₦airaland Forum

@adconline,

Believe whatever you want to believe but thinking that something is right doesn't necessarily make it right.

Thanks for your time.

buluti:
Thank you.

Congratulations on accepting a result you call "doctored".

So Kano results were doctored, i didnt know that was what you've been trying to tell us all this while in a steady and consistent way.

I am happy you can't say the same for me, i don't want to be associated with such consistent statements.

Thanx.

It seems this is just a case of someone being incapable of critically looking at issues.

Accepting the results as totally correct or totally wrong does not make sense unless for people that think like you which does not come as a surprise though.

The statement you highlighted above clearly shows that you no know shame when desperately trying to make a point. Keep fooling yourself while imagining you are on top what you are discussing.

@Buluti,

The census result may not be entirely correct as in being exact as I have heard from people that claimed that they were never counted.

My arguement has been based on the fact that people believe they should disregard the census result in favour of comments like "Kano is a desert", "Satellite picture shows this", "everybody knows that the census result was doctored" etc.

In the absence of an credible alternative result I will rather accept the census result than disregard it based on the reasons people have been giving.

I have taken time to write the few lines above to make it clear that your cheap but shameless diversion won't work here.

I am sure that from the very first post to the last my position on this thread has been steady and consistent. I wish I could say the same thing about you.

@Donzman,

Thanks for pointing out the mistakes in adconline's position.

@adconline,

All the money that Nigeria ever owed could have been easily settled from money (from say 4-10 Nigerias) stashed away in foreign vaults.

Now, if less than 10 can afford to offset all the debts of a country does such a country qualify to be forgiven for its debts?

Corruption and misappropriation is our problem. I don't know if you are discussing the standard of living (in which case I will agree with you that we are poor) or if you are discussing cash/money releaized from sale of oil (in which case we are a rich nation).

As regards the bank, comparing its capability to being able to buy our oil is a big insult on Nigeria.

Enjoy!

buluti:
@ Afam, its time YOU take it easy too, you are becoming obsessed like Nigeria1. The results have been presented and approved abi, all has been said,

@Buluti,

I am sure if I agreed with you that the results were forged even when we don't have credible proof then you won't accuse me of being obsessed.

I live in Lagos and had believed all along that Lagos had more than 15 million people based on information that the media carried. That a census stated otherwise is not enough reason to discard it even when the Lagos state govenment had an excellent opportunity to rbbish the census results.

Thanks for the advice but unlike you I cannot stake even N1 for the census result but I will not disagree with it based on the vague arguements put forward by some people on this forum.

Put differently, while the census results may not be entirely correct, I have not seen any meaningful reason why it should be discarded especially when no altenative is available.

nigeria1:
I assume you live in Nigeria, My brother Oyigbo dey enjoy, It is the right of every american to own a home and car, it is only when the person think otherwise, I know suffering for Nigeria don master you, you know fit believe,
You do not need colateral security to borrow money, My son can buy a house of $250,000 without one and every Nigerian should have this right, That is why i am fighting Mr Makama, this thing depend on census data. My brother give me your GSM number trhru pm and I would give you google number and you ask them that question your self, Oyigbo no dey do 419 like mr makama, if you figure figure, na jail direct, If Atiku dey here , all the talk of $110million, and he get time to dey call Obasanjo names, na inside jail, he go dey do that one,

You seem disorganised upstairs. My location is clearly stated and you are assuming I live in Nigeria.

Believe me, if you are given 2 hrs to present your case to any gathering you will only succeed in wasting people's time.

Give you this give you that, based on how you analyse and present issues it will be suicidal for anyone to trust you with any meaningful task.

Well, since the census result has been recieved and probably approved you can rest or reconsider your citizenship as you threatened before unless it was another empty threat.

Sahara reporters will end up being a place for junk jounalism if they continue with the present style.

Tomorrow now they will claim that the FG has ordered their server to be brought down, seeking cheap publicity.

Christino:
@ Afam,

So an estimate is disgusting? Please tell me what's disgusting in it, especially when it's widely believed to be true?

What is disgusting is that you are more inclined to believe what an american journalist said about the population of Lagos being between 16 million and 22 million.

Is there any problem with people making a case against this census results apart from the usual "everybody knows", "Kano is a desert stuff"?

Till today, the best opportunity to rubbish the census result is for Lagos state to make public its own calculation/results since it conducted a parallel one but strangely enough some people here accept the explanation that Lagos cannot release the result due to unconstitutionality but will do so when the break down is released and yet is still rejecting the result.

What manner of people are we?

Christino:
American journalists put lagos' population between 15 million and 22 million and our honorable presido handed 9 million in the name of "HISTORY".

American journalists? Can you hear yourself? This is disgusting to say the least.

nigeria1:
Some years ago i moved from one city to another, do you know the postal service did not send my letters to the old address, they knew where i was, Accurate data,

Hmm, try comot small money from this one now!!! I will be surprised if the postal service actually sent your letters to your new address without you telling the people writing the new address. The job of the postal service is to deliver letters based on the addresses.

On the census stuff, I am sorry to say but your analysis and over reliance on google maps are actually making the authenticity suspect.

Tell google to tell you where they got the images they told you were taken in 2006.

Consensus ke? I believe he should do what makes the most sense for him bearing in mind that the consequences of any decision he may take wil be borne by him alone.

If he is lucky to get a developer that can do the job, the better for him as he will have greater control and flexibility.

In the absence of a good developer he should look for a ready made solution and still look for someone to help tweak or customize the software.

@Terracotta,

Honestly, the problems in Nigeria are caused by the so called educated ones that shamelessly twist very cear issues and end up going round the bend.

@Buluti.

I always acknowedge my mistakes when I make them not when someone (wrongly) thinks that I have made mistakes.

My post was to question why Iweala should be praised for doing so well as the finance minister and the same people wil maintain that the economy under OBJ's govt is a mess.

Now, you agree that se did well and aso agree that it is right to ascribe her successes to the administration she was part of, so what is your problem?

@adconline,

Our GDP is not our total asset and yet even the number you posted is far more than the total asset of the bank that you believe can buy our oil. Does it make sense to you?

Mariory:
Makes you wonder doesn't it? Some of those same people were also on the other thread saying Rev king deserved the death sentence he got. Reminds you of a little something called hypocrisy.

I stated that Rev King deserved the death sentence just as I am in support of the death sentenced passed on this Nigerian in Singapore.

On Saddam, he was sentenced to death for doing what every president or governor does when a court sentences anyone to death - sign the death warrant.

My point is that Saddam was directly responsible (even with audio tapes as evidences) for the killing of innocent Kurds and these Kurds were never tried in any courts, they were just killed based on orders from Saddam.

On crimes like that he deserved to be killed, I do not object to Saddam being killed for real crimes, I object to killing him for a crime that never existed.

Donzman:
You contradict yourself in the same post. Countries make laws and spell out punishments, Iraq have laws and used it on Saddam who is Iraqi. Iraqi laws should not apply to George Bush who is American, should it?Stop comparing Saddam and George Bush. . .What an idiot.


The punishment is excessive, end of story.

@Donzman,

There is no contradiction here. I am sure a lot of people from different parts of the world objected to the trial and subsequent execution based on how the trial went and the speed with which it was carried out.

If Saddam needed to die by signing the death warrants of people tried and convicted by the law courts then people like Bush and any president (even the person signing the death warrant of the Nigerian in question should be guilty of the same offence as well.

My post was simple unless you have other thoughts on your mind for making the statements you are making.

Do not use your level of understanding on any issue as a standard because your standard may be too low especially when you do not have any clue about what you are saying.

I also await Nigerians working in the oil and gas to contribute, maybe their comments will teach you a thing or two.

4 Play:
Well how can u argue with someone who thinks that Nigeria has the expertise to explore and exploit oil resources.

Not even Russia can operate its petroleum industry without Western help.

This is the zenith of ignorance.

Tools are used to explore and exploit crude oil.

The comment on Russia shows how empty the writer is on this issue, sorry.

Well, this forum can never be a substitute for sound understanding of what it takes to explore and exploit crude oil.

Countries make laws and clearly spell out punishments for erring people.

Saddam was sentenced to death for the same thing that Bush still does till today, common sense should make this clear.

My mistake on IMF, I meant World Bank Group, every single reference to IMF should read World Bank.

@Buluti,

Any answers you may have as regards the question directed at the World Bank in the online gathering remain yours just like I can receive over 1 million answers if the same question is posed to over 1 million people.

On your comments about 80% power supply and what I use to make it up, it is the same baseless response like this one that made me not to bother replying adconline with the list he provided because different people will obviously rate the performances based on their perculiar experiences.

On Dick Cheney, you may need to know the difference between someone coming to limelight and someone being in a position of authority. The key word here is visibility, I will not waste my time debating such issues where there is no end in sight because I must agree to what you say.

NB Still on Iweala, I do not know what you need to hear to understand how her appointment with Nigeria shot her into limelight. I could not lay my hands on a document that clearly spelt out her role while at the World bank and I decided to use the search engine hoping to get relevant information especially from the world bank website but over 95% of the information you will get on Okonjo Iweala will be based on her work in Nigeria and not the World bank.

If time permits, do see the following link http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTSITETOOLS/0,,contentMDK:20147466~menuPK:344189~pagePK:98400~piPK:98424~theSitePK:95474,00.html

I will still make available verifiable information as regards the position of Iweala while at the World bank especially her level of authority.

These satellite pictures that are being referenced all the time, when where the pictures taken?

Is it not funny that even though ethnicity was never stated in the census excercise, someone is constantly basing his arguement on a false premise here by discussing Hausa/Fulani?

nigeria1:
IF the senate and the national assembly approve the census figure I give up on Nigeria, and I would believe that Nigeria is a useless nation, it is not worth been a nigerian, It shows that the senate and national assembly are men who lack credibility,

Because how on earth would the fulani/hausa group in 1991 census of 25 million, in 15 years now give birth to 20 million children with one of the world highest child mortality rate of about 20 babies,

It took 265 million american 20 years to do what Mr makma claim the 25 million fulani/hausa did in 15 years.

Scientific I do think it is an impossible feat, not everybody out of the 25 million can have children because most have finished having their children at 35 years, and at less 30% of more would be children who could not have children. nearly 70% of 25 million fulani/ hausa that was around in 1991 could not have had children in the past 15 years, because of age or old age,

so mr makama is saying it took just less than 2.5 million of them(5 million men and female) to have 20 million new born babies in 15 years more than 16 millions whole entire population of the Igbos, that is a lie. it is not possible.

I may just consider never in my life to bother about Nigeria issue, IF they do , then I know that it would never be well with Nigeria, And nigeria would continue to be a useless nation that would never develop, but remain in its poverty level , No hope for Nigeria, that none of this men really love Nigeria to the heart, that they are all interest in share ghana must go bags, and do not care for the lifes of Nigeria.

We would shut down most of NigeriaONE system if they senate approve the fraud census.
I would reconsider my Nigeria citizenship if they approve the 2006 census.

By all means reconsider your citizenship as Nigeria will be better off without people that carry out the type of analysis you carried out based on parameters that do not exist and satellite pictures that are useless as regards the census itself.

The drama unfolding in Israel today with top people resigning from Justice Minister to Defence chief (of staff?) to the poor rating the government is getting today as a result of the failed war it waged on Lebanon is getting interesting by the day.

Maybe those that believe that Israel cannot do anything bad will be disappointed as someone shamelessly stated here that if I am a true christian then I must support Israel regardless of its actions.

Why would people choose to be slaves unto nations? Why would someone claim that a country is always right regardless of what the country does? Is this self slavery and imprisonment or what?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

JERUSALEM - Shaking with fury, Israeli President Moshe Katsav rebuffed growing calls for his resignation Wednesday, saying accusations he committed rape and other crimes were "poisonous, horrible lies" that were part of a broad conspiracy against him.

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Katsav asked parliament to temporarily suspend him from office while he fought to clear his name. But momentum was building for lawmakers to open unprecedented impeachment proceedings against the president, and top officials, including Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, urged Katsav to stop clinging to office and allow the nation to heal.

"Under these circumstances, there is no doubt in my mind that the president cannot continue to fulfill his position and he must leave the president's residence," Olmert said.

Impeachment requires a three-fourths majority in parliament, and analysts said that might be difficult to achieve. In contrast, a majority in a parliamentary committee could approve Katsav's request to stand down temporarily.

On Thursday, Israeli lawmakers opened deliberations on Katsav's request for a temporary leave of absence. Israeli media predicted a narrow majority in parliament's House Committee in favor of granting the embattled president's request.

The presidency, a mainly ceremonial post, was traditionally filled by statesmen and national heroes who were expected to serve as the moral light of the country. Accusations that Katsav used his position to force himself on female employees have infuriated Israelis.

At a stormy, nationally televised speech at his official residence Wednesday night, Katsav professed his innocence and accused the police and media of working together to bring him down, using terms like "witch hunt" and "McCarthyism." He angrily pounded the podium and his voice cracked during a rambling diatribe that lasted nearly an hour.

"Don't believe the libel, the defamation, the lies. There is only one truth , I am the target of one of the worst attacks in the history of the state of Israel," Katsav said, gesturing with a pointed finger, pounding on the podium and shouting at a reporter. He pledged to "fight to my last breath, even if it means a world war, to clear my name."

He refused to answer questions from reporters in his first appearance before them since the scandal broke six months ago.

Pressure quickly mounted on Katsav to step down after Attorney General Meni Mazuz announced Tuesday that he plans to indict him on rape, sexual assault, abuse of power and other charges.

Katsav "should not be waging the battle to prove his innocence from the president's office," Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, who also serves as acting justice minister, said in a statement.

Thirty of parliament's 120 lawmakers _ 10 more than required _ signed a motion to begin impeachment proceedings, and nearly 70 have already said they would vote to remove Katsav, according to the office of lawmaker Zehava Galon, who initiated the drive. Impeachment would require the support of 90 legislators.

In an effort to blunt the protests, Katsav asked parliament on Wednesday to grant him a leave of absence, which could last up to three months.

Minister of Public Security Avi Dichter brushed off Katsav's suggestion, saying he "must not cling to the post, not even for a few months."

Resignation or impeachment would deprive Katsav of his presidential immunity. The 61-year-old Katsav's seven-year term is to end this summer. If he leaves office early, parliamentary speaker Dalia Itzik will become acting president until parliament chooses a replacement.

Mazuz said that before officially pressing charges, he would give the president an opportunity to plead his case.

During his speech Wednesday, Katsav said he would resign if officially indicted. "I will not stay in this house for one more second. I will resign," he pledged.

But the president, who was born in Iran, was defiant and implied the charges against him were motivated by racism against Israelis of Middle Eastern origin, who have traditionally been marginalized here.

His wife, Gila, sat softly crying in the audience.

No sitting Israeli president has ever been charged with a crime. But the Israeli public has grown accustomed to the spectacle of politicians mired in corruption scandals. Former Justice Minister Haim Ramon is currently being tried in a separate sexual misconduct case, and Olmert is under investigation for his role in the sale of a government-controlled bank.

He was aware of the penalty for the offence so no big deal.

If he had succeeded the deal may have destroyed a lot of lives too.

I agree that the onus lies on the Nigerian government to stop any illegal activities of the foreign oil companies.

However, Nigeria has the expertise to explore and exploit oil, it is the same lies and deceit that these companies sell to gullible government officials that allow them do what they do.

I am personally aware of an offshore platform that a Nigeria sent for a helicopter and sent all the foreigners out of the platform and since then the platform never recorded any problems even when they were using that platform to make money via man made problems that oil servicing companies will rectify at astronomical costs.

But for that single bold decision that platform would have remained another conduit to steal money endlessly.

Blaming the oil companies for even criminal activities (Agip will pay to kill) does not absolve the Nigerian government of any blames for letting these things happen in the first place and it can stop them if it wanted to.

@Buluti,

You may bring up her day to day job schedule at IMF if you wanted to do so, my point remains that she never had any authority to act on behalf of the IMF if the Preseident was away.

Arguing about limelight concerning Iweala maybe be like arguing about Dick Cheney in the US and it makes no sense. Prior to Iweala being appointed the finance minister in Nigeria only countries that had business with IMF would have good reasons to know her and that would even mean a few people in the top echelon that negotiate with IMF on behalf of the country.

The statement below is neither here nor there because I am sure the performance you are attesting to is based on the finance minister portfolio and not UN VP. Of course, no one is throwing away her previous job experience but that job experience was not what made Iweala well known all over the world today unless you have another motive that is far from noble in your arguement.

It was her performance, and previous work experience and not being Finance Minister.

On Dick Cheney again you miss the point, serving under Ford and subsequent presidents did not bring Cheney to the limelight unless you assume that US alone means the world in your eyes so if those in US know him then the world knows him.

Your explanation as regards why Nigerians (loosely speaking) tend to behave the way they do is not an excuse, there is no point justifying things that could be done properly or correctly, it is always better to do things right than to do them wrong and attempt to justify them.

@adconline,

No bank in South Africa can afford to buy all our oil, this statement is so fundamentally wrong.

Nigeria did not qualify under HIPC because the world bank and IMF know too well that Nigeria is way too rich not to repay the debts with crazy interest rates that may keep the debts being rolled over for eternity.

I do not know where you got the idea that Iweala's performance should be used to judge OBJ, my point is that finance ministry had direct influence over the economy of the nation and if people are praising her while she was there then it means that she must have done positive things in the Nigerian economy and if that is the case then it is illogical for anyone to say that the economy under OBJ has been a mess unless Iweala is being praised for being a woman and not her performance.

And yes, OBJ should take the responsibility for the failures in the aviation industry since he is the head just as it is correct to praise him for any successes recorded by any ministry under his administration, this is both common sense and logical.

I did not bother replying your previous points because it was a great distraction from the points being made on this thread, I do not work for the government neither do I act as its image enhancing agency, I discuss issues concerning Nigeria based on what is on ground and voice my displeasure when people twist issues and find it difficult to separate issues from personalities.

I have very good reasons to rate OBJ over 50% just as you believe you have yours to rate him lower, your choice. And by the way, I do see over 80% of power supply everyday and make up the rest by using an inverter backup system that we build to gurantee uninterrupted power supply for close to 2 years now both at home and in my office.

buluti:
The so called highly populated, comfortable and productive Northern Nigeria. Yobe state was said to have over 2.3 million people, mostly living in the villages.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6288445.stm

Villages that are being eroded, its in my country that deserts have such a high population.

Even if Yobe state is a desert (and we know it is not), all the states in the north are not deserts.

No vex ooo, I wasn't comparing myself with you let alone discussing who may be better off, far from it.

As regards material things, don't boast lest you realise that you may never be able to achieve what the person you are boasting to have achieved. Call am simple advice or reality check, na your choice.

Easyy:
Are you side tracking the point here?

Thanks for pointing that out, I was wondering why he is trying to shift focus after being presented with overwhelming statements to oppose his wrong position.

Maybe the guy don born again

TerraCotta:
Afam--so many Nigerians are driven by irrational logic that they miss the basic truth of your statement. The last sentence is especially relevant. These reports haven't even convincingly established that Okonjo-Iweala was seriously considered for the job, in my view. There's also this weird idea that Okonjo-Iweala resigned out of disagreement with Obasanjo--it might comfort some people, but there's simply no proof to back it up. She's been interviewed by the BBC since and had nothing but gracious words to say about him. Then it comes out that her husband was being blackmailed for sleeping with his ex-mistress around the time that she left the job. Coincidence?

I don't know why it's so hard for some of us to be impartial--OBJ is no saint, and he's definitely made mistakes, but there's no reason to believe he's plotting to ruin a woman he hired and brought to national/global prominence in the first place.

@TerraCotta,

That is what pisses me off, you see these guys turn logic on its head once OBJ comes into the equation, at times I just feel like throwing up.

How can these same people clamour or advocate for a better Nigeria when they effortlessly twist issues and argue illogically?

@Topic,

I have read interesting posts on this and I will only make some comments.

1. Iweala was brought to limelight by virtue of her position as the finance minister in Nigeria not based on the VP of a part of IMF. She did not have enough authority to take decisions concerning the IMF assmuning the IMF President was away. Such positions are strategically given to people who can influence certain decisions mainly based on country of origin.

2. IMF in itself is a failed institution with so many failed policies in many countries. There are countries that have even decided not to honour any debt payments because the IMF grant loans and insist on implementing the projects in such a way that the projects will never recoup the money spent.

I joined a live online collaboration setup by IMF about 3 years ago and they requested questions from participants and these questions were posted live and responses provided as the questions were asked. I asked IMF to name countries that have benefitted from its policies as many of the countries that had collected IMF loans went from bad to worse.

No response was given and after about a week, I got a detailed response to the simple question I asked ( a great departure from the set rules for the online meeting that was held). Needless to say the responses were neither here nor there. So, in essence working in an institution no matter how popular does not translate into being an asset afterall Enron boasted of Phd holders yet it went down. Even in Nigeria, Cadbury is going the same way - fraud, falsification of financial statements etc.

3. Just like Dick Cheney (VP USA) left the chairmanship position at Harliburton to become the VP of the US (which is a positive career move by any standards), our dear Okonjo Iweala move from the VP of a section of IMF to a prominent position as the Finance Minister of the most populous black nation on earth, a country that IMF would do anything to do business with for that matter.

4. As regards disagreements between Iweala and OBJ concerning being removed as the head of the economic team, it is perfectly in order for her to be removed as the head since she was moved from finance ministry to external affairs ministry lest she begins to give instructions to the new finance minister.

In conclusion, I maintain that it is highly illogical for one to shower praises on Iweala for a job well done while she was the head of the economic team and yet maintain that OBJ did not do anything good while in power even when the state of the economy is the usually quoted criteria for judging the performance of OBJ and the current administration.

But as usual, we agree to or believe what is convenient for us to agree to or believe regardless of the correctness or otherwise.

The school was never built for less than 200 students, the number represents the first intake and as the students move from one class to another new students will be admitted.

Oprah made it clear that she wanted a school that she would be proud to attend herself and she should be encouraged, afterall she was not under any obligation to build any school for anyone for that matter let alone free school.

However, it seems that some of us never followed the story nor fully understood what had happened.

Did anyone threaten to deport you if you do not support everything the US does? It seems you are trying to impress some people in certain quarters with your wrong analysis and futile defence for policies that even americans object to.

Get a life and live like other human beings, being unintelligence is not a curse, you can improve if you are really ready to learn, blind arguements will only expose how narrow minded you are.

Mariory:
The papers this morning said there was a massive turnout of voters looking to register in some States in the North. When they vote and their own choice surpasses that of yours, are you still going to come here and complain?

Good point. I hope satellite pictures will not be used to object the votes if similar results are recorded.

So this dog (TadoD) has not been caged yet? I believe the information minister may have heard comments from egg heads like this dog that warranted him to state that the views/positions of Nigerians abroad are inconsequential.

Only God knows how many people he worships to survive in the States with this level of shameless defence he keeps putting up for very clear issues.

Maybe Rice needs to hire him to help her spread the lies abi na confusion.

Yar'adua remains the better choice, afterall no one has come out with any corrupt charges against him, all his opponents keep hammering on is that he was reluctant to run or that he is sick as if the healthiest man can not drop dead tomorrow.

Buhari had to backdate a decree to execute 3 Nigerians for drug peddling, under normal circumstances he should be tried for overthrowing a legitimate government.

It does not make sense that he wants to partake in democracy that he truncated and plunged the nation into backwardness due to that singular act and subsequent coupists like IBB and Abacha that took turns to rule abi ruin Nigeria.

2/3 of americans don't support his crazy policies, the majority of the world hate the crazy policies based on lies.

Even his aides have failed to confuse people, yet on this forum we have Nigerians that have no clue as regards what is happening trying to waste their time lying through every known wrong doing of Bush and his fellow war mongers, real shame.