₦airaland Forum

Image123:
This is intellectual laziness, politics is not religion. Ex officio ko, lubbish.

Very obvious lubbish indeed!!

FortresOfChrist:
Happy New Year sir. I want to ask sir, does your answers only deal with our past sin before we receive Christ or does it include our sins in the present state as Christians and future?

What made us right with God? Is it because we stopped sinning? Of course not. Its because we believed the gospel and God sealed us immediately he saw the belief

Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
In whom ye also trusted , after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

You were sealed with the holy spirit immediately you believed the gospel and this is the earnest (down payment) of your inheritance. A payment has already been put on you that you belong to God and it wasn't because of any good works you did or what you didn't do.

If God seals you, what or who can unseal you? If God has loved you, what can separate you from his love?

Romans 8:38-39 KJV
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The most important thing is to truly believe the gospel that saves

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. [3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

However like I always say, grace isn't license. A sinner who has experienced true saving grace will hate the works of sin. God forbid that we should continue therein

Romans 6:1-2 KJV
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

We are admonished by the apostle thus

Romans 6:12-13 KJV
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

These admonitions abound all over the epistles. Allow the spirit work through you and you'll not fulfill the lusts of the flesh that'll make you to doubt your salvation or feel unworthy before God.

Ifeann:
I won't comment until I confirm or debunk this.

Google is your friend but always remember that Alhaji Lawal Kaita, former governor of kaduba state jailed by buhari in 1984 promised to make Nigeria ungovernable for Jonathan and he was a member of PDP board of trustees when he said it. Today he's a campaigner for Jonathan and I want to guess its because he's now a moderate Muslim whose DNA has been purged of 'born to rule' mentality

To you your opinion.

But yours are facts right?

Because my muslims friends are moderates who smoke and drink and are too busy with the opposite gender to care abt the horrible commands in the Quran. Plus they aren't pro sharia.

So drinking, smoking and womanizing is what makes a moderate Muslim?? You classified Sambo as a moderate, does he drink, smoke and waste his life on women like your moderate Muslim friends? What about Sanusi? Yar'adua (before he died) nko?

Because this is a forum for discussion on topics as u chose.

I wanted you to prove me a liar by affirming that you do not believe buhari will cut christian heads if he becomes president

Because Sambo and yaradua aren't pro sharia as far as I know.

Because they're 'moderates' who have no inhibitions about smoking, drinking and womanizing?

So we need to change the days of the week, the calender and british history to please muslims . What's ur point.

Just want you and others to get off your high horse and stop the hypocricy of condemning the fact that sharia was mentioned in the constitution when the reality is that our constitution borrows heavily from the christian canon law.

I found his dressing funny. He has the right to dress how he wishes as long as it isn't against the allowed office dress code.

I doubt you'd have seen the funny side if buhari was pictured dressing like that to an official function in 1984.

Funny I am actually watching the news right now. Muslims just killed 12 journalists.

And your mind immediately went to buhari, right? Did it also go to sambo, sanusi, muazu etc?

Now Where is the link on bbc. When did he condemn it. A week later. , a month. ?

You were so sure he didn't condemn the violence nor appeal for calm, so why does bit matter even ifvitbtook him a year to? There's your link below


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13126839

He will say anything now on social media to win. Jonathan did this as well. We still have a month to the elections. I hope he addresses this issue in person and I will take my time to read ever word of his manifesto.

I hope you get to hear from him soon. The fact remains that as military head of state, he appointed 11christians, 7muslims and 1atheist as governors.

https://www.nairaland.com/2049821/list-governors-ministers-under-buharis

He also appointed 15ministers made up of 8christians and 7muslims

http://www..com/ng/in-nigeria/40607-list-of-ministers-in-muhammadu-buhari-regime.html

vooks:
Winsomex,
Am not Nigerian but I can offer my mind on this. First, a few questions;

1. Can God use or has God used unbelievers to lead nations successfully?
2. How many countries/kingdoms of the world are led by born again Christians presently?
3. Are there genuine case studies of effective leadership over nations by believers as contrasted with unbelievers?

I believe there is a myth that Christians are supposed to make the best in the 'market place' seeing they are the salt of the world. Frankly speaking, the ONLY thing Christians excel in above anybody else is in converting sinners; evangelism.

So am against this idea that for a country to prosper however you define prosperity, you need a Christian at the helm.
Born again leaders don't have a monopoly over morality,wisdom, intelligence or even leadership skills. For this reason, I need to be convinced that Nigeria will fare better under a believer than a non-believer purely on account of their faith. We shall reign forever but not now just as we shall live forever but not yet

The thing is tiring my brother. How christian is a president presiding over the most horrendous cases of corruption we've had since independence? How christian is a president that has wasted all the gains of years of selling crude at over $100/barrel?

Give me an atheist who is not a thief or waster and I'll vote him

Ifeann:
Did u even read my comment I never said buhari made those statements. Buhari never made that statement, I have even argued this with people. I said it was someone from his camp of muslim northern born to rule elite religious bigots.

You're jumping all over the place. If you knew all along that buhari didn't make that statement, why did you attach it to him? Is Sambo not also from the north? Is Muazu also no longer from the north? Did you analyse Sambo's DNA to ascertain that it is empty of the "born to rule" mentality? Alhaji lawal Kaita who made that statement has NEVER been in buhari's camp. In fact its obvious you only listen to gossip and not news because if you did, you would have known that buhari jailed him for corruption in 1984.

The guy who promised an ungovernable Nigeria is Jonathan's friend and confidant; Alhaji Lawal Kaita of the PDP.

You said,"We never heard so much about buhari's 'bigotry' when he contested against OBJ, a christian"

Well u maybe too young to remember but it has always been an issue. Including the fact that he overthrew a democratic government.

Mister, pls don't patronise me. its either you were too young or you're now telling a barefaced lie if you say buhari's so called 'islamisation' agenda was a campaign issue when he ran against OBJ in 2003.

You said,"Also concerning the genocidal Quranic verses you put up, have you seen the ones in our bible? Do they apply to you? Do you know how many people were burnt at the stake by the medieval church quoting the below?"

I am very much aware of those verses in the old testament. You bringing this up shows you are open minded which I really like, but it also shows u don't know much about your own christain theology. Those verses are descriptive unlike the quran verses that are prescriptive. I ask you, why are "Christians" not burning witches at the stake while Muslims still commit acts of terrorism in the name of allah, for over 1,400 years. And besides I have mentioned this before, we have a lot of moderate Muslims who don't even want sharia law although their book commands Muslims to live under that barbaric law.

You said your Muslim friends don't follow the genocidal verses of the Quran which you're so sure buhari will obey if he wins. What does that make your friends? Muslim hypocrites or what? Why are you so sure Sambo will not also want to kill infidels? Is he also a fake Muslim?

You said,"how did you deduce that buhari will want to cut off a Christian's head today when its been shown he has had Christians in his domestic employ for years?"

Again u haven't understood my comment or u are just making up lies. I never said buhari,"... will want to cut off a Christian's head today." as you put it. This is a lie. I am only concerned about him, a conservative pro sharia muslim spreading the Islamic agenda of domination, go read the quran. Ask yourself why so many federal and public institutions have a mosque within its compound, why the emphasis of Islam and sharia in our constitution. Why their are over 48 muslim countries, why Islam uses al Taqiyya and force to convert non-muslims. Why u had the Arabic and the hausa arewa symbol in your naira. Why is Nigeria a member of the OIC. Do u know the mission and vision of the IOC. Apparently you do not.
Islam is a political idealogy and when mixed with a conservative northern muslim in power it has bad consequences. Why are we fighting our own citizens in the north, killing young nigerian boys and calling them boko haram. Go and study Islam.

You can clear the air for me now. Do you now believe buhari will not cut heads of infidels if he becomes the president? Why then have you been paranoid about sharia since this thread began?

If you're only concerned about domination and not strict sharia, why single out buhari? Why exonerate yar'adua or Sambo? Do you think they don't read the Quran like me too?

I asked you earlier. Sunday is our national day of rest. From where did we get it? Islam or Christianity? What is the basis of our constitution as it has evolved from the British till date? English law (which is based on canon law) or Islam? Don't you think the Muslims have a right to complain about the 'christian' foundation on which our constitution is built?

So which of your moderate Muslims has ever protested against the national institutions having Islamic symbols? Why put all on buhari's head?

I can comfortably vote for a muslim who is a moderate, I am a huge fan of sanusi. I even voted for buhari in 2011, I chose to reject the rumours I heard abt him then . I woke up after he refused to condemn his CPC supporters for killing corpers or at least calm them down. His political ambition was more important.

@the bold, really?? This is very convenient. What did you think about sanusi dressing like a Muslim amir or emir to work as CBN governor a number of times? Or you never saw him dress like that? Would you overlook it if you see a picture of buhari dressed like that to work as PTF chairman?

@the bold. I said it before that you don't listen to news but gossips. BBC carried a report of his condemnation of the riots.

Finally, I do not support GEJ governments handling of many issues in Nigeria, didn't vote for him. I knew he wasn't qualified and I sang it on Facebook. Yet nigerians picked him. But is he 100% a faliure, NO. At the end of the day this is a discussion and we all have our right to vote who appeals to us the most. I am hoping that there will be debates and clear manifestos soon. I really want to vote buhari again but he must make it clear he won't show religious or tribal sentimentalities.

Did you not see his statements up there? Is that not enough? How else do you want him to show it? He had 19 governors as head of state. 11 were Christians, 7 were Muslims and 1 was atheist. Isn't that enough? I saw a list of His ministers and Christians had the most important portfolios. I believe His SMC had more Christians than Muslims (though I'll need to confirm this particular one)

You'll vote whom you will but pls its wrong to put all the problems you have with Islam or Muslims on buhari. Its not his fault sharia was mentioned in our christian based constitution neither is it is fault aso rock has a mosque

Ifeann:
You asked, "If Islam is your problem and not Muslims, then what religion do your Muslim friends practice?"

Apparently u think I should be
prejudiced to Muslims. NEVER.
I detest Islam because I know a lot of what it teaches. Besides a lot of Muslims I know are moderates who thankfully don't follow the quran literally.

You said,"To be honest with you, your comments are majorly anti buhari."
Well look at my past posts on nairaland, its on Islam not buhari. Buhari is the topic of this thread and my opinion on him has been stated.

You said,"So does that mean you've foreclosed the possibility of harmonious existence in the country?"
No. Like I said I knw several Muslims, one of my closest friends is a muslim I respect his God given right to freewill and choice. I have igbo, hausa, benin and yoruba family members, not many nigerians can say this.
I believe in harmony but Islam doesn't want peace in any country it is in.

You said," Could it be you're advocating a wiping out of Muslims with their religion or just total christianisation of the country?"

No. Why should I. But I would rather have Muslims leave the falsehood of Islam which commands them to;

Quran 8:39. "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do."

Qur'an (9:29)-"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

Abu Burda reported Allah's Messenger as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with AS HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTAIN, and Allah would FORGIVE THEM and He would PLACE IN THEIR STEAD the Jews and the Christians. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6668)


You said,"I've read that speech by buhari and I do not still see how it translates to an Islamic agenda for Nigeria."
My dear which of the speeches did u read. Did u just read one and conclude buhari is not pro-sharia for Nigeria. Please do more research. And I hope u are aware that some groups have called on buhari to renounce his pro-sharia stance and he hasn't renounced his position on it.

Look I am tired and I will stop here.

You have asked many questions BUT you haven't asked yourself the most important one. WHY are so many people against Buhari and why are so many people citing religious reasons. U can blame it on the pdp or on less known facts about the man.

You see, lies when told very often will become 'truth' and that's the case with buhari. For instance, you said buhari promised to make the country ungovernable for Jonathan. I myself believed this lie until the federal govt, Reuben abati and guardian newspapers were forced to apologise to him for defamation of character when the truth came out that it was Alhaji Lawal Kaita of the PDP that made that statement. The interesting part is that he's now a campaigner for Jonathan's reelection.

We never heard so much about buhari's 'bigotry' when he contested against OBJ, a christian. It was when Jonathan squared up against him that the issue gained currency because Jonathan and friends sought to explore our ethno religious fault lines to fullness.

Also concerning the genocidal Quranic verses you put up, have you seen the ones in our bible? Do they apply to you? Do you know how many people were burnt at the stake by the medieval church quoting the below?

Exodus 22:18 KJV
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

If you say your Muslim friends are not affected by them, how did you deduce that buhari will want to cut off a Christian's head today when its been shown he has had Christians in his domestic employ for years?

Mintayo:
That's not what I am saying. Plus I am talking about this coming election, you will be surprised that only 2 out of 10 Muslims will vote in Jonathan in the coming election.

Honestly, i won't be surprised if only 2 out of 10 nigerians vote Jonathan. He is a bad advert for Christian political leadership. Even IBB, the self confessed "evil genius", calls himself a saint compared to what's going on now and I doubt any sane Nigerian will argue with him.

Image123:
Interesting that, i supposed we ought to live and decide by faith, not by fear. Give me my CHANGE.
Ifeann, why didn't Buhari islamise Nigeria or join OIC as a military head of state with a muslim vice? Briefly, what exactly are your fears about Nigeria being islamised?

I keep wondering why buhari didn't islamise Nigeria as military head of state when he had a strong army at his beck and call. My big daddy and another uncle of mine worked with him as directors of our foremost intelligence agency Both were Christians (my uncle In fact rose to the pastorate after retirement) and till date, they have the best accolades for this man.

@the bolded is a question I also ask Christians who have this morbid fear of buhari.

Ifeann:
Hey friend from your comment I can see u aren't well informed about this issue. You mentioned "muslim-phobic"... That's so so wrong. I would say my comments are anti Islam but NEVER muslim-phobic. I have muslim family members I love as Christ commands me to.

If Islam is your problem and not Muslims, then what religion do your Muslim friends practice?

To be honest with you, your comments are majorly anti buhari.

You said something abt ethno-religious harmony. Were u born yesterday dear? Look at Nigeria's history which I have studied indepth, ethno-religious harmony is a myth, unachievable in any country where Muslims are in large numbers.

So does that mean you've foreclosed the possibility of harmonious existence in the country? If you have, what should be the modus operandi going forward? Could it be you're advocating a wiping out of Muslims with their religion or just total christianisation of the country?

For your info, I've also studied Nigerian history, studied christian history and also being privileged to live and work for long periods in every single geopolitical zone in the country so I know some things too.

You said,"Since you single buhari out, how do you think or imagine he will singlehandedly islamise the country"
Emmm I also said it will be very difficult for anyone to "islamise" this country. But I am suspicious of buhari because he is a hardcore conservative muslim northern elite with an old fashioned mentality of born to rule who has said on record that he supports the spread of sharia all over Nigeria and now he is running for president again..... He has not renounced his position on the sharia issue despite calls for him to do so.

Which northerner doesn't have this "born to rule" mentality? Which human being doesn't want to dominate? Wike (an ikwerre) wants to become governor of rivers state and rule for 8 years after amaechi (another ikwerre) just finished ruling for eight years in a state with numerous ethnic groups. Does that give you and I license to tag every ikwerre we meet as having a "born to rule" mentality?

I've read that speech by buhari and I do not still see how it translates to an Islamic agenda for Nigeria.

You said,"How liberal is Adamu Muazu (PDP chairman) who signed sharia into law as governor of Bauchi state?"
If he decides to run for president I will do research on his position on the issue and make sure votes from my christain friends don't go to him if he is still pro sharia.

The man already signed sharia into law as Bauchi governor, shouldn't that make you and Jonathan wary of him? Yet he's the chairman of the party sponsoring our 'christian' brother while you accuse someone else of having an Islamic agenda.

You said,"If Buhari can islamise Nigeria, so can Sambo (who says gej can't drop dead tomorrow?), so can any northerner that will take over in 2019 when gej must leave "

like I said before, "it will be very difficult for anyone to "islamise" this country." sambo seems to be a moderate muslim same as yaradua was hence I don't think we have to fear the progress of the Islamic agenda from him.

Who told you Sambo and yar'adua are moderate Muslims? How did you measure it?

How many speeches have you heard sambo give to be able to know how his mind works? What makes you think this 'moderate' Muslim isn't a friend of isis militant group? Does Sambo lack the "born to rule" mentality?

An important point I want to make here is that most of these northern states who claim they are under sharia law aren't even practising it as their sources (quran and hadiths) prescribe. Go to Saudi Arabia, Iran and you shall see the real sharia law in action.

I don't u derstand you here. You're scared of sharia yet you're not worried about the sharia signed into law in some northern States, yet you're trying to stop folks from voting buhari because he'll set up sharia countrywide.

Is it that you believe buhari is a better student of the Quran and hadith than every other notable northern Muslim?

My brother, the bottom line is "learn to separate politics from religion. Our 'christian' brother will gladly do a trade with the devil if it will assure him of 2015. Go to the streets of PH and ask what Jonathan's boys are doing with ogboni.

Image123:
I'd rather have persecution and a few good christians, than the current pseudo persecution with so many wishy-washy christians all over the place. So, bring it on already, Nigeria deserves change, whether on the part of the current administration or else where.

Very correct image. What's all the fear mongering about sef?

How many alhajis with multiple wives are hobnobbing with Jonathan this very moment in his quest for a second term?

Abegi jare

Ifeann:
There are definitely many non-tribalistic moderate muslim who believe in one Nigeria for everyone and do not promote the Islamic agenda. Buhari is not one of them.

But your post and those of the other muslim-phobic brethren didn't make this differentiation and it does a lot of harm to the ethno-religious harmony we so badly need in this country.

Since you single buhari out, how do you think or imagine he will singlehandedly islamise the country? How liberal is Adamu Muazu (PDP chairman) who signed sharia into law as governor of Bauchi state?

For those who say sharia was mentioned a number of times in our constitution, do we realise that Nigerian constitution since our founding emanated from ideas contained in English law? And do we realise English law is greatly influenced by the Anglican church? For instance, where did Sunday as a day of rest come from? Islam or Christianity?

I won't stop anybody from disliking buhari (he's a human with his failings like the rest of us) but that islamisation tag can fit on any Muslim if we have to be objective.

If Buhari can islamise Nigeria, so can Sambo (who says gej can't drop dead tomorrow?), so can any northerner that will take over in 2019 when gej must leave (if he wins on Feb 14)

I don't expect oil prices to drop to the 2009 figure of $35 dollars before coming back up for the simple fact that US shale oil (which is largely responsible) won't be profitable at that price. American oil companies are cutting back on new investments even as we speak and that means job losses, tax revenue loss etc which will hurt the US economy eventually.

The sensible thing is for all concerned parties to work towards an acceptable price for oil (though I believe the era of $100 oil is over for good). This is what OPEC and Saudi are saying in so much words and inaction.

However for Nigeria, we have to face the truth that our greedy and lazy dependence on oil is over except we want to be left with a failed state. We must start refining internally to sell to citizens and conserve foreign exchange. Every oil company that wishes to continue producing oil in tbe country must have it in their MOU to build a refinery to sell refined products at market price for profit.

There's no other time to go back to the farm. The cocoa heaps in the west must return, the groundnut pyramids in the north must come back while the palm oil industry of the south south and south east too must be encouraged to thrive. There are a lot of things we could do agriculturally. We have the land to do it and we must do it.

Enough of running to abuja to share freebies. Oil will no longer be black gold. Its lustre is fast being eroded.

This is my own layman's contribution to this issue

Ifeann:
Anybody who thinks that the "isalmization" of Nigeria is not possible obviously has no idea of the domination/"all submission" ideology of Islam and the extent the conservative northern elites will go to spite the progressive southerners. Go and look at youtube videos of what Ahmedu bello, religious bigot extraordinare and tribalist,and see what he had to say about southerns, especially the Ibos. This is a man the northerners hold in high esteem. If anyone is still in doubt you should then findout why there are over 48 Islamic countries. It will be hard to ever "isalmization" Nigeria but why do we need to give a self confessed pro sharia northern conservative religious bigot a chance.

I keep asking if these same northerners who wish to islamise Nigeria voted for Jonathan in 2011 or he rigged like any normal politician which will automatically make him a crook, a thief and an unbeliever in the same class as the Muslims whom we tag unbelievers (which is balanced by them tagging us unbelievers as well anyway)?

Also I forgot to add this. Is Sambo, Jonathan's VP also among these Muslims who want to islamise Nigeria? What about Muazu the PDP chairman? Is he also to be feared?

Mintayo:
Great. This is good. If only we christains know the extend at which the Muslims are willing to go. No Muslim will tell u that he or she is voting GEJ out because of the economy or the situation of the country. It is simply because the man is a Christian. Quote me anywhere, any Muslim that says otherwise Is only deceiving you as usual.
And thinking that Nigeria cannot be islamise is a risk on its own.

@the bolded, My bro, do you honestly believe no Muslim voted Jonathan in 2011? If you say they didn't, how then did he win? By rigging?

shdemidemi:
@Candour.. Happy New Year bro

Not seen you around here in a while, I am guessing you've not had spare time for nairaland lately .

Same to you bro. I've been busy on some important project lately. I'll soon be free to engage again

Cheers bro

Dear sister FortresOfChrist, happy new year to you.

Most of those who have responded have answered well in my opinion as they've largely said the sane thing.

Justification makes us as though we never sinned. When God looks at you and I today, he doesn't see a sinner, he sees his own righteousness

2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

God is the one who justifies you and nobody can declare you unjustified.

Romans 8:33 KJV
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So be rest assured that your slate has been wiped clean and this will make you live victoriously over sin to the glory of him who gave so much for your redemption.

God bless you

Image123:
You should wish me your uncle separately, not together with everyone. I'm a man of God like pastor C.

Wetin you chop wey don make you high like this thou man of God come in the spirit of pastor C? Softly softly with this 'anointing' o

WinsomeX:
I wish all naira landers merry Christmas. Specifically:

Gombs, nlmediator, Alwaystrue, Bidam, Image123, mbaemeka and all others.

I also felicitate with shdemidemi, trustman, BabaGnoni, PastorKun, SirJohn, Candour, vooks, nannymcphee, Goshen360, frosbel, DrummaBoy and all the rest.

I trust God that theological discusses of 2015 will unveil greater knowledge of the person of Jesus Christ to us all.

Enjoy the season.

Merry Christmas and a prosperous new year to all of us

sammied:
The above highlighted with blue is a very big lie.....am amazed someone who claim to understand scriptures can make such bogus statement. What do you say to 2nd kings20:1- 11.
Is there any condition there?...God clearly sent Isaiah...God said hezekiah will SURELY die...and the prophet deliver the WORD and left....the rest of the story is there.....

May God help his people

And God also sent the same Isaiah back within a matter of hours to deliver a counter message because Hezekiah wept and begged for mercy.

It would have been a different thing if Hezekiah ignored the prophecy and still didn't die according to Isaiah's declaration.

The God who cannot be challenged gave a word and decided to change it for mercy sake. I think it's God we should take issues up with, not Isaiah. He didn't deliver an inaccurate message.

God alone knows what he wanted to achieve by giving Hezekiah a message that made the king fall on his knees in pleas and prayer then rescind the decision.

Gombs:
Candour wasn't silent, he's always been different from them. He doesn't 'follow the crowd' . but Pastorkun, WinsomeX aka Drummaboy, shedemidemi, lobeez and the rest of the board room folks won't cone around, even the ever confused nora544. but... mention Church and Money in one sentence, come see them na...Nora will full the thread with annoying writing, ah! mention tithe...come see them with Kung fu skills na.

take them serious no more.

Actually my friend Gombs, we all are guilty, to different degrees, of what you accuse all those guys of. I can list a number of threads where the glaring inconsistencies and wrong ideas of you and friends have been exposed and other members of your gang were loudly silent. It simply shows how human we are and not gods. We can only get better as we keep on studying, meditating and praying.

On the money matter u mentioned, my bro, I hate fraud. I hate cheating, I hate stealing and I dislike folks who rob others of their resources using the bible and I think a lot of honest folks do too.

So my friend, we all including you and your gang tend to 'cover up' for 'other gang' members sometimes which is why I avoid taking the moral high ground on issues like this and I'll advice you and friends not to either.

Good we both disagree with Goshen here. Let's stick to that bro.

Cheers

nlMediator:
Aah, you mean I heard the wrong voice telling me where you were? That's why we need to stick to "sufficiency of scripture." Sola scriptura all the way! No more false prophets.

Exactly!! Get thee behind me.....false prophet

I support the queen 100%. As you can see, listening to her has made you a much better person. Remember, how terrible life was before you met her?

Nah..Who told u that?? I was born 'saint Candour' bro

nlMediator:
Welcome, bro. I can see you've been out there raking in the cash, while devoted servants of The Lord like us have been busy here toiling in the Master's Vineyard! Well, so long as you share the loot with those doing the Father's business, all is well.

Bro, you're wrong actually. I'd been home all these while reading the posts on the thread but not venturing to post partly because I really am enjoying all the discussions and also because I'm banned from any other relationship (NL is like a mistress ) while at home with my queen and little royals (the Lady does not share ).

Got back to work today so I'm free to engage now but you guys have gone so far that I'll have to be content with just reading and learning for now.

I like the idea of the conference even if I'm not in full agreement with everything said there or with some posts here.

We all will always have where we need growth and more understanding. I only pray for it not to be on the more essential tenets of our faith so we don't run the race in vain.

So carry go......I dey for una back gidigba

sirjohnson:
Mehn, if Buhari really said all these, then I wont vote for him o. Chisoz kraist.... I just wish the MODS can move this to fp

Bamanga Tukur also called boko haram freedom fighters, has he been expelled from GEJ's circle of friends? Or deleted from PEJ's list of buisness partners?

FFK sef don turn character 'appraiser' abi?

Wonderful thread and posts.

Reading and learning

Cheers all

Gombs:


So, it would be ok for me to keep having sex with a girl I have told my pastor I want to marry? Are you serious?

Cc:
Alwaystrue
Mbaemeka
WinsomeX
Candour

Galatians 5:13 KJV
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

If you've reached the age where sex becomes a necessity for you, go and marry. Marriage in the eyes of the law needs only 4 people: the couple and 2 witnesses. You don't need food, a gown, suit, a hall or a car. Just do it and don't give occasion to unbelievers to have something to say about Christianity.

1 Corinthians 6:12 KJV
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

It all boils down to self control. There are some things we are at liberty to do that we don't do because of considerations of propriety, whether they're sin or not. If pagan cultures can exercise self restraint in these matters, why not a Christian?

1 Corinthians 8:9, 11-13 KJV
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. [11] And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? [12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. [13] Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Abstinence won't kill anyone. If marriage isn't possible yet, stay away.

Image123:
i like the colours.

I half hoped you'll do

Image123:
Beautiful and straight put. Lengthy posts please wait for now. @Candour etc

You know you're my friend .....your posts are the only ones that now interest me on this thread after all I've done here in time past

According to image:

Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing.

According to Oyakhilome's devotional:

Actually, you pay your tithe; [size=14pt]you don’t give it[/size], as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift.

Image123:
Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
Luk 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Luk 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Pharisees were hypocrites because they made the outside clean but the inside was very dirty and wickedness. They dwelt on none essentials and were mainly driven by the letter of the law. Here were people who thought it is not lawful to put their 30pieces of silver in the treasury but had no problem using the same money to damn a disciple to betray the Lord's Christ. Did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Are not the silver and gold God's? What makes agricultural produce more God's and holier than silver and gold? Is God's holy Hill not laden with gold and precious stones? Give alms of such things as ye have.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

True Christ hates hypocrisy. See what he told all the Jews listening to his sermon that day.

Matthew 23:1-3 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2]Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:[3]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do: but do not ye after their works:for they say, and do not.

He informed them that they were to do ALL that the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees told them to do, not just tithes because they represented Moses. Remember the law of Moses was still in supremacy at this particular time. If you have to tithe because Christ said it ought to be done there, then you MUST do all the scribes and Pharisees have coded as laws for the Jews too.

Why would anyone attack and contest vigorously what i give of mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Why are antitithers more concerned than God about my tithes of mine own income? Antitihers are disturbed, they are uneasy, they are very worried, troubled and agitated. Almost traumatized to see me do what i will with mine own. It's perpetually amusing, is there a spirit of some sort behind these? It's not normal. You know, i've met non-tithers, and have met and have friends and believers who do not agree with or have the same opinions and Bible perspectives as i do. but antitithers, they are a different brand entirely. Ironically, antitithers are aware of the effectiveness and provision of tithes and gracious, bountiful giving. They make a lot of noise and publicity about how tithes make pastors the richest in the world, or something along those lines. i think a lot of their opinion is exaggerated though.
But the point is that if tithes is so acclaimed and agreed to be saturating/overfilling in the church, why the bile against it? Why pass over the love of God as it were?

Whoever has tried to stop your tithing is infringing on your fundamental human right. You even have the right to spend your cash on marijuana if it catches your fancy. I'll defend your inalienable right to indulge. However, why we can't keep quiet is because of wicked, callous, manipulative and insensitive messages on tithe preached by those who should know better. Since it's possible you've not heard or seen them before, some are reproduced below and i expect you to get angry with these mog too, infact get very righteously angry.

Oyakhilome

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a robber: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

WHY WE GIVE OUR FIRST FRUITS? (THE BENEFITS)
We are commanded to give it [Prov 3: 9-10, Ex 22: 29] By giving your first fruit, you secure and sanctify the rest of your fruits ( Rom 11: 16) We give our first fruits that the blessing of God may rest upon us ( Eze 44:30) By giving it, you demonstrate your appreciation for God and the things He has done in your life (Deut 26:10 – 11) It releases the anointing upon your life. The bible says thy presses shall burst out with new wine. New wine symbolizes the anointing ( Prov 3:9) God is delighted in our obedience to His word; for it is better to obey than to sacrifice [I Sam 15: 22] If you don’t give your first fruit, God will go after it because it belongs to Him ( Ex 4: 22 – 23) Anyone who holds back his First Fruit exposes himself to evil. As God said to Israel. [Jeremiah 2: 3]....

WAYS OF GIVING FIRST FRUITS
1. New Job: First salary package
2. New Year: First salary or first income ( for those who don’t earn a salary)
3. Old Job (Promotions) – Increase i.e. the difference between the old and new salary. (If your heart condemns you go ahead and give all. He is looking for something to multiply back to you).


https://www.facebook.com/READRHAPSODYOFREALITIES/posts/651164134943691

Adeboye

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty or eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

Pat Robertson

Quoting Malachi, Robertson responded, “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devourer’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devourer,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

https://www.nairaland.com/1541026/pat-robertson-tells-elderly-woman

Creflo Dollar

''Now, you know, we’re under the Blood of Jesus, so we can’t shoot and stone people like we used to. All we have to do is repent and God will forgive us and take us where we need to be. But I can tell you, man, if it wasn’t for the Blood, there’d be a whole lot of us being stoned and being in Hell right now over the tithe. But for [“if not for”?] the Blood of Jesus, we’d be doomed.

I mean, I thought about when we first built “The Dome,” I wanted to put some of those little moving bars and give everybody a little card. They’d stick it in a little computer slot. If they were tithing, beautiful music would go off and, you know, [Creflo sings] “Welcome, welcome, welcome to the World Dome.” [Congregation laughs.]

But…if they were non-tithers, the bar would lock up, the red and blue lights would start going, the siren would go off, and a voice would go out throughout the entire dome, “Crook, crook, crook, crook!” [Congregation laughs.] Security would go and apprehend them, and once we got them all together, we’d line them up in the front and pass out Uzis by the ushers and point our Uzis right at all those non-tithing members ’cause we want God to come to church, and at the count of three “Jesus”-es we’d shoot them all dead. And then we’d take them out the side door there, have a big hole, bury them, and then go ahead and have church and have the anointing. [Mostly silence in the congregation, but one or two still actually laugh.]

Aren’t you glad we’re under the Blood of Jesus? [“Yeah, yeah,” from the congregation.] Because if we were not under the Blood of Jesus, I would certainly try it.''

http://kennethcopelandblog.com/2011/06/15/creflo-dollar-says-shoot-them-all-dead/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDNxZcOa8

I'm sure you'll agree with me that its wickedness that makes messages like this come out and it's totally unchristian.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

This is actually talking about the needy among the brethren and folks who have mentioned it on this thread have been accused of playing Judas. If you're now getting concerned about the poor, then that's a good thing. Hope you'll help others see the necessity of taking welfare of needy brethren close to their hearts?

Matthew 25:40 And the king shall answer and say unto them, Verily i say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me

Giving to the poor equates to giving God almighty as Christ affirmed in that scripture. It means a needy brother can even collect your tithe if you must pay it after all Christ said he could be represented by them and we all, individually are priests and are called God's temple.

if we have this world's good, and we know the need of the Church. Why shut our bowels of compassion and make some groanings about agricultural products and levites and storehouses? You have the money, the Church needs the money, i want to give the money. But you are on about yam, wheat, cassava and turkey. How dwelleth the love of God in him? It's a valid question. Let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Blackmail alert! Blackmail alert!!

No christian is against giving in a gathering of believers. No christian is against meeting the legitimate needs of the church. No christian is interested in starving the body of Christ of necessary resources. The contention has always been against manipulating Christians to give or threatening them to give.

Just allow the children of God be led by this scripture below and you'll see all of us living happily ever after

2Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

God bless you

Gombs:
Vooks, I don't subscribe to redundancy. Thanks

Candour, your post has been dealt with here already. Hagin was not against tithing, you walk in a curse for not tithing, God is not cursing you, you simply truncated someccertain blessing which ae not compulsory to have.

That Hagin supported tithing is not in dispute. Even my daughter knows he does. What is in contention is if both of you are on the same page concerning the theory of curses.

Hagin wrote in very lucid English that

"I've also heard preachers try to hammer Christians by quoting from Malachi chapter 3 saying that they are cursed if they don't pay tithes and give offerings. Obviously, this is not correct. While the people of Malachi's day were under the Law of Moses, the New Testament plainly declares that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13).

It can't get any clearer than that.

At least we are sure mba disagrees with you and oyaks on the appellation of robbers put on non tithers.

Joagbaje:
Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

The verse above makes it clear that Jesus has abolished the law of commandments, contained in ordinances, given to the Jews in the Old Testament. He fulfilled them and abolished them. The laws and commandments of the Old Testament are not relevant to the new creation in Christ Jesus. It’s therefore wrong for you to live your life trying to obey the Law.

Hebrews 7:12
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Lord Jesus became our High Priest in the New Testament, not in the order of the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood, but in the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:17&21). This signifies an eternal priesthood; a new priesthood, headed by Jesus Christ, different from what obtained in the Old Testament.
Now, the importance of that is this: Jesus Christ has become our High Priest, and He’s not the High Priest of the Old Testament Law; He has a new law. Remember what we read in Hebrews 7:12, that a change in priesthood automatically means a change of the Law. Since the priesthood has been changed and Jesus Christ is now our High Priest in the New Testament, the law has also been changed. That’s why Jesus said in

John 13:34,
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

Love has replaced all the laws and ordinances of the Old Testament (Read Romans 13:8-10)

. In Matthew 22:37-40
"…Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.".

‎​This however doesn’t mean that the Old Testament is not useful to us today.

Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

The things written in the Old Testament have been written only for our learning; they’re not the revelations by which we live today as new creations in Christ. Now learn more of what it is to walk in love.

Indeed!!!

Gombs:
Bobo, you've quoted him outta context, now flip your pages back to page 67, don't worry, see the pic below

I still think you are . Howbeit, not exactly a lie

Notice he was against preachers hammering christians in a threat that they are cursed, I wrote he who doesn't places himself in a curse (limit yourselve from a set blessing) those are two different things o.

my friend don dey speak in tongues
see what you said that started the discussion

Gombs:
Good... but we've debated this over and over again. You place yourself under a curse by robbing God, you don't have to start a new gist about that for we have done that ages ago.

let me paraphrase for you. Hagin said ''preachers who quote malachi to tell christians they're cursed for not tithing are obviously not correct'' that shouldnt be difficult to agree on na?

Robbing God has it's penatly here on earth, He never said it has eternal consequences for robbing him.

where will a robber who refuses to stop robbing end up?

Convinent answer...that means there are none. Ok

so you can't answer?

If it was only wars, how come his grandson had enough knowledge to tithe, noting Jacob didn't fight a war?

the bible said it was only a tenth of the spoils of war.

Hebrews 7:4 KJV
Now consider how great this man was , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

his grandson wasn't tithing. Jacob vowed to give a tenth to God contingent upon God meeting some conditions. Was that how Abraham traded tithe of spoils of war with Melchizedek or God?