₦airaland Forum

@May Kelly

Let me take you back to your last post towards my rejoinder.

Oh! babs787, you like contradicting issues. We are to base our discussion on JOHN CHAPTER ONE, now your asking whether it is TO THEON or HO THEON; what kind of man are you. Do not confused your self the more. I am trying to bring you out of many contradicting words in your head and your making things worst.

I am doing you favour babs787, you don't know CHRIST; what a shame! Please Read John chapter one and let me start from there teaching you about CHRIST.

Do you think you can teach me Jesus/ Far from that, you can never but I am the best position to do that having tasted your religion before moving to Islam.

You and I agreed to discuss John 1 v 1 in which you said that Jesus is God just because your translators says' in the beginning was the world and the word was with God and the word is God' and I asked you to tell me the greek word for God in that verse. The reason for asking you that question is that the verse did not in anyway refer to deity of Jesus but differentiating God from Jesus and since you are hell bent on Jesus being God, I asked you to furnish me the meaning of the word 'God' because the word 'God' used in the above verse was used for Moses in the boom of Exodus and also in the book of Psalm.

So if your Jesus is God because of the fraudulent verse, the verse says 'the word was with God', so can a thing beside another one be the same?

If truly Jesus is God, kindly furnish me the greek word for God in that verse and we get to the root o JOHN 1 V 1.

Forget what Jehovah Witness said, but what do you say?

You dont have to tell me to forget what Jehovah witness says. They are christian like you and they claim that they copied their bible from the ancient manuscript and we found out that most of what they kick against happened to be the truth because your bible exposed some of the facts and that is the more reason I love reading their awake magazine and sometimes watchtower special editions like those on christmas, trinity, etc.

GOD HAS MANY NAMES

JEHOVAH, I AM THAT IAM, CREATOR, CHINEKE, ALLAH, ABASI, OLUWA, and many more. The fact is that you can call Him by title: LORD, Creator, Maker etc

That is not what we are here to discuss. We are here to discuss Jon 1 v 1 or trinity and I ave given you questions to start with so playing ignorance here would not help you my dear

Babs787 stop all these Prank; you're a cunning fox, go straight to what we are to discuss i mean "JOHN CHAPTER ONE" Lets talk about JESUS.

Yeah, we are to discuss Jesus being your God and I asked you some questions in my last post which you pretended not to see with regards to 'God' used in John 1 v 1 and when we are through with that, we shall go to facts from early christians showing tht trinity never existed during their time nor the time of Jesus christ.

My BIBLE recorded lesser gods as idols, baal, and what have you but DID NOT record CHRIST JESUS AS ONE OF THEM.

No, your bible, protestant, catholic bible recorded Jesus as servant of God and some writers who never witnessed Jesus but copied from pagans claimed that he is son of God but none claimed that he is God and it is only jehovah witness that says he is a lesser god.

CHRIST WAS RECORDED AS;

AMEN.
THE BEGINING AND THE CREATION OF GOD.
APOSTLE.
CHIEF AGENT OF LIFE.
CHRIST/MESSIAH.
ETERNAL FATHER.
FAITHFULL WITNESS.
FINE SHEPHERD.
HEAD OF THE CONGREGATION.
HIGH PRIEST.
IMMANUEL.
JUDGE.
KING.
LAMB OF GOD.
LAST ADAM.
LEADER.
LORD.
MEDIATOR.
MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL.
MIGHTY GOD.
PRINCE OF PEACE.
SAVIOUR.
SON OF GOD.
SON OF MAN.
TEACHER.
THE WORD.
WONDERFUL COUNSELLOR.

Above quotes in the bible witheld.

Can you serve the verse for each attribute and we dig deep and I thought I have explained Isaiah 9 v 6, so let me have the other verses and we explained.

The earlier the better for your soul and Babs787 GOD IS NOT COMPARABLE

Did you see me comparing God but you have been guilty of your quote above. You have been comparing Jesus with God despite the fact that you have read verses where Jesus said that God sent him and God is greater than him but you still go on with your blasphemous statement that Jesus is God. May God have mercy on you and open your eyes before its too late.
Babygirl, I am very sure you must still be in your twenties nad I think this is the best time for you to find out about this religion I have been telling you. Do away with pride, arrogance and what have you and open your eyes, read your bible especially the verses I have been serving you and you would see that all you have been preaching is nothing but destruction. Jesus is not God, didnt die let alone dying for your sin, wasnt crucified, not savior of mankind etc and I am wiling to discuss the above mentioned with you provng it to you with verses from my book and yours too.

Remain Blessed!

You too but remember that you would gain nothing if you die as a christian because Jesus was not a christian and never understand such but was started by pagans years after his demise.

Waow . I have missed a lot and I dont even know where to start or the post to reply but let me lay back and be reading from people before coming in.

The Six rights of a Muslim,


The noble prophet Muhammad (SAW) said:

"No one of you shall become a true believer until he desires for his brother what he desires for himself." [Sahih al-Bukhari]

Surely the best way for us to please our brother is to place him high in our estimation and do for him what we would like for ourselves. The Prophet gave us comprehensive direction on how to sustain brotherhood. He said: "There are six rights of a Muslim upon a Muslim:, "

", When you meet him, greet him;, " With a warm smile, a friendly face and As-Salaam Alaykum is the best way to meet a brother. We must avoid picking and choosing whom we confer this basic right upon. All Muslims regardless of their social status and position in society should be afforded this "gateway" into our personal space. The Salaam is the best of icebreakers as it immediately brings down the barriers that we unconsciously erect around ourselves to shield us from "alien invasion".

, When he invites you, respond to him;, " When a Muslim invites you to a celebration, you are obliged to go, even if he didn't attend the Eid celebration you had last year. Accepting an invitation for a wedding celebration or the naming of a child is about sharing in the joys of a brother as well as joining with other Muslims in a social gathering.

", When he seeks counsel, give him advice;, " When a brother comes to you with a problem, seeking advice, give him what he requires even if it means that you are undermining yourself in the process. Remember, you desire the best for him, don't you? Be sincere in your advice. Never take what has been told to you in confidence to another person except to demonstrate a point; even then, his identity must not be disclosed or alluded to.

", When he sneezes and praises Allah, say to him: 'May Allah have mercy on you (Yarhamuk-Allah)', " . When a Muslim sneezes, yawns, lets one go, or even when he trips and he remembers to praise Allah, we must respond to him with a prayer for Allah to have mercy on him. If we find a brother either negligent or ignorant of the need to praise Allah in all things, then we must set him right as far as his responsibility to himself and to others. The lesson is: praise Allah in all condition and appreciate the one who does this!

", When he is sick, visit him, " When you go and visit a sick, take a small gift along with you that will help lift his spirits. If you are unable to afford a gift, then ensure that you go armed with words of encouragement and hope from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Don't be put off by the fact that the brother is much more learned than you – you are there to lift his spirits, not to compete against him. Pray for him and let him pray for you too.

", And when he dies, follow his funeral, " Attending the last rites of a brother is of utmost importance. Speaking well of him and seeking forgiveness for him will ease his condition in the grave with regards to questioning, bliss and punishment. Upon following him to the grave, one should now not turn his back on (abandon) him. Not abandoning him after his death is to take care of his families, remembering him in du’a regularly, and doing sadaqah (charity) on his behalf.

@May Kelly

Bab787, don't be confused with the fake doctrine planted in you. Lets us tackle this one after the other; babs87 why do you like long talk without proof? you asked me a question and I explained to you and also told you to read John chapter one and come up with your fininding simple.
All this noise making of yours will never allow you to see the truth and to come out from the boundage rel.i.gion your into already.

Now i see the reason why sysuser was fad up with you because you always like beating about the bush. man lets us get it right that JSEUS is the son of GOD, one after the other.

So what are am saying, read my last post and come up with your findings only on that chapter; when we finish it you can ask another one. I doing things orderly because JESUS IS A MAN OF ORDERLNESS

Since you said that you wanted us to start with John 1 v 1: here I go with some questions on it:


What is the greek word for God in that verse?

I am not surprised that Jehovah Witness are not in agreement with you in that area. They used 'a god' and they have been saying that Jesus is a lesser god, 'TON THEON'

Please I will need your explanation on the meaning of TON THEON
HO THEOS


We will then compare

Exodus 7 v 1 where God made Moses god to Pharaoh

Psalm 82 v 6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High

and see if it has the same meaning as God used in John 1 v1; whether it is TO THEON or HO THEON and if it has any relationship with that of John 1 v 1.

Thanks

@May Kelly

Ok. That's fine. Now what do you want us to talk about lets tackle it one by one. I don't really get your own questions from these verses you mention. You can tell me what exactly you want us to discuss about, but make it a very short sentence - am waiting; or choose from below:

Is is that Jesus is the son of God
OR that Jesus is the Messiah of the Whole world
OR Jesus is GOD
OR what?

I will appreciate it if we can discuss Jesus being the saviour of the whole world. There is already a thread on trinity, so there wouldnt be any need diverting thread. So I looking forward to receiving verses where Jesus happens to be saviour of the whole world?

In addition, Witness (sysuser) can be your friend in accomplishing your goal in spreading what you would never be able to defend as we proceed. So set the ball rolling on the topic 'Was Jesus sent to the whole world and as we proceed, you should be prepared for some questions on that. You know that I didnt want to go into all these but you made me to and you should be up to the task and no running away

@Cgift

Do you care to know that the bible[b] is a book of prophecy and that very many of its prophecy have been fulfilled.[/b] The old testaments talks about the coming, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. This was fulfilled in the new Testament no doubt.

Good, set the ball rolling and I will surely come in and you should be prepared to answer some unfulfilled prophecies put in Jesus' mouth.

Please let us start with the prophecy of his coming, crucifixion and resurrection


Thanks

@Oaadegbu


Hope you are cool? I notice that you keep avoiding my post and questions asked therein, particularly the verses differentiasting God from Jesus but never mind, I will still attend to your last post and I know that you have known the truth but trying to save your face .

Truth found specifically in the revelation of God in history written in the bible tells us that in the beginning of time God(Elohim, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit) created heaven(space) and earth(matter) in six literal days and rested on the seventh.

Did you read my question at all? Your response above did not in any way answer my question.

Where did you see Father, Son and Holy Spirit creating heaven and earth together? Please I will be very grateful if you would show me the verse from your bible. God, Jesus nor the holy spirit did not say that God and holy spirit or what have you created heaven and earth together. Go to your book of Genesis, you would understand that Holy Spirit never created but served as God's active force. When God creates something, he did not need to go there but say 'be' and it would be.

We will still come to the issue of God resting on the seventh day

Elohim said let us(the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) make man (spirit, soul and body) in our(Father, Son and Holy Spirit) image and after our(Father, Son and Holy Spirit) likeness. Genesis 1:1-27

What is the image of God and what is the likeness.
Genesis 1:26-27:
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Is there any human being like God? Adam, the first creation of Mankind and the one in Genesis 1:26-27 certainly isn't.

The likeness of God is not the physical appearance, but rather having the knowledge of Good and evil. This is clearly stated in the Bible:

"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:5)"

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)"

"On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them. (Zechariah 12:"

Jesus couldnt have been God because he was tempted and God cannot be tempted:

James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Man was to have dominion over the earth and be God's representative on earth answerable to God but man sold his birthright to the satan by choosing to be independent of God by disobeying His commandment. Gen. 2:16-17; 3:6-7;

Meaning? Still has nothing to do with trinity.

Therefore, sin came into the world and along with it came curses, suffering, diseases and death, the earth has been groaning ever since. Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent and the serpent had no leg to stand on Gen.3:9-19

I know that from your bible and it even the bible that puts the blame on Eve alone and cursed them for their sin but in my book, Adam learnt of his mistake and asked for forgiveness and God pardoned him unlike bible where they are still experinecing the curse placed on them despite the fact that Jesus came to die for the sin (so they day). The verse above has no relationship with trinity.

God prophesied that He would come in the Person of His Son as the seed of the woman to bruise the head of the serpent and this came to pass when the Holy Spirit overshadowed the virgin Mary and the Holy thing that was conceived became the only begotten of the Father, called the Son of God. Gen.3:15; Luke 1:35 John 1:1-3,14; Hebrews 1:6-8,14

Can you please show me the verse where God said that he would come in the form of a man and how can God be a man when Hebrew bible said that God cannot be man:

"God IS not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers 23:19

"And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he IS not a man, that he should have regret." 1 Samuel 15:29

"I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath." Hosea 11:9

I even read read in the bible that he that is born of a woman cannot be clean":

Job 25:4-6
4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

But funny enough, Jesus was born from a woman and he was called the 'son of man'


Psalm 80:17
Let your hand rest on the man at your right hand, the son of man you have raised up for yourself.


Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."


Mark 14:21
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.

God is a God of justice and is a righteous God. His Word says "the soul that sinneth shall die" He has also said that "the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it you upon the alter to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul." Leviticus 17:11

Brother, you gave me OT verse where trinity was never preached to support NT that came after it. The above verse did not in any way refer to Jesus as you may be thinking and if you care, we may shed more light on it and see who the verse referred to.

Since we all came from Adam and Eve, we have all inherited sin and hence suffering, disease and death, just as a child who inherited the HIV virus from its parents.

Where did Jesus say that and if you care to know, nobody inherited any sin and Jesus even made it plain that he didnt come for sacrifice but to preach to the lost soul and in one verse he told a man to keep the commandment if he must have eternal life and if there is anything called blood atonement, he would have told him different thing and if christians have inherited any sin, was Jesus a christian and why did he not come directly after Adam but thousands of years after prophets came and gone?

When the last Adam, Jesus Christ, The only begotten Son of God whom John the baptist testified that He was the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world came to fulfil Isaiah 53:1-12;Psalm 22:1,14-18

He didnt take anybody's sin away because he was not CRUCIFIED.

He was the sacrifice that was killed for the atonement of our souls.

Where did you see that brother, he didnt die for anybody sin. The soul that sinneth would die and no soul would be accountable for another's.

He died and rose the third day as He had said before His death when He said "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up"

Where did you read that from? When was he crucified? Where was he crucified, outside Jerusalem or in Jerusalem? Did he fulfil the three days and three nights prophecy? Dint you read verses showing that he was never killed and that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much and when he prayed to God, God sent an angel to him to strenghten him, what do you think he strengthened him for? I t cou;dnt have been death (dont worry Jesus, it would be a slow, the death would be faster etc, God forbid)

He also told those who were looking for a sign that He would give them the sign of Jonah who spent three days and three nights in the belly of a fish.

Good. Did he fulfil the sign of Jonah and in what way was he like Jonah? If you really ponder on the sign of Jonah as given by Jesus, you would know that Jesus never DIED while going throug the ordeal.

By the death of Christ on the cross He satisfied God's justice of sin that should be punished by death and so if we believe on the blood of Jesus Christ that was shed and that has now been taken to heaven on the right hand side of the Father our sins would be forgiven and we would have passed from death to life.

No blood was shed because he was not killed nor crucified for your sins. How could he be God when he would sit at the right hand of God?

If you can tell me where specifically in the whole bible the word "Grandfather" is then I would oblige you.

Brother, why did Jesus not metion trinity that is having great importance attached to it and forming the bedrock of christianity and while did the four authors omit it?

@May Kelly

Babs787, one thing with you is that you like beating about the bush. You did the same thing with sysuser, you could not answer his questions; or do you have reading problems due to is english language rather than aramic they use to draw for you on slat when you were small?  could that be the problem my brother?

I don't really blame you supporting sysuser after he bashed your faith (catholic) because you are bird of a feather amd do you mind giving me the questions he asked if you would be honest to yourself?

I do not have reading problem but you are having comprehension problem because you are still making denial after having giving you verses supporting all I am saying but you prefer falsehood that would profit you nothing on that day.

Read john chapter one to the end. also read about the coming of the messiah witnessed by John the baptist. I know your a Bible scholar and that you know quiet well where to find them.

I have done that and Stimulus raised a thread on that and I will appreciate if you can cotinue from there. John story is a hoax and if you are ready, you and I will dig deep into John 1 v 1 amd you explain the meaning in greek to me.

Jesus came to show us how to communicate with the father, but lets start from john chapter 1 first then you will be able to understand your question above. Oh sorry, really they have mislead you.

Nobody decieved me but you should check yourselfand if you have no The Great Religion, nothing for you n that day because Jesus too was a a great one. Do you care if we create a thread for John 1 v 1?

But bear in mind "if you don't accept Jesus as the son of God after reading John 1 then I go no further with you, because it is written 'don't be equally yoke with an unbeliver"

Thank you for admitting the fact that you are kafir. . Why confusing yourself yourself with what you have no knowledge of. You confused yourself that Jesus is God but now he is son of God!! It seems you are still under your parent's care due to the way you compose your post?

Remain Blessed.

Salam

Let me know if you are ready for a full discussion on John1 v 1

@May Kelly

Jesus is the Word of God.
The Word of God was Made flesh (Jesus)
The Word of God is God
The same was with God in the begining.
MY SWEET LIVING GOD (I mean the GOD of ELIJAH) not every god, has in HIMSELF; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holyspirit.

So can something beside another person be that same thing?
Are you ready to dig deep into the greek meaning of that verse?

But babs787 i want to believe that I am not wasting my time due to your (small brain) up bringing by your re.li.gion. They have planted in you a seed(knowledge) that  will confuse you more about my SWEET GOD AND SWEET HONEY JESUS.

The fact remains that I like you and do not want you to perish and that is the more reason for my preaching to you. I was like you and even stronger in faith than you before God opened my eyes and I do believe that God made me like that so I would appreciate His work and learn about christianity.

OH JESUS I LOVE YOU, ALL I HAVE IS THINE. I CONFESS YOUR MESSIAH OF THE WORLD STILL DEATH. I LOVE YOU LORD JESUS.

I love him too but not as a saviour, lord but as a servant and messenger of God sent to the House of Israel. If you are in support of what I posted with regards to the true Jesus, then you are welcome to my world and anything aside that is a blasphemy in which you in the first cannot prove from your bible.

So babs787 you see, how sweet JESUS is. Forsake all your pride and confusion and comeout from your hideout. HE NEVER FORSAKE!

Where is the pride now babygirl? I have been given you verses from your bible supporting my claim which you have not been able to refute. Do I talk to your parent on religion so that you can be allowed to learn one or two things about The Great Religion and I am very sure that if you could practice it in just two days, you would never want to be a chriatian again. Did I HEAR YOU SAY THAT HE NEVER FORSAKES BUT HE WAS FORSAKEN BY HIMSELF ON THE CROSS WHEN HE SHOUTED MY GOD MY GOD, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN. He forsook himself and prayed to himself

I repeat READ JOHN CHAPTER 1 and then tell me what you understand. then we can continue while I teach you more about MY SWEET JESUS CHRIST.

Do you care if you and I shed more light on John 1 v 1? I  have debunked the other verses where christian hide to preach trinity in which the verses never existed but happened to be later insertion and now is the big bang John 1 v 1 which I am willing to unveil it if you care.

I AM WILLING TO ANSWER ANY THING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IN THE HOLY BIBLE THE TRUTH.

Good.

Do you mind if we treat;

did Jesus die for our sin?
was he sent to the whole world?
Is he your saviour?
was he crucified?
Trinity

and em em. Let us start from the above listed topics.

Remain blessed.

Salam and are you prepared?

@Olaadegbu

The word of God remains a mystery to the natural carnal unbelieving man but it becomes revelation to the spiritual man.  The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is that the unbeliever demands to see before he believes while the believer chooses to believe the Word of God first before he sees God's revealed truth.  When Jesus rose from the dead He only chose to reveal Himself to those who had already believed in Him before He died.

How does the above relates to trinity brother?

Truth stands from falsehood. I have been serving you the truth with facts and verses from your bible and all you could tell me was that believer believes without seeing God!!
I asked you question in my response to your last post and even gave you verses where Jesus made us known that God sent him and I asked you there if Jesus actually sent him and how could he pray to himself and begged himself to save himself!!!

Your brother Backslider still hit the nail on the head that:

The trinity are 3 distinct persons

So if they are different, how come they are still equal?

What is true to you depends on what glassess you wear.  Your worldview will distort your understanding of the Bible, that was the reason I advised you to put your biases aside if you want the author of the Bible who is the Holy Spirit, to give you discernment if you sincerely want to know and do His Will.

Brother, this is not a matter of being biased but seeing the truth because he who sees the truth and accept does so for his own soul. A soul will not be held liable for another soul. Dont even try to mention the holy spirit as being the author of the bible as that would take us to another fresh thread and unveil what you seemed not to have been told all these while as a christian. Read through my last two posts again and you would see that I gave you facts showing that TRINITY  never existed in the bible nor preached thousands of years before Jesus by any of the OT prophets and my last post also contain verses differentiating Jesus from God and I expected you to give explanation to those verses: why Jesus begged himself not to die (more than two times), why he cried to himself on the cross, why he said that he was not good, why he said that someone sent him and that he couldnt do anything on his own, he judged as he received etc and when you honestly explain those glaring verses, then I will accept that Jesus is God.

In Jesus' own words He said that a natural man cannot see or enter the kingdom of God.  As Nicodemus a religious Jewish ruler could not fathom the spiritual birth except he got regenerated.  It is only after you become born the second time by believing the incorruptible word of God, mixing it with faith in your heart that the Holy Spirit will adopt you into the kingdom of God and then you will be able to discern the spiritual contents of the Word of God.

Brother, you keep telling me to believe yet you couldnt explain those verses and how trinity came about to me!! You have been preaching this doctrine times without number yet you couldnt explain it

1  If redemption through the blood of Christ, that one member of the Trinity, is all that is necessary for salvation, how are we to explain the many, many occasions in the Gospel that Jesus details the necessity of submitting directly to the One God - without ever mentioning the role of his (Jesus') redeeming blood?

2  Where, specifically, in the Gospel does Jesus mention the Trinity?


3  How could Jesus possibly have omitted to mention something of such extraordinary importance?

4 How could the authors of the four Gospels have made the same extraordinary omission?

(For no direct reference to the Trinity appears in any chapter or verse of any of the four Gospels.

There is no point serving you with biblical references when you don't believe in the validity of the scriptures.  Do you sincerely believe the verses you quoted as truths?  If you really believe them as the truth then I will give you a few verses that proves that Jesus Christ is God.

Brother, have I said here that I do not believe/disbelieve anything here. I have served you verses and I will sincerely appreciate if you explain those verses to me. Serve the verses and let us read together.

The testimony of Jesus Christ Himself as the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:  John 8:56-59; compare with Exodus 3:5-6
Revelation 1:8,11,17-18; 2:8; 22:12,13; Isaiah 44:6

"Four times the author identifies himself as John (1:1,4,9; 22:, In the third century, however, an African bishop named Dionysius compared the language, style and thought of the Apocalypse (Revelation) with that of the other writings of John and decided that the book could not been written by the apostle of John.    (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1922)"

Revelation 1:11 in the KJV has a reference to Alpha and Omega as applied to Jesus Christ. This title is absent in the RSV and the ancient texts (cf. Companion Bible note to the text). It appears only in the Receptus and hence the KJV.

Hence the original text which reads more or less as the RSV:

Revelation 1:11 11 saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per'gamum and to Thyati'ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice'a." (RSV)

This text becomes in the KJV:

Revelation 1:11 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (KJV)


This insertion in the text is done specifically to support Trinitarianism and negate the intent of the rest of Revelation in this matter.

Revelation 1:8 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (KJV)

Revelation 1:17 and 2:8 do not contain the words Alpha and Omega. They use protos and eschatos which imply another concept in distinction to the Alpha and Omega.

His authority over demons : Luke 4:33-36,41; Mark 5:1-20
Before the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ no one ever cast out any demon.

How does that makes him God?

His authority over nature: Mark 4:37-41;

His authority over death John 11:39-45; Luke 7:12-15

His authority over diseases Mark 7:33; 8:23; Matthews 9:2

His authority to forgive sins Mark 2:7,10-11

He was worshipped and He accepted it John 9:35-38; Hebrews 1:6;

He is the Creator John 1:1-3,14; Heb 1:8-10; Colosians 1:12-16; Gen 1:26

When you are through with the above, please resd these verses showingthat hs miracles were not unique\:


Feeding hundreds with few loafs of bread:


"A man came from Baal Shalishah, bringing the man of God twenty loaves of barley bread baked from the first ripe grain, along with some heads of new grain. "Give it to the people to eat," Elisha said. "How can I set this before a hundred men?" his servant asked.  But Elisha answered, "Give it to the people to eat. For this is what the LORD says: 'They will eat and have some left over.' "  Then he set it before them, and they ate and had some left over, according to the word of the LORD.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Kings 4:42-44)"


Bringing the dead back to life:


"Then he cried out to the LORD , "O LORD my God, have you brought tragedy also upon this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?"  Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried to the LORD , "O LORD my God, let this boy's life return to him!"  The LORD heard Elijah's cry, and the boy's life returned to him, and he lived.   Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house.   He gave him to his mother and said, "Look, your son is alive!"  (From the NIV Bible, 1 Kings 17:20-23)"

"But the child's mother said, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So he got up and followed her.   Gehazi went on ahead and laid the staff on the boy's face, but there was no sound or response. So Gehazi went back to meet Elisha and told him, "The boy has not awakened."  When Elisha reached the house, there was the boy lying dead on his couch.   He went in, shut the door on the two of them and prayed to the LORD.  Then he got on the bed and lay upon the boy, mouth to mouth, eyes to eyes, hands to hands. As he stretched himself out upon him, the boy's body grew warm.  Elisha turned away and walked back and forth in the room and then got on the bed and stretched out upon him once more. The boy sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.  Elisha summoned Gehazi and said, "Call the Shunammite." And he did. When she came, he said, "Take your son."  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Kings 4:30-36)"


Elisha also did what Jesus never did:


"Elisha died and was buried.   Now Moabite raiders used to enter the country every spring.  Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.    Hazael king of Aram oppressed Israel throughout the reign of Jehoahaz.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Kings 13:20-22)"


Healing leprosy:

"Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, "Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed."  But Naaman went away angry and said, "I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy.  Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed?" So he turned and went off in a rage.  Naaman's servants went to him and said, "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'!"   So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy.   (From the NIV Bible, 2 Kings 5:10-14

When you have read all these verses and you still have the appetite for more you will be served.

Read my first two posts, this very last one and maybe do justice to those verses and questions asked therein and revert. Salvation can be found only in The Great Religion

Cheers.

@May Kelly

The FACT STILL remains the fact that JE.SUS IS REINGING everywhere. North,South,East and West more than any other. He is the ORIGINAL MESSIAH AND GOD HIMSELF.

If Jesus is God:

who did he beg to save him from death?
why hid he say that \my lord, why has thou forsaken me?
why is he not having knowledge about th last day except God?
Why did he say that God sent him?


Let me stop there and we continue from your response

@May Kelly

why don't you come out from the midst of wolves, pharisses. Do not look at your sins, Je.sus will redeem you from that. Make haste before is too late.

I dont have to waste my time with you over already lost battle. You claimed Jesus is your personal lrd and savior and I asked you toshow me where he said but you havent been able to do that.


How could Jesus redeem my sin when he himself was afraid of death and begged his creator (three times) to remove the cup from him and when on the cross (as said by you) he cried to his creator that' my Lord, why has thou foesaken me;

@Olaadegbu


Apart from the sayings/facts I served you, I will give you some verses from your book differentiating God from Jesus.


John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me


John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.


John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


1 Corinthians 11:3: Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is YHWH [Jehovah or Yahweh]


Ephesians 1:3-Praise be to the God and[b] Father of our Lord Jesus Christ[/b], who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

1 Peter 1:3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

Revelation 1:6 -Jesus has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned[b] to the Father[/b]. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.


I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (John 5:24)"

Did he send himself?


"So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. (John 8:28)"

READ this please:

John 14 v 28: "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

"Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. (Matthew 10:39-41)"


"And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Luke 10:15-16)"


Apart from the above verses showing that God is above Jesus, below are another verses showing that Jesus is not God as a result of his praying to him:\

Jesus worshiping his God:

Let us look at Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' "

Here in this verse we see two things:

(1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience.
(2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him.
Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !.


Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'"

Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word."

Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above.


Hebrew 5:7 "During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission."

Here we see Jesus prayed to God be saved and God HEARD ( in any religious speech the HEARD means that the person has been answer with the prayer) him.


Happy reading and when you are through, get in touch, Islam is the only religion that guarantees salvation and no other religion will be accepted from you except Islam,

Peace.

@Olaadegbu


Good day brother, hope you are cool? I never knew that you have responded hence my coming late with this response.

I have indeed read your posts and I do appreciate the fact that you have taken the time to reply me with those questions, but I still feel that my answers will be of little or no use to you if you do not allow the author of the bible to open your eyes to the mysteries therein Deut.29:29.

What mystery are you referring to and why no serve me the so-called verse and we look at it together. I have served you facts showing that trinity was neither preached by OT prophets nor exist in the original manuscript but came into some bible as a result of later insertion.

I had earlier on in my posts challenged you to empty yourself of all your dogma, presuppositions, worldviews, pride and ideologies and sincerely ask your creator to reveal His Truth and Personality to you, it is only after then that His Words will make sense to you because they are spiritually discerned.

Brother, dont try deceiving me with that. I have shown no pride nor arrogance but gave you verses even from your bible supporting my claim that there is nothing called trinity and as we progress, I will be serving verses shoqing that Jesus is clearly different from God.

Nicodemus was a religious Jewish ruler who tried to use human reasoning to understand what Jesus meant by being born again in John 3:3-12


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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?[/

Millions of religious adherents today still don't get it. They believe that they can only be born again by water baptism. Water was used figuratively and it means that we can only be born again by faith in the Word of God. 1Peter.1:23; Ephesians 5:26; James 1:18. The Holy Spirit then adopts us into the kingdom of God Romans 8:14-16;Galatians 4:5;Ephesians 1:5. It is only after this that we can be led by the Spirit of God into all Truth Romans 8:14-17

Remember, the emphasis is on faith in the Word of God as in John 1:29

How does the above relates to trinity?

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29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Brother, can you serve me where Jesus himself said that he came to die for you and resurrect after the third day. The account you gave is that of one of those that claimed to have been the real author of the four books. Lest I forget, we will know if really Jesus is the lamb of God and the above verse even showed that God is above Jesus.

Now apart from facts I gave to you on trinity, read the verses below:

Mark 10 v 18: Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."

If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

God is Good
Jesus is not good.
Therefore, God is above Jesus

Trinity doctrine doesn't have basic in either NT nor in OT. They depend on human interpretation to form up this doctrine.

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.


A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and engrafted on the Christian faith."

The Encyclopedia Americana comments: "Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.

Romans 10:9-13

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9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

The above verse was said by Paul who never witnessed Jesus ministry and contradicted himself on his weay to damascus. I will appreciate it if you can give me that from Jesus' mouth because none of the gospellers witnessed his minstry but wrote based on hearsay.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Yes believeth in him in what way? He did not say that you should believe him as God or who who would die for you. In order for you to get to God, you must believe in the prophets he sent and he happened to me one of them.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


So if you trust Jesus as your Lord and Saviour as you would trust a parachute and repent from all known sin and fully turn to Jesus you will be transformed from the natural man to a spiritual man and then experience the mercy of God.

Brother, maybe you would serve me where he said that you should take him as your personal lord and saviour because none of your folks answered my question.

How could he be God when he is not all knowing?
How could he be God when he cried to the one that could save him (he couldnt save himself)?
Must God punish himself before he could be accepted by his creation?

@Cgift

bab787, ori e n wu (your head is swelling abi?) ma a lagimo. what fast one are you pulling here with your known and stale duplicity? I am coming at you soonest.

My head is not swelling at all if that is what you may be thinking . What fast one do you think I pulled? Go through my posts and see if I have not answered your sister/sysuser satisfactorily. Dont try coming soonest because your soonest may mean next year in which you have done recently. So if you have anything for me, set the ball rolling and lets start from there. Note, your argument/debate must be backed with facts be it from the bible or my book.

Take care till I receive your post that is 'coming soonest'



@May Kelly

anyway i have reconsidered, but i won't let you go free; i will hand you over to cgift to finish up.

Why are you re-considering me now ? I decided to let the matter rest because you deciced to stay put to your faith despite all I served you.

I dont think Cgift has that liver because I have engaged him recently and all he could do was ran and re-surfaced again threatening me with his 'comin soonest' .

I have lots to do and if you think you still need more enlightenment, let your Cgift start and you would see him scooting away. .

As for me, I dey kampe

Salam/Shalom

@May Kelly

Samba123, and others alike.

Why not be specific or are you afraid of being bashed/exposed

@Lady

Thanks very much for the post but I think one should ask question if one does not understand one or two things about another's faith but I do not know why it is always deleted.

Thanks very much

@May Kelly


Who are secret cult members? Say it now or I deal with you

@Lady


Please ignore my post and continue with olabowale. I respect people's view and dislike when people are having bad perception of me.

Peace and may God be with you in all your endeavors.

@May Kelly

Babs787, That Sysuser ran away from you, does not guaranty you anything. Just in a short while, I will get back to you in double shoot.

Baby, hope you are doing great . Dont mind that yeye boy that has no liver. Please dont get back at me o , How could you say that you would get back at me in double shoot when you and I have no disagreement o. .

We are one being from the same creator abi no be so. So abegi put that one aside and lets discuss another thing that would be beneficial rather than arguing back and forth that leads us nowhere.

One love my sweet sister

We say "Remain Blessed" but not salam ma,

Na lie . Jesus did not say remain blessed but peace unto you. He even said that when he appeared to his disciples and stood in their midst and I could remember that he told his disciples to say peace to any house they enter. So you can see that it has no difference with that of Mus lim, Salaaaaaaaaaam

Oya say Salaaam to me

@Lady

I have been having this discussion with Olabowale without any tension, so please keep that spirit of tension out.

Did you see any tension in my post?

I never said Muhaaaamad was a false prophet, I asked who's to say they aren't following a false prophet? Don't twist my words.

ok

Like I said if you cannot approach this issue without the spirit of tension, then keep out.

Where did you see that in my post?

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So do we take the accounts of the four gospellers as the real account of Jesus?

But to answer your question. Yes you are to.

Thanks for the response. If you we are to take the account of the gospellers as that of Jesus, how come they are contradicting each other and do we say the four gospellers witnessed him minstry?
(Your response will detemine my giving you bit by bit account of the four gospellers and their sayings that show that they never witnessed his ministry)

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What statements did I read you say was penned down by apostles and can you please show me where Jesus said that they should write them down as his words?

Jesus sent them out to proclaim the news.
Luke 9: 1-6
1. He summoned the Twelve and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases,
2 and he sent them to proclaim the kingdom of God a[b]nd to heal the sick[/b]
3 He said to them "Take nothing for the journey, neither walking stick, nor sacl, nor food, nor money, and let no one take a second tunic
4 Whatever house you enter, stay there and leave from there
5 And as for those who do not welcome you, when you leave that town, shake the dust from your feet in testimony against them"
6 Then they set out and went from village to village proclaiming the good news and curing diseases everywhere.

Do you have it anywhere in the bible where they performed miracles, heal the sick, cure diseases and eat poison without being affected?

There are different ways to proclaiming. Ofcourse here it is evident that they used word of mouth, but writing it down will not be out of line. Writing it down made it easier for the news to be carried around. You truly have to know why it is these books were written and you have to know who these books address.

Your above post did not in any way answer my question. I asked you to provide where Jesus told them to write the message down but all you could provide me were verses where Jesus gave them instruction to preach, heal cure etc.

Now, we all know that God gave Jesus a revelation and not four revelations, so where is the gospel of Jesus and the one he preached with because he made it known to us that he came to preach the gospel.

The Gospels were written by the apostles and or those who were with them.

Which of the two are you taking please? Were they written by apostles or those with them? I want to serve you something to show that they never witnessed his ministry but collected the story from hearsay and will still let you know as we proceed that the original message given to Jesus is lost and the bible you now carry today is being compiled by pagans.

They testified to the works and words of Jesus. Included in these are the Acts of the Apostles and it does what the title says, it shows the actions and words of the apostles.

Sister, please do not let us go into that of paul which you rate so much and will give his sayings that contradicted that of Jesus. He brought message for the gentiles and had to change everything Jesus preached to suite that of Gentiles.

Christ showed them the way to the Lord and they in their actions and words brought people to turn from their evil ways and turn to the Lord. The New Testament Letters were written by Paul as he spread the word to the Gentiles to show them the way to God's kingdom.

All the letters were not written by Paul alone but by some people again. You also admitted that the letters were written by Paul and please are those letters supposed to be part of the bible? Mus lims too have the sayings of leaders, apostles, sayings of The Great Prophet (saw) which are written in separate book and not in the Great Book.

These letters testify to how a christian is to live his/her life pleasing to God.

You are right but mind you, Jesus never knew anything called christianity during his time and the words was first used by pagan before being accepted by all.

It shows the different scenarios happening in the early church and Paul tells them how to handle situations and live their life pleasing to God.

Sister, are you aware that he went against Jesus' teaching and contradicted himself on his way to damascus when he claimed to have seen/heard Jesus' voice.

Some of those letters were written specifically to particular churches, but if you read them, you will see that the same issues were happening all over thee churches and that Paul is consistent in his letters (they tend to be redundant).

I am not disputing the fact that he sent letters out but what I am interested in is that the letters shouldnt have been part of the bible and bible should be words of God only and any other addition, subtraction from apostles etc should have been in a separate book just like great ones have the hadith etc.

And then you have the book of revelation which gives account of the end of days.

I don't believe in that revelation that is not consistent with the end of days. John claimed that Jesus/showed it to him in the dream and shouldbnt be taken seriously and part from that, we have issues therein in which by the time we dig deep into that book of revelation, you would never be proud of it again. There are contradictory, fictitious stories therein and if you care, we can treat the book of revelation separately

Quote
So if Jesus is your God, who did he shout to on the cross?
Who did he pray to?
Why did he say God is greater than him and that God sent him? (Verses on that coming soon and will take you to early christian writing that rejects trinity)


No need to show me I know about these. I already showed proof of Jesus saying that he and the Father are one. I don't see the need to be redundant. You can read my posts.

I am not being redundant but after the truth. You believe that Jesus is God because he said He and fathere are one and if we to use that as the reason for his being God, then go through the verse below which I showed you earlier:

John 17v 20-22: "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".

If Jesus could be God because he and father are on,e what about Jesus making another statement that they all be made one in the above verse? Do we say they are God too as a result of that statement?


Also from your bible (Catholic bible):

John 17 v 20:And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me.
21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: that, they may be one, as we also are one.
23 I in them, and thou in me: that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.
25 Just Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee. And these have known that thou hast sent me.


From your bible above, Jesus made it known that he was sent and for someone to have sent another person, it means that that individual is superior to the one being sent.


From NAB (New American Bible)

John 17 v 20:"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,

21: so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.

22: And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,

23: I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.

25: Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.


The above verses are self explanatory, showing that God is superior to Jesus and He sent him.



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Is the JOHN that wrote the gospels same as his disciple?

Yes, he is even known as Christ's beloved disciple.

Thanks very much. As we proceed, we will digress into all  the books accorded to John and see if the author really happened to be the disciple of Jesus.

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Now why didnt he say that before Noah he was because we know fully well that Noah and Adam came before Abraham?

Did you forget that he was speaking to the Jews and that the covenant was given to the Jews through Abraham and not Noah. Yes he could very much say that and he probably did.

You did not get me. I am not that particular about the covenant being given through Abraham but your saying that that Jesus existed before the creation of things or when God started creation and if that happens to be, he would have said that he is older than Adam who happened to be the first creation.

John let us know that there were more things that Jesus said and did, but were not penned down, but enough was penned down so that we may believe.

Sister, go through the statement of John again and you would see that he said that so that you may believe his words. Another thing to look out for is that , out of all the gospellers, it is only John that accorded 'the only begotten son' to Jesus while others did not.

If his deeds, sayings were not all penned down, where do you think the reaming would have been and don't you think the bible is incomplete for saying that they did not pen down all his actions and sayings? John said that so that you may believe in him words.

If you are asking this question are you insinuating that he was before Abraham but not before Noah? He could have clearly said before Adam, but Abraham was enough to show his eternal presence.

Sister, I am not insinuating that but I smell foul therein. Christians claim that Jesus exist since creation and there is nowhere he made that statement. You (christians) also claim that Jesus is Gid and there is nowhere in the bible Jesus said that I AM GOD but he made statements showing that God is superior to him.

Don't counter this with anything having to do with some things were left out, because it was not. You can't honestly tell me that Muhaaaamad's life to every second was penned down. So skip that.

Good, his life might have not been penned down but what I am letting you know is that since the bible is the word of God, it should contain everything and shouldnt leave out anything. The Qura n is the word of God, we have hadith that contain sayings of the prophet, we have books containing doings of the prophets etc and all these are written in separate books by scholars etc which form not part of the The Great Book but written separately and I think that is how the bible should have been in the first place.

This is why you need the spirit to understand.
Ok if you say so then refute the words of Christ that I posted. If you're interpretation of this above passage is true then how then is it that he could be one in the father.

I have not refuted his saying but letting you know that if Jesus could be God just because he said he and the father are one, what of the verse he said that he and the disciples are would be one?


John 17v 20-22: "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".

Jesus did not mean that he is God but he and God will be one in the sense that people see God in him through his deeds, sayings etc because he was God's representative and people must go through him to know about God. He happened to be one with Father doing what God asked and sent him to do and not going against His will.

Just so you know, the last verse you quoted does not say that it would be a case of 13 Gods. What part of ONE do you not understand?

Read above post please.

Well you seem to be an interpreter, will you please interpret the verses I provided. Please don't beat around the bush give me an interpretation.

Sister, I am not an interpreter but the verse is very straight and needs no beating around the bush and looking for what is not lost. If the verse you supplied meant that Jesus is God, what about the verse I gave to you from the book of John?

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He happened to be the way, truth and Light during his time and that is what every prophets did. They happened to be the way, directing people to God, the truth: representing God by telling the truth so that people believe in God through them and being the Light, serving as perfect example in which followers emulate in getting close to God.


Um no, he is eternal. The prophecies about him, not Muhaaaamad says so.

I think I like you but that doesnt mean we mustnt be truthful in what we preach and do. In what way is he eternal and what prophecies are you referring to. He did what God sent him just like the other prophets too. Maybe you can give me part of those prophecies and we examine them. I don't want to go much into Jesus' topic because some christians say I deride him despite the fact I give them verses supporting my posts from the bible. He is my prophet as well but he was neither killed nor crucified for you. His similitude is that of Adam that was created and God said 'be' and it was. His miracles are not that spectacular, prophets and messengers before him did similar miracles.

Quote
Madam, the verses above are welf explanatory. Jesus did not mean that he is God but that through the work he does, people would know God through him and not being God himself.


Yes he does, he said, whoever has seen me has seen the Father. I am in the Father and he is in me. Don't skip verse 9 and verse 11.What question did he ask him in verse 9

.


Yes he made that statement but he only meant that he represents God and whoever sees him has seen the father through what he does, preaches and he made statements that God sent him and God is greater than him, so what further evident do you need to show that God is superior to him and I can even start giving you verses where he said that God is above him.

Madam, full picture of what please?

I gave the full scenario and not just the words that he used.

Still can't conprehend.

But to answer your question, only One. The one that has always been. Must everything be seen in the physical? For you to believe. If so why do you believe in God. Have you seen him? The Spirit is just that, a Spirit, not a physical.

I am not saying that everything must be seen physically before I would believe. I asked that question because christians say that Jesus referred to Holy spirit and we all know that Holy spirit has been in existence since creation. For Jesus to have said another comforter, it means that the comforter would be like him (human being with the same kind of work). We cannot accept that Jesus referred to Holy spirit because the comforter to come would be a new being that has never come before and would be like Jesus and we all know that Holy spirit has been since creation, so another comforter couldnt have been another holy spirit.

Sister, if the Torah has not been changed, tampered with, what happened to 66 books of protestant and yours being 73?

We have some books mentioned in the bible but their whereabouts cannot be accounted for?
We have verses present in some versions but missing in others?
If we are saying the Torah is the same, did  God give the book of Genesis down to Micah to Moses and did Moses write his obituary?

I am not speaking about the Protestants, I am speaking about the Bible, as it is unchanged. Take that up with a Protestant.

Part of my question still goes to you as a christian that uses the bible.

Ok since you seem to know the answers why don't you tell us then. I am seriously waiting. Then you will receive my answer.

I asked you first and your response would determine my coming in.

One more thing, DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT approach me as you do others here. Not all Christians are true and not all actually live up to the word. I started having this discussion with Olabowale because I truly want to understand the muuuuslims, so keep your rude attitude to yourself. I am not here to attack Islaaaam.

Sister, calm down. Be honest to yourself, in what way have I responded to christians? I am not attacking your religion but letting you know the truth about what they have been saying all these while and if you are willing, we can take up the topics one at a time and we discuss. Besides, I dont post in threads that do not concern me. I believe in one love and we can all live togther happily regardless of our religious background.I only respond to some based on the way they have been doing. I was a christian and have christian friends in which we play, talk and relate very well but came to Nairaland when I read offensive/rude approach made by christians towards my God, prophet and religion.God did not give two prophets two different religion/message but people along the line tampered with the original message and divide the religion into sects. I am sorry if I have sounded insultive but you shouldnt typed in the way you did. We are still brother and sister regardless of our differences. I am truly very sorry if you had misunderstood me.

Shalom

I think one question should be asked at a time so as to give space for response because it seems Lady too volunteered to reply if its broken down and I am beginning to see her as another Pilgrim .

So do break it down and let me read lots of response while I sit at a corner reading from people becoming coming in with biblical and Q u ranic verses that would serve as rebuttal.

@MC Usman

Wow he is stupid, What are we susposed to believe in? We evolved over million's of year's from monkey's?

or we all popped out of a hole in the ground and lived together with dinosaurs like in the Flinstones !!!

D D D D

Hope you didnt refer to Samba with your last quote



@Samba123

@McUsman

I will not retort you because we are both Mus’lim. Next time if you misquote me again you expect a payback.

Payback ke, no its not yet time and there would be no time for it
Do be offended, he was not referring to you jare. We are all muslims and we will forever be . Dont let any intruder pour sand sand for our discussion

Maa Salam

Character-building

Salam Alaykum Brothers and Sisters!

The call of the Adhan summons you five times a day to the presence of the Lord of the universe; five times a day you put everything aside to rush to Him; before every Prayer you purify your bodies and souls with wudu’; and you are fully aware of the meaning of the things you are saying during the Prayer. In such circumstances is it not inevitable that the fear of God will arise in your hearts, that you will feel ashamed to break God’s commandments, that your wins will weigh heavily on your consciences? How, then, when you return to your work after the Prayer, can you justify telling or giving bribes, paying or levying interest, and committing indecent or illegal acts? And how, after doing any of these things, can you possibly go back to God at the next Prayer and seriously reaffirm your obedience to Him? Seriously say, thirty-six times a day, ‘Thee alone we worship, Thee alone we ask for help’, and afterwards ask favour of others in worship?

Properly understood and performed, Salah must improve your morals and, where necessary, fundamentally change your lives. This is why Allah emphasizes: ‘Surely Prayer restrains [man] from all that is shameful and wrong’. If it does not, the reason lies in you, not in the Prayer. It is not the fault of soap and water that coal is black.

Perhaps one great obstacle to Prayer doing its purifying work is that you may not fully understand or give serious attention to the words you recite in Arabic. A little extra effort in learning by heart these recitations in our own language may bring you rich reward.

May Allah grant us the Will to always keep HIS commandment, doing good and restrain from all forms of evils. (ameen).

@May Kelly

We have nothing to argue to debate about, FOR WHAT I KNOW I KNOW AND WHAT I BELIEVE I BELIEVE, JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS OF CALVARY FOR ME.

You believe but cannot prove or refute all biblical verses going against that.

HE IS ABLE TO WASH AWAY MY SINS.

With what did he wash your sin? How could someone that was afraid to die wsh away your sin. He even made straight forward quotes that he caame to preach and you must be born again to gain paradise and that you should believe in his sacrifice like Ogun worshipper th uses dog for sacrifice or Ogboni/cult that uses human being for sacrifice

HE IS MY SAVIOUR AND AS WELL GOD. HE IS THE WORD OF GOD THAT WAS MADE FLESH. THE WORD OF GOD IS GOD.

Do you have any verse supporting your saying. Ok, I almost forgot that you are catholic and should be willing to die for this trinity because you started it and ever since you started it, catholic have been calling the doctrine of trinity a mystery. Let me have any verse supporting it and we digress a little bit into the early manuscript to see it it really exist and if erly christians ever preached same. Dont you have senses? How could a God that created heaven and earht be not aware of when the world would end?
How could someone that created heaven and earth be subjected to that kind of death meant for criminals?
How could your God said that they should not call him good that the only one that is good is the one in heaven?
how could your God be lesser to the one in heaven yet they are equal.
How could someone thaat created heaven, earth human beings be tortured by that His creation?
How could your God be begging himself?

I feel like continue but must stop for you to have a re-think.

You need to find time, revert to The Great Religion and be saved because all these bullshit would lead nowhere but destruction.

BUT I DON'T BLAME YOU; YOUR LIKE ONE OF THE FALLEN ANGELS THAT'S WHY YOU RAN INTO BOUNDAGE THINKING YOU HAVE FOUND THE TRUTH.

Are you saying that Satan was an angel. Any proof for that? He was one of the Jinn.

bUT BE WARNED!!!

About?

JESUS SAID "IAM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND LIFE" what are am saying; THAT MY JESUS DIE FOR ME.

Yes he was the waay during his time for his community that he ws sent to and thaat applies to all prophets. They did same to their respective communities.

THAT MY JESUS IS NEITHER SLAVE, BUT A MESSIAH TO THE WHOLE WORLD not only in ISREAL.

Really? Do you read your bible at all or listen to what hear in your church?

Babs787, do not allow devil to blame you simply because you are entitle to FOUR WIVES.

I am very sure that you would be small for me to marry sef ., So na the four wives dey pain you huh. There is nowhere any of the prophets preached against marrying more than one wife and if you have it, pleaase send it to me Asap.
In addition, plese go to this educative thread and learn more about polygamy.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.576.html

Babs787 if I may ask "WHAT WILL IT PROFIT YOU TO GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD AND LOSSES YOUR SOUL??

You should tell your leaders that have been deceiving you all these while, using his name to lead you astray and we the truth is unfolding itself. You would have read or been told about Idahosa and now we have that of Oyakhilome. Some of your leaders even collect power from Jinn and claim that it is from Jesus.

In what way have i gained the whole world. The above statement fits you christian and you have time, money, lies etc to attract people but The Great Religion has none but still waxing stronger because it is from God. Even if your good deeds is like ocean, it would never be accepted from you without having The Great Religion.

Think twice and I advice you to forsake what you now believe and go back to your root; for there life in there.

What is the root. Is christianity the root. Was it prctised by early prophets?

AND I HAVE TOLD YOU; STOP CALLING JESUS BETTER CALL HIM ISSA, BECAUSE ISSA IS NOT THE SAME AS JESUS THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

What is his name in Aramaic?

and I repeat stop misquoting me " I NEVER TOLD YOU THAT JESUS SAID WE SHOULD CALL HIM GOD" JESUS IS HUMBLE AND WILL NEVER DISCLOSE HIMSELF TO YOU. JESUS IS NOT A BOASTER.

So how come you call him God?

In GOD we have: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
In Man we have: The Body, The Soul and the Mind.

Can I have it in that wy from the bible?


Bab787 how can i explain these to you, when you read and write only arab thinking that God understand that language only. HOW COULD YOU think of things like that; Do not be BRAIN WASHED  .


I have not but you have been deluded  and inclined to falsehood despite all you have read here yourself.

GOD RAISE JESUS FROM DEATH.

Did he raise himself from death?

YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE BECAUSE YOUR GOD HAS LIMITATION.

What limnitation please?

Christian's GOD DO NOT HAVE LIMITATIONS; OUR GOD IS GOD OF IMPPOSSIBILITIES, HENCE JESUS WALKED ON THE SEA.

Abegi, his miracle was not special. Most  of the prophets did one miracle or the other for people to believe that they are from God but Islaam is not after that and that is what they have been using to deceive you. Lame would walk, blind would see etc. Hogwash

With your little brain "I DON'T THINK YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THESE AT ALL"

I do my little friend but you should check yourself.

May wisdom and understanding be your portion as you make a You-Turn without shame.

Thanks for telling me to stay glue with ISLAM and i am calling you to have a change of heart and see how sweet The Great Religion is.

@May Kelly

Think twice and I advice you to forsake what you now believe and go back to your root; for there life in there. AND I HAVE TOLD YOU; STOP CALLING JESUS BETTER CALL HIM ISSA, BECAUSE ISSA IS NOT THE SAME AS JESUS THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

What is the name he is being in his language (Aramaic)?
Was he ever known as Jesus during his time and in his language?

and I repeat stop misquoting me " I NEVER TOLD YOU THAT JESUS SAID WE SHOULD CALL HIM GOD" JESUS IS HUMBLE AND WILL NEVER DISCLOSE HIMSELF TO YOU. JESUS IS NOT A BOASTER.

So how did you come about caalling him God?

In GOD we have: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
In Man we have: The Body, The Soul and the Mind.

Can I have where it is stated in that way in the bible?

Bab787 how can i explain these to you, when you read and write only arab thinking that God understand that language only. HOW COULD YOU think of things like that; Do not be BRAIN WASHED

Baby, Islam makes it easier for me to relate with a muslim from another world? I believe you being a caatholic cannot worship with a protestant because you use rosary and kneel in front of statue of Mary while they dont.

You cannot expect them to take holy communion like you do in your denomination.

A white garment member cannot worship in your own congregation so also Jehocah witness. As you have different denominations, so also your bible differs, some 73 while some 66 and some having verses missing.

GOD RAISE JESUS FROM DEATH.

No let view it this way. Your God died, so who raised him up? I believe your God couldnt have raised himself up because he was already dead.

YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE BECAUSE YOUR GOD HAS LIMITATION.

Limitation to what?

Christian's GOD DO NOT HAVE LIMITATIONS; OUR GOD IS GOD OF IMPPOSSIBILITIES, HENCE JESUS WALKED ON THE SEA.

Babygirl, the similitude off Jesus is like that of Adam, created from dust. Most of the things/miracles done by JESUS were done by prophets before him too. If you are saying that he woke the dead, we have prophets that did that and so on.

With your little brain "I DON'T THINK YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THESE AT ALL"

I may have a little brain but will still give you part of my brain for your biblical study because you must have been a toddler or not yet born when I started reading the bible. So that statement is too big for you to utter. Your pope/pastor etc should be in the position to accuse me of that. No offense please.

May wisdom and understanding be your portion as you make a You-Turn without shame.

U turn ke. I prefer to die a muslim than a kafir that has no hope in the hereafter. Mind you, Jesus ws not a christian and not sent to you and would deny you on that day.

And I can finish anything started with you or me; because MY GOD HAS NO LIMIT.

Which God, that of the OT or NT and i will show you lots of limitation from your BIBLE.

@Frizy

Insert Quote
@Kola Oloye
My brother bab787 made a mistake check[b] 2:111.[/b] Not eleven. That is one of the several verses showing that believing that christ died for your sins is just a claim; a claim unregconized by God Himself.
Please if you believe in God, then read the Kor'an to know what the real truth is!

Salam. I didnt check that I have deleted one (1) before sending. It was a typographical error and thanks very much for the correction. I didnt want to give him the full verse but want him to do the search by himself since he has been asking for the Surah and chapter.

Thumbs up

@Kola Oloye

We are here to learn and i only asked a simple question which you found difficult to answer.
I JUST DEY PITY YOU PEOPLE, AM STILL WAITING FOR THE SURAH and the VERSE. THANKS

This is it if you really want to learn:

Read The Great Book 2v11

@4him

You say its false not because you're right but because you're confused. Read Christ's response to Phillip when he also asked Christ to show him the Father.

Can we have the verse here please?

But you missed where Christ Himself specifically addressed this - John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I thought you should have known Jesus better but it seems you get confused at every statement being made by him. Jesus speaks in proverbs and even in the above verse, there is still nowhere of him being crucified for you

Your confusion is based on your lack of understanding of who Christ and the Father is. Start from there.

So you put us through who Jesus and Father are.

@noisy chicken

I know that you don't need an answer but here they are

Let me read the answer from the noisy one

Mark 16:16
Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

Apart from the response theY have given you and without going far into the bible, the verse quoted above says anyone who believe and is baptised would be saved and there is nowhere Jesus says that anyone who believes in HIS BLOOD SERVING AS REMISSION OF SIN WOULD BE SAVED AND THAT HE WOULD BE CRUCIFIED.

9 After Jesus rose from the dead early on Sunday morning, the first person who saw him was Mary Magdalene, the woman from whom he had cast out seven demons. 10 She went to the disciples, who were grieving and weeping, and told them what had happened.

To whom did Jesus appear first:

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary as Matthew 28:9 claims?
Mary Magdalene only as Mark 16:9 claims?
Cephas (Peter) and then the other disciples, as 1 Corinthians 15:5 claims?
Matthew 28:9 claims that Jesus appeared before the women even had reported to the disciples what they found (or didnt) at the tomb.
Also in Mark 16:9 the appearance to Mary Magdalene was before Mary made any report to the disciples.
However, John and Luke report no appearance before the women reported an empty tomb to the disciples.
Matthew 28:1 states two women (Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary) came to the tomb

Which is correct?

And:

Mark 16:1 states it was three women (Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome)

Luke 24:10 agrees it was three women but gives a different list of three than Mark (Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James)

John 20:1 states it was only Mary Magdalene.


Which is correct?

11 But when she told them that Jesus was alive and she had seen him, they didn’t believe her.
12 Afterward he appeared in a different form to two of his followers who were walking from Jerusalem into the country. 13 They rushed back to tell the others, but no one believed them.

In appearing to the disciples, to whom did Jesus first appear:

All eleven together (Matthew 28:17-18)?
Two of them on the road, then to all eleven together (Mark 16:12-14 and Luke 24:13-31)? To ten of the eleven (minus Thomas) together (John 20:19-24)?
To Peter, then the others (1 Corinthians 15:5)?
The story recounted in John 20:25-29 is all premised on an appearance of Jesus (peace be upon him) before the disciples at which Thomas was not present!
Matthew 28:17-18, Mark 16:12-14 and Luke 24:13-31 all disagree with John about any such meeting taking place in the absence of Thomas!

14 Still later he appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating together. He rebuked them for their stubborn unbelief because they refused to believe those who had seen him after he had been raised from the dead.

Read my post up and when you are through, please why did they disbelief his death when they knew that he would resurrect?

15 And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. 16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

Good, he did not say that anyone who believe in his blood would be saved.

17 These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages.[e] 18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”

Liar, you are a born again christian no doubt, so try get a posion and drink and lets see if you would be covered. Lots of people have died as a result of this sayings and we have a story of a man that went to lion's den thinking that the lion would not do anything like that of the bible but alas the lion tore him into shreds and so many stories like that

And again

Ok

John 5:24
“I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

I thought you have been saying that he is God but how come somebody else sending him? For God to have sent him, it means that He is superior to him.

John 6:47
“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life.

Good but not in his blood. Remember when a man went up to hm to enquire on how to gain eternal life, Jesus told him to keep the commandments in order to have life and to believe in blood.

John 14:6
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

I have explained that on some many occasions.

@Cgift


You have my support if you would open a thread and we thread issues about my Prophet rather than trying to divert topic