₦airaland Forum

elampiro:
Trevor in a low key FA cup fixture. Ibrahimovic in a friendly. I no know Falcao own. But you couldn't mention any from EPL. You see. Whereas we get the Le Tisser stuff every season.

Every season? For your mind. Anyway this was just an exercise in futility, nothing anyone can say was going to change your mind.

elampiro:
Sinclair FA cup 1997
Ibrahimovic Friendly a few years back

You see, different tournaments with almost 20 years apart. Low key complications.

But Rooney in a Manchester derby, in the EPL. It comes once in a blue moon. Forget your Tega and Segelu stories, bicycle kicks from direct crosses are not common. But long rage happen every time in training.

If you don't want Segelu stories then stop inundating us with stories of the goals you used to score. Abi do you have a copyright to telling stories we can't verify?

Dadehmola:
I cannot remember Le Tissier's goal but that Bergkamp own na die..

Afrodoc.....No be the one wey the guy received a pass with his back to goal (at the edge of the box), turned by flicking the ball past his marker (padè mì lègbè) and slotted home?

Rooney's goal was awesome too...

The fact that it was a match winner (few mins to full-time) in a derby of that magnitude probably makes it a bit more special

Yes that was the goal, I think the defender was Nikos Dabizas.

In terms of technique and execution Rooneys goal was good no doubt but there have been better. There was a time Shearer was just belting volleys from everywhere.
Rooneys became so famous because of the occasion, the timing and of course who it was that scored the goal

elampiro:
We see bicycle kicks that are inviting, then when one scores it, it's not a surprise. Even Rooney scored one last season, I think against Swansea. But that Rooney's overhead kick, with the height of the ball, no bouncing, no rebound, ball going away from him, tell me when you saw that?

Trevor Sinclair scored a more difficult one. Zlatan did. Falcao did, Hugo Sanchez made a living scoring goals like Rooneys once a month.

elampiro:
I don't know the way you guys look at it. May be because it is Rooney.

There are goals you see every week.

There are goals you see every season.

There are goals you are opportune to see in a life time.

The goals of Le Tisser, Henry, Bergkamp, even Giggs in FA cup, are goals you see every season. But Rooney's goal against West Ham is a goal our generation was privileged to see. The instinct, the technique and precision. It was never a ball calling for the legs. It was a head ball that was falling behind. Every other person would have left it since it didn't fall to scoring position. What did he do? He turned and converted a hopeless situation into the greatest EPL goal ever. A derby winner.

Zlatans bicycle kick against England is special, Trevor Sinclairs bicycle kick from OUTSIDE THE BOX for QPR is special. Both of these are truly special once in a blue moon kicks. Rodney's bicycle kick was the type Tega and Segelu used to score every week.... And they didn't have to shin theirs.

elampiro:
I have looked at almost all the goals again just now, they are normal good goals. Long range after may be beating a man. Rooney's goal against Newcastle could even stand some of them. Even Rooney's goal against West Ham. Even in Championship, or Africa league, we see all those goals every time.

But that of Rooney's against City is a goal in a zillion years. First time overhead strike of a high crossing into the box. Against a well fortified Manchester City.

I can say I have scored those goals from Le Tisser and some others in my local football, but I can't ever say I scored anything like that Rooney scored against City, or Ibrahimovic against England. These are goals from outer space.

What does that mean oga?
My friend Tega used to score bicycle kicks like Rooneys for fun but he never scored a goal like Le Tissiers or Bergkamps

elampiro:
I have looked at almost all the goals again just now, they are normal good goals. Long range after may be beating a man. Rooney's goal against Newcastle could even stand some of them. Even Rooney's goal against West Ham. Even in Championship, or Africa league, we see all those goals every time.

But that of Rooney's against City is a goal in a zillion years. First time overhead strike of a high crossing into the box. Against a well fortified Manchester City.

I can say I have scored those goals from Le Tisser and some others in my local football, but I can't ever say I scored anything like that Rooney scored against City, or Ibrahimovic against England. These are goals from outer space.

Lol
There was a goal Le Tissier used first touch control to lob himself while the ball was at his back, lobbed an oncoming defender with another touch, lobbed the 2nd oncoming defender with another touch before slotting it past the keeper.
So Rooneys kick was better than that goal?
And if you are talking about outer space goals Bergkamps goal against Newcastle is number 1 ahead of any Rooney goal.

Seems like Pep has planned this job very well. Gundogan,Aubameyang, who is next?

elampiro:
A clip of the goals was on the website. You view it before you vote just like we do while voting in United website.

That goal is unique.

A clip of old goals from a small club and watching goals live is not the same. If Matt Le Tissier had scored those goals for United or Arsenal there would be no contest. How is a shinned bicycle kick unique?

That is not even the issue , if it's about great goals we might as well recall Cantona and Bryan Robson.
The issue is that the club should strengthen this season without considering whose place would be in jeopardy. First thing is for JM to decide on his formation and buy the players that fit in, offload those that do not.

elampiro:
That is the undisputed EPL goal of all time. A high ball, ball in flight from afar was hit once with a scissors kick with such precision and it went into the net for a big Manchester derby winner.

THE GOAL WAS NOT SELECTED BUT VOTED. A CLIP OF ALL THE GOALS SHORTLISTED WAS MADE AVAILABLE. ABEG ABEG, DAT GOAL NA HEAVENLY MADE.

Matt Le Tissier scored at least 2 goals better than that and Bergkamp's goal against Newcastle was better than that. The fact that Rooney's goal was more recent and most of the people voting did not see the other goals LIVE gives Rooney the advantage.

Anyway I am not going to argue Rooney's merits or demerits with you, you never see reason in this particular matter.
I am not one of the Rooney haters ( I was on his side when Coogar brought up the Rooney vs Berbatov argument, and also felt he had more to offer than RVP) but I try to be fair and unbiased.

Rooney has underperformed based on his potential, natural ability and his earnings.....that is an indisputable fact.
However I am not one of those blaming him for most of United's problems in the last 2-3 years. The problem with Rooney now is that he is decent in multiple positions but not excellent in any ( a jack of all trades,master of none ). If we make the right buys Rooney won't be able to make the first 11 in JM's preferred 4-3-3.

That goal would struggle to make top 10 EPL goals of all time if an unbiased person does the assessment.
Not when Matt Le Tissier, Bergkamp, Henry etc once played in this league

MrTA:
Looks like Zlatan is signing. How do you guys feel about that.

It is a risky addition. It could turn out well or it could blow up in our faces .
Hopefully he is more of a RVP than a Falcao.
The good thing is that it is a free signing.
We still need another pacy attacking player preferably one that can play as a striker and RWF

RuuDie:
My mistake. Played in the final I should have said.

Dundee United play in the European Cup Final?
What year sir ?

RuuDie:
There is nothing "proud and smug" about building a brand based on an identity and trying to maintain it. Brands that have become institutions may go under radar but never out of business - Coca-cola, Microsoft, Real Madrid are just some examples.

With the bolded there, you may be referring to majority of the "post-1999" era UTD supporters.

What got Liverpool into a hole is far from what we are talking about now. The circumstances are far different - Liverpool never quite got the chance to leverage their iconic on-field status financially because the money hadn't really started flowing back then. Coupled with the fact that English sides were banned from European competitions at a time which coincided with the peak of Liverpool's dominance, they really were not making that much money.

You easily reeled out names several high profile players that UTD has signed over the years but how quickly does this come to a lot of people. Riddle me this, when you are at a viewing center, beer parlor or newspaper stand arguing or listening to an argument about UTD in reference to other clubs, do you ever hear UTD accused of "buying the league"!!? But the same line of attack is constantly being used against Chelsea, Man City etc. Psychology Baba...this is the myth that has been woven around UTD intentionally or otherwise!

Moyes may not have had a trophy-laden resume but was at least known for running a club on a shoe-string budget and was going to build a team on solid British base as did SAF if given time. I can categorically tell you that Fergie himself was a gamble by UTD because, at the time he was signed, he wasn't the most highest profile Scottish or British manager on the scene and yes, he also almost got fired too.

The major reason SAF was merely ALMOST fired and not DEFINITELY fired was because of his CV and his record of winning. There were doubts amongst the fans and even on the board. However with his record of trusting youth and of winning titles he was given more time.
Also at that point United was not the winning juggernaut that it became under SAF.
Moyes on the other hand inherited a winning juggernaut , regularly competing for titles . He had no title winning CV to back himself up, so already there were doubts amongst fans and on the board. He took them from title winners to 7th in one single season.
When a coach has a mediocre past, a catastrophic present, then what hope is there for his future?

You would have had half a point if Moyes went to his next job and became so successful, but he has since been sacked by a relatively smaller club already BEFORE LVG!

And what is the point of the Dundee United info sef?
That Dundee United manager with his winning record would have gotten more time than Moyes FACT.
Ferguson is not infallible. He is one of the greatest but he sold Stam when we needed him most, he let Pogba go for nothing. Moyes is just one of his mistakes

RuuDie:
Do you know there was a manager in that same Scotland that won the SPL and European cup with DUNDEE UNITED beating all the same teams you've quoted there? Na SAF select David Moyes by himself and nobody force am to, so no dey shout ontop my head abeg!

How many league titles did this manager win with Dundee United?
And please WHEN DID DUNDEE UNITED WIN THE EUROPEAN CUP?

We need to raid Dortmund and Atletico. Aubameyang,Griezmann,Koke,Reus(injury prone sha), Mkhitaryan are all potentially in the market.

In the 7 yrs during which Ferguson coached Aberdeen before coming to Man Utd he won the Scottish League 3 times and the Scottish FA Cup 4 times , breaking the Celtic/Rangers hegemony of almost 100years.
He also won the Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid on the way, before winning the European Super Cup.
ALL THESE HE HAD ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED BEFORE EVER COACHING UNITED.
That was why he was given the time he was given, he had proven time and time again that he was a winner.

Please do not compare SAF to Moyes again. They are both from Glasgow, the similarity stops there

RuuDie:
This is where you and many others do not get it... It is a not a love for Moyes per se or any one manager for that matter. Ask yourself, really think beyond the surface, why SAF opted for Moyes at the time when with his and United's influence, he could easily get a much higher profile manager?
The way I see it was all about keeping that "image" which attracted so many people (myself included) to the club. That "illusion" that UTD is a "common" club quite far removed from the opulence of a Milan, Madrid Munich or Barcelona. An institution that believed in "grafting" out success, not buying it. Do you think it is a coincidence that all through the history of United, there is rarely focus on the big-money, star signings the club makes? Granted, they are not as many as some other clubs but if you look closely, the perception of Man Utd is one of a club that makes stars not buy 'em. Which is not entirely true. The Moyes signing was keeping to that tradition and hedging the bets that in 2-3 seasons, the returns in silverware will come (notice the sync with SAF's own start). So the club wins in both ways. Baba, everything na psychology!

It is this kind of proud and smug mentality that got the once almighty Liverpool into the bottomless pit they are in now.
Thinking the way you have done it in the past is the superior way and the only way while the world is changing before your eyes.
United have always been a club that combined groomed youth players with expensive buys ; Denis law, Bryan Robson, andy Cole, seba veron and rio Ferdinand were all British transfer records.....and many others did not come cheap.
United's image which attracted so many people over the years was of success on the field achieved via high octane football.
Moyes had no history of success or playing that brand of football, he had 1 year to prove the doubters wrong.... And he failed woefully.
In any profession in life if you do not have the CV or records to back yourself up you better make sure you don't phuck up when you get to a new job. The case of Moyes is a life lesson for everybody.

RuuDie:
Go figure. Man Utd never became a TOP club under SAF by mimicking Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea or Bayern!

Your love for Moyes is baffling.
There is nothing Moyes did before , during or since his United tenure to show that he was the right choice for such a top club.
Ferguson had a winning reputation before coming to United, THAT was why he was given so much time.
LVG also had such a reputation and was given some time until he proved he was not the right man. Jose with his record of winning titles too would get more time than Moyes. That is the way life works.
In my line of work if a patient is in distress and a doctor who has never successfully intubated anyone before (Moyes) tries to intubate this patient, he would be given just 1 shot at it. If he fails he would be pushed aside. On the other hand if an experienced doctor who has successfully done it before (Fergie,LVG,Mourinho) tries and fails he would be given a 2nd or even 3rd chance to do it.........because he has the record to back himself up.
No name managers like Moyes have only one shot to shine at a big job

raumdeuter:
WHat was my agenda? That both managers be held to the same standard which some are now giving excuses on why they cant be most of the excuses reeks of hypocrisy

I will decide on whether they should be held to the same standards AFTER the summer acquisitions.
Spurs,Arsenal and Chelsea would have something to say about next season also.

AdeLaNa1:
Lol! U're only proving Doc's point.
Nobody knew Pep b4 he signed for Barca. Nobody knew Enrique b4 he came to Barca. What does that tell u??

Anyone who coaches Barca is coming in as an automatic winner.

That is why it is stressful debating with some of these guys. The guy was making my own point for me and didn't know it.

RuuDie:
People just funny sha... arguably two of the most high profile managers in the world, hired by two clubs in dire need of success - so what is the argument here!?

There shouldn't be but Dayo came with his agenda to create conflict lol.
When Pep was appointed by Bayansh Dayo was almost delirious with joy claiming that Bayansh would dominate in Europe and win multiple UCLs under him. We saw how that panned out.

Dadehmola:
FYI, Enrique isn't better than David Moyes!

Abeg, must Barca fans defend anybody affiliatiated to their club even when the records speak otherwise??

Before Enrique became Manager at your club, he was a nobody - how does this obvious truth change the fact that Barca is a successful club or some positive stuff like that?

Oh so he is a Barca fan, no wonder he just butted into the debate .
Barca fans on NL are more emotional than cerebral.

ollah1:
Remind me again what Pep won prior to his appointment at Barca

Exactly

ollah1:
Oga Relax when u are making ur comments. Enrique had an issue with their legend Totti. That made him lose the dressing room. We all know how player power is like. At Celta, he got them to a 9tb position, the same position Chelsea finished last season. What would you say about that? He turned them to a team that plays attractive football

In his first season at Barca, he won it all bar Spanish super cup and defeated heavy weights in all leagues from Cyprus, Holland, France, England, Germany, Italy in the UCL. It's not an easy feat no matter hw u wanna downplay it.

Having the very best players in your team doesn't equate to winning trophies talk more of winning all possible trophies.

Give respect to whom it's due

You are right. Remind me again what did he actually WIN before getting to Barca?

I am not making excuses for anyone cos I am not a JM apologist and would have preferred Pep from the start actually.
But my point is this: Minimum achievement for both of them is Top 4 and champs league. And the top 4 should be 1st or 2nd, at least be very competitive in the league.
Both teams are a bit crappy at the moment. But based on the additions to either team you can start to make projections for next season.
If Watford appointed Pep for next season, would any sane man expect him to win the league.

The ability of the manager is important but ultimately it is the quality of the players available that is paramount.
SO LET US WAIT FOR THE TEAMS TO TAKE SHAPE OVER THE SUMMER BEFORE MAKING PROJECTIONS

raumdeuter:
But he didnt get Sunderland, He got one of the heaviest spenders in Europe of the past 3 seasons. And he is paid more than any coach

Why would the heaviest spending club, pay 5M not to talk to anyone and a fat salary to a manager and we would be asking "What if he isnt allowed to spend"

He would be given money he would get some of what he wants, he wont get others No one would get 100% of what they wanted and they have to work with whatever they wanted

maybe Pep too would have wanted CRonaldo at his other clubs but didnt get them

Who said "what if he is not allowed to spend"?

Enrique that led Roma to a 7th place finish in the weakened Serie A , led Celta to 9th in La Liga is now winning trebles, quintuples and ogantables in the same La Liga. It seems it's nice to be coaching Messi, Neymar and Suarez instead of Marco Borriello and Dani Osvaldo

raumdeuter:
These excuses are sounding like what Arsenal fans give and you join others to laugh at them
We dont have enough money to spend, we are depending on young players, we dont have enough world clas players
I never knew a day wuld come these same excuses would be used for Mourinho

The moot point is the fact that world class players in a team increase the probability of success.
The underhand tactic is projecting what a manager would do without waiting to find out what players he has at his disposal.

If it was Sunderland that appointed Mourinho would you still have held him to the same expectations you are making now he is in charge of United?

raumdeuter:
Thats a moot point. No club except maybe Real Madrid gets everyone they wanted

Pep wanted Neymar at Bayern he got Gotze instead. Man City wanted Gotze they didnt get him.

No coach gets everyone he wants aside Mourinho of 2005 when they had a money monopoly.

Both coaches would get some they want and would miss some, They are both expected to use whatever is at their disposal

Man Utd has outspent City recently and have a bottomless pocket too and are also desperate to be back among the elites

All these excuse all are giving is hilarious. Doctor I didnt remember you giving Pep this much excuse when we were discussing his tenure at Bayern despite not having all the players he wanted

I am not giving excuses for anyone. Go back and check our debate on Pep.
I have always maintained that the quality of players you have is number 1, the quality of coaching comes after that.
That is why I asked you the question about Pep coaching the bottom club and that club's coach in charge of Bayern.
The quality of players is the most important.

And I don't know why you mentioned the "moot" point since you were the on that asserted that coaches get the players they go for, now you are coming back to say they sometimes miss out on targets. You seem to be arguing with yourself on that one.

raumdeuter:
That would mean thats all he needs to win. Like he did at porto.

When porto won, they didnt have the most World class players in Europe

How come we are suddenly coming up with all sorts of "WHAT IF's" that are mostly applicable to Mourinho but not for other coaches

Most of you call Wenger a failure, you dont factor all these number of world class players, transfer budgets etc when you say that do you?

Or how many World class players and transfer fee have wenger spent compared to Mourinho for everyone to unanimously say Wenger is better

All the excuses that were not tenable for Wenger and other coaches are suddenly thrown up for Jose

I have never been a Mourinho apologist but Wetin concern Wenger with this one.
Wenger has never won a European trophy of any sort. Mourinho has 3, Pep has 3, Fergie has 3
When Wenger wins 1 just 1 we can talk about him. Wenger is a trainer not a manager