₦airaland Forum

Obama has no business asking such question in the first place. Nigeria is certainly not a satellite state of the US and should not be responding to such requests.

adconline:
Afam, wetin be professionalism in Naija military? Wasnt Mustapha, Abacha's CSO  giving orders to folks like  Diya and CO?

All these are all wrong and that was the point Ojukwu was making that it will not augur well for the military to allow Gowon to become the head of state when there was Brigadier General Ogundipe whom Ojukwu stated should take over in the absence of Ironsi who used to be the most senior army officer.

Not listening to that advice led to the scenario you painted where a major would be dealing with a general!

Jakumo:
Several Nigerian newspaper reports recently bayed about President Goodluck Jonathan's "diversion" of funding away from the ill-conceived Niger River dredging scam and to the eminently more worthy cause of alleviating poverty in the Niger Delta.    The use of the word "diversion" in those newspaper opinions is telling, in that it assigns a connotation of illegality to a bold decision that was in fact long overdue, and in the very best interests of the environment and of ensuring lasting peace in the Niger Delta.

The very premise of dredging the Niger River is environmentally reckless, in that vast alluvial floodplains vital to seasonal agriculture, as well as to freshwater fish spawning, stood to be irreversibly drained and turned into a barren dustbowl, sown only with the seeds of famine.  In publicly standing against the destruction of the Niger River's abundant natural resources by that INSANE idea to dredge and ruin all wetlands along her course, President Goodluck Jonathan has displayed the character of a true statesman with a firm grasp of what is right in the long run, along with the commitment to carry it through.

Steady as she goes,  Goodluck Jonathan.   Full steam ahead.

And you don't have a problem using electricity generated from Kainji dam or do these things you have stated don't apply there?

We shall see how this is sorted out at the end of the day irrespective of the ethnic bias being displayed by some of us here who have thrown sound engineering principles to the trash can while promoting propaganda and falsehood.

mikeansy:
Ibime

You ecological argument I must say is very ill thought out and most very unfortunate. It is more than anything driven by selfishness

My sentiments exactly. It seems that no matter how we try to appear objective that tribal stuff will always have a way of coming out and manifesting in our comments.

The reasons being given by some people here from SS about the dredging of the River Niger are at best devoid of sound engineering principles and instead based on opposition to what they perceive to be SE benefit.

Someone from SS had tried unsuccessfully to even advise the SE that Onitsha would be in serious trouble if the dredging went ahead and I remember telling the person that Onitsha alone has enough experts to analyze the situation let alone the SE so such advise would never fly because it was made in bad faith and bad taste.

Fhemmmy:
Very true . . . .Imagine how many companies that are leaving Nigeria and setting up in Ghana.
Imagine if Nigeria has all it takes to be industrialized, India will have nothing on Nigeria, cos foreign nations will move to Nigeria in masses.
1. We speak english and well too.
2. We smart people
3. Our money is not that strong, so foreign coys will make good money
But who in their right mind will wanna move there with all the nonsense and lack of good things that are needed to survive.

Honestly, the reason for businesses relocating to Ghana based on electricity is nonsense because there cheaper alternatives to the generators they depended upon as the sole alternative to steady power supply.

People, businesses and countries want to do business in Nigeria and yet those that are here are leaving for Ghana because of power supply.

Considering the fact that I cannot work without electricity and this is the 6th year I have run my office without a generator just relying on the inverter I built then any excuse hinged on lack of power is either as a result of shortsightedness or ignorance.

Most of these companies that complain see nothing wrong in spending on generators and diesel what they could spend on alternative source of energy in say 10 years in just 1 or 2 years. And that is because a lot of us claim to be experts even on issues we don't understand.

ASL33:
Hahahahaha Ojukwu said it in that giving Gowon power when their are many senior officer is setting a wrong presedence. I think this was said like 40 yrs ago now it is repeating on our very own face.

This is why we must revisit the problems in the past so as to chart a better course for this ship called Nigeria lest it drifts away completely.

Ojukwu maintained that allowing Gowon to become the CinC would be a bad idea considering the fact that he was junior in rank to other people including Brigadier General Ogundipe whom Ojukwu maintained should be the CinC so as to protect the professionalism in the military.

Today a Col is giving a General orders and he is obeying.

Even Sgt Doe became a president at such a low rank.

Maybe be need to start addressing issues without the usual ethnic and tribal colorations so as to understand that fairness, justice, equity are all good for everyone irrespective of race, gender or religion.

Saw this yesterday but it seems there are at least 3 different versions of the time it happened ranging from last year to this year.

However, one version stated that contrary to the story about the robbers asking them to lie down and then asking the driver to run over them that what happened was that the robbers indeed asked the victims to lie down as they normally do on the road and a speeding lorry or truck that didn't want to stop as the robbers were trying to stop him ran over them as he didn't know human beings were on the roads.

I would want to believe this version as I do not see how people would gladly lie down and wait for the bus they were traveling with run them over to a certain death when they could have fought back and probably shot in the process but at least with chances of survival.

People should also learn to defend themselves or fight for their lives when faced with some situations that could lead to certain death.

KnowAll:
And why would you want to abandon rotation now that the SW has done 8 years at Aso Rock?



The SW is not thorn within itself; the most influential SW man got the Presidency which the country needed at the time because of his experience in the Military. He is not necessary the best candidate but a compromise candidate to nurture our nascent democracy.

That worked well at the time, we had 8 years of growth and optimism, our external debts were wiped out by OBJ. He left 52 billion dollars in the coffers to this Mallam we have now,  where do u think we are today ? , this Mallam has not only destroyed the economy by their clueless Banking Policy but is in the process of destroying the Political Process.

The Military has it stands today has being destroyed, people in the military would be speaking with a hush tone to one and another, why give the mandate to this backward people all the good work OBJ did in ensuring democracy is rooted in our culture has being destroyed by the invasion  by Madame First lady and her motley crew.

David Mark might be a compromised candidate for the North to stabilise things as it stands.

Thanks but with all due respect you failed to answer my questions.

Beaf:
^
Spectators will always remain spectators.
Thank goodness Ohaneze thinks differently; they are the true Igbo voice.

Don't be too sure about this because the Ohaneze cannot impose anything on the Igbos.

As long as people want to sweep the past under the carpet trust me the Igbos will not be fooled again.

Obviously, we are not afraid of any fight but we need to understand very clearly why we are getting involved in a fight.

This is why it is impossible to talk about a progressive Nigeria without addressing the issues of the past especially the civil war.

So fast? Just 40 years others are beginning to agitate for the very thing they fought against? Wonders shall never end.

Seems I am already seeing a SE with constant power supply (from coal alone self as about 40% of electricity generation in the US is from coal fired power plants). If the crude oil in Abia and Imo states are not enough we shall access what Anambra has that the FG has termed strategic reserve just to ensure that the crude oil there is not accessed for political reasons.

Interesting times ahead indeed.

KnowAll:
Middlebelters and Northern Christains stand up and fight for your rights you are not a second class citizens in your country. In fact you are more Nigerian than the Hausa / Fulani who are spread all over sub-Saharan African. We are not even sure if the current President is from Niger or Malian like Saraki, stand-up for your right.

What stops David Mark from running in 2011. He is an ex Military guy he would hold the country together. Middlebelters lobby your people for the VP’s Job it is not the birth right of the Hausa / Fulani.

You are asking Middlebelters and Northern Christians to stand up and fight for their rights. How do you want them to do this? And why would they need to fight?

I hope you don't come back to blame them and call them cowards after fighting and that is if perhaps other parts of the country join forces to defeat them.

And why would you want to abandon rotation now that the SW has done 8 years at Aso Rock?

I don't think it is right to insult, abuse or blame any ethnic group for any action or inaction of a few.

If we cannot respect this basic position then those who claim the first coup was an Igbo coup would not be making any mistake.

We must apportion blame accordingly and avoid generalization because it is the same generalization that led to the problems in 66, 67 - 70 war.

okunoba:
@Afam,  u are the only one bringing  ethnic issue into play, Obasanjo and Gowon were also mentioned, should we then assume it was by Igbo people. Please Leave ethnic war out of this discussion.  

The North have shown through the actions of its Governors and Senators that they care 4 the rule of law and are in support of  what is good 4 Nigeria. They have proved to all that their is no Northern conspiracy to hold on to power, its up to goodluck to act decisive and let Nigerians know the health status of Yaradua.

Can you please refer me to the post where I brought ethnic issue into play? My initial response I believe was "Break up ke? One Nigeria my friend".

Abi you want us to break up?

@topic,

Yes, especially when you begin to see people register on the forum for the sole purpose of doing that.

Fashola may not be a saint but considering the work he is doing (acknowledged both within and outside Lagos) I believe he should not be distracted by all these allegations that bother on over inflated contracts. Who determines the level of inflation of contracts?

I have quoted sometimes 1000% higher than others on some programming or power backup projects before without problems and some who insist on quality don't bother paying even when others claim they could do same for ridiculously low amounts.

If all the governors can develop their respective states with inflated contracts then Nigeria will be better for it. This is 100% better than stashing funds in foreign accounts.

~Bluetooth:
there will always be ethnic crisis in a complex nation like ours.if you remember last year,texas threatened obama with secession from the united states when they had a disagreement.a yoruba adage says,cutting off the head is not a solution to headache.what we need is ethnic trust and patriotism which is very lacking.the whole country chose to take sides when issues come up.pro-joanthan,anti-yaradua.where are we aheading with this type of attitude.

I agree with the above but how can you earn the trust when we cannot even tell the truth about our past? You cannot continue to sweep issues under the carpet instead of addressing them and expect people to pretend nothing happened.

Even Rwanda has moved on so why can't Nigeria? Truth makes a lot of difference and it must come before reconciliation and forgiveness which will lead to mutual trust and respect.

Katsumoto:
So are you here to debate only with those who agree with you and who share the same historical point of view? Where in my posts or anywhere in this thread did anyone discuss the killing of innocent people or make excuses for the said killing? Lets stick to the point in dispute. The reason there is conflict and disagreement in the world is because people share different points of view. That people do not share the same point of view as you does not make them liars. As far as you are concerned, it was not an Igbo coup because Nzeogwu was from the mid-west (ignoring that he was Igbo) and the coup was suppressed by two Igbo sons. As far as others are concerned, 8 out of 9 coup plotters were Igbo and they murdered politicians and military men of other tribes. They are two different points of view. I have a different point of view but I don't want to digress any further.

If and when there is ever a commission to discuss the issues of the 60s, do you expect the other sides to just accept your argument? Everyone will put up their arguments. I was brought up to respect other people's opinions even if that opinion is contrary to mine. I believe in intelligent discourse and I will not get exasperated or tired of challenging opinions or inaccuracies (i don't see them as lies) when they are put forward if I have reasons to. Its called a debating a point. I can not stop you from calling others liars if they disagree with you; you are an adult and you can do as you please. I apologise if you think I was mandating you to toe a particular line. I just think we should debate issues without insults and name-calling.

As at the time of the coup both Nzeogwu and Okotie-Eboh were from the mid-west region but they were also from different tribes, Okotie-Eboh was Itsekiri while Nzeogwu was Igbo.

For the records, I respect everyone's opinions no matter how they differ from mine as long as they are not lies.

Your comments on Nzeogwu being Igbo is completely irrelevant because no one has has denied his being Igbo so creating issues where there are none won't fly on this.

No need repeating what I have stated severally on this issue, my positions are crystal clear.

Mistakes are different from lies.

Lies are different from differing opinions.

@

igbo boy:
biko kwu okwu ofuma, at all cost? If something is bound for failure no amount of effort can change that, Should people be laboring for nothing just for the sake of one nigeria?

We can break up and still be friends who trade and visit one another. Different nationalities dont mean enemies

and @

Dark1:
You seem to be contracdicting urself, if south shouldn't come together because of the purported lies both past and present, why should we support one Nigeria? Is the present day Nigeria not a big backside LIE?

However, I'd go with your support one Nigeria cos' splitting will most definitely lead to bloodshed. All these peeps wey dey agitate for fight to finish go hia wien when the thing start

By staying as one, we'd (south) slowly but surely reform the polity and dynamics of ruling the country.

Sorry for the confusion or misunderstanding, my post was actually sarcastic because it seems that certain parts of the country are beginning to see what Ojukwu objected to before the civil war.

becomricch:
Afam people have tried to rewrite history making claim that he was not an igboman.

Who are these people and where are the claims? Do people really argue against facts?

ndu_chucks:
Afam, I've always stated that I'm a Nigerian, you can continue to believe what you wish regarding my state or tribe. I'd suggest that you focus on issues instead of tribes or states of origin, bigotery is never helpful. I know you are a stubborn person who needs his ego massaged to feel important. Just note that you will be called to order whenever you are found running arround loose in the village, olodo.

At least I have never lied against any tribe (as you do most of the time) neither have I ever insulted any tribe here based on the actions of a few (like you do) let alone justify the massacre of innocent people based on what they did not do (as you have shamelessly done time and time again).

So, you see we are miles apart when it comes to debating issues and that is what I have been doing - pointing out your lies so that the issues will not be tainted by them.

Katsumoto:
Afam,
Read your first post again (which I have posted below) and understand why I responded the way I did. If you accept that Nzeogwu was Igbo, what was the point of stating he was from the same region as Okotie-Eboh when we all know that they were from different tribes and the core of coup plotters on January 1966 was Igbo? Also why claim he was the leader when it is well documented that Ifeajuna was the leader. The point that Dayokanu was trying to make was that Okotie-Eboh, like most of the victims of the coup, was not Igbo. Afterall, no one accused the Efik or Ibibio (even though they were later caught in the cross-fire)  of master-minding the coup even though they were from the old Eastern region. The accusation was not levelled against Easterners but against Igbo.

I do not understand your exasperation and use of caustic words. Let us continue to debate issues without a condescending manner and attitude. If individuals are wrong about details, then there is nothing wrong with correcting them. That is the purpose of the forum; it also gives all posters and readers the opportunity to learn in the process. There is no need to get annoyed when someone posts wrong information. If we all get upset and resort to insults every time we post or correct someone, then the spirit of intelligent discourse will be lost in petty squabbling and name calling.

I am sure my posts are usually very clear and unambiguous. You can hide under the banner of decent communication to support lies against another tribe if you like. This you have done severally and it seems there is no end in sight for you on this unfortunate route.

I will not waste my time addressing some of the issues you raised based on some mindsets you have, it is within your right to have them but you cannot force anyone to agree with them especially when facts do not favor them.

Anyone that posts wrong information in order to justify the killing of innocent Igbo people based on the actions of a few Igbo people in the Army (who organised a coup with participants from every region of the country at different levels even though 2 Igbos sons Ojukwu and Ironsi foiled the same coup) who did not have the mandate of the Igbos is a big fool and to expect others to correct such misinformation or outright lies all in the name of having a debate is another stupid belief.

Assuming these liars are making mistakes then why can't they look for facts or do some research before making categorical statements here while people like you continue to defend them because you support what they say no matter how wrong they are?

Maybe your were brought up to spend your whole life correcting people who lie against you and your people even if it means justifying the murder of your own people for things they did not in any way contribute to. I was not brought up that way and don't attempt to even advise me to tow that line please.

You see nothing wrong with ethnic or tribal motivated lies but see everything wrong with caustic words being used to address such liars.

As at the time of the coup in question both Nzeogwu and the finance minister were from the same region. A fact that none of you can change but will happily twist to mean other things.

ndu_chucks:
Your intellectual dishonesty is appalling. You were running arround that thread like a crazy market woman accusing me of lying even after I accepted the fact you pointed out. It is as clear as a whistle that your aim was to reduce Igbo complicity in the coup. That is your right, continue to do that at every opportunity you have - the truth will always be exposed.

Your accepting the fact I pointed out was not a condition for me to stop accusing you of being a liar because you tried to support the lie with another lie when challenged. You tried justifying your lie with "Mid West was deemed to be Eastern region at that time" before the facts overwhelmed you.

You simply had no choice as the lie was too embarrassing that not accepting the correction would have amounted to "forum suicide" so don't tyry to come across as someone who merely made a mistake.

You remain a liar who is also deceitful by using an Igbo name as a username even when you claim to be a Northerner. In fact, you repulse me, zero integrity and shameless.

With the way lies are still being told about what happened in the past I don't see a united Southern Nigeria in a long time and based on these lies I hope the unity some are craving for now never comes because you cannot build anything on lies. Enough of the lies. Let us support one Nigeria at all cost.

Katsumoto:
Ifeajuna was the leader of the coup. Nzeogwu was recruited at an advanced stage of the planning. Why is it that Igbo people claim Anioma Igbos as Igbo but always refer to Nzeogwu as a mid-westerner?

We have debated this issue several times.

Debating something several times does not prove that you have been proven right or wrong.

I have a lot of respect for but if you start twisting issues deliberately or out of ignorance I will respond to you the way you ought to be addressed.

Have I ever denied the fact that Nzeogwu was Igbo? Did you conveniently ignore the reason for my post which was a direct response to the comment by dayokanu that the Igbos killed someone from South South even when Nzeogwu came from the same area the person he was accused of killing came from - Mid West (there was nothing like South South then).

You either argue intelligently with an open mind or tow the line of some ethnic bigots here, the choice is yours.

ndu_chucks:
I may have been vindicated by this thread. I stated that Kaduna Chukwuma Nzeogwu was from the East in order to support the point that the Northerners believed that the 1966 coup was lead by an Igbo man, and in their minds, it was a Igbo coup.  Afam jumped all over the statement claiming that my statement was a blatant lie design to distort history.  Even after I accepted, for the purposes of the discussion, that Nzeogwu was not from the East, Afam continued to state that I told an intentional lie while continuing to ignore the main point I was trying to make.

It now turns out that fellow Igbos claim Nzeogwu is Igbo, exposing the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty in Afam's rants. Your statement that some Igbo people claim Nzeogwu  is from the mid-west just because they want to reduce Igbo complicity in the coup, is spot on. Wonders shall never end.

I hope Afam can dispute the claims of asha80 that Nzeogwu is Igbo to redeem himself.

Have I ever stated that Nzeogwu was not Igbo? Your stupidity knows no bounds at all.

To refresh your memory you told a lie that Nzeogwu was from the Eastern region and even when people corrected your lie you foolishly chipped in that as at that time the Mid West was deemed to be Eastern region! How silly can a thought process be?

In case the discussion is way beyond your assimilation level let me break it down for you again

Nzeogwu na Igbo man, na from present day Delta state hin come from. Dat time wey the first coup happen na Mid West dem dey call hin place no be Eastern region. Na why Biafra no include Mid West for the map as Biafra been dey represent the former Eastern region.

Anyone can translate the above into Hausa so that this clown can understand the facts as I now believe that something serious must be done in the area of education in the North if we must hope for any form of intelligent or intellectual discussion.

I am tired of people shamelessly displaying their ignorance on a public forum like this.

dayokanu:
^^^ Start from the coup masterminded by majorly Igbo Soldiers that elimnated the Premier of the west, North, Prime Minster(Northerner) , Finance Minister(South-South) but miraculously No eastern Politician was deemed as corrupt or worthy of elimination.

That is the root of triblism in this country

Thanks for your post but why did you now claim that the Finance minister was from the South South when indeed he was from the same region the leader of that coup came from - Mid Western region?

There was a Yoruba man amongst the coup plotters and if it was an Igbo coup then the likes of Ironsi and Ojukwu wouldn't have crushed the coup.

Any other questions?

Who is arguing about Jaja of Opobo being an Igbo man?

Katsumoto:
Why do some Igbo people continue to act like the Igbo were innocent bystanders in the events of the 60s. In my view, the Efik and Ibibio were the innocent bystanders who got caught in the cross-fire. If you want to tell the truth, then lay blame on all guilty parties.

And why must every thread degenerate into Igbo victimisation? You are not the only marginalised group/people in Nigeria.

1. Can you explain how Igbos were the guilty bystanders?

2. If other people are marginalized in Nigeria is it a crime for the Igbos to complain simply because other people chose not to?

Please provide answers to these questions instead of making blanket statements.

doyin13:
My argument is not for a breakup of the country. My argument is actually
for us to stop the instinctive tendency to divide the country into an imaginary
North and South.

There are states in the ''North'' that have lost and still have as much to lose
based on this mythical division. If we can get states especially the middle belt
states to the side of the ''south'', then we can constitutionally shape the country
that best serves our needs.

I agree with your points, they are indeed very valid but again this is what you get when we try to personalize issues or allow ethnicity color everything we do.

If we take away all forms of tribal sentiments, mindsets, anger or suspicions then you would understand that Ojukwu asked for and demanded for fairness and justice and these things are usually blind to ethnic groups because justice will favor a Northerner as much as it would favor a Southerner but what happened? For insisting on fair play and justice a 3 year civil war was fought millions of Easterners killed and today even Plateau State, the home state of Gowon is facing serious problems that I am sure he would never have envisaged in his mind considering what he stood for in the past.

We must move beyond the suspicions, accept responsibility of our actions and inactions and push for serious development as I believe that with honesty and open mindedness we can create a Nigeria that every single citizen will benefit from.

Must it be the students? In any case, I am not too comfortable with Nigerians living outside Nigeria talking about Nigerians living in Nigeria not doing enough because the fact remains that those living here are doing enough by not running away like others.

Even in your host countries there are still anomalies that you are still living with and none of you have carried placards or stormed the government houses of your host countries.

You guys should stop talking like you have done better or would do better if you were in Nigeria. Enough of these comments!

doyin13:
This current impasse has of course started rumblings about Northern obstinacy
and calls for Nigeria to divide on a North and South basis from so called ''southerners''.

I posit though this divide does not exist and as a figment of our imagination has led
to the defeat of progressives and their causes.

The North as one poster on another thread is not one monolith. We only need look
at the situation in Plateau for confirmation. Many other states in the North from largely
christian Taraba and others like Kogi, Benue and of course Plateau do not share the same
characteristics of what we regard as the typical North. That they coalesce with the North is
as much a result of Southerner's promotion or at least acquiescence in acknowledging a North
South divide as any geographical relationship.

I therefore suggest we desist from this North South rubbish. The states mentioned above
have lost as much from the hypercentral arrangement which exist to hold the nation backwards
as much as the typical Northern states.

The efforts of ''Southerners should be directed towards wooing them. Then we can achieve
democratically what Gideon Orkar tried to achieve through violent means.

I don't see any reason why breakup should come up at all. We must work together to keep Nigeria as one no matter what it takes.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Suddenly the terrorist nation is now extraordinarily important. The US and its hypocrisy is killing.

afemai:
Please you can crucify me if you like; I wish the civil war succeeded so we would not be faced with these cheats.

No need to crucify you because you are doing a good job at that already.

Unfortunately or fortunately the civil war ended and you are stuck with Igbos whether your childhood best friend was Igbo or not.

How are we sure that you were not the one that cheated him? All these one sided sermons do not make any sense as you could as well be lying big time.

deb:
Personally, I'm so fed up with these few animals running Nigeria like their family property. Let us kuku break sef abi what is
all these nonsense?

Break up ke? Why? One Nigeria till the end my friend.

I guess these guys are having technical issues with their servers. I hope they don't come back to tell us that Yar'adua brought their servers down, u no say everything for hia na news abi na conspiracy theory.