₦airaland Forum

Logicboy03: Points to consider

1) If christians and religious peeps were truly challenging their religious leaders, many of these evils would have been stopped or severely redced. Take for instance; Oyedepo's slap. Would Oyedepo get away with this if he didnt have numerous supporters?

2) As a practicing christian, you will support one of the evil's done in Yaweh's name or christianity- one way or the other. "A fish in water can not explain the realities of living on land".

Well at least d fish understands d reality of living in waters than d dog.

Enigma: You may find this post and others following interesting --- especially what the American Supreme Court and Court of Appeal think on whether atheism is a religion or not.

I can yet point you to other posts and threads if necessary.

Well, they mit be thinking it, i m not thinking it, i know it is. So if anyone think otherwise d person can give me a simple definition/meaning of ATHEISM.

honeychild: So, my question to nairaland atheists is: Why do you
think it is a necessary part of being atheist to insult every one who is not and to be gratuitously crude, vulgar and obnoxious?

Simply a defensive trick common among them. they ar extensively taught on two tricks in their foundation classes. Cunning Abuse is one of it, especially whn they felt oppressed before.

plaetton: Dont mind them. I have never read Dawkins book. lnfact, it is probably only in the last year or so that I started hearing of Dawkins.
I particulalyr pay no attention to Dawkins because Dawkins simply reiterate what every atheist already knows or thought about.

It is the blind faith goddists that rely on Daddy GO-ism for hand-holding and herding. And the reason they need to be herded like cattle and hand-held is because blind faith religion is about fears and doubts.

I hav never read Pastor so soo so book but his belief as described in his books aligned wit wat i believe (common denominator), infact he is well known for along time and highly spoken of in ds belief of mine (leadership).

Evangelist plaetton, stop denying ur brother, leader and prophet at least u shared most belief system.

plaetton: With all due respect, only a very very silly slowpoke( and there many many) thinks that atheism is a religion.
Infact, that notion, it itself, is clear enough evidence that blind faith, schizophrenia , and low IQ have a common denominator.

Can i ask u wat atheism is, Mr High IQ and wat religion is?

plaetton: @op
Religion doesn't do as much damage, destruction, violence and fraud in the UK as it does in Nigeria.
That explains why Nigerian atheists are much more Angry than would be a European atheist.
We see daily the horrors of religious irrationaliy as it plays out.
We simply can't afford to look away any longer.
Religious irrationality must always be vigorously challenged, mocked and embarrassed.

And wat about ur own believe and religion?

ooman: Why design is not a plausible theory for the origin of our existence, nor the reason for the compulsory existence of a god:

The dysteleological argument or argument from poor design is an argument against the existence of God, specifically against the existence of a creator God (in the sense of a God that directly created all species of life). It is based on the following chain of reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are sub-optimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.


The argument is structured as a basic Modus tollens: if "creation" contains many defects, then design is not a plausible theory for the origin of our existence. It is most commonly used in a weaker way, however: not with the aim of disproving the existence of God, but rather as a reductio ad absurdum of the well-known argument from design, which runs as follows:

Living things are too well-designed to have originated by chance.
Therefore, life must have been created by an intelligent creator.
This creator is God.

"Poor design" is consistent with the predictions of the scientific theory of evolution by means of natural selection. This predicts that features that were evolved for certain uses, are then reused or co-opted for different uses, or abandoned altogether; and that suboptimal state is due to the inability of the hereditary mechanism to eliminate the particular vestiges of the evolutionary process.

In terms of a fitness landscape, natural selection will always push "up the hill", but a species cannot normally get from a lower peak to a higher peak without first going through a valley.

The argument from poor design is one of the arguments that was used by Charles Darwin; modern proponents have included Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Dawkins. They argue that such features can be explained as a consequence of the gradual, cumulative nature of the evolutionary process. Theistic evolutionists generally reject the argument from design, but do still maintain belief in the existence of God.


Source

U just roam about trying to encourage urself. Abi? Evangelist ooman

ooman: Yo are probably right by your analysis, Dawkins, and indeed all atheists aren't as aggressive as we seem to give the impression, but you have to understand that most xtians and other god worshipers are indeed dumb in their analysis too.

Outside nairaland, I am a gentleman, but in here, I have to treat people with ironhand to force logic into your head.

Atheism is a peaceful, in fact, the most peaceful way of life.

Understanding there is no god changes everything for you, you become newly born into a perfect and complete life.

peace out.

Atheist Evangelist ooman,
I m surprise u agreed wit d Op in ur 1st statement and then made a blunder again in ur last statement. i tot d Op made it clear that in ur holybook ur Prophet said God is "not technically disprovable but is very improbable". (inherent confusion in statement sha). Hmmm, truly logical.

honeychild: So I finally bit the bullet and bought what seems to be the "Holy Book" of nairaland atheists: Richard Dawkins' "The God delusion".
.
I have only read up to the 4th chapter so far, but I must say reading it is a pleasant surprise. Judging by the obnoxious and gratuitous insults spewed on this board by his more prominent disciples- I was expecting to be assaulted on each page with insults to God and of course me for being so unintelligent as to have faith.

On the contrary, what I find is that the eminent scientist is wise enough to know that he doesn't know everything. Logicboy and Ooman please take note: the default atheist position is not "There is no God". But "God, though not technically disprovable, is very very improbable indeed. "

I am also highly impressed with his willingness to concede when he has made a mistake. For instance, I had earlier watched a debate he had with John Lennox in which he was taken to tax for stating in an earlier edition that there is controversy amongst historians about whether or not Jesus really lived. He was quick to acknowledge that he was wrong, and I noticed that in this edition he makes the statement "although Jesus probably existed....."

So, my question to nairaland atheists is: Why do you think it is a necessary part of being atheist to insult every one who is not and to be gratuitously crude, vulgar and obnoxious?

Dont mind them.
Their High Priest (Charles Darwin) and thr present major Prophet/Apostle (Richard Dawkins) know better. They ar still taking foundation classes, clarity will dawn on them later.

horhizah: Fellow landers, at what age does a person takes responsibilities for His or her actions?

Op, ur title and d question asked in d body of post ar two diff thing.

Title: At wat age does God record a person's sin? Actually, God doesnt do dt.

Op Body: At what age does a person takes responsibilities for His or her actions? Since ur "accepted action to God" is dependent on accepting Christ, i will say u r responsible from d day u can clearly understand, intelligently process and make independent decisions on information passed to u.

Usually its about maturity of d fellow not d person's age.

patrickdarlins: without hollines...no man can see d lord...heheheheh...ponder on dat...we are striving to c d fada which is in heaven...so...holines counts.....our riteousnes is like a filty rag bfore him oooo....what we need is grace....grace...nothing but grace...

Ar u not contradicting urself? Just asking.

veeco vee: So u are encouraging them to just confess and go on living anyhow they like? My brother, confession is the first step into christianity. It's only confessing CHRIST that makes u a true CHRISTIAN. Not all christians would make it to heaven however, cause the Bible says "he (Christ) will ask some to depart that he knows them not. The journey to heaven starts with the confession, next you should live peacably with all man and you should also be holy... the Bible says without holiness, no one will see the Lord.

Our last hope is to see the Lord and not to be saved. Cause not all that are saved 'll see the Lord

God bless u

Bro wat is all ds?

[quote author=lollar j ]This is very risky doctrine.
I for one know that God is not a God of numbers. Several are landing in hell every minute, so many that hell itself is expanding to accommodate them.

Heaven on the other hand is almost vacant.
God wants only the best of human beings and not the most.[/quote]Madam, hav u been thr to kno its vacant? or u r a spiritual usher for heaven?

Trippledots: The one who came to show you the way out said himself "Straight is the way that leadeth to life, and few there be that findeth it..." I wonder since when straight now translates to EASY. God help us.

well, going by ur analogy i can conclude dt whn it is straight then it is very easy. Infact i can see d way clearly.

doc on air: The poster of this article got it wrong from the topic to the last letter.the bible never said the kingdom of heaven is simple.it suffereth violence nd d violent taketh it by force.the kingdom of Heaven is not meat and drink.it is easy 4 a camel to pass through a needle dan 4 d rich man to make heaven.narrow is d way that leads to heaven.what you need is simply d fruit of d spirit.God bless.

Pls, i will appreciate if u can spend more time doing diligent study of d Word. Sure d scriptures u quoted will become clearer.

Joagbaje: Galatians 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

We are followers of abrahamic faith. Who is the father of faith. If we are children abraham we ought to follow ABRAHAM faith.

I'm impressed so far from recent feedback that many posters and tithers have deeper understanding of these things better now.


. . . To be continued in a moment.

Good morning bro, u don start again o. Which one b eternal principles again. u dey collect tithe too? U and ur other brother.
Actually ds seems to b a trick, bringing TITHES AND OFFERING together in d same post. Dt can b deceptive to most hearers in our churches today who cant seperate GIVING FROM TITHING.

And d verses u quoted actually show more reasons why Christian shouldnt tithe.

Akinshipe: Unreasonable duration of services.....

Bro, wat is ur defination of Unreasonable duration of services. Can u quantify dt say lik how many minutes?

[quote author=Robin.steve]Good day Brother, speaking in tongues is not compulsory for Christians. Remember my advice to you earlier. Do not get involved in arguments that do not add to your salvation.

Speaking in tongues, prophecy etc are all gifts that the Lord willingly chooses to give to each one according to His purpose not ours. Remember to focus on the most important..

1 Corinthians 12
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.And yet I will show you the most excellent way.

The next chapter is a lesson for all of us: Learn to love for that's all you need to be Christian.

u are really in d spirit dude. Tnx 4 d correction[/quote]Hmmm bro, actually, u dont become a christian by loving, u r first a christian wit love birth in ur heart dts why u can love. Wat love can a man outside Christ really have? Nothing.
2ndly we ar to earnestly desire spiritual gifts, dt include speakin in tongues. Tanx

Psalmuelh2o: I wonder some churches will b on a single prayer for 15mins,does dat means there prayer will b answered? Where those that ar praying dat same prayer for 2mins have sometin to show........................wat's d longest minutes u av spent on prayer in your church,and hope u ar seeing d result?

Longest in my church: 24hrs
Longest on a "prayer point": 5hrs
Massive results in season and out of season.
Hop i answered u.

iyes: What they call "speaking in tongue" in new age Nigerian pentecostal churches today is nothing but fraud.

I once attended a congregation where they made it a compulsory evidence and proof that one was "born again". It promptly became (and it still is) a fad. Anyone who didn't (and doesn't) "speak in tongue" was (is) not cool, and did (does) not belong.

The result was (and still is) that blabbing and gibberishing became (and still is) the in thing. And so members get pushed to become desperate to start faking and blab jargons. And to avoid embarrassment, many just copy and paste each other, or the pastors' way of "speaking in tongue"

However, as I did not see a reason why I should attempt to deceive God, besides, I desired better gifts that, I remained the odd man. I guess the pastor was uncomfortable with my stand, and so decided to help. That was when he arranged for me to join their "tongue speaking training class"

Wow! it was an eye-catching and unforgettable experience. If not that they had assumed that I was then a full member, they probably would not have let me into the secret. That's right, "tongue speaking training class" it was!!! There I met some new members and older ones who had just started to speak in tongue in the cingregation doing their practices, as the pastors and some elders mentored one person at a time, in repeat-after-me sessions.

I was asked to do same, but I refused, and I told my "teacher" that he was not Holy Spirit, which the Bible says will teach us! He complained to the senior pastor, the head of the school, and I remained adamant, and afterwards asked to go out and excused them.

From that moment on, our relationship became frosty, and I knew my days in the congregation was numbered. Eventually, I left, labelled a rebel.

Ever since then, I have since known why all members of same congregations "speak alike" in tongue. But the question that comes to my mind is that, why should people desire what has no beneficial value - especially to others, but only earns the speaker psychological benefit in form of respect?

The Bible makes it very clear that on the day of pentecost, when the christians started speaking in tongues, other people and strangers who heard them understood their different dialects and native tongues and languages, which the speakers did not speak or understood before Holy Spirit descended on them. What this tells me is that they spoke many foreign languages they they themselves did not understand, but which the natives and owners of such languages did decipher clearly.

Compare that to Nigerian "speaking in tongue" of today, and check for yourself; who is fooling whom?

Bros, i believe u hav a good heart towards d gift of God.

1st i ll lik 2point out dt its really sad u experienced such humanly taught "speaking in tongue" among brethen; many things can happen when d our Faith, teachings and doctrines dont rest on d Power of God by His Spirit.

2ndly, D experience u described above (not doubting u) may not b enough to justify ur 1st statement dt: What they call "speaking in tongue" in new age Nigerian pentecostal churches today is nothing but fraud. Dts too broad to b fixed on a single experience wit one assembly.Its lik witnessing a "forged miracle", then we say "miracles dont happen, every miracle is a fake/lie". or "saying because toyota produced a car wit bad brake in a particular year then all toyota car brakes is a joke".

D existence of a fake is not a proof of d non existence of d original. Infact most times d existence of fake shows dt original dey. Speaking in tongues is a reality of d Newbirth and its given to all believers. To give is one tin, to reciev is another.

Wonder why many leaders believed d lie dt d church cannot survive without tithes.

Goshen360: First, I believe you start out with good intension but I took time to understand what you saying. I understand what you said out of good heart and I also understand what you said based on ignorance and what you said based on religion and what you said based on 'follow-follow' mentality and what you said based on emotion.

The above I agree with you not calling them all names but that is not to say they cannot be spoken against or called out when they teach what is not sound doctrine. Also, you must understand not everyone of us will address issues with the same level. Please, let this understand be in you.



Now, this is the issue of religious sentiments and churchianity. Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many walk in it. I know you might want to read the religious mind into that text but it is what it is - many people will be doing what seems to be right but that God never approved. The fact that many Nigeria churches are doing it doesn't make it right.

The Lord said, for sometime you won't see me and after some time, you will see me again. These are the days we're are seeing the Jesus-kind of Christians. People who will not come to Christ because they want blessings, people who are challenge any religious teachings going on before, just like Jesus wiped the thieves in the temple. People who focus on Christ without mixing Judaism. These are all what Nigeria religious church is all about. But the good news is, there remain a remnant according to election of Grace.

You just said no matter the fight, it is an exercise in futility. You failed to understand the awakening is just beginning. First, by myself, I have delivered one RCCG pastor that used to be and is still my mentor. I discussed with him, calling him from the States here and as I began to delve into the word, he knew I was saying the truth. I told him to go study the subject of tithe again. Lo and behold, he called me back and said I was right. This might be a shocker to you - he resigned from RCCG and I wasn't the one that instructed him to resign.

Again, I'm believing God to start a teaching ministry in Nigeria and hope you will be alive to here of one brother Godwin (my real name) some day in the future. All false teachings (including tithe) going on before shall be dismantled. All Judaism shall be removed out of Christianity and the reality of the New Covenant in the finished works will be presented. I will not collect tithe directly or indirectly because ministry as the Lord is teaching me, is to care for the flock of God not collecting from them and it's a big responsibility. Ministry had been hijacked by men who are Judaizer but thinking they are practicing Christianity. If it is not Christ-like, it is not Christianity!!!



Very simple - Because it negates the Grace of Christ, the message of the Cross and the Apostolic doctrine.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Act 2:42

You can't just conclude it is waste of time or exercise in futility, there is a great revival going on right now and knowledge is increasing. Wait a minute, what do you think when Christ said "in the last days, there will be many false Christ and they shall deceive many. . . " You think these false Christ will call themselves Christ? Just like Christ wiped the thieves out of the temple, we will continue these fight and awareness and in time to come, these false teachings to Christians will spread and apparently, those in business will be put out of business.



Lemme tell you what you don't understand. We present the truth as it is concerning tithe and tell whoever we teaching not to take our words for it but they should go, like the Bereans and study every where the tithe and tithing was ever taught in scripture and then we always get result except for those whose mind are religiously blinded because they exalted the words of their pastors more than the word of God. They can't believe their man of God can be lying to them for years. However, many Christians are too lazy to do study for themselves. The pastor is their bible study and they were indoctrinated to believe only men of God have 'special revelation' on God's word.

When someone want to build a house, the first thing is foundation. These men of God have laid foundation for continuous collection of tithe by mixing Judaism with Christianity. They have lifted what was written to Israel as what was written to the Church. Church people are confused, not knowing there left to right. They have created fear in the heart of people but lo and behold, my bible tells me, perfect love of God cast out fear. They have laid foundation in such a way that, they will continue to have customers coming to them for deliverance and visions and special messages\revelation etc which will in turn necessitate seed offerings and 'sow into the anointing' or 'point of contact' nonsense.

^ But, there's a remnant that have gone and be with the Lord and we have found of the tricks of the devil perpetrated by his minister calling themselves ministers of Christ. We have found the lies of the devil used by men on the pulpit to put God's children in bondage. Deliverance is here for God's people and do not think deliverance means casting out devils from a Christians but it means, accepting what had been done, what Christ had done by the One time offering of His blood.

Glory to God.



We have listened to you pro-tithe. What are your teaching? Tithing pre-date the law. You don't dispute that. From the pulpit, e.g Pastor E.A. Adeboye, returns to Malachi and threatens worshipers with curse of devourer? Can you honestly tell us he is preaching tithe that pre-dated the law? Pastor E.A. Adeboye instructed all parishes there will be no ordination or marriage conducted for non-tithers. Lemme tell you the truth in my heart today, I lost respect for him when I heard\read that. That's outright UN-APOSTOLIC!!!

2. Even Bidam your tithe brother agrees that Malachi was written to nation of Israel and the priest then but what do we see on the pulpit, pastors on the pulpit will quote out of context and deceive many to part weekly with their money every Sunday. This is also UN-APOSTOLIC!!!

3. I once asked someone, if I tithe ONCE like Abraham,can it be said that I am a tithe. Guess what, the person said, YES!!! I'm a tither. Why then should we be labeled anti-tithe if we, most against tithing for Christians had tithed more than ONCE unlike Abraham? Abraham wasn't obeying yearly commandment of tithe as commanded under the law of Moses, hence, the once. Many of us had tithed more than once, If God is to judge us or reward us based on more than once act, we should be more blessed than Abraham or what do you think?

4. Abraham did animal sacrifice before the law, should we, Christians also follow this example today? Abraham slept with house maid, should we do that? Abraham went to war, should we do that? Abraham used flesh to help God, should we do that?

5. Abraham's tithing of spoils from the war' is never included as content of tithe under the law. Hence, it is not a continuation or an extension of Abraham's tithe officially commanded in the law. Other things mentioned above that Abraham did were all addressed under the law but items from war were never accepted or included as tithable items under the law. So, why the confusion?

6. Abraham's tithing as he was operate under the 'covenant of promise' then. The covenant of the law (by works, men trying to do something for God instead of God doing some for men) came and everything changed. The law was given so that men will come to the end of his self efforts.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. Romans 4:2



You're simply using same tactics as these men of God we talking about. How do you know people will not come here anymore? Through this forum alone, many had been released from the yoke of men and bondage of the law of tithing. I have not tithed for many years, I have a good job, good benefits and pay and yet, I'm yet to see any 'devourer' in my life. Without boasting, I'm far better than many tithers in Nigeria. I know some religious mind will say I'm boasting but far from it - I'm saying what I am today is all by God's undeserved favour on me. I do not tithe but I'm a giver as I'm blessed.



1. I know many pro-tither who have more than 3 I.Ds, are you people not also guilty of same? Have you heard of online tracking softwares? All you have to do is, get one of them and install on your computer and run or open nairaland dot com on that software and you will be shocked how many of your pro-tithers with several I.Ds.

2. The most people I have seen twisting scripture the most are the pro-tithers e.g Olaadegbu, Bidam, Image123, Joagbaje, Gombs, Alwaystrue or abi na AlwaysLIE be that one name sef . These are chief scripture twisters on this forum as regards tithe. Scripture don't speak in tongues but very clear.

3. Who and who are arguing? Who lost and who won? Are you saying the pro-tithers don't insult us too. Both sides are guilty of insulting one another and I won't support one side against the other. In all, we should all be civic in our communication without resulting to insult.

4. Again, the greatest cunny people I have met in my whole life are, Olaadegbu, Bidam, Image123, Joagbaje, Gombs, Alwaystrue. Ask them questions, they will go in circle and give you scriptures that is far away from the point. They turn the table into something else. They are incapable of reasoning the scripture. Ask them simple logic question, they will attack your person and say you're too proud and using human knowledge to understand the word as if when the Holy Spirit teaches, he put the knowledge in the leg, not in our mind.

God bless u. Thr is no better way to say it. Balanced and Inspiring.
Glory to God!!

benalvino: gen 10:5
By these were the coastlands of the nations divided in their lands; everyone after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

gen 10:20
These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

gen 10:31
These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.

And in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their companions, unto Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the writing of the letter was written in Aramaic, and set forth in the Aramaic language
from the above we can tell that tongue is language especially ezra 4;7

I will advise you to read the Corinthians you quote till verse 22... and you will get the full idea of what it is saying...

14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especiallyprophecy.
here the gift is more focused on prophecy not tongues

2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
this is talking about people who speak foreign language to the church... now tell me which kind prayer you are using to communicate with people? prayer is between God and man... so no need for the people to even hear what you are praying... and the verses is comparing tongue(languages) to prophesies... if you speak in tongues you edify your self because no one understands but it you prophesy you edify the church again the verses are comparing... see verse 3 to 4 below

3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who[b] prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
you see that he is not talking about prayers... its like i go to a church in US and start speaking tongues of ijaw... thats what this verses are about. [/b]


6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[d] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
now if speaking in tongues is a prayer why will he be speaking in tongues to the people... and see how he says he rather speak intelligible words than speaking in tongues... if it is a gift of prayers why is he rejecting it here?

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:


“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”
it is obvious that the tongues are other languages


22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

you guys should learn how to use context

Bro,

I came across ds thread and i wonder if i could ask u some questions for clarity of wat u posted.

U said

2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
this is talking about people who speak foreign language to the church... now tell me which kind prayer you are using to communicate with people? prayer is between God and man... so no need for the people to even hear what you are praying... and the verses is comparing tongue(languages) to prophesies... if you speak in tongues you edify your self because no one understands but it you prophesy you edify the church again the verses are comparing... see verse 3 to 4 below

3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.[/color] 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who[b] prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
you see that he is not talking about prayers... its like i go to a church in US and start speaking tongues of ijaw... thats what this verses are about.

Pls if d man who speaks in tongues is about speaking a foreign language to d church (Ijaw to US), wat language exactly is d same man speaking whn prophesying?
Also does dt means everytime we communicate (eg in English) in UK churches, we ar prophesying, since we d audience can here d preacher?

Brother nlMediator,

Why bothereth urself wit so much logic. There is a bible interpretation of the scriptures which every doctrinal arguments must not depart from. Thats not logic dts christain reality.
Dont kno about u, but as a believer i ve learnt when to stop on doctrinal arguments based any of d these reasons:

1. When the purpose of such argument is already achieved.

2. When the resultant effect of such arguments coherently put d other parties into circular random tots of asking wat has already been answered. i.e loss of structure/reasons for arguments by d parties. (Usually d other parties dont read or hear wat i say but wat they want to say). Such effort ends up dispersed on stone.

3. Benefit/Cost(Time) Ratio: A statistical forecast i borrowed from school which i used in measuring d profitability of time spent on open arguments compare to d other parties open hearts to considerable judgements (we can kno dt from parties' responses).

Without prejudice, it might take going thru all post in the thread again to discern exact reasons.

Heralding d Lordship of d Word

Just got back from Greater Works than this, an outreach to d lost world. It was an unforgettable time of preaching d Power of God (Gospel) and demonstrations of the Spirit. Souls were delivered from d power of Satan, healed, saved, filled with d Holyghost and spoke in tongues.
Praise God for d successful outreach and many big thanks to all co-workers/church members.

My NL brothers in d Lord too, thank u also 4 ur continuous posts and 4 maintaining d atmosphere of d Word above all experiences whn i was away, though some sound lik gossips yet i sure received all wit brotherly love.

Heralding The Lordship of the Word

Bidam: believers are also subject to demonic influences,i have seen cases where church members go against their pastors teachings and instructions.Simply because the devil is not present in such particular cases doesn't negate the fact that he is not the one behind it.The pharisees are likened to believers in Jesus era,they where so much against Jesus sayings and teachings that what came to their minds was to crucify Jesus.Scriptures recorded that the devil did that and not the pharisee..For hath he known he wouldn't have crucified the Lord of glory., we also have modern pharisees in our churches today. Nobody has talked about casting demons from inside the spirit of believers here .Please show me where anybody says so and i will debunk it using scripture. What superior said was that Man is made up of spirit,soul and body.Your body is your house.Does it mean that you can't share your house with pest without knowing?Ofcos you can share without knowing due to ignorance concerning the word of God in some areas.That is why the word of God tells us to study to show ourselves approved unto God.

Joagbaje: Have you ever experience kindom of darkness sending you an SMS ,or a demon? I have had some experience while ministering to some cases. But I want to sample opinion first before I give details of my experience .

If you have heard of such experience or you have actually experience such. Either as a threat or whatever the content .

It wil b hightime i moved on from ds folly of time wasting on issues dt has no place in d word of God.
Brothers, holdfast to ur doctrines of Paul has sickness in his body (mayb its leprosy, Abi?), Casting out demons in believers (d habitation of God, devil can share a room thr atleast) etc. Scripture says "U shall hav wat so ever u say". If u believ u can b possessed by demons, hold fast to it. But i am wat d Word says i am!!

If the time we dedicated here on doctrine is channeled to preaching d gospel to d outsiders, mayb we could hav gained some. I believ i hav acheived my aim on this thread.

And for every experience u post here again on casting out demons on believers, i tell u thousands are available wit testimonies of freedom from such ignorance of doctrine exalted by men. And they ar willing to share.

Thr is work to do, d nite comes when no man shall work.

JESUS CHRIST IS LORD

Bidam: Lets talk scripture oga..so far you have not made sense here.And you refused to answer my questions with scripture.Even atheist can do better than this.


How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.Acts 10:38.


From this scripture do you agree it is the devil that causes sickness? Do you agree sickness is a form of oppression?

Do you agree christians can fall sick?

Bro, mayb u can show me one Christian in d scripture dt Jesus healed from demonic oppressions. U hardly kno how to make differences btw dispensations and ministries in d scriptures. Answers i gav are clearer to those without veil or religions goggles.

Bidam: Do demons speak? Another bible quiz for you.BTW,you did not answer my other post.It's like you are fond of choosing post you wish to reply.

It seems to u dt we are doing questions and answer sessions. i wish ppl i can talk to ar d ones u r oppressing in ur joint. Becos of d simplicity of thr heart, they ll reciev light and freedom from ur oppressions.

My questions which are begging for your answers are:Do you agree that sickness is of the devil? Do you also agree that Christians can be sick?

Mayb u joined late here, u can read all over again then u will hav answers. Hav u asked ur self?
If i work mysef our during d day and develop head strain, am i having a demon at work?
If i live and drink around untidy environments, contact cholera, am i been buffet by satan?
Wat about opening up my chest and standing in cold rain?

To go by ur claims as yes, then we can conclude that even Oyinbo drugs can stop satan from possessing and buffeting man. Timothy has weakness, if it was spiritual based 9demonic) would Paul hav suggested physical remedy of wine. Or demons runs from wine?

If u r robbed by bank why not start casting demons than going to court. for solutions.

U see ordinary common sense can make an unbeliever live longer than a believer if not applied.

superior1: The fact he even wrote that sarcastic nonsense shows the fellow knows very little. I have met quite a few number of fellas like him who crammed as many verses of the bible as possible yet suffering spiritual malnutrition.

His type will feel knowledgeable enough to correct Jesus and only argues to make himself feel spiritual.

If Christians are immune to demonic attacks, Paul will not suffer, the Apostles will not be killed and the body of Christ will not go through the dark age era., it is spiritual stupidity and blindness not to know demons are in operations in those scenarios.

Paul himself was very vigilant so that he doesn't lose his salvation and at a point cried out on his inner struggles.

We are told to be vigilant because the adversary is walking around looking for who devour. We are not fearful when we identify our enemies and his strength but we gain an advantage by knowing. Christians enter into captivity for lack of knowledge.

Rabbi, the supervisor of d Body of Christ. Just continue encouraging urselves.

For anyone who want to become satan and start asking demons to drive him around, I wish him an accident free journey.

Ar u afraid? we dont walk in wishes, we walk in authority.

Bidam: LOl,the guy failed to see that the Kingdom of God we are talking about is actually an invisible kingdom.And Christians ought to walk by FAITH not by sight.

U made it visible by receiving sms, calls. Hop u heard thr voice.

Joagbaje: Not by me, by paul . Read

2 Corinthians 12:10
. . .I am well pleased and take pleasure in infirmities, insults, hardships, persecutions, perplexities and distresses; for when I am weak [ in human strength], then am I [truly] strong .

Who did paul attribute these hardship and afflictions to? Economy? Or the demon.

Bro, u actually are dangling around. If u hav been reading my post well, my very second or third post and my continuous stand here showed dt believers face hardship, persecutions, oppositions. But casting out demons from a believer? Its a big joke.

And u on ds Paul's thorn? U surely hav refused to without a religious glass. I posted many other scriptures for u whr THORN IN D FLESH WAS USED and they all shows oppositions, not sickness in d body.

2 Corinth 12: 7-10
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Pls o, who gave d thorn to Paul? Does God now collude wit satan to thorn our flesh in other to correct us now (to humble Paul)? Becos clearly d result of such thorns was d fact dt he was abased.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (God is now in d business of refusing to heal sicknesses caused by demons)?

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Does d power of God not works along wit demonic activities in our body?

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
We should all love sickness then since it brings humility

Bro d interpretation u presented requires a recheck from u.

We ar believers, we glory in persections, oppositions, hardship against the cause of d gospel, we rejoice at thr sight becos Jesus told us we ll see it but we hav overcome the world.

I i never use the term deliverance. It's just your manipulation.

My manipulation? ok sorry o (mayb dt stuff interferes d communication along d way). But u are casting out demons from believers, Abi?

Which scripture did you get that from dude . So your adversary is flesh and blood . I'm sure you got it from this scripture ;

Ephesians 6:12
For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies-- the evil rulers of the unseen world, those mighty satanic beings and great evil princes of darkness who rule this world; and against huge numbers of wicked spirits in the spirit world.

The devil cant do anything with out engaging human and his greatest opposition is towards d gospel. I hav said ds over ten times here, persecutions, oppositions, hard ship caused by men (unbelievers - subject to d influence of satan) ar d only things standing against believers (not inside believers), Engaging in casting out demons from a believer is a derivatives of saying d HolySpirit does lives in him, or they share apartment?

What is the word?

"I did more work than they'
" I suffered ship wreck"
"I suffered hardship'
"Alexander did me evil' God will punish him'

Persecutions, oppositions to d Faith. Jesus didnt take away dt. Demonic attack, Jesus spoilt dt completely for us.

You're shifting ground gradually I thought you said talking about demonic activity is giving glory to satan. ,so all Paul's complain are ok? His self pity also is the word. But if it's me it's glory to the devil ?

Shifting ground? Really funny. TALKING ABOUT A DEMON POSSESSED BELIEVER IS GLORIFYING SATAN IN DISGUISE.

U even said Paul self-pity himself, by besoughting from d Lord? U cant really mean dt.

U see, continue d casting out on ur followers (believers) but b ready d day light will shine on them u ll hav serious case to answer.

All,

I was tired yesterday after attending to a lot of things after church service dt i felt i should get someone to drive me home. Then i remembered NL thread: If demons can send sms, then i can command one of them wit authority to drive me home. I checked around and unfortunately thr was none to call becos i m only surrounded by believers who easily volunteer to drive.

U kno wat i m workin on now? How to use ds demons as physical slaves sinc they can toy wit phones. Use them for sometin lik; go wash my car; pick dt call for me; hey u (mayb call d name) start d Gen, light is out, how about tellin one to develop a website for me? That website will b cool.

I ll share d experience here soon to all.