₦airaland Forum

To Mospheus24, As a Northern Sudanese i am dispointed that you actually concur with the rhetoric that mace stated. If you want to learn more about Northern Sudanese, just go to a sudannes forum, and we will answer your questions, instead of a alien from from another country that hardly studied the history of the region and relying on google for information. Northern Sudanese is hardly mix with Arabs. What have occured was the arabization of the people. Ask yourself a question how could a few soldiers change the the racial composition of the whole land, that is nearly impossible, since sudan became islamize during the 15th century. Only people that are so called truly arabs is the Rashida ethnic group that came to both sudan and eritrea later during the 19th century. Here is a trend created by a very knowledgable and educated dinka from south sudan, who very well will testify the non arabness of practically all northern sudan. He also mentioned that nubians in during early pharaonic times were always a diverse group, but separated by tribes, and languages as well.

here is the sudanese forum, hopefully i see you their.
http://www.sudanforum.net/showthread.php?t=59166

This is what the CIA did to my country and produced disasterous results.

CIA training Sudan's spies as Obama officials fight over policy
American officials may be at odds over U.S. policy toward Sudan, but the CIA is soldiering on there.

The East African regime is not just an international pariah for its genocidal track record in the western region of Darfur, it’s officially been branded by Washington as a terrorist state, in part for its past harboring of Islamist radicals, including Osama bin Laden in the 1990s.



Despite that, the CIA is continuing to train and equip Sudan’s intelligence service in the name of fighting terrorism.

The irony is not lost on critics of the arrangement.


“The U.S. government is training the Sudanese intelligence services and conducting bilateral operations with them -- all in the name of the long war,” said a former intelligence officer who served in Sudan.

“We also refer to the Sudanese as a state sponsor of terror, have called their activities in Darfur genocide, and supported the issuance of arrest warrants for the Sudanese president for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, as defined by the International Criminal Court.”

“Certainly," the former intelligence officer added, "the CIA is providing training to the National Intelligence and Security Service,” known as the NISS. “I suspect it was begun … in the very early days after September 11.”

Others say it began in the 1990s.

In the beginning, the CIA-NISS relationship was very close-hold, he said, even shielded from other CIA personnel in the embassy because of concerns over Sudan’s grievous human rights record. Training sessions were probably done outside the country, he guessed.

“There has also been transfers of equipment” to the NISS, he said, “computers, etcetera.”

Another knowledgeable former U.S. intelligence official said the CIA-NISS partnership began even earlier, in the Clinton administration, and called it "incredibly valuable."

"We have a had a long term relationship with the Sudanese, even when they closed the embassy for a short period in the late 90s," the official said on condition of anonymity because the topic is so sensitive.

"We do not do much training with the Sudanese, except in the field of counterterrorism, and they have been an exceptional partner in helping us against the terrorist target."

The CIA's curriculum with the NISS "is pretty much the same as regular humint/CO [human intelligence/case officer] training, with a focus on targeting the terrorist, i.e., setting up meetings in secure places with surveillance and countersurveillance, knowing what info to look for, keeping all pocket litter, not allowing them to erase cell phones or computers," the former official said. "It also involves 'take downs' of terrorists or their organizations , "

In 2005, Bush administration CIA director Porter Goss nurtured the connection.

“The CIA flew Salah Gosh, head of the NISS, here to the U.S. in one of their jets during 2005,” the former intelligence officer who served in Sudan said. "He is up to his butt in the genocide in Darfur."

Only last month, Amnesty International charged that "the Sudanese National Intelligence and Security Service (NISS) is carrying out a brutal campaign of killings, torture, arbitrary detentions, and mental and physical intimidation against opponents and critics of the government."

"The NISS uses a variety of torture methods," it added, "including: beating detainees while held upside down against a wall, electric shocks, whipping, sleep deprivation, kicking and stamping on detainees and beating them with water pipes."

CIA spokesman George Little declined to comment on the agency's relationship with the NISS, saying, “This agency does not, as a rule, comment on reports of relationships with foreign intelligence services.”

Likewise at the White House, National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer said, "We are not going to speak about our ongoing counter-terrorism and intelligence programs with any specific country other than to say that we face significant terrorism related challenges in East Africa, and it is essential that we be able to work in partnership with the countries of the region to identify and disrupt potential terrorist networks."

Some U.S. officials with intimate knowledge of the CIA's program contend that the spy agency's relationship with the NISS actually fosters human rights.

"The intelligence channel has been one tool our government has used to try to influence the Sudanese in terms of human rights and the rule of law,” said one such official. “That was a deliberate policy decision, made with inter-agency support, and—while everyone has their eyes wide open to everything that still needs to happen—the dialogue has had its benefits."

Another, a senior administration official, said, "We're not blind" to the reality of Sudan. "Everybody understands what's going on there."

"If the Sudanese go outside the box," he maintained, "we can pull the plug."

Such explanations evoke the darkest days of the Cold War, when successive U.S. administrations used the same rationales for allowing the CIA to have close relations with the security services of some of the world’s worst human rights violators, from South Africa to Argentina, Guatemala and Chile, saying they were necessary for the shadowy fight against Soviet-backed communism.

And as during that time, Obama administration officials have barely concealed their sharp differences over what to do about Sudan.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/08/cia_training_sudans_spies_as_o.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30ZnD5jTgU

This is the last time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30ZnD5jTgU

Again, here is short video of the museum of Khartoum

Well, it did not work. This is not the sudanese forum
Here is a bbc report of Sudan Museum, however the Report is actually Sudanese Herself Zainab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/V30ZnD5jTgU

[flashhttp://www.youtube.com/user/nubianking2020?feature=mhum][/flash]

[flashhttp://www.youtube.com/user/nubianking2020?feature=mhum=200,200][/flash]

Sorry: This form of script is called Old Nubian, it was created during the nubian christian period, before the islamization of Northern Sudan.

Lastly Temple of Na ga, again sub saharan Africa.
and there is many more ruins pyramids and temple throughout this particular area.
The point is race nor skin color does have anything to do with intelligence, arguing about such matter is pointless
And most of these monuments were created way before Roman became establish as a state.
Again all in sub saharan Africa

ruins of the temple soleb
again sub saharan africa

Jebal barkal Temple Sudan

El kurru tomb Sudan

Monuments is sub saharan africa mainly northern and central sudan. Many over 3000 years, again way before arab influence.




Nuri pyramids Sudan

Writing during the christian period, mind you this was created by sub saharan africans.

Meriotic nubian script way before the arabian influence, during this period arabs did not have a writing script.

El Kurru tomb hieroglypic writing Northern sudan

To: Chinenyen

I disagree with your assertion in reference to the people that resided in sub sahara areas developed their form of script from outside sources. Why do i say this? People have a tendency to forget that Northern Sudan was a major player in the ancient world. In fact many of Pharaonic Egypt rulers were actually from the northern sudan region. So did we get our early writing system from outside sources, nope. During the Pharaonic period both egyptians, and what is now northern sudanese utilize the same form of writing, however during the greek period northern sudanese later used a system of writing called meroitc, which scholars have not descipher yet. After the meriotic period, Northern sudanese became christian, and they ulitize both coptic, meriotic and greek letters, which became Old nubian, and after the christian period arabic became the language of the land due to religion. Here are a few samples of ancient Northern Sudan form of writing.

Cap28

You are absolutely ignorant, and definitely whitewashed. I suggest you stick to your own problems in your own country such as providing electricity instead of worrying another country that does not have any relations with you. In other words, the nile valley countries is non of your business.

Cap28, have you ever visit Sudan before? If you have not i suggest you close your month with your rhethoric, Thank You. Also, it is most likely the South will separate and form their own country, and i will wish them well on their endeavers.

Redsun, How typically western of you, It is like me saying that crime in Nigeria is out of control or every nigerian is a thief or do 419, because that is how the western media protray nigerians, as being a nation of thiefs and crooks, which is further from the truth. Your last comment it is a African thing! Are we in different or separate continents? Redsun. Last time i checked Sudan is on the continent of Africa. I don't get your last statement.

tkb417

However, to be honest with you tkb417, I don't know of any especially Northern Sudanese going to Nigeria, Most Sudanese if they leave Sudan usually go to Egypt or the Arab Gulf countries. This is what i notice. Egypt because it is near and a visa is not required for Sudanese citizens.

Sometimes Redsun you must visit a place before you judge, by watching the bbc do you actual think you are going to get the full facts.

We all know that Sudan had a great ancient history but we are talking about pitiful sudan of today.We can't continue to live in the past,while our present and future is in ruin.


Since I am Northern Sudanese I can speak on it, Yes we do have problems like many African Countries, especially what going on in the Darfur Region, however do you thinke it is the entire Country, and the situation in darfur have abated a great deal since the conflict began. However, the irony of it all is Sudan had the fastest growing economy in Africa despite the Darfur conflict, and the country is developing pretty fast, due to the oil revenue in the South.

Pharaonic dealth mask from the National Museum in Khartoum Sudan.

sudanese faces

sudanese faces

sudanese faces