Janosky:


Proverbs8:22

"Lord Jehovah created* me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works". *


Bros, what is the meaning of Hebrew Qanah in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22 ?

Triune pagan deity devotees, Continue deceiving yourselves

Bros do you agree that it was wisdom speaking in Proverb 8? I know why I am asking because I have read you guys article and I know what you people wrote about Proverb 8.

Are you going to deny like maximus your brother that it was not wisdom speaking in Proverb 8.

Janosky:


Proverbs8:22

"Lord Jehovah created* me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works". *


Bros, what is the meaning of Hebrew Qanah in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22 ?

Triune pagan deity devotees, Continue deceiving yourselves

Bros, Qanah also means possess are you aware?

DappaD:


You are a SCAMMER Mr bloodofthelamb sir!
How convenient of you to skip the verse 15 of that chapter which calls Jesus the “firstborn of all creation.”

Is the Almighty God Jehovah a creation?
Please don't be stupid

Thanks for the scammer tag but you can keep it anyway. Now back to topic, you guys should always know that context is king. The word translated firstborn is the Greek word "prototokos" which can mean different things eg preeminence.

David was made firstborn in Psalm 89:27-- I will also appoint him my firstborn, most exalted of the kings of the earth. David was not the firstborn of his Father in fact, he was the youngest of them all. So my dear the firstborn in this context doesn't mean that Jesus was created, it rather means that Jesus has preeminence over all creation because he created them. Colossians 1:16 should give you a better understanding.

DappaD:


Noo noo don't try to twist everything to make JWs look bad biko.
The above is what you and your trinity cohorts have been insinuating ever since the start of this thread—except you're not bright enough to realise this.

Jehovah's Witnesses from their in-depth study of the Bible, together with other Scriptures such as John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17 and Revelation 3:14, have come to understand that the writer of Proverbs 8 had somebody in mind when he was inspired by Jehovah to put his thoughts in writing—that person being the first creature that God created—Jesus Christ(archangel Michael).
We know that Jehovah God has always existed from eternity and He has always been wise (Psalm 93:2, 104:24)—that's why we can't classify the wisdom at Proverbs 8 to be an abstract form of wisdom—rather that chapter is referring to a person by the name of Jesus Christ(the archangel Michael)


It is you and your trinity friends who've been saying that God hasn't always been wise. Don't try to twist it.

All those scriptures you put up there didn't prove that God created Jesus Christ. It's highly impossible that God created Jesus through Jesus because the same Colossians 1:16 says, For by(through) Him(Jesus) all(all means all with no exception) things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible (nothing was exempted here) whether thrones or dominion or principalities or power. All(again "all" is being reemphasized) things were created through Him and for Him.

It is either you guys have comprehension issues or you guys are playing the devils advocate. If God really created Jesus at the beginning as you people believe then, it will be He created Him through Him.

DrLiveLogic:

Thanks.

LMAO. Only JWs like Maximus69 and Janosky with all the wisdom they have believe that God had wisdom from time immemorial to create but he had to first create Wisdom(Jesus) to help him create. Confused lots. Their god was either lacking wisdom and hence a foolish god who despite his foolishness was still able to create wisdom that he didn't have or their god is jobless and creating wisdom he already had to help him create. Despicable!


Thank you guys for saving me stress. I wanted to do exactly this later. These people's beliefs are so irrational and they call those who really believe the bible, irrational. What a commendation from them. LMAO!

They're foolish, irrational and blind. There only line of defense is to claim that the one speaking or is portrayed speaking isn't wisdom which is fraudulent because from the beginning of Proverb 8 it is clear who is speaking.

Janosky:


Proverbs8:22

"Lord Jehovah created* me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works". *


Bros, what is the meaning of Hebrew Qanah in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22 ?

Triune pagan deity devotees, Continue deceiving yourselves

So you are saying there was a time in the existence of your Jehovah that he was foolish and unwise until he produce and created wisdom for himself.

Maximus69:


Your PERSONAL opinion Sir!

Jesus (Michael) in his prehuman existence is the one speaking not some imaginary wisdom Sir!

There was never a time God began possessing WISDOM as an attributes, it has always been his own, just like all other attributes like POWER, JUSTICE, LOVE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS and many more.

The person speaking @ Proverbs 8:22-31 is a separate entity telling us the part he played during creation that's all! John 1:1-5

It was Trinitarians who misinterpreted John 1:1 where they rendered it "and the word was God" instead of "and the word was a god"

But all these is just paperwork arguement Sir, go and make use of the wisdom your God possessed to unite all of you just as Michael (Jesus) prayed for his followers saying "they should be one" as in having the same line of thought! John 17:21-23

Jehovah's Witnesses who claims that Jesus is angel Michael have succeeded in forming one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers, whereas LOOK! Politics and Racism is devastating all other religions! Luke 11:23

mischievous I must say. Proverb 8 is all about wisdom. The writer here personified it and Jehovah witness always used this text as a proof of the creation of Jesus Christ which unsurprisingly is the wisdom of God according to Scripture.

Go and meditate upon your reply to me and the scale will fall of your eyes. By the way, you are right wisdom has always being God's own and He never created it as your group is insinuating.

Maximus69:


Just go and read only Proverbs 8:22 alone using different versions of the Bible then come back and tell us if the person speaking wasn't part of the creation!

You are simply saying that there was a time in the existence of God that He was without wisdom. This is the implication of your theology. Jehovah witness is simply saying that wisdom which is one of God is not eternal as He is.

You are simply saying that God was simply foolish and without wisdom until he created and produce it. You are saying that God's wisdom is not eternal as God is. We all can agree that wisdom is the one speaking in Proverb 8 or do you disagree? If this is so, then God is not self sufficient.

Emusan:


Lying liar! He didn't even know his own demonic translation has the word MYSELF

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I (Yahweh) stretched out the heavens BY MYSELF, And I (Yahweh) spread out the earth. Who was with me?"



BEFORE HIS WORKS OF OLD....wo the speaker can't be the first created when he's already exists before the first work begins.



You're still drowning in your delusions.

Was God lying in Isaiah that He did it ALONE and BY HIMSELF and also in Job that "when I"?

Why will God say such when in reality someone was there helping Him?



Isn't your WISDOM the master worker of whatever you do?

Can you do anything without your wisdom?

Jehovah witness are hell bent on believing their own lies or they simply have comprehension issue. The person who was speaking was before Gods earlier creation which means he cannot be a created being.

DrLiveLogic:



Blabbermouth, I don't know what more you want me to do. Questions #3 -#9 are clearly outlined in my last post. #1 & #2 are in my second to last post on your thread.

If you don't wanna answer the questions #1-#9, cause you can't for now, it's fine. My aim is to show you the loopholes in your theology. So just go on and give it a further thought. Maybe when I open a thread on the subject, we would look at some blind spots.

Well detailed.

DappaD:


You ignored the rest of my question. Can you vouch for all your church members that they believe in the same things as you do? Or everyone has his own different beliefs?

Which of your question did I ignore? Kindly call me back to it. First let me ask you this same question that you are asking me. Can you vouch for all your co members that they believe in what you believe?

I see no meaning in your question.

---

haekymbahdx:
Same Jesus said whosoever believe him will become one with him and the father.

John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power

Allah SWT said:

"And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 49)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

Question 1 Since father being in Jesus makes him God then does Jesus being in his followers make them God?

Are you God?

Question 2 Who is the greater and mightier Jesus or Father?

John 14
28 You heard Me tell you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you [really] loved Me, you would have been glad, because I am going to the Father; for the Father is greater and mightier than I am. ( note the word mightier so who is almighty God)

Allah SWT said:

"They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth? And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent."
(QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 17)

Our destiny is being like the Father and the Son and yes we are gods. We didn't choose to be, He chooses this for us. Are we not made in His image, form and likeness? Is He not our Father? Then how can we be something else from Him?

God is not in any form of superiority contest with his Son and likewise the Son with the Father. Jesus who was in the form of the Father humbled himself and took upon himself the image of a servant out of love. He clothed himself in humanity(flesh) in other to save humanity. The Father was greater than the Son because for a while the Son willingly out of love took on the place of a servant.

And don't be in a hurry to forget that the Father whom you reverence so much has given all authority to the Son. The Father also has command all to honour the Son as you would honour Him but you guys are going against the Father's will by refusing to honour the Son. John 5:23-24

[quote author=haekymbahdx post=93225571]God(Allah)[/quote

But my Bible also told me Jesus the Word created all things as well. In fact John without mincing words categorically stated that nothing was created that was not created by Him. (John1:3).... If Jesus was a created being as the Jehovah witness like to claim, then there is a problem somewhere because God cannot create Jesus through Jesus. It is common sense now.

The Scripture clearly stated that God made all things through or by Jesus that nothing (nothing means absolutely nothing) come into reality without the agency of my beloved Jesus.

DappaD:


Please what is the name of the church where you worship?
And are you sure a 100% of your church members have this same mentality as yours?
Or this is just your personal opinion?

I as a person is the living tabernacle (Church) of God. But I join the the believers of God in worshipping and fellowshipping at True Freedom in Christ Assembly worldwide.

haekymbahd:
Really where did he say he is God. Was it not the same Jesus who said

John 20
17 Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me [do not hold Me], for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brethren and tell them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.

Jesus said

"Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 51)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


Who is the God of christ the messiah?

Let's do a little quiz. Who created all things?

haekymbahd:
Really where did he say he is God. Was it not the same Jesus who said

John 20
17 Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me [do not hold Me], for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brethren and tell them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.

Jesus said

"Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 51)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


Who is the God of christ the messiah?

The Scripture is replete with verse where Jesus stated His oneness and union with the Father yet you guys sticks with those ones that suit your agenda. When we talk about "Trinity " you guys vehemently kick against it. Jesus never denied He has a Father.

Kekereekun123:
start saying you will be richer than dangote. Lets see if it would happen

The tongue is a propeller. Wants you start saying it, it will enable you to actions.

CAPSLOCKED:
THE ONLY THINGS A TONGUE DOES ARE THE THINGS IT IS BIOLOGICALLY BUILT TO DO. EVERY OTHER SUPERSTITIOUS AND SPIRITUAL THINGS YOU'VE LISTED ARE FALSE CLAIMS.

Force claims to you now.

Maximus69:


So what is the correlation between the topic of discussion and your quotation?

Moses and Jesus had a lot in common is what you want to debunk, so quote the scriptures that says otherwise or relax and learn!

Of course, Mose and Jesus has a lot in common just like the lamb used for sacrifice in the old testament has a lot in common as well. That is why he is called the lamb of God.
Adam and Jesus has a lot in common as well that is why He is called the last Adam, but all this does not take away the truth that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Maximus69:
Our people don return from market!

For your information the guy you're quoting is a Muslim so if you have something tangible to say go ahead and answer his questions, we don't want emotional blackmail and there is no more hiding behind a finger expecting right thinking persons to join you in shouting "foul!" when your claims are exposed as false!

You guys are the same in reasoning now. Both Muslim and Jehovah witness are related in believe.

DappaD:


I'll try not to give a generic answer so I'll go straight to the point—

The Messiah or Anointed one(Jesus Christ) is subject to Jehovah God the Most High over the whole earth (Psalm 2:2, 83:18, 1Corinthians 15:27-28, Revelation 3:21)
Moses, a servant of Jehovah prophesied with regards to the coming of another of Jehovah's servant (Deuteronomy 18:15,18). This turned out to be Jesus the Messiah who is the Son of the Most High God(John 1:45, 6:14, Luke 1:31-33, Acts 3:22, 7:37)

So the Bible does make a clear distinction between Jehovah God and Jesus, in that the God of Moses is Jehovah (Exodus 3:15, Deuteronomy 6:4) and the God of Jesus is also Jehovah (Matthew 4:10, 6:9, 22:37, John 17:3, 20:17)

Abraham rejoiced to see my day Jesus said, Before Abraham was I AM!

Jesus is the I AM that I AM that appeared to Moses at the burning bush. From Adam, Enoch, Moses, Joseph, David etc all are shadows of Jesus. They all point us to Jesus, the center of it all.

haekymbahd:
Why did you say Jesus is God of moses when they were both sent to preach torah and gospel by the true/real God?

Father that Jesus was refering to does he have a particular name of his or he also bears christ?

John 17

1 WHEN JESUS had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify and exalt and honor and magnify Your Son, so that Your Son may glorify and extol and honor and magnify You.
2 [Just as] You have granted Him power and authority over all flesh (all humankind), [now glorify Him] so that He may give eternal life to all whom You have given Him.

3 And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, [/b]and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.

4 I have glorified You down here on the earth by completing the work that You gave Me to do.

5 And now, Father, glorify Me along with Yourself and restore Me to such majesty and honor in Your presence as I had with You before the world existed.

[b]6 I have manifested Your Name [I have revealed Your very Self, Your real Self] to the people whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have obeyed and kept Your word.



Deutronomy 6
13 You shall [reverently] fear the Lord your God and serve Him and swear by His name [and presence].

14 You shall not go after other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who are round about you;

15 For the Lord your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and He destroy you from the face of the earth.

Jehovah witness spotted. The only reason the Pharisees plotted and eventually killed Jesus is because they rejected the idea that Jesus is indeed the God that their ancestors worshipped and prayed to.

Notatribalist:
Lol.you don't understand. I am very OK now,no health challenges..So I have to stay off masturbation to keep the health problem far away from me..If I am Hot I knw how to get sex...Masturbation is a No go area for me.

. Glory be to God!

MuttleyLaff:
I reiterate that angels aren't in any sense, sons of God. Period

It wasn't angels, in Genesis 6:2&4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1 or even Job 38:7 that are called sons of God, but it is peculiar human beings that are.

Now if in circa Genesis 6:2&4 there were sons of God and the daughters of men, then there equally would have been daughters of God and the sons of men.

As for Job 38:7, reading the verse contextually, shows it is talking of the creation, where the celestial being sun and moon are the sons of God. The "the morning stars" and "the sons of God", in Job 38:7, are metaphors, respectively for constellations & the sun and moon

Do you know that, God, is called the Father of lights? (i.e. Father of the constellation, the sun and the moon)

Hmmmmm, making a lot of sense.

Notatribalist:
I was forced to stop by the health challenges I suffered as a result of it..If I dare masturbate today I must suffer backpain,eyes pain and blurring vision. serious headache for over a week..And the tiredness that follows is something else.

I bet you will return to it if the health challenges goes away today. The best way to get rid of this ungodly habits is to come to the realisation that we are dead to it through Christ Jesus, then little by little the desire and urge to indulge in them will begin to ware of.

Ritzy10:
Drama as church members beat ‘the devil and his demons’ with sticks.

The video below shows some women in a rural setting beating the ground with sticks as they pray out loud.

They are believed to be religious fanatics who think beating the ground with sticks will eliminate the devil and his demons and also solve their problems.

Watch the video HERE

Ignorance of the word on display. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. You can only defeat the devil by reminding him of his defeat at the cross.

Kobojunkie:
I think I saw that ridiculousness as a child too in deeper life.... It was meant to scare people to God but that is useless and wicked. I saw the very same movie years later, and have since fallen in love with the horror genre as a result.

Anyone who uses fear to turn people into God is not of God. Why? Because God did not come to scare people to Himself. He came for those who are tired of the world and its ways. No man should use fear to engage any other man in the name of God. That in itself is wickedness

I concur. Fear should never be a tool for Evangelism!

judedwriter:


Yes, God will never turn His back to us because of our sins, but if we die in our sins, we are eternally separated from Him in a most discomforting place called hell.... God forbid!

That means Christ died in vain. Let's face it from time to time we will always miss the mark. God in his mercy is not counting our sins against us because he has counted it upon Jesus (our Passover Lamb).

judedwriter:
If the devil could tempt Jesus, who had the anointing without measurement, why wouldn't he tempt us as well?

Again if God turned His back on Jesus when He became sin for us on the cross, that prompted Jesus to cry out:

"My father, my father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Why won't God turn His back on us to enter heaven if we live comfortably in sin?

. God won't turn his back on us because of our sin... "He forsook Jesus that he might not forsake us."

MuttleyLaff:
Hi, I come in peace, not to fight

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and afterward as well, when the sons of God had sexual relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown (i.e. a gibborim, on the earth, meaning one who magnifies himself, behaves proudly, a tyrant, who is bold, audacious)"
- Genesis 6:4

"¹This is the account of Noah’s sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, who also had sons after the flood
⁶The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
⁸And Cush was the father of Nimrod, who began to be a mighty one (i.e. a gibborim, on the earth, meaning one who magnifies himself, behaves proudly, a tyrant, who is bold, audacious)
⁹He was a mighty hunter (i.e. a gibborim, in defiance, bold disobedience) before the LORD so it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the LORD."
- Genesis 10:1,6,8-9

"¹⁰Before the Lord gave the Moabites their land (i.e. one of Lot's sons, born of incest with his daughters), a large and powerful tribe lived there. They were the Emim, and they were as tall as the Anakim.
¹¹The Moabites called them Emim, though others sometimes used the name Rephaim for both the Anakim and the Emim."
- Deuteronomy 2:10-11

²⁰Before the Ammonites conquered the land (i.e. the second of Lot's sons, born of incest with his daughters) that the Lord had given them, some of the Rephaim used to live there, although the Ammonites called them Zamzummim.
²¹The Zamzummim were a large and powerful tribe and were as tall as the Anakim. But the Lord helped the Ammonites, and they killed many of the Zamzummim and forced the rest to leave. Then the Ammonites settled there.[/i]"
- Deuteronomy 2:20-21

"The people are strong and tall, the descendants of the Anakim. You know about them and you have heard it said about them, 'Who can stand up to the sons of Anak?"
- Deuteronomy 9:2

For what it's worth, the terms Nephilim, Rephaim and other names that these giants are/were known by, effectively have the same or similar connotations, as the terms used for the giants were done out from describing certain attributes about or of the giants. Take for example, Genesis 6:4 above, where we have the first adjective. They are called Nephilims, because they caused the world to fall even as they fell themselves. Nephilim comes from the root hebrew word naphal and properly means, a feller ( i.e. a bully or tyrant and thats a giant)

Genesis 10:1,6,8-9 above and other verses is a second example of giants being called gibborim and this because of their non-compliant, open resistance, tyrant, bold, audacious behaviour

In Deuteronomy 2:10-11 above, is the third example of giants getting called, Emim, the name is translated as "the dreaded ones" and it's because whoever that saw one of them was seized with terror.

The fourth example is where, the giants as seen in Deuteronomy 2:20-21 above are called Zamzummims because they inspired fear and were fierce warriors, they also were called Rephaim, for the sight of them, made people fearfully soft like as if melting hot wax

The fifth example is Deuteronomy 9:2 above where the giants are so called Anakim because they're long-necked tall men and wearing huge necklaces in great numbers

I thought you just earlier above said, no Nephilim of any kind survived the Flood, erhn? If no Nephilim of any kind survived the Flood, then where from recently has the birth of the Antichrist spring the Nephilim out from Ihedinobi3, hmm?

Nephilim, Rephaim and other terms are names that giants are/were known as and interchangeably used to describe them. The Nephilims and/or Rephaims and whatnot, definitely werent angel hybrids stock (i.e. they certainly weren't part-angel part human at all)

The bible vouched the purity of Noah and not anyone else. If any of Nephilims had hearkened to Noah's 120 years of preaching of immimnent doom, they would have been on board the ark, but obviously they didnt, except for a daughter of man with a dormant Nephilim gene who did.

Though I have my hunch how the Nephilim will resurface again, please Ihedinobi3 throw more light on how the birth of the Antichrist and the ten kings that will rule Tribulational Rome with him will bring about the new Nephilim. Thank you.

"After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
- Genesis 5:32

Ihedinobi3 fyi, as you can see from the above Genesis 5:32 birth order, Ham was Noah's middle son (i.e. second son), while Ham's son Canaan was Noah's "youngest son". I very much will be happy to prove this to you backing it up with scriptures if you so much disagree

I definitely agree with muttley on this that the sons of God aren't angels but humans(flesh and blood). I think I have argued about this on this board with the Jehovah witness crew.

solite3:
It has been bless God. Ok I pray for success in all your endeavors in Jesus name

Amen my brother

solite3:
bloodofthelamb where have you been? Its been a while

l have been busy for sometime now. How has it been for you?