₦airaland Forum

[quote author=c.fours]I can't offer u what u want. srry
you don't agree with feminism so I will never be able to convince u.

when some feminists were fighting for the right to vote, it didn't make sense to many men (and women) at the time. There is no specific argument that could be made to convince anyone.
Today, however, we take it for granted that a woman can run for political office.
something that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever back in d days.

same with women going to school. schooling was originally intended for boys only. it made no sense for women to go to school. what did they need it for. do they need it for cooking and cleaning etc?
yet I wouldn't be typing here if I didn't attend school. many women's lives don't end in the kitchen like it used to.

I hope u get what I'm tying to say. I can't give u specific stuff because it probably wouldn't make sense. it will be radical. but 50 yrs from now, 100yrs from now. many women will take the rights for granted not realizing that they have feminists to thank for their freedom. those few brave women who did the crazy things first and led the way for other women to do it. like the women who wrote inspiring books and used men's names because only men were allowed to write. like the woman who dressed like a man for decades to practice her profession because only men were allowed to be professionals.

u mentioned maternity leave for women. do you know the feminist history behind it? etc because back in d days once a woman got pregnant, she was fired and not allowed to return. women had to organize to fight to gain the right to maternity leave etc I could go on and on
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/puot0002/3004/2010/02/history-of-maternity-leave-in-the-us.html

u mention rape as an issue facing women. what's your own concrete/ specific plan to prevent it? do you have one?[/quote]ok fair enough.. dont forget if u go into history...women have always run things too
In the Bible there was a judge called Deborah
A great queen in England called Victoria
A warrior leader called Joan
A powerful queen in Spain called Isabel

So women have changed the world believe it or not....

My own is why dont we focus on the now rather than the constant nods to time past

I want my daughter to express herself and personally i would like to know more on what you deem radical for our time

I may or maynot agree with you... but i learn sth new


On the r,ape issue, it is a crime in the land but it is not being enforced
We may need an occupy movement soon to bring this to the attention of the rulers

Beync: I dislike mushroom in sauce, I cant stand d test and aroma.

biolabee got it, ur turn

food themes like the previous poster

i dont like broccoli
i dont like spinach
i love steak

[quote author=c.fours]both. she's an ecofeminist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecofeminism

Maathai is best known for her 1970’s Green Belt Movement, an organization she founded in conjunction with the National Council of Women of Kenya, which promoted environmental conservation and economic development as a means to empower women in the rural areas of Kenya. Through the program, over 30,000 women were taught to plant trees, and fight against deforestation and restore their main source of fuel for cooking.

An activist who fought for freedom and the right to peace and democracy, Maathai endured violence and constant opposition throughout her life's work in Kenya. In a statement announcing her as the 2004 Nobel Peace Prize winner, the Norwegian Nobel Committee said the following: “Maathai stood up courageously against the former oppressive regime in Kenya. Her unique forms of action have contributed to drawing attention to political oppression—nationally and internationally. She has served as inspiration for many in the fight for democratic rights and has especially encouraged women to better their situation”.

In 2005, she was elected the first president of the African Union’s Economic, Social and Cultural Council.
http://www.tnj.com/news/buzz/kenyan-eco-feminist-wangari-maathai-dies[/quote]I get that and i dont deny she was a feminist or not
My point is that her acehievements spoke for her just like Churchill or Roosevelt
What are we known for on earth// what we do not what we say

[quote author=c.fours]can u remind me of the post where I called them 'traitors'?
I don't remember saying that. unless u are quoting me out of context or just plain lying.
I don't view them as traitors. u don't have to come out openly to support something if u don't want to.
I think these women either feel that they will be judged as extremists or they themselves do not understand what feminism means. u don't need to go out burning a bra to be a feminist. all u need is a believe in equal rights for women.
I used to be like that. and my fear of associating with feminism at the time was that I couldn't reconcile it with my christian beliefs. But with increased understanding, I am able to reconcile my beliefs. ex. the bible is a product of its time and it is very clear that women were treated often like children. much closer to the way many muslim societies treat women today as servile and lesser beings than men. If one is able to look past the sexism when reading the bible (ex I got myself a gender neutral bible) and see the scenarios as a product of the time, then it makes sense. of course im older too so I don't read the bible literally like many fundamentalists do.
people are a product of their environment after all.

what r ur questions?[/quote][quote author=c.fours]
equal pay based on qualification is a women's rights issue in America.

again, feminism is just an ideology. there are many women out there who support women's rights but don't want to be called feminist because they are ashamed of the word "feminist" or whatever reason they have.[/quote]I dont need to lie... maybe traitor is a strong word... but i have female friends who believe in human rights but dont believe in feminist dogmas of hypergamy, non - submissiveness and all what is
They are well qualified and have advanced degrees... some take even time off work to focus on their family
There are some like that here on NL

the questions below

Personally what do you stand for

Do you belive in sanctity of marriage

Do you believe in equal rights for male and female

Do you belive males and females have seprate roles to play and are complementary not competitive against each other

Focus on the issue - what is the thrust of feminism what do you hope to achieve and how can this be useful for less privileged people

Not crying for liberties which you already enjoy by being educated or working.

If your goal is hypergamy let's know it

If your goal is single parenting/lezbian coupling and adopt a child let's know it


If your advocacy is for divorce once a woman outearns her man then your ideology is dodgy


How does feminism help social justice

KazeKage1: Kakashi's is an exception as his sharingan enables him to copy over a thousand techniques.

Are you saying the sharingan allows you to use other chakra natures than what you were used to

I never saw itachi use any chakra aside fire nature, genjutsu and the EMS..

i think he had the potential pre - sharingan\

Oro has no csharingan yet can use more than one chakra nature

All due respect why did you post this long thing

Are you trying to explain to me the reason for the feminist movements

I also observed you called those who don't want to be tagged *s feminists 'traitors' - is that how you see it we vs the world

I asked you a series of questions you've not answered any

Beync: Oh i got it

I like french toast bread
I like Steak in mushroom sauce
I likee Coleslaws

2

We are digressing

Women worked in the factories for the war effort

Why would they go back and do nothing

I aksed you some q earlier



[quote author=c.fours]yea. but the intended recipients were mostly men. ex GI bill, employment etc. in fact, after WWII, you saw massive propaganda directing women to leave the workforce and go back into the kitchen so that men can find job. this is actually part of what led to the second wave of feminism in the 50s and 60s.


hahaha feminism is not the only ideology out there.
New Deal is a liberal ideology as opposed to conservative ideology that believes in "small government"
new deal was an expansion of government power in d lives of d people. Most Americans are still divided based on this issue till today infact that is d biggest ideological battle among americans: democrats vs republicans.[/quote]Yet reagan increased taxes like a democrat

All that is BS

The same congress voted for TARP which further impoverished the american populace - male and female

They are all thieves

Back to the issue though

I get this but I go back to my first point

Is she recognised as a feminist or an environmentalist

I believe in equal pay based on qualifications, does that make me a feminist





[quote author=c.fours]Upon her return to Kenya, Maathai dropped her Christian name, preferring to be known by her birth name, Wangari Muta.[16] When she arrived at the university to start her new job, she was informed that it had been given to someone else. Maathai believed this was because of gender and tribal bias.
Maathai continued to teach at Nairobi, becoming a senior lecturer in anatomy in 1974, chair of the Department of Veterinary Anatomy in 1976 and associate professor in 1977. She was the first woman in Nairobi appointed to any of these positions.[23]During this time, she campaigned for equal benefits for the women working on the staff of the university, going so far as to attempt to turn the academic staff association of the university into a union, in order to negotiate for benefits. The courts denied this bid, but many of her demands for equal benefits were later met.[24]

In addition to her work at the University of Nairobi, Maathai became involved in a number of civic organizations in the early 1970s. She was a member of the Nairobi branch of the Kenya Red Cross Society, becoming its director in 1973. She was a member of the Kenya Association of University Women.


^
all of these was putting strain on her marriage because her husband was telling her to stop her activism.
Deep down at the root of all Wangari's work is women's issue. Even in her environmental work, she focused on women.[/quote]

[quote author=c.fours]ex. the same Roosevelt u r talking about is mostly known for his NEW DEAL policy. If you know anything about New Deal, u will not say what u said that Roosevelt is not known for ideology. Of course he is!
I don't live in England so I can't say much on d legacy of Churchill.[/quote]The new deal provided for better opportunity for americans,health care and social justice

Women benefitted from it

I raised the iSsue to say people should be recognised based on what they do and not what they are called

That does not mean he did not have an ideology

My point is this;

Is she recognised because she is a feminist or because she put environmental issues on the front burner

If it's the latter - perfect because she found out that land was a key issue and was needed to fight poverty in her country but if you insist it's the former then feminism is an ever growing meld of causes that picks any thing suitable or sorry, opportunistic.

Obama signed medicare which among other things will help less privileged women and female senior citizens..

Is he now a feminist too

Hilary C after the death of the libyan ambassador drafted in new security protocols for all diplomats based abroad - females among them

Is she now showing feminist tendencies

Note what I've been saying - social justice

If a woman stops the deforestation of the Amazon or the degradation of the Niget Delta was it about feminism



[quote author=c.fours]well, u need to provide more on what you are trying to say about Wangari Maathai. Are you trying to imply that she wasn't a feminist. I don't see your point. Be more explicit.

Ideology is just a set of core believes that inform ur choices and decisions.
ex. all christians believe in Jesus. this is an ideology. Are all christians saints? are all christians martyrs? are all christians going to be famous envangelists? NO. but those famous superstar christians like Billy Graham will not exist without following. Without the millions of christians who support them and share d same ideology, those figureheads will be nothing.

Waangarii Maathai will be nothing without the 600,000 women who followed her and supported her in her cause. the govt would have taken her down very easily or even killed her if she didn't have support (she also got a lot of support from european countries)

Churchhill and Roosevelt were in position of power (at the right place and the right time - WW1 (or was it II) to make decisions that had great influence. they were presidents. they had d power. although the people voted for them based on ideology. just as Obama was voted into office based on democratic ideology of the people. and they had to proove that they are faithful to the ideology otherwise, they would lose confidence in d masses.

There are the brave ones among us like Wangari Maathai who was beaten, threatened with ra.pe and imprisoned several times by her government for not behaving like a "proper african woman" she didn't have great power compared to her oppressors yet she stood on and mobilized almost a million kenyan women to join her cause. Chuchhill or Roosevelt did not do anything spectacular other than be in the right place at the right time. I don't think u can compare the two.
there is ideology in all of it.[/quote]

SniperInADiaper: ^^^ and a good wife strives to be all of those things

Excellent

7 european finals no win is not easy..

My heart goes to you the eagles

pleep: females have an instinctive bias in favor of other females over males, thats what causes the views you are describing.

Someone like c.fours will say w/e for the sake of argument but there are phychological factors that explain this mentality

CoRrect.. In my opinion,This is the first and major flaw of this ideology

It starts well but cannot follow through

In the zeal to carry the ideology, they forget that their own sons will be shafted in the next generation

Cfours.. Note that the kenyan lady's marriage also failed

pleep: Feminism is not the solution to this. Im assuming you think the best thing to do is to split assets after a divorce?

Well that sounds good in theroy... but it causes problems that end up outweighing the issue it was trying to solve. Primary, this causes males to shy away from marriage and women to unchain their hypergamous instincts... in the united states an average of 75% of divorces are initiated by females the number gets as high as 80% in the states with the most feminist divorce laws.

These issue occurs because females naturally gravitate towards wealthier partners, while males do the opposite, and thus is a divorce situation usually stand to make a financial gain.

....Resulting in more out of wedlock births, abortions, broken homes, suicides etc. Interestingly after ancient rome passed such laws they eventually started passing bachelor taxes to try and force men to get married.

So what is the solution? Personal responsibility... We should expect women to have a plan for their life and not hinge all their ambitions on marring a wealthier man. This is not too much to ask, especially in the u.s where females actually are starting to academically surpass men

Perfect bro interestingly the fore fathers had a solution for this

Whether a child or the mother is in the house or not, once she is yours you were responsible

Once the construct of monogamy and it's deadlier sibling serial monogamy came up.. Kasala bursted

All this divorce settlement ish never was back in the days and women were taken care of

If I'm a multi millionaire Of cos if I'm gonna marry and I know one lady is gonna cash in .. Imma shield my assets or do prenup

That is perfectly natural

[quote author=c.fours]lol. feminism is an ideology. it's not an offering.
it becomes a movement when many feminists come together and organize around an issue.

ex. a person can be christian on their own. they don't necessarily have to be an envangelist. also christians form a church when many christians come together to gather for worship. this organization, or coming together, is necessary for big actions like fighting a government policy or something too big for one woman or man to do by themselves.

just as there are many churches out there, there are many feminist groups or women's rights issues and focus out there. whether environmental, social, economic, political or what have u. people usually join which one matters most to them. in ur case, u seem to be most concerned about rape issue ie social/sexual issue.

as a scenario, if u organized a group of people and found a way to lobby d government to create a law to impose harsh punishment on rapist + provide social intervention/resources for rape vicims, that will be a breakthrough for women in Nigeria and u will be a feminist champion.[/quote]Lol.. I'm particularly incensed about rape now because it's getting so bad especially with the insecurity

From what you said it's a morphing cause.. Hmmm
This could make it politically expedient and convienient depending on who is who


In addition why can't women tell themselves the truth if another woman does bad

A man cheats - the man is a devil
A woman cheats - the man is a devil for causing her to cheat

Personally what do you stand for

Do you belive in sanctity of marriage

Do you believe in equal rights for male and female

Do you belive males and females have seprate roles to play and are complementary not competitive against each other

Let's start from there

Wangari Maathai was awarded the 2004 Nobel Peace Prize for her "contribution to sustainable development, democracy and peace".[59] She had received a call from Ole Danbolt Mjos, chair of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, on 8 October informing her of the news.[60][61] She became the first African woman, and the first environmentalist, to win the prize.

More from the wiki

For me it's not about what you say but what you do

Nasser was a dictator yet he ruled justly

Churchill, Roosevelt were wartime leaders but were not known for ideologies but what they achieved

Madam Theresa helped lives ditto moremi who helped her people from slavery

If that is feminism, then I don't know

Q again - how can you help a man's daughter or sister so she is safe from molesters,inheritance thieves, work place discrimination

In addition to her work at the University of Nairobi, Maathai became involved in a number of civic organizations in the early 1970s. She was a member of the Nairobi branch of the Kenya Red Cross Society, becoming its director in 1973. She was a member of the Kenya Association of University Women. Following the establishment of the Environment Liaison Centre in 1974, Maathai was asked to be a member of the local board, eventually becoming the chair of the board. The Environment Liaison Centre worked to promote the participation of non-governmental organizations in the work of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), whose headquarters was established in Nairobi following the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment held in Stockholm in 1972. Maathai also joined the National Council of Women of Kenya (NCWK).[25] Through her work at these various volunteer associations, it became evident to Maathai that the root of most of Kenya's problems was environmental degradation

From the wiki page

[quote author=c.fours]feminism is very broad. women (and men) fighting or doing something positive to improve the situation of women are feminists. no matter how small or big.
ex. in Kenya, u had a lady called wangari maathai who lived her life to improve d life of women and fight for social justice for women in her country (with her green belt movement she used to mobilize women) despite fierce opposition from d government and other men who were threatened by her. she was imprisoned several times. she became the first african woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize in 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wangari_Maathai

Another woman in Asia is Aung San Suu Kyi. She was fighting for the liberation of her country. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1991 and was released from house arrest (after 21 yrs!!) just 2 yrs ago.
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2011/04/29/aung-san-suu-kyi-speaks-to-women-from-burma/[/quote]I know of the kenyan lady who was associated with environmentalism
Is that feminism now

The burmese lady is fighting for democarcy against the military
Is that feminism

I believe we should manage the worlds resources and manage emissions

I believe in democracy also.. Am I a feminist?

pleep: Notice how you articulated your point 100X more clearly and logically than the so called feminists over there... you points actually make sense.

Reading through my last few posts i notice that i have strayed away from my original thesis.

The sole point i am trying to make here is the refutation of 'patriarchy theory' one of the core tenants of feminism, that states that a lopsided or oppressive burden was placed on females though-out history not true... as well as the false statistics feminist organizations put out such as the wage gap etc.

The rest is subjective, and i'm not trying to get into that.

However, i still want you to explain to me the relation between feminism and a man leaving his wife for a younger woman.

Good of you to admit we have all derailed a bit
I joined this thrad to learn more about feminism and to know if it's adherents really have anything to offer the jury is still out

What I meant is this

In some cases if a marriage dissolves after a bit of time here, socially the man can chase out his wife with no settlement because women have traditionally been seen as chattel

Storie abound

Or if the man dies, his familuy will sell off the house and leave the widow and kids with nothing

I'm interested in social justice

Feminism can be too caustic at times for my tatste as they don't criticise women even of they are wrong that is why I'm asking her what does feminism offer

I want specifics not vague stuff

My female colleagues earn the same pay as I do because they have the qualifications as I do so I don't see any wage gap here.

They are promoted at the same rate if not above sef

They get maternity leave,etc

So what are you offering cfours

Kingslaw: She must be respectful with five years experience in cooking,must have the qualities of fatile soil to bear children.abeg check the "bear"well.

Kolo.. So for you na to cook and born pikin.. You no kuku get wahala

SniperInADiaper: ^^^^

A good wife knows all of those things.

Knowing and doing are two different things

I love the below post
In my observations, the key challenges are submission to husband especially when they now outearn their man and inlaws wahala

greatgod2012: The qualities of a good wife, hhhhhmmmmm, they are so many, and it takes the grace of God and determination to be one.
However, proverbs 31:10upward give us a clue into the qualities of a good wife.
It starts with a question.......who can find a virtuos wife? For her price is far more above jewels.
I have tried to summarise the qualities in such a way that it is understandable and acceptable and practicable for all wives and wives-to-be.
Now lets go......
A good wife........
*Must be her hubby's confidence and companion.
*Must be good to her hubby and children.
*Must be trustworthy, reliable and responsible.
*Must be industious, hardworking and diligent.
*Must be submissive to her hubby.
*Must be intelligent, wise and tactful.
*Must be an helpmate to her hubby.
*Must know how to cook/prepare delicacies for her family.
*Must be financialy independent.
* Must not cheat on her hubby.
*Must support her hubby's dreams and aspirations.
*Must be good in bedmatics.
*Must be conservative and creative.
*Must always look after the family needs and wants.
*Must be full of wisdom, i.e talk and act with wisdom.
*Must be beautiful internally.
*Must be the type of woman her hubby will always want to be with.
*Mustnt be a troublesome woman or a street-fighter or an abusive woman.
*Must not bring shame to her hubby or her children in any form.
*Must be peaceful with everyone.
*Must be humble and not proud.
*Must be prayerful and watchful.
*Must be multi-facet, i.e must be able to be a good wife to her hubby, a good mother to her children, a good daughter to her parent, a good friend to her friends, a good sister to he siblings, without any conflicting with another.
Finally, must treat her hubby the way she want him to treat her.
Above all.........a good wife must be God-fearing.
May God help us all.

[quote author=c.fours]ur post definitely made a lot of sense.
just d last sentence only was questionable. I guess I associated u too much with pleep monkey over here so I didn't read ur post properly. my fault.

u said "our women need protection" but I don't see how men will automatically wake up one day and decide to "protect" women unless they have feminist sympathies or feel that women need more rights. women should also be active part of the process because is about them anyway. and they are not children. they are adults.[/quote]Statements should be dissected on it's own merit

I know you guys are passionate about what you believe in but the reality or truth is somewhere in between

I agree with your second paragraph 100 percent.

We all have daughters or sisters and would not like to have them assaulted but there needs be a push or social movement to protect them, protect the widows

Just last year a state signed a law mandating sharing inheritance equally among sons and daughters

For me I don't see why not but historically females are not due for inheritance because they are married out so I get where that is coming from

But I see it more from, my grand kids are mine whether from my son or daughter so they are all goin to benefit from me

If it's feminism that will help with some form of social justice .. Good but all too often there are other motives at play

@c.fours
Now you pick only one thing from my post and harp on that yet call my post illogical?!

SMH

Is there no ra.pe in the US

Focus on the issue - what is the thrust of feminism what do you hope to achieve and how can this be useful for less privileged people

Not crying for liberties which you already enjoy by being educated or working.

If your goal is hypergamy let's know it

If your goal is single parenting/lezbian coupling and adopt a child let's know it


If your advocacy is for divorce once a woman outearns her man then your ideology is dodgy


How does feminism help social justice

Interesting

Cfours they are other things in my post and suddnely the whole logic makes no sense

You guys amaze me



Pleep I'm not a molester but there needs be a concerted effort to highlight female gender issues here in naija

Is the west policies ra.pe unfriendly YES! But still one guy captured 3 ladies for ten years

Nigeria is not yet there so if a group of people can help push policies for social justice and are called feminists I will welcome it because I have daughters and sisters who need all the protection they can get

Why will widows and their children be disinherited by their in laws


I think I should step back and let all y'all dance your dance

#Ghostmode

Lol at sentiments

That is life.. Same way iker got his break from an injury to canizares cesar sanchez and never looked back

We always pray in life to get an opportunity and luck or karma or god to help our efforts

I hope rosell can do the deal
With good grooming, that boy can be the next casillas/zubizaretta

Cfours

SeemS your arguments are more suited pro west

I don't want to believe because a woman earns more than a man and he is not as gender role adaptable as his caucausian/western counterpart the soln is then single parenting

You made statements based on your own world view but here in naija where I live and work most of the males I know change diaper, wash clothesn drop kids off at school etc so where is this mythical big ego comes from

Don't use that to color black males

Specify to AA males

Also look around you people that you know personally are they like that

Your brothers or male cousins

@pleep
If a woman is chased out here for a younger wife, she is chased out with nothing

If her husband dies, she and the kids are left with nothing

Girl child literacy is still low especially in tthe north

Ra.pe incidents are rampant

Our women need protection

thegoodjoehunt: De Gea's growth at Man Utd is still shocking to me. I never knew he would be this good. Massive growth for the young lad.

He is.. Remember he benched sergio asenjo another top keeper
He won EL in 2011 then came to england

You know we discussed about coyrtois too.. I hope barca can land the guy

Shekpe has turnbull and cech is still the god father

tayoccu: there has to bean affinity, but how ever there are "bottom of the barrel" jutsus which almost anybody can perform ^{(which is actually what shikamaru requested for)}.
i'm sure even lee performed that jutsu .



Kakashi can only use 4 (which i believe is due to obito's organ/chakra in his body), it's kakuzu that uses 5 elements.

guess its wind he cant do...

[quote author=I.Joan]1. I am a feminist.
2. I love football.
3. I love mathematics.[/quote]\

3

excellent points the good joe... pls we are primarily footie lovers lets not let affliations blind this

Fans tend to be too emotional when accessing players

Lukaku was labelled a flop so was de Gea by utd fans who dont watch any lig aside theirs

pleep: I'm not "inconsiderate to the other side" at all.... As little as two years ago i actually believed most of the feminist memes that i am arguing against here. It was through research and discussions with more informed people that i changed my views.

Opinions are worthless, no one should be arguing based on their arbitrary opinions, why do we live in a society were people think their baseless claims should be taken seriously? ...The fact of the matter is there are not two sides to the truth, if someone tells me the sky is red that is not an opinion that deserves respect. It is a false conjecture based on false information that needs to be stopped.

The posters here defending feminism have not even attempted to defend their ideology past the superficial level (they dont even seem to know what their ideology is) ... the fact remains that the vast majority of feminist statistics and memes are based in half truths or out-right lies; wage-gap, 1 in 4 rape, patriarchy theory etc.

Granted,,,,then the solution is to seek some form of social justice
I guess most of u guys are in the West
But Here in naija some of the conditions that cause this ideology to thrive still exist

But i dont think single motherhood as cfours advocates is the way to go

KazeKage1: Did anyone else miss the obvious?

It seems anyone can perform just about any jutsu if they know the hand seals EVEN if they don't have affinity for the element.

wondered abt that but remember kakashi though he primarily a lightening fellow can use the 5 natures