₦airaland Forum

mbaemeka:
Deuteronomy 27:26 KJV

Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Remember Tithes begun before the law and when the Law came, God put it into the law then he said anyone who didn't obey all the words of the law was cursed, so that he repeated it again in Malachi 3 is a given.

Christ came and redeemed us from the curse of law but the blessings of the law remained intact. So I can always go back to the law to be reminded of the blessings that I know now belong to me.

Personally, I don't go to Malachi 3 to force anyone to give. Rather I go there to be reminded of the blessings that God promised I would have for giving the tithes. In that chapter he said he would open the windows of heaven; pour out a blessing; rebuke the devourer etc. I don't bother looking at the "curses" because no christian is cursed. However, I can also say to a fellow christian, "Brother, you are missing out on this and that if you don't tithe". If he says he is okay that way then that is fine by me.

See the scripture I quoted

Malachi 3:8-9 KJV
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. [9] Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

Do you think a christian who doesn't pay tithe is a robber? If he's a robber, do you agree he's a sinner? If he's a robber, on whose authority are you waving the curse?

If devourers can come to a christian who doesn't tithe, why can't curses come? What is the difference between curses and devourers?

mbaemeka:
First of all, it might interest some of you to know that Reverend Chris didn't always believe in tithing. As the first son in the line of many pastors across generations he gave tithes in obedience to the teachings he received in AG but when he became a Pastor himself in the late 70s and early 80s he taught members of his then church on the out-datedness of tithing. He believed it had been done away with by the ushering in of the NT and he taught so to all and sundry. He also taught on the fear factor that he was sold on while in AG into tithing. The Pastors always made references to curses for not doing so and he responded to such fear. Subsequently, as he began to study further by the instructions of the Holy Spirit he saw the importance and scriptural basis behind tithing and he has taught so ever since to tremendous results.

Now I said all that to say this: it is not impossible that at the earliest stages of his teaching on these things maybe he still infused a part of the fear factor that he got from his time in AG. I am saying this because the link referred to audios and tapes which means this had to be a long time ago. I can say without flinching that I have never heard him relate non-tithers to any curse neither have I seen him teach such in the last 15 years. So it is very possible that the folks who decided to re teach the issues on Facebook used old tapes or maybe they just infused their own ideas into it.

But just like he said one who doesn't tithe is setting up the persons self for financial strangulation and that is not a curse. That is just explaining the consequences of someone's actions or inactions to them. For example, when God told Adam that if he ate from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil he will surely die. God wasn't placing a curse on Adam. He was simply showing him the consequences of his disobedience. In the real sense what God did to Adam was a form of tithes because he allowed him to eat from every other Tree but he instructed him to leave that Tree untouched and Adam disobliged and faced the consequences.

It is the same way God told the Israelites to use the blood of a lamb to mark the doorposts and lintels so that the destroyer will passover them. Sure, the children of Israel were God's people and he was trying to protect them. But if anyone of them had mistakenly forgotten to mark his doorposts with the blood of the lamb, he would have lost his first child and God would not have been to blame as he had already told them what to do to negate the effects of the destroyer. God placed no curse on anyone of them.

If I say to my child make sure you look closely before crossing the road or else you would be knock down by a vehicle I am only giving instructions with the adjoining consequences of flouting such instructions. I am not placing a curse on my child. We all have agreed from the scriptures that we live in a fallen world that is being run by the devil whose sole aim is to kill, steal and DESTROY. Now Satan wants to destroy the whole of mankind but even more so us christians because we have opted to follow the very way that he wants nobody to follow. This destroyer is similar to the one who went about the camp slaying the firstborn of the Egyptians. Remember, he didn't go there to destroy just them, he wanted to destroy all but the blood was the security policy for the initiated. That is the same way tithes is a financial security policy for us christians. When we give it, we give God the leeway to protect our finances for us. Those who do not give it are only saying they can manage their finances themselves and they are allowed that. The problem is when that destroyer comes to their doorposts, God will not be able to rebuke him on their behalf and the reason is simple: because they told him they can do it on their own. So I am not amiss if I say such a person is setting up himself for financial strangulation and I am not placing a curse on him.

As per the firstfruits, I will have to do more investigations to be certain Rev Chris said "God will take it from you it you do not give". I have never heard him say so. My understanding of the principle of firstfruits is on this thread and it is all in relation to my putting God first. I have never seen it as something I had to do nullify any curse of any sort as what anyone calls firstfruits can be subjective even from the bible. I have a Pastor friend who gave his first year (not month but year) salary as his firstfruits. I never did so and I have never heard him teach so as a doctrine of any sort. I actually cringed to see that statement on that Facebook post and I will do well to investigate it thoroughly to be certain that those words were used. I however strongly believe that it is not the case.

Sorry for my epistle. I might make corrections if need be.

Back to hibernating.

@the bolded, Is there anyway for a honest human being to preach tithing to a christian from Malachi 3:8-11 without the fear factor?

Malachi 3:8-9 KJV
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. [9] Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

That verse above says those who don't pay their tithes (whether levites or other tribes is irrelevant for now) have robbed (past tense) God and are already cursed. Any other interpretation is window dressing.

Do you think that scripture above applies to a Christian saved by the blood of Christ today?

Hmmmm.......

vooks:
Seems to me like you take exception to any opposition to your BS. This is not your church full of sheeple that swallow your heresies without chewing, but intelligent and extremely rational beings. Get used to brains at work sir

You don't need prayers, you don't need Holy Spirit, your profession it seems is milking God's Word of ALL power and then wondering why impotence haunts you like your shadow. Even sons of Belial called you a fool

Phew...to think that some people were so sure you were alternate monikers of the same person

Vooks, pls calm down. I believe we can disagree without being disagreeable. You're 2 of the most interesting folks I enjoy reading here and it grieves me to see you guys go at each other like this.

Chill pls

Gombs:
Bobo, I was tired last night. Since you don't rob God...fine. me I will tithe, till Jesus come

That was never in dispute my friend and I won't begrudge you that right. The bone of contention was the tactical distancing from Malachi employed in recent times and the shameful bare faced denial of same. Now that we've cleared that up, we all can go back to default mode; you cursing non tithers and we laughing at you and the curses

Cheers

vooks:
This is the empty bravado that nailed Joagbaje to the cross of his ignorance and naivety. He dared SirJohn too much. They were here daring you for evidence, they thought the more aggressive they got, the more you would be convinced there is nothing to prove.

One other thing you can never exact from image123 is his church if it is not CE. Reason is if he did and you dug for their teachings, Malachi curses not to mention first fruit would feature BIG. Gombs is cursed, he is Christ Embassy hooligan, can't deny it and we have enough publicly available garbage from there to construct their theology on these things

No different from closet gays

There are some here I don't bother with anymore. Its simply not worth it. If necessary, they'll deny their gender if it'll help their case.

Image isn't CE. He actually believes they're not shamefaced enough. He told nannymcphee that. He also believes a woman commits sin by wearing any kind of trousers because of Deut 22:5 and you know you can't divorce a CE babe (be it pastor, choir, everyone of them) from her trousers. Its primarily the money that ties image and CE together. I doubt he'll be comfortable sitting in a building surrounded by CE members because if female trousers rub him the wrong way, what will he do with the make-ups and mini skirts? He was even trying to tell oyaks to behave better on one of those divorce threads. I smiled when I saw it.

vooks:
Next, is Candour CURSED because he does not tithe? Exactly what evil befalls you if you don't pay first fruits?

These guys are behaving like closet gays; at ease with their lifestyles in their privacy but too ashamed to come out

They've been lying that they don't issue curses on non tithers. They've been lying they don't preach tithe from Malachi 3. That's why I didn't bother disturbing myself proving anything to others but Gombs if he hadn't capitulated. I knew he wouldn't keep the lie for long when confronted with hard evidence my friend has only become more aggressive about it

This is the tactical distancing on display before our very eyes. Tithing by faith my foot.

As for first fruits, non compliance means HIV straight. Even image123 is in danger be that

Gombs:
Bobo... you rob God, yes or no?

My friend has gone through his past posts and seen that he can't deny he has himself used or seen Malachi 3 used against non tithers on NL some few times he has also discovered that oyaks his idol also knows how to put prophet Malachi to dangerous use. Its baffling that he was able to type longer posts at IPPC but had to wait till he gets to his hotel to type a 6 word post. He has discovered he can't hide anymore so the next thing is to become brazen about it

No my friend, i don't rob God.

Gombs:
Candour! Let me get to my hotel room first. Good evening.

And I hope you won't start displaying verbal or writing diarrhoea o? (to borrow your words)

vooks:
Oyakhilome;

https://www.facebook.com/notes/recky-dee/finance-convention-day-3-rev-chris-oyakhilome/10151531209784579

On first-fruits and you wonder why Jeff got HIV from not offering first-fruits

https://www.facebook.com/READRHAPSODYOFREALITIES/posts/651164134943691

No wonder they are playing dumb. They are caught between a rock ( Hagin) and a hard place ( Oyaks)

Now, how is it my fault that oyaks, adeboye etc have refused to upgrade to tithing by faith? Inspite of what Hagin wrote? Obviously Hagin had both in mind when he composed chapter 6 of his book

Gombs:
Bobo, stop shifting the goal post...I asked you, what sayeth thou? Bidam gave you a list of names, I asked what sayeth thou, you went haywire. If you don’t have any thing to say about the names Bidam gave... then no need having verbal or in this case written diarrhoea.

And you think I should dignify that list by going-a-digging? I consider you more intelligent than that my friend.

This whole gist is about image feigning ignorance of threads where tithe proponents used Malachi 3 against non tithers and my simple questions bother on whether you too will say with him that you've not seeing such? Or whether you've not heard any pastor use same? Or whether you've not used it yourself since we started discussing this issue on NL?

In your voice, a simple yes or no will do. I say yes. What say thou?

Now why should that be difficult?

Gombs:
Oya candour, what sayeth thou?

Would you also tell the dumb lie that you've NEVER come across a thread on NL where tithe proponents used Malachi 3 against non tithers? Would you also join the group lying that they're yet to see a pastor use Malachi 3 against non tithers? Would you also lie that you've never used the negatives in Malachi 3 against non tithers?

Would you my friend Gombs?

Image123:
Simply help produce them, no need for hyperventilating. Or suit yourself.

Seek your help elsewhere if you're too dishonest to admit there are threads on NL where tithe proponents have used Malachi to threaten non tithers.

Image123:
Suit yourself, you're employed in your lifestyle of dishonesty. It was voks BTW.

You're a walking and living definition of dishonesty if you still insist on pretending not to know about the deployment of curses in Malachi 3 against non tithers on plenty threads on NL.

Image123:
What seems bad is your apparent inability to verify your claims.

What is very bad is your ability to pretend not to know about the past tithe threads and the tactical distancing from Malachi's curses now employed by tithe proponents.

Image123:
Sorry, i don't.

Too bad

Image123:
How?

You know

Image123:
Does it matter?

Yes it does

Image123:
It might help someone if you could show these past tithe threads and also the tactical distancing.

Are you that someone in need of the help?

vooks:
The members are eerily silent on this point. Are they guilty or something? But note how few would admit to MoGs raining Malachi curses on non-tithers

You see, if you go into past tithe threads, you'll see their true beliefs on the issue. This tactical distancing from Malachi 3 is a recent development prompted by the realisation that folks are getting wiser about the lies. One even opened a thread standing on Malachi 3 to call non-tithers criminals.

Thank God even Hagin has corrected them in his book.

Gombs:
Are you sure you are not having misplaced ideas?

I too was shocked when I read it on Sir Johns thread

vooks:
According to Christ Embassy theology, can somebody contract diseases because of not tithing or paying first-fruits?

I wonder if its a church-wide belief or a branch pastor getting too dreamy and overzealous.

Gombs:

So, God is against a multitude, say if a pastor has 30 million brethren worldwide?

Even Rev Sun Myung Moon in all his erraticity had millions of deluded followers

No. God isn't against a multitude but the painful truth and reality is that a multitude will never embrace the truth in any generation. Of course if you add up all the "few" of the last 2000 years of Christianity, you'll get a "multitude" but compared to the sea of humanity that have lived within this period, that "multitude" pales into significant insignificance (for emphasis pls ).

An effect of rushing for multitude is your branch pastor telling Jeff he contracted HIV because he didn't pay first fruits. Of course I trust you or oyaks don't believe that nonsense.

Its better to get one person knowing the truth than building an empire of spiritual zombies feeding on junk.

Gombs:
Yeah, right! That's WinsomX's motto.

Explaining that would be another day's task buddy! Cheers

That particular statement of Christ is "untwistable" no matter how 'good' you are at twisting so don't even go there

Cheers

Gombs:
A large crowd followed Jesus, guess which set of folks hated that? Yeah buddy, the Pharisees.

And at the end of the day, how many of the large crowd believed the message? How many remained with Jesus at his trial? How many were with him after the resurrection? How many were waiting for the spirit in the upper room? If crowd following is anything, Jesus would be termed a failure by your standards. In fact a terrible failure because some of the crowd who sang hosanna in the highest to herald him into Jerusalem were screaming "crucify him, crucify him" just a week later. Do we take it you'll betray oyaks soon like the crowd did to Jesus?

Anyway, what mattered to Christ was doing his fathers work. What mattered to Paul was finishing his course and keeping the faith, not how many people he had getting thrills from hearing him. I keep telling you its not about the crowd. It shouldn't be about the crowd. Christ said "narrow is the way and few will find it"

Say yours, I say mine. The important thing is readers seeing all the angles and arriving at the truth through the help of the spirit of God.

"Contrary to what many of you may think, I am human and I have my fears too. There were times I have had cause to fear and doubt because I am human but God always ended up disappointing my fears and doubts.

Kudos to hum. At least he didn't claim to be a 'god' like some vain ones

honourhim:
In the preceding verses Jesus was addressing the issue of seeking for material things. He now said that our heavenly father knows that we have need of them but that we should seek first the kingdom of God. then all these things will be added. So that places was talking about material things.

I think the instruction says we should not seek for it but that it will be added to us when we seek righteusness.

While I'm not saying God can't bless his children with material prosperity, it is necessary to correct the wrong impression folks draw from matt 6:33. That scripture was assuring the audience of God's capability to meet their needs, not pour down riches.

See what Christ said earlier

Matthew 6:25, 31-32 KJV
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? [31] Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

We can see what Christ said these guys shouldn't worry about. Not luxuries, prosperity, flamboyance etc, no. He asked them not to worry about meeting their daily needs because God knew they needed their daily necessities met. Then Christ assured them thus

Matthew 6:33 KJV
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

What are the things God will add to the audience? Not prosperity, not riches but the things Christ listed earlier; food, clothes and drink which are what a human being needs.

Christ promised to meet needs, not wants. Even Paul reiterated it below

Philippians 4:19 KJV
But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

We can look for another scripture that promises riches but matt 6:33 has nothing to do with wealth.

Gombs:
What if Jeff gets a HIV negative result? Ah! The headline would be "Jo has finally paid Jeff or the hospital folks". My man, one day, God's willing, you'd meet with Jo, or visit CE Bayelsa. Testimonies abound. I was there for Super Sunday around July and 3 days of Glory with Pastor T. T. Edun. Joagbaje invited me. God through Joagbaje has wrought alot of miracles, and yes, i verified them myself... Joagbaje is a well refined MOG, a unique one at that, who'd have time out of heading more than 200 churches under him to come on NL and try to teach what he knows work well by the Holy Spirit.

It's ok to doubt him sha, and for folks to call him fraud.

All these stories just to sweep the issue under the carpet? Have you forgotten how to insist i use yes or no? Or at least keep it short? You rubbished nannymcphee because of her 'error' and dismissed her as unworthy of any trust but you pull out joagbaje's CV to show he's not 'so bad after all'? Does that look and sound fair to you? Pls be honest.

Was Jeff healed by joagbaje or not? Was joagbaje right to have posted the video of an unverified 'miracle' and call those who doubted it 'Jesus denyers'? Were you and your friends right to have jumped on Sir John and abuse, insult and curse him for expressing his doubts about that 'miracle'?

I asked you and you refused to answer. If DrummaBoy or Sir John were guilty of what Jo did, would you have been this understanding?

Beyond NL, we have a life and I believe you and I will make good acquaintances when we eventually meet but the way you go about gaining advantage over people is childish and extreme. You have enough loopholes that I can explore to do same to you but i chose not to.

I've always asked you and others to always exercise caution in matters like this and I honestly hope you've learnt your lessons. I'm Sure Jo has at least.

@Gombs, are those the great answers you were preparing??

Gombs:
candour and trustman,i am with my phone now,wait a while let me get a hold of my tab.

i have great answers for you both

I'd love to hear them

Gombs:
sadly true. nannymcphee too has her measure of strife and bitterness after i stopped her in her erroneous tracks,when i should be thanked for spotting and correct an error.

but like paul,non of these things move me.

@the bolded, including the 'miracle' that never was?

I endorse the OP totally and unequivocally.

God bless the writer.