₦airaland Forum

Reprobate:
lol, I don't have a gen,he gen noise drive me nuts ...…….. and don't have the energy to go scouting to hire.
guess I wasn't so clear, I am not offgrid. phcn is my primary charging source, and we average between 10 to 16hrs daily, in cycles of 3, 4 or 6hrs.we usually have phcn from for 6hrs 9pm t0 6am, so that is what is giving me the impetus to do what am doing,
anyway, the bank tried, being a cloudy day, after about 3hrs, batt voltage hit 48.8v, I promptly turned off the ac and switched to fans, and observed batt voltage gradually creep up and settle at 50v!......and then 49.2v after 3hrs of powering abt 450w load

With all due respect, 6 hrs is not enough to charge that your battery bank given the discharge level and number of batteries involved the biggest issue with batteries are absorption they must have proper absorption charge which can take a very long time up to 3 hours depending on the level of discharge and na naija we dey unless you live in a gated estate with standby gen. The grid can never be relied on even where grid power is generally good.. You can't count on them knock on wood. This means you do not have a good to reliable source of charge that you can always count on and that would ensure you battery gets its proper daily circle of charge bulk absorption float. The battery am using is the first battery I started offgrid solar with going 3 years now. Its not even a premium brand rather a tubular battery, 2 of them and I don't even have grid connection.. Yet it powers the house 24 7 and yet has never been used up to 50% dod. Average amp discharge is 88ah for a 220ah battery (which I have derated to 200) even after derating the battery average discharge is still well south of 50% dod. Again you are playing with fire. Maybe you don't mind spending over 400k once every year sha. If that is the case then touché.

ayinba1:
@Bigrovar - thanks for your input. I visited the link for your set up and pardon my lack of technical know how but few questions

1. why is the sum across each set of 4 panels significantly different? I understand that a series connection should give an approximate sum of individual panels so I was expecting a sort of sequence, (not that it matters a great deal as the total pwer is still a sum of both arrays).



Are all eight connected or are they 2 separate power generators going into the inverter.

The 2 set is arrays are connected to different solar charge controllers. Hence why their output differs. Also because each array are made up of similarly sized solar panels. But the array sizes are different hence different output. Although for the most part both charge controllers (whose output are connected in parallel to the same battery bank) work in sync. Sometimes an array produces enough power to keep the battery in absorption at which point the second array goes to sleep until when needed. This also account for different array output.

2. Is DoD a function of battery or how you set up your system?

Tbh I personally don't use or believe in Dod systems like low voltage disconnect.. Rather I prefer to deign my system load and generation around a cycle use that leave my battery at 35-40% depth of discharge. That is what work for me. Although I can understand why some need it especially where you have a large house hold such a feature might come handy when u are not around. For this I would recommend a system that works in sync with the Victron battery monitor. Using the state of charge and relay function.

Reprobate:
thanks for the prompt response.
yes i hv powered a normal 1.5hp ac + 1hp inverter ac simultaneously b4..inverter shows 61% load..
i couldnt wait and powered the 2hp ac..load displayed was 11% with only the indoor unit blowing..and jumped to 56% when the outdoor unit kicked in..battery voltage dropped from float of 58v to 50.8v..cc input is btw 550w to 650w..not a sunny day..
intend to keep an eye on the batt voltage..so it doesnt go below 48v...batts hv been having an easy life..never gone below 49.2v on normal use.its a highpower inverter

Egbon you are playing with FIRE. You do not have the battery capacity nor the pv power to be even considering running AC.. Not even for 30 minutes. Limit your battery discharge not just by the 50% did rule, but most importantly by your capacity to replace what as been discharged within the 5 hours sun window (not as easy as you think with Lead acid batteries) that's bulk, and 2 to 3 hours of current limiting absorption and get your battery to float. If you are not careful you will end up in a cycle of energy deficit which would leave your battery in prolonged under charge state (a battery should get full and proper charge on a daily) the beginning of its demise. Save yourself the hassle and get 3k fuel to power our AC for the event. If you have a 3kw solar array then you care dare to dream the AC life. Just my opinion sha.

godspeed:
Thanks boss

The battery is still new, bought it two weeks ago

On option 2, I don't even use the battery in the afternoon at all as I'm always at work. I only need the battery to work for like four hours when I return home in the evening.

Pic of the controller

There in lies the culprits. Roy solar.. Its you again ... Bro your inverter and solar charge controller have conspired to murder your battery. Even if you don't use those batteries they would still die. The inverter will never be able to charge those batteries properly. They won't be able to give it proper absorption charge (14.4v at the very least) and 15.3v for 2 hours of equalisation at least once a month. You won't get that from your inverter. The charge controller is even worse. Fortunately you have a tubular battery so the situation can still be saveged. Get a different inverter one of the powerstar series from Must or felicity if possible, get a tracer series charge controller and connect your panels in series. All this would set u back over a 100k. It is the price for bad installation. Solar is not cheap. You can't afford to make a mistake because it gets even more expensive.

EnigmaticEnigma:
yeah, i get all that, it's just the reporting that's still confusing.

Look at the screen shot below

2.80amps * 56.83v should give you 159watts
.
yet you are reporting 77watts, which is about 2.80amps * battery voltage about 25.5v.

Oh I see where the misconception is coming from. PV amps before cc is different from pv amps after cc. Usually the pv might produce something like 5amps at 30v.. once it gets to the cc, an mppt controller would then pull down the voltage and up the amps to like 10amp 14v (for a 12v system).

What my log is displaying is the amp after cc and the pv voltage. Some controllers have ability to display pv amp before cc and after cc.

in essence the right calculation for my watt is to multiply battery volt with amps after cc. This would give u the closest to the pv power. remember that pv watt before cc and pv watt after cc should be the about the same, only the volts and amps gets rearranged.

ayinba1:
Quick question for the house. Is there any advantage to buying the component parts to build from the USA? Or are there brands that are obtainable in Nigeria and have been shown to be efficient?
If I can save on forex, I would love that!

Also, still asking about an estimate total figure for 1.8 to 2.0kVa, not the breakdown. I just want to know if I can dive into it

Thanks everyone

Depending on what you intend to go with. Something like a charge controller might be better to buy from the US. They are cheaper there and relatively easier on logistics. You might also consider safety equipments like circuit breakers and surge protectors. Other items should be bought in Nigeria.

Regarding your earlier question on the viability of a 1.8kw solar setup. Oga niyi has said it all. The focus should be as much on your load as it is on your generation. In fact for my setup I spent more time on my load design than I did on generation trying to ensure that my load stays within the limit of what I can easily put back in the system the next day. So efficiency plays a big role. Lighting to the type of climate control equipment, type of TV etc. I also spend considerable among of time on reducing loses. Using the right type of cabling, getting the right direction and inclination for my panel.. All this has conspired to ensure I get adequate and optimal balance in my setup. At least now my system is online you can monitor it and see for yourself the truth of the matter. Despite having just 2 batteries (non of which are premium) and 8 solar panels (2 of which I got brand new) I still maintain an average of discharge of 40% dod for my battery.. For a house hold that does not even have a nepa pole. I just feel less attention is being paid to optimisation.. We just throw panels at the problem. Hope I was able to bring some clarity.

EnigmaticEnigma:
Been following it closely bro, I was up at like 5a.m the other day and was watching your charge controller wake up. Once again, very cool.

What I mean, is that, the watts being reported, does not correspond to the amps and volts reported.

for instance, say you were getting like 10amps at 55v, that should be 550watts reported, but it reports 250 watts instead, which seems like it's multiplying the amps by the battery voltage, instead of converting the amps to a higher value as an mppt should do.

do you understand what i mean?

Oh.. In that case it's depends on the state of charge of the battery. The amount of PV power available for charging depends on load and battery state of charge. If my battery is in bulk on a good day my PV would be on over drive to fill it up.. On such an occasion you would see PV voltage drop to about 48v that is when mppt Is doing its thing. However once the battery gets filed to absorption then the current starts to be reduced and voltage increased at this stage the cc will move to the higher end of the PV IV curve this is when you would see the PV volt at 50 and above.. What is means is that the pv is not being driven to their full potentials.

EnigmaticEnigma:
I was watching your system yesterday online, it's so so cool. Have a question though, why is your power generation not gelling with the raw amps and volts your pv arrays are putting out? I thought you were using an MPPT controller?

I don't know when last you checked. But it does. It shows individual array's watt, amp and volts and also shows combine watts, and watts among other things.

Output today has been very dull in abuja, no thanks to largely over cast sky.

bigrovar:
Hi guys, I just finished adding internet and live monitoring to my offgrid solar setup using the Raspberry Pi, a USB 3G modem, and the open energy monitoring system software called Emonpi. The output of the system can be viewed here. http://energy.bobby.com.ng/dashboard/view?id=1

For those interested in how I did this. I live tweet the whole process on twitter and you can follow the thread here

I have completed the remote logging and monitoring protect for my solar offgrid setup. I finally took delivery of serial to usb cable which allowed me DIY the victron VE Direct to USB and subsequently add the 2 solar charge controller and victron battery monitor to the logging system on the Rpi. The final dashboard is finished and quite comprehensive. I designed it to display in real time the power generation from the 2 seperate solar array, their energy yield and the combined output.

It also shows battery state of charge (in percentage, and depth of discharge in amp..) There is a visual indicator which shows the battery level and a figure that shows how much amps hours is in the battery at a particular time. The battery monitor also displays charge and discharge rate.

Lastly there are graphs that show solar generation over a time period (by the minute, hour, day, weeks and months) another graph shows the voltage and charge curve of the battery. I tried to make the dashboard visually pleasing and easy on the eye. I might have failed at that though because my day UI has never been my strong point.

http://energy.bobby.com.ng/dashboard/view?id=1

mank1234:
Bigrovar you're a genius. I can't start mentioning how you, dmerciful, earthrealm, niyiomoIyunade and others have contributed to my going RE.

The original Emonpi hardware goes for over 150 pounds and is originally made by them to measure only AC, temperature and humidity. Kudos.

With this your innovation, one can monitor generation and disconnect non-essential loads when generation is poor. Will you be kind enough to acquire, program and probably sell a unit? Or do a step by step procedure and the link to get the required parts.

I just want to be able to monitor pv generation and battery voltage remotely in order to turn OFF power gulping appliances. I already have Sonoff switch for remote ON/OFF.

Bro e no reach like that o. I hope to find time to do proper guide and like to the hardware. although the system is based on emonpi.. I took lots of liberties from offcially supported standard install. The unit runs Linux (debian for that matter) an operating system that has been my daily driver for over 10 years so it was easy hacking it to fit my needs. For example, getting it to work with the USB dongle and by an extension glo.. this are things like might sound trivia for most users.. you connect install drivers and you are good to go, On linux especially an headless system where you only get to work via commandline.. things gets more.... interesting. I had to roll back the years and dig deep into IPtables, wvdial and working round the Linux init (systemd now adays)... If you are comfortable with Linux and Apache servers than it shouldn't be too hard.

bigrovar:
Hi guys, I just finished adding internet and live monitoring to my offgrid solar setup using the Raspberry Pi, a USB 3G modem, and the open energy monitoring system software called Emonpi. The output of the system can be viewed here. http://energy.bobby.com.ng/dashboard/view?id=1

For those interested in how I did this. I live tweet the whole process on twitter and you can follow the thread here

https://twitter.com/bigbrovar/status/1001819352008658945

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DectXchX0AEtHnS.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dewpp41X0AEhwRZ.jpg

for now the system monitors only one of my PV array, I am yet to receive items I require to DIY a victron VE direct to USB cable. I need 3 I have just 1. hence the second PV array and battery monitors are not yet being monitored.

Hi guys, I just finished adding internet and live monitoring to my offgrid solar setup using the Raspberry Pi, a USB 3G modem, and the open energy monitoring system software called Emonpi. The output of the system can be viewed here. http://energy.bobby.com.ng/dashboard/view?id=1

For those interested in how I did this. I live tweet the whole process on twitter and you can follow the thread here

https://twitter.com/bigbrovar/status/1001819352008658945

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DectXchX0AEtHnS.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dewpp41X0AEhwRZ.jpg

Dkev:
please could anyone here who owns an inverter refrigerator (i know both bigrovar and kiekie have one) please share with us it's consumption in terms of watts and an actual picture of the appliance. also, I want to get a washing machine, if anyone has an energy efficient model, please share too (pic and stats). thanks in advance

The unit I got is the 225L single door. It uses about 50w peek power but that varies it settles to around 40w. The down side is it defrosts very fast... but the up side is that it can conveniently be left to run longer period without damaging your battery.

Hi guys. Its been a while that I have grazed this parts. Quick question.. Is there anyone who by any chance still uses glo modem with say wvdial. I am doing some IoT work with RaspberryPi and I will be using a glo USB 3g dongle for Internet connection. The dongle works with Mtn but the coverage in the area I am deploying is very patchy. Feedbacks would be appreciated.

pranil:
Thos of you owning a Ipower/ Gennex or other clones of Voltronic/Axpert - ( or considering buying one )_ might find the attached the link interesting. A ton of information there on software, customized firmware, repairing, optimizing

Warning - the posts Huge running into hundreds of pages

http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4332

daily tonic

pranil:
Found an interesting link on the issue of CC blowing up when the battery MCB trips

http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/119710076701/faq-never-disconnect-the-battery-from-the-solar

It's one more to admire the design of Victron mppt blue solar chargers. Last weekend while carrying out some scheduled maintenance on my battery bank (repositioning them, cleaning the terminal connections etc) as usual I turned off the battery fuse to the inverter and controllers (this was around 11-12am about the pick time of solar irradiance in Abuja) it was a complete rocky mistake but little did I know as I took my time in making sure bolts where retight, cleaned terminal washers and changed battery positions. When I was done in about an hour and half later. I noticed the charge controllers were both on float.. At least I wondered why.. Then I remembered that I had disconnected the battery while the PV was still connected. Rather than see blue smoke the mppt solar from victron which are designed to have their circuit powered from solar as well as battery simply interpreted the lack of a battery load to mean a full battery state of charge moved to the part of the PV IV curve where zero power is generated essentially safely shutting down the controller while the pv remains in open circuit voltage with zero current passing through. Had I been using another controller.. I would have been here receiving sorry for my rocky error. Instead I connected the battery back and got the system working like before. Like Pranil noted a while back. How a cc is designed matters a lot.

Namzy:
Thanks for reply i opted for 2kva with plans to add a refrigerator, 32 or 40 inch lcd or led tv and ps4 later with the solar. I read that tubular batteries are good for up to 8 years that's the main reason I opted for them. Because money is hard to come by.
PS it's really wonderful that you dropped the exact prices I've been seeing online. Thanks again for that

Only if you take good care of them extremely well, regularly equalise them, ensure you keep up with water toping, and most importantly of all, you do not discharge them below 25% of their capacity, then and only them will those batteries stand a chance to still be kicking after 5 - 6 years of use.

an inverter here are what I would lookout for.
* Good reviews: Try and get something that is well known proven and has good reviews from users
* Support: This is very important, even the highly priced premium inverters do breakdown. It is important you get something that has good local support, investigate on the company and how close their support (not sales office) centre is to you, inverters are very bulky and heavy and it is often best to convey the system directly to the support centre, explain the issue yourself to the technician and properly test that it has been fixed before you take it back. A company with good support is more likely to honour their warranty compared to a marketing company masquerading as an engineering company. Remember you are dealing directly with the company not the person who sold the inverter to you (this is the best route to avoid unnecessary delays and frustration.
* Get an inverter that works with your battery. You want to get a Tubular battery (which is a Flooded Acid Battery -FLA) those batteries require regular equalisation at least once a month. Not all inverters are capable of equalising so keep that in mind
* If you intend to power computer (not laptop) or network switches, make sure the inverter has what is known as ups mode. This allows the inverter to switch between mains and backup in less than 10 milliseconds, anything higher would not lead to a smooth transition when power fails.
* of cause charge capacity is important as you have already figured out.
Some inverters have the ability to charge your batteries when they are off this can come in handy say when you are out of the house and would prefer to turn off your inverter to save battery discharge.

* Another important factor to consider is the efficiency of the inverter, some inverters are notoriously inefficient in converting DC to AC. some use as much as 100w just sitting idle (Thats about 4A at 24v) which means if you have a 200AH battery bank. Turning on the inverter for 10 hours would use 40ah from your battery bank (about 20% of your bank just to power the inverter)

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I agree that a picture or video of his installation would help us see any obvious flaws or improvement areas in his current install.

I recommended additional panels because I don't see how OP would use 900W of panels to both run ~600W of house loads and charge batteries at thesame time - especially his 900W of panels would make a max instantaneous 720W to 800W of power on a very good day.

In my quoted post, I recommended 2,400W of panels as panacea to definitively solve an aggravated person's household power problems nearly 100% of the time even in poor weather conditions i.e. provide enough power to run loads within 600W and also charge two deeply depleted batteries to full before the end of the solar day. I clearly called out he could get by with 1,800W if his day time loads were less than 600W.

Please recall he is using Flames panels which I would derate to 70% of nameplate based on my personal usage experience so his 2,400W would peak at 1,700W instantaneous on the average.

I generally won't bother an household consuming an average 600W of power per hour to drop or cut their consumption too much - this is not canon but personal preference/design philosophy. Within a reasonable range of power needs, I would focus on power generation but if you cross certain thresholds or there are constraints to generating the needed power, then I would start looking for energy efficiency opportunities.

If OP stays at an average 600W consumption, I foresee him needing four instead of two 12v 200Ah batteries to stay within safe discharge limits and at this time the [extra] panel capacity will come in handy - any excess power can go to powering OP's fridge or freezer and improve the quality of life for the family. Remember the additional 2 units of Flames 300W panels to go from 1,800W to 2,400W array and secure all these added benefits is an incremental ~100k at current market prices - extra cost to be sure but not crazy outrageous and definitely recommended to make a happy man of our OP who is currently very displeased that he did not get value for his money with the current setup.

I most have missed something. I did not see the 600w consumption. Indeed 600w consumption is insane! for regular house use (from my perspective sha) and would require quite a lot generation to avoid falling into energy deficit. My response was based on this...

load is about 4 fans, 3 energy bulbs, 2 lcd TVs and 2 laptops

NiyiOmoIyunade:
So sorry for the issues your are experiencing - this is the typical experience of the average solar user who has had a sub-par installation foisted upon him/her - I would say the issues as described are mostly the result of poor design choices....

The improvements you may make;

1) Get more solar panels - an additional 5 units of Flames 300w Solar Panels to take your total array to 2,400W (8 pieces 300W panels). Under optimal conditions, your current 900W of panels will generate a max instantaneous 720W (900W x 80%) which is about 25A max charge (assuming 28volts average charging voltage over the course of one solar day). Your stated loads average 600W - if you were to put them all on during the day, your solar panels would not be making enough power to run these loads, hence you source the balance of your power needs off your batteries, hence your batteries conk off right in the middle of the day.

Taking your array to 2,400W guarantees enough power to run your day time loads even under average weather conditions and enough excess power to charge your batteries fully ready for night time use. If your day time loads are under 300W then you may get by with a 1,800W array.

2) Get a decent MPPT charge controller e.g. Fangpusun 80A (80A CC will help you squeeze max juice out of a 2,400W PV array with your 24v battery setup)- this will help you push max power into your batteries per time. I have a running joke that MPPT permits us to be lazy engineers - any average Joe can cobble together an installation using an MPPT CC and get decent performance, but it would take a really good engineer/designer to setup a robust and efficient system using PWM especially in a fairly large system.

If you are willing to spludge or spend for the long term, then of course you can buy a more premium CC e.g Midnite Solar or Morningstar.

3) You may ultimately have to upgrade your inverter and battery combo - the GDM batteries sound to me like your standard Sino-origin grey grade offering and you are definitely stressing them by running them down to 0% (you want to stay at 50% DoD limit if possible) and also presenting a C8 discharge rate at 600W load instead of a C20 240W load they were designed for is not helping their life - I cannot speak for or against Prag - I only ever used their inverter once and I was not particularly impressed with it as per build quality although the one I installed did not break or have any issues. I know for sure they can improve on their warranty and customer service experience based on other interactions I have had.

If you upgrade your solar panels and CC, you are looking at a 400k range spend - that will at least give you time to see that you now have a working system and then later you can upgrade your batteries if they prove to have gone bad. I'll leave what to do with your inverter up to your discretion.

Those are my thoughts - other people in the house will give you any additional perspective to help you return to a happy state.

Bros a 2400w for the stated load of OP don't you think it is quite over the top? especially considering the 700k he just spent? Myself I use 1.84kw panel with grid disconnected and that powers the whole house on a 24/7 basis (Including Fridge, freezer, washing machine, TV, lightning and fan at different set time point).. I think it is important to understand what went wrong with this installation before hitting the buy button. I started my solar journey with 2 240w panels and 2 batteries and even that was able to ensure 4 hours of 175l chest freezer time, and over night light use before I upgraded to 3, then 4, then 6 and now 8 panels with a combined power of 1.84kw. The loads specified by the OP are do not contain any inductive or every equipment like fridge or freezer.

I think it is important to determine what went wrong with this install, find a way to make his load more efficient. An efficient and optimised load go a long way in paying off solar investment much more than pilling on the panels. changing my inverter from felicity to ipowerplus for example improved my early morning battery state of charge to 71% from about 55% because the ipowerplus uses about 30w during dc to ac conversion while the felicity uses north of 58w. The 20w difference made a big difference. I intend to further reduce things by getting a rechargeable ceiling fan to replace the electric motor ceiling fan in the living room. The energy sayings from this 22k investment would be used in increasing the run time of the new smart inverter LG refrigerator to about 18 hours daily while maintaining current battery daily depth of discharge to 29-35% .. remember we are talking about 2 12v, 220AH indian tubular battery that are going into their 3rd year of service.

OP should post picture of his install let all see any obvious fault and make recommendation. If op is in abuja, I might even want to come and see things for myself (pro bono)

DUNKA:
bigrovar just curious on how the lightning strike affected your inverter. I thought you had lightening surge protectors installed?

Bros, I am yet to fully deploy lightning protection for the new house.

solibayo:
Gurus in the house...i need your opinion and help please

i paid for solar plus inverter back in January this year at a cost of over N700000 for which the installer supplied a 2.4kv prag inverter plus two GDM 200Ah batteries and three 300w flames mono solar panel with a roy solar controller so its safe to say that the installer made a very very good profit on my job because if I had bought all that myself and called him to just install, the materials won't cost me more than 525k as at then and am sure he can't charge me 200k for just installation

but i wanted to avoid issues so I let him buy everything and avoid "i am not the one that bought it, i just installed it" issues but unfortunately those issues i wanted to avoid
all came back now making it turn out to be the worst purchase i ever did in my life.

first off...i knew that solar was fishy as its mostly reading arnd 7 to 11A even under bright hot sun.

from day 1..i hardly got 20A charging frm the solar(frm my calc..900w solar should give upto 40A at 24v)...so even at full sunny day..once phcn doesn't bring light for a full day..inverter goes down arnd 6 to 7pm..now the solar charging is so bad that if nepa takes light frm morning, the inverter goes off mid day arnd 1-2 pm when the sun is at its brightest

just 6 weeks after installation, the useless prag inverter gave up..thats when i knew something was fishy 100%...the inverter would be supplying light to mains when in battery mode..had to take it in to warranty repairs.

now the inverter hardly gives 3.5 hrs backup down frm about 9 hrs when it was new in january(same load)..this is something less than 4 months old and has never worked for more than 7 weeks at a time without going nuts

usually nepa takes light by 12 midnight and bring by 4am....now even b4 4am..dis unverter would be screaming low battery and shutdown anything frm past 3am...just dissappointing for a setup costing over 700k

the installer is very nonchalant because i paid him in full so he doesn't seem to care. always forming busy and like he is doing me a favour to even respond to my messages

lesson av learnt so far is never pay any technician/artisan in full upfront and also never ever buy a prag inverter...never..dat brand is just useless!!!

can u believe that after the inverter packed up just 6 weeks after installation, it took this idiot installer another 6 weeks to show up and take it to the service center?

later...dey will say its village people when its just deir stinking attitude thats killing their prospects

if i had been on installment with this proud fool that installed this nonsense..he would have been forced to fix all this

now to why am here..any suggestions on how I can at least get arnd 6-7 hrs backup regularly?

because as it is...the prag inverter is crap(i mean i knw many ppl on luminous that has worked for years)

the solar is semi crap

now it seems the battery too is giving up

all these barely 4 months after installation that cost over 700k

ppl just don't have fear of God in this country

load is about 4 fans, 3 energy bulbs, 2 lcd TVs and 2 laptops

any suggestions on how to remedy this pathetic situation highly recommended!

thanks in advance

I feel your pain. It is to avoid situation like this that I decided to go the DIY route when I started my solar Journey. After meeting numerous installers and though I knew very little about electricity or solar.. I just knew some things were missing from talking to most of the installers. In the end I decided to bury my head in books and read my way into solar.. buying the components little by little. I don't even know where to start.

From all you have stated, the issue could be multiple but for the most part many things can be made good. First supply a picture of the installation to give us a better view of things. It would allow us see obvious issues like bad cablings or faulty connections. Next ask the installer how he connected the solar. Roysolar is favourite of most quark installers. It is a PWM charge controller - which is not all bad in itself if it is well connected to the solar panel. My guess is he connected the 3 panels in parallel which might explain why you are struggling to charge your batteries.

GeorgeD1:
niyi,
reading through your post i couldn't help but shake my head in disgust when i place my horrible experience
with protek energy side by side your sweet experience with morningstar. after making me climb up and down
my hot water tank for several days in a row they had to wash their hands off the same warranty they used
to peddle their product. interestingly i notice they now mostly advertise inverters, cc and solar panels these
days. no more mention of solar water heaters. but peeps should not be deceived. if they could shy away from
honouring their warranty on solar water heaters claiming flimsily that they were not the ones that did the
installation, they could as well do so for inverters and panels whenever issues arise. all they need to do is
claim that the customer installed their inverters wrongly and hence not their fault. end of warranty,
end of story!

On the issues of warranty I think it's apt to put another experience out on here, this time from a company a bit local.

The long part of the story is documented in my blog here http://bobby.com.ng/2018/05/20/lightning-fan-and-warranty-issues/
The top long didn't read tldr version of the above is.. My inverter started misbehaving after a lightning strike. Took up the issue with felicity inverters because it was under warranty. Was directed to an Abuja service center where the issue was fixed in fact a new control board was installed in less than 2 hours and inverter was working back as new. Not a kobo was asked for or paid. I was impressed not just because of the honored warranty but because of the spread of their service center for a relatively new entrant to the market to not only have service centers in outside of lagos but to also ensure those centers are well stocked with parts. It was a pleasant experience and I would definitely recommend their product based on above.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Well I can tell you for sure you won't regret buying or using a Morningstar CC - the particular one throwing an intermittent fault is still mounted in my house and chugging along like a champ and squeezing an average of 11KwH per day from a 3.6kw west facing array of Flames 300w panels - it was just a minor annoyance going through the logs and seeing that error message logged 6 days out of 10 - there was no impairment to functionality whatsoever.

I feel even luckier when I consider that they effectively dashed me a CC that costs at least 240k landed cost in Nigeria while allowing me to keep the still functioning one they were replacing - when the new CC arrives I have to decide whether to mount it or keep it as a spare.

Imagine that, having a spare Morningstar MPPT 60a to at zero cost

The day a Naija based seller or supplier on this forum is able to perform such a feat as this one that Morningstar just pulled, they would win my respect and loyalty forever - at the minimum if they cannot replace faulty goods under warranty, they should at least treat the customer with respect and consideration for relationship's sake.

I actually had similar experience with but Epsolar and Fangpusun. On both occasions I informed them of a defective units and was sent a replacement FOC without much hassle. The Epsolar was great because I actually procured the device from Jumia and the issue I had related to the external display.. But lo and behold I Wass set a brand new charge controller via DHL once I contacted them. Same thing happened with Fangpusun.. At least with the latter I purchased the product from aliexpress. The later case related to me upgraded a poisoned firmware update from victron designed to slowly kill off Fangpusun clones. I informed Fangpusun and rather than blame me agreed to send a replacement immediately without asking me to send the defective unit back or even asking me to take a picture. I did not state the story here because I fear our people. Last thing I wanted was for someone to abuse the system and shut that door for Nigerians.

This is why I often ask people who have issues with their product to first try contacting the manufacturer directly rather than wasting time pinging he marketer who sold to them.

duwdu:
I earlier today acquired one of these MUSt units, as advertised. Many thanks, kiekie1, for the sale and very prompt delivery service.

Dear forumites, let me in a way come out of my small DIY closet, lol... this acquired unit is part of my ongoing ensemble that includes an MPP Solar PCM60X CC, 1.320KW of panels (soon to be upped to approximately 3KW) and 800AH of AGM storage (not yet in place, but planned to be 400AH @ 24V.)

In all of this, I must mention here that NiyiOmoIyunade, davodyguy, as well as others have kindly provided me with most of the education, technical support and encouragement I've needed in the background. And for that, as well as the amazing posts on here that I've seen, I'm very grateful, guys!

I look forward to reporting back on here, as this project gets off the ground, and possibly goes into production and harvesting.

........
P34c3
.....
...

Congrats na small small o. Especially in this economy. Gradually acquiring your solar components not only bend time value of money in your favour. It also allow you time to learn as your assemble components which reduces the chances of mistakes.

BTW where did you get the mpp solar inverter?

sinistrian:
Davodyguy please where can I fix a faulty gennextech inverter?

have you tried taking it to the company?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I do believe your PV input voltage headroom is too high in this your config.

You are using 70v on the PV side to charge batteries that will charge at a max rate of 15v since you have a 12v nominal system - the MPPT buck converter must be working double duty to 'down convert' with a 55v headroom and this is an el cheapo controller mind you.

Please consider putting your two 340w panels in PARALLEL - disconnect all PV and also switch off PV to CC breaker - combine the 2 panels' positive wires into the PV to CC incoming positive and also combine the 2 panels' negative wires with the PV to CC incoming negative wire. With this new scenario you should be getting 35v or so on the PV side which is more than sufficient headroom to down convert and charge your 12v batteries.

The PV to CC amperage will double with your panels in parallel vs series - what gauge/thickness of wire are you using?

Please make the changes indicated and let us know the outcome.

I doubt that is the reason why Pv input drop down to 15v. Although the tracer is relatively alcheapo yet they do make quality cc with solid components. My fast cc sets of cc were tracers I went from the RN to A to the BN series. The only issue I had with them was slow tracking they excelled best with high vmp from the panel. My first config was using the tracer on a 12v system with Pv vmp at close to 65v and voc at North of 70. Total wattage stood at 500w and the system performed fine without any issue at all. I upgraded to a 24v system for better efficiency and performance. Something is definitely wrong with op tracer. If it is under warranty then he might want to take it up with the company they do respect their warranty.

mank1234:
How reliable are the inverters with built-in MPPT solar controller in terms? Do they track well?

The Axpert series of inverters white labelled as ipowerplus in Nigeria are quite good. We have 2 at work 4kw models with 2.2kw solar panel attached.. They track quite well and are very fast at sensing battery load and respond very fast.. The Axpert series is very popular and quite reliable. I can't speak for other brands that ship with built in controller sha.

sensisosu:
Hello guys,

I think I’m getting paranoid right now.. I have a 1500w system

12 250w mono installed 2*2 on a 48v inverter system with 4 200a 12v Sukham batteries.
60a epever e tracer

Right now the sun is shinning but total wattage produce is 330-375W, while charging with 7a

First red flag is the 2x2 for a 48 volt system is a no no especially when you are using an mppt charge controller. Once you remove heat and cable length related losses you are left with very little to actually charge your battery.. When you include the extra load of an mppt controller then it would be a challenge to get the required 57.6v required to adequately charge your battery. Switch your configuration to 3*4 ie 3 in series.. This would give your mppt cc enough headroom to pull down voltage for u to be able to enjoy the advantage of a true mppt

NoMoreTrolling:
well the choice of cc was made my the installer, we just paid for the whole system, instead of paying for parts, so we had to deal with what he got.

As for experience, well, this stuff is all pretty basic. well i guess that sounds, weird, being that I made this cc error, but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. When the batteries are full, the charge controller throttles charging current all the way down to zero, even in full sun, so why would it fry when the battery is disconnected isn't that open circuit similar to no current on a full battery

tbh I didn't really follow your OP however the quoted caught my attention and I feel it should be corrected before someone else subscribe to similar line of thinking. Most MPPT charge controllers are powered by the battery not the solar panel. We should remember that a charge controller is an electrical not a mechanical device. It requires electricity to carry out its functions of regulating and down converting solar from high voltage to lower voltage of the battery . Connecting a CC to PV without battery is basically short circuiting the controller.. The huge amount of energy unregulated coming from the PV can blow through the cc circuitry since they have no where to flow to.

On the question of a full battery.. What happens is the cc (remembered using power from the battery) stays in the higher voltage curve of the PV.. The higher voltage curve has lower current and that is how the system works.. If your battery is low.. The cc would detect the the battery state and move to the optimal curve that allows the battery to be charged using the maximum voltage obtainable at the best current.. There have to be a balance and the cc is always adjusting based on solar Ray. I am sure someone with a more in depth knowledge can explain this better.

pranil:
Thank you. The Venus( operating system behind CCGX /color control can be run also on raspberry pi ( that's what got me started with Victron family)- after which next was BMV then charge controller and then Quattro as my confidence and appetite for the technology got better of me


Infact thos of you with BMV 700/702 can give it a try all you need a raspberry pi and a Ve-direct to USB cable ( few USD) the Pi will connect to VRM(Victron remote portal) Then you can monitor your SOC from anywhere in the world - set alarms etc. as the system is open source there is enough support on google groups even from victron for non standard setups

You took the world right out of my mouth. The above is why am a fan of Victron, when it comes to software integration they are miles ahead of the competition. The cherry on top is the openness of the company to allow community and 3rd party participation. The communication protocol for the VE-direct devices (MPPT charger, Battery monitor and inverters) are open and in plain text for monitoring and Hex for sending commands, The specification for the cable itself is opensource and there is a white paper on how you can DIY the VE connect USB cable should you want to... As started Venus the software at the heart of the amazing CCGX is completely open source and has been ported to the raspberry pi with support for RBp touch screen LCDs!!!

My next project is to have a monitoring system using the open api of Victron. I intend the DIY the V.E Direct cable at least two (I have one O.G V.E Direct cable already) and also install the Venus OS image on a raspberry pi with a 4.3 resistive touch screen from waveshare (Same touch screen drive that comes builtin with Venus).. In the end the goal is to have a functioning CCGX device which is also capable of logging to a custom instance of emoncms as well as connect to the Victron Remote Monitoring service. I have already ordered for the parts and tools needed to accomplish this goal. I will be updating this page.

pranil:
My earlier long post on the issue was swallowed by the Nairaland gremlin and I got banned for 24 hours I wonder why?

But in general, comparing lithium on installed price is not correct . for that matter any energy producing device is not priced at purchase price but on LCOE ( Levelized cost of electricity ) essentially price per kWh ( for detail understanding with Nigeria context)

1. True cost of LCOE .pdf
2. what is LCOE ( BNEV)


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2i8lq9fo7mqh3dx/AAB39JNif_f-0FUZ68q4jz23a?dl=0

in my own case, the LCOE of BYD came to 50 NGN/KWH while trojan 12 V came to 55 and trojan 2V came to 45 NGN/KWH

This was including the cost of additional bms, shipping, customs stec. - I posted a simplified excel sheet with zero discounting a while back for those who are interested.

for me, there were two very big incentives - the convenience of not having to babysit the battery ( my other setup has flooded lead acid) and superfast charging ( since I also use the Diesel generator to charge on extended grid failures in the night )


What is also to be factored is the reduction of required PV panels - Due to fast charging and higher efficiency and absence of periodic equalization you can get away with 20 to 30 % smaller array for the same KWH of usable capacity

please refer to attached pdf ( lead-acid batt efficiency)


quote " - zero SOC to 84% SOC the average overall battery charging efficiency is 91%, and that the incremental battery charging efficiency from 79%to 84% is only 55%. This is particularly significant in PV systems where the designer expects the batteries normally operate at SOC above 80%"


finally, the choice of technology depends on the usage pattern but in general, Lithium makes sense currently in the application of peak reduction or timeshift of energy use . as a pure storage lead-acid will be the king for a quite a while till alternate technologies catch up

p.s interesting side note to the debate - On Sunday I noticed that small generators ( 2.5 kw to 7 KW) sold by Games in Jabi, Abuja have been fitted with lithium batteries as starter battery instead of standard SMF battery - There cannot be a worse application in hot temperatures than a generator starter battery

All this points to is that long term Lithium will eventually cost lesser than lead acid batteries.. However what this analysis misses out is the fact that Money Time Value overwhelmingly favours Lead acid. Lithium is only cheaper over a longer stretch of time. The initial cost is the biggest turnoff and why it is yet to be mainstream. The added fact that lithium is still a bleeding edge technology which is not yet as matured as LA is one more reason why time value does not favour it.. In the many years while Lithium is still paying for itself.. newer, better and cheaper iteration of lithium or energy storage device would have been released.