₦airaland Forum

Queen - just to add - i dont know if you've watched the film "Precious" with Gabourey Sidibe and Monique, notice how the mother "Monique" uses food as an instrument of abuse to ensure that her daughter remains overweight and therefore unattractive.  The mother does this as revenge for what she perceives as her daughter's betrayal of her by engaging in a non consensual incestuous relationship with her late husband.   I really  really hated this film as i felt that it feeds into all the worst stereo typical images of african americans and in particular of the african american woman as irresponsible welfare queen.  In as much as the film glosses over the root causes of dysfunction in the african american community it does highlight the issue of over eating and obesity.

queensmith:
Dont get me wrong, im not saying its good to encourage a child to become overweight, of course you teach a child to take care of his/herself. Teach them to brush thier teeth take a bath comb thier hair, play sports eat healthy etc etc. Its very important, but what is WRONG to teach a child is to be self concious over their appearance or to make them think societies expectations are healthy.

The problem that you are having here is accepting is that being overweight or obese = unattractive, for some reason you are having  a major problem getting your head around this basic premise, there is nothing attractive or desirable about being overweight, doctors will tell you that overweight people are at greater risk of heart problems and diabetes, aesthetically excessive weight has numerous downsides - clothes do not sit well on an overweight body - i simply cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would defend obesity or excessive weight.
It is not a matter of teachign a child to be self conscious - it is about teaching a child to TAKE PRIDE IN THEIR APPEARANCE - if you dont care how you look you might as well be a homeless person living on the streets.  let me ask you a question - if you had to go for a job interview would you wear a pair of dog eaten jeans and an old t shirt or a nice clean suit with a well ironed shirt? if appereances did not count most people would turn up to interviews looking unkempt and shabby but they dont - ever wondered why?
Like i said - we live in a world where appearance is everything and unfortunately that includes weight - if you want to get on in life or if you want your kids to get on in life you have to teach them that physical apperaance is important - note i am not saying that you should teach them to be ashamed of looking black (in accordance with mandingo's philosophy) you have to teach them to take pride in looking healthy (slim or reasonably slim in physical apperance) obesity is not an option for anyone who wants to live a normal life - UNLESS YOU ARE A MULTI MILLIONAIRE - in which case you can dictate the rules and everyone else will be forced to go along with them.

In reality, your the one thats being unrealistic. Confidence doesnt come with being skinny. Its something that a child gets from home. No matter what he/she comes in to contact with outside as long as she has inner security, emotional stability, and regards herself in high esteem, no magazine, boy or bully can take it down!
Going to private school or having private tuition has nothing to do with it, parents are meant to protect thier children! children act on what they have learnt from home, a child that bullies another for being fat has learnt to do so from home, a child with low confidence because of her weight has been given body image problems from his/her parents.

Yes confidence does not come with being skinnny, however being fat definitely does not imbue you with a whole lot of confidence, if you speak to a lot of outwardly bubbly fat people you will find that their outwardly bubbly personality is really just a mask, which they use to cover up inner feelings of inadequacy
Many secretly wish that they were slim and eventually work towards reducing their weight.
Parents are meant to protect their childdren - but i would argue part of that protection is ensuring that they are able to thrive in an environment with other kids, if that means a certain level of physical conformity ie weight control then i am more than willing to go along with that as i would want my child to be happy and not be an outsider or loner, is it too much to ask that kids should look nice and be able to feel confident when they are around their friends?

If i were to accept your argument that we should not be so quick to conform what sort of life would that mean for my kids? what would i do  when they were by themselves? how would i be able to help them in a situation where they were faced with a classroom full of sneering kids  making nasty jokes about their weight? Would i have to employ a chaperone to follow them all over school in order to protect them from classroom bullies?

A child is not born with any sort of idea of his/her body, only parents are to blame for children having low confidence. It doesnt matter if you are the fattest ugliest person in the world, with the right mind you survive anywhere. Thats why there ARE fat kids that are popular, have plenty friends plenty girlfriends/boyfriends play sports and so on and so on. yes, but she will never feel attractive or confident if she has been trained to conform to societies expectations. in that case, an overweight child with shallow parents has no chance!

Again you are not being realistic - children have to live, grow and learn around other children and as a result they will be forced to confront people who may bully, taunt or abuse them for being different, it is the duty of a parent to protect or guard against such eventualities, if a child can be encouraged to eat properly and avoid being overweight then the parent should do this without feeling that they are making the child feel "self conscious" about their weight.

queensmith:
lmao!tbh when i first watched the show i thought THE EXACT same thing!!! But it was lost when I watched it! Im in love with the family they are sweet, humble and loving! there arent many families like that anymore!

Okay Queen - let me get this right, when you watched the family - you came to the same conclusion as mandingo that "ALL OF THEM ARE UGLY" but you changed your opinion when you watched the show and got to know more about the individual family members and then fell in love with them for being "sweet, humble and loving" - correct me if im wrong but doesnt this conflict with the argument you have been having on here with Sagamite in which you state that obesity should not be used as a yardstick in determining a person's self worth? If we are to accept your view that obesity is not important and should not determine a person's self worth why even notice that a person is ugly, surely if you are willing to down play obesity - you should equally be willing to downplay ugliness - no?

PhysicsMHD:
^^^^^

Not to side with anybody, but if you dig through Mandingo's posts, you'll find he rails against white people pretty hard, so you guys might have more in common than you think.

thats funny, i could have sworn that these were a few of the topics he posted on NL:

why are nigerians so dark and ugly while ethiopians are so light and beautiful

thank god for slavery

why are nigerian women so fat and ugly

maybe its me but i get the impression that he has a deep seated hatred for black (black being the operative word here) african people - no?

Ahh mandingo NL's resident  self hating house negro.

Mandingo can you answer this very simple question - why are you ashamed of your african ancestry?

The reason i ask this is that your posts are full of anger, venom and hatred towards africa and its people - why do you hate yourself so much, do you despise your parents for having black african ancestry?

Do you wish you were born with european facial features?  do you beleive that your life would have been so much easier if you were more european in appearance?

Are you one of many african american men who detest and despise dark skinned black women because they remind them of themselves?

I know that your ideal of "black" beauty is light skin, light eyes and european facial features hence your utter contempt for african people.

You describe the family on this series as ugly - would you have described the Osbournes as ugly as well or would you have been full of praise for them?

Mandingo do you seek out white women for relationships/procreation  in order to avoid ever having children who look african in appearance ?

Let me break it down for you my man - you are a lost cause - white amerikkka has destroyed your self worth, and in a way i can sympathise with you - you turn on the tv and the epitome of beauty is the skinny, blonde, big breasted bimbo - that becomes your template - this is why many african american "celebrities" emulate this look from Mary J blige (with her blonde wig) to Vivica A Fox with her reconstructed nose, big boobs, bleached skin, fake hair  and plastic boobs - the white man has taught you how to hate yourself and you are now so caught up in hating yourself that it feels perfectly normal.  If thats how you want to live your life fine, but there are some of us who refuse to accept the european ideal of beauty and who are proud of our african features - i know to you african features = ugly but i cant blame you this is what you have been conditioned to believe is the truth and there is nothign i can do to change your mindset.

I can only imagine the inner turmoil your mind must be in, my advice to you is do not have children with a black woman because you will scar them mentally for life, focus all your energy on finding a white woman who will help you dilute your african genes and help you to reach the promised land of white physical appearance which i know is your ultimate goal in life.

Kobojunkie:
Mind posting the contents of the page you speak of?

i cant post everything because its a table entitled: fate of July 1966 coup participants and there are several names on the list but i'll set out the well known names:

Name                                                    Unit                                     Position achieved        fate
2nd Lieutenant Mohammed Abacha -   3rd battalion Kaduna             head of state         died of heart attack 8/06/98

Lieutenant Ibrahim babangida       1st reconnaisance Kaduna    head of state           Alive, took part in further coups


Lieutenant Muhammadu Buhari      2 Brigade Lagos                     Head of state           Alive, took part in further coups

queensmith:
wow,
Maybe its an african thing, conformity is mental slavery. there is nothing great about it. As much as western world has an obsession on appearance. Africans are much more judgemental, and much more obsessed.
Do you really believe your daughter will turn 18 click her fingers and develop a more realistic state of mind? NO! you teach your child to become a slave to society, search for attention and only ever be satisfied with herself if others approve of her, youve brought up a girl with low self esteem confidence issues and that will follow her forever!Your confidence doesnt have to be determined by how you look, its determined by how you feel! If you raise your child properly she will feel good about herself and maintain confidence no matter what comes around. Definitely I believe every parent should make sure their kids do not become obese but you dont do that by making them self conscious, you do that by encouraging a good diet and exercise. I agree it can be an added burden,but i dont think 'never finding a man' or 'never being truly happy' is one of them!

No Queen, im raising my daughter to love herself BUT i am also raising her to have awareness of the world that she lives in, i teach her to be proud of her african heritage and african features and i also teach her not to feel that she is less than the european ideal of beauty but that doesent mean that by the same token i will sit by and allow her to over eat or not care about her physical appearance. 
Queeen you are not being realistic - we are social beings we do not exist in a vacuum, in order to survive we have to interact with other people and as i said unless you are fabulously rich and able to afford private tuition you can't really control every aspect of your child's social interaction.  A young girl who is overweight is not going to feel confiden in the company of her friends who are slim, attractive and trendy she is constantly going to feel as if she is less than everyone else no matter how much you tell her you love her and how great she is,  parental love is important but she will still  need to feel a sense of belonging when she is around her friends and if she is overweight or obese her self confidence will go downhill no matter how much love you give her at home.

For me the issue is not about her finding a man or finding a man to date but rather the ability to feel attractive and confident  - in my opinion if she is overweight or obese it will be difficult for her to feel any of those things.

queensmith:
What are you saying? the western worlds obsession with image is extremely unhealthy! its not even accompanied with isolation, its accompanied with death, sickness, psychological trauma and self harm. An those are what people do to themselves!

I dont dispute that, but unfortunately we are living in their world and unless you are wealthy enough to pay for private one to one tuition, children have to interact with other children, i personally would prefer a world in which everyone could be accepted and treated well based on their individuality and the  content of their character and not the way they look but unfortunately this is not the world we live in, appearance is everything and there is no denying this.

Since i am forced to live in a society in which conformity is the only way to have a peaceful life (at least up until the age of 18) i will want my daughter to conform to that model until she is of an age when she has more control over her life. 

The best thing a parent can do for his/her child is to make sure however they look they have confidence in themselves and dont become unhealthily obsessed like those around them! you end up with a healthy happy child! to me thats much more important than having a child that wants to wear designer clothes, wear make up, starve herself or have plastic surgery because of the crazy world around her! You have a daughter, will you prefer she spends her time obsessing over her image (and never being satisfied with it) or being happy and enjoying her youth?

I hear what you are saying and im not advocating anythign crazy like plastic surgery for under 18s (which some mothers encourage) all im saying is that kids should be able to feel confident about the way they look and i honestly beleive that if a kid is obese that level of confidence is drastically reduced, i will therefore do whatever it takes to ensure that my kid does not end up  being the fat kid that every body bullies or/and avoids, everyone wants their kids to do well, and doing well includes being able to fit in physically and mentally, it doesnt mean that you are jumping onto the conformist bandwagon it simply means that you are trying to give your kids the best chance in life as life is already hard enough without being burdened with the added problem of being overweight.

Sagamite:
Overweight people date too but they do struggle to find date as they have a limited pool to select from especially when they are obese which Ola is. They are dating means little since their choice is limited (extremely in the case of obese people) and they have to compromise their desires to get most dates. Choice and options is one of the core ingredients of happiness.

Please lets not pretend being overweight is not a problem for self-esteem and desirability. There is a very high probability that little girl will be unhappy, self-concious and low self-esteemed in the future. Almost all women desire to be seen as one of the most beautiful things on Earth and being obese will reduce to close to zero the proportion of people that will see a girl like that.

very true, thats why i said her mum needs to encourage her to lose weight, in the west image is everything especially for young people, if you are not attractive, trendy, wear fashionable clothes and are of a reasonable shape and size (especially if you are a girl)  - you end up being bullied and isolated - that is the reality - there is very little parents can do to change that aside from homeschooling your kids and keeping them isolated - that in turn leads to the children becoming outsiders who will find it impossible to fit in with other kids, its better to raise  children with an awareness of these factors as opposed to pretending these harsh realities don't exist.

Kobojunkie:
Buhari involved in the 1966 coup?

Yes, but not just him - IBB, TY Danjuma and Abacha among many other northern soldiers were involved in the July 66 coup

see page 245 of Oil, Politics and violence by Max Siollun, 2009

unsuitable to lead nigeria, given his involvement in the July 1966 coup and subsequent coups in nigeria.

queensmith:
I think the same; They let them off saying things like'they are british thats the way they talk'
Instead of making it clear they should never talk to them like that! but julie is generally very rude she even talks to her older brother that way too!

and although ola is overweight, I like how the parents never made a mountain out of it because thats worst than anything! She doesnt have self esteem issues and is a very happy child, even though im very sure she is attending a school where all the girls are skinny and self obsessed. Ola is very spoilt but will still have confidence in herself, thats all that matters!

Julie needs to be checked into a counselling session asap - i think she's angry at the world, i think i understand where she is coming from as i have a young daughter myself , she is a young black woman growing up in a world where black women have no voice and are virtually invisible, however she has a loving mother who she can lean on for assurance, there arent many support systems for black people and black women in general in the UK and i think this feeling of isolation has manifested itself in the anger that she feels but i think she needs to get rid of the anger through counselling and engaging in activities which will restore feelings of self worth. 

Ola is lovely, she is innocent and cheerful, my only concern is her weight- i think mum needs to spend more time with her and give her more guidance on nutrition and personal appearance, she's now at an age where she will want to start dating and she will therefore need to start changing her diet, and paying more attention to how she looks, other than that she seems well rounded and confident.

just to add - i think Julie has been spoilt by mum and dad hence her disrespectful attitude to everyone in the house, notice how mum is afraid of even confronting her when she is being rude, i remember watching one episode where she was talkign to mum and dad as if they were her age mates - it really pissed me off, the fault lies with the parents, for whatever reason they walk on egg shells whenever they are around her and this is why she has evolved into the monster that she is today, she is going to find it really difficult to get on in life if she continues with that type of attitude.

watched a few episodes of this - my view on the family members

mum: very loving, hard working, supportive and a good mum

dad: a bit spaced out, looks bored most of the time, but hardworking and loves his kids

ayo: my favourite, funny, self deprecating, very down to earth, honest, very likeable

julie: omg awful awful awful, desperately needs anger management classes has self esteem issues hence her very antagonistic attitude towards siblings especially baby sister, may have been a victim of bullying in school.

Olu: easy going, amiable and even tempered

Ola: cuddly, respectful to her siblings, but might drift away from siblings later in life due to different educational background.

All in all a nice family with good values and very close knit.

buzugee:
ethnic affiliations ? i am of the nubian persuasion  a black man from the motherland. a direct descendant of the moors, king shaka zulu and imhotep.
see with tribal or ethnic affiliations ? you instantly create enmity even if you havent done anything to harm anyone. tis crazy like that.

oh yeah you got your sexy alright. slide me the digits  lol

oh boy take am easy - this ya toasting is something else - anyway my lips are 

and for the poster comparing mandela to obasanjo lets compare their acheivements:

mandela - sacrificed 27 years of his life in prison becuase he dared to challenge the monstrous aparthied machine which was suported by the US, Britain, Israel and Europe, eventually forced the hand of the apartheid regime which eventually led to the implementation of a democratic system of govt in South africa. Despite such huge sacrifices - Mandela remains a man of great humility, good humour and honesty.

Obasanjo - embezzled billions of dollars of his nation's oil revenue, handed over his country to the dictates of the IMF and world bank, massacred thousands of people in the niger delta region who dared to challenge the criminal partnership of the nigrian govt, Shell and various other IOCs.
Finally tried to perpetuate himself in power for a third term despite reducing 70% of the nigerian population to living on the equivalent of $1 a day - With all these non acheivements he still exudes great arrogance, disdain and contempt for the nigerian people, to date he is still operating as an illegitimate force in the corridors of power, hence his close association with imperialist predators like the US and Britain.

Guyman02:
There is a lot of distortion of facts by the international media sponsored by France and US. The supreme court of Ivory Coast declared Gbagbo winner just like it did in US when Bush (Jnr) rigged election in Florida and nobody went to war to impose Al Gore on America.

Before America goes to war the consider the post war benefits to their country. When we intervened in Liberia and Sierra Leone so many gallant Nigerian soldiers and resources were wasted and today the European companies are there mining copper, diamond, timber while we sit here typing trash on NL. How many Nigerian firms are operating in Liberia and Sierra-Leone and repatriating money back home?

Now the French and America want us to go in and install their puppet Ouattara and handover Ivory Coast to them with our blood and next our brothers and sisters residing there will bear the brunt if a civil war erupts, while the Europeans and Americans will quickly send warships and aircrafts to evacuate their citizens.

Our soldiers are required in Jos, Maiduguri and other flash points in the country where they are failing to guarantee the security of lives and property and not in Cote'divoire.

OBJ who organised a parallel PDP primary at his Library that declared his daughter Iyabo winner to replace Abiolas daughter is not democrat enough to ask Gbagbo to step down. He who seeks equity must come with clean hands. Or you think that the Ivorians are not following events happening in Nigeria?

The Ghanian president pulled out because the same people instigating problems now in Ivory Coast where the same people who ordered the murder of their nationalist leader Nkruma and Lumumba of Congo because the tried to entrench Pan Africanism and remove colonial imperialism and Western thought process that has held Africa down.

thanks so much for this bro, can you imagine the likes of obasanjo having the nerve to lecture Gbagbo on stepping down  - how is it that a man who tried to perpetuate himself in power for a third term in nigeria will now take himself over to Ivory Coast to lecture the leader of a soveriegn nation to step down.  You have said it all in your post, the other question is this - why didnt the international community intervene when IBB annulled June 12? Does it mean that they pick and choose when to intervene, does intervention depend on who wins ie is intervention only an option when the "wrong person" wins?

I am totally staggered at how many of our people are still allowing themselves to swallow hook, line and sinker the lies of these imperialist predators.  Does it mean that nigerian troops are supposed to go and die so that France, the EU and american business interests in Ivory Coast are protected - would the EU, France or america send troops to go and die for something of no benefit to their own nation?  The sooner that Obasanjo respects himself and stops running errands for his imperialist masters the sooner sanity will return to this situation, let them leave Ggbagbo and Ouattara to negotiate some way to resolve this crisis without any military intervention, africans are not so stu.pid that they will be willing to die so that white imperialist vultures will continue with their appropriation of our natural resources.

All over west africa France has installed their various puppets in their former colonies - Paul Biya of Cameroun has been in power since 1982, Omar Bongo of Gabon was in power for 42 years before his recent death, Blaise Campaore of burkina faso has been in power since 1987 - all of these people opened up their respective economies to France's multinationals to ra.pe and pillage and in exchange they were guaranteed protection by the french intelligence services and military aid at no point did the international community object to any of these arrangements, now they want to come and tell us that Gbagbo should be ousted because he lost and the presidential elections - please lets wake up and stop allowing ourselves to be bamboozled by these thiefs.

er almost forgot - how about France's backing of former president of Ivory Coast - Houphouet Boigny for 33 years

morpheus24:
@RSA

Gbagbo does not have enough troops and miltary power to survive a war against the UN backed ECOWAS and northern troops combined. He knows fully well he will not win. What ECOWAS is trying to avoid is ultimately the loss of lives of civilians who will be caught  in the cross fire and a destablization of the region in terms of economics activity and refugees. Allowing Gbagbo stay on only creates a precedence for what future West African leaders will copy when faced with loosing a grip on power. It will become a norm within that region as usual and will the politics of the day for decades to come.

Zimbabwe's situation is vastly disimilar to Ivory coast's problems in historical, military and economic contexts. Southern African politics contrasts to West African politics in many ways. the number of coup de tats and civil wars that have arisen within the West African region will clue you into the deeper ethnic and religious issues that plague it. A consequence of an incorrect balkanization of the region by colonial rule but for which the West AFricans can't seem to figure out how best to resolve and move forward

so how do you explain France's backing of Omar Bongo of Gabon for 42 years

France's backing of Blaise Campaore of Burkina Faso since 1987 

France's backing of Paul Biya of Cameroun since 1982

Belgium and  the united states backing of Mobutu of Zaire for 38 years??

the "international community's" failure to intervene following IBB's annulment of June 12 1993 elections in nigeria??

I see the nigerian govts plans to keep future generations of nigerians dumb and functionally illiterate by cutting expenditure on education is now bearing fruit.

morpheus24:
What dire consequences?

Your problem is you continue to restate stuff without presenting any alternatives.  Good reporting. Aljazeera should hire you as a reporter. You'll do well.

What alternative is there for Greek? What do you believe will address the problem?.

The best alternative for Greece and every other european nation that is under attack from IMF predators following this economic credit crunch is to reform the banking institutions by implementing harsh regulatory mechanisms to prevent the abuse that caused this problem - why should the ordinary man on the street  pay for the economic mismanagement caused by the irresponsible banking elite?
You love to talk about solutions and alternatives but i note that none of your own responses have proferred solutions but merely parrotted right wing views espoused by western govts with vested interests, when are you going to come up with YOUR OWN INDEPENDENT VIEWS without parrotting the views of CNN, BBC and other corporate media outlets?

If I am guessing right then in your view its the same solution for African nations, to blame, ring to justice  and hang all the elitists, corporate, government officials who brought them into this situation. yureka, Clap for yourself!!!

Yes africans must adopt the same stance and refuse to continue to allow the mass transfer of wealth into the hands of the IMF and the multinationals, there should be fair and equitable negotiations around debt rescheduling without the imposition of draconian SAP policies.   
Africans like yourself are so used to being abused and exploited that you accept without question the predatory and unfavourable conditions imposed on african economies without a second thought, this is why you are blindly advocating that the Ivorien people should back a man whose loyalties and allegiances lie with an imperial enemy - lets give you a standing ovation!!!!

The greeks have outspent what their government brings and were complacent in and have no other way to go than to implement SAP stratgeies to cut spending including all types of social welfare policies.  Most of europe has followed suite because this has worked in the past but an alternative would be to negotiate long term strategic goals of concentrating on innovative solutions to increase competiveness thereby increase revenue in conjuction with cutting wasteful spending.

There you go again parrotting right wing economic propaganda, who said there are no other alternatives other than to implement SAP?  Name me one country in the world where SAP policies were implemented which worked.
Your ignorance is mind blowing!!  Who told you that the greek people were responsible for their country's  national deficit? the greek govt in cahoots with Goldman Sachs were solely responsible for the economic mismanagement of Greece's economy and then fraudulently tried to cover up their debts,when that didnt work they resorted to shifting the burden of paying off those debts onto the Greek people, can you explain the bolded sentence because it makes absolutely no sense to me !!!!!

The Africans IMF SAP strategies have been unsuccessful because of their broken down internal systematic and structural processess.

What does the above sentence mean? what do you mean by "broken down internal systematic structural proccesses" or are you merely using big words to make yourself sound intelligent?  It is apparent that your knowledge and understanding of SAPS is non existent, contrary to your erroneous view that SAPS have not been successfuly implemented in africa i would say that the reverse is the case - african leaders have been very successful in implementing them and this is why the average african lives on less than a dollar a day, suffers devalued currency, experieinces high levels of unemployment, poor or non existent health care, education and other social services, these are all indicators of cuts in govt spending - try and pay attention.

now thats a real debate!. keep up your dissemination of information. I am learning so much more of what I already knew!. DOOMSDAY PROPHETS!

Dont you mean you are learning so much of what you would never have been able to work out if i hadnt educated you? Keep displaying your infinite ignorance!!

DeeJay20:
The way people reason on the forum makes me wonder whether they
still have any productive analyses cells in their brian,

CAP28 has dropped some valid point and all some people
can do is give *Lame" counter arguements,

Countries that have received IMF/World Banks Loans which one of them has done well in reviving their Economies apart from Britian, France, Germany & Japan after the Second World War?

Its quite tragic to see how some of our people who claim to be knowledgeable end up making themselves look s.tupid with ridiculous arguments in a bid to defend the indefensible.

last year Greece was told that its national deficit stood at 13% of its GDP and it was told that it would have to implement IMF austerity measures in order to reduce this debt. This meant that the Greeks would have to cut public expenditure, increase taxes, extend the retirement age, and slash jobs - this is how the greek people reacted to this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHeeA-4o8kE

Now if the Greeks who are a european nation with a much higher standard of living than Ivory Coast can see the long term dire consequences of implementing such draconian austerity measures what hope can there be for a country like Ivory Coast where 60% of the population already live below the poverty line and life expectancy is a mere 56 years old?

Bro as you correctly stated no developing country which has implemented IMF structural adjustment programmes has ever emerged from the status of an economic basket case.

morpheus24:
@cap28

I conceed I am a brainwahsed puppet by the imperalist leaning of the western economic standards. I am simply regurgitating every single thing I have learnt form them. i can't apply simple analyssi to a sitution when presentedn.

I now realize the West is evil and we need to wipe them out from the face of this earth and create a new revolution of black  African empowerment and free our people from these imperialists


Long live the struggle. Long live Africa. We shall be FREE some day as soon as we figure out how to get these cockoraoches of our backs. They have stolen from our continent, destoryed our way of life, imposed their western cultures on us, persuaded us to degrade our cultures for the adoptino of theirs, destroyed our climate, turned us against each other by dangling carrots infront of us and emphasized our differnces

Controlled our economics by pouring aid and loans into our governments, used mind controlling systems on our leaders, their ultimate goal is to see us wipe each other out while they ferry away all our resources for their survival.

Count me in Cap28. When the revolution starts I will be ready to join you.

STUPIDITY, CONSPIRACY THEROIESTS AND PROPANGAist HAVE MENTAL DISORDERS.  Where are your facts. Please keep your rederick to illiterate fools who might be mesmerized by your ability to retain  irrelevant information. To insinuate that taking a side in an arguement is fosterd by western media propaganda is an insult on my inteligence and I awill not indulge in sentimental b.u.l.l.Poo. Good luck on your hollow stance

hahaha now i understand how you operate, when you realise that you have the lost the debate and you can no longer continue along your ridiculous line of reasoning you resort to name calling like a little boy having a temper tantrum - you are a joke.

All throughout this debate i have provided you with facts - historical facts in order for you to understand what led up to this current crisis - you dismissed them as history 101

then i provided you with an analysis of the impact that SAP policies have had on Ivory Coast's economy during Gbagbo's tenure and the reasoning behind France's decision to endorse Outtara instead of Gbagbo - i even used the example of Okonjo Iweala who was also used in a similar way to negotiate nigeria's debt relief package  - you dismissed those as conspiracy theories - despite the fact that i even provided a link to a reputable web site which has an impeccable track record of reporting unbiased news.

The problem with people like you is that you suffer from what nigerians call "over sabi" you think you know it all but you actually know absolutely nothing, you walk around enveloped in a fog of ignorance thinking that you have all the answers, when people challenge your limited "knowledge" your fragile ego fragments into a million pieces and then you become abusive and resort to name calling - you are pathetic.

You can resort to sarcasm all you want but you will be laughing on the other side of your face very soon, the noose is getting tighter and tighter around the necks of african people as our leaders continue to sell off our natural resources to the international financial institutions and multinationals all in the name of "debt relief", this is happening even in our own country nigeria as we speak but you are too blind to see or understand it.

Here is another excerpt from an article written by a western observer about the crisis in IV, perhaps just another conspiracy theory eh?

[b]The present situation in Ivory Coast is the result of recent US policy and the long history of colonial domination of this region. The deep social divisions which the French fostered between different ethnic and religious groups, and between wealthy acculturated Africans and the mass of the population, who were denied political rights and subjected to forced labour until 1945, have found repeated expression in current political conflicts. Those conflicts have been exacerbated by the economic dependence of the region.

Ultimately, the economic backwardness of the region can be traced to centuries of slave trading, which led to the deportation of millions of Africans across the Atlantic. Following the slave trade came direct European domination of West Africa and the destruction of local political formations by competing English, French and German empire builders. For more than half a century, West Africa was under colonial rule and used as a source of raw materials such as palm oil, groundnuts, coffee and cocoa.[/b]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22640

tensor777:
Well I don't see a problem in that. It is only natural to date and consider relationships with people that look like you and share the same culture and interests.
They are simply interested in long-term relationships as opposed to one-night stands.
How many old inter racial couples do you see on the streets anyway?

You are right, most people will naturally gravitate towards people who look like them and share cultural similiarites and interests however the survey also demonstrated that white men received the most replies from WOMEN OF ALL RACES, therefore the question to ask is why is it that white men are considered to be good partner/marriage material over men of other races and in particular over black men by WOMEN OF ALL RACES?

To be honest i dont see that many elderly inter racial couples on the street but there could be a number of reasons for that namely that interracial dating and marriage has only recently become acceptable in western society, i know that here in the UK interracial marriage was severely frowned upon right up until the late 80s (despite the passing of anti discrimination legislation in the 60s) and in america bans on interracial marriage were still practised in some states (virginia) right up until 1967.

morpheus24:
Quattara is more politically and academically qualifed with past government expericence in tryng to tackle the issues that presented and still plague the Ivory coast. During his time in government the concentration was not on the consolidation of power under ethnic lines but on the resolution of economic woes whether you deem that as pupperting or not. The man earned a decent leving pre his appointments as Finace minsiter and Prime minister of the country only to be by past based on ethnic grievances.

Outtara as prime minister under Boigny did not distinguish himself in office, he may have the academic qualifications but that does not mean that he is the best person for the job, his loyalties do not lie with the Ivory Coast people and he has been co-opted into beleiving that neo liberal economic policies are the best way forward for ivory coast, these same neo liberal policies have brought nothing but poverty, mass unemployment and misery for the vast population of that country.

here is Outtara's profile:

Outtara is a former deputy managing director of the International Monetary Fund and studied economics in the US. His identification with the freemarket policies of the IMF makes him the ideal candidate for Western interests. Under an IMF structural adjustment programme Ivory Coast has privatised utilities and cut welfare subsidies. Telecommunications, transport, electricity and water supplies have all been privatised. By the beginning of 2009 it was estimated that more than half the population lived on less than a euro, or just over a dollar, a day. In the countryside some 60 percent of the population are classified as poor. This represents a rapid increase since the imposition of the IMF measures. Life expectancy is only 56 years.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/ivor-d13.shtml

during Outtara's tenure in office as prime minister,  ethnic rivalry was not an issue because Boigny cunningly used patronage and bribes to keep rival ethnic groups off his back, in other words the main ethnic groups were not a problem in the country at the time because as they say in nigeria they were all getting their own share of the national cake.  Fast forward to the noughties and it is a different ball game, the vast revenues that were available to the politicians to pay off troublesome oppostion/ethnic groups  are no longer available due to the collapse in cocoa prices, now the only tool available to politicians is to stoke the fires of ethnic rivalry - that is what is happening now and that is what Gbagbo is using, but  Outtara is also playing the same ethnicity card by rallying his own northern muslim supporters and pitting them against Gbagbo and his supporters. 

Is Okonjo Iweala a colonialist puppet simply because she has ties to the World bank and the IMF post her appointment into government and has presened suggestion based on hework expericne with them to bring change within Nigeria

In a previous post i stated that Okonjo Iweala IS an imperialist puppet, i noted that the west tend to use nationals of targeted nations who operate as insiders and collaborators, these insiders remain loyal to their employers and not to their nations of origin, they are are then given prominent roles within the targeted nations govt where they are tasked with turning over the wealth of the targeted nation to their employers - In Mrs OI's case she was in charge of negotiating and implementing a debt relief package which resulted in nigeria paying a staggering alleged debt of $12 billion to the international financial institutions, despite nigeria paying this gargantuan sum we are still in debt to these same institutions, at the time that these negotiatons were underway the average nigerian had no idea how nigeria came to incurr such a humungous debt and how the west were able to arrive at this sum.

Gbagbo's socialist stance is irrelevant in a new era where the state does not need to consolidate the factors of production to facilitate and equal distribution of resources or wealth, build the institutions an the atmosphere condusive to facilitate the process

Actually Gbagbo's stance is far from socialist as he agreed to implement many economic reforms which are diametrically opposed to socialism, infact he received a thumbs up from the international financial institutions who commended him on implementing the draconian SAP policies in accordance with instructions from the IMF.  I am therefore at a loss as to why the french turned against him, i can only conclude that there are other hidden issues surrounding Gbagbo that are making the french uncomfortable.

I do not need to be brainwahsed to use cognitive abilities to critically analyze complex systems that are being practiced round the world in realizing who is better torun a country. The Whie mans is not a consequence of that . The evidence is

There is nothing that you have written here that indicates that you have applied critical analyis to the crisis in IV, you have merely regurgitated a one sided argument fed to you by western controlled media outlets who have a vested interest in presenting a one sided view of what is actually going on in Ivory Coast - that to me is a clear cut case of brainwashing.

buzugee:
where you been hidin at chief ? whats good ?

yo my man - how you doing? ive just been kicking back and reading all of your comments, sometimes i just prefer to flit in and out, you get me (as the black brits say).

morpheus24:
I used to be in the history 101 business a couple of years ago, but came to realize it has nothing to do with critical thinking in terms of presenting tangible suggestons and providing resolutions to solving the underlying problems prevalent in African natiaons. A simple academic regurgitattino of what one can easily wiki or pic up a book to understand

Okay fine, can you please provide me with your own tangible suggestions and resolutions to resolving this crisis.

can you also tell me how and why Ouattara is a better candidate for the job as opposed to Gbagbo? Im really interested in knowing what it is that Ouattara will do differently - thanks

Becomrichn:
This is with marriage falls into the same issue, there is something wrong with living in the west for black people. It hard to say it, and everybody is running away from saying it. But the truth most be said. The system does not treat them fairly. One face of obama , another of oprah is not a true reflection of what black people face out here. This faces are just for television camera to see compare to the pain black people face in the west.

100% spot on - nigerians in nigeria who watch mtv, bet and cnn think that this is the true face of the western world - its just a fantasy world that the west presents to keep foreigners hung up on the lie that the western world is the land where your dreams can come true - its all bullsh,it.

When someone look at you and call monkey to your face in this day and time. It tell you what is in thier heart toward employment and others.

thank you very much bros - but our people do not like to hear the truth - they will instead defend these type of behaviour and tell you that we are the problem.

The issue why people going home , please just go on all dating website, 100% of the india women have turn thier setting option on to " NO black man should send them messages" ,same goes for the chinesse, the samething goes for some white women. You just have very few white women open to the fact of  interracial dating. You cant be talking about you want to marry someone from a society that have thier setting option as" No Black should send me message".
This is one of the reason. People are allowed to block who send them messages.
If you look at this. Now imagine if this same people are going to be your employers. Do you think, you are going to get a job.? NO.

I agree  - infact they did a survey on how race determines how many responses you get on dating websites - the overwhelming conclusion was that black men were the least likely men to be responded to by white, asian and hispanic women, black women were said to be the most likely race to respond to black men's ads.  I dont know how reliable this survey is but i suppose it could be used as a starting point.

http://abagond./2009/10/13/okcupid-and-race-and-dating/

Now let look at if the problem is with the black man or with the system.

Now in the case of nigerian men, who the west as classified as irresponsible. 90% of them are success story in Nigeria. Nigeria has about 20 billionaires about 14 of them were classified by the west as irresponsible , reject.no good, , backside hole, .  They could not get a job in the west, even when they wanted to start a business, they either was hunted down by police who were working for rival or phone tap to make them fail, so that they could send them to prison, like the rest black men. or call you terrorist.

Again spot on - when i tell people that there is a deliberate agenda by the west to keep blacks down people say im crazy.  Even though african americans make up only 13% of the population they are over represented in the prison system and this is despite the fact that white americans are more in number and statistically commit more crimes than blacks!

Let look at them , his name his mike adenuga , he is richer that I am proud to boost than any black man, i repent than any black man AMERICA have ever produced die or alive. Can i repent this words again, than any black man america have ever produced die or alive.  nigeria has 10 times rich black men than america.

Jimoh Ibrahim, he own several plane and hotel chain, including gas stations.

Jim Ovia, he own one of africa largest banks in several african countries.  
This people and many more were classified as irresponsible , reject.no good, , backside hole. They are success story , we all see, it tell you, there is nothing wrong with black people. But the truth is , there is something wrong with the system in the west the way, people treat black people. And this is why black family marriages fail.

The pressures of institutionalised racism conspire to fragment and destroy black families and communities in the western world.
In addition the system has been set up to ensure that the opportunities open to whites remain almost beyond the reach of blacks, im not saying you can not succeed, im saying that as a black person you will have to put in 10 times the effort a white person puts in - this can place even the best relationships under severe strain - if a husband is finding it hard to get a job because of institutionalised racism and the wife is the sole  breadwinner this inevitably is going to lead to problems within the household - we have to accept the damage that institutionalised racism has caused to the black family unit in the western world.

You can imagine Uche Okafor killing himself , just because he live here. You need to know this person call Uche Okafor. Nobody would believe he could do that, we are talking of someone who already made million in dollars. And he came over here,  most likely he treated like trash  or half human by everybody just because he was black. He most likely could not take the harassment anymore and took his own life.

Yes, I can beleive it - black men here in the UK are stereotyped as being violent and dangerous, have higher rates of compulsory admission to psychiatric hospitals, are more likely to be treated with drugs rather than counselling and in addition british born black men are more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia than whites.

look i once remember going with a nigerian at the immigration entrance , i was shock to see him pull down his underwear even before the immigration officer ask him for a check and he ask the officer to check his anus to see, if he had drugs inside. because he has so much face so much harassement.

And that why most people that write about nigeria issue are nigerian abroad. And they are ready to pay anything, to stop the nonsense going on in nigeria.

You got that right - those of us who have lived in the belly of the beast all these years know where the shoe pinches.  We really dont want to be here and wish we could do something to bring the madness that is going on back home to a stop.

The issue is not with black people, but the issue is how to change the altitude of people over here to like black people.

It will never happen because the whites have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are namely - financial advantage in terms of housing, jobs and education.

look, if you doubt me. Go to any dating website and pretend you are a black man and see if you would get a response from 10,000 women who are not black, you would be lucky to get 10 reply, and now imagine if those people are  going to employ you.

I have come to the conclusion that a successful, educated white woman or other non black woman is more likely to marry a man of her own race, if at all she opts for a black man it is usually because he is finanncially successful or because her options with men of her own race have been greatly reduced for whatever reason.

And that is the altitude that need to change in the west.  until this mind set change, it is hard to make progress in the west.

The truth is the new nigeria women dont know this is the society that have come into they assume it is still like nigeria, it is different.

with time it all becomes clear to all nigerians living in the west -  men  and women - the lesson to learn from all of this is that we (black men and women) should stop fighting each other and learn to be there for each other as we are fighting an enemy  that is greater than we ever imagined.

morpheus24:
Exactly my point. All this history lessons by cap28 don't really do anyting for me. Is Africa the only continent that had colonial masters. How did the others seem to figure out their issues. Please

Stop blaming the colonialist and start pointing the finger at the people who are in positions of responsibility

i think you are very confused! on the one hand you accuse me of not coming up with solutions but in the same breath you say that you are not interested in hearing about what led up to the current economic crisis in Ivory Coast, dismissing it as "history 101" !, tell me how you can resolve a problem without knowing the root causes of that problem?

Its obvious that you are suffering from a very severe case of brainwashing as you have accepted without question the white man's revised version of africa's history. It is acknowledged even by white historians that former colonial govts are solely responsible for the current political and economic turmoil that africa is currently in the grip of. The fact that you are totally ignorant of this basic fact demonstrates to me that i would do better to converse with a brick wall as i would get a much more reasoned response and feedback.

A popular quote states that those who are ignorant of their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes, good luck navigating your way through your self imposed fog of ignorance.

morpheus24:
What damage are you speaking of. Please elaborate. For a historical buff wonder why its seems to have crossed your mind that fact the Ivory coast experienced the most succesful economic years under the rule of someont tied with the french so much so that people from neighbouring coutnries flocked in the Ivory coast and never left till this day compared to the era of a socialist who came into power on the guise of labour unionism and equitable distribution of income who has yet to implement one law that has brought any progress for his people. and please don't give me that he ahsn't has time and the french are squeezing his hands. We live in an era of acess to  information like no other time and are able to leverage this to create sustainalbe progression in each of our soceities by partnering with numerous countries in the world.

Ivory Coast's economy was booming up until the 80s however the only beneficiaries of it were the ivorian elite who made money from the cocoa and coffee industries and the french expatriates whose businesses benfitted from generous tax subsidies and weak regulatory mechanisms which assisted them in the transfer of their profits out of ivory coast and back to france, not the ivorien people.   Those migrants that you refer to were peasants fleeing the poverty of neighbouring countries like burkina faso, chad and niger to  work on coffee and cocoa plantations as cheap labour, migrant workers are continuously on the move looking for work, we have migrant workers from Chad in northern nigeria - does that mean that nigeria's economy is booming ? all it indicates is that poor workers will go just about anywhere in the hope that they can get work.

During these so called boom years Boigny virtually opened up the country to the french to run, they were involved at every level of governance, the boom soon turned to bust however by the 1980s when commodity prices collapsed,  leaving Ivory coast virtually insolvent, it was under Boigny that Ivory Coast's economy started its downward spiral, at this point  france who were responsible for the economic mismanagement decided to throw Boigny to the IMF wolves who recommended that Ivory Coast take on enormous loans with crippling interest repayments.  In addition Ivory Coast was told to restructure its economy in line with SAP resulting in huge public exependiture cuts, currency devaluation and the transfer of Ivory Coasts public sector industries to foreign investors  via privatisation  - end result mass unemployment and  increased poverty and misery for the masses.

IN other words Boigny and his french cohorts who were responsible for mismanaging the Ivorien economy throughout the 60s through to the 80s  decided that the best way out of it was to implement harsh structural adjustment economic policies on the people of Ivory Coast, does that sound like a success story to you?

This is where Gbagbo came into the picture - his trade union background enabled him to empathise with the majority of the ivorien workers  who had been victimised and exploited by Boigny and the french, he promised the people a way out of the mess  - the french however had other ideas and insisted that he continue with the SAP programmes, therefore contrary to your erroneous view that Gbagbo has failed to deliver the real fact is that Gbagbo inherited an economy which had already been bankrupted by Boigny and the French.

I  have youjust haven't been paying attention. Remove the ivorite tribalist socialist and put in the economist who was dielined bcuase of his ethnic background despite his proven ability to work within the governmetn and produce economic results

the seeds of the ivoirite tribalism that you mention were sown by the french who decided to arm a rebel movement in the mainly muslim north in order to overthrow Gbagbo when they decided that he was no longer needed.
Outtara has nothing to offer the Ivoriens as he is an IMF agent with instructions to push through the remaining SAP programmes that Gbagbo did not implement, causing even more hardship, poverty and suffering for the people of Ivory coast.

morpheus24:
History leson101. Tell us somethng we already can't figure out. Like what best to do to resolve the conflict instead of projecig your innate hatred for former colonail masters. Thats obviousl not going to solve the prolbem.


Nigerians all talk no strategy

for someone who has it all figured out you seem staggeringly ignorant of the damage that a french imperailst puppet poses to the well being of the Ivory Coast economy and its people.

So voting in a french imperialist puppet is the best solution to the current crisis in Ivory Coast?

I do not recall at any point during this discussion where you have come up with any thing closely resembling a strategy let alone a resolution - perhaps you would do well to remove the giant log in your eyes before you point out the speck in someone else's!