₦airaland Forum

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Yes you can assume so. However the reality in my experience is very different especially if you have your battery bank setup in series. All will be going well for a year or two and then bam!!! suddenly backup time drops and you check and realise one or two batteries are failing and weaker than the rest. This is the reason why when one changes out a battery bank of say four 12v batteries you will usually find two batteries that are still very good in the bank and one or two that are average/bad.

Here is the thing - there is a fundamental assumption that when you receive say 4 brand new batteries of a given brand X they were all manufactured at about thesame time and from thesame batch, are all at the exact same state of charge and of roughly the exact same capacity - the reality is different with manufacturer variations within and across different batches, time in transit and storage with the attendant self discharge/loss of some charge or capacity, batteries from different batches and ages mixed together at the warehouse and then shipped to you when you purchase.

The net effect is that the those four brand new batteries you receive are all very different internally and are at different chemical and electrical states. Assuming good manufacturer process quality and all are roughly thesame capacity, you may receive one battery at 97% state of charge, one at 89%, one at 92% and the last one at 80%. If you checked the voltage of all these batteries they would all test between 12.8 and 13.1 indicating a 'full charge'

Cobble all these batteries together in series and fire up your inverter and the slow death begins. The battery with the highest state of charge gets full first and maybe the next highest, at this point your inverter senses the set absorb point is reached and shifts into float. In reality the two batteries with the lowest state of charge never get a full charge - when you discharge them, the fully charged ones give up their power and say you cutoff at 50%, the undercharged ones will cutoff more deeply discharged at say 30% power left - with each charge and discharge cycle the gap widens and the undercharged batteries get less and less of a full charge and sulfation slowly strangles them until when you realise that these batteries aren't performing as expected at which time it's usually too late.

The answer is to charge each new battery fully before you put it into service especially in a series config. A 48v inverter thinks it is seeing one huge 48v battery and not four 12v batteries so the installer has to work to make sure the four 12v batteries are fully charged and are as closely matched to each other in capacity as possible.

Every six months or so, isolate each battery again and give it the treatment > fully charge each battery > test capacity and select those batteries with capacity within thesame range > put back into service.

According to the research done by Victron Energy for their battery balancers, a 2% variation in initial battery capacity and/or state of charge is sufficient to slowly kill the weaker batteries from undercharging and sulfation and the stronger ones from overcharging .

These days I have gotten lazy as I grow into my old age so I would just occasionally switch my batteries from 4 in series to 4 in parallel and use a 12v inverter to charge and discharge them for like a week because I believe the batteries get closer to an equal charge in parallel. Where I wanna move to which is what I do now when clients have battery issues before warranty expiry is to clap a cheapo chinco 12v smart battery charger (Suoer) on each individual battery in a bank and let each one do it's work of giving a full charge to the battery it is connected to. No time to spend the whole day or pay multiple visits to any client

At under 20k each I now have 4 of these chargers - may do more as time goes - so we can move to site and provide the treatment quickly without changing anything in the client's setup.

Yes you can have a 48v inverter charging four batteries in series and still clamp on a 12v charger to each battery without issues so long as you do not mixup polarity. The Souer's absorb setpoint is 14.8volts so I just reduce the inverter setpoint to say 14.1 or 14.4volts during the treatment period so that the Souer does most of the charging and topping off.

So that is how I do it! I am sure by now its obvious if you go through my posts that I have pretty strange ideas about how batteries behave and should be maintained. These are the conclusions I reached based on careful study and hands on experience with various battery banks.

The above is why I love flooded batteries. The ability to send equalising voltage cross all the batteries in the bank forcing all the cells to get higher voltage charge until you ensure (with the help of an hydrometer) that their voltage has been brought to an equilibrium, the ability to do this once a month means battery will never be allowed to be stuck in voltage imbalance for a long time. If you use a Valve regulated battery than your best bet is a battery balancer.

And it is better to have batteries in series connections than parallel. Parallel connection are generally less efficient, more expensive to setup and are more prone to imbalance, even with the best battery to charge/load connection the different internal resistance of batteries are more pronounced with parallel than with series. With series connection you are dealing mostly with voltage imbalance, which can be dealt easily with battery balancer, with parallel imbalance is more current.. some batteries would do more of the work and get more of the charge (thanks to internal resistance) you can try to fix this using battery connection but it only mitigate the problem.

makavele:
Let me correct a misconception here . . .
Take for example a 40A mppt controller on a 600W array connected to just a single 12V 100Ah battery
On a very good day, during bulk charging the array is capable of pushing out 25-30 Amps
But we all know it is best to charge batteries at one-tenth capacity (C10) i.e. in this example 10A;
So your controller is pushing 30A, which is an overkill for the battery.
Most people, like the poster above me, believe you can add or turn on some load to reduce the current entering the battery.
This is a misconception and why is so?
1. The PV array does not directly power any load connected to the inverter/battery bank.
2. What happens is that the battery is discharging and charging at the same time albeit very fast.
3. If for example, the total load turned on is 100W; and the PV is producing 150W; what happens is that the load
will draw 100W from the battery (discharge); and at the same time the PV will pump in 100W (recharge) to the battery
to replace what is lost and 50W is used to keep the battery in float (if it is already in float);
or used to keep charging the battery if it isn't yet in float

SO back to our example, what if the CC is delivering 30A on a c10 rated battery . .
if you like turn on all the load in the world; what is happening is that . . the CC is still sending in 30A to your battery
and in turn your battery is powering the loads connected, be it 10A, 20A, 2A, 100A
If the CC amp is greater than the load, the battery stays charged up
if the load amps is greater than CC amp, the battery will start discharging even while being connected to solar.

Thanks

This assumption is wrong in theory and in practise. Electricity flows from high potential to low potential.

Scenario 1 If say your PV is producing 1000w and your load is using 1200w, 1000w goes from your CC to your load, and the reminder 200w is taken from the battery.

Scenario 2 If your battery is full and your PV can potentially produce 1000w and your load is 1000w, the load from the PV goes straight to the inverter (Your battery is completely ignored.)

Scenario 3 If your PV can potentially produce 1000w and your load is using 500w then 500w goes from PV to load and unused 500wh would become potentials.

Scenario 4 if your battery is low and your PV is producing 800w but your load is using 800w,all 800w produced by the PV goes to the load. Non is left for the battery.

Remember like I said, electricity moves from high potential to low potential.. The lowest potential in all the above scenario is the load, not the battery. The battery always has a higher potential than the load, The battery charger in this case the PV/CC has the highest potential (so long as we are using a proper charger with the right voltage)

Its just against physics for a battery to draw electricity more than the load. The above is the theory.

For the practical, I have a Victron Battery Monitor BMV 700 the BMV comes with a current shunt which is connected to negative of the battery, inverter DC input negative cable and Controller dc output negative cable. The positive cable of the BVM connects to the battery.

The BMV monitors currents going into and out of the battery from the Inverter and CC. The BMV display shows gross net input and output to the battery hence
1 if my charge controller shows it is producing 24A and my load is 10A, the victron battery monitor shows 14A going into the battery. and this is confirmed by the battery voltage.

If I turn off the 10A load, I see the BMV showing 24A going into the battery. If I turn off the CC, the BMV will show -10A being drawn from the battery.

If my load is say 24A and CC is pulling 20A, the BMV shows -4A leaving the battery.

This idea that all power from the cc first goes to the battery and the load pulls it from the battery is false and against the principle of how electricity works. when I have time over the weekend I will demonstrate the truth of this.

mank1234:
You can limit maximum current some MPPT controller like MorningStar Tristar can output by changing the configuration. He might have done that to save your battery from excessive gassing due to too high charging current. 200AH battery can be charged at 60A but it's not ideal. 20A (C10) rate is optimum.

If you size output base on load, don't you think you risk damaging your battery when the anticipated load are not in use and sunshine is optimum?

Discuss with him if he limited it. If he did ask him to add another 200AH of battery and change the settings to btw 40 and 50A maximum.

It's all about smartly designed systems. My PV array can push out 50A to my 220ah 24v battery which is far from ideal. What I did is to break what goes into the battery using opportunity loads. A fridge and Freezer set to automatically start from 9am till 5pm will ensure that battery never gets charged more than 27ah during bulk, by 12pm when panel is able to push more than 27a into the battery (opportunity loads be damned) the battery is already in current limiting absorption charge stage.
The biggest problem with his setup is putting 2 panels in series. Such with never do more than surface charge his battery into an early grave. Little wonder he doesn't get any charge whatsoever once it's evening.

NoMoreTrolling:
hey, also when he was connecting the panels, he said he was going to do a 2 series/ parallel string.

okay, i think they were 250 watt panels, so he must have done, 2 series by 4 parallel.

The thing is, when he showed me the VOC for the panels, it was like 60 something volts, we are using a 48v inverter.

I told him that since we are installing an MPPT controller, he should do 3 series by 3 parallel connection, even if it means that we have to buy an additional panel, but he said that having a high VOC could damage the controller, even if the controller is rated for high VOC. He said on some sunny days, the VOC could exceed rated VOC and damage the controller.

I dunno, but I thought the whole point of having an MPPT controller was so you could get very high VOCs and step them down, so that on cloudy days, you would still make some power.

What time does your solar setup stop producing power? Is it still a bit light outside, or does yours stop only when its completely dark outside?

What is the name of the mppt controller you are using. Name and model number would do.

For a 48v system it's inexcusable to range your panels in series of 2. That's just dump for many reasons

1 You are sending more currents from PV to CC, more currents means more losses especially at the scale of PV modules u are putting in parallel. I bet a sizable about of power is lost to resistance from cabling alone.

2 issues with one leads to a 2nd problem. The losses from 1 reduces the voltage coming from the PV (amps are not affected by resistance, just voltages) of the about 60v coming from your PV between 3 to 5% can be lost to resistance 5% of 60v is 57v that's less than the 57.6v required to probably change a lead acid battery (assuming it's agm batteries flooded requires higher voltage) we are talking about resistance related losses alone. And that's not the only losses u would get. There is heat related voltage loss.. Simply put what eventually hit your battery would not be enough to probably charge it. Lots of power is lost due to the PV getting hot especially when it's mounted on the roof. Panel can lose 10% of their power thanks to heat.. Most of this affects the PV voltage.

3 your mppt is pretty much useless with this arrangement. Might even be better served with a pwm. No extra voltage from your Pv to make mppt worth it. Would have been perfect if u go 3 series string. Sending 90v down the wire would reduce resistance, give enough buffer to properly charge your battery and bring your mppt controller to work. As long as your mppt can handle the voc its a no Brainer.

Also check your cabling and also do a check of each panel to be sure they are working. Change your panel arrangement to save your batteries.

Kog45:
My guy I know you know football and this is the time to tell ourselves the truth.

The rising of Enyeama was like a magic he came in and stole the show just one cap to WC meaning he was giving the opportunity at the right time.

My university coach was the goalkeeper trainer for Eagles when Enyeama was discovered.My varsity coach said he took him just 20 mins to tell Onigbinde that this guy is WC bound.

He said as at that time Enyeama was better than Shorunmu but they are not ready to take the risk but the risk was taken when Shorunmu fumbled against Sweden.My varsity coach went to Onigbinde that Enyeama must be in goal against England.

Let me give you brief history of Nigeria goalkeepers,prior to 1980 nations cup, Emmanuel Okala was the first choice but when Father Tiko came and saw that Okala has passed his prime,he took a decision and threw in Best Ogedegbe as number 1.a very good decision.

At afcon 84 we have experience Patrick Okala the younger brother of Emma but Onigbinde stick with young Peter Rufai though Rufai missed the Afcon final due to injury and we dearly paid for it cos Patrick was in goal.

Let me jump it and this one w be so confusing cos a lot w not agreed with me but it's a fact.Peter Rufai at US 94 has passed his prime but find his way into the team due to fans pressure at the expense of in form Deportivo LA coruna Wilfred Agbonavbare who kept most of Nigeria qualifications matches in a spectacular way,this guy was dropped to the bench for Dodo Mayana.At Afcon 94 anybody that watched semi final and final can testify,Rufai was exposed but Westerhoff still stick with Rufai.

So sometime we don't need experience keeper to do it but the best to be in goal.

Am one of the apostle of calling Enyeama back but watching Uzoho against Girona changed my mind,he has what it takes to be number 1,the height is there, reflex, confidence what else again,see him against Argentina tells a lot, if experience cannot carry Ezenwa and Akpeyi then to hell with experience.

Enyeama is out for 6months and that should tell you a lot,some keeper w come back better but some we struggle to form,so what are the assurance that we w see better Enyeama.

Apart from football reason,you made a valid point,w the recalling of Enyeama not destroy the high and lovable spirit in camp.

Bros I salute your knowledge of the game. Indeed against common lore Rufai was past his pick when we went to USA 94 and Tunisia. He was terrible at corners and slow to react. Goals he conceded against Ivory coast and Zambia exposed his flaws. But I think his flaws was glossed over because he was in a team made of winners. His penalty save against Ivory coast further cemented his position in the team. Regarding Eyeama he did not become gold over night. The exposure he got in the England game and the confidence it game him went to shape his career but even then it was a long journey. We should remember he was turned down by Bolton before he want on to establish himself in France. My issue with him is he is a drama queen like Oliseh. And he did let down this lads and the country. When Ikeme was out many tried reaching out to him even house committee on sport but he never responded back. I think he should chill where he is.

What struck me about Uzoho performance was his confidence, he immediately took a commanding position of his 18 and rose to the occasion when questioned. He also was very good at ball distribution one of the most important qualities of a keeper in the modern game. His ability to initiate attack with his ball distribution and range of his kicks enables our game. I think for me he should be given a chance

Dam5reey:
As I mentioned, Electronics cannot be predicted...
Sometimes our decision may go wrong you don't have to push all the blame on your seller

From the story you narrated you never mentioned if there was a warranty and how long!

I bought a fairly used laptop from a store I had bought 1 about A year ago, based on my user experience, the laptop performed and served me well..
I decided to go for another one
I was given warranty as usual 1 week, after the warranty expire the keyboard stop working, had to change it with my money to a new one.. now I'm enjoying it..

Sometimes you need to just let some small things go..

How we handle issues matters alot. When your customer has to come to an open forum to shame you then you dropped the ball. I have had transaction with members on here where issues came up with used product I bought and sold but in all cases there were resolved back stage. In fact I once had juo send me another battery from Lag to abuja (at his cost) when the OG one had issues, in honor of warranty he offered. Heck he even sent it before I returned the defective batteries. There was no fight and it was he who advised I return the batteries for a better one. Also I got some panels from baressi and when I noticed some defect we both worked out the best way forward without as much has a voice raised in anger. Till date we are still friends on good terms. Myself too when a user bought my farely used pwm controller. I sent him another one and confirm it was working. Issues come up. How we handle them matters alot. Your customer should be a friend and a brother. Do all you can to avoid breaking that bridge.

Obimind1:
I didn't mail epsolar. I noticed that the problem was with the board of the mppt which is the heart of the cc. If there is any way I can reach ep solar, honestly I wouldn't mind. After all they is no crime in trying. A member on this forum told me how his board was changed and his epsolar came back to life, but the truth there is that he bought his own ep solar cc outside the shores of Nigeria. I don't know if their warranty really works in Nigeria.

They do respect their warranty even here in Nigeria. I once had issues with their controller (The meter) and they resolved the matter. You just need to send them proof of purchase and answer their further question on the problem.

Obimind1:
Epever 60 amp cc Itracer.

Did you get in touch with Epever? If you got it brand new. Get in touch with them they are quite responsive and do honor their warranty. I know a friend on here who had similar issues with his Epever and I have seen couple of post online too. All where resolved sha. My first controller was a Epever RN series. The meter developed a fault (which didn't affect the controller or charging functionality at all) besides that never had issues with their controllers.

GeorgeD1:
personally i think the advantages of mppt cc over pwm has been severely over-hyped and some of us here
(myself inclusive) are to blame. much as mppt has its place in the scheme of things when it comes to solar charging,
but so also does pwm. my first cc was a tristar pwm 45a and it served me doggedly for over two years without issues.
my batteries were well maintained over this period and i never had any reason to complain. i only set it aside albeit
reluctantly when i wanted to upgrade my array and discovered that cc output fell far short of what my panels would be
pushing out.

so guys, if you still have your pwm cc and it's working well for you please hold on to it. don't give in to the marketing
gimmicks of retailers who are only interested in offloading their wares on unsuspecting solar newbies!

PWM or MPPT was a major decision I had to make when starting my offgrid Solar journey. After much thought and research I went with an mppt because I already had a 24v solar panel while my battery system was 12v. Using a PWM meant I would be losing close to half my PV generation potential. Also the distance between my PV and controller at 18meters meant I had to reduce losses and best way to do that was to increase voltage going to cc. Most effective way to do this was use string panel in series again MPPT controller made this a no brainer. The cost of getting an MPPT allowed me save on wires and increased the economic value derived from my system over using a PWM. It all depends on system designs.

Another reason to consider mppt is because most solar panels sold on here are actually grid tired panels. Very few sell true offgrid Solar panels with high VMP. Pv with high VMP ensures there is a buffer better PV voltage and effective battery charge voltage. A panel with VMP of 30.5v would be barely able to charge a 24v battery at 28.8v absorption voltage not to talk of 30+ volt required for equalization. On a hot day a 30v panel will lose voltage to heat. Stringing panels in series to ensure the voltage doubles that of the battery ensures your battery will always get effective charge no matter the weather. A PWM with a high VMP Panel say 20 for a 12v panel and 36 for a 24v panel won't have this voltage loss problem.

In essence it's all about system design and making best of what is available to you. By expensive panels and get a cheaper PVM cc or get expensive mppt and get cheaper PV.

Daboomb:
Like you said, l actually also think FRAME of Door should be installed before Tiling, but the DOOR itself should be fitted after Tilling.
Doing so helps to firmly hold the frame in place while ensuring that the Door Pane has the Right length to reach Up and touch the Tiles tightly to avoid some pests sneaking under the door (like Cockroaches going from Kitchen to Bedroom! )

It's also important to have entrance doors fitted before tiling. The inner doors can be installed after tiling though the frames should be installed.

pranil:
Epever users I need tips and tricks

I just Got EPEVER Tracer 4210 A , SHI 1000 Pure inverter, Wifi Box , USB cable and temp sensor - all 24 Volts. In preparation for my wind turbine experiment, 12 V 150 AH AGM . The idea is to use my excess equipment to power BQ independently and feedback excess power to main house using Ac coupled grid-tied micro inverter

Two 300 watt wind turbines on their way

On first look, I am disappointed on multiple fronts

The Wifi box does not work with inverter but works with charge controller ( both have RS485 com ports)
The USB cable works with Inverter but not with charge controller ( explanation next point)
For PC there is no software for setting monitoring for charge controller ( only android - not even in play store )
For inverter, there is android software but since the wifi box does not work ( not even powers on) no way of checking
No back light on CC at all ! not even with a button

The whole software experience is clunky at best. The hardware looks nicely built through with proper heatsinks and terminals etc.
Managed to make 1.5 KWH from my old 600 watts Chinese no brand panels ( rebuilt junction box, corroded tracks etc.)

The lack of integration between inverter and controller is because the former is actually a clone of popular tier 1 inverter brand (name escapes me as at time of typing) Xantrex. what ever you want to achieve or know about the inverter your finds should be directed towards Xantrex, chances the clone would work as the original including plugin devices and software. Fangpusun makes similar clone, and you can read a detailed review for that here http://www.quan-diy.com/misc/inverters/fangpusun.htm I have written all I knew from the tracer A in by blog in my signature below. Hope it helps

dapsyra:
Yes, it amount to the same power at the point of generation, that is, Panel end but different at the CC end due to cable loss.

Parallel connections will result in higher current, lower voltage. The higher the current, the more the power lost in the cables

Series connection will result in lower current, higher voltage thereby minimising the power lost in the cable.

If you are not using appropriately rated cables for the installation, the cable loss can be very significant.

And saves money on cabling too.

mcTrinity:
I appreciate the contribution...

but why does Mopower inverters bear Sukam logo on them.?
I've even seen the DSP board of mopower 5kva and it bears on it that Sukam "S"-like logo on it. in addition to the one on the external body of the inverter

Anyone can clone another.. They probably source their components from same source as sukam Ala Fangpusun outback / victron. But they have no association with sukam whatsoever. At least sukam guys totally denied them.

mcTrinity:
please, anybody has any idea about Multipower inverters...? heard its a brand of Sukam

Neither of mopower, multipower is a brand of sukam!!! I have spoken to sukam reps and they totally deny such claim which seem to have become gospel even on here. Mopower is some clone of sukam made to ride on the reputation of the latter.

Jamzig1:
That being said.. how about having an Hybrid distribution where both AC and DC are being used... DC to power low wattage and critical loads like LED lights, DC fans and Charging outlets.. CCTV and alarm sensor too which requires constant supply.. then leave the other heavy loads to the AC. Doing this would make you switch on the Inverter only when you need to power these heavy loads. Remember Inverters have self consumption energy which is quite a loss when calculated around the clock.

One of the things I learned while cutting my teeth as a sysadmin is the kiss principle. Keep It Simple Stupid. Same thing applies to offgrid solar. What you are proposing is very complicated and frankly is more hassle with a negative net benefit overall. The problem with low wattage device is they are also low voltage, which means even if a 12v leave the battery before it gets to the led bulb its has lost some voltages to resistance so only about 10 or 11v gets to the led. add that to the issues of fusing and breakers and how much of a mess your connection would be. Then there is the issue of using dc to dc converters which will still lead to conversion loss u were running from...

Inverters are not has bad as u are making, there are units which are 95% efficient and would serve just fine. when u compare the amount of money spent and watts lost to resistance. the former is a better option.

earthrealm:
got the cc from him, he doesnt hv the cable at the moment.

I happen to own such a cable but I rarely use it. If you want I could lend you at your own transportation cost to and fro from abuja. Although I have to warn you. Victron have upped their game and have tried to halt the blatant copy of their product by Fangpusun. They have introduced a killer firmware which gradually kills your fangpusung controller. I have a dead 45/150 fangtron and even fangpusun are aware of this hence why they stopped selling their VE connector cable to discourage their customers from updating the firmware.

Unless you can get hands on the older victron connect software (those released before August 2016 or that is victron connect version up to 2.3) then tough luck because the new firmwares 2.4 upwards will force you to update your firmware to the killer v1.19 without which u won't be able to use the software (I got a way round this though ring me up back channel).

TLDR: The newer victronconnect software has a trojan horse which silently kills fangupsun clones when you use them. This started with v2.4 of the victronconnect. Unless you can get a previous version of the software on the interwebs, I would advice u don't use it.

Jamzig1:
Nice...
Of recent I've been wondering, why can't we have a residential/commercial distribution based on DC only.
These days we now have devices which run internally on DC.. LED Bulbs, Fans like this one you posted, USB charging outlets and even Laptop Adapters with Cigarette lighter plugs(12VDC).
These are low power consuming devices.. There are even DC refrigerators, DC Pressing Irons etc.
Using devices directly on DC reduces the conversion losses from converting from the DC generated by the PV and stored in Batteries to AC (By the Inverter) and then converting back to DC (using Rectifiers) to power our already DC consuming devices...

We have discussed this before: It sounds good on paper but its not practical. DC are low voltage high current devices which means they are prone to voltage loss when transferring high current over a distance ( Ohms law) You would require your house to be wired with very large cables which are just not practical and also very very expensive (money which could be used in buying more battery/solar panels) also DC only house would force you to stick to 12v system which can be very limited and inefficient when you scale most dc appliances have different voltage ratings, from 6v (for clippers, mobile phones etc) to 18v for laptops and 12v for some of the rest. This means you would still need a dc to dc converter hence the conversion loss you are running from would still hit you. Then you have to consider the cost of maintaining the dc appliances. How many people do you reckon can fix a dc fridge, refrigerator, TV.. think of the parts. and consider the high cost of DC appliance (a dc freezer is almost 50% more expensive than its AC equivalent) when you consider all this you will note that what you are proposing will only work for a limited small scale application (like a small barber shop or small offgrid system less than 500w in size) it makes no sense for a large general house hold use

Marpol:
Is there any reliable solar panel installer here? Drop your digits please.

[quote author=desiji post=61483654][/quote](U can check my previous post on nairaland and my blog link below)

DMerciful:
Hi All,

Please who know where I can source for 12v 2000AH battery?
Thanks

talk to juo.

Obimind1:
The batteries that went bad were Gel batteries, but presently my batteries are AGM.

Ahhhhh.. No wonder they died in 8 months. Of all the lead acid battery type. Gel is the most finicky when it comes to charging. Gel batteries are notorious for having low rate of charge and discharge and are very choosy of the type of charger u use and can be damaged with high voltage has you have experienced. In fact most gel batteries cycles between 13.2-14.1 and they tolerate no form of equalization whatsoever.

Let your experience be a cautionary tale for everyone reading this. Research matters alot. If you can't so the research get a competent installer to do it for you. The downside of jumping into solar is getting your hands and pocket burnt. The problem is not mppt or pwm its the fact that u didn't have enough knowledge on battery types and their recommended charge profile. I sold my first controller because it was not capable of properly equalizing my batteries. I got one which had adjustable change profile settings. If u want to go DIY u have to know and understand every single aspect of the game. Battery type and their charge profile, controller Pv cabling load type of inverters every single thing a mistake in one aspect can leave your system failing u in a short time. The 2 batteries I got when I started my offgrid journey are still running going 2 years now and they are doing very great. All those readings did pay off

Obimind1:
Its been over a month now, I lost my batteries and my charge controller(60ah mppt) all at the same time under 8months of usage. It was a tough time for me though, but the truth was that I had no one to run to. I managed to get a set of new batteries which will clock one month on the 19th of this month. I also had to fall back to my 30ah and 20ah pwm charge controller which I dumped sometime ago. Now this are my findings: I noticed that my pwm seem to have an effective cut off strength compared to my mppt cc. My pwm does not exceed 28.2v at peak Sun periods and even when I'm charging my batteries with national grid power(Phcn), but when I was using my mppt I noticed that at peak periods my cc voltage rises up to 30v and every 28 day of the month it shows that its equalizing at this point my battery voltage rises to 32v during peak Sun hours. To cut the long story short I lost my batteries and my precious 60ah mppt cc under eight months. My charge controller started showing (battery OVD). Now I'm starting all over again. I must say I learnt my lessons the hard way. Had I known I would have maintained my pwm which I was using conveniently for over a year b4 going mppt. If I am to go the mppt way again, I have to do a lot of research to know what capacity of mppt cc will be efficient for my 24v set up.

What type of battery are u using. The voltage from the mppt controller is quite high. Even for a flooded acid battery.. (and those can take a beating) 30v at absorption is just too much. The important thing is to buy controllers that allows you regulate charge voltage or one which has preset charge voltage profile which covers the field. Batteries are the Achilles hill of renewable and you have to handle them with care.

makavele:
True i just it saw, well Thankfully i have not
seen the PV exceed 29A on a bright day.
Maybe I am not yet to see very bright and sunny day. I will definitely get another 100Ah
and connect in parallel
Question is should i get the same brand?
Or can i get a different brand!
Can i get a 200ah and hook as parallel?

You should be fine for the most part. At most u can always use up the excess charge current from the controller through opportunity loads in the house. A ceiling fan and TV should bring the charge current down to safe levels for your battery. As Pranil suggested. You might want to stick to 20A as your charge set point.
The battery from all indication seems to be AGM.

Obimind1:
What type of charge controller are you using? If its an mppt what's the capacity (is it a 60a, 45a or 30a.) I'm asking bcus ur set up is similar to mine which is a 24v set up. The only difference is that my two batteries are 200ah each while urs is 220ah. My PV strength is 1.2kw (8pieces of 150watts panel) while urs is 1.8kw. If I should add 2 more(150 watts panels) to give me 1.5kw does it mean that my batteries will be at risk during peak Sun hours?

Am actually using 2 charge controllers and their output is paralleled to the 2 batteries. Each controller is connected to an array panels. Array 1 (960w) is on a ground mount optimally facing south connected to a Fangpusun 45A mppt controller, array 2 (880w) is on the roof facing south west connected to a 100A Fangpusun mppt controller. The system is designed this way to ensure both Pv pick at different times which helps to ensure battery don't get over charged during bulk. It also allows me to diversify access to the sun due to shading which occurs around Oct and Jan every year. Lastly the south facing array allows me to time more from the late afternoon sun.

Dam5reey:
That indicates your 100AH battery will be back to fully Charged within an hour you need to add another 100Ah in parrallel for better backup and DOD

By the way what type of Battery are you using?
My Battery is fully Charged at 12.7 to 12.8, how come you Having 12.6 after 300+ Wh : on 100AH battery?

not exactly true. The charge process of lead acid batteries is not linear. a 100AH battery at 90% full and being charged from a source capable of 30AH might still take 3-4 hours to be fully charged. This is due to the charging stages for batteries. at 90% full, battery's internal resistance builds and the charger has to increase charge voltage and tapper down on the charge current.. this stage of the charging process (non an absorption stage) is the most inefficient and even if your PV are producing more power, the charge controller steps down what is going to the battery and the rest becomes energy potentials of your panels.

I have 2 220AH 12 flooded acid batteries connected in series of 24v while my solar panels are 1.84kw in size, this means at pick and under right conditions my PV can produce above 60A (about 30% of battery amp hour ratings) which could do serious damage to my flooded batteries. I resolved this by balancing things with opportunity loads. The fridge, freezer, Home entertainment systems occasional washing machine, Microwave, all conspire to ensure that not more than 27A enters the battery during bulk stage. These arrangement also allows me to be completely offgrid on afternoons from Jan -Dec (minus July and August). The gross panel over size comes in handle on a cloudy day. It ensures that bad as e bad, my battery gets to float always

pranil:
The batteries like to be charged C10 (max .13C) normally ( so for 100 AH it is 12 amps only). The battery will get killed faster due to high temperatures during charging. better add one more battery in parallel at the earliest

This is figure is through for flooded batteries and gel batteries but that figure does not always apply to AGM which are capable for relatively high charge and discharge rate. Some AGM batteries can take up to 30% of rated amp hours has charge rate.

Obimind1:
That has been my fears too after my batteries failed me under 8 months. Though my set up is a 24v system, I used to turn on my fridge by 8:00am and turn off by 4:30pm. After getting another new sets of batteries just one week ago, I decided not to run my fridge on batteries even though my PV strength is a 1,200 watts. The highest load I use on my batteries presently is my washing machine, and I do that when the sun is at its peak.

The most important aspect (and one which is often ignored / sidelined) is getting a hand on how much electricity you consume and how much you generate. Its not about how many panels/batteries you have. Its simple maths. If you consume more than you generate, your battery would be the one to take the hit and make up for the deficit causing bad things to happen to it.

A fridge or freezer is just a load at the end of the day it uses watts.. this watts are of no difference from that used by your TV or any other appliance in the house. Yes Refrigerator uses relatively high watt appliances and in most cases represent the defining load of most offgrid systems. You can easily run a freezer or fridge on an offgrid setup once you have a proper plan in alignment with how much electricity you can generate while keeping your battery at a minimum 65% state of charge / 35% depth of discharge.

When I started my offgrid journey, I had just 480w panels, Yet I was able to power the freezer for a minimum of 4 hours a day while ensuring that my battery always get to float, and never discharges low 60% state of charge. This was possible because I did an electrical audit and rationed my loads using battery peukert effect to my advantage. My energy consumption gradually increased as my as my generation capacity increased, today I have a panel capacity of 1840w and I have included the fridge to the mix, both fridge and freezer run at a minimum of 8 hours a day - 08:00 - 16:00pm. An I have just 2 220AH batteries. My system runs 24/7 yet my battery voltage never goes below 24.5v in the morning.

The key is getting a hang on your load, spending time to make you loads more efficient (not just using so called energy safers, but actually checking the watts of your appliances. Watts counting matters alot)

designing your system to cycle at 70% battery state of charge hence they won't be any need to waste money/time/energy on unreliable low voltage disconnect systems. If your system is deigned around a low voltage disconnect, then they is something wrong with you design.

My Humble Opinion

panafrican:
Kind of curious people don' t realise they can unveil sensitive information about a country' s national security.

Get educated my friend. Nothing posted in that thread is classified. They are information which every country makes or has made available either via UN mandatory arms transfer disclosures, self disclosure by the country involved or pictures taken from military operations / exercise and made available to the public. This is the norm and trend around the world. They is usually nothing hidden under the sun and in most cases countries do want others to know what arsenal they have so as to serve as a deterance. This is why many countries hold parade and show of force military exercise which are always open to the press. Heck professional military around the world have special Public Relation department whose job is to promote the military, and show case some of it's capabilities. It is important to at least enlighten yourself before coming to make a fool of yourself on the internet.

Nancy4321:
Limited stock of 325W Made in America ( mission solar) Monocrystalline solar panels available for pick up call me on 08187118479

There way things are done around here, you state your price in the open for all to see.

mcci:
Hi Solar Enthusiasts,

Please has any one used PSC Solar Industries panels?

Are they worth buying given it's quite pricey?

What are your experience whether directly or not with the quality of their panels compared to other brands?

Is the bold claim of "Made in UK" real?

Thanks.

Takw the made in UK with a pinch of salt. Same guy behind the company claimed he invented the company's PSC inventers after years of research. Even got a news paper to carry his story when infact the "made in Germany" inverter is nothing but a rebranded powerstar w7 inverter like MUST, Prag and Felicity. Even the manual is same with powerstar word for word. I can't attest to the quality of his solar panels but they are mostly a rebrand of a Chinese Tier 2 producer.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
@BigRovar. Yourself and GeorgeD1 have stoutly defended the reputation of your Su-Kams - in my own experience I rank them as 'okay' inverters - they don't excel in charging amps capacity and they lack ability to select different voltage algorithms for different battery types, I wouldn't confidently load them over 70% their rated capacity and everyone I know has visited service center at least once in a 5 year period.

What is the final verdict? Are there some techniques or practices you follow to derive such good value from your Su-Kam inverters? Do you have some extra protections or limits set on your systems or add-on devices to supplement the base performance?

As Oga george noted, Sukam are mid range and has lots of limitations as you have highlighted. But it is not has bad as many claim on here. Sukam was designed for the Indian market. It was designed to be simple and easy to operate. It was designed to work with batteries that are most popular in India mainly tubular and SMF batteries often manufactured in India. The reason for the low charge rate is that, due to a better power situation in India most people use one battery string with their inverter hence inverters are designed to charge the battery at about 15% of C20 which strikes a balance when charging flooded and agm. For the Indian environment with its less frequent power failures the inverter works perfect.

Lastly very few inverters (not even high end)have the ability to do transfer from grid to inverter in less than 8 milliseconds allowing it to be used in powering computers and network applications without any hiccups.

dsunmade:
Thanks for your answers.
Another question. Is there any way to disable battery charging on a Sukam inverter while retaining the automatic changeover switch when grid power is restored?

Unfortunately you can't disble charging on the sukam. You can however reduce it to a tiny minimum of 2.4A which is what I used during the dry season. This setting is via a dip stick hence u can use it when inverter is off