₦airaland Forum

Meedon:
They don't know it was a mere cartoon. Does this signify that some religious text are just work of arts and does not actually carries the divine power being attributed to them.

Hmm. Now this is Intriguing.

I do not agree that religious texts are just work of arts. And I think they can "carry the divine power being attributed to them" simply because we humans attribute divine power to them.

First, religious, or religion, has various meanings, but for this purpose let me define it as something done regularly at a certain time and with reverence.

If we all congregate at a particular place to religiously worship a stone we artistically carved and attribute divininity to, we will also attribute power to it. So when we conquer the enemy who does not worship our stone, we will bow down and praise our stone and thank it for our victory.

As for "actually". Hell no, lol. And we'd find out soon enough how divinely powerless our stone is when the neighbour's stone conquers our stone.

That's the exact reason science, which I define here as 'use of the senses a la Eve', is now conquering religions, as its being understood that stone worship can not beat a bomb.

Basically, a new divine stone (science) is conquering the old divine stone (belief).

P.s. I've just finished watching Vikings: Valhalla. Its about the Vikings fighting against the death of their (old) religion and the spread of the new religion (Catholicism) in the Norse lands and Europe, amongst other things. I think if it was promoted in Nigeria, we'd ban it, lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi4YnwFT7Gk?si=GECUc9X0yngnEfVh

DeepSight:
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You yourself have repeatedly admitted that animals have a sense of time. Read your own posts carefully.

"A sense" now, as opposed to "a concept of"?

Is that like how you switch from god to an uncaused causer but claim it didn't create?

Read carefully what you call an admission, instead of your selective reading!

budaatum:
I mean, I can't imagine dinosaurs thinking it was 11pm or that it was 11 hours since their last meal, but I find it probable that they might have needed to have a concept of space though, since it would have been unlikely for them to chase prey that was a mile away.

I'd have imagined animals, to be more specific than "creature", would not have had a concept of time.

An elephant wouldn't set dinner for 7pm or know that it was a particular month of the year even, nor do I think it knew it would need to carry its pup in its belly for a specific amount of time before birthing.

Meedon:
I have read the Old testament countless times during my adolescent age. I used it to pass away time because my parents won't allow me to go out and play after school or church. I used to marvel at Yahweh's doings that period but when I become of age, I began to question these doings of His and I found out that he is barbaric and blood thirsty and did not deserve to be worshiped or praised.

Then I used to be very afraid of His hellfire, but now I don't fear it no more.

That's the same reason I read it. Fortunately, I'd read Homer and about the Greek gods, and had been introduced to Egyptian gods (they were the Amorc thing in the late 60s-70s when pa was immersed), so it was more fiction as opposed to a thing to be believed at the time. After all, it's not like anyone believed in Greek or Egyptian gods in the 70s, so why believe a book about Yahweh, I reasoned.

I was rather surprised to find people actually believed it when I finally did start going out and met believers. I was like, do you lot believe Aesop Fables too? But you should have seen how I was ganged up on, pretty much like triple has attempted to do here.

DeepSight:
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Good. You have said it all.

So you know that whatever we call the uncaused cause of all reality cannot be Yahweh.

Yahweh is simply a figment of the imagination of patriarchal ancient men.

There was a time when the idea of an intelligent designer was being promoted, even by some atheists, which I found comical.

The idea has kind of receded now, but it really was an attempt to introduce a god creator without using the word 'god', as in, traditional names like Yahweh, Allah, Obatala, Zeus, etc.

OLAADEGBU:
@triplechoice,

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it’s probably a duck.

https://www.nairaland.com/8566179/appeal-investigate-hidden-evidence-harassment#137550260

Probably? As in may be so or maybe not?

Ajẹ ku lanọ, ọmọ ku loni. Ta ni ko mọ pe ajẹ lo pa ọmọ, is indeed the logic of some, but thankfully the logic of few, who rather rely on credible facts instead of making crap up to believe.

DeepSight:
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Na why I like you be dis.

You can firmly tell anyone off. No respecter of persons.

And to add, a deeply logical mind.

He is my Lord!

LordReed:
Thank you DeepSight. You also have a special place in my mind.

And in mine too my Lord. Deepsight's sight is indeed deep, and I'm delighted he tasks my mind.

DeepSight:
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https://askabiologist.asu.edu/games-sims/bee-dance-game/introduction.html

Goodnight.

Sorry, but the above does not show bees having a concept of time, and is like claiming animals have a concept of time because they sleep or come out when it is dark at night, which is why they get confused when there's a full eclipse during the day.

Easyinfoguide:
Let’s reset the conversation:

Police escort service exists so that citizens don’t resort to hiring armed thugs.

We can hire police to be our armed thugs instead?

Police escorting should not be the a service of the police who should be investigating crime and accosting criminals!

They should instead licence private security firms to provide this service. And in fact, thankfully, Tinubu is reducing police involvement in this nonsense and has ordered the withdrawal of police officers attached to Very Important Persons across the country, directing that they be redeployed to core policing duties.

Maeve7:
I don’t think your location would help the guy who created this thread you posted the link to. Or do you think his would make a difference to you? His mental issues need professional care.

No, location is not the help he needs, nor does what he says about me matter to me one tiny bit, since he's shown he can't look and see and comprehend.

I posted it as an example of him making stuff up.

DeepSight:
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Look, I will rest my argument on bees.

Prove that they dont have a concept of time and space.

And that they didnt exist before humans.

End of.

Sorry, but I can't prove whether bees have a concept of time or not, just as you can't prove the existence of an uncaused causer.

What I can say is, time likely wasn't a thing bees were particularly aware of apart from sun up and sun down, perhaps.

As for bees existing before humans, I do feel something that evolved into bees likely existed before humans.

DeepSight:
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Certainly that is exactly what you have said, not I. And of course that's madness. Because it is self contradictory.

1. You said time did not exist before humans.

2. So how did 13 billion years exist before humans?

3. You even said humans created time.

Time, as in how we measure it, Deep, did not exist before humans.

There were no clocks before humans, and I don't think it was ever 11pm before humans invented the time of 11pm as a concept.

But forgive me for presuming you got the bit where I also said humans did not exist 13 billions years ago when the earth is assumed to have begun.

After all. I did say that too, or did I not?

DeepSight:
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You just keep contradicting yourself.

Difficult concepts explained by words we do not first define can come across that way, and is why I said the following at the onset Deep.

budaatum:
I might have not put mine across in a way that could be understood as intended. Its after all not the case that we can always put our points across as accurately as we intend they be received, as this thread has shown.

DeepSight:
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Again, confusion. Would you imagine that space within the EARTH was created by humans.

No, not at all. Least not within the entire earth. For that would be like claiming humans created the earth itself.

DeepSight:
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In this statement alone, of course you concede that humans could never be the creators of time.

Depending what time you mean please! Humans after all did create the fact its currently 11:23pm.

DeepSight:
It is sheer madness to say so, and you have contradicted yourself.

I so wish you'd resist the name calling.

DeepSight:
You dont have a clue what you are saying.

Okay deep.

LordReed:
You maliciously did not! Bad buda! LoLz.

Then I must have lovingly and kindly promoted it to you my Lord, if not maliciously.

Please let triplechoice know that his point has been proven to you, thank you.

DeepSight:
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You are the one that defined time as a measurement of a period and insisted that time was created by humans.

Yes I did. The confusion of not clarifying was clear from the onset, and was why I made the distinction.

DeepSight:
Space, by the same premise will be a measurement of distance, and surely created by humans.

And you are correct, except a lot of to and fro had occured prior to its presentation, in which the distinction had been fleshed out. And so as not to conflate, was made before addressing your space.

DeepSight:
Do you imagine that Dinosuars had no concept of time, passing periods, yesterday, today, tomorrow etc?

I wouldn't have thought dinosaurs had any concept of time whatsoever to be honest, nor of space in fact, though I'd need to hedge on the latter.

I mean, i can't imagine dinosaurs thinking it was 11pm or that it was 11 hours since their last meal, but I find it probable that they might have needed to have a concept of space though, since it would have been unlikely for them to chase prey that was a mile away.

DeepSight:
Do you imagine that every creature that ever existed before humans had no concept of time?

I'd have imagined animals, to be more specific than "creature", would not have had a concept of time.

An elephant wouldn't set dinner for 7pm or know that it was a particular month of the year even, nor do I think it knew it would need to carry its pup in its belly for a specific amount of time before birthing.

DeepSight:
There is no way any creature could exist if time did not already exist and its madness to say only one particular creature created time.

A thing existing, and a "creature having a concept of time", are not the same thing, I don't think. And yes, one cannot record a video of 8pm.

Note how many times I myself have mentioned 13 billion years ago, and that humans have existed only a fraction of that time. Surely you are not suggesting I've implied humans created 13 billion years. Or are you?

Humans did however split the years into months and use human numbers to denote them, though I can see how you might argue that it was the uncaused causer who created the cycle humans measure theconcepts we denote them with.

LordReed:
I agree there is nothing to fear in these things. It is just that in my neck of the woods if I must participate in family I cannot be associated with such things, talk about giving a dog a bad name in order to hang it. It is bad enough that I am openly atheist, add AMORC and it is all over. LoLz.

For those who are getting ideas, I prize family above almost everything else.

And this, giving buda a bad name in order to hang buda, is precisely what triplechoice has attempted to do here thinking buda or anyone else except FxMasterz who can't check evidence for himself, gives a flying f what name triple decides to give to buda.

Comical is what I think it is, that those who hardly know me would think I care what they think of me, as I'm not ashamed nor need to hide the fact that I am an atheist from my own close family, which I've always been, and never been a member of any esoteric organisation.

Just the thought of paying subs is enough to deter me if nothing else apart from I can't even finish reading their very interesting free stuff.

DeepSight:
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No way!

You have obviously seen the absurdity of what you are saying. Time was created by humans? What a joke.
Just answer if space was also created by humans and let me go to sleep.

Its a simple question, isnt it?

Space has not been presented in any particular context, Deep. And definitely not in the context by which time was brought into the discourse of your uncaused cause.

Time, as in 10pm, is created by humans, just as space as a confined area of say 10 acres, is created by humans.

Space, as in outer space, is of a different nature to the above, and exists regardless of humans, just as a span of time of a period of 13 billion years or even ten minutes is not created by humans, despite the fact that humans created the concepts to describe both.

This is the distinction you fail to note.

FxMasterz:
But in this case, you have been confirmed to have promoted the manifestos of only one candidate while paying lip services to the others as a matter of disguise.

Not true, FxMasterz. You have not confirmed that buda only promoted the books of AMORC!

You would have seen other posts about other organisations and books that buda has promoted if you had bothered to follow the links that triple has provided so you may confirm instead of just believing what you've been told to!

Below is a link to a post by buda about freemasons
https://www.nairaland.com/85581/morals-dogma#1580271

Here are threads created by buda about the Bible.
https://www.nairaland.com/5822532/holy-bible-english-standard-version

https://www.nairaland.com/4437570/gospel-according-luke

And here is buda promoting Evolution!
https://www.nairaland.com/5238668/evolution-101

DeepSight:
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I am afraid, as I have said, I dont think its a good use of time to continue this conversation with you.

You may also say that Space was created by humans and did not exist before humans.

The premises are way too absurd to be discussed.

It would indeed, be a waste of both time and space.

Deep, when you respond, you are indeed spending, or as you say, wasting, your very own time and space, both of which are more complex than you are suggesting.

But I'll stick with time for now, thank you. We can do space at a later time, if you are willing.

DeepSight:
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It's simple enough to describe but since you say time didn't exist before humans I don't think there is any point wasting time on this conversation.

Funny. Do you mean you don't want to waste one instant of the exact time now, or is it a period of time like a few minutes or so that you do not want to waste?

One is an instance of the time at any moment in time like 8pm, which is a human invention, while the other is a period of time as measured in units created by humans like 10 minutes. And both are recent human inventions to denote actual moments and the passing of time.

You should perhaps look up time on wiki or somewhere to see that it is more complex than you are suggesting.

DeepSight:
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As to taking a video of time moving, oh please. Certainly you can take a picture or a video of a clock.

Of course I can take a picture of a clock at a particular time, say, 8:30pm. And I can also take a 10 minute video of a clock showing time passing or "moving", as you want to call it, from say, 8:30pm to 8:40pm.

What I can't do is take a video of time at 8:30pm, especially if I use a clock with seconds. And I can't take one single picture of time "moving" from 8:30pm to 8:40pm.

But would the picture and the video represent the same thing to you Deep?

DeepSight:
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I refer to infinite and stagnant time .....

Infinite describes something that is without limits, endless, or immeasurably large.

Stagnant describes something as not flowing, moving, or developing.

Does the above not describe exact opposites of each other, or do you have different meanings for them please?

LordReed:
I have to confess that I am somewhat biased. I love budaatum even though we don't always agree. Budaatum is the most eclectic person I have interacted with. In all my interactions with budaatum I never see any reticence about sharing knowledge of any sort. I was very much aware when budaatum started that AMORC thread, in fact we even discussed my own brush with AMORC. Budaatum has always shared knowledge at any opportunity to do so. So the way your accusation came and the way others are describing budaatum is amusing to me. However, I do respect you and I always treat what you say to me with due seriousness that is why I put aside my love for budaatum and listened to you with an open mind. I even said to budaatum that it is possible you are just misunderstanding. Maybe it's my bias but I never see any malice in budaatum's interactions, same way I see you but you obviously don't have to interact with anyone you don't want to.

This is nonsense, my Lord. Malice intended!

Be objective and completely put aside your bias and love please!

Did buda promote AMORC to you?

DeepSight:
I did not replace it with "period." Read carefully.
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Let me ask you the simplest of questions. Before humans existed, did days exist?

A period of time that humans eventually decided were days existed. Time itself did not exist, since time is our own human measurement of the period of time that passed in a day.

DeepSight:
Before humans existed, did time exist?

No. Deep, time did not exist before humans existed.

Time is a measurement of a period of time as measured by us humans, and which we did not even start measuring till relatively recent.

DeepSight:
Think really deeply before answering please.

Kindly do not insult me! I always think deeply.

DeepSight:
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Again, if you say humans created time, just think - did time exist before humans existed.

Yes or no.

Read above please. It is not a yes or no answer.

DeepSight:
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In this discussion we are speaking about what brings something else to be, or makes something else move. Therefore there is no problem here, save that you instinctively rebel against the word "create" because you imagine it requires a creating being.

Sorry, but I think you are entering the low blow position with your "save that you instinctively rebel".

A thing that is created requires a creator. You have even provided one and called it the "uncaused cause", though I insist you conflate create with cause.

You might as well call it the "uncreated creator", just like Aristotle called his the "unmoved mover".

Do correct me however. Did your uncaused cause not create?

DeepSight:
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Where have you ever seen time moving? Is it not objects that move within time?

I have just finished a meeting that began at 7pm. Its not 8pm. A period of time of an hour passed, and that passed time is a sort of movement from one point in time (7pm) to another (8pm).

It was not still 7pm when the meeting finished, because the time at the end was 8pm.

DeepSight:
You know, if you really think time moves, just take a video of it moving, I want to check something.

Are you seriously asking me to record a video of the exact time now, which can't possibly be a video but a photo, or should the video be for a period of time of say 10 minutes starting now and ending 10 minutes afterwards?

Surely, you can do either for yourself if you really do want to check something, no?

FxMasterz:
Can you answer my question?

There are many presidential candidates in Nigeria. If I promote Tinubu or anything that has to do with him, whom do you think I believe in among the available candidates?

FxMasterz, if you promote a candidate, you are promoting a candidate, but if you [i]post manifestoes of all candidates, as opposed to promoting just one candidate, then I would personally consider my self føolish to think you are promoting any one candidate.

In fact, logic would tell me you are 'promoting' all candidates if anything, and I wouldn't then use the word "promote" to describe what you would have done. I definitely wouldn't claim you are a member of all the parties of all the candidates you supposedly promote. Would you?

DeepSight:
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What caused periods then, if you like. Time is not a measure. Time is self existent and permanent, intangible. It is the void into which events are interpolated.

I do not agree that time is existent and permanent. Its why you yourself have considered replacing it with period.

I'd go further and claim "period" is a human invention, since it is something we measure from one point to another. Period is not a thing we create. We just measure it.

Its like claiming distance is existence and permanent, while in truth it is a measurement between 2 points.

A day is a period of time between two points too.

DeepSight:
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But you just said humans created time. Can you see the problem?

Yes, I said humans created time. And I mean its measurement between two points, and whatever time it is at any point in time.

I think you are conflating cause with create, which my pedantism would not allow me to do.

DeepSight:
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I refer to infinite and stagnant time which self exists and cannot but exist. In philosophy, it is a necessary thing, as opposed to a contingent thing.

Sorry, but time is not stagnant, and neither is it constant nor permanent. It is never 7pm forever, but will be minutes past if you wait long enough.

FxMasterz:
You've researched him, so I cannot know better than you about him.

Interesting.

Personally, I like doing my own research so I may know, but I understand your need to believe.

FxMasterz:
Thanks for this explanation.

You've researched him, so I cannot know better than you about him. The link you provided in your response actually nailed your points. After promoting Amorc in some of his earliest posts, he still had posts where he promoted Amorc materials and vehemently defended his action when called out by readers. That's revealing.

Budaatum surely belongs to the cult but supports atheism in debates against Christians. I have every reason to believe this until he clears the air about this duplicity.

So. "promoted Amorc materials", makes you believe buda "belongs to the cult".

This must be how some peoples' minds must work I guess, as Triple's too works, but forgive me for not bothering to clear the air about your belief, since its your belief, which you are very free and entitled to believe if you wish.

I know you did not create the idea of caused and uncaused. It is the underpinning of just about every religion and ideology that has a creator, and I did mention Aristotle's 'unmoved mover', which is the same thing.

DeepSight:
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What is time and what created or caused it.

Time is the measure of the passing of periods.
Time it was created by human beings for that purpose of measurement.

Nothing caused time. Or rather, human need to measure caused humans to create time.

Please know that I suspect this is not the "time" you mean, but your question is no different to 'what is a ruler'. So, I suggest a rephrase.

FxMasterz:
I apologize. I have mixed you up with sonmvayina. Sonmvayina was the one who speaks highly of Marduk and even believes spirit wives and husbands are good for humans. Not Buda.

My apologies.

Thank you very much for this Sir. I did assume a mixup and just wanted it confirmed.

Respect.

Maeve7:
I don’t care about people’s location. I can discuss ideas without having personal information. Users such as Bemeruca and Basilico give themselves away anyway, rather sooner than later.

Some are not like you Maeve. Some make something up to fill the gaps when they do not have personal information.

https://www.nairaland.com/8566179/appeal-investigate-hidden-evidence-harassment#137550260