₦airaland Forum

olabode89:
This Doc your post just dey crack me up like craze!

You sha wan admit person for ICU.

How else person go make money? No be by treating malaria upandan o! Surest way na through surgery, other procedures or ICU billing.

Dadehmola and Dayo are 2 of my guys on this forum but na so so fight between them. At least today I go collect treatment fee from either or both of them.
And this should be between Ibime and Dayo

raumdeuter:
Is it big enough to take someone of Ibime massive size

I was here minding my business when he invited me to murder him

don't worry we have bariatric beds so no matter the size from Ikeregbe or King Pago to Yokozuna we can manage the patient

There is only 1 more space in the ICU o, so nobody should interfere between these 2 heavyweights

Somebori calling my name, any patients here?

Renato Sanches would be another Fat Anderson.
These Portuguese league clubs are swindlers Mangala,Otamendi..... Remember Willy Carvalho?

raumdeuter:
Over their whole career Etoo was better but as at 2004 when Etoo was in Mallorca, there was no way he was better than Drogba who dragged Marseille to the UEFA cup final

The crux of the issue is was 2004-2007 Chelsea not the favourite to win the league

It's a minor argument anyway but it was that same Mallorca that Etoo led to rod Madrid I think 5-1 dragging the reputation of Roberts Carlos and Helguera in the mud. At that point Etoo was the better striker already, he was banging in goals.

Anyway this has not been about Mou vs Pep to me so I don't see how Chelsea come into it.

The question is how is it that confirmed failures get to the barca job and suddenly become winners and then leave the barca job and become confirmed losers again and you want us to think it is not mainly about the players.
If losers could win titles with barca imagine what a good or great manager would do. Oh wait u don't have to imagine , Pep already showed you what would happen.

And as at 2004 Etoo was better and over their whole careers I would give Etoo d edge sef

raumdeuter:
How are Samuel Etoo Torres better?

I mean as at 2004 they were arguably better. Any how you cut it he does not enter the top 5 strikers as at 2004
Ronaldo,Ruud,Henry,Sheva and Makaay were better as at 2004.....u can't argue that

Then you add Samuel Etoo, Fernando Torres, Totti. DD might just squeeze into top 10

raumdeuter:
You mean a striker who was bought for over 25M by Chelsea in 2004. Harry Kane has also had one or 2 seasons. if you take out messi and Ronaldo(WHo are freaks of nature), Would he be or not be among the top 5 strikers in Europe?

As at 2004 better strikers than Drogba off the top of my head included Ronaldo, Shevchenko, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Roy Makaay, Thierry Henry.
If I think longer more names will crop up

sebod:
While those that came to Barca after Pep and won tittles could be termed any name, the guy that laid the foundation to make things easy for them must be a genius. He got the best out of the guys, built a lasting legacy that became the benchmark of footie while those that came after him have not been able to replicate his feat.

It seems you are unaware that Rijkaard one of the greatest failures of them was there before Pep. If you want to talk about foundation he did the laying

raumdeuter:
You are the one trying your best to dumb down this discussion

Before Chelsea, Drogba was Ligue 1 player of the year, Onze Dor(A French magazine) winner of 2004 and scored 30 goals in the season

Was Ferreira too unknown? Robben who Man utd and Chelsea fought over was unknown, Cech best keeper of French league unknown

Bros you are approaching the level of some people wey we no suppose mention abi shey na Friday night whiskey ni?

Depending on how far down you are willing to go. In 2004 after 1 or 2 good seasons in football drogba was surely not top 5 amongst strikers in Europe

Nihilist:
My amiable doctor.

I wish I could send you a crate of Pink Lady and alligator pepper.

So succinct.

I have started abstaining from alcohol, I won't mind a spicy lady wearing pink negligee though

sebod:
Man U were clearly the favourite as the defending champions. They had a full squad as against a Barca team that had Iniesta playing on injection, and have to improvise with Sylvinho and Puyol playing as the full backs.

I am a Man Utd fan and I remember how tensed I was that day. I was more confident in in 99 and 08, in 2011 I was relaxed cos I knew we would lose

Let me simplify Nihilist point.
All these FAILURES as managers come to Barca and suddenly start winning titles and they go elsewhere and continue as failures
This makes us believe that you do not have to be a genius to be extra successful in Barca. U only have to be good or great.
IF FAILURES CAN BECOME SUCCESSFUL IN BARCA THEN ANYONE CAN

raumdeuter:
Who were the difference between 08 and 09

Out Ronaldinho Zambrotaa Deco Emilson Oleguer

In Hleb Pique, Caceres, Dani Alves and Seydou keita

Those were the ttransfers made others were players already there or youth team players

Aside this, The difference between the 08 squad who finished 18 points behind and the 09 squad who won the league with 9 points and the treble was Pep Guardiola

He was replacing a mediocre coach in Rijkaard.
Actually the fact that Rijkaard (an otondo who was sacked after relegating Sparta for the first time in its history, sacked by Saudi Arabia after losing to Iraq and Kuwait, sacked after failing at Galatasaray) was able to go to multiple semi finals and even win the champs league with Barca tells you about the quality of players Barca has had for the last 10yrs
In which other clubs have Tata Martino, Luis Enrique, Tito Villanova or Frank Rikaard succeeded as managers?

Dayo by the time Barca faced us they had scored 105 goals in the league alone and you want to lie to the younglings here that they were underdogs?
Your 419 no be here

raumdeuter:
2008 Barca had Ronaldinho and Deco which 2009 didn't rather they got replacements who were seen as inferior to them
Barca of 2008 finished 3rd behind Villareal

Ronaldinho was finished and a non factor in 2008.
And Barca of 2008 finishing 3rd shows that the team was not as good as the 2009 team esp cos the 2009 team had already being crowned champions of Spain with weeks to spare by the time they faced us.

raumdeuter:
My point is it takes a genius to devise a play pattern that is so dominant that people talk about it for ages.

Pep's Barca is the standard for all football teams

Inter won the CL, no one except Inter fans remember anything about them and how they play, Chelsea won I am sure no one wants to play like they did to win.

If a BMW Audi Mercedes are in a race what would determine the winner? The quality of the driver I presume

Going into the 2009 season, No one would rate barca as top seed to win most likely they might not even be top 5. vs Fergie's Man Utd they wouldnt be overwhelming favourites to win and its not like Fergie is a chump coaching Hannover either

You can tell this to those too young to remember 2009 Dayo.
That 2008 semi final was so tight and we had to play nearly perfect football to scrape through, that Barca team in 09 was surely top 5 and I was full of trepidation before the final

afrodoc2:
Wetin be all this VMAs wey Nihilist and A40 dey talk? Abeg make una no cause confusion here o

To the argument, Pep is a very good coach but his achievements have led to him being vastly overrated .
If you give Alex Ferguson or Ottmar Hitzfeld or the young Arrigo Sacchi that Barca team (with Messi,Xavi,Iniesta and Busquets all together and all at their peaks supported at different times by Zlatan,Henry,Ronaldinho and Etoo) those other coaches would have done the same or even more. Just my personal opinion

This was my first post on the issue....notice I didn't say Sam allardyce or Sunday oliseh

raumdeuter:
Thats not what you are saying.

You are saying a coach doesn't matter and Barcelona would have dominated regardless, I am saying without the coach that Barcelona team wont be what they are today. Player quality can be there and wont achieve anything without a coach. Else why did Moyes end trophyless with the same fergie team

Just like a BMW vs a Mercedes would be determined by who is the better driver

Why did Capello and Sacchi and Luis Enrique struggle without stars ?

raumdeuter:
Thats not what you are saying.

You are saying a coach doesn't matter and Barcelona would have dominated regardless, I am saying without the coach that Barcelona team wont be what they are today. Player quality can be there and wont achieve anything without a coach. Else why did Moyes end trophyless with the same fergie team

Just like a BMW vs a Mercedes would be determined by who is the better driver

I mentioned Sacchi, Fergie and Hitzfeldt ..... I think u r mixing my posts with nihilists posts.
My point has been that a good to great coach and not necessarily a genius would have done same or better.

Eruditor:
With the speed of typing some ideas will be dropped on the way. I was referring to the likes of Riquelme, Pablo Aimar, Carlos Tevez, Ariel Ortega, Aguero, Di Alessandro etc and any other argetine player dubbed the new Maradona.

And in immortal words of the departed Coogar " did u see this in your water filled calabash"
We will never know, same way nobody knew for sure that Ronaldo would be the one to blow out of all the new Figos that Portugal was producing.

raumdeuter:
Most likely Bayern would finish higher because the difference in talent between Bayern and Hannover cant be outweighed by the difference if there exists any between Pep and Stendel

A coach cant win alone, he needs players and players are the most important thing

Its like talking about a driver and a car, Can Schumaker drive a Peugeot 404 to beat me when I am driving a Ferrari? So can we say driving skills doesnt matter or is overrated?

Exactly like in driving the quality of the car is the most important just like the players before the driver/coach

Exactly what I was saying and you were arguing
Player quality is more important and more crucial to success than manager quality

raumdeuter:
For 2 of those 4 seasons Xavi was still in midfield, For 2 of those 4 seasons Iniesta was still in his twenties, for two of those 4 seasons Messi still played his favoured position in the middle

Pep made those talents what they became, Without Pep most of those talents would have been wasted. Busquets wouldnt be played because he wasnt physical enough, Xavi was actually on his way out of Barca before pep and Messi would have been a great winger who scores 20 plus goals per season

Xavi was finished especially by that last season. When Pep replicates his performance elsewhere I will give him full props

I see u sidestepped the issue of players vs coaches and how arrigo Sacchi and Capello fumbled when they had lesser talent.

Eruditor:
Messi was going to be like every other Argentine player with hype and talent. David Beckham had once finished top 3 in Ballon d'or before, he didn't go on to win any. Micheal Owen didn't win 4 more others.

Messi was a raw talent, but nobody raised him to the level of the football pantheon until he came across Pep.

Developing another Messi is not the only variable that should judge Pep's genius. Even players like Mandzukic that didn't like his style still enjoyed his most prolific era under Pep. Lewa, great as he has been has 46 goals in all competitions for club and country, he hadn't done this before Pep. Müller is being raised into the top players in the world. His prolific season is still under Pep's management.

Every other Argentine with hype and talent? Like Di Stefano, Kempes,Redondo and Maradona?
Let's not forget Ronaldo to is scoring goals at an alarming rate. There are several reasons why those 2 became so prolific and no 1 is their talent.......but their several other factors too

Dayo if next season Pep went to manage Hannover 96 and Hannover's manager Stendel was to coach Bayern who do you think would finish higher?

raumdeuter:
We can also see that Messis stats have dropped from Pep years and he is 28 currently.

Before Pe he was under 21, Pep 21-25, After Pep 25-28

25 to 28 is a typical strikers peak BTW

Xavi is not in the midfield anymore, Iniesta is in his 30s, Messi lost a lil bit of his energy and form, Messi has been moved to the right side of attack. Those stats have dropped but only slightly .
But all these are not really important. I have commended Pep on moving Messi inwards and of course he helped the team achieve its potential but he was playing with a loaded deck with that amount of talent

raumdeuter:
Having great players doesnt equate to having a great team. That is why Moyes failed with the same players Fergie won with 12months earlier

If Barca had got another manager in 2008 instead of Pep, no one would be talking about a great Barcelona side

Or are you trying to say a manager doesnt matter its the quality of players that do? I would think a Man Utd fan and EPl fan would have learnt better given where Man utd with their stars are currently.

Quality of players first then managers second.

That is why Arrigo sacchi with those great Milan players won the serie A title and back to back European cups but when those greats left he led Milan to 11th in the league,lead Atletico Madrid to 13th and was sacked by Parma for rubbishy results

That is why Capello in his first Milan stint was winning serie a titles and playing back to back to back Champs league finals but in his second stint with Ibrahim Ba and other immensely "otu" players could only finish 10th in the same league

Those stats are slightly misleading. We give Pep the credit for moving Messi inside from his RWF position but let us not forget that
MESSI BEFORE PEP WAS FROM AGE 17 TO 21 YEARS OF AGE.....practically every footballer's statistics and performance improves greatly as they get into their 20s

Another thing I want to state here. I have been telling my friends for months now that this Barca team is inferior to Pep's Barca team.