₦airaland Forum

Dasuks:
I am not being biased. Or rather, it is not my intention. Dont over estimate the cost shouldered by the investors. Depending on the JV nnpc can be 55 or 60 %. Lng is run well because Nnpc is 49 %, while shell total and eni hold 51%. And lng is an actual company, not just a project(field).

Nnpc doesnt live up to its funding responsibilities. Rather it lets the companies claim the cost that was spent on its behalf. That's one of the reasons for the rise in PSCs over traditional JVs. If ure gonna spend on the nnpv part why not do it already ?

Good for Guinea. But what I'm talking about is Congo. Those figures wre low. Country that size and well endowed making less than 10 bln USD from all those ores and minerals ?
And yes Nigeria is being cheated. They're always finding a margin of differential between what was exported and quoted. But it's usually years later.... before the court cases come and go. And everyone allows it slide either way. Because afterall nnpc isn't living up to it's JV obligations.

You still cannot justify the theft in Congo. Esp the one by Gertler. Mind you my brother, Im not tryna play Africa is a victim card here.... im just saying that Congo is getting royally shafted for the volumes that they produce and the true worth of it.

Congo shld be wealthier than Nigeria on an annual income basis.

I guess I just don't feel for int'l investors who up play their trials and difficulties. Cos when the next email leak occurs, you'd see messages about them detailing how they cheat those African monkeys or some other BS.

Then again you're being fair. I can see that too.

Before you claim that Congo is making less which I can partly agree, especially when you look at the quantity of resources they have.
You need to consider the fact that most mining are done informally by rebels and artisan miners who smuggle the minerals out of Congo without paying royalties, taxes and duties.

Secondly you cannot compare oil revenue to solid minerals oil is far more lucrative and sales more than minerals. I have been into physical Commodity business for over 10yrs so am talking from experience.

What you described is all over the World it is not peculiar to African nations, MNC worldover always try to cut costs and corners to maximize profit.


It is up to the government of any country to do the needful.

Nigeria is not cheated becos if the IOC where able to prove their case in court and won, then they are right.


It's our corruption and poor administrative skills that empower this MNC to short charge us.

Dasuks:
Nnpc holds 60% JV/ Contributory. But how many times do they pay up? However, u cant deny them their equity. Sonangol is a bit more hands on. But the same thing. U cant withhold payments.

The 5% is not even always enforceable. Some companies are leaving the country with 100%. When Kabila struck the deal with tshisekedi he took control of mining finance and security... who does that ? And ppl like Gertler and glencore keep caking ?

Whose work is it to enforce it?


You still don't get it,
Can Ibb or obj or jonathan pocket nnpc money out of power as a matter of right vs buhari ? U know what I mean ? Congo is almost 90 million ppl with a 50 billion usd economy. Africa is poor yes, but 50 billion gdp (all activity) on almost 100 million ppl... mediocre.

Let us know that the elite r stealing money and hold them for it. Not the one where they're not even chopping it and the real choppers are abroad.

U saw the senegal BP deal ? Some romanian dude is essentially playing the role that arthur eze adenuga or danjuma will play here.

How do u go after him ? Will he spend a dime or invest a dime in ur economy ?

Congo shld be shoulder to shoulder with Naija.

Who is responsible to enforce it?
In Guniea they are doing good in terms of enforcement it left for Congolese government to do the same.

Dasuks:
I understand it very well and Im saying that those contractual terms are fishy. The mineral is on ur soil. U shld have 60 percent at least contributory. Whether u live up to the obligations or not is not an issue. Sovereignty is enough to get everyone to overlook the issue. Always postpone till the following year. The taxes are 10 percent and royalties are 30 percent or so. Quite low dont u think?

Now if 5 % operational stake can't be enforced, Gertler them will pay the taxes. ? Bro? and u know the effective tax rate is literally somewhere around 5 %. Because these fees dont even get paid. Due to personalization of power among the oligarchs. There's several studies out there about the effective accruals being literally around 5%. If u look u will see. Just showed u official figures. Look at how ridiculous those figures are, 5 % really ?

Even Naija forming 60 % jv and 66 to 85 percent pet profit taxes (depending on whether within or after 5 years) gets cheated. MNCs have better accountants and lawyers... so what does 5 % do

All you are doing is assumptions with a biased mindset.

You need to understand that an investor also has a risk to shoulders.
When your taxes and royalties are too high it scares investors.
There is a lot of risk involved in resources extraction.

I gave you website of extractive transparency an NGO that checkmate resources extraction and government revenues in African countries and their analysis is not too bad for Congo.

In the case of Nigeria you mentioned, the government is even oweing the MOC several billions of dollars, of money they are supposed to contribute as their own part of JV agreement .

Nobody is cheating Nigeria, the agreement is normally structured 45% JV. The Nigerian government is supposed to provide 45% of the cost of exploration and mostly development of any Field, and when the field starts production the government receives also 45% as revenue outside the taxes and royalties.

For example look at the structure of NLNG you can google it it's all online , no one is cheating your government rather your government is cheating us, the masses.

namedo:
Africa is blessed but most Africans are mentally bankrupt and filled with tribal sentiment, greed and hate for one another. That's why development may be too far from Africa.

Oil money during the oil boom in Nigeria only boomed in the pockets of those who stole power from the people.

While the Whiteman is thinking of space exploration, we are thinking of how to divide the country.

Forget tribal and religious differences; let us come together and form true Nationalism and become the leading Africa nation once again.

My brother it is not possible, The blackman is so stupid and greed that even in a family devoid of tribalism and enithcity they would steal kill and destroy themselves.

Am a witness to what household enemies can do

sunboy:
Really? Are you serious ?

The Western world looted Africa back in the days, to develop what they enjoy now.
China is resource rich and also technologically rich, that doesn’t translate to wealth for them ?

Check your facts right? Mineral resources and good management = wealth.

Oh you mention Saudi, you know the Saud family are richer than the country itself ?? That answers why Saudi is not richer than it is right now.

And Russia? I give up on this conversation.

My friend stop this false narrative that the west stole from Africa to develop there country.

Did the Roman and Greek empire still steal from Africa before they became great?

Let me bust your bubble ,Europe was far ahead of Africa before they came to Africa, the resources you claim they stole was mostly traded in most cases with the locals in exchange for other goods.

Canada,Australia, New Zealand and many more western countries never had colony but they are first World rated nations why?

US never had any colony in Africa except Liberia which was not even a colony per say, yet they are the most richest nation.

You think resources equates directly to wealth and development, then why is Singarpore an island country with very small land mass, smaller than Eegmba LGA in Rivers state, about 550sq km richer than Liberia, Gabon ,Equitorial Guinea put together despite all their oil wealth and mineral and land resources.

Singarpore imports drinking water, they have no single resources including water and land?

The China you are talking about depends on the west for virtually all their technological achievements.

Dasuks:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.miningweekly.com/article.php%3fa_id=439304&rep_id=5582

Take for example this article about the ,Jewish buddy of Kabila, that mentions the govt stake of 5% in mining projects.. but regardless, Gertler controls 100%. So the 5 % is not even always guaranteed.

Check Congo govt revenues. Richest landmass in the world. Tell me if it adds up.

You don't understand the 5% structure.

What it means is that the government can automatically own 5% of a project by law without contributing the equivalent value to the project.

Take for example in the link you shared, the project costs 1.8billion dollars that means the government of Congo is supposed to contribute 90million dollars as part of their stake, but according to the law they are not expected to contribute any money but are awarded 5% stake and revenue in the project.

5% might sound small but the government can make up with taxes and royalties.

sunboy:
Congo could easily be the richest and wealthiest country on planet earth. They are blessed with natural resources no be small.

Mineral resources do not translate to wealth.

Saudi and Russia with all their oil wealth have GDP smaller than the 5th largest state economy in US.

[quote author=Whytelyon post=99568186]None of the above. What they want you to see is that

I checked out the 5% stuff, and I found out that Congo mining code or law allows the government to hold 5% non contributing stake in any project.
For me it is not that bad since it is non contributing stake, the government can make up for it through taxes and royalties.


https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL8N21L4TE


https://eiti.org/es/implementing_country/5

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.miningweekly.com/article.php%3fa_id=439304&rep_id=5582

Whytelyon:
That is why i said i doubt its 5% , THEY WILL JUST SHOW US WHAT THEY WANT US TO SEE.
You did not read that part?

Who will show us, the government or the western companies ?

Usorohtheman:
Most Africans are not educated irrespective of the level of our acquired education.

This is because of our love for material things. We are greedy.

True.

Education can not solve the problem of the blackman, even in western nations with high level of Education and leadership blacks always finds a way to be at the bottom of the society

Whytelyon:
i doubt its 5%
but its what they show everyone on the internet to see.

That's not true, it must be higher. I will check it.

timesup234:
Show me anywhere in history where China invaded Africa or anywhere in the world

You are naive

timesup234:
A majority of our leaders are selected in Washington DC

What a dumb post.

panafrican:
How does the U.S . not being the world's number 1 economy stop African government ministers from stealing from African people ?
Just asking.
We have so much to care about in Africa.

Some people are inherently stupid.

They think china will deal better with Africa

cstr1000:
See this guy.
So in your mind, china is more innovative than the USA.?
You think the world started 10 years ago?

Abeg ask this clowns

The guys could even be HIV positive already before they raped her.

Typical SA

Dasuks:
I mean that Congo's fg takes in 5 percent of revenues. Sad. Yes they must make profits, however given that compliance costs and other sustainability considerations are nonexistent, they have higher margins here (adding corruption).

That's what they said about oil till FG seized 35 percent in safrap (later elf and now total) and started positioning itself with the 60 % JV, ppt and royalty taxes. The co.s said they cant operate with all those, but today they r still here. Gaddafi started doing 55% , at first there was opposition, but afterwards everyone aligned.

Pre Opec, IOCs owned the oil and tankers. Only paid a tax on each barrel. But after the Arabs and South Americans nationalized it what happened? They cooperated.

Mining just hasn't had that push yet. How many mining cos try this nonsense in Australia or Canada? Provincial govts are swimming in cash money. Cos they yax it well.

I don't believe you, that Congo FG takes only 5%, where is your source?

mike8804:
sure, that's why there will still be poverty. money is a tool of control created by the few to control the resources of the many. am not proposing trade by barter am just stating the fact

There is nothing wrong with using money.

How is money a tool of control?

I believe in pure capitalism where resources are allocated by market forces.

Usorohtheman:
The problem with Africa is that Africans are not educated. Civilization is a function of education.

Yes, but the sad truth is that Africans no matter how educated they are still cannot function like civilized people.

Dasuks:
I mean that Congo's fg takes in 5 percent of revenues. Sad. Yes they must make profits, however given that compliance costs and other sustainability considerations are nonexistent, they have higher margins here (adding corruption).

That's what they said about oil till FG seized 35 percent in safrap (later elf and now total) and started positioning itself with the 60 % JV, ppt and royalty taxes. The co.s said they cant operate with all those, but today they r still here. Gaddafi started doing 55% , at first there was opposition, but afterwards everyone aligned.

Pre Opec, IOCs owned the oil and tankers. Only paid a tax on each barrel. But after the Arabs and South Americans nationalized it what happened? They cooperated.

Mining just hasn't had that push yet. How many mining cos try this nonsense in Australia or Canada? Provincial govts are swimming in cash money. Cos they yax it well.

Good, you got my point, just as Guenia did with their bauxite reserves, enter into partnership with the western firms on terms that are favourable to both parties especially the government.
Guinea government takes minimum of 45% stake on every bauxite reserves project.

My problem is not with the mining or mineral lease agreement as long as it favours African governments, my concern is what do the government do with their own share of the money.

Why is UAE,Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait, Malaysia and many more countries utilizing their own resources to benefit their people why Africans enslave theirs?

Dasuks:
5 % of value that is entirely urs :p ? Baba how far ? For Nigeria and Angola where over the decades govt has come to capture anywhere from 60 to 80 percent of all profits without fulfilling contractual obligations or investing anything... with them the issue is corruption of earned funds. And not necessarily being outrightly cheated (altho some of that still happens)...

Congo is a diff case. Kabila them still hold sway over the finance mines and security ministries. Eastern congo is being robbed blind by Kagame's (fake woke leader) ppl and remnants of militias are very much active. All the while, European mining cos are cashing out lol.

You mean 5% is taken by our government or the west?

I hope you know that when western firms invest in Africa for example in mining they are taking high risks due to poor policies and unstable government and such investment must warrent high profits for it to be feasible?

FreeSpirited:
Congo is the most gifted and richest in natural resources in the world. But they are among the poorest in the world. Their untapped deposit is over 24 trillion dollars ..
Their problem is failed and oppressive leadership and the influence of Western powers on their resources...
If their leaders are willing, they can become the richest country in the world...
Africa seems to be cursed they have everything but they are the poorest...Europe have nothing compared to Africa..but they are the world giant..which way Africa?

PS: We are still under colonisation but we don't know...all our wealth is under the control of our politicians who are indirectly being controlled by Western powers...
We need another kind of struggle to really decolonise us completely..For. now we are under economic and political colonisation.... Only if the majority know this, they will fight and hunt the politicians to liberate themselves.

Propaganda.

Your politicians are the ones stealing your wealth not the West.

mike8804:
If you analyze how God created this earth, you know HE wanted everybody to be rich, God hates poverty. That's why everything is in surplus, mineral resources, crops, animals and even knowledge to utilize it. Poverty is created by man, few individuals monopolizing what is meant for majority.
Man created money as a tool to achieve control, the few print what they term fit for the society, keep much for themselves and share few for the populace.
Devil is not the cause of poverty, man is and they blame it on the devil. Until we go back to trade by barter poverty will never cease from this earth, even the free air and water given to man has been monetize.

This has greatly cause the obsessive love for money. Poverty is the root of all evil, if you are in doubt compare the crime rate in Monaco & Finland versus Nigeria and Somalia. Stay rich!!!

You are a joker.
Trade by barter can never work, not in a modern society

Dpharisee:
Western leaders are the problem there, CIA assassinated Patrice Mulumba to loot the country for several years and arm different ethnic groups to keep fighting while looting continues

CIA assisted in removing Patrice because of his affliation to Socialist Russia, not becos of any mineral resources. He also had some internal issues already

Get your facts right.

osuofia2:
always blaming the white for evrything. Thunder go fire nna

You dey look the foolish people.

They forget that they are the same ones that will cross river to meet one baba just to kill you for hustling better than them.

The blackman is his own worst enemy.

Dasuks:
Congo has already been conquered. Neo colonialists in full swing. A Country that's half as big as Nigeria with an economy lesser than Ghana's.

They take about 5% of the mining profits.

Just 5% and you are complaining

Shattuck:
the biggest threat to Africa's development is Africa. guess you know nothing about the level of political corruption in the Congo. I just pray this doesn't lead to unrest and bloodshed

God bless you.

The day I washed my hands off Africa was when I realised that they can kill you for just buying a new shoe.

There is so much hatred, selfishness and jealous among Africans that's is our main problem

JohnBullMySon:
We are the ones oppressing ourselves and playing to the tune of Europeans, the wealth of Congo is the reason for their poverty. Every militia group wants to control the mines, foolishly sell the raw materials cheaply, since there is no infrastructure to refine, and then use the money to buy weapons and fight other militia groups.

True.

80% of the problem in Africa is caused by Africans, we need to be telling ourselves the truth before shifting blame.

Look at Equitorial Guinea with all its oil wealth and small population it is still a 3rd World country.

princemartinsG:
We are blessed with limitless resources

And at the same time blessed with useless leaders

Oh my Africa when shall you reach your glory

VOTE FOR A DEVELOPED AFRICA

And useless fellowers. It is said that a country cannot grow above the average IQ of the citizens of that country.

It's not by chance that Africa keeps producing bad leaders, my opinion is that majority of the people themselves are bad that's why they keep producing such leaders.

seunmsg:
Congo has always been a war zone as a result of her natural resources. The country is a victim of its resources. The west will never allow that country to work.

Crap.

Cyoung4real:
The white folks writing their script on how to start a war in Congo and then go in as peace keeper then mine the golds. Just watch an see.

All this are just propaganda.

Why have they not started war in Nigeria ,South Africa and other mineral rich nations.

Africa is suffering from poor leadership and uneducated fellowers stop shifting blame

Zimbisimbi:
Jesus! Africa would truly do well without these bloody Europeans

What can the locals do with gold without Europeans buying it?
Will they eat it?