₦airaland Forum

@Nwando

Let me use a stone (post) to kill your two birds (posts)

These folks have issues O
major one
so they've found yet another Mo in the "corrupted Bible" as they claim.
or has all'ah finally produced the Torah he's been hiding?
Is the Great Book not enough to sustain it's claims

Well if you care to know, Alla h will always be in the revealed revelations because he sent all the revelations

Ebelebe!
wash a pig,spray am perfume even wear am make up withy faux eyelashes
You may call her miss piggy but at the end of the day,she belongs as bacon on a breakfast table

?

na today we start to see awusa with bow and arrow?

@Sysuser


You can post your lies for all I care and if you think that you are ready for an intelligent discussion and ready to learn, moving away from your ignorant state to that of knowledge, give me your supposed contradictions one at a time and we discuss and not littering threads with what you will not be able to defend when we start.

So if you are ready to learn, let me have them one at a time and we discuss rather than your unreasonable way of posting.

@4him

Has it really?

Sure it has

Look closely at this:

Ok

why did God categorically claim to be the "Lord God of Israel"? If indeed this was al'lah speaking then why did he refuse to acknowledge himself as the God of Ishmael in a chapter that was supposedly prophesying about moh'ammad?

That goes a long way to show you Israel and Arabs worship the same God unlike you people that worship three in one god.

Has truth really come?

Keep sounding delusioned. You provide your rebuttal and we discuss.

@4Him

Blabs787, you're making too much noise quoting irrelevant documents that are at best suspect if not fraudulent.

Have you been able to provide rebuttal to the source?

Simple question . . . the names of Isaac and Abraham were mentioned in that surah and that of the supposed fellow who was to be sacrificed "Ishmael" completely absent?

If your mind is not befogged, you would have read that it was referring to Ishmael despite the fact that it didnt mention his name but reading through the verses, you would see that Isaac was mentioned just to show Ishmael was really the son and I read

Another question for you blind dolts - Why are you quoting suspect JEWISH sources to support your lies? Is there NO SINGLE SHRED of evidence from the descendants of Ishmael?

Keep asking stupid question. You should have provided rebuttal or another source to refute the source I gave to you and not making noise over what you couldnt defend afterall I gave you a source different from my own religion and from Encyclopaedia Judaica!!!. So you may tender your own source apart from your own book and we discuss.

You fraudulently said below:

Ok let us see

Sir, the oxford companion to the bible did not echo your position, it was merely reporting the very many untruths that mus'lims have forced into the biblical narrative to smuggle Ishmael in . . . notice the red flag use of "in mus'lim tradition . . ."

Can we have what it echoed and we use it as part of our guide to the issue being discussed?

@4him

I might have missed a lot but in order to arrest the situation and make it understandable I have decided to start from where you stopped so that there would be proper follow up and here I go with your last post.

Qur'an 37: 100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to God), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ,
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

Here is the problem with the qur'anic description of the sacrifice . . . Ishmael is not mentioned ONCE! Did al'lah also forget him or was his name smuggled out by christian writers?

Now I read your deceipt therein hence my starting from the above verses. If you have not been deceiving yourself, the above verse seems to be self explanatory and it make us realise that it was after the sacrifice that Isaac was born. Read from that 100 you posted above down to 111 and you would see that it was after this inceident that Isaac was born and in case you missed the explanation, here are the verses again and please note my highlighted words:


99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to God), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! , 
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.

112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.

113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

Hope you have seen it that God referred to Ishmael and Isaac was born after that incident hence from v 112 above.


Let us read the opinion of Judeo-Christian Scholars viewpoint on the same issue which goes thus:

The Encyclopaedia Judaica says:

In the tale of binding (surah 37:99-110) The Great Prophet identified the son who was to be sacrificed as Ishmael and, indeed, the opinion of the traditionalists were also divided on this subject. It is related that a renowned traditionalist of Jewish origin, from the Qurayza tribe, and another Jewish scholar, who converted to The Great Religion, told that Caliph Omar Ibn Abd al-Azîz (717-20) that the Jews were well informed that Ismail was the one who was bound, but that they concealed this out of jealousy. The Great One legend also adds details of Hajar (Hagar), the mother of Ismail. After Abraham drove her and her son out, she wandered between the hills of al-Safa and al-Marwa (in the vicinity of Mecca) in search for water. At that time the waters of the spring Zemzem began to flow. Her acts became the basis for the hallowed custom of Great Ones during the Hajj.


The testimony of the former Jew as mentioned hadîth literature as quoted in the Encyclopaedia Judaica reads:

Another proof of our speech[b] [i.e., that sacrificed was Ishmael][/b] is reported by Ibn Ishâq: "The Great Prophet Ibn Ka'b narrated that Umar Ibn Abd al-Azîz sent for a man who had been a Jew then converted to The Great Religion and showed signs of true The Great Religion. [Before his conversion], he was one of their scholars [i.e., he was a Jewish scholar] So he [i.e., Umar] asked him: which son did Abraham sacrifice? He replied: 'It is Ishmael. By God, O Commander of the Believers, the Jews know that but they envy you - the Arabs.

The Oxford Companion To The Bible echoes the same position as the Encyclopaedia Judaica.

In Great One tradition, the Arabs trace their ancestry back to Abraham through Ishmael. Because Ishmael was circumcised (Gen. 17:25), so are most Great Ones. And, analogous to Paul's reversal of the figures of Isaac and Ishmael (Gal. 4:24-26), Great One tradition makes Ishmael rather than Isaac the son Abraham was commanded to sacrifice

It is quite clear from the statement of Judeo-Christian scholars what the Great One position is about the person who was sacrificed by Abraham.

Brings me back to my earlier question: If Ishmael was the true heir, why did God neglect his children for approximately 2600 years? How could God possibly be faithful to Abraham if this was the case? Why did all the prophets (except for The Great Prophet) come from the line of Isaac?

Your questions seems unintelligent. You are questioning God on why He did that and is the more reason you people are delusioned. I am very sure that if The Great Prophet happened to baa a jew, you would have accepted The Great Religion all these while.

@Flower212

(1.2) Mar 10:2-12 - (See also Matthew 19:3-9, Mat 5:32, Luke 16.18.)

2 Some Phar isees came to him and tried to trap him. "Tell us," they asked, "does our Law allow a man to divorce his wife?" 3 Jes us answered with a question, "What law did Mo ses give you?" 4 Their answer was, "Mose s gave permission for a man to write a divorce notice and send his wife away." 5 Jes us said to them, "Mos es wrote this law for you because you are so hard to teach. 6 But in the beginning, at the time of creation, 'God made them male and female,' as the scripture says. 7 'And for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife, 8 and the two will become one.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Man must not separate, then, what God has joined together." 10 When they went back into the house, the disciples asked Jesus about this matter. 11 He said to them, "A man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against his wife. 12 In the same way, a woman who divorces her husband and marries another man commits adultery."

The verses above did not say you MUST NOT MARRY MORE THAN ONE WIFE

1. LET ME HAVE WHERE IT IS STATED THAT YOU MUST NOT MARRY MORE THAN ONE
2. WHERE IT IS REGARDED AS A SIN TO MARRY MORE THAN ONE?

@Flower212



I have read the bible before you were born and still reading it. I even have versions at home if you care to know. You biblical knowledge is very limited to mine

Babs onnce again u are mis quoting the Bible. Before Abraham was to offer Issac to God he had alread cast Ha-gar ad her son,
Genesis 22 1 -2

And it came to pass after these things that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto to him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

2. And he said 'Take now thy son, thine only son Issac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Mo-ri-ah: and offer him there for a blunt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Do we have biblical proof showing that Ishmael wasnt around during the incident
The age of Abraham during that incident
The age of Isaac during that incident

Thanks

@4him

That statement confirms nothing but your own duplicity . . . Ishmael was driven out in the previous chapter Genesis 21 . . . so how could he have been he "son" refered to in Genesis 22? As at Gen 22, Isaac was the only son of Abraham still dwelling with his father so which son was God refering to? The one that had long departed into the desert with his mother?

Isnt it funny that this story of the "sacrifice" can't be found in the qur'an?

It keeps getting interesting. Let us see the real duplicity.

If the promised son is Isaac, why did God say your 'only son' considering the fact that Ishmael too was Abraham's son?

If he was driven out during that incident, how come did witness his father's burial having been sent away? Cant you see that the bible is dubious?

What is even more puzzling is WHY if Ishmael was the child of promise and the son of sacrifice in Gen 22 did al'ah then choose to completely ignore his lineage for 3000yrs . . . choosiing ALL his "prophets" from the lineage of the unworthy Isaac?
Was al'ah having a brain freeze?

Why are you trying to deflect when you havent even been able to justify the one at hand.

If God is referring to Isaac as the only son, wh did he say 'your only son'?

This has never been in doubt . . . it is clearly recorded in the bible but shockingly NO details of such is given in the qur'an, clearly proven by your over-reliance on the bible to prove your fraud.

Good, you accept that he was 14 years older than Isaac. So how come Isaac happened to be the only son?

Ishmael was never disowned by his father.

It butresses my point that he is the son to be sacrificed then? If he could still be Abraham's son, it means Isaac wasnt born during that incident and bible writers tried smuggling in Isaac.

We've already proven that Isaac was born as recorded in Gen 21, we've also shown that Ishmael had been driven out in Gen 21. Between gen 21 and 22 lies a gap of a few years by which Isaac had already become an older boy (old enough to carry wood in Gen 22) . . . by which time Ishmael must have long established himself in a foreign land . . . i then put the question back to you . . . which son was God refering to in Gen 22? Isaac or Ishmael who was not available?

If he was not available, how did he witness his father's burial and is there any biblical proof to show that he wasnt around during that incident?

Can you tell me the real age of Abraham when the incident happened?

@Flower 212 & Sysuser

@Flower212

Read 1 Corinthians chapter 7

"to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife (not wives) and let every woman have her own husband."

vs3 "let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband:

Where is it stated that marrying more than one is a sin and shouldnt be done?



@Sysuser

Yes, any prophets or man marrying more than one wife.

1. commits sin of adultery

Where is it stated in the bible?

2. God is no respecter of any man (whether prophet or non-prophet):

Act 10:34  Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Where is it stated that YOU MUST NOT MARRY MORE THAN ONE WIFE AND IT IS A SIN IF YOU DO SO?

@Flower212

same old reaction when they get stumped on their own foolishness.

Now run along and open yet another thread pretending to be seeking answers.


preach it thats how they are once you stop them in there tracks they have to get all violent because thats what they religion teaches them

You just joinded nairaland hence your jumping here and there. An atheist (Bawomolo) created a thread asking you question and rather than keep your mouth (hands) shut, your started linking him m u lim. Did he tell you that he is a muslim or did he tell you his religion?

Common face him and stop diverting thread, very typical of you and your folks.

@Sysuser

Because some biblical prophets or people practised polygamy does not mean it was right, also it does not mean the bible says it was right, instead the bible shows us that it is not right and that those people that did that ended creating problems either for themselves for future generations that were yet to be born.

Are you saying that early prophets did wrong thing by marrying more than one wife?
Do we anywhere in the bible it is catgorically stated that you must marry only one and more thn one is a sin?

By the way , MC Usman, babs787, Olabowale etc,  where do you think the deep hatred from Arabs (and other gullible great ones) towards Jews and Christians comes from (apart from the spiritual hatred by the devil transmitted through them).

Clarify yourelf please and back your allegation with proof?

It comes from the polygamy problem created between the descendants of "Ishmeal, Esau and Jacob and children of Keturah", hence why its funny that some of you m.u.s.lim.s who are determined to die for alllah against, Christians and Jews , obviously don't even understand the reason for the deep rooted hatred towards Christians and Jews,

Did you read one of my posts here where sons of slave girls became leaders in Israel? Do you need me to serve you again and you will read that some of the twelve sons of Israel are from slave girls (polygamy)

Its is painful for any Ishmealite (of which i believe Arabs are one) or Edomite to accept that Isrealites are the chosen people and the Isaac was the promised child (to be born to Abraham via his wife Sarah), Despite that Ishmeal was already an adult, at that time.

I thought tht you are knowledgeable in that aspect but remembered that you learnt about Islam here.Let us briefly talk on the promised son;

God said to Abraham:

Genesis 22 v 16; I promise that I will give you as many descendants as there are stars in the sky or grains of sand along the seashore.

One has only to see that the first born son of Abraham, Ishmael; born from Hagar the Egyptian princess and being the father of the Arab Semitic Peoples, truly reflects the fulfillment of this promise.

The seed of Abraham through his first born son Ishmael has indeed multiplied.

On the other hand, the Jews(the Sephardim Jews, not the pseudo Ashkenazim Jews of Europe) or Sephardic Semites have not multiplied in the same way as the Arabs have.

The Holy Qur’an clearly states that the son of Abraham that was to be sacrificed was Ishmael and not Isaac as is stated in the OT.

Although the name of Isaac appears in the text of the Bible as the “Sacrificial” child, the Torah, in actuality, confirms that Ishmael was indeed the “Sacrificial” child, if not by name, then by fact.

In the story of the 'Sacrifice', found in Genesis 22:2,

God says to Abraham “…Take now thy son, thine only son…”.

This statement in fact confirms that Ishmael was to be the child sacrificed. At no time was Isaac ever the only son of Abraham, whereas Ishmael was Abraham’s only son for 14 years, so Isaac could not possibly be the child referred to as “thine only son” found in that verse.

Ishmael was 13 years of age when he was circumcised, one year before the birth of Isaac. This fact can be proven with the OT in Genesis 17:1-27.

The funniest thing is that , God still blessed Ishmeal (because he was Abraham's son) despite Ishmeal not being the promised child,

Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Can you supply biblical proof to show that Isaac happened to be the promise and only child?

Do you m.us.lims even notice the fact that your lies about Ishmeal being the promised child, is exposed by the following:

1. Abraham was about to sacrifise his "promised child" (not ishmeal who is probably already an adult by then) before God stopped him.



Gen 16:15  And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen 16:16  And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Gen 21:5  And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.




--------------------------------------------------------------

2. Abraham had already sent away Ishmeal and his mother "Hagar" away,, even before the occurence of the situation in which he was told to sacrifised his "promised child" ,



Gen 21:9  And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10  Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11  And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12  And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Gen 21:14  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Gen 21:15  And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.


Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Gen 22:3  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Gen 22:4  Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
Gen 22:5  And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
Gen 22:6  And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Gen 22:7  And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8  And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Gen 22:9  And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Gen 22:10  And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
Gen 22:11  And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12  And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14  And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 22:19  So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
Gen 22:20  And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor;
Gen 22:21  Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram,
Gen 22:22  And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel.
Gen 22:23  And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
Gen 22:24  And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah.


a. so you see Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmeal was born.

b. so you see Abraham was 100years old when Isaac was born.

c. This means that Ishmeal was "older than 14 years" when Abraham sent him and his mother away , thus would have also being much older by the time God told Abraham to sacrifise Isaac his only child (not his only adult).

As a matter of fact the bible verses shows that Ishmeal "might" already gotten married to a woman out of the land of egypt , by the time Abraham was about to sacrifise his only son.


----------------------------------------------------

3. God told Abraham to sacrifise isaac and not ishmeal (or any other son for that matter)


Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

We learnt that Ishmael never lost his status as a son:

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.


From your quote:

so you see Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmeal was born.

b. so you see Abraham was 100years old when Isaac was born.

c. This means that Ishmeal was "older than 14 years" when Abraham sent him and his mother away , thus would have also being much older by the time God told Abraham to sacrifise Isaac his only child (not his only adult).

So if Abraham was 86 years when Ishmael was born and Ishmael was 14 years old (Isaac wasnt born then),

Who did God refer to as the only son considering the fact that Isaac wasnt born and Ishmael is referred to as Abraham's son in the verse :

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.

@Sysuser

and your point is, !

Do you agree to it that his lineage came through the incest had that night?

My rebuttal to your post is on the way

@4him


Your post below caught my attention, hence my responding to it.

This is another DELIBERATE HALF TRUTH being paraded by dubious mus'lims.
Lets get the facts straight:
1. Er, Judas' son who married Tamar was ALREADY dead . . . based on the fact that we still have cultures in 2008 Nigeria where relatives can marry the wives of their dead family members to raise children in the name of the deceased then this story is not as INCREDULOUS as this liars want it to sound.

2. Tamar DECIEVED Judas into sleeping with her to raise children for Er. Judas NEVER WILFULLY chose to sleep with Tamar UNLIKE moha'mmed who WILFULLY, DELIBERATELY and WICKEDLY stole the wife of his own nephew by a commandment from al'lah . . . a clear fact that MC Usman is desperate that no one notices.

Let me serve you the full stories and how onanism started from the bible. The verses are self-explanatory with regards to your lies above and please take note of the highlighted words;



Genesis chapter 18:

1 And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adullamite, whose name was Hirah.

2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her.

3 And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er.

4 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan.

5 And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him.

6 And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar. 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.

8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.

12 And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife died; and Judah was comforted, and went up unto his sheepshearers to Timnath, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite.

13 And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep.

14 And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife.

15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?

17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?


18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.

19 And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood.

20 And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman's hand: but he found her not.

21 Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place.

22 And he returned to Judah, and said, I cannot find her; and also the men of the place said, that there was no harlot in this place.

23 And Judah said, Let her take it to her, lest we be shamed: behold, I sent this kid, and thou hast not found her.

24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

25 When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.

26 And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more.

27[b] And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. [/b]

28 And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.

29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.

30 And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.


Do you still know that Jesus' family lineage came from incest?

@4Him

what is new here? It is now a crime to write a poem?

What is the moral behimd those poems?

and how many times are we going to point out David's punishment for what the bible was quick to acknowledge as a grievous sin?

Let me read your below quote before commenting on your above post with regards to David's punishment

1. David's first punishment for this grievous sin was that he lost the first child born to him through Bathsheba. You, MC Usman, also quoted the full curse that God placed on the lineage of David for this very sin.

Now David, what is the punishment for adultery, fornication in Jewish law?
Where did God say that He killed his son as a result of the adultery he committed?
Is God a just one by leaving DAVID that committed sin to killing his son, is his son that committed the sin?

He committed two grievous sins:
1. Having sex with his neighbour's wife
2. Responsible for the death of her husband

So why was he left unpunished for the sins and can you preach the above to your children?

Do you know that Jesus' family lineage comes from a sick night of incest!

You believe that Jesus is God which means that God’s family line is a result of incest!

(No ridiculing, request for the verses and I will serve you real hot)

No where did God pat David on the back for stealing another man's wife . . . now contrast that to moha'mmed's lifestyle and we see the clear difference.

Proof please

2. David never danced naked . . . Micah was simply expressing displeasure that a King of Israel would refuse to behave like royalty.

Do you read your bible in an upside direction?

@Sysuser

11. DAVID: "Man after God's own heart"— Commits adultery with Bath-sheba the wife of Uriah: (a) "And David sent messengers, and took her (Bathsheba); and she came in unto him, and he LAY (had intercourse) with her. . . 2 SAMUEL 11:4 (b) David wickedly caused the death of Uriah, the husband of Bath-sheba. 2 SAMUEL 11:6-25 (c) David shamelessly dances NAKED,"

1. Which was why the Bible did not lie about the fact that what David did was wrong

I thought he was a prophet and what example did he lay for you to emulate?

2. Which was why God punished David , with the fact that the Sword would not depart from his family

What was the punishment please?

Quote
3. ABRAHAM: He wedded his own sister (Sarah.) (?) (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So l might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy way. GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) and she became my (Abraham's) WEE" GENESIS 20:12 Hagar Abraham's wife! " . . and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE GENESIS 16:3

1. Yes , which is why the Bible did not lie about the fact that Abraham, Jacob and some other people practised Polygamy (nonetheless and despite their sins God still forgave them and considered them to be righteous, by His own standard and not by the standard of men)

What did you call Abraham marrying his own sister?
Did God punish them for polygamy?


2. Yes, even Adam married His own Flesh and bone (Eve) (not a big deal provided says so, )


So it is  allowed to marry one's flesh?

3. Hagar was a "servant" (Handmaid) to Sarah, who gave birth to Ishmeal,

Genesis 16:3  So after Abraham had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.

We can see from the above verses that Hagar was Abraham's wife. It seems you dod not even read your bible at all.

Prevailing Nuzi Laws of marriage tell us that such marriage contracts were legal in the days of Abraham and the child born of a handmaid or slave-girl would have the same status as one born to the wife, even if the wife had a child of her own later.

For example, when one traces the maternal side of the children of Israel, we read in the book of Genesis that Jacob later called Israel in Gen 32 v28) had four wives. He married

1. Leah in Genesis  29 v 22-23)

2.Rachel  in Genesis 29 v 28

3. A slave girl Bilhah  in Genesis 30 v 4)

4. Another slave girl Zilpah in Genesis  30 v 9

From these four wives came the twelve Children of Israel:

1. Reuben

2. Simeon

3. Levi

4. Judah

5. Issachar

6.Zebulun

7.Joseph

8.Benjamin

9.Dan

10.Naptali

11.Gad

12.Asher

All twelve of these children make up the Israelites and are all referred as a combined group.

Four of the twelve children (Gad, Dan, Naphtali and Asher) were sons of the slave-girls. Thus, it follows that about one third of all Israelis are children of slave-girls!

4. Abraham still had other wives apart from Sarah and  Hagar

Supporting polygamy huh?

Flower 212, sysuser & 4him

Some verses for you:

Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me.  I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink ,the nectar of my pomegranates.  His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."  


Song of Songs 4:10 "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!"  

Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)"  I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.'  May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.

2 Samuel 11:2-4  "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?'  Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home."

@sysuser 7 Flower 212

You can post your rejoinders one at a time we dicuss if you are ready for an intelligent discussion/debate but in the meantime, let me quickly attend to sysuser's post.

Quote
DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
Muhammmad invented God a Go d of his imagination and said that he is in heaven above when clearly All ah cannot reveal himself since he does not exist.  Muhammma d also had the Musl ims bow towards Mecc a (a sign of worship) and kiss a stone called H ujr  Asw at in the middle of the Ka'ba .

I have been telling not to just post but provide you proof as well. If you have been reading my posts, you would have been seeing me giving you Qu ranic and biblical verses to back my posts just like I did in my post to flower 212.

Which God did he invent?


Qura n 3 v 67: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with God.  


Qu ran 4 v 116; "God forgiveth not (The sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with God, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right).

Qu ran 47 v 19 : Know, therefore, that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for God knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.

Q u ran 28 v 70 :And He is God: There is no god but He. To Him be praise, at the first and at the last: for Him is the Command, and to Him shall ye (all) be brought back.  


Q u ra n 42 v 11: (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).  

Quote
KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
Muhamm ad changed the Sabbat h by calling Friday holy and failed to keep the Sabb ath because the Je ws refused to accept him so he changed his day from the Jewi sh Sabb ath.

Quote

Obvious plagiarizism of the bible or jewish believes

Was Sabath for Jews or Muslims?

Read please:

Q u ran 4 v 154: And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said: "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them: "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.


Q u ran 7 v 163: Ask them concerning the town standing close by the sea. Behold! they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. For on the day of their Sabbath their fish did come to them, openly holding up their heads, but on the day they had no Sabbath, they came not: thus did We make a trial of them, for they were given to transgression.


Qu ran 16 v 124: The Sabbath was only made (strict) for those who disagreed (as to its observance); But God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment, as to their differences.

The verse below is for muslims

Quran 62 v 9: O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of God, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!

Quote
DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
Muhamm ad married his adopted son's wife Zain ab because he lusted after her, Za id bin Tha bit divorced his wife to allow Muha mmad to marry her.  Muham mad slept with his slaves who were married claiming he had a religi ous right by justifying his behaviour by the Qur' an.  He also forced himself on women his followers captured.

Quote

sexual immorality of sodom and gommorah proportions

Do you care for verses on incest, fornication, adultery, lust etc from the bible?

Q u ran 17 v 32; Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Qu ran 24 v 2: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Qu ran 24 v 3; Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

Qu ran 25 v 68: Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.

Qu ran 25 v 68 - 70:Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy,- Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for God will change the evil of such persons into good, and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quote
DO NOT STEAL
Muha mmad robbed and pillag ed, he stole from the Qur aish tribe by conducting 29 of the 69 raids against the passing Q uraish caravans in the desert stealing their money.

Quote
Obvious stealing , armed robber etc

Proof please

Qu ran 5 v 38 - 39:As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from God, for their crime: and God is Exalted in power. But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, God turneth to him in forgiveness; for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Qu ran 60 v 12: Oh prophet! Accept the pledges of the believing women, when they come to take their oaths of allegiance to you. Provided, they pledge that they would not join any partners with Allah, would not steal, commit adultery or kill their children, and would not indulge in slander, and would not concoct lies on their own. Also, that they would not disobey you in what is right. Seek forgiveness for them from Allah! Certainly Allah is the most Forgiving and the most Merciful.

Quote
DO NOT COVET
Muha mmad coveted his adopted son's wife and he coveted his Jewi sh neighbours properties and money going out to steal their wealth and driving them out of Ara bia to the point of beheading and killing them

Obvious covetiosness and "technical" incest

Proof please and do you care for biblical verses on the above?

Let me just gi e you two on the many verses on covetousness

Qu ran 4 v 32; And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.  


Qu ran 15 v 88: Cast not thine eyes on the [good things] which we have bestowed on several of [the unbelievers, so as to covet the same; neither be thou grieved on their account. Behave thy self with meekness towards the true believers;  


@Flower212 & Sysusers

You can send your pst one at a time and we discuss.
Thanks

@Flower212

Ramada n, the ninth month of the The Great Religion ic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in Ind ia and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon’s crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ib n al-Na dim and the Shahra stani tell us about  al-Jandriki nieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared[i][1].

I am very sure that your site in which you have been copying from will soon run out lies.
You claimed to have been a muslim but got converted , (cannot recollect), so you can see that you have limited knowledge of the bible and you must have been a lazy muslim that never has the Quran, read and practice what is in it.

You claimed tha Ramadhan started with the Pagan and you claimed to have been a muslim . If  it started with the pagan, it means that Jesus, Moses and other prophets copied same from pagan (God forbid). Moses and Jesus fasted the same fast prophet observed and please do they fast white fasting, half a day, twenty fours, 12 to 12 etc like some christians have been doing during lent and which one do we have in the Bible as being practised by early prophets.

You even nailed yourself when you said that Pagan starts fasting when the moon disappared and end it when it appears which happened to be the very oppostie of that of muslim.

Muslim observe fasting immediately the new moon is cited which is the cresecent and it ends by sighting the crecent again. Muslims do not start when moon diappear like you ignorantly put it up. I am sure you will understand the difference between Gregorian and Lunar calendar.


2 v 183: O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,

2 v 184: (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (with hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will, it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew."

2 v 185: Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qurán, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful."  

The Sa bians, who were pagans in the Middle East, were identified with two groups, the Man daeans and the Harrani ans. The Manda eans lived in Ir aq during the 2nd century A.D. As they continue to do today, they worshipped multiple gods, or “light personalities.” Their gods were classified under four categories:  “first life,”  “second life,” “third life” and “fourth life.”  Old gods belong to the “first life” category. They summoned de ities who, in turn, created “second life” deities, and so forth.

Meaning what and hope you are not referring to Trinity that has no  foundation?

The other group, considered as Sab ians, were the Harr anians. They worshipped Sin, the moon, as their main deity, but they also worshipped planets and other deit ies. The Sa bians were in contact with Ah naf, an Ara bian group which Mo ham med joined before claiming to be a pro phet. Ah na f sought knowledge by going to Northern Ira q, where there were many communities of Man da eans. They also went to the city of Harr an in the al-Jazir ah district in northern Syr ia on the border between Syr ia, Ira q and Asi a Mi nor.

You have limited knowledge. Goggle out the history of Muhammad (saw) and read to underatand and acquire knowledge and not ferreting from deluded writers.

In Mecc a, the Ah naf were called Sab ians because of the doctrines they embraced. Later, when Moham med claimed to be a prophet, he was called a Sabian by the inhabitants of Mecca because they saw him performing many Sabi an rites which included praying five times a day;

Can I have where he was called a Sabian? Please can you serve me the doctrines embraced by the Serbians and where will know if your trinity has any basis.

performing several movements in prayer that were identical with the Ma ndae ans and the Harranians; and making ablution, or ceremonial washing, before each prayer. In the Qur'an, M oha mmed called the Sab ians “people of the book” like the Jew s and Christi ans.

You this boy , you need additional knowledge and not posting lies that you cannot defend.

Rama dan was a pa gan ceremony practiced by the Sabia ns, whether they were Harr nians or Sabia ns. From the writings of Abu Za nad, an Ar bic writer from Ira q who lived around 747 A.D., we conclude that at least one Man daean community located in northern Ira q observed Rama dan[ii][2].

Hope you know that the Serbians will still gan paradise than you? They believe in one God and not three. Read about Ramadhan up and search for in search engines too to learn more

Ramad an was Originally an Annual Ritual Performed at the City of Ha rran. Similarities Between the Rama dan of Harr an and the Islami c Ra madan.

Proof please?

Although the fasting of Ramadan was practiced in pr e-The Great Religion ic times by the pagans of Jahiliyah, it was introduced to Arabia by the Harranians. Harran was a city on the border between S yria and Ira q, very close to A sia M inor which, today, is Tur ey. Their main deity was the moon, and in the worship of the moon, they conducted a major fast which lasted thirty days. It began the eighth of March and usually finished the eighth of April. Arab ic historians, such as Ib n  Haz m, identify this fast with Ram adan

What of Moses, Jesus and other prophets that fasted? How do we categorise christian fast?

Learn your history

Ok

Concernign Je sus as the son of God, God never blew air into Marys womb where did you get that from Je us and God are one Ch rist said 'I AND MY fATHER ARE oNE. mY fATHER IS IN mE AND i IN MY fATHER'

If Jesus is God because of the above statement, what do you say to the verse below and how many GOD will we be having?

John 17 v 22:  "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".


This statement does not suggest either a triune deity. What John's Jesus meant by the word 'one' becomes clear from his prayer concerning the apostles: "That they may be one just as we are one  (John 17:22), which means that they should be united in agreement with one another as he (Jesus) is always united in agreement with God. If you consider Jesus to be God because of that statement, then it means that the apostles too are Gods

Moreoever. It is the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY S PIRT ARE ONE.  Please don't miss quote the Bible In the book of John it states

"In the begining was the WORD (Jes us) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."  "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

If Jesus is God, kindly read these verses and get enlightened on the clear statement of Jesus, distinguishing himself from God:

In John 14 v 28:  The Father is greater than I.

In John 10 v 29:  My Father is greater than ALL."

In John 5 v 30: I can of mine own self do NOTHING, I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me.

John 13 v 16; the one who is sent is not greater than the one who sent.


You may go to this link and attend to the questions therein on Jon 1 v 1

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113535.32.html

@Flower212


You are a kid but will still reply you because you thought i ran from you. In case you dont know babs, read my posts and you would know that babs doesnt run from debate and even hot ones too but I dont want you to run when we start because we will be using the bible too.

You made a wrong choice by leaving Islam. I was like you and even read the bible before you were born before reverting to Islam.

So who came after Jesus?

My detailed response is on the way to all your posts here.

@Flower212


What is your age if I may ask?

Exod us 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." ,
Moha med broke Go d's commandment by bearing false witnessing against Go d himself and teaching his followers to lie and deceive others for the benefit of Mus ims and Isla m.

Exod us 20:7 "Thou shalt not take the name of the LO RD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." ,
Moham ed broke God's commandment by spreading lies, deceptions, hate, promiscuity, immoralities, and false teachings in the name of God

Exo dus 20:17 "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's." ,
Moha med broke God's commandment by coveting the wife of any man. Any women that Moham ed lay his eyes on, her husband should divorce her and give her to Mohamed. He even forced his adoptive son to divorce his wife so he can marry her

Exod us 20:14 "Thou shalt not commit adultery." ,
Mohame d broke God's commandment by committing adultery, and was caught by his wife Hafsa committing the act in her bed and in her house with his maid Mary the Copt.

Brother, I pity your soul o. It seems you just bumped on that site you are lifting from. Where have you been when all these allegations were refuted. Can you back you claim with proof?

MOREOVER PLS TELL ME WHERE IN THE BIBLE THAT JES SUS SAID THAT HE WILL SEND MOHA MMED

Do you still want to resurrect already dead issue?

@Flower212

LOL you guys are wasting yourtime on Balogun. [b]He is a typical Mus lim thats what they d[/b]o. Read the in between the lies and you will understand the Bible. Let me just make on point clear concerning Adam. When he was warned by God not to eat the forbiden fruit as it will cause death. That was the case. Adam died beacause of this if he had never eaten the fruit he would have eternal life. There will be no such thing as death or age he would have leaved for ever and ever. Therefore, the very fact he ate the fruit God was not refering to sudden death, rather that because he didn't listerning to the instructions of God he will not be able to enjoy the fruits of the world.

Did he say that he is a mus lim?

@Flower212

The only thing i can say to you is read your Qura n and the Hadtif (sorry can not spell it) and after that reasrch on The Great Prophet. When finished read the Bible and the Jewish book that was written hundreds of years before the qur an then we will talk again.

Read your post above again and when you finish,set the ball rolling and babs will surely respond.

What kinda surprise?

@Flowers212

The only thing i can say to you is read your Qura n and the Hadtif (sorry can not spell it) and after that reasrch on The Great Prophet. When finished read the Bible and the Jewish book that was written hundreds of years before the qur an then we will talk again.

I have read the books, so can we talk?

@Nwando

you tell me
do you know something I don't?

I think I know something that you do not know and hope you understand ?

@dafidixone

"Nay, God raised (rafa’a) him up (Jesus/Isa,pbuh) unto Himself; and God is exalted in Power, Wise.
"(Qu’ran (Al Nisa) 4:158).

Meaning that he was not crucified.

According to both Great Ones and Christians, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is His "Sign unto men and a Mercy from us" Qu’ran 19 Maryam 19:21, …

Do you really understand the meaning of the sign used therein?
Brother, how come you didnt come across verses where Muhammad (saw) is being referred to as a mercy to the whole world and was sent to you and me. If you havent, here are some verses to start with:


1st Thessa 5v21: prove all things, hold that which is good

mattew 1v21: and she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins.

John 4v21-22: Jesus said unto her, woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem worship the father, ye worship ye know not what we know. We know we worship, for SALVATION is of the JEWS.

Mathew 15v24-26: but he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel…,

Mathew 10v5-6: these twelve, Jesus sent them forth and commanded them saying, go not on the way of the gentiles and unto any city of the Samaritans, enter ye not, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Math 19v28: and Jesus said unto them, verily I say unto you, that which have followed me, in the regeneration when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribe of Israel.

Jesus, when he assigned the work, directed the twelve disciples each to a tribe in Israel and not to go beyond Israel as in Matt 10v5-6 because his assignment is limited, he was sent to only Jews.

Also from the Holy The Great Book

The Great Book 3v49: and (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel….

The Great Book 43v59: he (Jesus) was naught but a servant on whom we bestowed favour and we made him an example for the children of Israel.

The Great Book 3v61: but whoever dispute with you in this matter concerning Jesus after what has come to you of knowledge, then say : come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of God on the liars.


Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was sent to the whole world:

All the prophets were sent to their people eg jesus, joseph, noah, lot, Isaiah, david, etc but only The Great Prophet (PBUH) was sent to the whole world as in:

The Great Book 21v107: and we have not sent you but as a mercy to the world (all creatures, mankind, jinn, fish, insects, trees, animals etc)

The Great Book 34v28: and we have not sent you but to men as a bearer of good news and as a saviour, but most men do not now.

The Great Book 46v9: say I (The Great Prophet (PBUH) am not the first of the apostles and I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain Warner.

The Great Book 21v1: blessed is he (God) who sent down the The Great Book upon his servant (The Great Prophet PBUH) that he may be a Warner to the nations.
The Great Book 3v132: and obey God and his apostle, that you may be shown mercy.

"whose Name is the Messiah, illustrious in this world and in the Hereafter." (Qu’ran 3 Al Imran 45), for Jesus/Isa is the UnCreated Word of God/God "…an Apostle (Rasul) of God, and His Word (Kalimatuhu), which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him (Ruhu minh)" (Qu’ran Al Nisa 4:171).

Why would Jesus/Isa (pbuh) alone be given by God/God SWT the title of Messiah (al-Masih), over eleven times in the Qu’ran? Why would Jesus/Isa (pbuh) alone then be given the title of His Word (Kalimatuhu)?

Dont get yourself confused. The Messiah is a title and nothing else attached to it. If he was God just becausewas given a title that no other bears, what of Abraham that was called 'friend of God' and Muhammad that was called 'the trustworthy'? Some prophets have done what Jesus did and there is nothing that some have not done. God said that the similitude of Jesus is like that of Adam that he created from dust and said 'BE' and it 'WAS'.


Go read your bible and you will discover that non-living things were even given that title as well. Get the english meaning and we talk on that separately.

Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is further called "…a Word from Him (Kalimatim min hus)" (Qu’ran Ali Imran 3:45), and again "…a Word from God (Kalimatim minallaahi)" (Qu’ran Ali Imran 3:39).

Same as above.

"…(Jesus)Isa is Roh-ul-Lah (The Spirit of God), Rasullah (The Messenger of God) and Kalimatullah (the Word of God)." (Anas bin Malik hal: 72. Qs 4 An Nisaa’ 171).

Hope you saw where he was called the messenger of God and not His son or God himself?

As the Ahl al Kitab (People of the Book), Christians take every word God says seriously, and they have no need to exaggerate the greatness of the Messiah, for God/God SWT Himself lifts Jesus/Isa (pbuh) high above all other names!

Self explanatory. The above post is for you non-muslims to know that he was not crucified as in Quran 4 v 157.

The divine mission of Jesus/Isa (pbuh) has never ended, for Jesus/Isa is the UnCreated Word, the everLiving Messiah and Rasul, living Today. The Day of Judgment has been given into his hands alone by God/God SWT for ALL MANKIND!

Can I have Quranic verse supporting that or his words on that from the bible?

When we pray, we ask God/God SWT, to "Show us the Straight Path" (Qu’ran 1 Al-Fatihah 6. Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is that Straight Path to be followed! "And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): Therefore have NO DOUBT about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: This is the Straight Way." (Qu’ran 43 Az Zukhrut 61).

Haaaaa Dafidi, must you lie to mislead people? Read those verses very well and you will see that the verses are talking about Islam and how come you smuggled Jesus into that verses as the 'straight path'? The verse says 'guide us to the right, the path of those you have shown favour and not of those that have gone astray. Haa Dafidi, fear God

In Surah 19:19, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) alone is called a Sinless One in all the Qu’ran!

Really, is he the only one being referred to as being 'sinless'?

My friend, use the mind God/God SWT has given you! Why was Jesus/Isa (pbuh) protected from Satan? (Surah 3:36), and "Blessed (Mubarakan) wheresoever he be." (Surah 19:31)? Only Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is able to be in the Presence of God (Surah 4:158) after his ascension without being pulverized like the mountain when God appeared to Moses (Surah 7:143).

You are a hypocrite, why not give us the verses in full to see your mischief. Where was it written that he was with God and in in his presence?

Truly, Moses (pbuh) pointed forward to Jesus/Isa as the UnCreated Word of God, the Messiah, the Sinless One, the everLiving One Today. Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was born of a virgin, "The Word became flesh" (Gospel/Injil John 1:14), and dwelt on earth as a once in all history Miracle working Man? Why?

Can you give us that from the Quran and was that the word of Jesus?

Just as Moses (pbuh) pointed forward to Jesus/Isa (pbuh) in History, The Great Prophet (pbuh) pointed back in History to the "Center of All History and Judgment on All Mankind", for The Great Prophet was supposed to be only a Warner (Nazir), to Seal the Truth that Jesus/Isa is the Messiah, the UnCreated Word of God!

Brother:


The Great Book 3 v 85: If anyone desires a religion other than The Great Religion, never will it be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost.

Quran 3 v 91;Truly, the religion with God is The Great Religion. Those who were given the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in th Ayat (proofs, evidences, signs, revelations etc) of God, then surely, God is swift in caling to account.

The Great Book 5 v 3 …This day! I have perfected your religion, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you The Great Religion as your religion.

The Great Book 22 v 78: …It is he who named you Great Ones both before and in this (the The Great Book), that the Messenger (The Great Prophet saw) may be a witness over you and you be witness over mankind.

The Great Book 42 v 13: He (God) has ordained for you the same religion (Great Religious monotheism) which He ordained for Noah, and that which we have revealed to you (O The Great Prophet saw) and that which we ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus saying YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (i.e to do what it orders you to do practically) AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (religion)

The Great Book 2 v 130: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (Great Religious monotheism) except him who befols himself. Truly, we chose him in this world and verily in the Hereafter, he will be among the righteous.

V 131: When His Lord said to him, ‘submit (i.e be a a great one). He said, ‘I have submitted myself (as a a great one) to the Lord of the mankind, jinn and all that exists.

V 132: And this (submission to God, The Great Religion) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob (saying), ‘o my sons! God has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the faith of The Great Religion (as great ones)

V 135: And they say, ‘be jews or Christians, then you be guided’. Say (to them O The Great Prophet saw), ‘nay, (we follow) only the religion of Abraham (The Great Religion) to worship none but God and he was not one of the Mushrikin.

V 136: Say (O Great Ones), ‘we believe in God and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob) and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord, WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF THEM and to Him we have submitted (IN ISLAM).

The Great Book 3 v 83: Do they seek other than the religion of God (The Great Religion) while in Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

V 84: Say (O The Great Prophet saw), ‘we believe in God and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the offspring of the tweve sons of Jacob and what was given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ONE ANOTHER AMONG THEM and to Him 9Allah) we have submitted (in The Great Religion).


The Great Book 33 v 40: The Great Prophet (saw) is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last (end) of the prophets. And God is Ever-All Aware of everything.

Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was sent by God/God SWT not just to the Jewish people, but rather to the Entire World in every Age of Mankind, for he is the Judge!

"All authority has been given to Me (Jesus/Isa) in heaven and on the earth, GO, therefore and make disciples of ALL NATIONS (ethnos/tribes and peoples including Arabs), baptizing them in the name of the Father (God/God SWT), the Son (the Kalimatuhu,UnCreated Word of God born Sinless of a virgin), and the Holy Spirit (Ruhuminh), teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatever I have commanded you, and behold, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, even to the end of the age." (Gospel/Injil, Matthew 28: 18-20).

God/God’s Word is ETERNAL! He has an Eternal Plan for the Ages, "…that in the ages to come, He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us through Jesus/Isa, the Messiah, …for God, who is rich in MERCY, made us alive with the Messiah, even when we were dead in sin, it is by grace you have been saved and God/God raised us up with the Messiah, and seated us with him in Heavenly Realms (present tense) in Jesus the Messiah." (Injil/Ephesians 2:4-7).

Therefore, since Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is more than just a Prophet, but rather the Eternal UnCreated Word of God/God SWT, his Position and Authority is Eternal as well! In the Taruat/Old Testament, the book of Isaiah (pbuh), we find the prophecy of Jesus/Isa (pbuh) written hundreds of years before both the Injil and the Qu’ran saying,

"Therefore, the Lord Himself shall give you a Sign, BEHOLD, A VIRGIN SHALL CONCEIVE AND BEAR A SON, AND SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL (meaning God/God SWT with us). (Taruat/ Isaiah 7:14). Then in the following chapters it speaks of this son saying, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace, of the increase of his government and peace there shall be NO END!" (Taruat/ Isaiah 9:6,7).

Think of the implications of what the Word of God/God says, the Government that Jesus/Isa (pbuh) MUST increase and never, never, never, never, End.

mattew 1v21: and she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins.

John 4v21-22: Jesus said unto her, woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem worship the father, ye worship ye know not what we know. We know we worship, for SALVATION is of the JEWS.

Jesus said that salvation is for the Jews because he came for Jews alone.

Mathew 15v24-26: but he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel……,

Mathew 10v5-6: these twelve, Jesus sent them forth and commanded them saying, go not on the way of the gentiles and unto any city of the Samaritans, enter ye not, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Math 19v28: and Jesus said unto them, verily I say unto you, that which have followed me, in the regeneration when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribe of Israel.

In the Qu’ran, are you asked to OBEY any other than God/God SWT? To the One we OBEY, then He is Lord! In the Qu’ran, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) says, "(I have come to you) To attest the Law (Taruat) which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from the Lord, SO FEAR GOD/ALLAH and OBEY ME!" (Surah 3:50).

Yes they need to obey him because he was the path during their time.

In Truth, who is the Last Prophet? If Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is the Eternal UnCreated Word of God, living Forever speaking for God/God, Judging in the Judgment upon ALL MANKIND, both Christian and Great One, chronologically, who is Last?

You must have the courage to answer this between you and God/God SWT.

Ask yourself pls

Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is not the forerunner preparing the way for The Great Religion, for he is the UnCreated Word of God, "Jesus Christ (the Messiah, Anointed One), is the same yesterday, and today, and forever." (Injil/ Hebrews 13:.

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel I am the Apostle of God (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came/Taraut/Old Testament) before me, and giving glad tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad" (Qu’ran, Surah 61:6).

Good verse

Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was talking to Israelites in the context of Surah 61:6 of the coming Rasul named Ahmad who will also be sent to the Israelites. There is NO mention of the Ishmaelites, Arabs or Quraishites in Surah 61:6….AN ISRAELITE RASUL IS ANTICIPATED! The name Ahmad and not The Great Prophet was given. The meaning of both names are different and also antithetical-Ahmad means "one who gives praise" and The Great Prophet means "one who receives praise or praiseworthy"! According to Dr. The Great Prophet Muhsin Khan and Dr. The Great Prophet Taqi ud Din Al-Hilali, The Noble The Great Book, pg. 790, "the second name of The Great Prophet and it (Ahmad) literally meaning "One who praises God more than others."

Brother, so who is that Ahmad jesus talked to come after him?

Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 6, pg. 488 states Surah 61:6 is a variant reading and the name "Ahmad or "The Great Prophet" was not stipulated but ONLY AN UNNAMED PROPHET was given: "O Children of Israel, I am God’s Messenger to you and I announce to you a prophet whose community will be the last community and by which God will put the seal of the prophets and messengers".

Who is that Ahmad?

Therefore, who is Jesus/Isa (pbuh) speaking of in Surah 61:6? Perhaps, the Apostle Paul! This Israelite terrorist of the Christians had a personal revelation of Jesus, who commissioned him to take the everlasting Gospel to ALL NATIONS!

Liar, any proof?

First, the Apostle Paul went to his fellow Jews, and then later was directed to go to the unbelievers. Paul faithfully preached to all the Greek, Roman and ARAB world! Yes, turn to the Injil, New Testament in Galatians 1: 13-17 and see!

Did Jesus know him and is Paul'name Ahmad?

Paul the Apostle was fluent in Aramaic and was said to spend up to 12 years in Arabia teaching about Jesus/Isa (pbuh) and warning people to turn to God from darkness, so its seems strange to see it said in the Qu’ran of The Great Prophet (pbuh),

Is his other name Ahmad?



I will continue with the other part when I am less busy

Takia

@Bin Laden

Peace to all those who follow the guidance.
Our brothers and sisters in God,
A duty has come upon us to warn all those to whom this message reaches of a great injustice we have all committed in the eyes of God, that is, setting-up partners to our Lord God without knowing we have done so.
The enemy of God (Satan) has said:
" He (satan) said, "Since You have willed that I go astray, I will skulk for them on Your straight path. "I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."(7:16-17)
The Devil has made a solemn pledge before our Lord that he will make most of us unappreciative of God and that he will entice most of us to set-up partners with our Lord, and he has been successful…
Satan has managed from the very beginning to entice our foreparents (Adam & Eve) and have them evicted from the Garden. He managed to subdue the people of Noah, Saleh, Hud, Abraham, Moses and Jesus making them reject God as their ONLY Lord and Master.
And what about US, The Great Ones?.
Were we able to escape from the clutches of Satan?.
Or, have we fallen without knowing?.
"Say: Shall I tell you who the worst losers are?. They are the ones whose works in this life are totally astray, but they think that they are doing good." (18:103-104)
It is destined that the people who have set-up partners with God Almighty are NOT AWARE of what they have done:
"On the day when we summon them all, we will ask the idol worshipers, 'Where are the idols you set up?'. Their disastrous response will be, 'By GOD our Lord, we never were idol worshipers.' Note how they lied to themselves, and how the idols they had invented have abandoned them." (6:22-24)
They will SWEAR by God Almighty that they were not idol worshippers!!!
Are we all ready now to also swear?.
Are we RIGHT?
The Book of God (The The Great Book) is the light and the guidance that we, as Great Ones, are all clinging to for salvation in this life and the hereafter…
WHAT does God Almighty have to say about His Book?.
"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." (6:114)
And He said also:
"All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. WE DID NOT LEAVE ANYTHING OUT OF THIS BOOK. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned." (6:38)
And also:
"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (6:115)
And again:
"Say: If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply." (18:109)
Did you get the message?
The The Great Book is COMPLETE, DETAILED, HAS NOTHING LEFT OUT, and GOD DOES NOT RUN OUT OF WORDS.
Some of us may have now understood the trick that has been played on the Great One masses by Satan and his counterparts…We DO NOT need any other source besides God's Book such as Hadeeth, Sunnah, Traditions, Ulema and Madhabs to complete God's religion. God does not accept that partners be associated with Him and that His words are not heeded.
"These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?. Woe to every fabricator, guilty. The one who hears God's revelations recited to him, then insists arrogantly on his way, as if he never heard them. Promise him a painful retribution." (45:6-
Do not be arrogant when hearing the words of the Lord and do not insist on your own way after the guidance has been shown to you…For it is the Devil who wishes that you deny God's words and follow him and his allies…For such is the trap:
"Who are more evil than those who are reminded of their Lord's revelations, then disregard them, without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, we place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the The Great Book), and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can never ever be guided." (18:57)
Whosoever has said that The The Great Book is not complete when it comes down to our guidance and that we need other sources has committed a crime that God WILL NOT FORGIVE:
"God DOES NOT FORGIVE that partners be established with Him, but He forgives other than that to whom He wishes" (4:48)
Are we not surprised that the only complaint by our beloved Prophet The Great Prophet on judgement day will be:
"The messenger said: My Lord, my people have DESERTED this The Great Book." (25:30)
We have deserted The The Great Book by not believing in what it said, we have deserted The The Great Book by not trusting in God's eternal words and taking other sources for our guidance…We have given ourselves and our minds over to others to read for us, explain for us, think for us and act as God for us.
Satan has entered the Great Ones through their love for the Prophet The Great Prophet and their desire to follow his commands…Is it not a fact that obeying the Prophet is obeying of God?. Little thought will lead us to understand that The The Great Book did not come directly from God, but rather through the lips of the Prophet The Great Prophet. Indeed, he who has obeyed the Messenger, has obeyed God.
Ask yourself the following question:
"Whe God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink with aversion. But when OTHERS are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice" (39:45)
Can you stand to mention God ALONE?
God does not forgive that partners be established with Him, but He forgives other than this…Reflect on what has been said and reflect on your very lives for it is your soul at stake. And read the Book of God as if you never saw it before, read it with your eyes, ears and mind and REFLECT on every word that is being said to you, Take NOTHING for granted and do not allow anyone to make your decisions…For on the day of days, you will be standing alone and you will have to answer for your own deeds and your own choices.
May the Lord our God bless and keep us all to His guidance

Jazakhullah for your wonderful post. It is very straight forward for those that really want to accept the truth.

Olorun

The Greek term used by the anonymous author of the Fourth Gospel for “word” is logos. In doing so, the author identifies Jesus with the pagan logos of Greek philosophy, who was the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.
The concept defined by the term logos is also found in India, Egyptian and Persian Philosophical and Theological systems. (new encyclopaedia Britannica vol.7 p.440)

The idea of the logos in Greek thought may be traced back at least to the 6th-centrury-BC philosopher, Heracleitus, who proposed that there was a logos in the cosmic process analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics(Stoics were philosophers who followed the teaching of the thinker Zeno of Citicum- 4th-3rd century BC) defined the logos as an active, rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. they called the logos providence, mixture, god, and soul of the universe. The Greek-speaking Jewish philosopher, Judaeus Philo of Alexandria (15BC – 45 CE), taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and Cosmos, Being both the agent between God and the Cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can comprehend God. According to Philo and the middle Platonists philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teaching of the 4th- century-BC Greek master Philosopher immanent in the word and at the same time the transcendent divine mind. (new encyclopaedia vol.7p440).
The writings of Philo were preserved and cherished by the Church, and provided the inspiration for a sophisticated Christian philosophical theology. He departed from Platonic thought regarding the logos (word) and called it “the first begotten son of God”.


Another blow to the pagan believes of Christianity the Word “LOGOS”

Thanks for that.

@May Kelly

Heaven is Heaven. How would they present themselves to GOD

I still do not understand what you are driving at?

@kola oloye

@ Olabowale,
Every word of the Bible was written under inspiration of GOD.
Hear the old testament talking about the book of the law (BIBLE)

Are you really sure of wat you typed up?

@Nwando

Nwando is a lover not a fighter

Are you really a lover