₦airaland Forum

RedPanthar:
Go back and read the tone with which we were interacting to how it was after the change

You know the truth bro

I like Dangote because we are finally getting an oil refinery in Nigeria. Above anything, I want to see the black race industrialize and become self-sufficient. And right now, Dangote is the only one taking us in that direction, that's why I support him.

At the end of the day, Igbo, Yoruba or Fulani we are black first.

RedPanthar:
BTW your energy has turned from the objective rational intellectual to the pro yoruba/fulani alliance discussionist


I'm not even igbo. So don't bother throwing that energy at me no need blowing anti-hero energy towards me. E nor dey touch me one single bit

It's only a matter of time. Some of us dey the pipeline dey work things out. We will shock some pipu

haha, read my thread here before you accuse me of being pro Fulani/Yoruba alliance. I just want to see more manufacturing.

https://www.nairaland.com/6290249/southerner-im-ready-give-north

RedPanthar:
On the contrary. I don't discuss Dangote cause I've never seen him as the right model.


Are you aware for 30 years Dangote is always working in tandem with the presidency?


Abeg leave Dangote, BUa, santana bring up other Northern business brands that alienated itself. From the political processes of white washing money and let's have a discussion then

How can we leave Dangote? No one is Nigeria is doing anything in value-added manufacturing aside from Dangote and BUA. Unless you want to talk about foreign companies like OLAM.

RedPanthar:
You said it not me. Dangote remains the product of an unfair Obasanjo creation. Simple and plain


As of when Dangote was handled the monopoly some of us were shouting, the same way I am still shouting that too large of the markets volume is allocated to him to produce. All of this matters in the right economy.

Dangote produces cement at a 60% EBITDA profit margin, which is unheard of in a free market ( cement should be 5% -- 15%). What is stopping other competitors like Ibeto from going into production and undercutting his price? NOTHING but their own stupidity and laziness.

Also, note that Ibeto doesn't have forex challenges. If he did, he wouldn't be able to import on such a mass scale.

RedPanthar:
You said it not me. Dangote remains the product of an unfair Obasanjo creation. Simple and plain

Did anything stop Ibeto or anyone else from also giving money to Obasanjo for special concessions? At least Dangote can produce at a large industrial scale, which puts him above 99% of blacks who would rather fight for an import license or just loot their government.

RedPanthar:
Dangote was given. Very unfair advantage by Obasanjo


Obasanjo was sponsored in his second term by Dangote to the tune of 200 Million quids. It's in history bro. Obasanjo rewarded him with the monopoly of three commodities. Dangote

Yes, but it was not an ethnic north/south thing. Dangote knows how to give money to the right people. Everyone gets money from Dangote -- this i know first hand.

nku5:
For almost two decades (since Obasanjo) the entire Nigerian policy framework has been tailored around Dangote's business. It's also not a secret that his business is the arrow-head of northern business interests.

If Innoson or Ibeto had that type of monstrous backup from FG and region they would take over the African market. Rather there've been deliberate policy shifts to slow them down.

But doesn't Ibeto produce cement at the Nkalagu plant?

Dangote was sponsored by Obasanjo who is not a Northerner. In fact, if you look at Dangote's investment pattern, you will see that he is a fully committed Lagosian and doesn't care much for his origin in Kano. Almost all his core investments are in the South West. He even decided to move his refinery to Lekki -- 300 miles away from any oil or gas source. If that is not a real lagosian, who is?

Even a core Northerner like Rabiu knew to make is refinery near the gas in Akwa Ibom. Dangote brought his to Lagos to please his sponsors

nku5:
For almost two decades (since Obasanjo) the entire Nigerian policy framework tweaked to favour his business. It's also not a secret that his business is the arrow-head of northern business interests. If Innoson or Ibeto had that type of monstrous backup they would take over the African market. Rather there've been deliberate policy shifts to slow them down.

But doesn't Ibeto produce cement at the Nkalagu plant?

Ibeto is not serious. He has been "planning" to build a cement factory for over five years with zero progress. His business model is to import bulk cement and then bag it under the label " Ibeto Cement" it's pathetic. Can we really blame the Federal Government for that?

The plant in Nkalagu is Nigercem, which I believe is moribund state-owned business.

Christistruth00:
Dangote is Hausa

Can anyone from the North confirm or deny this? I'm under the impression that both Dangote and Rabiu are Fulani.

XANDERO85:
Quit your lame arguments! Dangote is the richest man in Africa, as you put it, primarily because of the backing he got (both overt and covert) from the federal gov’t....monopoly being just a part of it!

Do you know the bribes that Dangote has paid to get to where he is now? And as much as I hate the North, I'm not convinced that Dangote's success is because he is Fulani. Nigeria is a pay to play system. No one is stopping Igbo businessmen from greasing the right palms in Nigeria.

There is no country where Dangote operates where he isn't engaged in mass bribery. There is nothing wrong with it. That's how business is done in Africa.

Christistruth00:
If you look at Land Wealth the Royal Families are the Wealthiest. Imagine a single family owning all the Land in Victoria Island another Family Owns all the Land in Ikoyi Lagos.

Which family is that?

Conrod:
Chief economist,tell us why a lot of manufacturing companies including michelin have left nigeria.

Michelin left Nigeria because Igbos flooded the market with imported second-hand tires from the U.S. and Europe. New tires can never compete with used retreaded nonsense that sells for 1/10th the price. Nigerian customers don't value quality.

RedPanthar:
There's nothing about cheap labor to the extent of causing other nation to not develop. Even the steel. Mills in Warri can produce iron for local markets consumption. Black people have mental laziness. Period

Your commentary is spot on. Blacks are stagnant people.

Read here about the Chinese manufacturers coming to Nigeria to produce:

https://www.ft.com/content/9f5736d8-14e1-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e

cktheluckyman:
2015

The list is updated every year. There are no Igbos, as of 2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_billionaires

.

ChoCho54:
Apart from not knowing about the politics that trailed cement production, you also don't know the politics that trails forex in CBN. Sorry.

Stop making excuses. When the Chinese manufacturers in Lagos needed forex, they will sell something like timber or gold to counterparties in China to get the currency they need for production. If you really want to produce, nothing can stop you.

With that being said, if the federal government is playing ethnic politics with forex, that is grounds for war.

cktheluckyman:
This is page 2 and how come no one addressed this fallacy? is Orji Uzor Kalu not a Billionaire in US dollars which I assume is what you are referring to

https://www.forbes.com/profile/orji-uzor-kalu/?sh=2c503fd42e44

Forbes gives him $330 million.

RedPanthar:
Lol. You think?


I have 70,000 pages researched documents on productivity on variety of things. Nigeria isn't China's mate I dare to say. China's primitiveness far outclasses whatever Nigeria is capable off for now


More than Half of the tokunbo of machine imports of Nigeria machine markets is from Asia. This are the people you say we're better than. If Chinese technol isn't backing Dangote up, Dangote go fold up. I swear down. He can never afford Western produced trucks and remain in comfortable play

Chinese agriculture is primitive compared to the west. Europe can average 400 tons per hectare in tomatoes, China can get maybe 40 while we get 4.

RedPanthar:
Lol. You try but nah. As average as Chinese tech is you can't beat it using crude Nigerian method. Example. I bought a Chinese equipment that will take 10 Laborers 2 months to do. With the equipment and just one person I can have it done in 6 weeks.


If it's tech for productive advantage, abeg China isn't Nigerians mate abeg you. Nor be hoe una dey take dig yams.?


Should I show you videos of Chinese fabricated equipments that can uproot and harvest 100,000 yams perfectly?

The majority of Chinese farms are still very primitive. They are a major food importer.

RedPanthar:
Story for the gods. Lies



Forex can be gotten even if one needs 1 Billion dollars. The issue is the price the aboki in the north gets it is different from the man from the south. Hedge the cost of forex surplus against post-production products and do what needs to be done. Simple

Are you saying the Abokis have access to dollars at the CBN rate? If that is the case, it's time for civil war 2 in Nigeria.

BastardWike:
Do you know how difficult it is to run a production firm in Nigeria? Dangote would get as much forex as he needs the very minute he needs it, it's just a phone call away! Yet he tried his hands in running tomato paste production facility and it closed down before he even started!

Dangote is not a super businessman and neither is he doing anything extraordinary. The North is using Dangote to corner a chunk of Nigeria's economy and that is why the government will always go out of its way to support them.

If you can't source forex from CBN to import raw materials and equipment, how would you be able to stay in business? Or you expect them to source from roadside abo.ki, then who would touch their finished goods that would end up three times the price of a Chinese imported equivalent?

You are making some good points here. Nigeria's multiple exchange rate policy is criminal. Buhari is dooming this country.

Igbochief001:
You are an economist and u think importing created poverty ?

Lmao

First it depends on what u import , biafra would allow complete important of raw materials and smooth export of goods we have comparative advantage of

Rice should not be more than 12k ...but today I are buying it's 40k

Igbos are not scared of global producers ...not at all to no protection policy would be in place at least not like Nigeria

I support the Federal Government's import substitution policy 100%. Importing products that can be produced in Nigeria is creating poverty. We have the same climate as brazil and India, so why should be buying rice from them instead of growing it ourselves? It's brainless.

Rice is not a raw material -- it is a finished good.

The Federal government is not stopping Ibeto from manufacturing cement, he simply doesn't want to do it because importing is easier. No Igbo business man is participating in Nigeria's sugar master plan either. So next sugar will be monopolized by Fulani. 20 years from now Fulani will control every industry in Nigeria.

Igbochief001:
Yes igbo man likes to do his things alone and not involve politics

Nigeria is the only country where it's easy to import finished products that raw materials

The only country where it's far easier to import that export ...

This are the main things fueling the Biafra dream

What will be different in Biafra? Importing brings poverty, unemployment, and failure. A nation of importers will never grow. Over-investing in real estate makes the problem even worse because it drives up the cost of living, which drives up the cost of labor, which drives up the cost of production.

BastardWike:
I have already explained the reason why Igbos as capitalists would rather import than produce when it is far more profitable to do the former.

Buying lands is never a brainless thing to do, that's coming from a position of ignorance. In today's Nigeria, buying lands as a way of hedging funds is arguebly the most profitable and guaranteed way of keeping your money above inflation.

Go and ask those billionaires that kept their money in banks or invested in some areas only to have their fingers burnt. However, lands never depreciate but keeps appreciating against inflationary pressures.

If the Igbo's only business strategy is to brainlessly import and plough funds into real estate, they will stagnate Nigeria. What if Dangote thought the way you are thinking? Would he be the richest man in Africa?

Importation is just fast money and land is just lazy money. Real wealth comes from value-added manufacturing.

BastardWike:
Wow, you just said exactly what I stated. That example you gave is a perfect one. Erisco kept lamenting about his inability to get forex from CBN and warned it was putting his investments and workers at risk. Yet he was ignored and he even threatened to close his factory and relocate it to China and he was still ignored! Now, Erisco were to be Dangote or just a random fulani man, would he have suffered that fate?

Also, the economy of Nigeria favours importation more than production, and any capitalist will always do what will make him to maximize profits. You build your factory in Nigeria, generate your own power with deisel generators that will push your over head skywards among other debilitating factors when in contrast, you can simply take a flight to China, meet producers there, give them your prototype to produce or just make orders from what they already have in stock and place your logo on it, bring them to Nigeria and make cool profits while your counterpart who built his factory in Nigeria will be struggling to cover his expenses talk more of profit.

However, that's not to say that Igbos aren't into manufacturing, they still have the highest numbers of local manufacturers in Nigeria. But they would have embraced manufacturing far more if Nigeria is conducive for them.

What does a tomato paste factory desperately need FOREX for? If ERISCO was a serious company, he would be sourcing his raw materials in Nigeria to avoid that problem or do like Dangote is doing and vertically integrate by cultivating his own tomato farm.

ERISCO was not serious. He wanted that FOREX to continue brainless importation.

BastardWike:
In addition, the civil war wiped out the economy of the Igbos. People like Odumegwu Ojukwu Snr, the Mbanefos etc. lost their wealth among all other Igbos. Every one had to begin afresh while other Nigerians retained their wealth. What happened to Igbos was devastating and would take any other ethnic group forever to recover from but we have been able to close the gap and even get ahead in some areas, maybe that's why people rarely acknowledge the extent of what we passed through.

That is not entirely true. Igbos don't lack wealth or capital. The problem is that most wealthy Igbo tend to brainlessly amass land instead of using their capital for production. This, I believe, is a major reason why the SE is underdeveloped.

If you want to look at land wealth in Nigeria, Igbos are probably the wealthiest in Nigeria. The capital is simply being misallocated to non-productive investments.

Many Igbos will make the excuse that the Federal Government is favoring Northerners, but I don't think this is the case. Nigeria is a pay to play system, and if you grease the right palms, doors will open for you. Also, the government will naturally favor a company that is in line with its import substitution policy over a company that is brainlessly importing and draining FOREX.

It is very alarming that, among the Nigerian billionaires, none are Igbo. 2 Fulani, and 3 Yoruba. Real wealth comes from value creation, not hustling and petty trading

rossniti:
There's a lot of manufacturing going on in the Eastern industrial heartlands of Onitsha, Nnewi, Awka, and Aba. There are factories everywhere there manufacturing all types of products.

That's true. I've seen it. But, there are very few Igbo businessmen manufacturing on an industrial scale like Dangote and BUA Group are doing.

Raydos:
Even the so-called Abuja that was planned, didn't have a drainage system!!

Like WTF??

Don't make me weep today. Our country is a joke. It's like we can't do anything right no matter how much money we throw at it. And if you talk to most Nigerians, they will say Abuja, Lekki, and Ikoyi are second to heaven. Those areas are just slums.

Raydos:
Have you seen the prototype of the Corporate towers By Chagoury group to be built in Eko Atlantic??

That will be the most aesthetically beautiful tower in Lagos when completed, The construction hasn't started though!!

Infact in all Nigeria, Eko Atlantic is the only thing that make proud and happy as a Nigeria, I have been to Lekki, Ikoyi, Banana Island, But I am not impressed because most of these places don't even have common drainage systems and good sidewalks

But I was so surprised that Eko Atlantic has all that!!

When Eko Atlantic is Finished, I bet it will be compete with any city with what I saw!!

I agree, Lekki, Ikoyi, and Banana Island are all worthless and poorly planed to me. Eko Atlantic is the only thing that compares to the quality I'm used to the United States.

Post a pic of the Chagoury prototype pls.

Igbos are known to have a very business-oriented culture, but it seems to focus on petty trading and hustling instead of value-added manufacturing. Take for example Ibeto cement. While his peers Dangote and Rabiu (BUA Group) graduated from importing into manufacturing, Ibeto continues to cling to the old business model of mass importation which drains the nation's FOREX reserves and creates poverty and unemployment.

I don't want to hear excuses today. It is very alarming that, among the Nigerian billionaires, none are Igbo. 2 Fulani, and 3 Yoruba.