Tessyy1701:


Popcorn in Ramadan afternoon

You mind him, he forgot that's KAFFARA

Hmmmm....

Dear brothers

First, Albaqir is not in Nigeria. Lanrexlan knew this that's why he said, "I would have suggested Albaqir if my akhee is still in Nigeria..."

Thanks a lot my dearest brothers for suggesting and accepting and given that responsibility. Unfortunately, I am not in Nigeria to discharge such duty.

Second, Empiree please can't you make it money transfer to each winners ni whereby they will just give you their respective account numbers?


Third, if that's not possible, I will advice my brothers to trust one another. That's a big Amanat which no mumin will fail to uphold.

Like brother Ladunal and brother Tessyy1701 if you can't trust and act truthfully, then what have we learnt in Ramadan. Thats a big food for thought.

You guys should appoint someone among yourself. My thought. May Allah helps.

aadoiza:

I can receive messages now with my attached Gmail with the forum. Just incase.
I can only send the the default message in the message box on the forum and don't know why that is. I will keep trying till the default message clears, hopefully.

l

I sent you a message via the e-mail you provided earlier. Did you received it?

usermane:

The menstrual cycle is like a broken tap that keeps running even when nobody need water. It seem too flawed a design, by a flawless God.

Your point exactly is what? To defend God or question His design?

If you ever study Islamic Philosophy, you will realized that there are and there can only be two types of existence: Necessity or Independent Existence and Possible/contingent/dependant Existence.

Necessity Existence brings about Possible Existence: meaning the later is in need of the former at all time. Every so-called "flaws" in man's design point to a simple fact that we are mumkin al-wujud (possible or contingent existence). If we are perfect then we can no longer be a dependent or contingent existence. We would be Necessary and independent existence.


Anyway, here's one IMPORTANCE of menses:

"The point is that there is every reason to welcome and grace menstruation. According to Dr John Ongech, the head of reproductive health at kenyatta National Hospital (KNH), regular menstruation is a woman's body's way of saying that there is hormonal balance within the body.

"If a woman is not having regular menstruation there must be an explanation for that. When a lady who is at least 18 is not menstruating it is a pointer to a problem - especially if she hopes to have children in future," Ongech says."

 https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/evewoman/article/2001238125/why-is-menstruation-important

usermane:
But there are questions with theism that all the sages of Islam, Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism can only answer with "God knows best". "God knows best" is an euphemism for "It doesn't matter, forget about it." But these questions matter because their subjects affect our lives daily.

This is what happened when your thinking is limited. Religious scholars give answer (some intellectual and philosophical while some are not) to all questions. However, each of them still insist "God knows best" simply because "God indeed knows best".

At every age, scientists keep on refuting themselves bringing out flaws in their predecessors submission or theories. This is one of the beauty of science the fact that doors of improvement and new discoveries is never closer. Same thing in religious circle with different views and opinions on issues (forget about the fanatics). Sometimes we give reason(s) for something and later we discover it's more than we thought.

All these point to one direction: man's knowledge of this gigantic universe is like a drop of water in ocean. Only the designer of the universe knows it all.

Trump backtracking on US war with Iran: So so quick

https://mobile.twitter.com/PressTV/status/1132924735371776000

ISRAELI EXPERT: U.S. CANNOT WIN A CONVENTIONAL WAR WITH IRAN, ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XVnuoKCfP8

Empiree:
Perhaps this refers to kufar.

So you don't know munafiqun were kuffar; 'Oh, worse than Kuffar.

In short, in one word, you cannot follow Allah and His Messenger in cursing the cursed.

"(Tell them Oh Prophet) If you love Allah, follow me...." Quran.

Empiree:

Does it matter?. They placed sahaba before for flow of rhythm i guess. After all, his ahlulbayt were his(saw) companions too. They get double blessings in the salawah.

You made mention of salat ibrahimiyyah, where is "sahabah" included in it?

Last time I checked Salat al-Fatih, there is no mention of "sahabah" in it.

The two is constant with Muhammad and Ahli Muhammad. That is the Sunnah. Plain and simple.

Even if you are to add, you gotta do it respecting the orderliness, not so called flow.

And sahabah were not his Ahlulbayt o. Ahlulbayt in salawat were just Ahlu kisa (Muhammad Rasulullah, Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husein). Ahli Muhammad means righteous offsprings of Muhammad.

Sahabah were sahabah. They do not and had never fit in those two categories, lugatan ao istilahan. And to separate intended Ahlulbayt in salawat from the wives of the Prophet, some salawat will mention the wives separately saying: "...wa ala azwaji Muhammad..."

Please this is not a race, don't lump things together all in the name of "does it matter". It sends bad signal and that is how bid'at is being created when proper rules and methodology are not followed.


This is Shia dua of tuesdays as reported from Imam Ali ibn Husein Zaynul Abideen (as):

"O Allah, send blessings upon Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets


and the completion of the number of the envoys,


and upon his Household, the good, the pure,


and upon his Companions, the distinguished..."


Note the sifat come alongside "his companions" distinguishing good from bad.

Empiree:
ee what you said?. You didnt say Allah and His messanger ordered us to curse fellow muslims. It is only the right of Allah and His messenger...not us.

Must Allah ordered you to do a good act before you do it? Where is it written that cursing the cursed is Allah's right alone?

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 159 - 161:

Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too)

Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth), these it is to whom I turn (mercifully); and I am the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all."

Empiree:

'fake', 'munafiq' are hidden traits. We have not been made to see through people's heart.

What unlock that "hidden traits" of munafiqun is Ali ibn Abi Talib. Munafiqun cannot stand his presence, mentioning of his name, mentioning of his virtues etc.

Anyone who has an atom size hate of Ali in his heart or action is a munafiq. Abdullah ibn Mas'ud said, "We used to recognize the munafiqun by their hate for Ali ibn Abi Talib."

Both Imam Muslim and Imam Tirmidhi document:

# Narrated 'Ali:

"The Prophet (s) - the Unlettered Prophet - exhorted me (saying): 'None loves you except a believer and none hates you except a hypocrite.'"


Grade : Sahih (Darussalam) 

English reference  : Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3736
Arabic reference  : Book 49, Hadith 4101
www.sunnah.com/tirmidhi/49


# Imam Abu Ya'la documents:

Narrated Abu ‘Abd Allah al-Jadali:

Umm Salamah said, “Why do you curse the Messenger of Allah upon the PULPITS?” I said, “How is that possible?” She said, “Don’t you curse ‘Ali and WHOSOEVER loves him? I testify that the Messenger of Allāh loved him

Source: Abu Ya’la Ahmad b. ‘Ali al-Tamimi al-Mawsuli, Musnad (Damascus: Dar al-Mamun li al-Turath; 1st edition, 1404 H) [annotator: Husayn Salim Asad], vol. 12, p. 444, # 7013

Empiree:

I think i have stated my reason. If Shi'a simply remain silent(no rodiyallahu) after the mention of a sahabi they dislike is better than cursing him.

Stop saying "Shia" in a general statement. A yes or no question: can you curse those Allah and His Messenger cursed?

Do you know Allah and His Messenger laid curse upon certain sahabah? Can you follow Allah and His Messenger in that act?

If you cannot (which is dislike to what Allah and His Messenger did), then why talking against those that chose to follow Allah and His Messenger?

Shia do not shy away from fact that a fanatical fraction among them usually curse certain sahabah that fall into their bad record. But majority of Shia do not engage in this act and leading Shia maraji have declared this silly act as Haram since it create more tension and chaos and disunity within the Muslim ummah. It is the Sunni that should stop playing sympathy card as if cursing sahabah is a bid'ah act and ticket to hell fire.

Not cursing the evil among the Sahabah is just courtesy. Some even deserved cursing every minute with ìwo.

Empiree:

Why focus is only on sahaba?. Allah and His messanger also cursed the one who collects riba, the one who pays riba and the two witnesses. So let's say a shia is much concerned about cursing a sahabi he is not comfortable with but he himself is dealing in riba transaction, dont you think the curse comes right back at him?. And why not simply curse those who take riba too in our contemporary world since Allah's curse is upon them too?. See, i guess what i have been trying to tell you is that if we all should start cursing by citing daleel, then we built self-destructive society for ourselves. Cursing someone is only right of Allah.

So can you follow Allah and His Messenger by cursing those who collect riba? The fact is that whether you curse the cursed or not, Allah and His Messenger's curse upon them is automatic. Cursing of a believer upon the cursed is just formality and a way of doing al-bara'a.

And I tell you with confidence that a true believer will not engage in riba act; therefore, it is yet another trait of munafiqun is collection of riba. And there are example of certain sahabah who collect riba and even did worse.

Empiree:

So why not simply abide by ruling of shia ulama instead of saying there are evidences for cursing some sahaba?. Make no mistake,i am aware shia only curse some sahaba not all of them. I think this is your concern.

Oh, you think my submissions are contradictory? Establishing the sunnatic nature of cursing and at the same time submitting our maraji's fatwa of not to curse any sahabah.

It is you that continuously negating the sunnah of cursing hence my drive to give you clear fact that cursing the cursed is an established sunnah of Islam.

Empiree:

Thats why both sides have more to do. I am never calling shia kufar. That makes no sense.

Now you can easily separate yourself but can easily generalized millions of people as "sahabah curser". Can you preach it to the Sunni/Salafi that cursing or hating or disliking sahabah does not in anyway make a Muslim a kafir?

Your hypocrisy knows no bound. Majority of sahabah hated, cursed and fought Ali ibn Abi Talib in particular and Ahlulbayt in general. You find excuses for them despite clearest ahadith mentioned above that only the munafiqun hate and curse Ali. On the other hand, it is okay to label Shia as sahabah curser and even declared them kuffar. Ilé lati k'eso rode.

"O you who believe, stand for justice ...." Quran.

Empiree:

But another kalifa would come second anyway even if S. Ali(ra) came first. Even if Ali(ra) ruled for 20yrs. I believe that Ali(ra) became 4th caliph was even better.

The more you stylishly run away from the main fact by bringing petty issues, the more I will keep on dragging you back on it.

Ali ibn Abi Talib was Allah and His Messenger's appointed Caliph over all Muslims. Pledging allegiance to him is submission to the will of Allah and His Messenger. Not recognizing and not pledging allegiance to him is dying the death of jahiliyyah.
What is the fate of those that were found wanting during and after (till date) of demise of Ali?

Empiree:

No be so?. Beliefs of muslims are the same with some slight differences in practicality. My analogy was based on succession in itself. The idea of succession is the same everywhere in the muslim community. Thats why I cited baba lagege(ra) and sheikh Nasirdeen Kabara(ra)

Again comparing death and sleep is a big problem. Please don't mention it again. It is disrespectful.

Empiree:

Is there anything we can do about a deed already done over 1400 years ago now?. It was sad but we cant help. One thing that is clear to me is that I will not be questioned about them.

You will bro. You will be questioned about the Wilayat, the Thaqalayn, the Khalifatayn. It squarely rest upon the validity of your faith and other things you do. "....whoever adhere to them will not go astray..."

Only he who will escape it is he who heard not or knows nothing about it.

Empiree:

perhaps you misunderstood this too?. I meant salawat we did at home back then always included ahlulbayt.

This is the salawa


allahumma salli ala sayyidina muhammad wa ala ali wa sahabiy wa ahlulbayt wa ala kulli min ajirin warajai


We said this salawa 1000/day in addition to solati Fatihi and Ibrahimiyah. In other word, we recognize AhlulBayt to the core.

I did not misunderstood anything. It is you I'm urging to understand things in their right perspective. To say "we include the Ahlulbayt in our salawat" is an insult to them except you do not know.

NB: Including sahabah in salawat is a new invention, and to meant all of them (without exception) in salawat is a double invention and to place them before the Ahlulbayt in salawat is the peak of that invention.

Had your salawat is rightly defined and well arranged, I would have use "good deed" instead of "invention".

aadoiza:

Are you insinuating that Shia are allowed to pray in sunni mosques, behind sunni imams? Subhanallah, the disinfo is real.

It is not insinuation. Mosque is for Allah, not Sunni or Shia. Besides, it is well established in Shia fiqh that Shia can pray behind Sunni Imam. I pray regularly behind Sunnis whenever I'm around in Naija. I pray salat al-Jumu'ah with the Sunnis.

Empiree:
I did this deliberately knowing you would object. I generalized only for the purpose of awareness. I am not unaware that you don't curse all sahaba. My point was simply to avoid cursing aslaf regardless of what they might have done. Let Allah decides there fate because, at the end of the day Allah will not ask our generation what they used to do. By we may be sinning for cursing them.

Sometimes you present yourself as if you believe in a part of the Quran and silently reject other part.

Whether you like it or not, Allah Himself has laid curse upon pseudo-Sahabah in His glorious book. Whether you like it or not, authentic ahadith exist that Prophet himself laid curse upon pseudo-Sahabah. Whether you like it or not, evidences abound that some sahabah cursed other sahabah.

So why shying away from reality as if cursing fake, munafiqun sahabah is a big deal?

Yet, upon all these overwhelming evidences, just like the salafi, you are equally playing that sympathetic card, "Shia are cursing the Sahabah".

And cursing is not an automatic magnet. If A is cursed or prayed for and did not deserved it, none of it will reach him. Imam Ali was cursed on the pulpit of Banu Umayah for more than 80 years. Imam Ali (alayhi salam) was depicted as shaytan. So if a Shia cursed a sahabi that Allah and His messenger cursed, how's that a big deal?

Upon all these, All the Shia maraji declared cursing ANY of the Sahabah or wife of the Prophet as HARAM. This was unanimous fatwa of Shia Ulama. Yet, this is not appreciated, Shia continues to be maligned as "Sahabah cursers". Please face reality: if our ulama declared cursing pseudo- Sahabah as wajib, salafi cannot do more than what they are doing against Shia: maligning them and suicide bombing them.

The more Shia is trying hard for Muslim unity, the more Shia is being treated as kuffar by the uninformed Sunni.

Empiree:

See, things happened for a reason. What if he actually ascended kalifa first and was killed the very next day?. Look around you today in Nigeria. All or most of the households of awliya Allah are having rival issues but this doesn't in anyway suggests or robs them off of their awliya status. As great as Sheikh Nasir kabara of Kano was his children are at each other's throats. Look at Sheikh Adam, his children are at each other's throats and it will continue like this till qiyama. Allah allows this fitna to reign as test and trial for household of His servants. He later picks from amongst them those who apply wisdom during this time. Roads are not always smooth.

Only Allah knows tomorrow not you. It is not ours to peep into, "what if he dies the next day". Ours is to see the truth and accept the truth. Period. Allegiance to he whom Allah and His Messenger appointed is the confirmation of one's Iman.

Making a parallel analogy between Prophet's declaration of Imam Ali as his immediate successor and Sheik Adam's sons tussle for their baba's successorship is far too low of a submission.

We are talking of what will confirm one's belief or Mar it. Here is my brother talking of Agege caliphate

Empiree:

it was normal for s. Fatima (ra) to oppose s. Abu Bakr (ra) for obvious reasons. As for the Hadith of two weighty, a Muslim must not exclude household of the prophet or relegate them. This is why in my family we always included alhuBayt in 1000 salawat we chanted daily

You mean it was normal that Bibi Fatima displeased with Caliph Abubakar and never spoken with him till she died?

I don't get it: "a Muslim must not exclude or relegate the Ahlulbayt"? What is that? Ahlulbayt are not seeking for anybody's sympathy faah. You adhere to them, your salvation is guaranteed. You adhere to other than them, then you go astray. It's your choice.

And I don't get it: "your family INCLUDE Ahlulbayt in their salawat" Don't you know that failure to include them make your salawat batil (null and void) ni?

aadoiza, Frenchkiss564

Salam alaykum dear brothers, I read all your comments from start to finish, attentively. No doubt you commentted from your heart based on your experience etc. I agree with your points in general.

However, aadoiza said, "I don't know if I should hold any belief in the superiority one of them over the others". My simple reply is why not if there are undeniable evidences? If Quran can say some Prophets are superior than others; and (also Quran says) some sahabah are superior than others, then what is big deal in researching into the matter of the first 4 Caliphs? Let's put aside sectarian emotions and embrace pure and thorough academic research.

That issue is extensively discussed here:
www.nairaland.com/3084627/did-some-sahaba-preferred-ali

https://www.nairaland.com/3038732/identifying-khulafau-rashidun-rightly-guided

Kindly find time to read.

aadoiza, there is no shia mosque in Lagos and Shia is not planning to have one in the southwest Nigeria. Exceess mosques does nothing but create divisions. However, there are few Shia centers in the southwest. Besides, there is a Shia sheik that leads prayer in a local mosque in Lagos Island and he's even the chief mufasir of Lagos Island central mosque.


Empiree, as much as I agreed with your points, there two ishkal in them:

1. Somehow you still continue to stylishly accuse Shia as "sahabah cursers". That might not be intended but the moment you write or talk in general without exception, no one will be interested in your intentions.

Just like you wouldn't want Sunni to be generalized with the actions of boko haram and isis (despite having same aqeedah and fiqh stand), it is important not to use general statement for Shia cursing sahabah.

Shia and sahabah in your comment are too general.

2. You said you agree Ali was supposed to be the rightful caliph but at the end he later became the caliph of the Muslim; so that shouldn't generate to what it is today.

My brother, although your thought is sincere but if you know the implications of that thought, you wouldn't go into such submission. The hadith of the Prophet:

* "Whoever dies without recognizing/pledging allegiance to the Amir/Imam/Caliph of his time, does the death of jahiliyyah"

* I left two weighty things/two Caliphs: if you adhere to them both, you will NEVER go astray: the book of Allah and my ahl al-bayt, my offspring. Both shall NEVER separate from each other..."

The implication of your statement is that those who died before Ali got to power and those who refused to give allegiance to Ali even till date died the death of jahiliyyah and are on the path of misguidance.

Why was Bibi Fatima NEVER gave allegiance to Caliph Abubakar and never spoken with him till she died? Do you think it was just about the fadak land brouhaha?

We might not accept lots of things but at least let's not shy away from facts especially when there are undeniable evidences to support it.

tintingz:
I think I will be creating a thread on morality and arguments on first cause being God, infinite and personal.

There should be a fresh thread for this and I would like Albaqir to be in that thread for discussion and arguments. It's ok if he ignores the thread.

With who? You? I guess you are feeling lonely again and needed more attention.

THIS ISN'T HOLLYWOOD MOVIE

No one pray for war but U.S. planned war with Iran will humiliate them.

true2god have you heard of "Iranian" Magrav technology No lailai. Oh...the god U.S. had developed alternative counter measures

If Iran decided to use her Magrav technology which obviously she will use, all the U.S. war aircraft will be like ordinary dove birds in the sky. Remember (if you even know) Iran has the largest captured U.S. most advanced spy and "war" drones, in the world.

Read more about Magrav technology:

https://www.trinfinity8.com/magrav-technology-recent-war-games-over-europe/

https://www.keshefoundation.org/plasma/space-technology


When the bully in the white house threatened to hit Iran with "fire and fury", Western nightmare General Qassim Suleimani had this to say:


“ We are near you, where you can’t even imagine…Come; we are ready. We are the man of this arena. You know that this war would mean annihilation of all your means. You may begin the war, but it is us who will end it,” - Iranian General Qassim Suleiman (No. 1 rated thinker in Foreign Policy (FP)’s 2019 list of Global Thinkers in the defense and security field.)

Empiree:
Timeline... timeline... timeline





Yet, he doesn't believe




Let's see after he watched it






Lobatan

The guy's brain is so predictable. I thought na only me dey laugh no jare when our wannabe atheist said Hamza Tzortzis is brilliant. I said to myself, "fake news, he will change gear after the show"

Empiree, kindly find time to watch the video and see how brilliant Hamza completely destroyed the then so-called Atheist president. The video no get part 2

Islam or Atheism - Debate with Hamza Andreas Tzortzis & the president of American Atheists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpquNiEScek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGSBl53JBJg

"IF YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT A NEVER END WAR IS, THAT'S (GONNA BE) A WAR WITH IRAN" - U.S. Presidential hopeful, Bernie Saunders


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk51dMh3y5c


WAR WITH IRAN WILL BE UNMITIGATED DISASTER


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uz-tf9kqWo

true2god:
RT is the defacto news agency of Iran after Russia. This is pure propaganda. No one can impeach prez Trump till 2024 when he would have completed his 8years in office. Donald Trump does not like Iran the same way Barrack Hussein Obama does not like Israel.

Like I said, sometimes you sound emotionally disturbed and comment ignorantly. RT quoted U.S. senator and house of representative. Were those individuals also Iranian and Russian "news agents"?.

Please clear the cobwebs in your eyes.

IRAN WAR MIGHT JUST BE A DECOY

true2god:
A great video, the analysis was sound. What you failed to understand is that policy is shaped by govt in power and not journalists. Before the Iraqi invasion, some media houses condemned the plan, including the current President, but Prez Bush went ahead and the result was catastrophic because Iraq, in the next 20 years, can never be organized and nothing tangible was achieved in the war.

On Iran, you will remember that between 2015 and 2016 the Iranian navy (their speed boat) was harassing a nuclear powered naval task force and their aircraft carrier. What do you think? A small canoe harassing a merchant ship! The Iranians were even bold enough to capture US sailors, filmed them crying and posted it on the internet. What did Obama do? He begged Iran and gave them 1.4billion dollar in raw cash for their bad behavior.

A new sheriff is now in town that will not tolerate that bad behaviour. You don't threaten a nuclear and a superpower which Iran did in the past. A superpower will be arrogant of course; the Persians at the height of their power was equally arrogant and was invading countries too. Go and read the history of the Persians. If tomorrow Iran becomes a superpower their arrogance will be worse than that of the US, just take a look at the Ottoman empire of yesterday and you will see the ways the invaded and destroyed Christian land in eastern Europe. The effect of the occupation of the Ottomans still have a bad effect in eastern Europe till date making it hard for them to catch up with western Europe in terms of technological advancement.

Do not come here to pretend as if Iran is clean and will not do the worse if the reverse is the case. Just like the Ottomans, the medieval Persian empire was built of the blood and sufferings of their neighbours.

Come to the local level here in Nigeria, hope you can see the arrogance and the impunity of the Fulani people in corporate Nigeria? Read the current statement of Olusegun Obasanjo on this issue. If a backward Islamic Fulani people can be so arrogant in corporate Nigeria, how much more a more advanced Iranian people if they control global power?

Sometimes you sound intelligent and a times you sound stark ignorant. On the first video, you saw those as propaganda and so much believe your American god will just roll over Iranian just like that. Like I said you made god of U.S. despite you denying it. Anyway, na your opinion be that.

In the second video, because it was an analysis by an American, you quickly believed it and called it "sound". So did he hyped Iranian strength too since U.S. is god to you?



Iran’s TERRIFYING military strength REVEALED: Tehran tensions with US soar

On Sunday the US carried out a simulated military exercise in the Arabian Sea to show Washington’s “lethality and agility to respond to threat”. Iran boasts one of the most powerful militaries in the world - and the second-strongest in the Middle East - according to shock analysis by warfare experts. Global Fire Power (GFP) reviewed Iran’s military strength this year and ranked it 14 out of the 137 nations analysed so far.

 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1130781/iran-news-US-war-iran-military-strength-us-military-middle-east


Lastly, Obama did not bribed Iran. That's clearly show your ignorance or mentality of the fool in the white house. For your information if you don't know or reminder if you forgot, Iran simply won what belonged to her. It was their money and they've been in the case to get the money back before you were born (I guess). Obama administration was simply cornered to pay the money which was due as part of nuclear deal.

TRUMP says THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IS PRESSURISING HIM TO WAR WITH IRAN


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08j-kaXHobY

IRAN READY TO RETALIATE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rc0aVvm1Rs

tintingz:
No, they were not perfectly answered or I won't be asking those questions and secondly they didn't give Alex(the atheist) much time to even respond to their arguments. The moderation of that debate is poor. I've watched many debates that are far better than this.

- How is Allah self-sufficient when he interferes/intervene in the universe? Where do you put the deist God? (I would like to hear their or your response to that)

- Their morality argument can easily be refuted, they have asked how's their morality objective when there are various religions and cultures with their moralities, lol the other Muslim guy was just strawmaning that atheist dont have morals so they have no say in morality. How is this a "perfect" answer? Is that even a counter argument?

- They(Muslim debaters) accepted they don't claim to fully understand the universe, how tha hell are they now certain about God's attributes and existence? Atheist never claim we came from nothing, most atheists are agnostic and accept "they don't know", Alex(atheist) said "we have never experienced "nothing" so we shouldn't base argument on that.
And it seems they don't even know what "nothing" is in quantum physics, I think Alex tries to educate them on that but he wasn't given much time. Maybe you should explain how Allah created from nothing and came from nothing.

I can go on and on with this counter argument, I took my time to listen to their responses, they were not satisfying and are flawed, I've to criticize it, it's part of leaning, you don't expect me to learn nonsense!
This debate is like rewatching same argument I've watched from other debates but this one here is poor.

If there's one thing the rookie Alex did right before he arrogantly and shamelessly (like you) retracted his initial acceptance, was when he accepted that there must be a "necessary existence" to cause the confidence existence. When you admit that, you don't need to bring a pathetic point as he did when he said, "but it doesn't really matter that it is your God".


Here I'm not interested in going via a cyclic arguments with you. Continue fighting your soul/self perhaps your arrogance that still block your senses might be removed.

true2god:
Sorry bro, no sane man wants a military struggle between Iran and the US but if it does happen, do you seriously think Russia and China will directly attack the US? Do you think two nuclear superpowers will go on each other's throat because of a client state? In the 1962 Cuban missile crisis and the 1974 Israeli-Arab conflict, both the Russians and the Chinese were forced to back out as soon as the US raised their military readiness to DEFCON-2, what gives you the impression that it will be different now. It will be a mutually assured destruction (MAD) if both the US and Russia go into war and no sane nuclear power can do that. Russia cannot even attack a nuclear-armed Israel. It seems you have a limited knowledge of global military affairs. You need to concentrate more on the Quran and the hadith if you think that Russia and China can threaten the US and take a step further into a military conflict.

If the US attacks Iran, the worst Russia and China will do is go to the UN security council and condemn the attack, or better still, arm Iran with their latest S-400 to take on US aircraft. That's all. If you think Russia will send an ICBM to the US, you must be kidding.

I just don't get it why you guys continue to make God out of U.S. The worst U.S. can do is to use her nuclear weapons. Aside that, I dont think U.S. is ready to count her losses. No doubt Iran will be heavily affected but the war will go on a very looooong time. U.S. struggled in Afghanistan for 17 years still counting. Iraq was a huge mistake for them. Yes, U.S. "destroyed" those places but they still blame themselves till date.

For a fact, all the U.S. intelligence agencies have gone against Donald Dumb administration's plan to war with Iran. This intelligence came after they have carried out their simulation tests. The region is not favorable for U.S. Iran is the master of that region.

And I did not submit that Russia and China will confront the U.S., you are the one assuming too much. What is predictable of Russia is to sell weapons to Iran just like Russia did to Syria and Egypt in 1955/56 against Isra-hell before both end call the war off. China is unpredictable but their goal of overtopping the US economic wise might make them contribute.

US spent $3 trillion in Iraq war alone making them highest debtor. How much do they planned to spend and how much do they planned to lose if they go to war with Iran?

Like I said, you guys watch American movies too much and probably hoodwinked by the CNN, fox news and other U.S. fake news agencies. U.S. is not god. And Iran is no push over.

falopey:
Another mouth making. Na so we make mouth for saddam Iraq, nothing happened. Ghaddafi Libya, nothing happened. Taliban Afghanistan, nothing happened. Now it’s Ayatollah Iran . Una guys still dey make mouth again.

Iran should refrain from war because they will be the one to suffer economically as their oil facilities would not be spared from aerial bombardment. So the economy badly would be affected with millions of civilian casualties as the war would be fought on Iranian soil and not on American soil. That fact alone is a number one defeat for Iran while American civilians would be sipping their coffee as the war progresses on Iranian soil:

Make una keep making foolish mouth about how Iran would finish America on Iran soil o putting innocent civilians at risk.

It's like you love watching too much American Hollywood action movies

Anyway, no one has ever claim Iran can match the U.S. militarily on paper. If US mission in abovementioned counties failed woefully, Iran will be their last lesson. Mind you, China and Russia are seriously looking for opportunities to pounce on the U.S.

Anyway, this is someone who knows it all better than you Hollywood film watcher Listen to him:

tintingz:


Ok, just finished watching this, it's quit interesting but not that intellectual. I've watched many debates, this doesn't come close.

And oh that's Alex O'Connor, I've watched his videos on YouTube and I must say he's more intelligent for that his age. Look at him taking up those two Muslim men looking like Jidenna , the old dude was just looking like he was watching Liverpool vs Barcelona game, I think he's wondering and doesn't get how this Muslim guys talk with certainty that their world view and morality is absolute and they don't see how absurd they sound, someone even asked similar question from the audience.

Albaqir, I think I must ask some questions which I gain from this video and I think some has been addressed in this thread already, the questions are,

- Why do you think Allah is self-sufficient from this universe? Any logical reason?

- If the universe came into existence as a result of necessity, does the cause of this necessity has to be God? If yes, what evidence do you have to justify this claim?

- If everything must have a cause, why do you think Allah should be exempted from "everything", what logical argument do you have for that? And why do you think Allah must be the first cause and nothing before him?

- If infinite regress is a fallacy, does Allah being infinite a fallacy too?

- What do you say about morality, is it objective or subjective or both and why do you think your God morality is the absolute morality? And also, do you think without God there can't be morality?

- If you believe the universe "need" God to sustain it, can you describe how a universe without God would be?

All your questions have been perfectly answered in the video. Unfortunately it seemed you weren't watching to learn but as usual criticize and take side.

You can rewatch perhaps you will get your answers this time.

Peace.

ISLAM VS ATHEISM (MAY 2019, OXFORD)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-zYRZy5NQ

# Arrogance of Trump

# Hatred for Obama and his achievements

# Mentality of White supremacist

# Childish bullying

In 1979 when Islamic revolution took place in Iran which flushed out Iranian US puppet, the Shah of Iran, and US embassy in Iran under siege with 10s of US spies in the embassy taken hostage, the U.S. deployed 5 of their largest war hawk birds (helicopters) to change the situation in Tehran. The mission failed woefully and they left with their tail behind their legs.

Both countries today have developed military drastically and no doubt US is on paper far stronger than Iran.

If U.S. mission (With the support of the Europeans) in Iraq cost them fortune making them highest debtor in the world, and with 1000s of American soldiers sent to their early grave (And of course Iraq was wrecked with 100 of 1000s Iraqis dead); Is U.S. ready for a more larger, more experienced, more powerful Iran (compare to Iraq) with support of China and especially Russia?

Obviously the whole of middle East will engulfed in flames.

HOW IRAN PLANNED TO RESPOND


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aFKYFh20EU


https://www.purestream-media.com/portfolio/if-america-attacks-iran-five-areas-of-retaliation-english/

Empiree:

As albaqir successfully argued his way out in this topic, if he uses the same approach on other practice (s) of Shia, it will hunt him too bcuz he strictly adheres to definition of bidia. That's bidiah is bidiah, good or bad leads astray according to him. This is exactly what Salafi imam where I pray says too.

All of us are full of double standards.

I have clearly submitted my firm understanding and believe about meaning and requirements of Bid'at. So, how would I ever be hunted by that like the salafi?

aadoiza:

I think Albaqir is purposely doing this to expose the double standard therein.



Some no go wan agree with this. Sectarianism has consumed the better part of some people's brains.

Purposely? Why would you think like that? I am not comparing Sunnism and Shiism here brother. Tarawih is an outright bid'at in Shi'i fiqh. Even the so called 23rd, 25th and 27th nights that Sunni hadith said Prophet prayed qiyam al-layl in congregations is not accepted in Shi'i school. Yet, I brought that option based on what Sunni documented. Unfortunately here you accusing me of doing it deliberately out of sectarianism. Subhanallah.

On one hand, you yourself clearly stated you don't buy the laughable "linguistic" excuse of Sunni/Salafi scholars saying the "Bid'at" used by Umar is just in a linguistical term; yet, you still believe there is nothing wrong in that Bid'at. Which way are you going ganngan brother?

I'm NOT doing anything deliberately out of sectarianism o.

sino:

Note if you may, the information about the duration of these nights, one third of the night, from midnight, and almost the whole night!

"From midnight, and almost the whole night" is no doubt different from immediately or some minutes after salat al-Ishai when nobody has slept yet.

sino:

The narrations you have brought does not in any way limit qiyamu layl to just 3 nights, nor does it prohibit observing qiyamu layl in congregation in other nights! How you managed to get these conclusions is mind boggling, but I'm not surprised!

No One is arguing the tradition limited the Qiyam al-layl to just 3 nights, rather the limitation is in congregation, and that was for the purpose of night of majesty.


I just wonder why is this clear tradition is being smuggled to fit 29 or 30 days congregational tarawih immediately after Ishai or some minutes later?

Do you know more than the Prophet? Imitation of him is to do exactly what he does: that's the path of salaf al-Salih no more no less.