₦airaland Forum

I feel many think the Obidient Movement is only about Obi, but fail to understand it is an ideology that will encompass the Obidience of Nigerians.

Or would anyone like to argue with me that Nigeria will not improve if we Nigerians obedientlu to do that which is right and proper, and not that which is corrupt and wrong?

Obi himself does not seem to understand this fact, or know how he is being useful for the good, which is very sad. But then, I doubt Jesus would have realised what we make of him today neither.

In fact, I better write to tell him, I guess, and be like the prophets God sent to some kings, though I know for certain that I am not worthy.

kayjordan:
The UK has evolved with lots if Indians taking over various sectors. Sadiq Khan and other Indian politicians in the UK wouldn't and shouldn't mix politics with religion. Politics is a system, religion is an application.

It is not only foreigners who "shouldn't mix politics with religion", especially in the diverse society of UK with its many Gods.

Our previous Prime Minister's head of communications, Alastair Campbell, once famously said: "We don't do God." But Tony is doing a lot of God now he's no more in office I dare say, having found God is done a lot outside UK where he mostly operates now. Kemi Badenoch, on the other hand, seems to be doing God, and I'm waiting for the election next week to see God do her.

kayjordan:
Henry the eighth in my educated opinion was selfishly crafting Christianity to suit himself. Whether he was used to chase Christianity out of England, remains a matter of public opinion.

Indeed he was being "selfish". While many think it was about his sexual needs, he wanted the money that was going to Rome to end up in his own coffers. This we know by the stripping of the Catholic churches he embarked on and the tithes paid remaining in Britain. But while he was selfishly putting his bits where he wanted and the money in his own pocket, some were using the opportunity to kill God in the society and in schools, and only managed to completely kick Gods out of schools in the 1980-90s when prayer became non-mandatory.

Nowadays, religious study can not be preaching or the promotion of one god or religion, but the impartion of the knowledge of all gods and religions so people may know as opposed to merely believe like they did in the past.

By the way, this makes me wonder if I might not be comparing now to a more distant past while you are being more current than I am. I can't get out of my mind that church attendance was mandatory for some professionals (like teachers, for instance, and the community doctor and butcher) at a point in time, but not anymore.

kayjordan:
This interesting piece shows religion is beyond Christianity in the UK. It's about Islam, Buddhism, race and culture etc as I've mentioned somewhere in our overwhelmed thread list in the past.

Glad you noticed. In fact, there are some who are proposing the CofE start include everyone who enters the church grounds for any reason at any time to be counted as attendance. So, if you rent our hall for Yoga or a badminton club meeting place or for use as a pentecostal church, or even just to meet the local Member of Parliament who uses it once every month, you'd be countrd as a church attender. Our ground are used as a shortcut to the station, and it's being suggested by some that we count them too. We are that desperate to increase our numbers, lol.

kayjordan:
Conclusion:
Despite the static Church Attendance in the UK, some people in the UK are still lifting the Bible which now clears the primary argument - "the Bible reading".

If you have any objection, I'm willing to hear from you.
Cheers!

Bible reading has indeed increased. So no objection to that.

Despite UK being a secular society, more people than before will definitely read the Bible, the King James Version being a foundational text of the nation. Even atheist me advises new immigrants to read the Bible to understand the country they live in, and I tell them that the lines on the road and the order of society is based on the KJV. But that does not mean they should believe it, because believe is not what the British do. We aim to understand it and ourselves instead. As for the British themselves, I can assure you that Bible reading and church attendance has decreased. The latter is obvious from the number of churches that have had to close because of falls iin attendance and revenue. The complaint is that they are being turned into mosques and pubs. The Saint John's that I go to has to rent its hall out to a pentrcostal church to pay bills. That hall used to be the gallery that was used for the overflow from the main church in its hay day when it used to fill up, but is no more required since the 70s due to a fall in attendance. Our congregation of about 100 is mostly Nigerians and Carribeans, with like 6 whites, which includes the vicar and his family. Lately, Indians seem to be increasing too.

But let's allow time to pass so we see more clearly. I personally expect churches like Winners, Redeem and other imported churches and religions to continue to grow, as they are, to cater to the increase in migrants. The Church of England will however continue to diminish in attendance and number of operating churches due to the abandonment of natives and the inability to attract new congregants. There are those complaining already that we don't worship Christ there, and they use the fact we have appointed a woman as Archbishop, in contradiction to the Bible, to establish that point. Some can't understand that we evolve in the land of Darwin, who, incidentally, is interred in a Church.

His name is Michael. And today, I bought him a large bottle of Evian Water because of you lot.

I have never bought such expensive water for myself! I drink cheap Thames Water from the tap.

And no, I do not want to love him!

budaatum:
She sees something worthy and admirable in you.

There's a hairdresser on my street who opens early and closes very late. I always greet him when I walk past his shop, and give him Malt too when I buy in the market and money every Christmas. And one day he met me in the off-license next to his shop and paid for my Guinness. He has never done my hair before, and I don't even know his name. (I must ask him next time I pass).

I admire him for his hard work, and for being the very nice respectful man that he is.

I found this interesting. It points to the increase in immigrants.

One in three of those attending a religious service on a weekly basis are to be found in a mosque, mandir, gurdwara, temple, or synagogue rather than a church. Moreover, among those aged under 35, less than half of those attending a religious service on a monthly basis are to be found inside a church. Rather than pointing to a revival of Christianity, the patterns of religious observance among Generation Z seemingly point to Britain becoming an increasingly more religiously diverse country, albeit one that is still largely secular in its everyday practice.

https://natcen.ac.uk/publications/there-religious-revival-britain

Kayjordan, thanks for your response. Please know that I do not want to win. I just want us to have correct information so that we may know, because working on wrong assumptions is like building our house on sand. The wind will blow and tear it down.

Incidentally, I am discussing with someone in USA who is insisting that Muslims are taking over in UK. And their evidence is that Muslim Sadiq Khan is our mayor. i, of course, laugh when I tell her the majority of people who voted for Sadiq Khan are mostly non-Muslims. This is his third term, and he has not spoken about introducing Sharia law yet.

She thinks UK is a Christian nation, lol, when in truth we are a secular nation, and have been since Henry VIII chased out Catholicism. People don't understand that behind him, some people were using him to chase God out too. Today, if a politician mentions Jesus or Allah or God too much here while campaigning, we'd rather elect Satan. We the people rule in Britain, and not any Gods whom we hope stay in their heavens and rule there, while we humans rule the earth and subdue it and multiply and be blessed.

Please know that I do not presume that my "data" and "facts" are in any way absolutely correct. I can not be so perfect in collecting the data and facts, and nor do I believe those who collect the data and facts that I present are perfect neither. I merely present them as anecdotal evidence that supports what I myself observe with my semi-blind eyes and my limited human understanding.

Greetings.

kayjordan:
Dear Budaatum,

I apologize for replying you late.

Thank you for sharing this information piece with me.

We are humans with limitations and due to our limitations, we are prone to make mistakes or judge our world differently.

The post by the Guardian addresses the false news been peddled as accurate for a long time. Just as I mentioned in our earlier banter, we can "only" report the facts - we can't invent them.

The more facts you present determines your win and the more facts i present would determine my win.

If your current data is absolutely correct, then your motion on religiosity in UK becomes valid - nevertheless, truth is always hard to find - only consensus truth like data-reports are easier to accept as true.

I will investigate this new development and get back to you if needed.

Cheers!

ALHAJIJUJU:
Of course there is payment from Mat

How much payment, please?

No one is suggesting people should not dress decently, but even if women walk around naked, that is not an excuse for men to lose control of themselves and claim the equivalent of "the devil made me do it"! And it is definitely not an excuse a teacher should use anywhere in the world and get away with it except in some backward place where men are grunting indisciplined animals the like of who can not resist their own daughters and sisters.

SpencerForbes:
Look around you, can’t you see classrooms for people to learn discipline? Boys don’t even dress seductively and women still seduce them how much more men that the west are trying so hard to emasculate? I hate the excuse that "this is how they do it in America," as if we must import their lack of standards. America we both know is the ancient Roman Empire of our generation 🙄


If you teach your daughters and the next generation how to dress properly, the rate of indiscipline in schools will naturally drop because you aren't creating an environment for it.

The issue is that some people hate taking responsibility. They’ll act or dress a certain way, and the moment there's a reaction, they start crying foul. If you’re an adult, fine—dress how you like—but don't encourage that same indecency in kids. You can’t train a grown person but it’s easy to train kids.


WE ARE NOT AMERICANS! Let the children grow up dressing decently. And please, stop using the "Burqa" as a straw man argument. You and I both know there are a thousand ways to dress modestly without it being a Burqa 🙄

Provide evidence for your, "Christianity is banned in Israel", please.

I have found nothing to support your claim.

Tenrack:
a strong woman in love? Mba na

I don't get you. Explain your "love" bit, please.

SpencerForbes:
Sexuality doesn't care about your degree; it respects discipline. You can have a BSc in Education or Religion, but if you lack discipline, you will still fall.

So go get some discipline please, and some mind development too while you are getting, instead of telling me how weak you are and can not resist the length of a girl's skirt!

One, after all, wouldn't be rambling all this your excuse where the length of one's own sister or daughter's skirt is concerned, I hope.

DeepSight:
I cannot emphasize enough that I dont assert it to be true that we are hallucinations or insist that the concepts of virtual reality or simulation theory are real. I am agnostic, I dont know, and needless to say everyone has to live their life on the presumption of reality. Otherwise you are cooked.
Its just a speculation on reality and for me, there can be endless possibilities as to what this mystical thing called life really is, and the truth, I am guessing is probably waaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what we can even guess at.

I am not an agnostic on this subject, Deep. I am an atheist. And not just some atheist who believes or guesses or hallucinates that theos do not exist, but one who knows that theoses do not exist and are hallucinations that some create in their own heads and believe exist somewhere. So, perhaps kindly resist including me in your "we", because I am definitely not "we" with you on this and such subjects.

The below is from a book. I'll look for it and share, but in the meantime perhaps consider Cicero's, De Natura Deorum, though it's not so well revised. Neither book is responsible for my atheism. Note.

Found it.

DeepSight:
What leads black people to have such inferiority complex that they say things like this -

nlfpmod

Their impossibility of infinite regression of causes, or the assumption of it, is what makes a person reason like that.

They have regressed only one level deep, but for fear of regressing deeper to find answers to what they use to justify their claim, they create some imaginary made up cause and believe it is the cause and disregard any other deeper causes.

Gbadugbakun:
Bro you're not nice

I am going to hell.

DeepSight:
Au contraire, thinking is definitely a way to prove existence because anything that thinks must be existing and remember the challenge is one that a person poses to himself which helps him affirm his own existence. As you yourself noted well, the very capacity to doubt your existence affirms it.


I really think Descartes had in mind sentient beings.

Feeling proves my existence much better, is what I think. I just need lift up a hammer and bring it down very swiftly where I presume my hand to be, and see if my mouth does not yell when, or rather, if, I feel the pain. But since I have no such doubts, the exercise would be pointless.

Do let me know if you'd like me to prove to you whether you exist or not, please. I don't need to see physical you neither, note.

DeepSight:
Lol. What I am talking about is deep. Its the thought that everything around us is just in our mind, or a projection of it. I have no way of validating that thought, neither do I assert it to be true in anyway. Its simply a thought. Speculation on reality.

Deep? Then, forgive my shallowness please.

You are not just in my mind, Deepsight, and neither are you something that I project, and that is the truth whether asserted or not, and as validated by me, and I don't really understand what I would gain by speculating or thinking about your reality and existence or not much less my own real existence, unless I doubt my senses and my mind that I have worked on a lot so I am not deceived by myself.

But, do please let me know if you would rather I deceive myself about your own and my own existence, because, if I try really hard, I bet I can, but I can not fathom why I'd do that to me, or moreso to you, whom I'd be disregarding and disrespecting if I did that to us.

Please know that I have observed your frustration on another thread when discussing the racism of Charlie with those I would call hallucinators, and I can't say, from what I perceived, that you appreciated their hallucinating one tiny bit!

The first below is from Through the Looking-Glass.
The second is my own cogito.

DeepSight:
Its better to say that thinking is not the only way to prove existence.

Okay, it may be better, but, thinking is not a way to prove existence at all, as far as I am concerned.

My telly on which I am watching the Miami F1 is not thinking anything but it exists, along with Kimi Antonelli who has also just won the race. The rice that I will cook to eat with the vegetable and fish that I cooked yesterday does not think and does exist, and I will not merely be thinking the I that I know exists is eating it when I lift up some with my fork and put in my mouth and eat to assuage the hunger that I am currently not just hallucinating that I am feeling.

If all those things do not actually exist and I am just hallucinating them into my own imaginary existence, I'd package it all like Disney does and sell it to you and co so you can somehow experience what I hallucinate, and I'd be "hallucinating" real millions of pounds into my real bank account and go buy myself a real spanking brand new red Ferrari with the real money I earn selling it. And I wouldn't even need the Ferrari salesperson to hallucinate that I paid real money, because I would have earned it from you and co.

Flip side is, the fact that I can hallucinate a thing does not make it real, and I better know the difference because, if my eye (mind) is that dim, I must be full of the dark stuff that emits from one's rear end!

Do forgive me for quoting from the holy book of fiction.

What a race!

Norris won yesterday's sprint!

DeepSight:
We would have to go into the very complicated discussion of virtual reality / simulated reality to address these.

No we do not "have to go into the very complicated discussion of virtual reality / simulated reality to address these", for we already have the simulated existing reality of our conversing in this virtual reality of Nairaland to determine yours and my own existence!

DeepSight:
But in summary what I am saying is that you can only deduce your own existence, nothing else.

I disagree! Because, for instance, and for some reason. you "deduced" the existence of NerdCat when you created this thread, or you wouldn't have created a thread to question NerdCat, whose existence you had already "deduced" and accepted before creating this thread. Unless you want me to believe you created this thread to question NerdCat whom you hallucinated into existence in your own mind. Which can be true, please note, so let me check that NerdCat is not an illusion you hallucinate into existence.

NerdCat, please, do you exist in your own right or are you an hallucination created by Deepsight?

And yes, Deepsight, it is still possible that NerdCat is a hallucination that you are having in your head, but I have no reason to trust that you are lying to me and simulating a NerdCat that does not exist in his own right. But please let me know if that is the case so I can correct my thinking.

Descartes cogito was evidence to himself that he must exist, as "the very act of doubting one's existence proves that a thinker must exist to do the doubting". It however is not evidence that anyone else would accept or need for Descartes existence, since, for starts, I can not enter Descartes head to check whether he thinks or not, and can simply observe Descartes existence with my own eyes.

If Descarte were a car driving along a road I am about to cross, the fact that he thinks or not would not be considered by me before I step into the road or not to cross. And if Descartes were a rock in the middle of a path, I would not check the rock's thinking before I swerve past or walk into it.

Besides, a rock and the car obviously exist, and neither thinks, as far as I know, so thinking is not evidence for existence.

DeepSight:
Valid and interesting interjections. I would however, contest that beyond knowing that one himself exists, we can know for certain that other people exist. Every other person could be a hallucination of some sort. "Cogito" does not infer the existence of other people.

How could you "be a hallucination of some sort"?

Am I braind dead or something, and therefore can not differentiate what actually really exists from what I hallucinate exists or does not exist in my head?

And how can I be a "hallucination of some sort"?

If I hit my existing hand with an existing hammer, is it my hand that does not exist, or the hammer or the existing severe pain that I will feel, that would not exist and that I am hallucinating?

lawani:
Do you think we need the average income earner to be making 1.3 million naira per month?

1.3 million naira per month is about £700 and $1000 a month, and is not much in a world where the price of a lot of things are internationally determined.

Samsung will not reduce the cost of a phone for me because I earn ₦100,000 per month, and the only car I would be able to buy is a 10 year old tokunbo that someone abandoned on the streets of Europe! And I think I deserve better than the rubbish that higher income earners have used in their country and thrown away as rubbish!

NerdCat:
That's a sharp reversal, but then again I don't suppose Descartes was making a causal claim about sequence. He was establishing certainty from the inside. The thinking is the evidence of existence, not its cause. You've reframed the epistemology as ontology. Those aren't the same argument.

I am not presenting it as the same argument, but as a different argument entirely, for consideration, if you will.

I think, only because I exist, and would not be thinking if I do not exist. But I do understand that some may not be like me, and their existence is proven by the fact that they think. Though note that I do not need to consider whether you think or not before I can determine your existence or not.

If I become brain dead at this particular moment, and become incapable of thinking, I will still exist despite having no thoughts in my head. I will still need food and have my bum cleaned, despite my lack of thought. Same as I obviously must still exist when I sleep and dream not.

SpencerForbes:
Unless you’ve actually stood in front of a classroom in a Nigerian secondary school, and as a woman yourself, you might not really get the full picture. You hardly ever see male students dressing to entice anyone or teacher except their usual swags, so it’s easy to underestimate the lengths these girls go to just to frustrate their male teachers.

In this generation, you’ll see an 18-year-old looking like she’s 26, then imagine that same girl in a short, tight uniform skirt. It takes a massive level of discipline to stay professional in that environment. Those teachers who keep their heads straight deserve all the accolades.

As a former teacher, I can’t count how many love letters I got from female students even after strict warnings so you might undermine it but it’s worth appreciating.

You are talking to a qualified former teacher with many years of experience, please note.

Your reasoning is like claiming women should wear a burqa so that I am not tempted, and I don't subscribe to that nonsense.

Where I live, if an underaged person dances naked in front of me and I forget my senses and claim I was frustrated and enticed, I will be enticing myself into jail!

I am the adult. I must be responsible and disciplined and teach responsibility and discipline to my students too and not abuse my position. And claiming I was tempted or frustrated disqualifies me from the job!

Please note that it is summer where I live, where women will wear pata and walk down the street, and it will be an offence to even whistle at them like men often do.

MASTAkiLLAh:
the internal chips get fried if you try removing them

That wouldn't stop Naijaman who would remove just for the solar and the lamp!

She sees something worthy and admirable in you.

There's a hairdresser on my street who opens early and closes very late. I always greet him when I walk past his shop, and give him Malt too when I buy in the market and money every Christmas. And one day he met me in the off-license next to his shop and paid for my Guinness. He has never done my hair before, and I don't even know his name. (I must ask him next time I pass).

I admire him for his hard work, and for being the very nice respectful man that he is.

SpencerForbes:
Kudos to all the male high school teachers that aren’t attracted to female high school students.

Like, kudos for not being pdofile perverts?

How so low in morals are we!

"NVIDIA is the company that's created a small enough chip, powered with 15 watts of power, so it can be powered by solar, and we can put that inside a street light", CPG chairman Edward Fitzpatrick told the BBC's Tech Life programme.

A company plans to put 15 watts powered NVIDIA chip in a lamppost in Nigeria where Nigerians are stealing metal from the roadside?

I just hope it's the company that is paying for it, and not government money!

Former Formula 1 driver and Paralympic champion Alex Zanardi has died at the age of 59.

lawani:
If you think it is no disadvantage to an economy if rent is fifty times what it is in another country or an automobile is sold twenty times the market price to the masses then there is no words for me to exchange with you. We are entirely not on the same page.

We are definitely not on the same page, and you are very free to ignore whatever I say if you think you know it all and only your own opinion counts!

It is not a matter of advantage or disadvantage, but about cost! Or will you tell gari seller to sell you their gari at a loss to themself because that's all you can afford?

If I buy land in Nigeria for ₦100, and spend ₦1000 building a house on it, and local government charges me like 10 kobo a year for rates, I might be incentivised to rent it to you for ₦10 a month, but you should not expect me to pay millions for land and spend tens of millions to build on it and then rent it to you at a loss!

I did not build my house because of your "cost of living", and there is always a bridge you can go live under if you can not pay rent to live in my house!

NerdCat:
I think, therefore I am. 🙃

Sorry for barging in. But I wonder how true this is, and if you have considered that 'you are, therefore you think'?

Essentially, did your "thinking" precede your existence, is what I am asking?