 5 (if made clearer)
You've all been throwing the word logical upanda. Is the No 1 not illogicality at its nadir?

shadeyinka:
Example:
Trinity of God

One of the biggest doctrinal misconceptions. Also God's fatherhood. Blimey!!

shadeyinka:
No Sir! I am honestly being sincere and you are the one using a double standard.

You started it, by insinuating that the Bible is simply a collection of texts by "some lying men'" whereas, the Qur'an was "given to you by the perfect Allah". This is a very serious aligation that needs to be scrutinized and verified.



I wanted to hear from you how Allah "gave you" the Qur'an to see how different from how the bible scriptures were "revealed".

Of a truth, even though by definition and ascribed attributes, Allah and Jehovah seem to be the same, BUT they are NOT the same Personalities. In other words Allah is not Jehovah and Jehovah is not Allah. The Question it brings up is : who then is the real Creator and Sustainer of the Universe?

The bolded above is the hard truth whether we like it or not! Or as a Muslim, do you think Allah is Jehovah?

If there are discrepancies between Allah's words and any known or unknown texts or even science I will stick to his words as the absolute truth. Allah knows all and does not make mistakes.
Yes some of the writers Bible might have lied, or, at least, exaggerated some of the stories a tad bit. This is also what I believe of our ahadith, which were also collected by mere mortals.
Everyone, including Christians, knows the story of the revelation of Qur'an but not everyone is mandated to believe it, provided they are not Muslims.
Allah is Jehovah, Jehovah is Allah. These are even synonymous terms in some dictionaries. Can you say Olohun/Olorun is different from God? The problem is with you Christians. You don't really understand the nature of God and that's why you have come up with all sorts of misconceptions about him leading to false worship.
Allah says: if you don't know me how can you worship me.

nutarious:
Mostly, Everybody would want to fight for their Faith. But, seriously, when your Faith can't be Verified by Witnesses then we can conclude on the Truthfulness of such faith.


The Question is really hard to answer for any Muslim, either answers will produce a problem that will affect Allah's Stand. I think instead of long debate here, muslim guys here should take a deep study more.


This is the major script that tries to nolify the Christian Faith and his source and statement is no proof enough.



Lastly, Muslim are taught of the genuity of the Quran, it's repeatedly said several that you almost believe it.

Over 6 Arabic language, different quotes, some even missing, no original manuscript. While it's easy to attack the Bible, the major problem I saw in the Quran has no remedy.

The write up is not intelligent, no order of arrangements, no direct witness according to history.

Lastly, if God waited 600 years to correct a mistake what kind of God is that, now you bring an Arab to solve a Jewish problem.

How can you talk about Jesus when you have already read the books of scripture available to you and In making your suppose correction you added no meaningful Insight order than statement low in value to the Script you call fake. How can an Allah make such mistakes that can easily be questioned as regard to a Conon.


One book has to be lieing and the other telling the truth.


If somebody from my tribe and clan brings a fact about my lineage, it's easy to listen and arque than someone totally from my clan.

How can Muhammad a non Jew correct an history he met and be correct, and the only witness is God.

I think this are logical questions to answer.

Logical this, logical that...(!), its getting all chokingly insipid here.
May be Shadeyinka should come and tell us the meanings of "logical" in all its forms, from etymological, philosophical, and grammatical standpoints. That's if you want to. LOL!!

malvisguy212:
so you know more than the translator of the hadith? what is sacrad to the pagan has become the symbol of Allah , I ask for explanation and you are insulting me ? or is it a bad thing to ask question ?



ooh sorry , I forgot, question is forbidden in Islam.

“O you who believe! Ask not about
things which, if made plain to you, may
cause you trouble.

I don't know what translator you're referring to but I believe you either misconstrued the translator or he never mentioned how the black stone came to be.
The supposed insult was to shatter your ego and destroy the phoney position of authority you've brazenly arrogated to yourself on islamic matters.

And no. It's not a bad thing to ask questions, but I don't know how to answer questions draped in insincerity and ridicule. So, pardon me for this shortcoming, mate.

shadeyinka:
Note:
Ratiocination is Logics and NOT Logic!

Ok

shadeyinka:
You said Allah gave you the Qur'an. Did Allah use heavenly ink and paper (I honestly want to see the book that was given) or paper made of leather or wood pulp?

C'mon, mate. You wanna deny Allah's miracles and omnipotence but believe in Yahweh's, which is exactly my grouse with you lot. You may question and censure Qur'anic verses all you want—honestly, it's no problem to me, however; let it be done with sincerity.

shadeyinka:
Clarify please:
Logic or Logics?

English major!

Ratiocination

shadeyinka:
You know I have not disputed what the Qur'an said. I have only brought out the implication of the simple question I asked.

If I got you correctly, your answer is that YOU DO NOT KNOW how Allah Removed Jesus Bodily from the Earth. No problem:

But the implication of Allah's action still stand:
There are just two possible answers to the Question.
1. Jesus was taken away in secret OR
2. Jesus was taken away in the presence of some Disciples

Unfortunately, either option is not feasible and contradicts either logics or the nature of Allah and either option is a serious INDICTMENT to Islam because neither of the two possible possibilities are defendable!

The best you can thus do is to maintain a NEUTRALITY from either what the almighty Allah did OR the statement of the Qur'an!

If Jesus wasn't taken to heaven in secret, then some of the Disciples must be aware AND if Jesus was taken to heaven in secret, then non of the disciples are aware. I think this is simple enough, even when you refuse to take a position, it doesn't absolve you of the implication of the problem.

The writers of the Bible, some of them might liers, but Allah who gave us the Quran is nothing but the personification of absolute truth. So I got no problem with his words, geddit?

shadeyinka:
If you understand a little English language, you'll understand what the expression in the quotation mark " " mean!

So you know English but can't get the proper meaning of logic. SMH

malvisguy212:
money driven pastor right? that's what I love to here. in few years to come Christianity will be involve in almost 70% of Nigeria employed youth , Christianity will put Nigeria in world map on a Good reason, look at cannan land (living faith) cannan land is like another country, 24 hour electricity and many more . do you know how many youth the church has taken of the street ? just like the book of Genesis say, we will have dominion over the Land, what TB Joshua has done to the poor, NONE of your imam can do it, only to benefit from the government.

I can be my life on it that Christianity will never trump the religion of Allah SWT in this country of ours. You don't even know that Christianity has already fallen tey tey, what you have now is a parody, a joke at best.

malvisguy212:
the simple question I ask is, how come what is sacred to the pagan has become the symbol of Allah ?

I will continue saying you be olodo, and you should not take it as an offence 'cos you really are. Shey na those your favoured pagans build the stone?

Empiree:
I knew. This is why I was reluctant in the beginning. Now that he has answer he's never satisfied. He lied that he wanted to convert to Islam at 200L but refused to because of his silly question and stupid behavior.

Evangelical CHRISTIANs lie a lot

I knew that, for sure. You don ever see me quote any verse from the Quran for these people. I see it as a sheer waste of time for most of these people are deaf, dumb, and blind.

shadeyinka:
Can you sincerely explain to my why You think that my statement was in ignorance?

The simple question I posted was:
When Allah took up Jesus to Himself, was in in secret or in the presence of at least one person.

Can't you see that Allah didn't leave a witness: the Qur'an says they follow a conjecture! It was Allah that caused them to ASSUME that it was Jesus that was Crucified and without any explanation!

Yes you have chosen to remain ignorant if not, why should you keep ignoring the already provided answers to your question.

shadeyinka:
I think you are the one IGNORING the truth!
FYI there is nothing to brag about.

If the truth is that Jesus wasn't killed, then you should be able to explain HOW?

If you can't explain how Jesus wasn't killed and you can't explain how Allah took him up to heaven (in the presence of the Disciples or in the presence of Nobody). Then, you probably have a lie you want to protect.

Jesus wasn't killed according to Allah SWT period. So if Allah did not explain how he took him up to himself I should go and protect abi?

Rashduct4luv:
Al-Bukhārī reports that ʿUmar – Allāh be pleased with him – came to the Black Stone (performing ṭawāf, circumambulation), kissed it, and said, “I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allāh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”


Please bring another lie!

malvisguy212:
do you know that Muhammad say touching of the black stone is the purification of sins ?

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959:
The Messenger of Allah (peace
and blessings of Allah be upon
him) says: “Touching them both
(the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-
Yamani) is an expiation for
sins.”

is this not an act of worship ?


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number
23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman:
I asked Anas bin Malik about
Safa and Marwa (i.e. two
mountains at Mecca). Anas
replied, “We used to consider
( i.e. going around ) them a
custom of the Pre-Islamic period
of Ignorance, so when Islam
came, we gave up going around
them . Then Allah revealed,
‘Verily, Safa and Marwa ( i.e. two
mountains at Mecca) are among
the Symbols of Allah. So it is not
harmful of those who perform
the Hajj of the House of Allah or
perform the Umra to ambulate
(Tawaf) between them.’” (Surah
2:158)

how come what is sacrad to the pagan become the symbol of Allah ?

Why are you shifting goalpost again? Abi you no see the emboldened? At least now, you should see why I called you people olodo rapata

Rashduct4luv:
Al-Bukhārī reports that ʿUmar – Allāh be pleased with him – came to the Black Stone (performing ṭawāf, circumambulation), kissed it, and said, “I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allāh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”

Al-Bukhārī, Al-Ṣaḥīḥ, Chapter on what has been said about the Black Stone.

Points to note

· The illustrious Companion and Caliph ʿUmar reminded us in this narration of the pure belief that benefit and harm are not caused by created objects and thus should not be sought from them. Only Allāh has control over these things.

· We are reminded that acts of worship are taken from Allāh’s Messenger, and a person is not supposed to make up his own way of worship, he must follow the manner of worship that the Prophet taught and practiced.

· We also learn that once an action is confirmed in the Sunnah, the believer submits and complies and practices it because it is confirmed that Allāh’s Messenger did it, even if we don’t know the wisdom behind it.

· This narration is also an example of how a responsible person tries to clarify and do away with any misunderstandings that people may have about matters of faith. The people had recently left their unbelief and polytheism, so ʿUmar wanted to make it clear that kissing the Black Stone is by no means done as an act of devotion to it, as people used to do with their stone idols.

Adapted from Ibn Ḥajr, Fatḥ Al-Bārī, and other ḥadīth commentaries.

Please bring another lie!

Dem no go see the emboldened in their own Bukhari.

shadeyinka:
If their Allah can decieve Mary, the Apostles and the other Disciples of Jesus; you wonder if Allah deception of the Muslims have not been a total success!

It still baffles me how you deliberately choose to walk in ignorance. Aah!!

sagenaija:
Let's see who the olodo is. Answer this question: where did I infer ANY of the things you wrote up there? Show me. Or you'll again expose yourself as the dumb one.

If you actually knew you and your lot would not be here shamelessly asking ridiculous questions in the guise of vetting Allah's words. Awon olodo rapata

shadeyinka:
You can't answer the question simply because it reveals the "illogicality" of your position.

You've been banding around the words illogicality, logic... And you still don't know what they mean . I pity you gan, Bros.

malvisguy212:
so Allah waited 600years before sending Muhammad to correct their misconception ? Those who died Prior to the coming of muhammed to clear this out , who's gonna take the blame for their unbelief ? Allah for tricking the Jews or satan ?

The main problem you Christians have got is you actually do but know God. I doubt if there's a statement like "if you don't know me how I can you worship me". May be the biblical documentation passed to you is inadequate, or your money-driven pastors are riding like animals

sagenaija:
You're right.
None of these guys has answered any question on topic.

And interestingly after a few pages they'll claim "we have refuted you!" Or "your question has been answered way back, check"

Islam makes them not to think logically. That's one way Allah has succeeded with them. That is why they would rather choose a caravan raider, pedophile, muderer, wife snatched and psychopath over a sinless, righteous and benevolent one.

That is why the worst of sin in the life of their prophet is ok. His moral standards is no big deal. After all, he is a prophet. Thats all that matters. Allah even made sure the moral standards he required for Mohamed is lower than that for the ordinary Moslem. What an irony!

The prophet is always right. Some of them will even claim he never had any sin until you point to them portions calling for the forgiveness if his sins.

You'll be bedridden with hate and die a hater. It's this kind of silly disposition from you and your maladjusted brain that will make you die a hate-filled, contempt-ridden ignoramus.

shadeyinka:
There are some "I don't know" that is sincerely NOT evasive and there are some "I don't know" that are EVASIVE!

Yours is a case of evasive answer: and the reason is simple.
There are just two possible answers to the Question.
1. Jesus was taken away in secret OR
2. Jesus was taken away in the presence of some Disciples

Unfortunately, either option is a serious INDICTMENT to Islam because neither of the two possible possibilities are defendable!

The best you can thus do is to maintain a NEUTRALITY from either what the almighty Allah did OR the statement of the Qur'an!

You have also seen the problems created by your fellow traditional Muslims who have attempted to clarify the event but ends up committing theological goofs!

Your position is understandable, it's the way any intelligent person would react.

But then, the Question is do we accept a scripture as valid just because we are told "it is scripture"?

There is no real bases to accept the Qur'ans version over that of the Bible UNLESS we are willing to ask the Critical Questions.

Come to think of it, how does one determine that a particular currency is FAKE!?

You see your life . You're still bragging over trivialities. You aren't looking for the truth but what you wanna here

sagenaija:
And the mysterious way is to deceive his creatures. And you guys see that as Morally right.

So when Allah SWT said they killed him not but were only making conjectures, he was referring to the disciples abi? All of you be olodo

Empiree:
he's really dumb

I taya for this people

shadeyinka:
Answer the simple Question and stop ranting aimlessly about the BUSH!

I think you have comprehension problem or malaise of cynicism. Empiree has answered the irrelevant question over and over. Even Rashduct4luv or someone else did, which was even direct, but you prefer to play dumb. O ya continue

Empiree:
I knew op was gonna say Jesus was taken up in the presence of "apostle". This is so important to him but he doesn't realize it is far less important to us whether Jesus was taken to heaven in secret or in the presence of others. It is a very ridiculous question to the point of ridiculing Muslims over non issue. Now he said John was present at the time of ascension.

Abeg, how is that important to us?. If John was present, it means he saw it all. How come your Gospels contradicted one another on the issue if apostle John was present?. Op doesn't understand that I tried to save his shame not to expose Bible contradictions on ascension and crucifixion. It is crazy how these guys think.

If how Jesus was taken up was so important we would have had it documented in the Qur'an but it is not. And because of this he refused to take shahadah at 200L in college. This is very ridiculous excuse.

It is like saying "I want to know how fish swallowed Jonah.... If no one can tell me how I will reject CHRISTIANITY". Does this makes sense?

What did you expect from a religious group who made central the death of a man, although blessed, in their faith.
The atheists on here have repeatedly asked them to prove logically how Jonah could have survived in the belly of a fish for days and we're still waiting for their logical answer.

haryomikun:
Omo e get one shuffle wey Ali dey do with him legs. The first time i tried it, I fell down

Lmao!! I even read somewhere that Bruce Lee learned a great deal from Ali's footwork

IMAliyu:
First off I would like to know the biblical accounts of Jesus's crusifixtion.
A link or reference would do.
But a simple explanation is we(Muslims) believe in the Qur'an and site it our reference (which you guys don't accept or believe in) and you(Christians) believe in the Bible and site it as your reference (which we believe in, but don't think of it as accurate or untempered). With this fact.
This discussion is going to go nowhere and achieve nothing. This is a subject we will never agree upon and will never change the minds of the other on.
But who says we can't have an aimless discussion.

Hmm.