₦airaland Forum

Acess Banks makes gross earnings of N40bn every 3days, yet they're planning EGM to just approve PP of N40bn. Pa Emma thinks because you earn, you don't need to raise more capital for growth.
It must be that PRESCO has not be earning for them to be raising funds via RI.

By the way, I think the people who named that instrument Rights Issue are conny.

Cos if makes people feel good to say they're taking their rights even if they get to pay unnecesary premiums.

mikeapollo:
For individuals, the relevant law is PIT, and there is nothing to suggest that a 25% flat rate is consistent with the new law or even the existing PIT rates.

Yes.
Sometimes too, people who write headline captions phrase them inaccurately.

mikeapollo:
I am beginning to think this Taiwo Oyedele does not know what he is talking about. He seems to be talking anyhow in desperation to please and impress the govt at all costs.
Who reduced the CGT rate from 30% (as passed by law) to 25%? For individuals, how did they determine that every person (or CG gain of N10m and above) is assessable to PIT at 25%?
Without the NASS amending the CGT law, any implementation of same contrary to what the law says is a breach of the law and provides a perfect opportunity for the implementation to be injuncted or scrapped all together.
Their demonic fixation on extorting and stealing from investors will surely hit the rocks! Clueless, reckless, money-sucking govt with nothing to show for all the revenue from subsidy removal, energy tariff hikes, floating the naira and countless loans taken all within 2 years.

Again CGT really no longer exists, it's been subsumed by CIT and PIT.

There's already provision to reduce CIT to 25% next year, hence the reason capital gains will be taxed at that rate cos it'll be reckoned as part of CIT.

deathwing:
Oh you don't stay in lagos. Noted.

I do stay in Lagos.
Power cost is almost the same nationwide though. It's set by NERC.

deathwing:
I, living alone, was paying more than double of that a year before all this band talk sef.

Ahh..
There's also the possibility of the meter having debt on it if you're not the landlord.

If there's debt on your meter, whatever you recharge, about 40-50% would go into repaying the debt.

So while i'll pay just 10k for like 150 units, you would pay 17 - 20k for the same units if we're in the same band.

Much worse if you're in band A, and your meter still has debt, that's double shege.

awesomeJ:
Interesting thing about trading volumes:

I was using the factor 1.0220375 to calculate my break even prices and thus my profits.
After many months i noticed my portfolio value was lower by about 40k, one reason being that if you place an order for 10,000 units, sometimes it gets filled once, costing you just 4.20 in X-Alert fees, some other times same order would take up to 10 trades to fill, costing N42 instead, but the 1.0220375 only factored in N4.2 hence the c. 40k shortfall after a while.

In July, i decided to just use 1.023 and rest.

Now that small 0.0009625 has not only cleared the 40k shortfall, I now even have like 120k surplus.

120k is significant to me. It's enough to pay my current power bill for a year!

These are the sort of nuances I hope to confuse the tax man with next year if I move away from Lagos.

He'll just be like "oga abeg how much you want pay" No scatter my head. 😁😁😁 Cos most tax payers in my state are civil servants. Even N1m in annual taxes might rank me among the highest tax payers. But staying in Lagos would be different.

deathwing:
Where you dey pay 120k per year for Nepa?

I live in band B! we enjoy subsidy.

Interesting thing about trading volumes:

I was using the factor 1.0220375 to calculate my break even prices and thus my profits.
After many months i noticed my portfolio value was lower by about 40k, one reason being that if you place an order for 10,000 units, sometimes it gets filled once, costing you just 4.20 in X-Alert fees, some other times same order would take up to 10 trades to fill, costing N42 instead, but the 1.0220375 only factored in N4.2 hence the c. 40k shortfall after a while.

In July, i decided to just use 1.023 and rest.

Now that small 0.0009625 has not only cleared the 40k shortfall, I now even have like 120k surplus.

120k is significant to me. It's enough to pay my current power bill for a year!

dammybrite:
Weldone, awesomej. Is the said software used for trading or simply trade reconciliation? I'm guessing it's a custom tool

It's custom. I shared its details here at the time, that was the start of the derangment from that guy osita whatever

I vibecoded it in flask. I use Ruby on Rails professionally.

deathwing:
Ohhh...my cost price is now N1100 (began buying at 900 or so), so it wouldn't make sense for me.

Just ask him nicely to explain the maths. Maybe there's a prespective he has that you're currently missing. It might be worth it.

chimex38:
It's intriguing.
All I can say is you seem to be a master of this game to a large extent..

Whatever works for you, stick with it. It's probably your mojo

There may be risks but refining them is better than bailing out, especially if it has worked for you severally.
me, I just can't can

Exactly.

Same way I can't do all these buy, wait, sell. It's extremely boring to me, never works always ends in losses, but some people who are good at it make up to 500%, they should stick with it.

chimex38:
If I get your discuss thus far.
You don't want a lien on any of your assets or pledge collateral with a loan of 30%-35%(secured loan).

But you prefer an interest rate even up 60-80% provided no strings attached as collateral
(unsecured loan).

Yes.
Except that the range I prefer is 30-80%, lower is better.

emmanuelewumi:
Give unsecured N30 million loan on what basis,

They will either write your employer and find out what you have in your Retirement Savings Account to know if you are qualified for such loans then the tenor will be extremely short probably for a maximum of 3 months.


Your secured loan can run for 5 years and above

You're taking the N30m figure out of context.

Check the conversation again, the only time I mentioned N30m loan was in the context of Ucap which is a secured facility.


I haven't mentioned any loan amount I want as far as unsecured facilities are concerned, it's only the pricing i've mentioned cos that's all i'm after. Give me even 60% unsecured, then whther it's 1, 2, 5 or 10m, I'll take it.

emmanuelewumi:
Nobody will even give him unsecured loan of that value.

He can get unsecured loan that is equivalent to 35% of his monthly salary or guaranteed monthly income

The pricing is what i'm after. If the 34% Loco mentioned is real or the 36% you mentioned. Then even if it's N2m, I'll take it. It'll basically be free money cos i'll make more than 136% on it within 12 months, covering both interests and principal.

Good thing though, while i want the good offer i do not need it. In January I took Oxygen X at 156% cos I most desperately needed it, today, I'm rejecting Renmoney at 92% cos I can afford to.

I'll take renmoney at 80% though if they revise, but it'd be a steal to find the 36% levels you mentioned.

Locotrader:
O

Don't mind
Just focus on the screen.
Your own trading skills needs to be on the screen from 10am-2.20pm daily.
When I grow up,I will like to trade like you.

life isn't that hard my brother.
God's blessings can eliminate complex efforts for you. I could be on this forum all day long, or be debugging crazy bugs on vs code, or be on Netflix, I'll still make money in the market, rain or shine, bull or bear.

emmanuelewumi:
You can also google the thoughts of some reputable stock traders

To what end?

You should only advise someone who tells you they're struggling to seek such information.

I have more success than i target in the market bull or bear, so why waste my time on irrelevant opinions.

I get excited though, when some people think my earnings aren't real, or Loco says it's impossible to not be in a loss, it makes me appreciate God's blessing more. Cos for most people, it's indeed impossible, so thank God for me.

deathwing:
1-2% ke?

Ah, this is serious o. Goodluck on your travels. It sounds crazy but I guess it works for you. I'm sure you have like two monitors just to look at order book

I do have two screens. The other one is to look at Netflix.
Thinking it requires complex efforts is a wrong assumption

I don't need luck, monkey hunting or patience, All i need is for the market to be open.

emmanuelewumi:
Some thoughts on over trading

Read the Ai's conclusion. Don't try it as an inexperienced person o. I'd say learn for 5 years first and build a profitable strategy as the AI suggests, otherise, even if your portfolio is N100m, it'll only take 2.5 years to hit 0 if you're paying N3m in trading fees monthly.

But if you see someone that has consistently done it for years, then what you need to do is calm down and learn from them if you're interested, not trying to advise on what you don't understand.

emmanuelewumi:
Yes it is possible to trade more with the profits, while is better to use that to increase the trading capital.

Most of the stocks that suffered in the last 2 years, and had their shareholders fund wiped out were those that were over leveraged and under capitalized for the size of business they were doing

what's the difference here?
if you trade more with the profits, it simply means you've used the profits to increase the trading capital na? abi what are you trying to mean?

emmanuelewumi:
While looking at the upside once in a while, it is good to look at the down side thrice in a while.

Your over trading is more than enough to accelerate and scale

You do not have enough context to make this conclusion, you're assuming based on limited information.
If you had overtraded with N2m and it was enough for you to scale to N2bn, then maybe I would agree with you, but as it is, you do not even have any experience at all with trading or overtrading, what makes you think you know what's enough?

Locotrader:
Okay oooo.
You made it clear to me when you contacted me to recommend the cheapest digital broker which I called out Atlas portfolios.I don't forget easily

Pls unsecured loan is not good for you.
If you insist, moniepoint is your partner in this case @ 34%

Do you mean i can just reach out to moniepoint right now, and all they'll do is run checks on my turnover with other banks, the run credit checks and be ready to give me an offer? if that's the case, that would be the best news this month. That's how Renmoney operates. but if it's a case of they'll ask me to run account for 6 months, then use the turnover on my moniepoint account, it'll still be better, but obviously right now is better than 6 months.

By the way, when i asked you about Atlass, what I made clear was my trading volume (cos that really what matters in the context of trading fees) not my portfolio size. thanks again for the advise.

deathwing:
How much do you pay in fees on a <50m portfolio doing 800m turnover? How many % do you usually scalp off a stock to make it worth it? My mind cannot imagine the frequency of your trading

very high! sometimes up to 1% of deals.
fees are about 1.1%
margins are 1-2%

why am i answering you though?
I assume you're asking in good faith.

Now, I've heard some people talk about working for brokers making it seem like brokers getting huge fees off you is such a bad thing??

It's a joy for me to know that I have 2 diffrent brokers that will make 500k each off my account ever single month without fail. My target is to get it to a minimum of N1m for each broker next year.

how's that bad? If they have someone on their payroll on 400k salary, i'm basically doing enough to pay 2 such persons at both my brokers, why shouldn't that be exciting for an activity i do conveniently and remotely? It gives me huge joy. The only problem is if you yourself aren't making money. That's not just bad, it makes the whole arrangement unsustainable!

Locotrader:
I don't need anyone to tell me he is crashing in trading.

His level of trading doesn't need unsecured loan if he is really making money.

Well you're wrong to think there's a crash any where. I can't even remember the last time i had a weekly red. Even daily reds are so few, they can be counted.
If you want, pick any week at random between August and Now, I'll show you it's green. (August cos that's when i started using my current software)

If you want a N500m portfolio, and you have N30m, you can choose to grow at N3m per month for maybe a decade before you hit your target, or you can seek to find leverage that'll help you grow at twice the speed (N6m monthly) and cut the time to 3 years.

That's the maths, seeking leverage doesn't mean you aren't making profits? why would you even assume that?

If i wasn't making profits? N2.5m in monthly trading fees would have sent me back to village na.

emmanuelewumi:
What Awesome is doing is extremely dangerous.

I think he should use part of his trading profits to beef up his trading capital and also create other sources of income apart from capital appreciation from stocks

What you haven't mastered will definetly be dangerous.
I remember when I couldn't put more than 20% of my assets in stocks, I was heavy in fixed income. That was what my experience and skills at the time could support. If you're still there, and you try to imitate my decisions, you're on your own.

Where I am now, I can comfortably put 500% of my investable assets on the NGX, cos what i trade is certainty!

the 400% leverage is what I'm trying to find.

Your point about using part of profits is a no brainer, it's a given.
when i started making comments on my trading volumes earlier this year, It was around N100m per month, now the volume is like 2.5x, that growth has only come from profits.

Locotrader:
@Awesomej

Why are you looking for unsecured loan at this time stocks are almost at the climax?

Anyway if you bank with Moniepoint,it's done at 34% per anum.With your average monthly turnover,you get the funds quickly after verifications.

I will advice you stay clear from loans.
Afterall you have made it clear to us you trade with above N1B.
What's the essence of loan at this level?

To ask of unsecured loan means you don't have a tangible collateral to sustain your loan.

I would have helped if I know you in person for this loan at 20-25% (personal loan)

@the bolded, you must have misinterpreted my communication.
What I said was that I'm currently on a target to trade N1bn per quarter,
It doesn't mean my portfolio is that large. I can do up to 20x my portfolio in a quarter, maybe even more than 25x if the market isn't slow.

that implies i need less than N50m portfolio to trade N1bn in a quarter. My current portfolio is indeed below N50, but my trades are N700 - N800m per quarter.

Why do I need the loan?? To scale! For me, Leverage = acceleration.

emmanuelewumi:
You did not understand her


If you have N30 million worth of acceptable stocks Ucee Microfinance Bank a subsidiary of United Capital will give a loan of N10 million.

You can only trade with N10 million, a lien will be placed on your N30 million portfolio.

It is not a margin loan but a retail asset backed loan

Why did you assume that I did not understand her? why was that your preferred inference, why couldn't you imagine that she spoke without fully understanding the terms, - which was indeed the case?

Na wah o, You people just like to rush to conclude on what you do not understand.

Like I said she said she would find out more and call back, and she did, even she herself knew the issue was that she didn't have the right information, but you prefer to think you've seen someone who didn't understand basic communication

emmanuelewumi:
Why just 30% loan when the trading turnover is N500 million?

Why just N30m you mean?

I don't need N500m portfolio To trade N500m monthly.

I can do over 7x my portfolio size monthly.

So with a N70m or slightly less I'll do N500m (N250m, N250m sell)

If the market isn't sluggish I could even do it with a N50m portfolio.

emmanuelewumi:
Reason why you should shop around

Yes. Thanks for the help sir.
I'll make more calls to see where I can get a balance: Margin loan offer with reasonable brokerage fees.

I spoke with someone from UCEE MFB this morning, she gave the impression that if I had N30m of my own money and took a N10m facility from them, I would only be able to trade on N30m rather than N40m, I was like what then is the essence of the loan? she said she would ask and get back 😁.

emmanuelewumi:

I am surprised that you have been trading for years and you don't know how margin loans operate.

You can trade the stocks, but you can't pull money out, you can use the money made from trading to buy more shares, you can only pull money out of you have a robust margin cover.

That is what GTB can give based on your monthly cash flow, and you know that the loan was not secured.

If you pay every month, my 27% loan will be around 21%.

You make it sound like it's such a a common offering in this market, I think it isn't. I was at MCSE's office in 2021 to discuss this specifically, the response I got was that as much as they were willing to do it, the SEC had suspended it.

So there's nothing wrong if I don't understand the exact terms of the facility you have with your bankers. Since I haven't signed any such contracts, I've only been a trader. The two aren't pari passu.

emmanuelewumi:
So you can pull out N50 million from the portfolio or use it to pay down your loan. This will reduce your debt from N100 million to N50 million.

And then give you a margin cover of 400%.

Total portfolio of N200 million divided by loan of N50 million

This is brilliant.
The only catch is the 1% brokerage fees.
Maybe if I trade up to N500m monthly I could negotiate 0.5% with them.

Cos otherwise at 1% , I would be paying extra N2.5m in trading fees monthly, N30m yearly, whereas the loan I take itself would be less than N30m.

Someone here mentioned the possibility of getting concessions from one of my brokers, I tried, and I got it. Maybe it'll be possible with UCAP too.

emmanuelewumi:
But why should I be looking for unsecured loans if you are so sure of what you want to do with the loan.

You can get an unsecured loan if your personal brand and reputation is more than the loan.

Looking for unsecured loan isn't about being unsure of what one is using the money for, on the contrary, due to the very high pricing of such loans, you especially need to be very sure of what you're doing with it, otherwise taking loans at up to 156% annualized would be a recipe for high blood pressure pro max 😁.

Why would I take unsecured loans?: It's simply cos of the ease. Like I don't have to tie down my stocks or be forced to move to a broker that charges higher fees etc. These guys just simply check bank account turnover, your credit profile and disburse quickly.

The only catch is the pricing. Which is why you mentioning 36% for such a facility is music to my ears 😁 The best I've ever gotten is 87% the worst is 156%.


GTBank though gives me 21% on their Quick Credit product, but the facility is small cos it's a function of my salary size I suppose.

emmanuelewumi:
What is the loan for? That will assist on how to go about it

To trade NGX 😁.