₦airaland Forum

@Tayod,

I believe you have been able to demonstrate that when it boils down to issues you are completely lost.

This forum is not a substitute for real education, you can't have it both ways.

Take your time and learn what you don't know else you end up ridiculing yourself in a public forum.

davidylan:
The above highlighted statement from you smacks of plain ignorance! Iran being the host control has NO sovereign right over any embassy in Iran! I'm sure you must have heard of what is known as a DIPLOMATIC RESIDENCE!
That compound is under the sovereignity of the country that owns that consulate! That is why you don't have Nigerian soldiers or policemen running amok at the US and British embassies in Lagos! Neither can President Bush order the arrest of the Iranian ambassador to the US!

Well, it may be plain ignorance on my part but I cannot be too daft and stupid to make the submission you made. Education does not equal knowledge and with your posts I need not go far to find out how true that statement is.

davidylan:
What Iran did was terrorism! plain and simple!

And because you say so, we must agree or we become ignorant people, very interesting way of thinking.

@Buluti,

I really don't like getting involved in discussions where sentiments and unnecessary bias are being played out without caution.

I am an Igbo man, Kano and Lagos states are states outside the South East, as a matter of fact I have more stake in Lagos state than in Kano state because I live and work in Lagos.

However, the issue on ground is the validity or otherwise of the census results.

Who do we believe? What do we base our decisions on? What parameters should we use? How verifiable are our approach to this?

It has been demonstrated here that sentiments, open ended statements or plain bias are prefered to facts, verifiable routes to finding the right answer.

The explanation that Lagos state will not release its results because it will be unconstitutional is a big fraud on the part of Lagos state for the following reasons.

1. If the results were never going to be released, why did the state use tax payers money to finance such a project?

2. Lagos state needs to have an accurate census result to be able to plan and carter for the people living in Lagos

3. Announcing its results is not the same thing as overturning the NPC results as NPC results is the one that gets passed into law.

4. Any state can embark on a census within the state to enable it plan.

It is strange that while you are willing to agree with the decision of Lagos state not to release the result, you are convinced that the one released by NPC is wrong even when there are no verifiable alternatives to get a better one.

I have also read on this thread where satellite pictures are referenced, I am a process engineer with real and practical experience with programming. Using google maps and other mapping tools to justify certain positions may be faulty because some of these images were taken even before 2000.

The sources of these images are well documented and anyone that can overlay images and write good programs can do what google did with goggle maps, so the most important thing here is the time the images were taken.

And even in the very unlikely event of getting access to images taken last year, it tells you nothing about the people living in a state or in a country as the primary aim of satellite imaging is not to count people.


@davidylan,

I do not know why you find it difficult to agree or disagree with people without your name calling. Twice you have refered to people that disagree with your claims and positions (that must be accepted or else, ) as apologists.

I expected you to give reasons why the census results should be rejected not making open ended statements and expecting people to agree with them or be damned.

I need not tell you that any insults from you will be responded to in kind without caution. Stick to the issues, make your points and leave people to make up their minds based on the information available.

You are not here to convince anyone, you cannot force people to agree with your positions on any matter for that matter.

Jakumo:
Sad but true Afam, and yes, the chances of getting prompt medical attention after a car wreck in Nigeria are very low indeed. Conventional wisdom prevents most Nigerian road users from being altruistic and helping anyone in distress because once the Nigerian police get involved, good Samaritans quickly become "suspects" who are held accountable for the death or injury of the accident victims they carried to the hospital. And anyone hoping for an ER type rapid response to accident scenes by any organized body in Nigeria will have better luck flagging down Santa Claus and his team of raindeer as they wing their way back to the North Pole.

Chances of getting prompt medical attention after a car wreck in Nigeria is low, I won't agree with very low.

You may have issues with the sophistication of the medical services but that does not and cannot equate the comment no 5 made by someone above.

Meanwhile, drivers should be more careful so that they avoid car wrecks to begin with.

I believe in preventing problems not solving them.

Donzman:
There's a difference between being a graudate student who lectures and a full time lecturer. In most universities in the West, you can't be a lecturer in a university without a PhD.

The West is not Nigeria. Afterall we have terrible teachers that are Phd holders and very good teachers that don't have Phd.

And we need to move towards a system where a lot of emphasis is being place on paper qualifications. I know some people that do not know jack parading with Master's degrees in Nigeria.

It is strange to note that apart from generalized statements like "Kano is a desert", "there are more than 4 million houses in Lagos", nothing concrete has been canvassed as a reason for us not to agree with the census results.

Why is Lagos not making public its own results at least to counter the ones released by NPC? Is Lagos state hiding something?

Again when you do the simplistic mathematics of 4 million houses times say 3 people we may be making a very big mistake because the houses may be offices as some residential homes do act as offices in Lagos.

So far, I have not seen any reason not to agree with the census result and Lagos state has an excellent opportunity to challenge the result by releasing its own results, afterall the census team in Lagos comprised of both Lagos State officials and the NPC.

I provided information twice when I was counted and when I queried them they told me that one is for Lagos State while the other was the federal one, NPC.

Let us hope and work towards a nation that will value facts as against rumours and sentiments that may be meaningless at the end of the day.

I will advice you to look for both positive and negative criticisms, infact you will benefit more from the negative ones unless you are looking for just praises.

White text on green background may cause problems with some people viewing the pages.

Also try to make the links (either in the navigation or the body area) anything but white.

@Twinstaiye,

Thanks for pointing the obvious issues to this guy.

I believe he has already sold his soul to anything US or Israel regardless of what these two countries do and it is very obvious in all his submissions and comments.

I am happy that more and more people now have access to information and are making up their minds based on what they read and not being teleguided by politicians or the mainstream media.

Don't have time for blind arguement.

It seems you are having a difficult time realising that what the people of US last November was the best route for the US, keep whining about the democrats or the alternatives Afam will offer the clueless Bush.

Enjoy your life as the president you are bent on supporting inspite of his many wrong actions has since been deserted by many nations, his people (based on the mid term elections) and lately Britain.

Even the best spin doctors and bombs have failed to project the man or his actions in good light, so don't worry, you are engaged in a project that has already failed.

mazaje:
its not the worst place to live but nothing they have said here is untrue, all they have said are what is happening in nigeria. no wonder nigeria was featured on bbc's weekend in the danger zone. how sad

Really? If you believe that the statement below is true then you need serious help. I need not go into the correctness or otherwise of the other generalizations.

5. Fear of knowing that if one gets in a car wreck in Nigeria, the first on the scene are likely to be pick-pockets and "sympathizers" swarming in to relieve the dead and injured of their wallets and valuables, while medical help may NEVER arrive.

nigeria1:
You see if the senate approve that census, Nigeria would go to war, because in 2016, Fulani/hausa who were just 18% in 1963, which mr Makawa now claim is 30% would be 50% of Nigeria population, All this fraud stop now, Like I said I have nothing against the fulani/hausa,my problem with this issue is the census figure.

Go to war? Over the census results? I don't think so and please while you prepare for war come back to Nigeria so that you will be involved in the war.

We do not want people that incite, instigate and fund wars while they relax in other countries waiting for Nigerians to die and clear the mess so they can inherit a perfect nation.

Make your points for or against the census results and stop involving issues like war because it is totally uncalled for and irrelevant in the discussion.

At least he has a verifiable past and did well as regards managing public funds under his care.

If all the governors decided not to loot like him Nigeria would have been a lot better.

TayoD:
To avoid the endless tripping, perhaps you should start by changing the headline from Consulate to Liaison office.

Hmm, so the problem is now changing the headline even when I have used the words Laison ofiice at least two times? There is certainly no limit you can go when clearly losing an arguement. Maybe being wrong over and over again means nothing to you.

TayoD:
Secondly, no country has any right to invade another's embassy. The Embassy operates under the rules and jurisdiction of her country and not of its host. That is shifting the goal post to accomodate the lawlessness of the Iranians.

Another statement from the wind. I need not go into who has ultimate sovereignty in any nation, it would a total waste of time.

TayoD:
And by the way, what do you expect to be done if based on good intelligence the u.s. knows that the Liaison Office is a front for attacks on the U.S. forces?

What I expect to be done is immaterial, what is obvious and the crux of the matter is that the US is wrong in raiding a laison office of another country when the host nation is not the US.

Jakumo:
Folks are scared to return to Nigeria for some of the following reasons

1. Possible armed robbery attack on the way from the airport, which is still a rather frequent occurrence, or later on at home when news spreads that a "dollar-man or woman" has just arrived.

2. Demands of the extended family who all expect to be heavily cash subsidized by the recent arrival from the land of milk and honey. Doesn't matter if the hapless visitor was a cab driver stateside, he or she will surely face an assembly line of "help" appeals from hordes of relatives known and unknown.

3. Unwillingness to live anywhere that only enjoys mains electricity for but a few hours each week.

4. Fear of being mugged, robbed, incarcerated or murdered by Nigerian "policemen".

5. Fear of knowing that if one gets in a car wreck in Nigeria, the first on the scene are likely to be pick-pockets and "sympathizers" swarming in to relieve the dead and injured of their wallets and valuables, while medical help may NEVER arrive.

It is really disturbing the way and manner people talk about Nigeria as if its the worst place on planet earth.

I do not want to get into an endless round tripping here.

US does not have any right to raid the laison office of a nation that is not in the US.

What the Iranians did and what the US did are miles apart.

Well, I do not think it is possible for Iran to fund the Sunni insurgency and Shia militants at the same time.

TayoD:
You should have said this to the Iranians when they raided the American Embassy some years back while holding the occupants for 444 straight days. And for your information, it was the liaison office that was raided which is not anything near an embassy or consulate. I hope you know the difference.

Sure, I know the difference.

To begin with what the Iranians did was not what the US did.

The Iranians took US citizens hostage in the US embassy in Iran. Iran being the host country has ultimate sovereignty over any embassy in Iran.

The US raided the Iranian Laison office (which represents the country Iran) in Iraq. Iraq being the host country could have gotten away with such action because ultimate sovereignty rests with them and not the US, a foreign country that illegally invaded Iraq.

TayoD:
Bush has nothing to lose anymore and will do all he can to reduce U.S. casualties in Iraq while trying to stabilise the government. Based on the reports, it is clear that there has been evidence of illegal activities in this liaison office for a while now, but the U.S. Administration's new policy effectively removes the limiting factors that hindered their ability to take proactive action against the insurgents being allegedly supported and armed by Iran.

Well, while it is a given that Bush has nothing to lose anymore, it is totally unacceptable for him to continue to commit avoidable blunders.

For your information Iran is not supporting the insurgency in Iraq, Iran is supporting and backing the Shias, even though areas that are predominantly Shiites have fought bitter battles with the US forces, the insurgency is clearly being associated with the Sunnis and Iran cannot possibly be arming the Sunnis.

demmy:
Facts

@buluti
Jigawa State was created in 1991, so Kano State's figure was without Jigawa's figure. The '91 figures were 2,875,525 and 5,810,470 respectively for Jigawa and Kano.

Thanks for the information, I asked this question because I wasn't sure when Jigawa was carved out of Kano and I don't believe in taking positions on things I don't have concrete information on.

Some had tried to create the impression that the previous election covered the old Kano.

@Buluti,

As regards any clarifications or challenges today on the issue of Lagos state I believe that Lagos state has a tangible reason we can refer to.

I believe only Lagos state conducted a parallel census and it is strange that while it has rejected the NPC results, it has done nothing to counter it by making open the census it conducted with tax payers money.

My dear, I don't want the media or politicians thinking for me or teleguiding me.

As to what emperical calcualtions, geography or postulations have to do with the issue the only thing I will state here is that I know where to draw the line between actual measurements and inferences, postulations and assumptions.

I maintain that only a census can give you the actual number of people living in an area and I wonder why you disagree with this.

I would not want to get into issues not related to this thread so you may suggest what you think people should believe, the NPC with a census and results or the objections and rejections based on statements like "Kano is a desert", "Lagos attracts more people" etc.

A lot of people come to do business in Lagos state everyday, I hope we understand that some of these people don't even live in Lagos.

@Buluti,

I don't know what patriotism has got to do with the issue of the census. This is a huge departure from the way your posts have been, don't know why and don't really care why.

I am a full blooded Igbo man from Enugu state so I am in the least concerned with all these ethnic or tribal sentiments people easily bring to the fore when issues are asking to be discussed devoid of any sentiments or bias.

Emperically calculated or not, only a census can give a definite answer as regards the population of any nation or state.

Am I still suggesting that the result is accurate? If all the logic behind the objections raised thus far is based on the arguements I have read on this thread then I will most likely stick with the results by NPC than with the objections.

Again, when was Kano state divided into 2 states? I not sure of the year so I want to know so one can take a good look at the 1991 census results. That way we can separate real issues as some arguement seems to suggest that old Kano's population was the one being compared Lagos.

If Lagos state (that so far has what it takes to rubbish the results based on the fact that it conducted a parallel census at the same time) cannot release its results then the complaints can be effortlessly sent to the trash can.

I never look forward to a future based on rumours, sentiments, bias misinformation.

My worry is that inspite of all the criticisms raised, nothing tangible has been stated to show that the results are fake. All we read here is that the results cannot be correct even when reasons to believe otherwise cannot be made.

ubamu2029:
But my mind rejects this proposal for i am convinced that they are cultists. No matter how Wole Soyinka and his men view themselves, I still them as diabolical elements of our society. They operate in the night. They operate in secret. They are members of secret society.

In most cases, following your mind may be the best thing for you because ultimately no matter the advice that people give to you, in the end only you will bear the full consequences of your actions whether right or wrong.

ubamu2029:
What I want is a reason to consider or reject pyrates. I also understand they want to register a party based on their ideologies. I would want to know from their members, what their ideologies are.

Well, if you want to know from their members, why not join them and find out first hand instead of relying on second hand, third hand or even fourth hand information?

It seems there is no stopping Bush on his quest to wage wars on all fronts regardless of the implications or correctness of orders/directive he gives.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bush approved raids on Iranians in Iraq

By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
47 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - An order from President Bush authorized a series of U.S. raids against Iranians in Iraq as part of a broad military offensive, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday.

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Bush issued the order several months ago, Rice told The New York Times as she prepared to visit the Middle East. She said the president acted "after a period of time in which we saw increasing activity" among Iranians in Iraq "and increasing lethality in what they were producing."

Five Iranians were detained by U.S.-led forces this week after a raid on an Iranian government liaison office in northern Iraq, a move that has frayed even further the relations between the two countries. The United States accuses Iran of helping provide roadside bombs that have killed American troops in Iraq, and a bitter standoff already exists over Tehran's nuclear program.

Rice, according to a story for the Saturday print editions of the Times, described the military effort against Iranians in Iraq as a defensive "force protection mission." Concerns that Iran was trying to further destabilize the country also motivated the raids, she told the newspaper.

"We think they are providing help to the militias as well, and maybe even the more violent element of these militias," she said.

The State Department said Friday that U.S.-led forces entered an Iranian building in Kurdish-controlled Irbil because information linked it to Revolutionary Guards and other Iranian elements engaging in violent activities in Iraq. There was no truth to reports that Iran was carrying out legitimate diplomatic activity at the site, State Department spokesman Tom Casey said.

However, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurd, contended that the Iranians were working in a liaison office that had government approval and was in the process of being approved as a consulate. In Iran, Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the U.S. raid constituted an intervention in Iranian-Iraqi affairs.

On Friday, U.S. officials said there was no immediate plan to strike targets in Iran, but they also wouldn't rule out military action. Their comments came after Bush vowed in a prime-time address to the nation to go after Iranian terrorist networks feeding the insurgency in Iraq.

Bush's remarks Wednesday in a speech announcing his plan to boost U.S. forces in Iraq prompted questions from members of Congress about whether the U.S. is considering attacks on Iranian territory. Administration officials have long refused to rule out any options against Iran but said military action would be a last resort.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Friday told the Senate Armed Services Committee that while U.S. forces are trying to prevent Iran and Syria from disrupting U.S. forces in Iraq, there were no immediate plans for an attack.

"We believe that we can interrupt these networks that are providing support through actions inside the territory of Iraq, that there is no need to attack targets in Iran itself," Gates told the panel, adding that he continues to believe that "any kind of military action inside Iran itself, that would be a very last resort."

Pace said special operations forces are continually battling insurgents who are getting aid from Iran.

"I think one of the reasons you keep hearing about Iran is because we keep finding their stuff in Iraq," Pace said.

Sen. Joseph Biden (news, bio, voting record), D-Del., chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, wrote to Bush on Thursday asking for clarifications on the administration's stance toward attacking Iran. Sens. John Warner (news, bio, voting record), R-Va., and Robert Byrd (news, bio, voting record), D-W.Va., raised the issue at a hearing Friday.

"The president seems to have placed diplomacy on the back-burner again," Byrd said.

In his speech Wednesday, Bush chastised Iran and Syria for not blocking terrorists at their borders with Iraq. He specifically blamed Iran for providing material support for attacks on American troops.

"We will disrupt the attacks on our forces," Bush said. "We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq."

On Friday, White House spokesman Tony Snow called the suggestion that war plans were under way an "urban legend."

"What the president was talking about is defending American forces within Iraq, and also doing what we can to disrupt networks that might be trying to convey weapons or fighters into battle theaters within Iraq to kill Americans and Iraqis," Snow said.

MAMAJAMA:
Why are some Nigerians abroad scared of going back home?

fear of criminals? police brutality and extortion?
fear of immigration and customs activities at the point of entry?
fear of accommodation or transportation?
bad driving and bad roads?


What are some of the problems confronting Nigerians when they finally go back home and what are some of the issues preventing people from coming back home to invest in the future of this lovely country? please share your views.

Only those afraid of coming back home know the real reasons regardless of what they say outside but it will most likely not be based on the reasons/questions raised even though they seem to be the perfect excuse.

@Buluti,

I am certain former heads of states were present when the results were announced (unless it was another function I saw on TV) so all the stake holders were present and I would not know why one will allow the other manipulate the results the way we all fear now without any challenge.

Under a northern president the arguement may be made that the president wanted the north to get the highest population but with a southern president this same line of thinking can't hold.

I still expect Lagos state to release its own results and let the world see if it is different from what the NPC recorded, afterall they carried out a joint excercise.

The failure of the Lagos state in not announcing this result keeps me thinking.

Is the result as released by the NPC correct?

Why not expose the fraud by announcing its own result? Is the state government hiding something and merely complaining rather than backing it up with a parallel census results for Lagos state?

My dear, I have not learnt to support anything I don't have enough information on.

I asked about the 1991 census and someone stated that the populations of Kano and Lagos were almost the same according to a post made by davidylan

According to the 1991 census figures, Kano state was purported to have a population of 5,632,040 while that of Lagos was put at 5,685,781.

So, as at 1991, Kano was more population by less than 60,000 people.

I really will not stake my head for speculations, postulations or guess work as one may be following a bad lead and I don't like running into dead ends.

I am not surprised at the results recorded in the South East because a lot of us are scattered outside the South East both within and outside Nigeria.

Yeah, it is very ideal forum script, use it without any reservations.

Is the word impeachment missing in the US constitution or what? Bush does not have any business with governance for whatever reasons.

He has been a collosal failure and is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths based on lies.

I guess it is time they change the name of the troops from Multinational Force abi na Coalition Forces to US Forces and some friends.

@Big B1,

I sincerely believe that you are extremely far from honest in your discussions especially when they have anything to do with IBB or Adenuga.

Sometimes, it is sickening reading the excuses you give for IBB's mistakes/actions while stating what and what OBJ has done wrong and passing judgement on him.

It seems that the US under Bush will continue to commit blunders upon blunders.

Some days ago we were told that the US acting on "intelligence" bombed a location and claimed that indeed, one of the wanted terrorists was killed.

Today, even the US has admitted that the guy was not killed.

So, who were killed? Did innocent people die yet again by bombs sent by the US?

How many times will the US make grave mistakes as regards bombing people and admitting mistakes later?

Maybe they should consult juju men so that they help them in this their intelligence work as they are certainly doing badly in that area.

Let Lagos state release its own results, afterall they counted the people side by side the NPC.

Rejecting it is one thing, going a step further to show us what the real figures are is another.

They should release its findings unless it is hiding something.

Well, it is not the best to come into any arguement with a specific mindset as such practice lead to name calling when people do not agree with a particular position.

Just as the CIA did not conduct a census in Nigeria, a lot of us here maintaining that Lagos has more population than Kano did not conduct any either.

Let us also remember that people living in Akute and its environs will not be counted as Lagosians just as any single person that traveled out of Lagos would imply minus 1 for Lagos and plus 1 for the destination.

But I believe Lagos conducted its own census side by side the federal one. Let Lagos release its results so that we can get a handle of what is really going on because I expect Lagos to counter the claims by making available the results it recorded instead of making general and sensational statements about the results being rejected.

We must promote intelligent discussion with a view of understanding our environments and preventing our leaders from toying with our future.

@Buluti,

Thanks for the questions, my mistake for not stating his reasons.

To begin with, his reasons does not necessarily mean he is correct, it is just that he look at the issue differently and coming from the South East, I felt he wasn't saying anything to protect his own people as is using the case in issues like these.

1. He stated that Kano has a larger land mass and that people often mistake what they see in the city to represent the whole state. He maintains that even though you may drive for a long time without seeing houses that it doesn't mean that people do not live around there, it may mean that they don't live close to the roads.

2. He asked me if I had any idea of how many northerners that travelled home for the census pointing out that Lagos may have the largest population today before if for the sake of census people travel out, it will lose that advantage. Little wonder Tinubu was asking non indigenes to stay put for the census.

These were the 2 reasons he gave and like I stated, these reasons are not statements of facts that cannot be challenged.

Personally, I want to ask this question, in the last census was Lagos the most populous state in Nigeria or was it Kano?

The answer to this may help us in knowing if what happened was an anormally or has been consistent with previous census results.

I agree that one does not need to live in a place to make an informed decision but do not forget that in this case the actual census officials have the upper hand in knowing for sure what the populations are in the states they covered.

Many thanks for your time.

Good to hear that.

Life sentence? Why?

Anyone that kills another deliberately should be put to death.

Infact jungle justice if applied to a real culprit is ok, people who think they can take other people's lives at will have no reason or right to exist.

The most important thing is that no innocent person should be made to pay the supreme price.

TayoD:
@Donzman,

The soldiers convicted for the Abu Graib scandal didn't kill anyone so why should they get killed? Get you facts right, you are either deliberately mixing up issues or are very ill-informed!!

Would it be ok to believe that you expect the US to sentence to death those responsible for the deliberate killing of innocent civilians at Haditha (not sure of the spelling sha)?

Basic access controls can be implemented just like you change a regular door with a password protected device.

And I believe that cars using less obstrutive gadgets are already in use today.

I heard something from an Igbo man that lived in Kano sometime ago that struck me. He said he was not surprised that Kano State was more populated than Lagos inspite of the noise and complaints over the census results.

He went on to give his reasons, some of which I never even thought off.

The bottomline line is that we should try to discuss issues we understand very well so that we may not be found wanting when these issues require detailed analysis or explanations.

How many of us have lived in both Lagos and Kano and for how long?

Assuming some of us are qualified based on the question above, is there a way for someone to count the number of people apart from personal standards or inferences or belief in popular notions without necessarily focusing on the correctness or otherwise of the decision reached?

Put differently, it will be very difficult for a lot of people to know what happened (assuming the result is fraudulent) and the best we can do is take sides based on conjectures, mindsets, what geography says, bias and sometimes wishful thinking.