₦airaland Forum

Mine is tundebabs787@yahoo.com.
I am always available and please do feel free to contact and we share what might have happened together.

@Lady

LOL, Ofcourse not. They're not bad people, but who's to say they're not following a false prophet?

I don't like people that posts without backing it up with facts. Suport your allegation with facts and we go from there please.

A lot of people will disagree with you on the part about Muha::mmad not resembling what Christ spoke about. Afterall he did do a lot of evil things and went against God's commandment and then there's the part about him changing his mind. It's just not consistent.

Just like my above post, back up your allegation and we start from there

Quote
Obvious sections; You have versions of the Bible. The catholic Bible is earlier than that of the protestant. But the protestant Bible is missing a few Books in the catholic's Duwey Bible. Isn't it. Further you have editions and revisons abounds. One will ask, where is the original. There must have been an original. That would have contained exactly what jesus said. Without any adulteration.

So do we take the accounts of the four gospellers as the real account of Jesus?

But you can still show me. I am a Catholic, so you can use my Bible (not the Douay-Rheims version, don't exactly trust it much)
Where did Jesus say that the scribes corrupted the Old Testament? The letters written to the church communities were written by the Apostles. The statements are from Jesus penned down by the Apostles.

What statements did I read you say was penned down by apostles and can you please show me where Jesus said that they should write them down as his words? 

In the letters the apostles are carrying out the message of Jesus, so they're not opinions but what he actually told them. Jesus didn't in the literal sense say that he was God, he never denied it either, but he absolutely implied it.

So if Jesus is your God, who did he shout to on the cross?
Who did he pray to?
Why did he say God is greater than him and that God sent him? (Verses on that coming soon and will take you to early christian writing that rejects trinity)

Jesus speaking to the Jews as penned down by his apostle John

Is the JOHN that wrote the gospels same as his disciple?

John 8: 55-58
56. Abraham you father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad.
57. So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old and you say you have seen Abraham?"
58. Jesus said to them, "Amen, Amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."

Now why didnt he say that before Noah he was because we know fully well that Noah and Adam came before Abraham?

John 10:30-38
30. The Father and I are one
31. The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him
32. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me."
33. The Jews answered him, "We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God."
34. Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are Gods"'?
35. If it calls them gods to whom the word of God came, and scriture cannot be set aside,
36. can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world of blasphemes because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
37. If I do not perform my Father's works, do not believe me;
38. but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may realise [and understand] that the Father is in me and I am in the Father."

Read from verse 29 that says:
'My Father, which gave them me[b], is greater than all;[/b] and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above verse came right before 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father.

Also John 14 v 28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I

Jesus also made clear statements that he was sent by God so he couldnt be God himself.
If you are saying that Jesus is God just because he said that Father is in him and he is in the father (he and father are one), what of the verse below:

17v 20-22: "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".

In this verse, the same word ONE used, the Greek, HEN is used, not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods.

Jesus speaking to his disciples at the last supper
John 14: 6-9
6. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

He happened to be the way, truth and Light during his time and that is what every prophets did. They happened to be the way, directing people to God, the truth: representing God by telling the truth so that people believe in God through them and being the Light, serving as perfect example in which followers emulate in getting close to God.

7. If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
8. Philip said to him, "Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us."
9. Jesus replied to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father . How then can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10. Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.
11. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.

Madam, the verses above are welf explanatory. Jesus did not mean that he is God but that through the work he does, people would know God through him and not being God himself.

There are more verses, but I think these are enough, lol, sorry I know it's long, I just want to give you the full picture, I don't like picking and choosing.

Madam, full picture of what please?

My Comforter is here by the pure preservation of the Qu"""""ran and the provision of new information which Jesus never spoke about. For example, how i take shower to purify myself after sexual experience, is taught by Muha"""""mmad and Jesus did not teach it. What about a simple thing as just eating, sneezing, yawning, etc? There is a million, nay a billion or trillion more issues like these.

Sister, if Holy spirit happens to be the comforter jesus mentioned, how many comforters would we be having since one is already in existence since creation?

Ok I need u to show me historical facts about the Torah being changed. All I keep coming up with are what the muuuslims say. I need another source, to me right now the Qu'ran is not credible.

Sister, is the Torah has not been changed, tampered with, what happened to 66 books of protestant and yours being 73?

We have some books mentioned in the bible but their whereabouts cannot be accounted for?
We have verses present in some versions but missing in others?
If we are saying the Torah is the same, did  God give the book of Genesis down to Micah to Moses and did Moses write his obituary?

@Kola Oloye

Quote from: Frizy on April 10, 2008, 07:01 PM
From the Qu'ran: And they say: "You will not attain Paradise(Heaven biblically) save you are a Christain or Jew. These are their own saying! Say (O Muhamme'd): Have you received a covenant from All'ah(God), truly Alla'h break not His covenant.Or tell ye concerning All'ah that which ye know not?



WHAT SURAH IS THIS ONE AND WHAT VERSE?

Are you denying the existence of that verse? The verse is a challenge to you, so counter it with verses from your book and I will come with rebuttal from your book supporting the above as well.

Oyakhilome fulfilled Jesus' statement that fake pastors will arise and deceive so many and on that that the fake ones will say Lord, Lord, did we not prophesised/heal in your name and he would tell them that go away from me, you evil doers.

Let me read more tory please

@May Kelly

@babs787, JESUS DIE FOR ME.

Where was he crucified?
When was he crucified?
Who witnessed the crucifixion?
In what way was Jesus like Jonah?
Did he fulfil the three days and three nights in the belly of the earth ( when he wasnt even buried)


T

hat is my believe and even in the grave I will still say the same thing.

You are one of those that follow a particularv saying or action just because you found people doing it or you were told that it the truth without finding out yourself. You have been shown clear facts here that Jesus did not die for you nor was he your personal saviour.

Your Bible/Great Book quote is incomplete.

Do you care to show me the incomplete part?

EVEN IN THE GRAVE JESUS IS THE GOD THE SON.

So your God died . How could he be God when he said he did not know when the world would end except the father?
How could he be God when he shouted to God to save him?
How could he be God when he begged God to save him?
How could he be God when he said that the One that SENT HIM IS GREATER THAN HIM?

Believe him for your sins;

I belive in him as well as other prophets too because it is in my article of faith. Believe in Allah, believe in Angels, believe in Prophets, believe the last day, believe in His books etc. I believe in Jesus as a slave and messenger of Allah sent for Israel, he was nether your savior nor God, he was not killed or crucified and did not die for your sin.

The similitude of Jesus is like that of Adam that was created from dust and Allah say to it' be' and it was.

for those who put their trust in the FATHER THROUGH JESUS CHRIST HAVE NEVER BEEN DISAPPOINTED.

What sort of disappointment are you talking about so that I give you some?
You gotta believe in Jesus as well as in the last prophet and book and by doing that, you will gain paradise. Remember when a man went to Jesus and asked him how to gain paradise, the man called him good and JESUS told him that there is no good person except the creator in heavenm and that if he must gain paradise, he must KEEP THE COMMANDMENT AND NOT DONT WORRY JUST BELIE E IN MY BLOOD AND YOU WOULD BE SAVED. The commandment he referred to is the same as that of Moses but when given part of Ot to you, you claim that it was for the jews.

Believe the bible it is the truth of all
rel igions.

What truth?

May God the Father gives you understanding and opens up your inner mind and eyes and remove that believe that when you fight a war thereby killing others you will go to heaven hell.

Hold on baby girl. God gave me understanding which made me find out the truth about Islam and what christianity is all about and sped up my leaving it for Islam. At times, I beliee that God wanted me to learn about christianity hence my being born by christian, grew up in chriatian community, went to missionary school, a strong evangelist in my church (then we dont have all these new generation churches that preach prosperity)

Point of correction, God did not tell me to be killing people to gain heaven and if you have it, please let me have it.

You still havent shown me where Jesus said I AM GOD AND THAT YOU SHOULD TAKE HIM AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOR

@May Kelly


Abegi, you want my stomach to burst with laughter . Dont mind the yeye boy, it seems he is not man enough. He raised it and I gave him options only for him to be shivering. In addition witness, when you are ready let me know and you wouldnt be needing any holy book, I will supply you all the versions you may need and the year of publication

Babs i dey feel u, can someone tell me is jesus God or son or a messenger * Note* father is different from son.


Read JOHN chapter 1
May God give you understanding.

What is happening on John 1? Tell us so we share together because I read it in the bible that we should all come and rwason together and our creator is not an author of confusion. Also the I read in the book of Thessalonians that prove all things and hold fast which is the truth. So my dear Sister, what is John 1?

John 1 did neither say Jesus is son nor God. Lest I forget, do not try to start what Stimulus started and couldnt finish

Salam

I love your post on Jinn. Please keep it and will come in when the time comes and we will also go into the world of angels after that of the Jinn

Empty words. You all know that you have various versions of Great Book but you rather defend it with your life than admit the truth. Hmmm, is the issue of consequence a threat or what?

Some have eyes but prefer to walk blind and some have senses but prefer posting senselessly.

Go through my posts and you would see that I did justice to her question. When you finish satisfying yourself, you still change your id to Nwando, its a free world.

@noisycheeks
(Nwando tc)

Na wao, babs787, na so you dey envy me reach wey you go copy my signature. Good! But one more thing, accept the lord Jesus as your lord and personal saviour and enjoy a world of bliss.

I don't envy Kafir. I started using it before you could ever think of doing same. I have asked your folks question on Jesus being your saviour but no response yet and maybe you can do me proud by giving me where Jesus SAID THAT YOU SHOULD ACCEPT HIM AS PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOUR AND THAT ANYBODY THAT DOES NOT ACCEPT HIM AS SUCH WOULD BE DOOMED.So let me have it straight from Jesus' mouth.

:d :d

@May Kelly

haba! babs787, no matter how good selfish you are, you should first ask "WHERE IS WITNESS" or are you not missing him despite all the wahala his giving to you and me and to all as well? WHERE IS SYSUSER WITNESS?

You may call me whatever you feel like. It is a free world and there is freedom of expression.

He would soon come back with another id, from sysuser to sysuserx, not. seun and finally to witness and we have not seen what he really came to witness.

Yeye boy

+osisi & pilgrim.1. Let me throw this question to you, especially for +osisi. From your argument, is like you have agreed that there are differents versions of the HOLY BIBLE and you are now looking for ways / tacts to pronounce to the world that the HOLY QURAN is also having versions?
If not why don't you creat time to defend the uniformity or oneness of the HOLY BIBLE instead of criticising the HOLY QURAN.
To be frank with ourselves, it is just the pronouciation and translations that differs, we don't have different versions of HOLY QURAN and we will never have. Unless you want to creat one and face the consequence. I even pray that the consequence of this topic of yours will not distratrous/catastrophic/devastating to you here and hereafter.
May God forgive us.

Salam and thanks very much for noticing the kind of person some of this christians are. I have answered her earlier only for her to come her and pretend as if I have not.

Just like you said, may Allah forgive us all and open the eyes of those that are already lost.

@Witness


Aburo/friend, read the below exposure and get in touch ASAP.

Let us expose some facts:


Jesus did not come to die


The Jews of Palestine expected the arrival of a Prophet who’d overthrow the Roman government and destroy the occupation, not to be crucified by them! Jesus made it clear that the purpose of his mission was to preach the Law and the Gospel (only) to the Children of Israel:


Jesus replied, "Let us go somewhere else—to the nearby villages—so I can preach there also. That is why I have come." (Mark 1:38)

But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent." (Luke 4:43)


For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. (Matthew 18:11, KJV only)

For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10)


But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13)


Jesus was unwilling to die:

Jesus escaped crucifixion because he did not want to die, that was not the purpose of his mission, and GOD saved him. According to the Gospels, Jesus was quite unwilling to be crucified, or even stoned:


After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. (John 7:1)

Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. (John 8:59)

Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples. (John 11:54)

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
(Matthew 26:39, Luke 22:42)


Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (Hebrews 5:7)

Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16)


The Bible teaches that false prophets must die:

The Jews and Romans never crucified Jesus, or else the mission would have failed, the Jews expected the Anointed One to be victorious the way David (the anointed) prevailed over his enemies; he was also betrayed by Ahithophel. Jesus could not have been the Messiah if he were executed. The Bible explicitly teaches that false prophets must die:


And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. (Deuteronomy 13:5)


But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. (Deuteronomy 18:19)


The crucified Prophet is under God’s curse:


His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance. (Deuteronomy 21:23)


Amazingly, the Bible says that Jesus was crucified on a tree:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (Acts 5:30)


And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: (Acts 10:39)

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: (Galatians 3:13)


The scholar Arthur Weigall describes that Osiris was crucified upon a tree, like many previous ‘man-gods’, the cross was not unique, its pagan symbol. The Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus was crucified upon a ‘stake’. But the ‘tree story’ was indeed plagiarized from the story of Osiris and Isis.


"The Popular and widespread religion of Osiris and Isis exercised considerable influence upon early Christianity, for these two great Egyptian deities, whose worship had passed into Europe were revered in Rome and in several other centres, where Christian communities were growing up. Osiris and Isis, so runs the legend, were brother and sister and also husband and wife; but Osiris was murdered, his coffined body being thrown into the Nile, and shortly afterwards the widowed and exiled Isis gave birth to a son, Horus. The coffin, meanwhile, was washed up on the Syrian coast, and became miraculously lodged in the trunk of a tree, so that Osiris, like other sacrificed gods, could be described as having been.' slain and hanged on a tree.'


The Destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 70 CE, and copies of the Torah were destroyed by the Romans. The Diocletian persecution (303 CE) is witness to the historical destruction of Jewish and Christian books. The Pauline Church destroyed the Scriptures of the Nazarenes which contained the original sayings of Jesus, because it contradicted the pagan trinity.


The Roman occupation was never destroyed, the Jews dispersed into various parts of the world after the ‘foretold’ Messiah failed to deliver them. The Nazarenes and Ebionites were disappointed when Jesus did not return; the Gospels record Jesus saying he would ‘return’ during the lifetime of his people (Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, Revelations 22:7, 12, 20) which sadly never happened. The prophecy failed.



God will save the Messiah


Now I know that the LORD saves his anointed;
he answers him from his holy heaven
with the saving power of his right hand. (Psalms 20:6)


Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (Hebrews 5:7)


Psalms 20:6 refers to Jesus; God did save him with the power of His right hand. Jesus emphasized the power of God, His right hand. A purely figurative expression:

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Matthew 26:64)



Jesus Christ has angels to protect him:


Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. (Matthew 4:11)


The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Matthew 13:41)


And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Luke 22:43)



The Christ is Protected by God

"Do not touch my anointed ones;
do my prophets no harm." (1Chronicles 16:22)

O LORD God, do not reject your anointed one.
Remember the great love promised to David your servant. (2Chronicles 6:42)


Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.

The LORD [is] their strength, and he [is] the saving strength of his anointed.

(Psalms 28:



The Greek word ‘Christ’ means the ‘anointed one’. Jesus was anointed, so therefore he was saved from crucifixion.

The Gospels describe how Jesus wept immensely to be saved from death. The crucifixion was the most humiliating form of execution, used for political reasons, and not religious purposes.




Many early Christian sects did not believe Jesus was crucified. Jesus laughed with joy:

Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all. Those, then, who know these things have been freed from the principalities who formed the world; so that it is not incumbent on us to confess him who was crucified, but him who came in the form of a man, and was thought to be crucified, and was called Jesus, and was sent by the Father.

(The Church Father Iranaeus, Against Heresies, Chapter XXIV.-Doctrines of Saturninus and Basilides)




That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: (Al-Quran 4:157)


The 1945 discovery of Gnostic texts at Nag Hammadi, Egypt unearthed a book called The Second Treatise of the Great Seth, where Jesus states:


I did not succumb to them as they had planned. But I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me. And I did not die in reality but in appearance, lest I be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I suffered according to their sight and thought, in order that they may never find any word to speak about them. For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. For their Ennoias did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance. (The Treatise of the Great Seth)



Contradictory Accounts of Jesus’ Alleged crucifixion



The four Gospels contradict each other; the story of the crucifixion is told differently in each Gospel. Logically, all four Gospels cannot be simultaneously true. Hence, the crucifixion is not historical, or the sources would be rather consistent if they were reliable. The attempt to “harmonize” the accounts is impossible because the contradictions are so vast.


“Actually, the fact that we have four gospels lies at the very heart of our problem. Because we read particular parables or sayings or stories in several different versions, we can't miss the disagreements between them"


“The Christians have dozens of different versions, rather than one universally agreed view, regarding the crucifixion of the Messiah. This in itself is an eloquent testimony that the Christians were doubtful about the actual event. Some of them held the view that the one who was crucified was someone other than Jesus and that Jesus himself in fact remained standing somewhere nearby, laughing at their folly… Had the truth been fully known and well-established so many divergent views could not have gained currency”.


The Bible rejects the ‘atonement’

To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. (Isaiah 1:11)


Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (Psalms 40:6)

For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give [it]: thou delightest not in burnt offering. (Psalms 51:16)]


"I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood, and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you, even as it came to your fathers in the wilderness, who lusted for flesh, and they ate to their content, and were filled with rottenness, and the plague consumed them." (Jesus Christ, The Gospel of the Nazorenes)


And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. (Mark 12:30-33)


To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3)

But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13)

Jesus will have mercy and not sacrifice; he was not crucified for the ‘sins of the world’, but rather he was sent to put sinners to repentance. He came to preach the discarded teachings of the Torah (Matthew 5:17-20) he came to preach the Gospel (Matthew 4:23) he was Prophet and Messenger (Matthew 21:11) not the pagan ‘crucified Christ’ the Church upholds today.


Jesus made it clear that salvation is not attained through blood sacrifice, but simply keeping the commandments of God.




16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." (Matthew 19:16-17)

Jesus never said “salvation comes through my blood”, he simply told the man that salvation comes through obeying the commandments. The crucifixion is not even mentioned or alluded to. The Old Testament says:



The gospels are all priestly forgeries over a century after their pretended dates."

(Joseph Wheless, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Acharya S)



The books [canonical gospels] are not heard of till 150 A.D., that is, till Jesus had been dead nearly a hundred and twenty years. No writer before 150 A.D. makes the slightest mention of them." (Bronson, C. Keeler, A Short History of the Bible)



"The Four Gospels were unknown to the early Christian Fathers. Justin Martyr, the most eminent of the early Fathers, wrote about the middle of the second century. His writings in proof of the divinity of Christ demanded the use of these Gospels had they existed in his time. He makes more than 300 quotations from the books of the Old Testament, and nearly one hundred from the Apocryphal books of the New Testament; but none from the four Gospels. (The Book Your Church Doesn’t Want You to Read, Tim C. Leedom)



“Not a single Gospel was written down at the time of Jesus, they were all written long after his earthly mission had come to an end” (Maurice Bucaille, The Bible, the Quran, and Science p. 127),



“Each of the four canonical Gospels is religious proclamation in the form of a largely fictional narrative. Christians have never been reluctant to write fiction about Jesus, and we must remember that our four canonical Gospels are only the cream of a large and varied literature” (Rendal Helms, Gospel Fictions p.11)

@Witness

Its interesting that despite my attempts to provide a simple and thorough exegesis of your questions, you still come back ranting like one with no hope, claiming and pretending as if i have not even answered your questions . Despite that even a blind person can clearly see that i have already answered your questions in a clinical manner as much as possible.

Have you really done than that? I havent seen where you did but you rather prefer dancing around just like one of your prophets danced naked before the Lord.

Let me now get down to your post where you claimed to have provided rebuttal.

Any way try and pay attention this time as i try to answer you again, despite you attempts at the method of question overloading

You are very fond of that and you may have a look at your last post, trying to deflect the thread and I have told you on several occassions to create a separate thread rather than trying to divert topic.

1. Jesus Christ's birth death and ressurection is a fuffillment of prophecy (check the verses i have already provided and stop pretending as if you didn't see them).

Brother, must you lie to cover your falsehood/ Show me where it was prophesised that he would be crucified and resurrected after 3 days?

2. The Holy Spirit did not impreginate Mary, stop talking like a man with no understanding (actually you are, hence why you are being lectured).

Let me mellow down because it seems you prefer being dubious to intelligent discussion. You claimed that Holy Spirit did not impregnate Mary but we will see that in your next quote.Mind you, you are up to the task of lecturing me but can lecture you on my religion, your religion as well as other religion. You said that you learnt about The Great Religion here and I am very sure you were not born or probsbly in your adolescent when I was a christian and reading the bible and still reading now.



The bible clearly did not say that the Holy Spirit impreginated Mary, stop talking like your Mad Prophet!


You know. I would have stopped answering you as a result of your post above but learnt that your ignorance has really turned you senseless and getting to the level of being insane. Must you say a prophet is mad just because you don't believe in him. You are digging your grave yourself and I can bet it woth you that you would be accoutable for your deeds and action and regret all your sayings. It seems won ko gbe e ra ina when you were born hence the way the use your stinking hand and type rubbish.

Read those verses again and stop ranting,

Let us read from the senseless one

3. Interesting to see that you  are claiming the Holy Spirit impreginated Mary, yet you and Mohammmed tend to claim that there is no Holy Spirit (actually babs which one are you trying to claim, cus it seems you talking from both sides of the mouth here).

Can you please show me where I claimed that there is no Holy spirit?

one time you claim there is no holy spirit , another time you claim that the holy spirit impreginated Mary, which one exactly is it that you stand for cus it seems you are just equivocating.

Can you show me or you remain silent for ever? We will get to where Holy Spirit impregnated Mary soon.



4. The verses which you have decided to

ignore (for obvious deceitful) reasons clearly shows (even to a blind man that Jesus Christ came to die for the sins of his people , i.e. mankind), that you fail to see those verses must really be a miracle of optical physics.

I have told you on several ocassion that you don't just post ignorantly but back up your post with facts. Can you still show me where JESUS CLAIMED THAT HE CAME TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS AND BE CRUCIFIED?

Lest I forget, can you present the verse on the good news given to Mary by the Holy Spirit and let Nairalanders be the judge. I would have served you the verse but want you, a christian to serve me and when you do that, I will give you Quranic verses on that and you will tell me which of the two you would choose and be more comfortable with.

1. Now you behaving like a baby, through your childish and obstinate utterances,

You are not the first uncouth christian I would be dealing with that prefer being abusive when they have nothing reasonable to offer and I have been handling your folks veyr well. So your own case is not an exception. You are still welcome to my world.

2. Anyway the bible verses you are requested are these (although i believe that i have already provided them). Notice that even the Angel (not even an ordinary man) himself was the one who said that Jesus Christ was going to be called Emmanuel.

Ok let me continue reading before making any comment.

Old Testament Prophecy
--------------------

Isa 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.[/[/b]quote]


[b]Do you read your bible at all or you listen to your pastors? Read that chapter from the beginning and you would see that it was not referring to Jesus at all. When you finish deceiving yourself, read below and be enlightened:

The gospels of Matthew (1:18-25) and Luke (1:26-35) both claim that Jesus was born of a virgin, but only Matthew (1:23) appeals to the Hebrew scriptures as an explanation for why this should be the case. The verse appealed to is Isaiah 7:14, which reads: [b]"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel."

There are a number of difficulties with this passage. As many have noted, the Hebrew word translated as "virgin" in this verse is "almah," which is more accurately translated simply as "young woman." The Hebrew word "bethulah" means "virgin."

In the book of Isaiah, "bethulah" appears four times (23:12, 37:22, 47:1, 62:5), so its author was aware of the word.

In the New American Standard translation of the Bible, all other appearances of "almah" are translated simply as "girl," "maid," or "maiden" (viz: Genesis 24:43, Exodus 2:8, Psalms 68:25, Proverbs 30:19, Song of Solomon 1:3, 6:. Thus the claimed fulfillment adds a biologically impossible condition which is not even present in the original prophecy


Another problem is that nowhere in the New Testament does Mary, Jesus' mother, refer to him as "Immanuel." There is no evidence that one of the conditions of the prophecy was ever fulfilled.


Looking at the entire seventh chapter of Isaiah, it becomes clear that the child in question is to be born as a sign to Ahaz, King of Judah, that he will not be defeated in battle by Rezin, King of Syria, and Pekah, son of the King of Israel. Jesus' birth was some seven centuries late to be such a sign.

In Isaiah 8:3-4, a prophetess gives birth to a son--Maher-shalal-hash-baz--who is clearly described as the fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14.[/b]

[quote]New Testament Fufillment of Prophecy
---------------------------------

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Do you read to understand? The verse said that he would be called Emmanuel and can you please show me where he was called EMMANUEL?

at least 500 people(witnesses) saw Jesus Christ after He had resurrected and before he ascended to Heaven.

The resurrection and crucifixion story is a hoax.

The most striking feature of the early documents is that they do not set Jesus’ life in a specific historical situation. There is no Galilean ministry, and there are no parables, no miracles, no Passion in Jerusalem, no indication of time, place of attendant circumstances at all. The words Calvary, Bethlehem, Nazareth, and Galilee never appear in the early epistles, and the word Jerusalem is never used there in connection with Jesus .


The gospels included in the New Testament are widely agreed to have been written between A.D. 70 and 100. In these four gospels, it is claimed that Jesus taught in Galilee in the opening decades of the first century, worked miracles there, or what at any rate were taken for miracles, and died in Jerusalem at the behest of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, yet none of these things are claimed, or even mentioned, in the earliest surviving Christian documents.

[b]Here is what scholar Mack Burton says:

There is no reference to Jesus’ death as a crucifixion in the pre-Markan Jesus material (Who Wrote the New Testament? p. 87)

The Gospel of Mark was written very late, the crucifixion story did not exist before its composition.


In what way was he like Jonah having given the sign of Jonah as his only sign?[/b]

So since you have pretended not to have seen the bible verses which i used to support this claim, below are the same bible verses again:


1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5  And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7  After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8  And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Read my above post again and when you are through:

[b]Please why is the story of 500 witnesses not recorded in any of the Gospels?
Why was it recorded by Paul that never witnessed Jesus' ministry?[/b]

1. He prayed to God the Father

You claimed that Jesus is God, so how come he prayed to himself?

2. He shout "my God , why has thous forsaken me", as a fufillment of old testament, which says and I quote:

Psa 22:1  <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Do you really post for knowledge or to cause mischief? The above post is self explanatory just like the one you tried linking to Jesus above. Read the verse again and you may start from the beginning and you would see that Jesus was never crucified.

Why would Jesus, supposed to be God incarnate, speak of being forsaken by himself at all, let alone at the culmination of his plan for human salvation?

I don't recognise all this nonsense that you are quoting as being reliable and infallible sources, simply because they fallible and partial, antagonistic sources.

Can I have where trinity was preached by OT prophets and also by Jesus and where Jesus said that  I AM GOD.

In fact its really unintelligent of you not to realise that you are using the fallible statements of ordinary men who clearly do not believe or understand the bible as your evidence, how pathetic,

Do you have trinity in your bible and if you do, let me have them and we examine if you are really truthful or not?

1. Yes Jesus Christ called Himself God.

Can I have where he said that I AM GOD?

2. Yes there are bible verses.

Can you serve me the verses?

3. Yes I have already given you those bible verses

If you think you have, you may re-serve me.

1. I accept the KJV (King James Version) as the only infallible english version of the bible (most , if not all of the other versions, i believe have been tampered with by the Catholic Church, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and others, so that fact that you are quoting them to support the lies of Mohammmed only goes to show that the Kingdom of the Devil is using its own evidences for its own purposes)

2. Hence that is why its is easy for a True christian to know that Jehova witnesses are not christians.

Dont try to cover up what has been exposed. It is not only Jehovah witness bible that is not in agreement with KJV  but other protestant's bible too. We have some verses in KJV  version but missing in some other versions, so how come? The verses in question are not in the original manuscript, so where did KJV  got its own from?

How come the KJV  that came after some of the versions is the most authentic ad are you saying other versions like Good news bible, RSV, NIT, American Bible, Holy Bible  etc are not reliable?

3. Hence that is why its is easy for a True christian to know that Catholics are not Christians.

I have not even referred to catholics but your protestant bible. What happens to the verses missing in other versions but present in KJV and those verses are not in original manuscript?

How come KJV is the most reliable when others came before it and do we discard others for not being reliable?

4. Hence that is why its is easy for a True Christian does not recognise the Bible "interpretations" which you have just quoted.

Who says a true christian does not recognise that? Are you saying that other versions are not reliable considering the fact that some came before KJV and some verses present in KJV but missing in other versions cannot be found in the original manuscript?[/quote]

@Witness

there is no need to call me senseless (aba must you show the son of whom you are , The Devil ) , just kindly go back and see my response


By the way its good that World sees you people for who you really are in that FITNA film (which uses real video, q'uranic verses, is.la.mic scholars to explain the devilish is.lamic behavior)

I wonder, babs787, is it save for me to disclose my address and location to you, can i trust you enough with my life despite the antecedents of slaughtering people in the name of Alllah , who has been drinking blood since these days and his yet to be satisfied with you ablutions, sakat, saarah, five times prayer, head banging on the floor , moronic stoning of the devil (who stood still since all these while for you to stone him)

You have my emaill address in my profile and if you are ready, let me know when you are ready and I will link you up with one or two people and dialogue on religion.

It is ok by me if you want it in Ibadan and if in any other place, I can arrange for your fare and you may come with one or two of your pastors and dialogue.

If it is a place I am and you wants to come, I can equally arrange for the fare and we have a discussion.

So the ball is in your court and I am sure Allah will touch your heart just like he did to me while in the darkness (christianity).

@Bin Laden

Salam and may Allah reward you for the Dawah but I felt that you should have posted it one at a time and wait for ther response rather than giving them everything together which may serve as excuse for not answering the questions.

Most of the questions asked therein have been asked and treated by myself especially those on who Jesus really is, his death, dying for someone, being God etc.

He thought that I would not be able to respond to his garbage.

@Witness

Since you prefer posting senselessly same thing in rejoinders. I have decided to provide the link where I replied your post below.

babs787, the following is my response to one of your previous posts (prior to my last banning)


Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
@Sysuser

If you have not been deceiving yourself, you would have known that the one in the bible is different from the one you preach. He made statements showing that he wasnt sent to you, never died for you, not crucified and wasnt God.



First and foremost, Mohammmed is a liar who created his own version of Jesus that suits his needs and lies,

Secondly in answer to your question:

1. He was sent to die for the sins of mankind

Angel sent by God the Father Himself clearly states that Jesus Christ was going to save his people (all of mankind) from their sins,


Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.



2. He died for me on the cross and rose again on the third and was seen by more than 500 witness at one point in time

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.


3. Yes he is God the Son


Jesus Christ himself says He is the Son of God

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.


Even the ArchAngel Gabriel himself carried a message from God confirming the fact that Jesus Christ was the Son of God

Luk 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luk 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Even Lucifer himself (Satan, Devil or whatever name) recognises the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Even Jesus Christ himself makes it clear that He was God and that He is existing even before Abraham was created
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Even God the Father Himself publicly revealed during the baptism of Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ was his beloved Son
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Even a Roman centurion recognised the fact that Jesus Christ was the Son of God

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


Even demons recognise the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Mar 3:7 But Jesus withdrew himself with his disciples to the sea: and a great multitude from Galilee followed him, and from Judaea,
Mar 3:8 And from Jerusalem, and from Idumaea, and from beyond Jordan; and they about Tyre and Sidon, a great multitude, when they had heard what great things he did, came unto him.
Mar 3:9 And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.
Mar 3:10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.
Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

Luk 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

John the Baptist bore record that Jesus Christ was the son of God (God the Son)

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Even Moses, Elijah, Peter, John and James bore withness to the fact that God the Father said that Jesus Christ was his only beloved Son

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.




So you see in case you are too blind to see or acknowledge, Jesus Christ of the bible is not the same Jesus that Mohammmed talks about in the q'uran, Jesus Christ of the bible has nothing in common with Mohammmed/Alllah, Jesus Christ of the bible has nothing to do with Mohammmed,

Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Life,

Mohammmed is simply pure darkness and evil,

Darkness has no fellowship with light

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?



Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM

Telling story that is making no sense. Son of God in English literally mean servant of God in Hebrew


hmm, babs787, babs787, when will you stop all this your illogical , childish and desperate measures to cover up the inadequacies of i.s.l.a.m, alllah, mohammmed and co. Please can you kindly show me (via your mastery of hebrew, yoruba, arabic, english and God knows whatelse, how you can to arrive at the conclusion that Son of God in english means servant of God in Hebrew



Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
You are fraudster. Telling me to keep quiet just because I exposed the truth on who jesus really is.

I have been serving you verses from your own very bible and calling those verses lie will further expose christianity and your fraud.

Ignorance is really a disease.



Keep blowing hot air, maybe when you are empty would would stop, listen and learn to what God has now given you the opportunity of learning and understanding.




Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
Was Jesus' name 'yahushuwa or yeshua and did they mean same thing?

What is Jesus' name in the language he spoke?


How does that proof that Mohammmed is not a liar, peadophile,murderer, adulterer,incester, dishonourable man, hallucinator, demon possessed man, sex maniac, etc

You are just trying to dodge and diver the attention to something else , Jesus Name in the language he spoke does not concern you , and neither does it concern Mohammmed who was not born during his time and who is not an Isrealite,

Abeg babs stop all these , awawi, , you are just looking for silly excuses to get out of jail!


Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
Can I have the verse please?


Yes you can have the verse where Jesus Christ warned us of false prophets that are in the desert, (remember Mohammmed dwelled in the desert region of Arabia). The related verses are shown below:


Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.




Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
Where did he say that/?You couldnt even provide where he said that you should accept him as your personal savior and Lord


Yes Jesus Christ himself said that he is our Saviour and the only way through which any man can be saved and that he is also the Son of God


Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.




Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
Is Jesus a christian?


I have already answered that , please go through the thread, and stop repeating questions and wasting everybody's time and energy


Quote from: babs787 on April 01, 2008, 08:41 PM
I don't believe in stupid stories that lack proof. Support your post with facts and Babs will surely dance along with you.


first and foremost , i don't need you to dance, please stop refering to yourself in third person perspective, by the way since you are so particular about proofs then maybe you can supply proofs for the following (please don't just copy and paste a long meaningless story about how Alllah told you not to provide proof for Alllah):

1. How sperm comes from the Spinal cord
2. How Mohammmed split the moon
3. How the sun sets in the murky spring
4. Where the injil is located
5. Why mohammmed is not a peadophile by sleeping with a 9 year old girl
6. How you can marry more than one wife and still love them equally in all things

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-119423.128.html

Happy reading.

@Witness

Babs the following is the response to your previous post that i was responding to until , i was banned all of a sudden!

Ok. welcome back

First and foremost, Mohammmed is a liar who created his own version of Jesus that suits his needs and lies,

You are a dunce for making the above statement. Calling my prophet a liar and you stupidly couldnt provide anything to back your lie.

If you have not been brainwashed, you would have read that I  for one have been serving you verses from your bible that even went against Jesus you have been preaching.

Secondly in answer to your question:

Ok.

1. He was sent to die for the sins of mankind

Who sent him and did he send himself? I thought you have been saying that Jesus is God?

Where DID HE SAY THAT HE COME TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS?

Angel sent by God the Father Himself clearly states that Jesus Christ was going to save his people (all of mankind) from their sins,

Can I have the verses please? Are Jesus people ( Israelite) the same as the world? Dont we have Gentiles too?

Mat 1:19  Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

One thing I have learnt about christians is that they never read to understand. The above verses made clear statement that it was Holy GHOST that impregnated Mary and not GOD? What sort of rubbish is this? Why not grab my book and read the about Jesus and how the angel delivered the good news to Mary. (The Great Book chapter 3)

Mat 1:21  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

If you have not been reading your bible in an upside position, you would have understand that, Jesus people are the Israelite which he was sent to? He made clear statements about his being sent to them. How come you are Jesus people when you are not a Jew and was he even a christian?

Mat 1:22  Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Na wa o. Sysuser, why do you like embarrassing yourself? Do we have it anywhere in the bible where Jesus was called Emmanuel?

2. He died for me on the cross and rose again on the third and was seen by more than 500 witness at one point in time

I need the verses on where more than 500 people witnessed his crucifixion please.
In what way was he like Jonah having given the sign of Jonah as his only sign?

1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

He made you know that he didnt witness it but received from those that claimed to be eye witness.

1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

According to which scriptures? Are you referring to the contradicting account of those that claimed to be eye witnesses that wrote the four gospels?

1Co 15:5  And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

Which twelve please?

1Co 15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

I thought you claimed in your post above that about 500 witnessed his crucifixion, did the above verse talk about crucifixion?

1Co 15:7  After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8  And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Explanation please

3. Yes he is God the Son

Who did he pray to?
who he did he shout to that, 'my God, why has thou forsaken me?
why did he say that God is greater than him?


In "The Dictionary of the Bible," John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899  bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), we read:

"THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF.


This polytheistic (believing in more than one god) Trinitarianism was intertwined with Greek religion and philosophy and slowly worked its way into Christian thought and creeds some 300 years after Jesus. The idea of "God the Son" is Babylonian paganism and mythology that was grafted into Christianity. Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.


The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity. 

Jesus Christ himself says He is the Son of God

Joh 9:35  Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh 9:36  He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37  And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

Read more about son of God and see that it was started by pagan and accepted into christianity.


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God)


Is there anywhere in the bible Jesus called himself GOD?

Even the ArchAngel Gabriel himself carried a message from God confirming the fact that Jesus Christ was the Son of God

Luk 1:26  And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luk 1:27  To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Luk 1:28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luk 1:29  And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Luk 1:30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Even Lucifer himself (Satan, Devil or whatever name) recognises the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
Mat 4:3  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Are you not ashamed of yourself to have given me the gospel of Luke that claimed to have received from people and sent to THEOPHILUS?

READ THROUGH THE TWO VERSIONS and see  difference between them?

King James Version
Acts 3:25 - Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


New King James Version

Acts 3:25 - You are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.

Which one is correct, the son or servant?

The word used therein is 'pais'.
The New King James translators chose servant while KJV chose son.

The New World Translation, created by the Jehovah's Witnesses who deny the deity of Jesus, translated this word 'servant' also. So do the NIV, ASV, NASB and other modern Bible translations.

So which do we accept?

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Go to this link and read the rebuttal.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.32.html

Even Jesus Christ himself makes it clear that He was God and that He is existing even before Abraham was created
Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

If he was God, why can't he state it in the gospels. Show me where he said that he was God and please why didnt he say before Adam or Noah, he was?

Even God the Father Himself publicly revealed during the baptism of Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ was his beloved Son
Mar 1:11  And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

What is the proof that it was God that spoke?. I said I would unveil that as we get along with our discussion with Olaadegbu. Didnt Jesus claim that you have not heard his voice nor seen his shape at anytime?

2Pe 1:17  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Third party that couldnt be held responsible as the original author and witness of the incident. Was Peter there?

Even a Roman centurion recognised the fact that Jesus Christ was the Son of God
Mat 27:54  Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Please in what way was he the son of God? Is it as a result of begging God not to die or crying to God to have forsaken him?

Even demons recognise the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
Mar 3:7  But Jesus withdrew himself with his disciples to the sea: and a great multitude from Galilee followed him, and from Judaea,
Mar 3:8  And from Jerusalem, and from Idumaea, and from beyond Jordan; and they about Tyre and Sidon, a great multitude, when they had heard what great things he did, came unto him.
Mar 3:9  And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.
Mar 3:10  For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.
Mar 3:11  And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Luk 4:41  And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 8:27  And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

Luk 8:28  When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

John the Baptist bore record that Jesus Christ was the son of God (God the Son)

Joh 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:30  This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:31  And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Joh 1:32  And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34  And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Even Moses, Elijah, Peter, John and James bore withness to the fact that God the Father said that Jesus Christ was his only beloved Son

Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4  Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5  While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6  And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7  And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Brother I am very sorry for you to have wasted so much of your time over nothing. You listed account of those that couldnt be held responsible and not a single place where JESUS SAID THAT I AM GOD. THERE IS A THREAD GOING ON ON TRINITY, YOU MAY GO THERE AND CONTRIBUTE.

So you see in case you are too blind to see or acknowledge, Jesus Christ of the bible is not the same Jesus that Mohammmed talks about in the q'uran, Jesus Christ of the bible has nothing in common with Mohammmed/Alllah, Jesus Christ of the bible has nothing to do with Mohammmed,

You are the real dunce to have been preaching a Jesus different from that in your bible.

Read below please:

Matthew 12:18: "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen."
Acts 3:13(RSV): "The God of Abraham, and of Isaac,,  hath glorified his servant Jesus."
Acts 4:27(RSV): "For of a truth against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, "

Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Life,

Mohammmed is simply pure darkness and evil,

Darkness has no fellowship with light

2Co 6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Dont post without fact mumu. Give me verses and I wil give you rebuttal from your bible as well.

hmm, babs787, babs787, when will you stop all this your illogical , childish and desperate measures to cover up the inadequacies of i.s.l.a.m, alllah, mohammmed and co. Please can you kindly show me (via your mastery of hebrew, yoruba, arabic, english and God knows whatelse, how you can to arrive at the conclusion that Son of God in english means servant of God in Hebrew

Read this article
http://www.chick.com/information/bibleversions/articles/saviororservant.asp.

and

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/a great one/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.15.html:

and

http://www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/christ/bible_son.htm


Some verses showing that God is greater than Jesus:


I do nothing of myself  (From the NIV Bible, John 8:28)"

"My Father (GOD) is greater than I (From the NIV Bible, John 14:28)"

"Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit  (From the NIV Bible, Luke 23:46)"

"And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.  (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 24:36)"

How does that proof that Mohammmed is not a liar, peadophile,murderer, adulterer,incester, dishonourable man, hallucinator, demon possessed man, sex maniac, etc

You are just trying to dodge and diver the attention to something else , Jesus Name in the language he spoke does not concern you , and neither does it concern Mohammmed who was not born during his time and who is not an Isrealite,

Abeg babs stop all these , awawi, , you are just looking for silly excuses to get out of jail!

Mumu, why not answer my question if you are up to the task:

Was Jesus' name 'yahushuwa or yeshua and did they mean same thing?

What is Jesus' name in the language he spoke?

Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Did The Great Prophet ever claim to have come from Jesus or your pastors in the like of chris, Bonnke that have been using his name to defraud you.

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Have you ponder on your so called pators and relate the sayings to them?

Yes Jesus Christ himself said that he is our Saviour and the only way through which any man can be saved and that he is also the Son of God


Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Still no where HE SAID THAT YOU SHOULD ACCEPT HIM AS YOUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOUR, MUMU.

I have already answered that , please go through the thread, and stop repeating questions and wasting everybody's time and energy

I have not seen where you answered that. Perhaps, you may resend them if you have done that.

first and foremost , i don't need you to dance, please stop refering to yourself in third person perspective, by the way since you are so particular about proofs then maybe you can supply proofs for the following (please don't just copy and paste a long meaningless story about how Alllah told you not to provide proof for Alllah):

1. How sperm comes from the Spinal cord
2. How Mohammmed split the moon
3. How the sun sets in the murky spring
4. Where the injil is located
5. Why mohammmed is not a peadophile by sleeping with a 9 year old girl
6. How you can marry more than one wife and still love them equally in all things

In all honesty, you prefer to dance around, ignoring issues/questions put across to you and  further expose your paganism.

I know that you learnt about The Great Religion but can and will still educate you and bring you out from your darkness to light if you are ready to.

With regards to the issue of my prophet, you can create separate thread for that and back your allegations with verses from my book, hadith and we go digigng into it.


You go here to learn more about TRINITY and contribute as well.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.32.html

@Olaadegbu


Did you read my post up?

@May Kelly


Let me leave for now and attend to Witness (Sysuser) that appears stubborn, and post without backing it with facts.

Anyway sha, i did not hate i.slam or mus.lim person, but I did not agree and will never agree with the fact that "JESUS DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS, AND THAT HE IS NOT THE SAVIOUR OF MANKIND NEITHER HE IS A SLAVE. I think that is just our differences.

But will you still believe that he didnt die o the cross, not the saviour if given verses from your bible?

But we don't have to argue about this. Let us leave our differences, no matter how we strive and argue "WE ARE ONE IN GOD BUT DIFFERENT IN CHRIST JESUS. "Do you believe

One love baby

Over to Witness now

@Sysuser

babs787, how you dey!, (God would not let you do without receiving Christ in Jesus Name amen)

God will allow die as a muslim. I was a christian and even read the bible maybe before you were born.

So nothing for you if die as a pagan christian

@Sysuser

Its good to see that you subconsciously admit that you have a different "Jesus", Who is not the same as the Jesus Christ of the bible.

If you have not been deceiving yourself, you would have known that the one in the bible is different from the one you preach. He made statements showing that he wasnt sent to you, never died for you, not crucified and wasnt God.

Even Mormons invented their own version of Jesus contrary to what is in the bible. So as far as I am concerned you or Mohammmed or anyother person can decide to invent their own version of "Jesus" in other to suit their lifestyle and lies, its still does not mean the Jesus Chris of the Bible is not true, neither does it mean that He did not exist , neither does it mean that Jesus Christ fufilled each and every prophecy of "Biblical Prophets".

Telling story that is making no sense. Son of God in English literally mean servant of God in Hebrew

Hence you (babs) need to keep quiet and keep your peace and deal with your insecurity about the q'uranic Jesus simply because.At least i.s.l.a.m needs to be self contained, stand on its own and stop trying to gain "credibility by association".

You are fraudster. Telling me to keep quiet just because I exposed the truth on who jesus really is.

I have been serving you verses from your own very bible and calling those verses lie will further expose christianity and your fraud.

Alllah is not God
God is not Alllah

Ignorance is really a disease.

Jesus Christ is not Issa
Issa is mohammmed's stupid mental creation

Was Jesus' name 'yahushuwa or yeshua and did they mean same thing?

What is Jesus' name in the language he spoke?

1. Jesus Christ of the bible is the saviour

Where did he say that/?You couldnt even provide where he said that you should accept him as your personal savior and Lord

2. Jesus Christ of the bible warned us against false prophets in the desert (Mohammmed)

Can I have the verse please?

3. Jesus Christ of the bible is God the Son

Is Jesus a christian?

4. Jesus Christ of the bible has nothing to do with Alllah

5. Mohammmed is a false prophet, peadophile,liar,murderer, rapist, adulterer,sex maniac, dishonourable man, hallucinator,

6. Alllah is a false god (moon god)


1. Mohammmed is a False Prophet according to the Bible and a true prophet of Alllah

Reason: His actions , behaviours , character, statements and spirit is contrary to what is expected of a True Biblical Prophet
                         John the Baptist is the Last Old Testament Styled Biblical Prophet,

2. Mohammmed is a peadophile, dishonourable man and liar

Reason: His decision to have sex with 9 year old Aisha shows that he's a peadophile, and it also shows that he is a liar and dishonourable man, because he did not honour his word which he had given to the Father of Aisha

3. Jesus Christ has nothing to do with Alllah
Reason: Jesus Christ himself said there is Trinity (God the Father , God the Son, God the Holy Spirit) , Alllah says there is no Trinity
                        Jesus Christ himself said He is the Son of God, Alllah says his own version of Jesus is not the Son of God
                        Jesus Christ himself said the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, M.u.s.li.ms claim that Mohammmed is the Comforter
                        Jesus Christ himself said and guarantees that He's the only way for the salvation of any man (Black or White, etc), Alllah cannot even guarantee salvation for anybody, Mohammmed does not know whether he is going to hell or not


SHALL I CONTINUE

I don't believe in stupid stories that lack proof. Support your post with facts and Babs will surely dance along with you.

@May Kelly

Anyway sha, babs787 there is no need for a believer and unbeliver to argue. Your unbeliever becacuse you REJECTED THE ONLY SON OF GOD "JESUS" simply because HE was not born in your home Town; sorry babs787. Do not bother about further discussion about JESUS. "YOU DON'T KNOW JESUS". My sweet JESUS CHRIST is quiet different from the one you know.

I know him more that you do. I practised christianity more than you do and read and still reading the bible.

Do we have it apart from the gospel of John that says that Jesus is the only son of God?

Jesus was a muslim, a slave and messenger of God. I have given you verses from your bible showing who Jesus really is. The Jesus you are even preaching is very different from the one in your bible.

@Olaadegbu

My answer to your questions are in the affirmative. For you to understand and comprehend the meaning of the Triune God you have to believe that He is and He rewards those that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

There is no OT prophet that preached trinity and it has no biblical backing. The catholic that even started it are saying it is a misery that couldnt be defined.

Mathematically, 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 but spiritually or in the christian world:

1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

Gos is God, son is God, Holy sprit is God yet they are not equal

Therefore, put aside all your preconceptions, presuppositions, world-views, philosophies and ideologies and go to Him with and open mind and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. He is your creator and ruler of the universe, as He sees the sincerity in your intention He will surely show up. John 14:21

I already have him (Jesus) as the slave and messenfer of God sent to the children of Israel. Can you still give me the full quote of John 14 v 21 and we explain that verse?

If your Jesus is God, who did he pray to when he learnt that they wanted to kill him?

Who did he tell that, 'my God, why has thou forsaken me?

If Jesus is God, spirit is God etc, why does blasphemy against son of man has forgiveness but that of holy has none?

If Jesus is really God, why did he say that God is greater than him?

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

You even made me know in the above verse that God is greater than Jesus hence 'this is my beloved son"? Did God call himself son?

Later, we will still confirm if the voice came from God.

Matthew 3:16-17 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19

Baptising them in the name of the father, of the son and holy ghost is quite different from God is God, son is God and holy spirit is God.

To you, does all nations mean all the world?

In "The Dictionary of the Bible," John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899 bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), we read:

"THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF.


This polytheistic (believing in more than one god) Trinitarianism was intertwined with Greek religion and philosophy and slowly worked its way into Christian thought and creeds some 300 years after Jesus. The idea of "God the Son" is Babylonian paganism and mythology that was grafted into Christianity. Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.


The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

The above is in King James Version authorised in 1611 and formed the strongest evidence for the Doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, 'the father, the word and the holy ghost; and these three are one' has been expunged in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other bibles as it was a gloss that had encroached on the Greek test.


I john 5 v 7 and 8 in the New American Standard Bible read as follows; 'and it is the spirit who bears witness because the spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement.


Also in the New World Translation of Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witness, you will find 'for there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement'.

When you provide your rebuttal, I will give you verses from the bible that shows that Jesus is never God and will never be.

Thank you.

@not.seun

Sysuser in disguise

Insert Quote
hmm, was it possible that Olabowale was already probably salivating, with the prospect of adding you "wifeing you",

Now we might never know now that you have De-Hijabed

Why changing your identity?

@Samsonola

Where in the bible was Jesus recorded to have spent most of his time dancing Going by the way christians today spend most of their time singing and dancing in the church,they must have at least gotten this from Jesus Christ. So did Jesus ever sing and dance when worshiping God. We have to note that Jesus prayed to God in The bible and according to the bible,Jesus asked God that why did He forsake him.

Jesus would have danced if he were to be a christian but alas, he wasnt a christian.

@4him & Nwando

Any biblical proof?

The Seven Phases of Prophet Muhammad's Life


Traditional scholarship's divides Prophet Muhammad's life into Makkan and Madinahn phases. This is chronologically valid and represents the two broad aspects of his life before and after the watershed event of the Migration. It is historically important and marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar.

Additionally I believe Muhammad's struggle can be naturally divided into seven phases. Each phase brings forth a different aspect of his personality and highlights a different facet of his mission. Studying the Messenger's mission for its various phases and analyzing its internal dynamics is important as it gives the narrative relevance for today. Since his life is better documented than the lives of other prophets and leaders of major world religions, it is possible to build this analysis on a historical foundation.


The Search for Light in a Period of Darkness: The Seeker of Truth


As his biography (Seera) is recorded we find Prophet Muhammad pondering over societal ills for years. The society he was born in was in a state of moral, religious, economic and social chaos. It is difficult to resist drawing analogies between the seventh century world and the state of the human morality in today's world at the beginning of the new millennium. The nuclear man-woman two-parent family, as a core unit of society has eroded seriously in the West. Brazen sexual exploitation in the media is commonplace and illicit sex condoned and even accepted. Violence at home, against women, children, and violence in the streets, is frightfully routine. Substance abuse is widespread, with United States as the largest consumer of drugs in the world. Alcoholism is rampant, especially among college students, with only feeble attempts being made to address the problem. African- Americans have been liberated as slaves for a century and a half, yet many are still trapped in an unending cycle of poverty and discrimination, which is in a way a form of economic slavery. Because of a system that allows unrestrained growth of wealth without encouraging proper redistribution, economic disparities and injustices continue to grow at an alarming rate.

There are many excellent characteristics in Western societies, especially in the US that include the freedom of thought, speech and assembly, a tolerant attitude toward eccentricities in human nature and an ambition to be a just and compassionate society. These qualities of the ordinary American however are not always reflected in the policy makers and political leaders.

The unraveling of the moral fabric in today's society must weigh heavily on the minds of individuals with insight. They can draw personal solace and inspiration from the Prophet's life. The Arab tribal society of the Seventh century, whose structure was based on greed, debauchery, and violence, was changed in a very short time, by the Prophet, into a society with one of the highest moral standards in history. Compassion, humility, devotion to God and egalitarianism replaced the old well-entrenched tribal attitudes of pride in wealth, family and class and self-centered behavior. Women, for the first time in history, had rights and dignity, and the vulnerable and weak sections of the society were protected. Sexuality was removed from public prurience and became private and wholesome. Wealth was re-circulated so that even the poorest segments of the society were infused with energy and indigence became nearly extinct.


The Warner and Exhorter


During one his meditative trips to a cave near Makkah, Prophet Muhammad receives the revelation. Divine revelation is the reaffirmation of the fact that celestial knowledge is essential in guiding the inherently limited human intellect. The profundity of this realization that he is the recipient of this divine revelation and the enormity of the task ahead overawes him. Initially he shares the message only with his closest family and a few loyal supporters. It is both fascinating and revealing that even the individual who would later be rated as the most influential man in human history had these initial periods of doubt and uncertainty about his mission. It was the reassurance from the Quran and the confidence and support of his wife Khadijah (may Allah be pleased with her), and his close companions which provided him the support he needs-surely a lesson for us lesser mortals!


The Stoic Optimist


The next facet of his life is of bringing about proactive change by inviting people (Dawa) to Islam. With it comes the inevitable hostility of the entrenched powers in the society. Change is always threatening, and the greater the change, the more threatening it is. This would be true of the change against any established system of practices, whether it be economic, social or behavioral. It would also be true for change in personal behavior like wearing immodest clothing, promiscuity, and consumption of intoxicants. Changing attitudes that valued pride in wealth and country or class and color of the skin over all else would also be difficult. Not surprisingly the struggle for change becomes life threatening. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) had to lay his life on the line and on several occasions the nascent Muslim community faced the possibility of total extinction. Fortitude in the face of adversity is the salient feature of this phase. The patience and stoicism Muhammad displays during this phase has been a source of strength to many a Muslim who has found himself beleaguered by apparently hopeless circumstances



The Pluralistic Leader


The Migration, which marks the beginning of the next phase, involves careful planning and meticulous execution. He demonstrates that self-help and reliance on Allah go together and are both essential for success. With his nomination by the community in Madinah to a position of leadership, he shows another facet of his personality: the capacity to create a truly pluralistic society with equity and dignity for all religious and ethnic groups. In a very short period after the Migration to Madinah, Muhammad proves he is capable of uniting various factions and setting exemplary standards of cooperation between them. He makes a seamless switch from being a person under constant persecution to a leader with a large administrative and judicial responsibility. The "Covenant (Constitution) of Madinah" that lays out the rules of living in a pluralistic society is a document that needs to be studied carefully and implemented to the fullest extent in today's inescapably multi-religious and multi-cultural world.


The Courageous Yet Reluctant Warrior


After a brief respite, his mission is consumed by the need to fight wars of survival. These three wars in four years, Badr, Uhad and Ahzab, besides posing a physical threat, must have been extremely distracting and demanding of his time and energy. Yet the work of building the community goes on.

It is important to remember that even though faced with very aggressive proponents the Prophet and his followers never initiated or instigated any wars. Muhammad and the Muslims engaged in these battles with great discipline, avoiding injury to the innocent and using only the minimum force needed. Women, children and non-combatants were not to be harmed. When the enemy stopped fighting, he was to be given immediate sanctuary. Striking a blow in anger, even in battle, was prohibited. He uses innovative strategies in the battles, which include the use of the trench as a defense. During the digging of the trench he is an active participant. He consults frequently (Shura) with his companions and follows the majority opinion (Ijma'), even when it sometimes goes against his own judgment.


The Statesman Par Excellence and Teacher

During the next phase, he shows the capacity to compromise and demonstrates the foresight and wisdom to realize that peace, even at seemingly unfavorable terms, is better than hostility. The "Treaty of Hudaybia" also needs to be studied and emulated by all who negotiate with their opponents. The peace dividend, following this treaty with the Quraysh, is huge and results in an exponential increase in the number of Muslims.

This also allows the building of a model and just society that functions in a coherent manner. Wealth is allowed to be accumulated but has to be circulated fairly into even the tiniest capillaries of the community's economic system. It is an egalitarian society with equity and justice for all, governed by mutual consultation, equality before the law and protection of its most vulnerable members, women, children, orphans, indigents and slaves.

As illustrated by many incidents from this phase of his life, the Prophet proves to be an exemplary statesman. He mediates disputes, defuses potentially explosive situations with ease, allowing the parties to the conflict to walk away as friends and allies. He is unafraid to take risks but is never reckless and compromises for the sake of peace. His emissaries to other nations bring with them a message of cooperation seeking common ground. When he gives a pledge, he always keeps it. If the other party breaks the pledge, he does not flinch from measures that are appropriate to maintain the sanctity of the pledge.



The Compassionate Ruler and Spiritual Leader.


The final phase begins with the conquest of Makkah, which is a demonstration of meticulous planning and the use of overwhelming force to achieve a victory with practically no loss of life on either side of the battle front. The stunning magnanimity and humility shown during victory by Muhammad and his companions is unmatched in history. He is humble in victory, compassionate, and forgiving to even his most intractable opponents.

The final sermon consolidates the social, economic, and moral changes that have been brought about in the society. It is time to prepare for the end.

The anatomy of the mission, its growth and evolution in some ways parallels the various stages of human life itself. These various phases reflect not only the growing sophistication of the message but also the increasing maturity of the audience to whom the message is directed. The audience grows in its understanding of what it would take to bear the burden of passing on the message to posterity. The Prophet's mission in its most fundamental analysis was to interpret and spread the Quranic ideology. This Quran centered spirituality remains the constant theme through all of the phases of his life. The Quran says about him "Indeed there is for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern" (Quran 33:21). His wife Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her) calls him the living embodiment of the Quran. It is this complementary bequest of the Quran and Sunna that is our special blessing.

Over time, many differences based on dogma, politics, personality cults and egos have emerged amongst the followers of Islam. In spite of many heterodox sects, the core messages of Quran, and its realization in the life of the Prophet are alive and potent, and continue to provide spiritual solace, intellectual satisfaction and societal discipline to many making Islam the fastest growing religion in the world.



The Seven Phases of Prophet Muhammad's Life
3/17/2008 - Religious Education - Article Ref: IC0405-2299
By: Javeed Akhter

@joey82

@poster, i even thought urs will b d best friday, am surprised at u saying its d better friday.
To xtians, its good friday, because its d day d work of redemption was accomplished, in that through d death of christ, humanity was reconciled back to God by christ's precious blood.
God also considers it good because it is a day mankind was finally saved, a day God himself had long waited for

If truly Jesus was crucified on friday, how did it measure 3 days and 3 nights for the fact he rose (as put by you) on sunday morning?

How was Jesus like Jonah since he gave the sign of Jonah as his only miraculous sign because Jonah did NOT DIE when he went through that ordeal?

@uchkochi

But man sold himself to the devil via disobedience.since that time man was dead because the breath of God was no more there.The devil was in charge because he now has the right to do anything he likes to man,sickness,death,poverty,shame was sold to man.

I wonder why you claim to be a christian, yet do not read your bible. You are saying Satan is in charge of sickness, death, poverty, shame etc but having forgotten that:


E[b]cclesiastes 3[/b]

A Time for Everything

1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Did Satan made the above statement? or God


The verses below also support what my Creator said in my book that :

The Great Book 2 v 214: Or do you (mankind) think you shall enter the garden (of paradise) without such trials as come to those who passed away before you? They encountered suffering and adversity and were so shaken in spirit that even the messenger (of God) and those of faith who were with him creid , ‘when will come the help of God?. Ah! Verily, the help of God is always near.


The Great Book 2 v 155: (Oh mankind) be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods, lives, and the fruits (of your labour) but (oh The Great Prophet saw), give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere.


From your bible:

Ecclesistates 2 v 18:

18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals.
19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.

God wanted to redeem man but it was only his precious blood that could redeem man,that was when he gave his only begotten son Jesus to share his blood to redeem man from the curse which Adam caused.

You said God used his precious blood to redeem man. Does that mean God is the biological father of Jesus?

Where in the bible God said that he is sending Jesus for sacrifice?

What curse did Adam cause?

Jesus did that and connected man back to the very life of God.But the only way to get this life is to be born again,Your first birth was through your parents the second and new birth is through Christ.All you need to do is to accept Him and you become born again of the SPIRIT OF GOD.
THIS IS YOUR ROOTS, ADAM SOLD US BUT GOD TOOK US BACK THROUGH JESUS CHRISTS DEATH,BURIAL AND RESURRECTION.
uche okochi(OMEGA WORLD NETWORK)
+2348052773865

Was Jesus a christian?
Where did he tell you that you will only gain paradise if you believe that he was SACRIFICED.

Now for you:

Ecclesiates 2 v 14 The wise man has eyes in his head,
while the fool walks in the darkness;

@Nwando
\

bia babs,have you forgotten the answers given eloquently by shahan or so on the same questions.
You need some herbal medicines your memory is fading

My memory is very ok but I think you are not with your senses. Can I have the thread where she did that?



@4him


who did your God cry to in Heaven?
Who forsook your God?

@Sungod & Bawomolo


Those pictures are not that of my Jesus hence my not replying you. My Jesus is neither God nor a son of God. He was not killed nor crucified. He was a messenger and slave sent only to the children of Israel and never died for anybody.

So if you are for discussion on the above Jesus, then the door is wide opened.