₦airaland Forum

Gombs:
Good..But I have decided so, so has million others, why do some guys still hunt me for it?

Who can even presume to stop your decision to tithe? Nobody has that right after all, we are not in North Korea. What these discussions are geared towards correcting are the lies, wicked manipulations and scriptural misrepresentations in 'powerful teachings' from 'renowned mog' like these below

Oyakhilome

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a robber: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

WHY WE GIVE OUR FIRST FRUITS? (THE BENEFITS)
We are commanded to give it [Prov 3: 9-10, Ex 22: 29] By giving your first fruit, you secure and sanctify the rest of your fruits ( Rom 11: 16) We give our first fruits that the blessing of God may rest upon us ( Eze 44:30) By giving it, you demonstrate your appreciation for God and the things He has done in your life (Deut 26:10 – 11) It releases the anointing upon your life. The bible says thy presses shall burst out with new wine. New wine symbolizes the anointing ( Prov 3:9) God is delighted in our obedience to His word; for it is better to obey than to sacrifice [I Sam 15: 22] If you don’t give your first fruit, God will go after it because it belongs to Him ( Ex 4: 22 – 23) Anyone who holds back his First Fruit exposes himself to evil. As God said to Israel. [Jeremiah 2: 3]....

WAYS OF GIVING FIRST FRUITS
1. New Job: First salary package
2. New Year: First salary or first income ( for those who don’t earn a salary)
3. Old Job (Promotions) – Increase i.e. the difference between the old and new salary. (If your heart condemns you go ahead and give all. He is looking for something to multiply back to you).


https://www.facebook.com/READRHAPSODYOFREALITIES/posts/651164134943691

Adeboye

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty or eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

Pat Robertson

Quoting Malachi, Robertson responded, “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devourer’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devourer,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

https://www.nairaland.com/1541026/pat-robertson-tells-elderly-woman

Among others too numerous to mention.

As long as these lies continue to be promoted by ministers, its inevitable for the hounding to continue. Folks who wish to pay nine-tenths instead of the tenth are free. Its their money but its imperative to let them know the true picture: Those messages up in those quotes aren't Christian in any way and they should stop being promoted as such.

LambanoPeace:
Hello all!

I've missed much. IPPC is really a priority now. My shout out to Gombs, Candour, Nannymcphee, and Vooks

#SpecialGrace

Greetings to you too

nedu2000:
How can the police be asked to probe themselves,we are not kids.
Just apologise to the legislators and sack the IGP,though he's but merely a pawn,receiving orders from ogas higher than the speaker (d president,pdp chair,1st lady,senate president,deputy president/senate pres)

Or maybe they set him up for failure so that Mbu can become IG sharply??

This is me thinking aloud but with Nigerian politicians, you can never know

Act...think later. Why??

Image123:
I see I've been a bad mentor to you, you didn't complete your training as you've only learnt bad thing half-baked. I apologise.

You're bad at everything you've set out to do on NL. Not just now.

Meanwhile, keep seeking the attention.....

Image123:
Oh my mature spinefull red-herring speciality. You cannot hide your lack of under standing and grasp of the New Testament/Covenant and the Church.

Keep knocking on the door for attention.....I might be tempted to oblige you

Image123:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, habaaaaaaa. Has this fellow's handle being hacked? I explained this same point to him several times but he vigorously and viciously fought it in the name of debate.

Don't you have someone to spare you some attention at home?

I will talk a million times over any issue with anybody ready for a mature discussion devoid of displays of childish tantrums. For you, I reserve the right to repeat myself or refer you to the archives when I so chose.

You have any any other problem?

Image123:
These clearly confirms a lack of understanding and grasp of the New Testament/Covenant and the Church. The church is the brethren, giving during service in the congregation is a basic submission to authority and combination of effort(unity).

Hope you won't turn this into another infantile display of immaturity? I was having a mature discussion with mba. You and I have discussed this exact point on a thread last year. You might want to check your past posts to confirm.

If he's an APC member, why is babangida aliyu, a PDP governor threatening to set up a PDP disciplinary committee to deal with him?

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/aliyu-apologises-to-mark-over-unruly-conduct-of-niger-lawmaker-vows-to-discipline-him/194668/

SirJohn:
Oh croyez-moi que je vais... Surveillez cet espace !

Gombs:
Je regarde cet espace. Vous serez là pour émerveiller.

我也可以說方言......如果你們不知道....

[size=3pt]I go confuse all of una today.....una go think say na play[/size]

nannymcphee:
You want to start again o!! what do you mean BLW is richer than some COUNTRIES? Based on what statistics?

Do you know how many of the CE churches worldwide are in internal debt? Owing for rhapsody, owing for partnership, owing for even this past RON ?

I don't want to wash any dirty linen outside!!

If indeed what you said is true, how come you aren't doing what the early Christians did, they sold their possession & laid it on the apostle feet:not to build church or sponsor books but to share amongst everyone such that no one lacked

how has that wealth affected the ordinary folks including those in the ministry?

There is a lot you don't know about the ministry, you are just talking based on the little you know, I know staffs of virtually every arm of the minstry, some were my members in school or friends!! So I know what I'm talking about




GIDEON'S bible:free not to be sold has gone around the world more than any Christian book & the money used in doing that wasn't through tithing or mandated funds

How many times have you heard them soliciting for funds?

Rhapsody being the second book to the bible according to God or man? why should a book be compared to a bible?

those 105millions copies if translated into Cash, do you know the good it will do amongst the Christian community & humanity

how many do you think was really read?

Go to some CE churches now, you will find TONS of cartons of rhapsody(October edition-reach Nigeria copies), not distributed

You are here quoting figures

Hmmmmm.....

Gombs:
Yes

Good for you then.

I did not imply COC was your church, your church is smaller because narrow is the way, and only a few find it... it's noted

the members of the body of christ can be found in diverse places all over the world but surely compared to the horde claiming christian today, they are indeed few...very few. Narrow indeed is the way.......

Gombs:
Heheheheheh, bobo... I see how far your church has gone, and the impact they make. Yeah, nareow is the way, and only a few find it... noted buddy.
Sir, God knows why tithing is instituted today, and it is so that they'd have meat in His house... if He was against it, are you saying he turned a blind eye to it all these years? He must be waiting for the last day to arrest those Pastors who allowed it in their churches. #Classic
How can you explain how a Narion like the BLW is richer than alot of countries, and they don’t ask any church or foundation for funds, and they go around the world whenever they like, howecer they like, spreading the gospel of Christ? Monies bro...Prayer is the bedrock...the vehicle is the monies...lots of it. For example, now, there are1, 162 CE cchurches in India. Aside prayers, we sent tons of Bibles there, tons of ROR, tons of tracts all in different formats. There are 2 Ce Churches in Japan, there is the underground Ce Church in China, and I think 16 in South Korea.
How on earth did you think these happened? Yeah baby! Tithing, God opened those windows of heaven, and He sure poured out those blessings.
They just sang the BLW anthem, and boy, I scremed my lungs out with "Believers Love World, building a happier world with love"
Bobo, if you no wan tithe, leave those who want to, whether you like it or not, tithing will not stop. You cannot block the sun with a finger. I'm out.
Partners' conference just entered a higher tempo. Pastor Chris don show stage...bye!
Bonus: Rhapsody of Realities is in 550 languages now, the only book with the most translation in the world second only to the Bible, the world's most read book, second only to the bible, and 105million copies were distributed this year
Abeg, clap for the Holy Spirit, it was not by power or might... yes, I glory in it... in WinsomeX's words "vain glory"

congrats. but all these by propagating the following lies?

Oyakhilome

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a robber: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

WHY WE GIVE OUR FIRST FRUITS? (THE BENEFITS)
We are commanded to give it [Prov 3: 9-10, Ex 22: 29] By giving your first fruit, you secure and sanctify the rest of your fruits ( Rom 11: 16) We give our first fruits that the blessing of God may rest upon us ( Eze 44:30) By giving it, you demonstrate your appreciation for God and the things He has done in your life (Deut 26:10 – 11) It releases the anointing upon your life. The bible says thy presses shall burst out with new wine. New wine symbolizes the anointing ( Prov 3:9) God is delighted in our obedience to His word; for it is better to obey than to sacrifice [I Sam 15: 22] If you don’t give your first fruit, God will go after it because it belongs to Him ( Ex 4: 22 – 23) Anyone who holds back his First Fruit exposes himself to evil. As God said to Israel. [Jeremiah 2: 3]....

WAYS OF GIVING FIRST FRUITS
1. New Job: First salary package
2. New Year: First salary or first income ( for those who don’t earn a salary)
3. Old Job (Promotions) – Increase i.e. the difference between the old and new salary. (If your heart condemns you go ahead and give all. He is looking for something to multiply back to you).


https://www.facebook.com/READRHAPSODYOFREALITIES/posts/651164134943691

and getting some teaching help from the below?



Adeboye

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. [b]But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty [/b]for eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

Pat Robertson

Quoting Malachi, Robertson responded, “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devourer’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devourer,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

https://www.nairaland.com/1541026/pat-robertson-tells-elderly-woman

sure you're making impact.

church of christ isn't my church. I only attend bible studies there. infact the church i attend is smaller so you might want to deepen your disdain

Gombs:
What about the work of ministry? What about church staff salaries? What about church projects? What about.. who foots the bill? How should the church take the gospel form say Lagos to Sri Lanka?

Remember the words of Havin in this book?

What happens to telling folks what the church needs and letting them contribute generously to it? How do you do your offer 7? What is wrong in coming together as a church and deciding together to contribute a percentage of our income to run legitimate programmes of the church? Is that not how the new testament church lived?

I attend bible study sometimes in church of Christ (not COCIN o) and they've been operating on that principle for over 200years and are spread all over the world.

Is there any need so great to justify criminally twisting scriptures and threatening children of God with it to coax money out of them? Do we doubt God can do his thing without us deceitfully trying to 'help' him?

mbaemeka:
Romans 6:14 KJV

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That verse says exactly that about living above sin because of grace.

I thought I told you before that when we make reference to the OT it is in relation to the blessings there because the blessings are still intact- all of them.

As per Jeff and his ruse (if at all it was ever a ruse and not an outright lie) he is living proof that there are adulterations to every good thing. Thank God the words that are being discussed are clear words from the bible. The only debate would be if those words are out-dated and nobody can use a single verse of scripture to assert so. Poverty stricken fellows Is all a matter of time. The guy who was a poverty stricken driver years back today is a prosperity stricken Billionaire. So those 'poverty stricken guys' will become mighty men years later and their testimony will help strengthen the newly recruited 'poverty stricken folks'. What is sauce for Mrs Goose. . .

We'll need Jo to confirm whether it was a case of belief gone wrong or an outright lie from the start

That they're clear words from the bible doesn't make them a rule for Christians. There are many clear words in the bible that Christians do not go near. If you pick tithing for yourself, good for you. Same with the person that decides to practice feast of tabernacles. They however aren't rules for Christians otherwise the apostles would have told us.

Shay that verse called it Tithes? Then it doesn't matter if it is first or 3rd year. There are blessings attached to tithing. That point is settled. And the offerings there referred to offerings. The offerings needed for meat to be in God's house. So that offering could very well be money in today's Parlance and that kind of offering isn't near being done away with.

Cheers.

You mentioned that God has a prescribed way of doing things and I showed you one example. He didnt just say tithe. He said lay it up for the Levite, strangers, orphans and widows. To you it doesnt matter. I can assure you it matters to God. Do you think a Jew who refuses to carry it out the way God said it there would still be blessed? What if I decide to take the tithe to needy brethren instead of the church? After all Christ even said the least of the brethren represented him? Would the blessing in Malachi still follow?

I trust you know the temple of Malachi is now you and I? I am God's temple and you're God's temple. So why can't I as God's building and temple chop the tithe? After all Deut 14:22-26 commands Israel to?

mbaemeka:
It depends on what we want to hold unto as NT or OT. I am sure grace won't excuse any christian that refuses to honor his/her parents that is, even if Paul didn't mention it to the Ephesians. And yes sir, grace does promise that we can live above sin.

Actually, in the old testament, a child who doesn't honour his parents and was reported to the religious leaders was stoned to death.

Show me a scripture that promises we will be sinless this side of eternity and I'll drop this point. Maybe it escaped me somehow.

Also there are not more 'poor' tithers than antitithers. If that were the case what will the poor tithers be defending? Many times, people's convictions of the word is dependent on how much of it they have put to test and proved true. The taste of the Pudding is in the eating they say.

I hope you saw how Jeff kept up a ruse of a 'healing' for months? Maybe he'd have eventually died of same if not for Sir John's expose. Tithers really want to believe tithing works and coupled with the teaching not to acknowledge anything negative, who will like to fall his/her own hand? Also with all the ''You're a robber'', ''You're cursed'', ''You'll suffer loss if you don't tithe'' messages from top G.O's, who among them dare refuse except they're ready to damn the 'consequences' and go search for the truth? So they just keep on suffering and smiling. Even your church has poverty stricken folks in abundance all struggling to 'live it up'. We know them bro.

I know that Ananias and his wife told lies. But it was their money to give and the judgment was instant inspite of grace. The point being that God still has a prescribed way for doing things and we are expected to follow them. A man who is selfish may lack even if he is hardworking same way an intelligent christian may fail exams if he does not study. Dilligence is also something God expects of us regardless of Grace.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 KJV
At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: [29] And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

How about this God prescribed way of treating ALL the tithes of the 3rd year? How faithful are you to it? Or you don't like the blessing attached at the end?

Besides, that Malachi 3 referred to Tithes and offerings. So are the offerings non-christian too?

I would hazard a guess that the offerings being talked about there are the peace offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, etc which of course you will not be caught dead doing. So no. Those offerings there are not Christian at all. Go to Paul to see what and why Christians give.

Gombs:
You know Midas touch would shatter your NL-life long crusade, no wonder you went for the jugular and called Hagin a failure. Tithing is one of the cardinal point of funding the work of the ministry, Until you and your brigade find a verse in the good book where tithing is condemned, I see no basis to continue debating it.

@the bolded. Hmmm I very much doubt. I can confidently say that "midas touch" will never make it into your church bookshop, unless you can find a way to expunge chapters 6-8. Its not that friendly with the practices of our popular mog's.

There's a reason you didn't see it till nannymcphee brought it to our joint notice. I'm sure you won't argue about this.

mbaemeka:
Tithes wasn't done away with even during the NT. Paul was the author of Hebrews and he made references to it without announcing it's annulment and he used that book to assert the annulment of many other Jewish practices. It proves that he too wasn't against it or don't you think so? And can you prove from the NT that tithing was annuled?

And who was doing the payment of tithes? The Jews in Jerusalem or gentile Christians in Rome, Macedonia, Thessaloniki, Ethiopia etc?

Who was doing the collecting? The levites operating at the temple in Jerusalem and living in the 48 levitical cities or the apostles preaching Christ all over the world and hated by the Jews (particularly the temple officials)?

Hebrews 7:5 KJV
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

mbaemeka:
The devourer is the same. He is always walking about and looking for loopholes to exploit. God also has provisions for our health and it is left for us to utilise them. If a tither fails to utilise them he could prosper well in his finances but be found wanting in his health. It is the same reason 2 christians who believe in grace could be leading different lives. While one takes advantage of grace to live above sin, the other erroneously uses grace as his excuse. I can also ask why the financial devourer seems to attack more non-tithers than otherwise. I know a handful of them oo

You believe non payment of tithe is a loophole that enables devourers enter your affairs, I won't begrudge you your right to hold to your belief. Nothing in the entire New covenant hints at any thing like that as a consequence of not remitting 10% of your income to a 'church'. Grace doesn't promise you'll ever become sinless. Tithe preachers however promise that the tithe is a guarantee into prosperity and non payment is a guarantee into poverty. Thank God they're totally wrong.

@the bolded. There are actually more poverty stricken tithers in Christiandom than non tithers. The difference gets bigger still if you ignore the fantasy land dwellers claiming the rich status by 'faith'

Also bro, the tithe in Malachi 3 is 10% like in Abraham's day and during the law. Just like offerings in Abraham's day were the same with offerings in the law. The importance of that chapter is to showcase what God promised concerning tithers.

You see, if you and I decide to go on a walk through scriptures, you'll find that the tithe you claim you practice today is a sham caricature of every tithe injunction or practice in the bible.

I am sure God loved Ananias and Saphirra too but he struck them for giving under compulsion or nah? Didn't they sell their own land by themselves and proceed to give what they had purposed in their hearts?

God struck them down because they lied. They would have had nothing evil happen to them if they didn't give. There was no compulsion and Peter clearly made us realise this in that scripture. Give as you're able. No stipulated percentages.

Sure that God protects us out of love (and God loves the whole world) but he would not let the whole world enter heaven inspite of his love. He has given the whole world a condition to meet to enter heaven and it is left for us to obey him. In this case it is wrt our finances.

God also gave conditions for being a Jew (circumcision) and also a condition for child dedication (turtle doves etc) and also a condition for a woman observing menses to be accepted into the sanctuary but today I'm sure you won't claim those conditions apply to you. The key is to know what pertains to you and what doesn't. Tithing has nothing to do with Christianity.

That verse proves that Satan is the chief devourer. The one whom seeks to kill, steal and destroy. We can fix whatever into that box and we won't be overstretching the scriptures.

Tithing stops no devourer for a christian except maybe the G.O who founded the tithe collecting church and of course has right of first refusal to the funds. The grace of God is what prevents calamities for Christians.

vooks:
Nobody really cares about your percentage of giving to God, in fact how would we know what percentage you gave unless you told us? The baggage or garbage tithing brigade attach to that is the problem

E.g, 'powerful teachings" from Malachi like this

Adeboye

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty for eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

Pat Robertson

Quoting Malachi, Robertson responded, “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devourer’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devourer,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

https://www.nairaland.com/1541026/pat-robertson-tells-elderly-woman

Oyakhilome

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a robber: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

Image123:
We drove them home and parked long time ago, don't be a jew man waiting for the first coming of your messiah.

I can see where you parked it.....in your trolling shoes.

Image123:
Lol, you the spinefull one, i guess you're feeling better now being spinefull. I presume you would receive a dirty slap if you told satan(the father of liars) that you don't know my position, teaching and opinions on your new found question toy. Your guess wasn't as good as mine, I'm seated in Christ my brother.

I guess Satan has slapped you before that makes you to know what gets him into the slapping mode? You don't have a position. Keep sitting on the fence where you're. Its safer for you that way

mbaemeka:
1 Peter 5:8 KJV

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I think you are still missing the big picture. I didn't say Moses wasn't referring to Oxes there. I said he wasn't referring to ONLY Oxes. The Ox as used there is allegorical or symbiotic for a worker who might need to have his pay from the environment that he works. So Paul interpreted it rightly in saying Ministers of the gospel should not be muzzled while they feed the flock- the word.

Ok

That's the same way when God said he would rebuke the devourer for the sake of tithers he wasn't referring to ONLY locusts and cankerworms. He was alluding to something deeper in meaning- the real devourer- the devil himself as the above NT verse has shown.

Are you trying to relate the named devourers of Malachi 3 to what the devil was seeking to do in your reference above? Have you read that entire chapter 5 to see what Peter was saying there? Pls Malachi 3 has nothing, I repeat, has nothing to do with 1Peter 5:8 except you're trying to say like creflo dollar that "its impossible to tithe properly and miss heaven". Peter was admonishing believers about guarding their christian testimony, not their finances.

Also recall, that I never claimed that the devourer seeks to attack only non-tithers. I said he seeks to attack everyone on earth, but even moreso US, christians- whether tithers or antitithers, poor or rich. Now the catch is that Tithers are those who have realised that it would be futile to battle the devourer on their own, so they let God into their finances by tithing. That way, God promised to rebuke him for them.

Of course caterpillars, cankerworms etc attack all farmlands all over the world but thank God for pesticides which God enabled scientists develop to combat them. God made that promise to Israel who were under a fail and get instantaneous judgement system. We are not under that system today. Malachi 3 wasn't talking to a Christian. God protects you out of love, not because you diligently paid a 10% charge in a building wrongly called church.

The teaching about the devourer in relation to finances is just one aspect. The devourer is not only financially penchant. He wants to destroy one's health, wealth, happiness, joy, peace, hope, mind etc. And Gods word has made sufficient provisions for us to countervail his attacks.

Like how adeboye preached it here?

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty for eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

And it will bring me back to the question that always brothers me. How come the health devourer still located the addresses of some of the most vociferous tithe proponents and acclaimed payers? How come?

God's mercies and provisions sustains us and keeps evil at bay, not devourer chasing tithe.

Also bro, the tithe in Malachi 3, is it a reference to the tithe laws of Moses or the Abraham's tithe?

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Hahaha, you don't get it, how could you? You've probably received a strong delusion package on this. So Paul used it to drive home a point, but if we drive home points, you call it twisting and dishonesty and almost bite your own hands on context? There is a God oh.

Good, oya drive home your point na. How long will I beg you to do that? Paul used ox and corn, why not pick up the devourer as you've been itching to but are too spineless to do?

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See what you're standing on, interesting. Parseived typos. You're deluded on many fronts so i will not worry that you were deluded to guess on my knowledge of the language. Keep on standing, I'm seated.

You're spineless man, that's why you find it difficult to take a stand here. Sensible men keep mute when they are not knowledgeable about a subject matter. I advice you do same. Gombs took a position, mbaemeka took a position. Try take one or shut up and let adults talk.

Keep seating.......on the fence, keep trolling; that's what cowards do.

mbaemeka:
Deuteronomy 25:4 KJV

Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

This audience too was Jewish, living in the middle east as well. But they would have been amiss to insist that Moses ONLY referred to literal oxes because in 1 Timothy 5:18 and 1 Corinthians 9:9 Paul used that OT verse to refer to ministers of the gospel and how they should be allowed to make their living from the gospel. The same Paul used Abraham's maid and wife to teach about the Law and Grace. Which means the instance of sending the bondwoman away for the freewoman to have her say wasn't just what it was on the surface. It was allegorical of something spiritual, same with Devourers as used in Malachi 3.

Same scenario. Moses spoke there to Israelites. be under no illusons bro, those he spoke to understood perfectly that he refered to oxen and corn. Infact it probably was the basis for Solomon's proverb below

Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel


Paul used it in his epistles to gentile Christians to drive home a point. Can you point to one instance in the new testament under grace where ''devourers'' was used to drive home any point about christian giving? You'll never find a single one because that thing called devourer coming on a christian for not following a law for jewish people is totally alien and opposed to the gospel of grace. imagine Paul telling the Macedonian Christians already reeling from deep poverty themselves that devourers would come their way in addition if they do not pay tithe? what kind of a God would he be portraying to them? when even the original tithe law in all its severity made provision for the poor to receive tithes?

Your theory of devourers and Oyakhilome's theory of robbers is totally wrong and unfounded as doctrines for Christians.

mbaemeka:
Joel 2 like Malachi 3 is far more reaching than farm produce. On the surface it appears so, but they are allegorical in import of something spiritual. The locusts eating through their farm products was an illustration of God's judgment. The type of Judgement that Egypt faced in Moses day.

Those prophet Malachi talked to in that scripture knew what he meant. There was nothing allegorical there to them. The audience was jewish, living in the middle east and they knew what damage those pests did to farm produce. The temple was operating with the temple storehouse with them then. That scripture wasn't written to a Christian.

If you read the whole of Joel 2 in context you would have seen the promise of God pouring out his spirit on his people, Blood moon etc. These were prophecies that were fulfilled when Jesus ascended and while some are yet to happen and you can see that they were connected to the restoration from the years of the cankerworm and locust. That's why Peter could quote that verse in referring to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Else, he would have been misapplying scriptures that referred to farmers in using it to explain the strange occurrence on that memorable day.

you're right that chapter was prophecy about the future and even though peter used it to describe what happened on pentecost, plenty parts of it are still future and strictly for isreal. This will take us into eschatology and i doubt we are both ready for that discussion now.

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He he he he, see live delusion. I parseive Nigeria' football score is taking its toll on you. Enjoy

The bold is "perceive". I guess its the delusions that confused your knowledge of the English language so suddenly.

I don't watch Nigerian senior male national team anymore even before their last caf cup triumph. I don't need over pampered footballers to give me high BP so the scores did not bother me. Infact I'm happy for SA.

Try and get something to stand on. It's a coward that acts like you do.

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Heyyyyy mr lovey dovey, question was straight na. Who told you sleeping with your brother's wife is harmful? That's actually a culture someplace.

Is it the culture in your place? It sure isn't in mine

Can i also put my tithe under your 1John interpretation?

What's stopping you?

On your last question, your mischief and dishonesty is plain to even satan. Worse still, i really hope he's not being messing with your brain/memory, because i know you've read my stand several times. Just quick search link where i was supposedly discussing with YOU on same issue. https://www.nairaland.com/1548047/theological-discuss-tithing-rhymeyjohn-image123/5#20311560

Look at this liar. If I ask you now, I'm sure you'll also deny you've ever seen oyaks devotional up there or adeboyes devotional on page 70. A chronic pathological liar who is so dishonest he can hardly take a stand on anything. Why are you so eager to exonerate yourself? Who is chasing you? produce the post where we started this discussion so we can see what i said

You're inconsequential to these straightforward discussions my friend. Let those with some modicum of honesty have space to talk. Gombs didn't deny he has used the negatives in Malachi 3 on non tithers and he repeated it this morning. Mbaemeka took a position against oyaks stand this evening so i have no use for you. keep denying if you wish.

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Leviticus 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's unclothedness; they shall be childless.
Mark 6:18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

Do you think that scripture above applies to a Christian saved by the blood of Christ today? Or we can go get our brother's wife as we're saved by God?

1 John 4:7-8, 20 KJV
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. [8] He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. [20] If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Do you love your brother? Will you cause him harm if you take his wife? If you sleep with his wife, you hate him and it means you don't know God.

Also, did you see this portion in midas touch by Hagin? From page 171


The Old Testament was all the Bible there was for centuries. It was the Bible Jesus quoted from in His ministry. The Old Testament is valuable to me because it teaches me about God, the early history of the world, and how God dealt with His chosen people, the Jews. It contains the Law and the Prophets, the Psalms and Proverbs. I appreciate the Old Testament and benefit from it, but it was not written to me.

The above is how I treat the OT. That your reference up there has nothing to do with a Christian.

Also, are you also of the oyaks school of thought calling non tithing Christians robbers? Hence cursed? Hence going to hell for robbing and refusing to repent?

mbaemeka:
Well, I don't agree with the term Robber. If he said it, then I don't agree with it. There is a language for the mature and for babes as well. If I don't give my own tithes I would feel like a robber but I don't call those who do not share my convictions robbers.

Good to see you refuse to follow your G.O on a path of error. He wasn't talking about himself there. He was sure that any Christian who doesn't pay tithes is a robber. Since he affirms this, how do you expect his loyal members not to have the fear that they're robbers if they don't pay tithes, hence they're sinners in the same category as armed robbers, would go to hell and the curse in Malachi 3:8-9 is their portion?

The devourers listed there were symbolic of the products of a man's hand and not necessarily farm products. Quite similar to Joel 2:25

That scripture talks about farm produce also. A carpenter could suffer the effects of a famine because he'll buy food expensively or not see at all to buy but the farmer is the guy in danger of locusts or caterpillars. Nothing symbolic there.

mbaemeka:
1. The christian isn't a robber.

From Rhapsody of Realities

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a [size=16pt]robber[/size]: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

Thats pastor Chris talking up there. Do you affirm he's wrong?

2. The curse came by the law I.e one's adherence or disobedience of the law. But the devourer has always existed and will always exist. Besides, I said the devourer aims to attack everyone on earth not just Christians who do not tithe. What tithing does is that it gives God the access to rebuke the devourer for the tithers sake whereas in the case of the non-tithers, they would have to fend him off themselves.

The devourers listed there were all farm pests which destroyed farm produce. how does it concern someone who isn't a farmer?