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Christianity Etc › Re: Absence Of Evidence Is Evidence Of Absence by akintom(op): 5:00pm On Mar 09, 2017

MZLady39:
Oh...I don't want to confuse folks in here. Everyone's not at the same level in regards to certain topics.
I'll be the first to say that some areas I won't touch.
So before I delve into a topic like this, I must be very cautious....
I like to know a little about the person to see what has caused his/her worldview.
Although I'm hardly afraid, I know how your group works....

But I do think I answered many of your scholar's quote by my post the other day.

I bet you that folks here are as diverse in depth of perceptive understanding, as you can find elsewhere.

I have this in mind, when i do some type of writing, comments and posts.

I see what i write as drops of knowledge in the minds of folks, these drops soon become ocean that breaks banks.

All the same, i feel you.

Christianity Etc › Re: Absence Of Evidence Is Evidence Of Absence by akintom(op): 3:28pm On Mar 09, 2017

MZLady39:
Oh I'm well aware of that. You want a debate. I disagree with lots of his argument...but of what use is it for me to counteract it?

The best motive, is that which stream from a source that offers "use" to general bodies, as against singular self.

Christianity Etc › Re: Absence Of Evidence Is Evidence Of Absence by akintom(op): 2:56pm On Mar 09, 2017

MZLady39:
Hmmm.....interesting title. This author Victor Stenger....wonder what his background is? Will have to research him..

An input on some of the points of his argument, would have been more desirable.

Christianity Etc › Absence Of Evidence Is Evidence Of Absence by akintom(op): 11:34am On Mar 09, 2017

Absence of Evidence Is Evidence of Absence

By Victor Stenger

Even the most pious believer has to admit that there is no scientific evidence for God or anything else supernatural. If there were, it would be in the textbooks along with the evidence for electricity, gravity, neutrinos, and DNA. This doesn’t bother most believers because they have heard many times that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

However, just repeating a statement over and over again does not make it true. I can think of many cases where absence of evidence provides robust evidence of absence. The key question is whether evidence should exist but does not. Elephants have never been seen roaming Yellowstone National Park. If they were, they would not have escaped notice. No matter how secretive, the presence of such huge animals would have been marked by ample physical signs — droppings, crushed vegetation, bones of dead elephants. So we can safely conclude from the absence of evidence that elephants are absent from the park.

For thirty years physicists have been searching for a particle called the Higgs boson that hypothetically plays a key role in the universe, so important that it has been referred to (perhaps facetiously) as the “God Particle.” In the standard model of particles and forces put in place in the 1970s and consistent with every observation since, Higgs bosons pervade the universe and generate mass, the very stuff of matter. We have failed to observe them so far because we have lacked the necessary instruments. However, there are good theoretical reasons to believe that the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Geneva, now accumulating its initial data, should provide evidence for the Higgs. If it does not — a prospect most physicists regard as possible — then the Higgs boson would be shown not to exist.

That is the situation with the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. Until recent times, absence of evidence for his existence has not been sufficient to rule him out. However, we now have enough knowledge that we can identify many places where there should be evidence, but there is not. The absence of that evidence allows us to rule out the existence of this God beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now, I am not talking about all conceivable gods. Certainly the deist god who does not interfere in the world is difficult to rule out. However, the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, whom I identify with an uppercase G, is believed to play such an active role in the universe that his actions should have been detected, thus confirming his existence. Let me present four examples.

I will begin with the origin of the visible universe. Our knowledge today allows us to push back in time to barely a trillionth of a second after the universe began. Extrapolating from there to the origin, we find that the universe began in a tiny (but not infinitesimal) region of space. Now, information only exists when it is embodied in some physical system, and we know that there is a limit to how compact information can be. This tiny region of space could not have contained more than a few bits of information — far too little to specify the universe that evolved from it.

As the universe expanded, it could hold more information. This created an environment in which order could emerge — as, over time, through an endless series of random events, it did. But the tiny amount of information contained in the very early universe was not enough to include any plans of some creator at that time. This allows for the possibility of a deist god who set things up, started things going randomly, and then left. It does not allow for some specific plan of creation to be embodied in the universe from the beginning. A God with such a plan can be ruled out beyond a reasonable doubt.

Next, consider the claim that the universe was designed. Many people give this as a reason to believe in God. They cannot see how the order of the universe can have come about naturally. However, observations in physics, cosmology, and biology have been scoured for evidence for design in the universe, evidence that should be there if there were a designer God. None has been found. This includes the frequently heard claim that the parameters of physics and cosmology exhibit a fine-tuning for the evolution of life. That subject will be covered in great detail in my next book: The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning: How the Universe is not Designed for Us. My conclusion is that the claims of fine-tuning are based on inadequate knowledge of physics.

Intelligent design in biology has been thoroughly refuted in recent years, so I need not say much. Everywhere biologists look they find evidence of randomness and haphazard arrangements that would be called incompetent if they were designed. No matter where scientists cast their eyes, the universe they see looks just like it should look if there was no divine design.

Third, consider the supposed power of intercessory prayer. Well-executed experiments by reputable institutions such as Harvard, Duke, and the Mayo Clinic have failed to find that prayer improves the recovery of hospital patients. Apologists simply say God did not choose to respond to this test. But you can bet they would have changed their tune if the results had been positive. Trillions of prayers have been tendered over millennia. Of course, most sick people get better anyway, except once. If the God most people worship and pray to does exist, intercessory prayer would have a better batting average than what you would get from the normal operation of the natural world, including luck. It doesn’t.

As the final example, the Abrahamic God is believed by his worshipers to talk to people and provide information they otherwise did not know. Nothing could be easier to test scientifically. All you have to do is find a few examples where a truth has been revealed that later was confirmed. This could be something simple, such as a prediction of some future event that turned out to be confirmed. This has never happened.

Of course, claims of revelation can be found in all three monotheisms, but none stand up to critical scrutiny. The so-called prophecies in scriptures were all made in the distant past and can’t be tested since the events prophesied have already happened, or, as in the case of Jesus returning in a generation, long been falsified.

In all of these examples, evidence for God should have been found, but was not. This absence of evidence is evidence of absence. It refutes the common assertion that science has nothing to say about God. In fact, science can say, beyond any reasonable doubt, that God — the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God — does not exist.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Important Question For Atheists/apostates by akintom(m): 8:41am On Mar 09, 2017

pressplay411:
Guess the more important question is, is it OK to raise children to be religious nonconformists? Exposing them to the risk of peer pressure and even possible hostility from society.

Is it not wiser to raise them as Christians/Muslims?

You can as well ask me, if it's ok to raise my daughter, with the mentality of justice, equity and fairness, in a chronically chauvinistic and misogynistic society.

Christianity Etc › Re: Isaac Newton On Atheism by akintom(m): 10:34pm On Mar 08, 2017*

GodsMopol:
Lemme just say, I knew there was Google all his while, and referring me back to Google isnt part of the deal, yea, this is not a deal though, it was meant to be a dialogue

Is this the the enquiry that i directed at you?

"3. What could have caused the emergence of this smallest unit of life?
The above questions are scientific ones. A ask from Google, will provide you voluminous theories, that have been put forward on the above questions.

If your answer to number 3 question above, is that a Creator (god), is the cause of life in it's complex form (as against the principles of reductionism), then you will have to explain to me, how that happened?"

If you are honest and intelligent in your curiosity about my writings, you would have focused on the issue and not the side mentioned point.

Christianity Etc › Re: God Is Science, Science Is Not God; See Reason... by akintom(m): 8:22pm On Mar 08, 2017

MZLady39:
Hmmmm......a master of beautiful words you truly are sir......

Am flattered, my lady!

Christianity Etc › Re: Isaac Newton On Atheism by akintom(m): 11:13am On Mar 08, 2017

GodsMopol:
Just two sir, or if you could answer all sir.

1. Who started creation as in, who is the creator?

Let's start from this first question.
The Origin of life, is the crux of the discussion here. In approaching this enquiry, there ought to be premises, on which to base the proposition of the possible origin of life.

1. Is life real (can be related with, using the human senses)?

2. To what smallest unit can life be reduced?

3. What could have caused the emergence of this smallest unit of life?

The above questions are scientific ones. A ask from Google, will provide you voluminous theories, that have been put forward on the above questions.

If your answer to number 3 question above, is that a Creator (god), is the cause of life in it's complex form (as against the principles of reductionism), then you will have to explain to me, how that happened?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Isaac Newton On Atheism by akintom(m): 9:52am On Mar 08, 2017

GodsMopol:
Sir, I have ran into some of your dialogue between Enshy n Akintom which I randomly run into sometimes. But there are questions about creation that has been left unanswered. Well, I look forward to the day when science as you believe in would provide a better definition for creation and the essense of creation.

Anyone who.creates anything would certainly have two things in mind, a connection to the one he created and a purpose for the created. The creator of nairaland was presumptuously Seun and lalastical or so.

I really don't know, and they know their personal purpose, either financial or whatever, at least, to.my best knowledge, I think networking like we are doing now, and he has a connection or a channel by which he can interact and supervise what's going on, that's why, there are always 21 rules up there telling us, this is our guide, anyone who does not conform with such standard which is monitored by the owner of this blog, we would assume that's a form of connection or a interaction which many times might not be seen on this side, there are codes running underground as we chat of which we can't see. We can't delve from creation. The best way to understand now, is to.understand creation

May i know the specific question you're asking me?

Christianity Etc › Re: Isaac Newton On Atheism by akintom(m): 8:46am On Mar 08, 2017

When a mind is intoxicated with creationist filths, there is no limit to the depth, of regression into idiocy that such mind, will automatically not descend.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 8:41am On Mar 08, 2017

DoctorAlien:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." -Isaac Newton

Behold what the doctor of alien is romancing.

Christianity Etc › Re: God Is Science, Science Is Not God; See Reason... by akintom(m): 7:06am On Mar 08, 2017

MZLady39:
Sir Hamlet....I mean Akintom,
Hmmmm.....I'm requesting elucidation.

Summary: you're too a sane and refreshing lady, deserving no association with religious peeps.

Your aura is as a fragrance, that herald bliss, comparable only to that of fairy garden of Eldorado. Asking men to severe ties with the sphere of peeps, who think, read and understand with their heart.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Irony Of Religion by akintom(m): 10:44pm On Mar 07, 2017

* it takes religious beliefs, to make Nigerians continue to romance hopeless ideas, policies and leadership forever.

* it takes religious beliefs, to make Nigerians to rather remain oppressed, than to demand fairness, equity and justice.

* it takes religious beliefs, to make Nigerians to abhor the bold attitude of demanding responsible leadership.

* it takes religious beliefs, to make Nigerians prefer "go and sin no more" (impunity) for rouges plundering our commonwealth, than to demand a commensurate deterrence.

There's nothing like over-religious, what we have is a cancerous influence of religious beliefs on the different leadership strata of Nigeria.

A prevailing secular Nigeria, is the path to liberation from the fetters of religious idiocy.

3 Likes 3 Shares

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 10:29pm On Mar 07, 2017

luvmijeje:
This is a simplistic view of relationship between religion and the society. It's society like Nigeria that put the problem of corruption on religion rather than the government. The problem of moral decadence on religion rather than on families. The problem of society decadence on religion rather than you and I.

The reason why religion is a scape goat is because every other areas of our lives have failed ... .. Education failed, system of government failed, economy failed. If it has been working you won't think of the religion.

OP, you're one of the problem, you focused so much on religion who has no access to money rather than our politicians who are going away with murder. Instead of holding our politican responsible, you are blaming religion that has no legal duties to provide schools, good roads, stabilize the economic etc.

I know when it comes to church's issue, you always see the cup of empty. But have you ever wondered why despite the level of poverty, we were rated one of the happiest country... .. .. religion. Have you ever wondered at the low rate of suicide compare to so called developed countries..... Religion. Have you ever wondered at the high level of hopes of Nigerians..... Religion. Have you ever wondered why Nigerian's spirit seems so unbreakable.. ... .. . Religion.

Religion at his worst happened when people start getting indoctrinated and it happened because other areas of our life have failed.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: God Is Science, Science Is Not God; See Reason... by akintom(m): 10:12pm On Mar 07, 2017

MZLady39:
Clever you are Sir Akintom.....turn the statement around to me.
Well....I posted this quote (as controversial as it may be) with all the fellow "free-thinkers" in mind...so I'll let you make that conclusion.

My lady,
Permit me to make this hearty digression. If i were still a Christian, your blissful demeanour, shall arouse a discernment of an angel of darkness, lurking around to draw me into the realm of the works of the flesh.

But now that i belong no more to the realm where folks think with their heart, my mind now feels pained of having such beautiful mind like you, bound in illusionary romance with the nazarene and his cohorts.

I have written in this shakespearean style, in presumption that you're an initiate of the fairy art.

Kindly request elucidation, in the event that my piece is manacled in ambiguity.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 6:20pm On Mar 07, 2017

[]

MZLady39:
"To many, scientific research has become a curse. God has permitted a flood of light to be poured upon the world in discoveries in science and art; but even the greatest minds, if not guided by the Word of God in their research, become bewildered in their attempts to investigate the relations of science and revelation."

"Human knowledge of both material and spiritual things is partial and imperfect; therefore many are unable to harmonize their views of science with Scripture statements. Many accept mere theories and speculations as scientific facts, and they think that God's word is to be tested by the teachings of "science falsely so called." 1 Timothy 6:20. The Creator and His works are beyond their comprehension; and because they cannot explain these by natural laws, Bible history is regarded as unreliable. Those who doubt the reliability of the records of the Old and New Testaments too often go a step further and doubt the existence of God and attribute power to nature. Having let go their anchor, they are left to beat upon the rocks of infidelity."

..."It is a masterpiece of Satan's deceptions to keep the minds of men searching and conjecturing in regard to that which God has not made known and which He does not intend that we shall understand."

"Those who are unwilling to accept the plain, cutting truths of the Bible are continually seeking for pleasing fables that will quiet the conscience." ...."Satan is ready to supply the heart's desire, and he palms off his deceptions in the place of truth."

The Great Controversy-Ellen G. White p.gs 522-523

Christianity Etc › Re: God Is Science, Science Is Not God; See Reason... by akintom(m): 6:18pm On Mar 07, 2017

MZLady39:
Hi my friend,
I'm doing this in love...so please don't be offended.

"To many, scientific research has become a curse. God has permitted a flood of light to be poured upon the world in discoveries in science and art; but even the greatest minds, if not guided by the Word of God in their research, become bewildered in their attempts to investigate the relations of science and revelation."

"Human knowledge of both material and spiritual things is partial and imperfect; therefore many are unable to harmonize their views of science with Scripture statements. Many accept mere theories and speculations as scientific facts, and they think that God's word is to be tested by the teachings of "science falsely so called." 1 Timothy 6:20. The Creator and His works are beyond their comprehension; and because they cannot explain these by natural laws, Bible history is regarded as unreliable. Those who doubt the reliability of the records of the Old and New Testaments too often go a step further and doubt the existence of God and attribute power to nature. Having let go their anchor, they are left to beat upon the rocks of infidelity."

..."It is a masterpiece of Satan's deceptions to keep the minds of men searching and conjecturing in regard to that which God has not made known and which He does not intend that we shall understand."

"Those who are unwilling to accept the plain, cutting truths of the Bible are continually seeking for pleasing fables that will quiet the conscience." ...."Satan is ready to supply the heart's desire, and he palms off his deceptions in the place of truth."

The Great Controversy-Ellen G. White p.gs 522-523

CC: Akintom, Frank317, CatfishBilly, Jonbellion
(The four "free-thinkers" I've had some conversation with)

Since this is a quote, do you agree with the thought line?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Keyamo, Stephanie Otobo Are After Me — Apostle Suleiman by akintom(m): 4:12pm On Mar 07, 2017

petra1:
Apostle Suleman has helped many people he hardly know. Him and his wife. The wife also confirm this . He is a natural giver. I have experienced his generosity in the life of a close relative

Yea you're very correct. Most flirts are cheerful givers. They can even give all their monthly pay to chinene, just to get a joyful dip.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 4:06pm On Mar 07, 2017

avaa:
I stopped bothering about these folks already. Conversing with them can induce migraine. I wouldn't bother myself if they could just keep their folly to themselves, but no, they won't. How can anyone point to the bible as evidence of anything?

FYI, The bible proves nothing, except that some people wrote a book. My advice these days is this, read books on history, biology and physics. Then maybe you'll actually learn something.

I have long consigned the religious folks to case studies and research samples.

I just prime them this days, just to elicit the possible behaviors that are still persistent, despite present level of human evolution.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 2:48pm On Mar 07, 2017*

Image123:
That's my answer to your question. Do you think moral sense and communication with God are the same? Answer this and we take it from there.

I commit you into the hands of Yahweh, the most dark groping idea. May you find light somewhere, along that endless and darkest tunnel.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 12:01pm On Mar 07, 2017

LiberaDeus:
Akintom please dont stress yourself with the christian goats,

You go just vex for nothing,

How can they claim they are better because they use blind faith instead of logic, the fools cant see that with faith all things can be true and all things can be false

Continue your thread and put useful info, leave the insecure christard derailers to continue fooling themselves

Your point is noted bro.
You know, sometimes, it's amusing to see them fool themselves, by asking them leading questions.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 10:41am On Mar 07, 2017

Image123:
Hey, I'm not your master Mr man, just learn to follow conversation and avoid distractions.
Do you think moral sense and communication with God are the same?

Don't distract yourself. Answer my question.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Keyamo, Stephanie Otobo Are After Me — Apostle Suleiman by akintom(m): 10:39am On Mar 07, 2017

This is the reason...

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 7:00am On Mar 07, 2017

Image123:
Nope, follow the conversation can you? If you struggle to follow/comprehend basic conversation between YOU and i in less than a page, 24hours, most likely you'd struggle with 66books.
I said "Constitution was founded on communion and communication with God". To which you asked "How about moral sense?" And i replied that it is part of the process. Moral sense is a part of the process involved in making constitution and laws usually.

Ok, master of comprehensive prowess. Next time, learn to make sentence, and not banal phrase.

Now to your theory. What's the difference between moral sense and communion/communication with god.

Christianity Etc › Re: Important Question For Atheists/apostates by akintom(m): 6:53am On Mar 07, 2017

MZLady39:
Sir,
Does that include Islam or Indigenous religions? Or is this just targeted at Christianity...since you only mentioned it? Isn't the breakdown the following:
50/40/10= Islam/Christianity/Indigenous?

Lady,
All.

Christianity Etc › Re: Important Question For Atheists/apostates by akintom(m): 11:03pm On Mar 06, 2017*

Atheists don't emerge, after the fashion of raising a child in a Christian/Islam/traditional homes (indoctrination).

Atheists are not raised, they don't emerge by conversion or indoctrination. This is so, because atheists don't have rituals, books or dogma.

Atheistic disposition is a conclusion state.

When a child is trained in such a way that he can-

*intelligently analyse the concept of human beliefs system,

*make inference from the realistic test of religious claims,

Whatever conclusion such child is able to reach, is the responsibility of the child.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigerian Christianity A Hopeless Cause ? by akintom(m): 9:32pm On Mar 06, 2017

adepeter26:
Will you stop quoting me pls

This Dr spirit needs help urgently. Seriously, i feel he's lost touch with reality. Someone that knows him closely should help his infirmity, before it gets out hand.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 7:48pm On Mar 06, 2017

hopefulLandlord:
anything can be taken by faith

I tire for these irrational entities bro. They certainly want to debate me by faith.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 7:46pm On Mar 06, 2017

luvmijeje:
OP answer the questions. So that we'll be able dissect your answer like the way you have dissect the Bible.

Since both of you DON'T REASON, how can i engage you both in rational discussion?

Irrational mind = faith mind = Christians

Rational mind = intelligent mind = atheists

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 6:04pm On Mar 06, 2017

MrPRevailer:
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. Revelation 21:4

Even here on Earth, we've got pharmaceutical drugs (Nicotics) that makes one to forgot his past or erase memories. Yet, A limited man cannot be compared to an unlimited God. All things will be NEW...

Christianity Etc › Re: God Send Snakes To Bite Israelites by akintom(m): 5:30pm On Mar 06, 2017

No book is guilty of plagiarism as the Bible. Virtually all the tales in the bible, were copied from Grecian mythology.

Christianity Etc › Re: Collection Of Thought Patterns That Created God(s) Idea by akintom(op): 5:22pm On Mar 06, 2017

Image123:
Even the most basic discoveries have been attributed to God's inspiration by the 'discoverers'. The technology of fire, airplanes, engines, medical cures have all had the core inventors giving God the glory..

Of course, Boko Haram was inspired by the Abrahamic God.

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