₦airaland Forum

I don't know where you are going to Ibadan from, but I want you to consider not rushing there at sunrise if it's from anywhere far.

Your head is already spinning, so I doubt you can be thinking straight, and your rush to Ibadan will not raise your dead brother who now rests in peace.

I say this because I had an aunty who once rushed from Kwara to Ibadan when her mother died, and she never arrived, though I acknowledge your own experience will differ.

Accept my condolence.

Kukutente23:
I would resist a religious imposition but the question is my reason for it. Is it because I genuinely detest imposition or that I'm not cultured to accept religious imposition as divine will?
The deeper one goes in religious indoctrination the more amenable one is to its imposition however illogical. Then, the religion takes a form of defence and its boundaries expand beyond personal comforts to a more legalistic realm

In my own opinion, you are not 'educated' if you are indoctrinated.

Take our conversation to date as an example. If you accept anything I say without questioning it like you rightly do, I will have indoctrinated you and you will ignorantly believe whatever I've said, but you would not have practised the 5Ws and as far as I am concerned you would not have been educated by me at all.

But if you refuse to accept whatever I tell you, and decide to go do your own research and find the truth out for yourself, then I have educated you, or to be more humble and more accurate, I would have facilitated your learning.

So, please know that the reason you are getting so much of my time and effort is because you are rightly opposed to my imposition because you are not amenable to my undivine will, and rightly so.

Kukutente23:
You seem to think these 5W are more critical to the stability and correct evolution of society than other social and economic factors.
Your description of learning makes it a bridge and not a base. You admit there was economic domination but think education led to liberation. It seems you're describing France more than England. You haven't shown that education and not economic repression led to the evolution of democracy.
If we leave education and remove economic domination, would the conditions still lead to democracy? Does history support this

People must be educational aware to fight for the removal of economic domination, and that fight is what made their rulers who economically dominated them to reluctantly accept democracy. Otherwise, they were ruled by emperors or kings who ruled by a heavenly mandate that no one dare oppose.

Democracy itself is educationally spread. Greece where it began was one of the more educated societies, as in more of its citizens were educated than many societies, and that's why they were advanced enough to democratise.

The 5Ws is at the core of the scientific revolution, which is very critical to the evolution of Britain and resulted in where we are today. Remove it and we'd be no more advanced and developed than some back water village full of ignorant people somewhere.

It however has nothing to do with your so called "stability", and is more likely to destabilise, as in, disrupt the status quo.

And there's nothing called "correct evolution", because there's nothing particularly correct about evolution, which just stumbles along blindly according to the environment in which it happens.

Kukutente23:
My question is if Rome forced Christianity on the inhabitants of England.
I see you want to admit no without saying no.

If you see me wanting to admit saying no, then I'm afraid you are making stuff up to see.

I'm telling you Christianity was literally forced on the inhabitants of England who had their own gods which they were reluctant to relinquish.

Kukutente23:
The fact is that Christianity has never been forced except for a brief moment and even that was after majority of Europe had become converted.

Britain is not majority of Europe. We were the outskirts of Europe that didn't particularly matter to the Roman Empire until much later in their empire history, and not much to the Church in Rome until even much more later than that.

Our conversion was not, they brought it and we just accepted it. The first attempt to Christianise Britain was in the 3rd century. There was resistance. The next concerted effort was in 597 AD, when Pope Gregory I sent St. Augustine to convert the Anglo-Saxons to Christianity. That was more peaceful but it's spread was limited. The eventual conversion of most of England was in 1066 when William the Conquer led the Norman conquest, and I hope I don't need to have to explain the implication of Conquer in his name and the conquest he achieved.

We valued our gods far too much than to just abandon them and peacefully accept some foreign God from Rome.

Kukutente23:
Neither did Africa or Asia ever experience force in receiving Christianity. This distinction is important in relation to the other religion and its political ideology

Are you saying Christianity was not imposed on Nigeria? Like they brought Christianity to our shores and we just abandoned our gods and accepted Christian gods?

I think you say this because you don't want to accept that it's imposition was pretty much similar to how Islam was spread. And that makes me ask, are you a Christian? For that will explain why you protest so much.

Wherever we British took our illustrious KJV, we forced people to abandon their gods and accept our God, usually after we had enslaved them. In most instances, the people capitulated much easier than some where a bottle of scotch did the job. But if scotch didn't work, we had these big things called ships that had these big noisy things called guns that we could intimidate you with if by the coast, and we had smaller guns we could point at you like from 500m away and shoot you dead like we were magicians, or sell to you if you served our purpose, which involved you abandoning your gods and accepting our God.

Go on, resist our God we brought you if you dare!

Know that we wrote the history of how we spread our KJV God, so don't expect us to write in our books we let you read, how barbaric and backward we were. Still, it's not too hard to know we came with a book and guns and a bottle of scotch and took you away to slave in our plantations around the world and forced our God on those we left behind.

Legacy, Knowledge, Truth, Researcher, Monster

But you appear to have done none of the above, lol.

Do you at least have a receipt and a written guarantee? They might help when you go to police, though I'd have thought there's a consumer protection office something somewhere that deals with sale of faulty goods.

Or maybe not. I been away too long.

Very good read.

I'd like to add "sabotage".

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/25/jaguar-land-rover-restarts-computer-systems-cyber-attack

Kukutente23:
Lol
Oya I ask

I'm honoured.

Learning, as in, education, and experience, and knowledge, is what has made those people evolve democratically out of the oppressive effects of being dominated economically.

You'd recall I said in a previous thread that the education system in UK does the 5 Ws of Who, What, When, Where, and Why. It sounds banal and simplistic, but the type of mind developed learning the implication of those simple words from a baby is different to that of a people who's emphasis is on belief as it is in some countries. Both minds will evolve in different directions and at different rates. There's also history, which is very important in some countries and not others.

These are what create the "will of the people" you mentioned. And the lack of these very simple things is what makes the will of a people less dominant and less able to democratise themselves out of the oppressive effects of being dominated economically.

In fact, those who lack the sort of learning I mention here would likely get colonised and enslaved and have their country formed and named by those who have it, just like Britain was 'established' by Rome, and as Nigeria was created by Britain.

Now, I don't expect you to accept what I've said here and I definitely hope you don't believe a single word I've written. I even suspect you might not understand it completely, and that's no fault of yours but of mine for not explaining it sufficiently. So, question please. Make me work hard for it.

Joystarn00:
See what ? Na that one be Ur problem?

Yes, na that one be my problem.

Have you got a problem with that?

Kukutente23:
You seem to believe that education is a panacea to radicalisation. The evidence does not support that view. Most of the terrorists who are well known today were by no means lowly educated. Bin Laden had a PhD. Mutallab was educated in one of UK's prestigious colleges. The list goes on. In fact, most internationally renowned terrorists are western educated.

Many will agree with you, except when I say "education", I do not mean "Now, what I want is Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life", as Charles Dickens parodied in his novel Hard Times, but education that teaches the use of the senses to question and learn instead of merely believing what one is taught and told to believe.

You might understand this better by researching what it is that makes some countries invent more than others.

Kukutente23:
To think that the mayorship is the singular point of institution of Sharia is to be unaware of the extra-governmental influence that can shape society. Most times when these things happen, you'll simply find yourself at the receiving end with no room for a say.

The mayorship is obviously not the singular point of institution of Sharia. And that's why it's ridiculous to claim a Muslim mayor of London will impose Sharia on UK or even smaller London. A mayor has no such powers.

In fact Londoners will not elect Sadiq Khan as a bin collector if he does too much Islam not to talk of attempt to impose Sharia on predominantly godless metropolitan London. Golly, we wouldn't likely even elect a Christian who does too much Yahweh because we have evolved further than that as a nation.

You see, we've been there. In my previous I mentioned Christianity was imposed on us. Rome came with their Latin Bible which the English could not read, and whatever the priest said was from God. Then Bibles started being translated into the vernacular (banned for century's too), and the natives finally read it and told Rome to go do one.

After years of reading it themselves, they then acquired their own understanding, and formed their own religion called Protestantism, which is what was the British brought to us after imposing it on their own citizens. There were times if you were not seen in church on Sunday and didn't send your tithes in somehow, you wouldn't be sold anything in the market.

That understanding has now been, or to be fair, is being abandoned, for our new religion. But I'll wait for you to ask what that is before I tell you.

Now, you mentioned "extra-governmental influence". You see those 26 bishops in the House of Lords you say just ceremoniously sit there in fancy robes? They are one semi extra extra-governmental source of influence out of many, and are not going to let some startup Sharia nonsense come and usurp them from their ceremonial seat now, would they, even though the priests of the newer religion have already curtailed their influence somewhat. And the priests of the new religion, who happen to be the majority will definitely not let any religion come and drag us back into the dark ages of the old religion of Christianity, and definitely not to the more backward (forgive me) Sharia rubbish ever.

For that would be like de-evolving. And I doubt we are ready to abandon the teachings of the high priest Darwin, amongst many others, that we have preached all around the world and do it's opposite and go backwards, considering we preach our new religion to our babies in the breast milk we feed them in school.

There are lots of "extra-governmental influences" countering Sharia apart from 26 bishops, is my point. You got schools from age 4. You got BBC in every home. You got loads of museums and libraries in every borough. There's even church in every parish. And there's your peers too. And they are all forever vigilant against religious bigotry, because, well, money, to be honest - our gdp depends on it - and we are far too enlightened for some startups to come impose some seven century Sharia law on us considering how much further than that we have evolved. I imagine it and can just see us fighting a war against anyone if they dared. And to crown it all, Muslims here are predominantly not as extreme and fanatic as they are in some places, and must love their neighbours or be hated. Or have you not read reports of some of the more îgnorant bigots amongst us placing pigs heads in their mosques?

Even Muslims in my own Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun are not as fundamental as some, and would dare not attempt to impose Sharia on all of us, because the Christians will not have it for starts, and Ogun and Sopona and all our other gods will definitely not sit there in their dead states and let themselves be Shariad without rising up to impose them.

I mean, just think of it. Would you not resist if someone imposed a religious law on you? Now imagine what an entire nation like enlightened UK will do if anyone dared.

Kukutente23:
Rome forcefully converted England to Christianity? I'm hearing this for the first time. Can you share the narrative of the forceful conversion? I'm interested in learning it.

Your question is, did Rome convert England to Christianity?

And the answer is below. The "forceful" is because there was a lot of resistance from the priests and worshippers of of the gods Woden, and Tiw, and Thunor, and Frige who didn't convert easily, just as we did not convert easily from our gods to Yahweh.

I'm going to go through the rest of your response in the same manner where necessary.

All the assault allegations against Donald Trump, recapped
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped

Mrexcell:
Still doesn't justify their actions they would have gone about it in a civilised way instead of killing hundreds of innocent people now they will have to live with their evil actions.

Civilised way they've been going about it since 1900s that has left thousands of them dead or imprisoned or homeless?

I agree. They should be saints. Pity your double standards excludes sainthood to the Israelis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgr71z0jp4o

Mrexcell:
If palestinians really wanted 2 state solution they wouldn't have went to massacre 1300 jews unprovoked what were they thinking before taking such barbaric action?

If I came to barbarically throw you out of the house you live in that you inherited from your father who inherited it from his father who inherited it from your great great grandfather, I'm certain you'd just pack up and leave. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending how you see it, some will not docily give up their inheritance line you might, and would fight back.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sr3bhFESBY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsWkn-tuOzU?si=9-GYEtbu56LmquYR

Kukutente23:
I already answered the question. You're going round in circles
If you have something you're on about, spill it out instead of driving yourself into a mental ditch

It seems to me like you don't understand how and what made them evolved, and I'd leave it at that unless you specifically ask.

Kukutente23:
In other words UK employees are free to join unions if they so wish without fear of coercion or retribution
How does it work over there and it doesn't seem a nice thing here

No, UK employees are not free to join unions if they wish to. Many companies successfully do quite a lot to dissuade unionism in their organisations. And I have not claimed unionism is not a nice thing.

This thread is specifically about unions in Dangote Refinery, which he is opposing just like many companies successfully do here.

Kukutente23:
Don't try to cover your tribal inclinations in persuasive language. That you even imagined that religious tolerance is exclusive to a certain tribe in Nigeria shows your narrow-mindedness.

Religious tolerance is not exclusive to any particular tribe in Nigeria.

There are many individuals in many tribes all over Nigeria that are religiously tolerant.

Kukutente23:
I can mention two or three major tribes in Nigeria with the same level of religious liberality you exclusively ascribe to the Yorubas.

Religious liberality is not exclusive to the Yorubas.

There are many individuals in many tribes all over Nigeria that are religiously liberal.

Kukutente23:
That warped idea that only Yorubas have mixed religion is the claim of tribal bigots with limited knowledge.

Yoruba's are not the only tribe with mixed religions.

There are many tribes in Nigeria that traditionally have more than one god. In fact, most villages in Nigeria had their own unique gods and they lived peacefully with each other just as we do in UK.

Kukutente23:
I gave you real life examples of previously Christian states that were forcefully converted to Islam.

The English themselves worshipped Woden (king of the gods, similar to Odin), Tiw (god of war), Thunor (the thunder god, like Thor), and Frige (goddess of love and marriage), and did not worship Yahweh until Rome colonised and forcefully converted them to Christianity.

Kukutente23:
Lastly, I showed you the recent agitation for Sharia in the same Yorubaland you claimed was more tolerant and liberal in terms of religion.

And I showed you all the agitation of some does not mean they are or will be successful, considering there are many agitating for Christianity too. In fact, I've just got off the phone with someone agitating for Ifa in Yoruba land.

Kukutente23:
What I am calling your attention to is not hate but vigilance. One of the biggest lies ever told is the claim that Sharia laws only exist for personal matters and family disputes.

Your vigilance sounds more like hate your neighbour, instead of give them the benefit of the doubt and love them, which is what we do here in UK.

Be that as it may be, Sharia can not usurp the well established and exported around the world English law, which Nigeria, India, United States of America Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, South Africa, Canada, Hong Kong and numerous other countries around the world have adopted.

Kukutente23:
The problem is when the fanatics and extremists who usually constitute a vocal and wholesome number start the crusade when they feel the conditions are topnotch, the moderates hardly find the moral strength to call them to order because most times, their arguments find strong basis in the quran and hadiths.

England does not rely on Islamic moderates to save us from fanatics and extremists, which England already has, and who have nothing to do with Islam, that we Brits are already opposing.

We take responsibility for our society, and don't leave the stamping down of fanatics and extremist of any religion or tribe or colour to others. That responsibility is taught in schools starting at age 4.

Kukutente23:
So as the number of Muslims swell, your concern should be the number of radicals and extremists that gain ground among them and their posture towards your so-called free society.

And this is the rub. You assume authority you definitely do not have to tell me what I should be concerned about.

Britain already does a lot to counter radicals and extremists. We take your children from age 4 and teach them British liberal values so you do not end up radical and extremist wherever you are from. And we have counter intelligence monitoring extremists and fanatics of any type and take prompt action against them.

Kukutente23:
If you delude yourself into believing that the UK system is impenetrable due to some Bishops sitting in a ceremonial House, consider the Anglican church itself and how its attitude towards homosexuality has continued to change over the years.

I feel you'd rather I let myself be deluded by you. And I hope I am showing you how woefully you are failing.

In 1290 we persecuted Jews. In the 1600s we persecuted Catholics. In the 1900s, we threw homosexuals in jail, and up on till the 1980s you would not have been employed in many professions in UK if you were outwardly gay. Now we've evolved into people who are tolerant of homosexuals and Jews and Catholics and blacks and whoever lives amongst us.

Our acceptance of homosexual, and people of diverse tribes and religions is a thing we've evolved into. It's called progress. And even our Gods obey us when we change.

As for the House of Lords, it is not ceremonial, and calling it so shows a deficiency of knowledge of the British parliamentary system, which I hope you spend some time correcting.

Kukutente23:
Islam is a political ideology in its basest form. It demands the full integration of the society under sharia laws. The founder fought wars to establish an Islamic caliphate and after him, more wars were fought to establish the religion.

Our Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan has not started forming an army, and is not stockpiling arms yet to fight any war, and has not given me any indication that he intends to impose Sharia law on us. When he does give an indication he wants to start a war and Islamise London, we shall deal with him democratically as we do.

Your problem is that you do not understand how bigoted the British society was in the past, and how we've evolved into the liberal multicultural society we are today. And you think we'd de-evolve back into what we were in the past. And I am telling you that is not a fear I have because we are constantly vigilant and always evolving, and so can not de-evolve like you think

Basically, you sitting wherever you are trying to convince me that the sky is falling in UK where I am. And I disagree because I see the sky standing firm where it is and always will be, so I fear not.

Mrexcell:
Igbos are not dragging the land with their host they only rent and buy lands to develop so yorubas has absolutely no reasons to drive them away unlike the palestinians who wants the whole land of isreal for themselves and also wants the total wiping out of all Jews living in isreal. So there's absolutely no basis for the comparison.

You wouldn't see a basis for the comparison because you don't want to.

The Palestinians have accepted a two state solution, which means sharing the land between them, but the Israelites keep grabbing more.

I'm certain you'd fight back too if you were Palestinian and some people come with their book and claim the land you inherited from your great great grandparents belonged to them instead of letting yourself be exterminated by greedy Israel.

The Qur'an encourages the reading of the Bible which also encourages science (use of the senses).

It is written, "the Spirit of God was hovering over the water", which is science, and everything God went on to do in the six days was science too.

Then Eve, the first female scientist, used her senses to test if true that she would die on the day she eats the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

And when Jesus is written to have said, "ask and knock and seek with all your heart and soul and mind", he too was advocating the use of the senses, which is science.

Unfortunately, most are stuck on "belief", which is the opposite of use your senses, and so people die for lack of knowledge.

Left to me, science would be mandatory up to the first year after secondary school. That would help reduce the gullibility of people.

Further reading: Steps of the Scientific Method

seunlayi:
Just imagine this. I go don stand up

Fortunately, I took a book with me and read it while waiting, or I would have just left too. By 9pm, I was burnt out tired and left just as things started getting interesting.

I confess this happens a lot to me as I don't like not being on time. Makes me rarely go to Nigerian parties because I see them as a waste of my time.

The annoying thing is, non-Nigerians are surprised when you have an appointment with them and arrive on time, as they expect Nigerians to always be late. That's how badly we've given ourselves a bad reputation. And it's costing us dearly.

Judolisco:
I said it should be regulated, and followed it up by saying the government should treat workers better.... If the continent is good we won't be leaving it in droves... D issue is we don't realise dis Europeans are using us for their benefits.....

D UK started suddenly allowing us into their country after covid19, they lost a lot of people.... They saw that they didn't have enough manpower.... Another reason is because Africas weren't affected that much by covid19 and they saw the need for herd immunity, let this people come into our country maybe they'll be able to shield us if there's another pandemic

We need to wake up

We do need to wake up. And yes, "Europeans are using us for their benefits".

They have this very famous book they read called An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by a certain Adam Smith, that claims a nations wealth comes from the labour of it's people, so the more people they attract the wealthier they become.

We should steal that book and read it and get wise.

seunlayi:
But....I still have my reservation on Africa and time

It's really like a disease.

A cousin invited me to his wife's birthday at 4pm. I arrived at 3pm thinking he might need me to help set up or whatever. Na so I sit there for an event that ended up not starting till 7pm.

I called my siblings who couldn't come, and they laughed their heads off, telling me they'd gone to his son's wedding scheduled to start at noon but didn't start till 5pm.

I just can't understand how some people disrespect others time like that.

Judolisco:
yes, my comment is a wake up call.... If we keep doing this and we don't change... Then Africa will remain the same way it is for years to come

The problem is not that they are taking, but that we are going.

It's like you work for someone who pays you like 100k a day, and someone comes to offer you 200k a day to leave there and work for them instead. Now imagine your government says you can't change jobs for whatever reason. I bet you'd find a way to smuggle yourself to the better pay.

You after all don't work for the benefit of Africa, but for your own benefit. No?

Very worth reading. Thanks.

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budaatum:
There was this wealthy man who lived on Osinbajo Close in Obanikoro close to Bola Adewunmi Street where I once lived. People said his wife was in a cupboard, and every time he needed money, he just had to call her name and money fell from her mouth. I asked them how they knew this, if, when he called his wife's name he invited them in to watch, but they told me how ignorant I was and I should shut the fuq up.

What they didn't know was the man who lived on Osinbajo Close was a hard working lawyer who would go on to become the Vice President of Nigeria.

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Mrexcell:
The Jews have been in the land of isreal hundreds of years before palestinians.

Is that why it is ok, in your opinion, for Israelites today who predominantly immigrated from Europe in the last century to be chasing the Palestinians off the land they now own?

Would you approve of the Yorubas chasing out all the Igbos in Lagos because the Yorubas have been in the land for hundreds of years before the Igbos arrived there?

Kukutente23:
Who dominated economically? You're asking the wrong question.

The below was you:

Kukutente23:
Because they evolved into a democracy by the general will of the people unlike Nigeria where it is forced on us

Kukutente23:
The people evolved democratically out of the oppressive effects of being dominated economically

So, I repeat.

How did the people you claim "evolved democratically out of the oppressive effects of being dominated economically" (which incidentally, I agree with), evolve "democratically out of the oppressive effects of being dominated economically"?

As in, what exactly made the people evolve?

Kukutente23:
Does UK allow unions? How do private companies in UK view unions

Some companies have unions and many don't.

Many private companies take care of their employees so much that unions are unnecessary. You are more likely to find unions in government employ than in the private sector for that reason.

The UN workers’ rights watchdog, the ILO, has slammed the UK’s anti-union drive and called on ministers to bring UK union laws into line with international law.

The ILO demanded the UK government ensure that current and future legislation respects international law – representing another blow to the government’s anti-union agenda.
https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/un-workers-rights-watchdog-slams-uks-anti-union-drive-and-calls-ministers-respect

Kukutente23:
This is where you summarily tagged me tribally. You can see that you summarily tagged me based on my opinion. That is the forte of bigots. People can hold opinion based on experiences or perception and not necessarily because they belong to or do not belong to a particular tribe

"Perhaps" , I said, and I asked you to correct me if I'm wrong, so it's not a tag.

If you were from a region that has an almost equal Muslim-Christian divide, I'd have asked you if you fear the Muslims you encounter in your daily dealings, and also how they have imposed Sharia on you, but you refused to answer, likely because your experience does not support your false claim.

Personally, I find it amusing that a bigot against Muslims in a country you seem to know nothing about would be fearing the imposition of Sharia that is not being imposed on us just because dump tells you to instead of basing your opinion on your experiences or perception. And I find it amusing too that my opinion based on my experience and perception of living in said country, and all the evidence provided opposing your opinion, counts for nothing as far as you are concerned.

Anyway, I'm done here. Do not forget to tell me you told me so when Sharia is imposed on us in UK.

Ade a pẹ lori.

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