₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
If I understand you, you believe that your body is what you're all about and there's no spiritual side to you?

My body is not what I am all about, Kukutente23. I have an immaterial mind too that functions in my body, and I have addressed the spiritual aspect here and here too, and it is in fact my immaterial mind that is communicating with you in spirit at present, though I confess it is using my body to type my words since you can not read the content of my mind without my body manifesting it to you.

That does however not mean that whatever you want to call my spirit or soul or mind can exist outside of the body of buda, because when buda dies, that spiritual mind that is buda will stop existing and all that would be left is the dead corpse of buda. Well, that and my words here that would continue to manifest in spirit as long as Nairaland survives.

DeepSight:
I said obvious to me.

Like I too said my imaginary million pounds in my imaginary bank account is obvious to me! It's not like you will argue its not obvious to me I bet, until I insist you accept it as obvious to you payment for whatever you have to sell me.

Deep, everyone of us have things that are obvious to ourselves alone. And if I sit in my house with my obviouses to me, no one born will come and argue with me in my house that my obviouses are not obvious to me. But when I step outside and make that claim to people with brains, I should expect to be challenged or just be ridiculed and written off as braindead, I'd think, especially if I start arguing with them that it is obvious to me like air is obvious to everyone.

Out of interest, I'm currently in discussion with some older person who insists they used 'obvious to them' egbe (teleporting) when they were young. I asked how they came to England in the 60s, and they said they flew on a plane while telling me how ignorant I am because egbe is not obvious to me!

DeepSight:
Well for me, the existence of the soul is as obvious as the existence of air. The body is a cloak and i feel sensitive people should actually feel its weight clustered around their intangible self.

Mentioning FSM is always a sign to me that someone doesnt take a discussion seriously and only intends to mock the issues at play.

Deep, I am mocking! And claiming the "existence of the soul is as obvious as the existence of air" can only but be mocked.

I mean, there's lots of ways you can go about showing me air even if I don't believe, but I very much doubt you can show me a soul in any way possible.

But hey! My imaginary million pounds in my imaginary bank account, for me. Just believe, and I hope you have a real obviously existing spanking brand new red Ferrari to sell me. I'll buy.

Life2ways:
That is why I have my CV. Should I upload my CV here? Is it done that way?

You can at least list some of your skills here so people know what you might be good for, with the offer to send a cv to those who show interest. Better still is proper job sites and employers who might be interested in your skills.

Getting a job is a job in itself, and if you err in the little things like that who would trust you in the bigger things of actually paying you their money?

And please, dump that "deserve" ideology! No one owes you anything on this earth we live on, and what it says about you is not good nor profitable for you.

DeepSight:
Its no use since you dont believe in souls from your answer.

The fact I need to believe already invalidates it as far as I'm concerned.

It's like claiming the Spaghetti Monster is real because I believe it exists. And my response will be, in my stupid head and in the heads of the brainless people I am able to convince it exists in their heads too. And if I can do that, I'd rather convince people to sell me a spanking brand new red Ferrari for the imaginary million pounds in my imaginary bank account or they should just be my slaves.

Some read Giordano Bruno for understanding, Deep, while some read it and believe.

Edojoma:
Pls, I continue, let me ask u this question, it will determine if I will continue or not..

Are u a Muslim??

No, I am not a Muslim. And even if I were a Muslim I would not stupidly go and do what some human being wrote in a book some 1400 years ago and claimed some god said I should stupidly do that today.

Even if a god came and personally told me that rubbish, I'd tell that god to go do one and die, and I'd kill that god myself if it does not voluntarily kill itself like most intelligent Muslims on earth would do too, and that's why only a few stupid ignorant Muslims do what was done here!

DeepSight:
Interesting question. Personally I would say that the soul is attached to the ethereal magnetic aura of the body.
But let budaatum answer.

I've answered. Now I have a question for you.

What is the "ethereal magnetic aura of the body"?

Kukutente23:
In which part of the body is the soul captured? The head, heart, stomach or the reproductive organ?

The imaginary soul, you mean?

You might as well ask me where the Spaghetti Monster lives!

And my answer would be, in your own head, since I don't accept the idea of a soul at all, or the Spaghetti Monster and other imaginary gods and fairies and goblins.

Edojoma:
Bro, dey calm down... It's in ur quran, so wat dey did is right, dey are practicing their religion according to the quran.

Even if it is in the Quran that was written centuries ago, that is no reason to remain stupid and refuse to evolve, and is like claiming slaves should obey their master because it is written in a book, instead of abolishing slavery!

What they did is very wrong, and if their Allah or God condones such nonsense, that Allah should be taken to the bottom of a river and its head bashed in with a rock. But since Allah is imaginary made up crap, I'd gladly settle for the bashing of the heads of the stupid ignorant idiots who think this is acceptable!

Please don't just vent anger on Nairaland at this.

Write to every leader you know to ask them if this is acceptable.

I have written to the contact below adding a link to this thread, and would be grateful if you can start there and post others we should all write to.

https://statehouse.gov.ng/contact-us/

Thank you in advance for tending to this matter.

I have also written to here.

DeepSight:
I find it very tiresome to blame the created being all the time when the creator clearly holds the driving wheel in the scheme of things.

Excuse me! but why would one not blame the created thing on the creator of the thing, especially if the "creator clearly holds the driving wheel in the scheme of things"?

I mean, if I kick your ass all over Nairaland, why blame me and not my creator who is driving my wheel?

DeepSight:
I dont think it is meaningful to discuss the body sans the soul by the way, otherwise you would be discussing a corpse.

This cracked me up.

But wouldn't a proper retort be, the corpse is separated from the soul and is in fact a corpse precisely because its soul has departed the living body?

It kind of does also counter Kukutente23's proposal that the soul is "not held captive by the body at any time". Since, as soon as the soul frees itself from the body that it is encaptured in, what's left is a corpse. And it is the soul living in the body that enables the body to have life.

Personally, I don't do soul and creator or fairies or that thing I mentioned once that offended you, and I'm just thought experimenting.

DeepSight:
I just love history and philosophy no end.

What they did to Bruno was unbelievable. That man was one of the brightest minds ever.

I have written a piece on it, sadly I cant share it here otherwise the whole of nairaland will discover who I am!

Many, the 99.9%, have not heard of Bruno or the brightness of his mind. And it is a pity you feel you can not share what you have written about him so it is not discovered who you are. I don't have that problem myself, because, my hidden gender.

I actually discovered him in my research about Rosicrucianism. Frances A. Yates wrote a wonderful book about his hermetic tradition. It was my annual reading for 7 years in my attempt to cement his ideas in my psyche. I kept giving it away and had to rebuy it as it acted as a syllabus to many other readings too.

Unfortunately, I hardly read books anymore! My last completed book was Heidegger (your nazi), where he described the 99.9%, and that took me years to listen to because I could not actually read it because my mind wondered at every sentence. I said years ago that I want to write more than I read, hence Nairaland, where I get to read what people like you write and I write in response. Here gives me the opportunity to be read and get feedback.

I'm at gmail if you feel like sharing. I'd be grateful and honoured and will keep your "discover".

rejoice4eva:
If only you can prove that this and many barbaric evils were not done under Islamic teaching, sharia or laws, then you are speaking the truth.
Unfortunately , you have no defense. It is the open and evident extremism, hypocrisy, jihadism, wickedness and gross ignorance and violence that is inherently visible in the religion of peace all over the world.
This is wicked and shameful

Hear yourself say it is "open and evident extremism, hypocrisy, jihadism, wickedness and gross ignorance and violence", and yet practised by only a few.

Or would you want to try to convince me that the learned moderate unhypocratic kind knowledgeable Muslims, in say Yoruba land, would be this ignorant and stupid?

Yes, it is wicked and shameful and very extreme and ignorant, and is practised by a minority few Muslims. And brushing all Muslims with such ignorance is ignorant too.

Life2ways:
You sound so conclusively. How much do you know about me, my skills and qualifications, my employibility?

Nothing! And that's the point. Though I do know you think you "deserve", which says a lot about you.

How can you be seeking employment and not state your employable skills? Do you think you are marketing yourself well enough for a serious employer to consider you if you don't advertise your skills, especially if more serious job seekers are advertising themselves better?

Its like you are selling skills but place your skills under a bushel where it can not be seen while competing with those who put their own skills on a candlestick where it giveth light unto all that are in the house so they are employed.

I can just hope you consider.

victory36:
This is the nonsense y'all always say when stuff like this happens. Have some dignity.

I have enough dignity, thank you very much. And I say what I say because I happen to know many Muslims who would not condone this ignorant barbarity masked under Islam.

QuinQQ:
You make a lot of sense. The danger though, is to subconsciously believe something is so just because someone said authoritatively in a book that it is so

That danger of subconsciously believing is exactly what a conscious being must constantly be aware of. And it involves questioning ones mind continuously to ensure it is conscious and not unconsciously believing.

I must say that I am very fortunate in this regard, because every time my subconscious attempts to believe a thing, the buda in me would question and ridicule me for being so lazy. It's so tiring at times that I want to murder me to just let me be, but goodluck with that, I'm told, so I've learnt to live and let my mind live in me.

Reading widely and a lot does help, I confess. Because after reading a book that seems worthy of being believed, another book will come along and present one with its opposite that sounds equally believable and confronts one with contradictions that oppose each other and can not both be believed.

Nothing forces one to attempt to square a circle more than that, and the attempt is what grows the mind so it becomes conscious and disbelieving so one may instead try to know.

DeepSight:
+
Do you think there is spirituality to life.

Found it. And having read my response, I believe it is adequate.

Every post I read (especially written by someone deep like yourself) is read in its spiritual sense, within my capability at least. I not only read the words but consider their deeper meaning and implication and utility.

Hermeneutics, is the word that springs to mind as a way of looking at things deep enough to consider their spirit. A spiritual way of considering that word alone would involve many years of research and contemplation and introspection to discover its (deeper) spiritual meaning and implication and then giving it a body so it becomes incorporated in one.

The spiritual acceptance of a creator has implications that defy and are inconsistent with reality, and result in assumptions and thinking like the one expressed in this thread for which the Buddha would prescribe the Four Noble Truths.

DeepSight:
You are an interesting being, that is for sure.

How dare you insult the buda? lol!

You are very interesting too, Deepsight. For not many have delved deep enough to know what Atum is, or mention Giordano Bruno and Heidegger.

By the way, I'm looking up where you asked me about spiritualism. I have something to say about it.

MrsAyomide:
The beauty of Islam..

More like, the beauty of ignorance!

Most Islamic societies do not practise this barbarism.

Life2ways:
As a Nigerian, don't I deserve a job and a good job at that?

No, you do not deserve any job just because you are a Nigerian or a human being for that matter. And the fact you think you "deserve" is actually a reason to not hire you!

Employers do not hire people because people "deserve" or because they are being altruistic or feel sorry for you but because employers have a need for you and the skills you have to offer that add value and increase the profit they make by utilising your skills which they hire and pay you for.

Life2ways:
Why am I feeling so frustrated in life right now?

You are likely feeling frustrated because you have nothing to offer. Sorry for my brutality.

If you had a skill to sell to someone for money, they will likely hire and pay you for it, but because you have no skill to offer you are frustrated.

Life2ways:
A close mouth they say is a close destiny. I'm speaking up now.

But here you are still with your closed mouth!

Or do you not see people acquiring skills and opening their mouths on their curriculum vitaes to loudly solicit for employment? But here are you crying and wailing and thinking that is opening your mouth.

Life2ways:
Someone here could have a job for me.

I would love to see that someone myself too.

Sorry I am being brutal, Life2ways, but I'd be evil not to tell you that life and no one owes you a job.

thesolutions:
Now I can assume we are in the same page.
Enlightenment could be false if ones conviction is false. What others call enlightenment could be ignorance propagated as knowledge.

Yes! I can claim or be convicted that I am enlightened, while in truth I may actually be ignorant. I can even be convinced that what I propagate is true when in truth it is false. And that is why a person's enlightenment can not be a personal claim, but a thing that others must determine.

All I can do is present (or propagate) my case or opinion and trust those with minds to contemplate and reason will determine if it is ignorance or worthy to be considered and checked to be known. And even I must consider responses to check if my own conviction is true or false.

Know that I fail woefully if I am merely believed. Here is a text that would apply to me if that is what I intend or achieve.

DeepSight:
Well said.

Thank you for provoking my mind to attempt to say it so well. I shall continue to endeavour to say it better.

Hmm. I sound patronising! I mean my own and not yours I quoted. I can not express my gratitude to you enough for sharpening my iron and provoking my mind to work, even when we disagree.

DeepSight:

Do not think I failed to notice you are one of the 0.1% after much effort on my part.

If I can get deep into your sight, I definitely get into the minds of others too.

DeepSight:
I just think it leads nowhere because 99.9% of people will tell you that what they believe is the same as what they know.

And what "99.9% of people" say is a reason for me not to harp on, Deep?

I was not aware I was in some popularity contest, and I actually expect to be treated like the person who returned to Plato's Cave, as you are treating me here.

Whatever you or anyone claims to believe is believed because you do not actually know. And I do not expect most to accept this because most believers hardly ever do because camel eye needle enter is almost impossible for some.

DeepSight:
The nuanced difference is something you will harp on forever and never gain anything from. That's why I told you to just assume that people know.

I should assume like those who assume they know what they believe, deep? Create me in their image, why don't you please!

You are amusing me by thinking I am not aware that some of my words will fall along the path for birds to eat up, and some will fall on rocky places where there is not much soil and be scorched in the sun and wither because they have no root. And other seed will fall among thorns and grow up and be choked. Still some will fall on thinking minds where it produces a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.

As for gain. Jesus healed 10 lepers but only one appeared as his gain, we read in the book of fiction. But for me, you not listening, Deepsight, does not indicate that no one hears, and nor does anyone need to tell me I have made them consider the difference between belief and knowing, because some obviously have ears and hear, I have found in my time here, as opposed to what you seem to believe.

thesolutions:
I believe you are off. Experiences and experiment/proofs are not the same. In experience, we are not talking about work experience but patterns of events that occur without human control.

Like the consistent experience of the pattern of event of water falling on your head without human control?

thesolutions:
When it becomes consistent, it becomes a theory. And this theory when taught becomes knowledge, otherwise, it is a personal conviction/belief.
Knowledge involves sharing this theories with others.

I put it to you that your understanding of your experience may be wrong. And when you teach your personal convictions to others you may be propagating ignorance.

An example is those who claim "skool na scam", because they experienced school as a scam and formed personal conviction/belief that they consider to be theories, which they are obviously not.

DeepSight:
You have started again on this knowledge Vs belief thing. I have told you it's not a thing to keep harping on.

And I am telling you different. I'm also telling you it crops up in most arguments I see you involved in where people tell you their baseless beliefs, while you counter them with verifiable facts.

That said, why are you bothered about what I harp on about? Am I misusing your data by forcing your mind to consider?

panafrican:
How long has Zelenskyy been in power?

Just look at how deeply involved he already is in foreign wars in Africa and the Middle East.

I looked, and I did not see how deeply or that Zelensky is involved in foreign wars in Africa and the Middle East at all, so show me please.

As for how long Zelensky has been in power?

The answer is since since 20 May 2019. And he will likely remain in power until the war ends or he resigns, or is killed, because "Under Ukraine’s constitution, it is not legal to hold national elections during a period of martial law", which was imposed because Ukraine is under attack.

thesolutions:
I believe experience comes before belief.

Experience does not come before belief!

One actually believes because one lacks experiential knowledge. Once one has experiential knowledge one does not believe because one actually knows.

For example, you could say you believe the water falling on your head from the sky is rain because you experience a wet head, but when you look up and see that it is raining, as opposed to someone or thing dumping water on your head, you would most likely say you know it is raining

You may believe you have a million naira in your bank account, but after you've checked your bank account, you will know whether you have a million naira in your bank account or not.

Adam was made to believe (with no experience whatsoever) that he would surely die if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eve, on the other hand, did not believe she would surely die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So she checked with her own senses (experienced) so she may know if she would indeed surely die or not by plucking the fruit and eating it for the experience, and saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves and freed themselves from naked ignorant slavery in Eden and lived a very long time during which they ended up populating the entire earth, we read.

thesolutions:
Because reasoning is inconclusive.....

No it isn't! You can not arrive at conclusive solutions to anything unless you reason.

DeepSight:
You spotted this contradiction. Or Irony.

Of course I did, and I think thesolutions spots it too, hence:

thesolutions:
An ignorant person won't understand what the OP is saying let alone debating it.

thesolutions:
If you are taught to reason, then you are not reasoning. You are only expressing what you have been told. Because reasoning is inconclusive, you are trapped in a loop trying to find someone with different perspectives to get it of the loop. That is philosophy.

Sorry, thesolutions, but I very strongly disagree!

Reasoning does not mean "only expressing what you have been told", for that is the opposite of reasoning, and is more like believing. Reasoning means, learning to use ones brain to consider what one has been told.

Reasoning refers to the human capacity for logical, rational, and consecutive thought, enabling the drawing of conclusions, understanding causes, and making justifications.

Ref: https://www.nairaland.com/4923036/learn-reason-critically#74146576