₦airaland Forum

Billyonaire:
I do not like branding and labels. But there is no way I could hold this discourse without a label, and the closest label I could find for myself is "Pantheism". For now, that is best approach to understanding the underlying principles in the Universe. My study of String Theory and Biogenesis, has truly opened my eyes to existence of consciousness. And I will present to you, consciousness based on science. When you are ready to get us started.

Let's start from the very first word of the thread - god. We shall progress to consciousness.

What's god?

A good note on which to begin this discussion, is to first do an introduction of my atheistic identity.

I lack belief in god and all the concepts, that god idea is metamorphosing to.

I belong to the class of atheist, now called "New atheists".

Are you a pantheist that subscribe to philosophical or religious concepts of pantheism.

Billyonaire:
A Discussion On God And Consciousness Between An Atheist And A Pantheist.

it's ok. Do inform me when you open the thread.

Billyonaire:
While I accept there were some confusion on my earlier write-up because I was in a hurry, I have edited that post and you are free to re-read it again. I love the word 'debate' but I prefer the word 'discussion'. And I suggest even a more handsome title for the thread. It should be, "A discussion on God between an atheist and a pantheist."

it's ok. What will the topic of discussion be?

enshy:
You want to know how much anger we possess in the Holy Ghost!
Ask the devils, witches, wizards, demons, ogbanjes how much havoc we have caused in their kingdoms?
!

Just like Bishop Oyedepo slapped and stigmatized an innocent young girl, right in the presence of his sheepmaniacs of course. Accusing her of witchcraft that only exist in oyedepo's mind.

Your bishop will never in his life try that insane act again. You know why? We took him to rehab home through our lashing of sense into him, through medium like this.

If you let that illusionary anger of the Holy Spirit, push you into that madness, you will have explanations to make to child rights advocates.

Billyonaire:
I was atheist for over 10yrs, almost 15yrs, but then I realized after meticulous research from Biogenesis, mysticism, psychology and Quantum mechanics that there is something called Consciousness, which by the way, has been proven recently in Biogenesis and Quantum mechanics. Further research prove that consciousness does not originate from the brain, the brain is a modulator. The Sub-Conscious mind is modulated on the right brain hemisphere, while the consciousness mind is modulated on the left hemisphere that modulates logic, language, maths etc.

So what does all these have to do with Atheism ? Well, I realized that the left brain of Atheists are highly developed but the right brain hemisphere that controls intuition, impulses and consciousness remains under-developed or cleverly non-functional in known atheists, the rest of the so-called atheists are just mirroring the others.

I have evidences to prove that there is God at the core of our being. There is no Personal God, but there is source of all, and it is not out there, out there, we are it. We are God, all of us, experiencing creation, co-creating, and the creation continues, the universe is continually expanding, and we are it at our core.

If you want us to discuss on this, I could open a thread so I can have intelligent discussion with any atheists who is ready to have a sane conversation instead of trying to confuse and convince the others.

Lets not forget that Logic, which has been the tool of atheism is controlled by the left hemisphere of the brain, so without a functional left brain, atheists cant understand anything spiritual naturally. Atheists are just victims of dysfunctional left lobe of the brain.

Again, the mind is over matter, soul is over mind, so mind cant supervise soul, but soul observes the mind. So, there is no way you can use the science which is a product of the mind to study soul.

It is why I really have to educate atheists on this.

Hmmmmm.... You have thrown alot of issues up here. Which i must confess, are utterly conflicting and unfocused.

If you want us to make sense, your suggestion on opening a thread, which focuses on the topic of consciousness, will be okay by me.

Conditions

* Just between the two of us, there will be no response to contributions of others on the thread.

* strictly intellectual discussion. No personal attacks or ridiculous comments.


Topic suggestion:

"Debate between Billyonaire and Akintom on Consciousness"

enshy:
Noooo.Its your hate, envy and jealousy thats making your blood rise. You are hurt at the followership and prosperity of the church. I cant help you for the followership n prosperity will be in manifolds every year!
Bro, no man follows one who has nothing to offer...If you want such followership and attention, seek counselling!
How else do you measure success? You have resorted to insults cos you know you by no means match the least in that household.
I understand your pain...What you claimed is bullshit after 20 years of dancing around it, see what others have made out of it..Verily you were your own problem, not God. You were never seriois with Him, He couldnt bestow on you these honour, beauty and glory! Every human will hurt, see the honour, beauty and glory of the Church! You are on the losing side and you are hurt! Christ is calling you back, forget the shame and run to Him, this attitude wont help you. No peace, joy nor glory to show for it...A belief in no God, what a pathetic life!
You talk about brain washing, that exactly is the true definition of your state when you are blind to the truth and kick against it fruitlessly and shamelessly..Your efforts cant get a single soul out of the Kingdom..God isnt moved by the hatred, its a pitiable state! Get on your knees and give up your futile fight and run to God with seriousness, sincerity and sobriety.
You cant but accept that the Church of God is far ahead of your sham logic, reasoning, ideas! Its for the low lives!! Get your gibberish far away from us!!! Its nauseating, appalling, annoying and only fit for the Fools, Perverts, Dead!
We have of God and have overcome all! You cant beat us to it! You have failed before you started.

Kikikikikikiki... Looool.

So much anger and delusionary reaction there. Now the holy ghost must be disappointed in one of its host.

TheEminentLaity:
Which books? I asked for you to be specific. ?

* behavioral neuroscience
* psychoanalysing God
* the biology of beliefs
* fundamentals of human beliefs system

Just a few....

TheEminentLaity:
Could you share your must reads on these subjects

If you just check those books out, you will find what i read in them out by yourself.

They are written in plain English (as against the Bible, that you folks claimed can't be understood in its written language).

enshy:
Please I have cursed nobody and neither do I attend his church. Judgment is of God!

Aren't those who curse directly, your brothers and sisters? And didn't you, in your previous reply to me, and in your perplexed mind, desire that my blood pressure increase? Because i did an analysis on your bishop?

enshy:
Yet another myopic view: do the students of fraudulent lecturers buy the books out of necessity or compulsion? in pain or joy? Is this how you demystify by muddling up points comparing paralleled scenarios? His followers buy of Joy, necessity and the results are evident even before the blind so you have no excuse not to see!

Some folks are called "the gullible ones" (mostly found at religious gatherings). Do you know why they are so called?

They are called gullible, because a "psychological force" (brainwashing, in lay man's language), can make them do things, that will normally require the use of brute force, before they can be made to do it.

enshy:
You cant do one-hundredth what she has done nor can you surpass her achievements in all areas! You cant even take up her first son who is also in the ministry!

This shows your limitations, as far as the indices used in determining success is concerned.

enshy:
All Im saying is that family isnt in your class! Go to the next you can find around!

The very reason you religious folks will worship anything, as long as it claims it heard god. Even if it be donkey, you folks will gather to hear it.

enshy:
May be one of those your fraudulent lecturers cos I dont them...The school I graduated from, we had none!

The level and quality of your reasoning, has confirmed to me, the quality of stuffs driven into you, by the ones who taught you.

GodsMopol:
Sir, with smiles on my face, I would say yes, but with a wrinkled face, I would say, I really don't know when I operate in it.

If you have, then you ought to have discern that am an atheist.

Or the Holy Spirit doesn't know that atheists exist.

enshy:
What height of disdain without recourse to human reasoning!
Every good reader of books knows a material cannot suffice for a soul craving for knowledge and insight!
Pls did any good student rely on one material for accounts, economics, thermodynamics, electrical machines, power, computer programming; dont we not even have some topics in parts by same author?
Every good reader would decide what materials to digest in his quest for knowledge. If he wishes, he sticks to one author, if he loves his stlye of writing!
Whose business if all my library is filled with Pastor so and so's books?
Do you see his followership and their commitment? Shame on the devil and the enemies of the gospel! They try so hard and keep failing!
See let all hear, be ready to get frustrated beyond measure, your blood will rise so high because the prosperity of the church has just begun. We give and yet abound to much! Dont get jealous, if you want to enjoy this prosperity, join the church!
We have dominion over ALL!!!

It's obvious that you're perplexed beyond the control of the Holy Spirit regulation.

You never imagined your bishop oyedepo been demystified in this manner. Poor you there.

You folks are fond of cursing with hypertension, don't you think that this curse is returning to you in multiple folds? Because the last time i checked, your mama faith, was down with complication of hypertension.

Your bishop is just like those fraudulent lecturers, who copy and paste textbooks, make them to handout and sell them to students, every year.

Omoluabi16:
did he force you to buy? oga, don't let Christianity give you HBP oh.

The folks bound in grand illusion, are mentally "forced" to buy.

Am just awakening such folks.

GodsMopol:
Sir I believe its a privilege see you comment on our post, even when they are annoying, I believe I got what I wanted, and thanks for that, the testimony you spoke about in my own life does not in anyway support any of the belief you are standing with, probably, I dont understand which side you are on, but I think those testimony might give you a bit of a doubt that there is God.

Well, what I think is, there was a particular time in my life that I was so much prayerful, I have made some mistakes, but I still held on, at a time, I said, I'm no longer interested, but there was a man of Gods tape-Revd Goke Ogunleye, I loved his teachings, and I knew he was the only one who could get me out of the mud I was in. I got to his church and heard him preach on the mercy of God, how God would not count our sin against us, 2corin 5:18, and has committed unto us the ministry of reconciliation, to with that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself.

I also heard about those who judge, and he said, those who judge are actually trying to cover something up, he gave the illustration of Jesus and the woman who was caught in adultery, how that despite her weakness, those who were stoning actually had some skeleton in their cupboard. John 8

he also preached on the story of how Judah wanted Tamah stoned to death, the same Tamah that played the harlot and took the leadership staff of Judah, but when she was about being stoned, Tamah brought out the staff and showed it to those around, and Judah said, of a truth she is more righteous than I, and for the first time in a long time, my hope fired up. Gen 38

I believe you gat in you a little hope for the dying atheist who are fed with all sort of lies, human reasoning that would not make them see the truth. Paul said, I was a injurious, a blasphamier, but God counted me faithful, putting into mystery. We are all product of His grace and mercy, because we are members of His flesh, of His body, and of His bone.

Thanks for your time, sir.

Have you ever heard anything about the "gift or spirit of discernment" ?

If yes, do you have it?

Billyonaire:
Are you an atheist ?

yes

GodsMopol:
I would ask you a question sir, based on your experience in ministry, Tacsfon n all of that, and the fact you said you were a Christian. But, I want to ask you a question that pulls up your past. Did you at any point in those days of your presidency as the fellowship president in any sense get anyone filled with the Holy Ghost or saw anyone got filled with the Holy Ghost during your term in office, and what explanation do you have for that?

My leadership was received with great joy. They had their testimonies and got blessed according to whatever that means to each member.

Till today, despite my present disposition to religion, my brothers and sisters, still respect my time as their pastor.

Nothing was untoward or questionable (even as they do a retrospective analysis of my time) about my tenure.

AntiWailer:
Brainless.
If they ask you to read books. You can choose to borrow or not buy.
Nobody put a gun on your head.

It's against the redemptive right to borrow!
It's an abuse of the regeneration in the kingdom!
- Bishop Oyedepo.

Although bishop Oyedepo had gloatingly claimed in the past, that he doesn't derive monthly salary from the church's purse, that may be true.

Being a master trickster that he's, this public proclamation is one of the gimmicks, by which he makes the members to believe that, they can "provoke their god" to raining money down on them, if they can "seed" a "sacrificial" resource.

But what these members don't know is that, bishop Oyedepo had figured out the means via which he will make million fold of the monthly salary he claimed he sacrificed to god.

And here it is. If you check the first OP, at the bottom, his three different books (which are mere repetition of just one thought, that can be summarized in two paragraphs of a newsletter) are recommended to the members.

The members buy these books, and also buy for those they intend to convert. And convincing themselves, that they are "keying" into the act of "provoking god".

All the sales generated monthly, goes to the privately owned account by Bishop Oyedepo. This account is named after his company called DAVID OYEDEPO MINISTRY INTERNATIONAL (DOMI).

In the words of oyedepo below:

"This order of wisdom cannot be found in the land of the living, neither can it be acquired in any institution of learning, because it is from above, it shall be above all intellectual realms....... "

Yes, oyedepo is correct. Because, to be able to make money from rational minds, you will need wisdom that is obtainable in the land of the living.

But to make money off the minds bound in grand illusion, all you need is gimmicks, charade and oppressive mentality.

Memo
From: President, WCI
To: All Mission Stations
Subject: Prophetic Focus for march 2017
Date: February 28th, 2017


My Case is Different greetings to you all in Jesus’ name.

I believe everyone of us must have had definite encounters with the Word in the course of the month of February; I pray for the release of grace upon each one of us that will enable us to keep walking in the light that we encountered, and to continue to grow in the knowledge of the truth, going forth from glory to glory in Jesus’ name. Amen.
But what is the Spirit of the Lord saying concerning the month of March 2017?
As we are all aware, we are in the last days, where the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and many nations shall flow unto it – Mic. 4:1-2
We are in the latter days, where God is out, building the latter house, whose glory shall be greater than the former – Hag. 2:3-9

We are also in the latter days, where God’s people shall begin to build the old wastes, raise up the former desolations, the desolations of many generations – Is. 61:4-5

We are indeed in the building era in the body of Christ!

But through wisdom is a house built; and by understanding it is established – Pro. 24:3-4

This implies that, we are in the era of the manifestation of the ‘manifold’ wisdom of God in the body of Christ today. As it is written, “To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord” – Eph. 3:10-11
The manifold wisdom of God here, is translated in the Amplified Bible as “the many-sided wisdom of God in all its innumerable aspects and infinite varieties”

There shall be a strong wave of the Spirit of wisdom blowing across the body of Christ like never known before in history, with undeniable proofs in building great institutions across the nations of the earth. These institutions shall include, mega church facilities, educational institutions across all levels, health care infrastructures, great industries and conglomerates, etc. through the empowerment of the Spirit of wisdom – Ps 87:1-7

This order of wisdom cannot be found in the land of the living, neither can it be acquired in any institution of learning, because it is from above, it shall be above all intellectual realms that even destruction and death shall bow to its authority. This wisdom from on high will engender dominion over all the challenges of life, make amazing discoveries in creating solution to real life problems and many more – Job. 28:7-28
The body of Christ is in for the best of time ever; God shall be empowering the end-time church to reign by the outpouring of the Spirit of wisdom – Pro. 8:15-18

We are indeed in the era of the manifestation of the sons of God, that the world has been waiting for; and as this army of solution providers begins to rise in the body of Christ, the world around us shall begin to exclaim, ‘what wisdom is this that is given unto them that such mighty works are wrought by their hands?’

Therefore, the prophetic focus for the month of March 2017 is:
What Wisdom is This? – Matt. 13:54.


Recommended books of the month authored by Bishop David O. Oyedepo include:
* Winning Wisdom
*Walking in wisdom
* The Wisdom that Works

*Creating A New Beginning by Bishop David Abioye

Remain ever blessed!

Jesus is Lord!


Bishop David O. Oyedepo

TheEminentLaity:
Yeah, I may not be very elaborate in expressing what I mean, of course a child has the ability to think however the thoughts that could lead to depression or a false sense of self or perhaps delusions are not observed in children and yes, these can be described in terms of biological mechanisms, hormonal secretions and neurological activities but I believe they are results and not the cause itself. I am not an atheist hence I believe I am much more - a spirit if you like -. I know people get a sense of self or identity from the way they think and what they think about. So what I understood the OP was trying to say is that there is something independent thoughts. Hence, you can stop thinking. The mind is occupied by one thing at a time, and not many people occupy their minds with the present.

You're a spirit? How is that?

TheEminentLaity:
It may seem like a 'conscious' decision in the beginning but with practice through methods like mindfulness meditation you could discover that the mind is different...It's like the difference between a child and an adult. A child doesn't worry about anything because they don't think not until they are taught how to.

This very concept of trichotomous segregation of human, applies in metaphysical knowledge.

The neurophysiological concept, which studies human as psychosomatic entity, is Scientifically robust and productively beneficial, to a healthy interrelationship of human beings and their environments.

It's wrong to say

"A child doesn't worry about anything because they don't think not until they are taught how to".

Ability to think is not taught, it's innate. Thinking process is a neurochemical mechanism.

The possibility of stopping thought process, is a conscious one. And that which is left is encoded message in the memory.

It's encoded because you consciously instructed the temporary stoppage.

The human conscious and subconscious component are sensors, which continuously interact with sensory input from countless sources.

The sensors are at work per the minutest time measurements possible.

So, what is left after imposing momentary "stop" on thought process, IS THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO MOMENTARILY STOP THINKING (you're bugged with this decision until you decide otherwise).

Based on this, you actually didn't stop thinking. Because you're holding in dynamic state, the very thought of the decision to momentarily hold your thoughts.

enshy:
Reason could either be evil or good!
If parallel to religion, your guess is as good as mine!!
The reasoning is evil!!!
However, I dont celebrate religion, I celebrate Faith in Jesus and I preach it to the glory of God!!!!
I have become the headache of the devil n his cohorts.

Just how have you confirm, that you're some headache to devil?

enshy:
Get this: I dont pray to a god but God...I guess thats where u had issues. You never really had a relationship with God!

Now your case is fixed. You're either new on this section or you're just not familiar with my writings.

Atheists don't differentiate deities, with case type.

I particularly refer to the Christian God, with any of the following:

* god
* Jewish Idol
* Jewish doG
* Yahweh

So, stop fooling around mere case type.

MZLady39:
Well sir...that's what I've read. If that's not your case, then my apologies.
"Behavioral metamorphosis".....ok.

No offense.

MZLady39:
I have come to realize that most atheists were not born that way.

Are you of the view that religious beliefs are genetically bestowed?

MZLady39:
Something happens in their life that causes the change.

It's an erroneous and religious imposed stereotype, to think been an atheist, one must have been disillusioned.

A Google search will better enlighten the apologists, on the behavioral metamorphosis that culminate in becoming an atheist.

enshy:
You are so filled with spiritual insight!
I bless God for he still has people in this generation with so much wisdom to bluntly and plainly show the world the poverty of the rich, folly of the wise, madness of the sane..
A President of The Apostolic Church Student Fellowship of Nigeria, a Xtian of over 20years searching for spiritual insight in evil literature!
How can a man who has been washed, sanctified, filled with the Holy Ghost submit to the devil?
Most of them never really went far with God! When you taste God, you can only want more!! Amen.
May God deliver him! Ild be praying for you if by chance God Grace can move the extra mile to save you.

Stop been patronizing. You sound wimpy and sorrowful now, the very character of the Holier than thou(s).

The very character of them, who assume things that bear no intelligent thinking and bereft of sense in eliciting enquiry.

Who told you that i was searching "spiritual insights" in the books that i read?

I was doing my academic literature review with the books and videos that i mentioned.

The deductions that i came out with, was what helped me know and understand god idea and religion for what it is.

Has your god been able to answer your own prayers? When your voice cracks, you will be forced to abandon your soliloquy.

luvmijeje:
Then you've not met God yet. If you've there are things you would have witnessed that science cannot explain.There are things you would have seen that you will never get to see in any book. There are things you would would have done that will seem be so foolish to others.

The years you've spent in church doesn't matter. It's the years God has spent in your life that matter.

and what are these "things" you're talking about?

enshy:
You have got no choice. No one fights right and wins! However, to the myopic, this is illusionary! A Xtian mind resonates at my frequency and you dont have one!!! Dont forget basic geometry 'parallel lines dont meet' We are far apart!!!!!

just as reason is parallel to religious faith.

MZLady39:
Hi Sir,
I don't mean any harm, but may I ask what happened in your life for you to have such a cynical view of spirituality?

I just hope you asked based on honest and intelligent curiosity.

I was a Christian (climax of which was been a President of TACSFON - student fellowship on campus).

All together, i had over 20yrs Christian religion experience (got born again at age 12 and counting from then).

I rejected believe in god idea and religion about 2yrs ago.

This decision was informed by honest and intelligent reading of many books and viewing videos (majorly neuroscientific and biopsychology).

Reading these books and videos without religious lens, inspires what i write about god and religion today.

And mind you, am not cynical in my views about god idea, am been honest and rational in my thinking.

enshy:
Do you by chance know how many years there is in a century? If your statistics captures info by centuries, pls ild disregard it! I make comparisons in the last decade years. Im on mission for a glorious furture so I cant be im shadows of the past! We are not where we need to be and there is need for all to control emotions and appetites..Why is there rape, fraud, child molestation, increase in teen sex and abortions? Everyone knows majorly sexual perversion is on a GP rise...Lust is the cause and we must fight it!
This age is too advanced! Let us all look forward!!!

I leave you to your illusionary crusade.

To succeed, you will have to whirlwind into the age of inquisition.

Your anachronistic approach will greatly be embraced there.

Mekwen:
Do you know its absolute stupidity to quote only a part of the bible cos you agree with it & disregard other parts cos you don't?pls stop being a mumu now.If you wanna quote bible , then believe in everything about it first I.e give your life to Christ. UNDERSTAND ?Now repeat after me...Lord Jesus, I take thee as my lord & personal saviour .

There's this guy we called "asinwin jesu" way back. It's an amusing coincidence that am meeting a twin of the guy here on NL.