₦airaland Forum

gymer:
@ Poster:
Whether you like it or not She is Nigerian's first lady and not that she is going to be. There is nothing anybody in this forum can do about it. This is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our sight. Out of the millions of Nigerian women who can speak English even better than the queen of England, God in His infinite wisdom decided to make her our first lady. I thank God for her life. She is like a mother to Nigerians. That she cannot read, write or speak good English does not make a her less a person to occupy that post. Let us always remember that

You and your ilk are the reason nigeria is a laughing stock before the entire world, your failure to hold your public officials to account has condemned you to being ruled by these bunch of illiterate kleptocrats. 

Do you not understand that as first lady her duty is to project a positive image of nigerians abroad, does it make sense for a woman who can not read or speak her country's official language properly to keep appearing in public making a fool of herself and her nation in the name of public speaking ?

I can see you are one of those brainwashed religious fanatics who can't think straight without mentioning God in every sentence, if you had any common sense you would ask yourself whether God ordained that you should be living under one of the most oppressive and brutal kleptocratic regimes in the world.  Did God say you should also be living on $1 a day? 
Give me a break.

Beaf:
From king of conspiracy theories to rumour monger! Na wa o!
I sitting here really laughing!

E be like say you loff di woman wella! But you have no way to express it, hence the winsh behaviour, lies and bad bele toward another mans wife.
Take heart enh! And keep chasing unmarried women only, it leads to less dissapointment.

You see your life! look at the type of people you support, known adulterers, thiefs and illiterates, these are the type of people you bow down to, in a civilised society Jonathan and his wife would have been relegated to the bottom rung of the socio economic ladder because they are the dregs of society, but will your confused sycophantic brain see it ? hell no, my advice to you is this - take your head out from in between GEJ's butt cheeks for just one second and do something you're not used to doing - think logically - then gradually the truth will start seeping into your skull.

Orikinla:
The truth is Madam Patience Goodluck Jonathan has problems with reading and speaking and everyone who knows the family has been aware of this fact and was even a common joke on and off campus at the University of Port Harcourt where the husband dated a young student who got pregnant for him. Don't blame Madam Patience Goodluck Jonathan, but her husband who has failed to upgrade his wife whose mother is from clan.

What!!!!

You mean the bolded sentence is common knowledge?

That explains why she's been stealing money like there's no tomorrow - she's probably feathering her nest in anticipation of being replaced by a younger woman.

Mariory:
Stop being moronic please. I really don't know why some of you reason the way you do.  So you have gone ahead and posted an article written by the government of Zimbabwe (The Herald: http://www.herald.co.zw/index.php). Then you turn around and tell me I am posting Western porpaganda.

The source i cited was written by stephen gowans who is  an independent foreign journalist from Canada not zimbabwe, the article was subsequently cited in a zimbabwean newspaper, here is another excerpt from another article written by him on another independent news source, he is a white canadian and has no vested interests in defending mugabe, here is his analysis:


Zimbabwe’s economy, like that of any other Third World country, was never robust to begin with, and inasmuch as it has always relied heavily on Western inputs and access to Western exports, was never too difficult to push into crisis by Western governments intent on making a point. To pretend Washington, London and Brussels haven’t sought to sabotage Zimbabwe’s economy, or are incapable of it, is absurd. ZDERA effectively reduces Zimbabwe’s access to the foreign exchange it needs to import necessities from abroad, including chemicals to treat drinking water, a significant point in the recent cholera outbreak. Development aid from the World Bank is also cut off, denying the country access to funds to build and repair the infrastructure needed to run a modern economy. Rather than banning the export of goods to Zimbabwe (the popular understanding of sanctions), the US has made importing goods a challenge. This doesn’t mean that Zimbabwe can’t import goods, or that there is no outside investment. What it does mean, however, is that Zimbabwe is denied access to the kind of financial support poor countries depend on to get by. The intended effect is to make Zimbabwe’s economy scream, and it has.

Second of all, the article was discussing the Zimbabwe economy. In typical clueless style you are blinded by your anti-west ideology that you have ignored the fact that I was discussing starvation (Lack of food) of Zimbabweans not Americans or Europeans. A direct result of there being a distinct lack of harvested crops which have absolutely nothing to do with obtaining credit from international lenders. Do you reliase that before Mugabe lost the plot, Zimbabwe was able to feed itself? Now it relies on food donation and it has to import maize when it used to be a net exporter. This has nothing to do with the sanctions in question. I mean seriously, what is wrong with you?

This is why i asked you in my previous post whether you start in the middle or at the beginning when trying to trace the genesis of a problem.  You obviously prefer to start in the middle rather than the beginning.

Did Zimbabwe's problems with starvation just occur out of the blue?  How can you start analysing Zimbabwe's problems from the year 2000 after implementation of sanctions by the west?  Did Zimbabwe not exist prior to this period?  Like i said I can't take you seriously because your mind is so narrow, you are incapable of tracing the actual cause of this problem instead you keep parrotting what youve read in the western press.

Okay to answer your question about the issue of starvation - first of all Zimbabwe has historically suffered from droughts - this has adversely affected its agricultural outuput, in the past this problem was addressed by stockpiling maize which would then be used to tide the country over , this option is no longer available because much of this stockpiled maize was sold off in order to pay off outstanding debts owed to the IMF and world bank.

Prior to the imposition of sanctions Zimbabwe could have imported maize using its credit facilities -however these have since been frozen by western financial institutions.

Secondly Zimbabwe like many other african nations has been a victim of falling commodity prices - this means that it gets less for its exports compared to what it used to when prices were higher, this factor combined with the west's bllocking of its acces to  credit facilities has left it in a situation where it has less revenue available to import food. 

Thirdly many of the white farmers who were forced to give up their land decided to destroy their farming machinery rather than leave it behind, some who still had possession of their farms decided to stop producing crops to show their allegiance for the white imperialists.

Finally  zimbabwe was forced to to keep servicing the loans it borrowed from the IMF and world bank, it was forced to cut spending on public services and devalue its currency all these factors left the govt with very little revenue - the overall knock on effect eventually resulted in food shortages and now starvation of the masses. 

Like i said in order for an economy to run effecitvely it needs to have credit available to it, even advanced economies operate in this way and i see no reason why Zimbabwe's case shuld be any different
These monies are necessary  to pay for imports, even if you intend to rely on your own agricultural produce you still need to be able to pay labourers, maintain the infrastructure which will enable you to move produce to and from the farmland, buy agricultural equipment etc - how do you do this without access to credit?

Since you brought up sanctions and the economy, here is a question for you. What was the amount of trade between Zimbabwe and the EU during the sanctions?

I dont know if your aware of this but Zimbabwe is still subject to economic sanctions which i already highlighted in my previous post, I stated that Obama actually extended the sanctions imposed under Bush's administration which also affect trade between Zimbabwe and the EU, therefore since the EU is still adhering to the restrictions as laid out under ZDERA I am in no doubt that the  volume of trade between Zimbabwe and the EU  is almost non existent hence the ongoing hardship suffered by Zimbabweans.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11548

Mariory:
So sad and pathetic. This is what you and like minded individuals have been reduced to. The suffering of your fellow Africans is justified in order to satisfy an illogical view of "sticking it" to the "white man". I guess the white man was the one queing for bread. The white man was the one competing with animals for plant roots. The white man was the one eating ants. The white man was the one dying of starvation.

So sad and pathetic. Abacha also "stood up" to the "white man". Idi Amin also "stood up" to the "white man". Boko Haram (s/p) also "stands up" to the "white man". Charles Taylor also "stood up" to the white man. Even apertheid South Africa "stood up" to the "white man". The foolishness and idoicy with this way of reasoing is very obvious.

Soon our thieving leaders will start "standing up" to the "white man" and in so doing will become African heros right?

Sad and pathetic are adjectives i would prefer to use in describing your very biased and one sided argument, in determining the root cause of a problem do you start in the middle or at the beginning?

You have selectively picked out quotations from mainstream western newspapers that incidentally are owned by the same multinationals who have vested economic interests in africa as the basis for your argument and you expect people to take you seriously.

There are always two sides to a story but it seems in your case that basic principle does not apply as you prefer to limit your argument to the white man's version of events.

The one question that you should be asking your self is this: why is it that Zimbabwe's economic problems only started the minute Mugabe announced that he was going to commence an accelerated land reform programme and return acres of stolen land to its rightful owners?

Dont you find it strangely coincidental that the minute the land reform started the west began to impose economic sanctions?

You regurgigate all the propaganda about starvation and disease fed to you by the western press but you forgot to find out what the root cause of that starvation and disease is - have you even bothered to research the role that america played in bringing about the economic collapse of zimbabwe? Have you heard of a piece of legisltation enacted by the US congress known as ZIDERA ?  - do you understand the consequences of this legislation, do you understand that zimbabwe's access to credit was frozen? do you understand that zimbabwe was asked to pay off loans worth millions of dollars that it borrowed from the IMF  within 48 hours just to punish it and wipe out its foreign reserves? 
do you understand that all lines of international credit that zimbabwe applied for were vetoed and blocked using this legislation, do you understand that all balance of payments support from international lending institutions was blocked and vetoed by the EU, britain and america?

One of the major backers of this legislation was a right wing american senator by the name of Jesse Helms - he opposed the Civil rights Act of 1964 which gave black americans the right to vote, it was also co sponsored by Hillary Clinton (current secretary of state) and Joe Biden (current vice president)

In addition former US president George Bush Jnr banned US companies from doing business with all of zimbabwe's major corporations and froze the assets of Zimbabwean companies with branches in europe or the US.

When Obama took over he renwed all previous economic sanctions.

Dont you ask yourself why america and europe are taking such a draconian stand against Zimbabwe, they have crushed and clamped down on a country that sought to do what many south east asian economies were permitted to do ie becomes masters of their own political and economic destinies but instead of being given the leeway to develop as was the case with south korea, malyasia, singapore and japan they have instead faced economic isolation, intimidation and threats of military attack.

I would advise you to learn how to research issues using unbiased sources that way you will learn the truth but if you carry on down this your one sided route relying totally on western propaganda you will continue to spout these ignorant and confused diatribes on NL- a word is enough for the wise.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200907220470.html

gohome:
mind you, being literate doesn't make you a good PUBLIC speaker! pls rephrase

No i think ill stick to the original heading, its more accurate and describes her embarrasing and laborious attempt at reading to a tee.

Krayola:
I have not made a single comment about her intellect.  Just stating my opinion that this obsession with her grammar and reading style are petty.

Will you answer the question about the OP and your propaganda? 

Was she "UNABLE" to read the speech that she read? 

gohome:
[
correct, the guy is still beating around the bush, CAP28 DID SHE READ THE SPEECH OR NOT?

Perhaps i should i have rephrased it to read: Patience Jonathan unable to read own speech like a literate adult - would that have made both of you feel better?

Krayola:
Maybe b/c it's more about how well you think than how eloquently you speak. IMO true intellectuals care more about substance than flamboyance.

Politicians are known to be great speakers but a lot of the time are empty barrels. Na talk talk we wan chop?

So what are you trying to say - that despite Patience Jonathan's limited reading ability she might just be a closet intellectual!!! please don't make me laugh. By their actions you shall know them, her actions to date are not those of someone with substance or great intellectual depth.

gohome:
stop blabbin and address the issue. no two reading ability is the same we know, shes corrupt just like anyother leader we know, but didn't she read the speech?

i can see you have very low standards and absolutely no expectations of your first lady thats why you can even come out with statements like: "she's corrupt just like any other leader"

Yes she read the speech - the way a 4 year old would read a bed time story - i suppose that's good enough for you.

The idea that Patience Jonathan should not be criticised because she is "just an ordinary housewife" is about the most preposterous argument  i have ever heard in my life.

Do ordinary housewives steal millions from state treasuries and then get their relatives to help them launder the money abroad?

Do ordinary housewives go on extended spending sprees to Dubai to buy trinkets worth millions of dollars?

Do ordinary housewives climb up onto podiums promoting bogus organisations in the name of advocating on behalf of abused, disenfranchised women and neglected children?  

The thing i am still baffled about is the fact that some brainwashed individuals on this forum actually think this woman has anything postive to offer nigeria and its people after she and her husband have been involved in some of the most outrageous corruption scandals since their (undeserved and unwanted) entry onto the nigerian political scene.  

In a normal society the pair of them would have been indicted for corruption charges but of course in nigeria what you have are the usual bunch of sycophants coming out en masse to defend the indefensible.

A woman who brazenly steals from her own people the minute she gets her foot through the door of govt house and then has the nerve to turn around and expect to be idolised.

Wangari Mathai's name should not be mentioned in the same breath as Patience Jonathan, Wangari is a renowned intellectual who has campaigned tirelessly againt western exploitation of resources and environmental degradation  in africa, Patience Jonathan on the other hand is a woman who would not look out of place running a beer parlour joint in port harcourt, a woman who sees nigeria's resources as a fast track to easy riches.  Try having a conversation with Patience Jonathan about resource exploitation in africa and lets see how far you will get - what a joke!!!!
Wangari speaks and reads english intelligibly, and she also makes impromptu speeches, a task that "Dame" Patience would find virtually impossible to undertake.

Comparing Wangari Mathai's reading skills with Patience Jonathan's is like comparing Wole Soyinka's reading skills with Orji Uzo Kalu's - they are not in the same category.

fstranger1:
When did she place herself in the limelight? By contesting for the post of the First Lady?

Who knew? I for sure did not know she was voted in by the people of Nigeria for the post of GEJ's wife


Comparing like with like, hun? Princeton Educated Michelle versus what? You are very silly for comparing Michelle with Patience. Very silly comparison.

do you have difficulty comprehending basic english?

first ladies historically have the option to either play a backseat role or they can chose to  place themselves in the limelight and engage in publicity seeking activities.  Patience has decided to promote her women's initiative project which means that she has opted for the publicity seeking option.  She forgot however, that  in order to promote such a project you have to have basic literacy skills ie the ability to read english.   

Try and use your brain this one time - no we didnt vote her in as GEJ's wife but she CHOSE to embark on publicity seeking junkets in a bid to promote her women's iniative project as a result she is no longer accorded the privacy that a private individual would automatically be entitled to as she is now public property -try and keep up.

I used Michelle Obama as an example of the calibre of first ladies Mrs Jonathan will find herself rubbing shoulders with, i dont know about you but if i were in the midst of well spoken, well educated men/women who could conduct themselves with ease in public and i was struggling to read a pre written speech, the last thing i would do is keep parading myself all over the world  displaying my inadequacies.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=593399.msg7623033#msg7623033 date=1296241400]I'm sure you know exactly why I said it.  Tearing apart Mrs. Jonathan is a LOW BLOW. Same as focusing on Michelle's aesthetic flaws.  

Nothing to do with WASPy look, since I did not menton her skin color or any negroid features.  

Anyone of any race can have WONKY TEETH and a GIANT FOREHEAD.  

Do you see how unfair I think this criticism of Mrs. Jonathan is?

P.S.  Also, just as you think Mrs. Jonathan's reading and speaking skills can be repaired, so can Michelle's teeth.  Pray tell, are you gonna ask her why the hell she didn't get braces to repair her teeth all these years since Obama was a senator? And the American press and public do care a great deal about physical appearance. Trust me on that! They say things!!![/quote]Michelle does not have any aesthetic flaws - she is an attractive woman who comports herself with grace and poise. She is also confident and well spoken, i have no idea why you are trying to attack her.

First ladyies  have to have a certain air of gravitas about them hence their somewhat understated look, I see nothing wrong at all with Michelle's teeth, i think you might be getting a bit too carried away with all these beauty shows that brainwash black women into thinking that if they don't look a certain way there is something wrong with them.

Again - id like to reiterate my criticism of Patience centres solely around her poor reading ability and not her physical apperance - it is therefore justified, if i had come on here and made negative comments about Patience's physical features you would be justified in defending her but i have not.

The minimum requirement for a first lady who will be engaged in public speaking is the ability to read english fluently, it is not a minimum requirement for a first lady to have perfect teeth although it will obviously help improve her image and therefore improve the way she is perceived by her audience/electorate.

tensor777:
You say that although Michelle Obama is a highly experienced and successful legal practitioner. So it is not a fair comparison moreso as Michelle was born and bred in a monolingual culture.
How many Nigerian housewives speak the Queen's English outside formal settings?

How many nigerian housewives make public speeches and parade themselves in front of tv cameras talking about women's issues?

Please compare like with like.  Michelle Obama is a first lady and the american electorate have certain expectations of a woman in such a position - like being able to speak and read english coherently, this is the same way we expect that Patience - the wife of nigeria's president should also be able to speak and read english coherently

She has placed herself in the limelight and on to the world stage, in doing so she has given up all rights to her privacy.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=593399.msg7622890#msg7622890 date=1296239714]I tried to listen but I was too distracted by her WONKY TEETH.  Oh, yeah, and the glare from her GIANT FOREHEAD!!!

You see what I did there?  It's a low blow.  Same as tearing apart some middle-age housewife, who happens to be married to a politician, for not sounding like a. . .  I don't even know wth!

And Michelle ain't all that.  Dig beneath the surface.

Hi, Cap!  [/quote]Hows it going?

No what you did there was get personal and make a below the belt quip which has no bearing on Michelle's  abilities as first lady.  My criticism of Patience Jonathan has nothing to do with her personal appearance and everything to do with her inability to read basic english.  

Can you imagine for one minute what the american press would do to Michelle Obama if she read a speech using ebonics - can you imagine the way the whole of white america would descend on her.

Im actually quite suprised that you actually took such a personal shot at Michelle's appearance - i thought as a black woman you would know better than that, surely thats the domain of bit.chy WASPs?

hmm!!

fstranger1:
And, while you are at it, could you be so kind as to post a link where she delivered a speech, any speech at all, in a foreign language?


How many languages does she speak again?

I thought we'd been over this before - English is nigeria's official language -there is no excuse for Patience Jonathan not knowing how to read fluently in her own nation's official language.

Michelle Obama does not need to speak any other language other than english as that is her nation's language, if she so desire's she can learn how to become fluent in spanish, french, italian or even igbo but these are optional requirements not necessities, it is necessary,  on the other hand for Patience Jonathan to be able to communicate and read english fluently in order for her to get her message across to nigeria's multi ethnic populace.

this is how respected first ladies sound - refined, confident and intelligible:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=790hG6qBPx0

oyb:
i no fit laugh.

no wonder we are backward.

our first lady is a functional illiterate WITH SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO BETTER HERSELF

second lady bayelsa 1st lady bayelsa, 2nd lady nigeria, 1st lady, nigeria  and you are making empty excuses

our president has been blathering about reading culture in the youth, publishing books of facebook quotes.

perhaps someone should tell him that charity begins at home.  

exactly - a nation of people with zero standards and expectations of their public officials - no wonder their leaders treat them  with utter  contempt and disgust, hopeless sycophants.

Despite Patience Jonathan's obvious difficulty with reading and speaking english fluently she doesnt seem to have any problems when it comes to counting, im sure she didnt need any assistance when she was dipping her grubby paws into bayelsa state govt house's coffers.

Beaf:
The brilliant part of the story you told above, is that, we the emarrassments are contributing positively to the country in ways that your conspiracy addled brain cannot fathom.
I read somewhere that belief in conspiracy theories (like fear of the dark, fairies, your own shadow etc) is a sure sign of schizophrenia. You should check it out dude.

what is your definition of a positive contribution? money laundering by any chance?  cos as far as im aware that is the only "contribution" i am aware that "dame" Patience has made to the nigerian political scene to date.

Maybe you can tell us how Patience Jonathan is really an American White woman or something similarly crackpot, crazy and far out; that will be truly entertaining indeed and closer to the madmans tales we know you for. This weather-beaten attempt to be more British than the British is too weak.

Id rather tell you what is staring you in the face ie she is a semi illiterate crook who would not look out of place as a madam of a fresh fish pepper soup joint in a remote Ijaw village, perhaps someone could break it to her slowly that public speaking is not her forte, that way she can save herself and our nation this ongoing embarrassment.

If you aren't in love with Patience Jonathan, why not leave her alone? She is someone elses wife and you should respect that.

Dimwit how many times do i have to explain to you that she is occupying the office of a public official therefore she has now lost any immunity from scrutiny or criticism, she should have thought very carefully about the criticism she would receive the minute she climbed up onto that podium, picked up a microphone and made a fool of herself.

Beaf:
Thank you! You just killed it completely. Why are people so enslaved by the whitemans language? The strangest bit in the puzzle is, the cheerleader cap28 unceasingly rattles out crackpot conspiracy theories about how the US, the UK and the UN are teleguiding us, and how we are so enslaved to them. But it comes to his pet hate, GEJ and bang! He becomes the evangelist for mental slavery. Its a really scary irony!

Here comes GEJ sycophant extraordinaire with his upside down logic and inability to converse in a coherent manner without resorting to crude and immature abuse.

A man so desperate to champion the cause of an undeserving criminal couple that he is willing to turn a blind eye to Patience Jonathan's glaring semi illiterate state.

Do i need to justify my stance on international issues to you ?  Definitely not

Do i expect someone with your low reasoning ability and non existent understanding of international issues to understand where i along with  many informed individuals are coming from? - again - no

Not only is it apparent to most sane nigerians that Patience and Goodluck Jonathan are quite frankly an embarrassment to all Nigerians but it is also manifestly clear to anyone with an iota of intelligence that this couple's only agenda for the country is to carry on with their looting jamboree which they commenced during their tenure in Bayelsa State govt house.

Your desperation to derail this thread is now becoming quite boring and tired, why dont you go back to what you do best - kissing GEJs backside - if you keep it up long enough - he might just reward you by giving you a job as one of his drivers.

Krayola:
Will u please explain how reading in a "slow and hesitant manner" indicates a lack of understanding of what one is reading?

if you listen to very young children reading you will notice that they tend to read words individually as opposed to reading words in fluid sentences,  in doing this they are not able to fully convey the meaning of what they are reading across to their listeners - its okay for a pre school kid to read like this as they are still learning and developing their reading skills but it is inexcusable for an adult who also happens to be the first lady of the most populous black nation on earth to be reading like that in public.

IMO she was not unable to read. She read the speech and I understood it. Many other people did too. I think it is neither accurate nor fair to suggest she is unable to read.

She read it - but with great difficulty, its unacceptable for her to have been allowed to display this obvious handicap in a public forum.

SHe did not seem to me to have difficulty reading english. I noticed she had difficulty with some names that i think were unfamiliar, but I don't think that is a problem. Foreign names are often difficult to pronounce properly.

You are simply making excuses for something that is so glaringly obvious, would you feel proud to have her read a speech in this manner at an international forum in front of foreign dignataries?

I will never forget the amount of criticism that  Tony Blair's wife,  Cherie was subjected to by the british press - all this despite  the fact that she was a successful barrister and in line for promotion as a high court judge at the time, still her every movement was scrutinised right down to the most minute detail, now we have Michelle Obama - Harvard and Princeton educated lawyer also being mercilessly scrutinised and in some cases unfairly criticised and lampooned by the american press - these are women who can actually hold their own in public, now compare that to Mrs Jonathan who has quite frankly done nothing to merit the level of deference and respect that some nigerians are according her, a woman who can not even read a pre written speech and yet there are people coming on here making unnecessary excuses to defend all these public gaffes that she has been making, forgetting that she acts as a mirror of nigeria's image at home and abroad.

[quote author=Hi_Tek link=topic=593399.msg7621074#msg7621074 date=1296223281]@ Cap28,

Did you actually watch the speech on Youtube or are you going by what somebody told you? I have mentioned that the only place I saw her stumble was in trying to pronounce a South African name. Please point me to any other part of the speech where she stumbled.

The fact that she does not speak with a British accent does not mean she cannot read. Did you hear the following people speak when they were in power:

Murtala Mohammed
Shehu Shagari
Sani Abacha
Olusegun Obasanjo
Umaru Yar'adua

Did you raise similar complaints? If not, you should because they all had thick Northern or Southern Nigerian accents.[/quote]Mrs Jonathan stumbled all the way through the speech, she found it difficult to pronounce words like :"participate", "advocacy" and "women" she read in a painfully slow and hesitant manner indicating that she had no understanding of what she was reading.

Why have you diverted into talking about accents?

Right from the beginning my argument has beeen about her inability to read english not her accent.

The above mentioned people were able to read their speeches fluently - something that Mrs Jonathan seems to be incapable of doing - i dont understand why you are now throwing in the point about accent.

Also the fact that i live in the UK is neither here nor there, at the end of the day i am a nigerian and i believe that i have the right to be concerned about a woman who is supposed to be representing nigeria on the world stage.

Why can't you accept the fact that Mrs Jonathan has no business making speeches in public in a language which she has difficulty reading and speaking?

[quote author=Hi_Tek link=topic=593399.msg7620790#msg7620790 date=1296220652]It is  unfortunate that most people commenting on this topic did not bother to click and view the actual speech on Youtube. I did and find the poster's caption totally without merit. For the record, this is the poster's caption "Patience Jonathan Unable To Read Own Speech".

Well I watched the whole 5.07 minutes of the speech on Youtube and can confirm that Mrs Jonathan read the speech without difficulty. The only place she stumbled was in trying to pronounce the name of a South African member of parliament. I'm sure many on us will have difficulty pronouncing South African names.

It appears the poster has become used to seeing people speak with British accent. If he/she had complained about Mrs Jonathan's accent, then that will be another issue. But to state that she is unable to read her speech is totally false. The evidence is there for everybody to see. Just click on the Youtube link below. It is only 5 minutes long:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bOClsDc-s[/quote]The fact that Mrs Jonathan somehow managed to stutter and stumble through a speech written in basic english with great difficulty does not in my book equate to her being able to read a speech.  Perhaps if she were a 4 year old with rudimentary reading skills i would commend her but just in case you didnt quite notice, she is nigeria's first lady therefore the very least that is expected of her is to be able to  read a pre prepared speech in fluent english.    

Surely we as nigerians are entitled to expect a higher standard of reading from our first lady than that of a pre school child?

Again i ask - have we sunk so low in our expectations of our public officials that we are now prepared to excuse the embarrassing spectacle of a first lady unable to read english fluently?

ziyaun:
personally i also find it funny when our first lady makes all them blunders on national television,i wouldnt lie about that,it could be embarrassing, but on the other hand,if we read thru,lots of comments here judging her arent in good english either,well we would say they are mere typos.my point, to me this woman is doing a lot for women,children and as well running a great campaign for her husband,i really think thats a lot more important than speaking big grammar like patrick obahiagbon and do absolutely nothing for the people.as a first lady dame patience definitely has a good score.no be english wan change nigeria,only hard work will and she is hardworking.leave d woman make she speak anything she like jare

Patience Jonathan as Nigeria's first lady is a public official whose image is on display for the whole world to see - it is important that she projects nigeria in a positive light, NL posters on the other hand are not public officials neither do they engage in public speaking engagements on a regular basis like Patience does.

Have our standards fallen so low now that we dont think there is anything wrong with having a first lady who finds it difficult to read her own pre written speeches?

By the way what is she doing for women and children - the last i heard she was involved in the looting of Bayelsa state treasury to the tune of 100 million naira  is that your idea of "helping" women and children?

this doesnt tell us anything - the fact that the majority of african leaders are in their 70s does not tell us anything about the root causes of the underdevelopment in africa.

What if i were to turn round and tell you that those african leaders on that list that are in their 70s and 80s and who have been in power for so many years have done so with the co-operation, funding and support of the west.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=592125.msg7615704#msg7615704 date=1296153741]I certainly share your opinion of Mugabe and the problems he's faced and worked against.  Hey, we agree again.  It's been a while.[/quote]glad to hear it girl -how are ya?  

i take my hat off to the man for fighting their evil machinations.

Here is what a renowned nigerian historian - Chinweizu Ibekwe had to say about whether africans have been able to release themselves from the grip of white domination:


[b] Is Black Africa liberated?

The short answer is no! Let me explain by commenting on some key aspects of our far-from-liberated situation of today.

We are not politically liberated: we belong to their "Commonwealths," their "Communities," and especially to their UN which was set up, and still operates, as a syndicate of imperialisms led by the USA. Our national budgets are heavily subsidized by western donors, thus giving them the controls to dictate our policies. Our NGOs and CSOs are also funded by the imperialist "donors", thus compromising their autonomy.

We are not socially independent: their NGOs have unfettered and unsupervised access to even the remotest villages in our rural areas.

We are not culturally or mentally independent: we are ruled by their ideologies and religions; their music, ideas and images dominate our airwaves and our minds. Their cultural missionaries, and the evangelists of their religions are everywhere--on TV, on radio, in schools, in village meetings--instilling in our minds the subversive and anti-African idea that anything African is inherently inferior, degraded and evil. Their books, their movies, their newspapers and media shape our values and desires; our parrots echo their fads and denounce patriarchy, homophobia, circumcision, etc; our languages, our architecture, our literature, are becoming more and more Europeanized; our governance institutions and norms imitate the European models; our discourse is saturated with Neo-Liberal concepts, prescriptions and jargon like transparency, public private partnership, global best practices, training in entrepreneurship, NGO, CSO, Freedom of Information, stakeholders, human rights defenders (i.e. missionaries), HIPCs, MDGs, and poverty alleviation; yet we lie to ourselves and say we have become free from Europe. But are you free from the person who thinks for you and controls your mind and aspirations? Like Dessalines mockingly pointed out to the Haitians in 1804: "our laws, our customs, our cities, everything bears the characteristics of the French –and you believe yourselves free and independent of that Republic!"[/b]

http://globalbreakingnews.com/news/1819/101/For-a-people-to-be-truly-liberated-they-must-be-independent-they-must-be-powerful-and-powerful-enough-to-deter-or-defeat-any-attempts-by-anyone-whatsoever-to-impose-on-them-in-any-way

archive:
i assume you have done your research on how well, or otherwise native Zimbabweans were living before the whites took over? and again how they have been living since the whites left. also, you seem to ignore the fact that he killed thousands of BLACKS over decades. it's like the muslim extremists yelling about the evil westerner when they kill their fellow muslims in droves. reta rded.

what point are you making here? that Zimbabweans were better off under white minority rule?  what does it matter how black zimbabweans lived before the arrival of whites as compared to how they live now, it is their land how they choose to live on their own land is their business not yours nor any white supremacist's.

Where are you getting your facts from that state that Mugabe killed thousands of blacks? it seems that if there is anyone who is retarded here it is you - how many blacks were tortured, murdered and imprisoned under Iain Smith's racist minority rule - or is that not important to you?

also, you get me wrong. i am not saying that an African leader finally getting rid of the shackles of imperialism is a bad thing. i just cannot applaud mugabe because of WHO he is. i look at the broader picture. we are not talking about just any leader who got rid of apartheid and white oppression (by the way he didn't actually get rid of wht oppression after all, did he?) in his country. I am talking about MUGABE. to say 'no leader is perfect' when we're talking about such an evil entity is just ridiculous and makes you seem jaded. please watch any documentary about his rule and pay particular images to scenes of massacre and see if it doesn't appeal to your human side - but then you may say that that is all white man propaganda.

Why dont you reserve your hypocritical  anger and outrage for Tony Blair and George W Bush who most sane people would categorise as evil and not an easy target like Mugabe.  Has Mugabe killed more people than Blair and Bush?  Was it Mugabe who invaded a sovereign nation in order to steal trillions of dollars worth of oil reserves, is it Mugabe who approved the dropping of white phosphorous on innocent men women and children in Iraq, was it Mugabe who imposed terrible economic sanctions against Iraqi civilians leading to the deaths of over 250, 000 children from disease and malnutrition - get your hypocrisy into perspective and stop making a mountain out of molehill.
Bush and Blair are the biggest war criminals of the 21st century and you are here crying over a man who had the courage to face down an international community run by genocidal criminals.
I think you need to get a grip.

I have read the contents of ZIDERA. Yes, the western powers have fought a dirty came since the beginning, and of course they are not going to want to relinquish control and sovereignty. but we must learn to play the game, and if so fight dirty against the RIGHT PEOPLE.

And the right people are who exactly? I dont think you understand what you are talking about -on the one hand you criticise Mugabe for standing up now you turn around and say he should fight the right people - pray tell who are these mysterious right people?

i don't know much about the politics of countries outside of Nigeria, but in Nigeria we cause so many problems for OURSELVES. when we can get our mindset right, then we can start to figure out how to fight against the system that was set up by and for the west. africa is a large continent - we should be in a position to lend help to fellow african countries, thus easing the reliance on western financial organisations. you can't complain about their presence in african countries and then at the same time whine about how they won't lend financial help to us. it's give and take. we need to be in a position where we can call the shots and have THEM relying on US. for example, any moves that china makes now can have dramatic effects on the WORLD economy - and this was through their genius. how many african countries can say that?

But you obvisoulsy havent got your own mindset right thats why you are so quick to condemn a man who has refused to be bullied, intimidated and bamboozled by selfish racist imperialist powers.

What are your suggestions for fighting western imperialism - id like to hear them. Do you even understand how international financial organisations operate? its not enough to say we wont borrow from them, in some cases borrowing becomes inevitable if the price of your export commodities fall, not every country can rely on the money they make from their exports, we live in a global economy in which nations are interdependent, we can't just cut ourselves off from the rest of the world and expect to grow our economies.  How many western nations do you know that operate in isolation? Do you think organisations such as the EU, NATO, IMF, WTO, NAFTA were founded for the fun of it? Do you not understand that they work as economic trade blocs with the objective of furthering their collective economic and military interests?

You keep crowing on and on about China and its economic power with regard to america, dont forget that america is China's major export market - China is actually trapped in a trade relationship with america - they both need each other and also if not for america's huge defence budget it would not be in the type of dire straits its in now,m so get things into perspective and stop crowing about China's magical economic ingenuity, China is in the positon its in today partly  because america borrows so much money from it to fund its gigantic military.

bottom line is, if we;re smart enough we can get out of many of the strongholds we are in. what has asia got that africa hasn't? i'll tell you - they had certain things from way back in history that africa didn't. japan was very advanced for a long time. of course not in the way it is now, but it could hold its own around the time of the industrial revolution. why do you think they were able to launch an attack in WW2? let me tell you, african countries were on the whole illiterate when the europeans arrived. that's a key marker of a sheer lack of development. south america, india, china , japan, arabia etc had their own writing systems. where were ours? adn pls dont mention the egyptians.

I dont know how you can compare africa  that had to deal with slavery, colonialism and now neo colonialism with Japan and many other asian nations that had less burdens to contend with.  If you want to make a comparison - compare like for like - dont come and talk about  Asian nations that were not subjected to depletion of manpower through the transatlantic slave trade, annexation of land by way of the scamble for africa and subsequent military invasion and occupation by way of colonialism and then ask me why we are not as developed as asian nations.  

You keep making these vacuous statements about being smart - its not enough to just be smart, if you are smart but economically and militarily outnumbered by another group of nations what do you do?

The fact that you are totally ignorant of africa's historical acheivements and contributions to modern history speaks volumes about your knowledge and understanding of africa and its history,  hence your unbeleivable statement that african countries were "illiterate" until the coming of the white man - your ignorance is actually one of the reasons we remain in a backward state, are you saying that african ethnic groups could not read or write in their native languages, had no laws, no social structures, no governments no civilisation?

it was a completely different playing field. africa didn;t have a clue. one thing i do know is that as humans we are meant to learn from each other. and learn quick. do what other people have done before, but do it better. africa can't even seem to do this in the modern world. there's just a lack of enterprise and ambition.

you talk about 'overthrowing' like we are in another time. the world isn't like that anymore. you have to be smarter than that now. work with the powers that be while simultaneously building your own power up. the west will always play their game. even the 'china threat' is largely a construct of the western media to send the world on premature high alert of a country that is rapidly rising in economic power, but in reality still has a high population of poor citizens. they are scared because china has them by the neck. china has learnt to play the game. china knows what it is doing even though it is still very much a DEVELOPING country

we don't. end of

I dont think you have a clue, i think that your lack of knowledge of your own history has left you with so much inferiority complex that you have what is known as internalised racism or self hatred.

archive:
please check where i highlighted bold to see a more accurate definition of racism.

now, what baffled me is your ridiculous support of a treacherous autocrat - just because he got rid of that oh so evil force called 'the white man'. you know what? at the end of the day they saw what was not being used to it's full potential (e.g africa) and took it. yes it was bad and unfair but so is life. yes, blacks are at the bottom of the rung worldwide but can you not see that that is our fault? not theirs. we lost the race. however, it's not too late. empires rise and fall and a lot of history is yet to be written. it could take 50 years tops for nigeria to become a superpower itself. yes. that is not such an outrageous claim. our population is rocketing and more importantly the band of working age (18-50) is rising. china's workforce age is actually shrinking. with this manpower, a good governnemt, a change in values, and hopefully neighbouring african countries that are also developing, nigeria could be unstoppable. who cares about wht south african women who think they're too good for black people? i care more about black govts that are allowing their own people to starve!! or mugabes who's brutally murder thousands!! which one do you think is more evil?

but this so called treacherous autocrat helped release Zimbabwe from the stranglehold of apartheid - would you have preferred for Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) as it was then known to have remained under white minority rule?

You dismiss Mugabe's victory over apartheid but i can assure you that if you had been dispossessed of your ancestral land and forced into a shanty town you would have been singing a different tune.

No leader is perfect, Mugabe did what he could given the dire circumstances he found himself in, yes the whites saw what they had and took it and that is the same way Mugabe fought back and cracked down on all opposition, collaborators and traitors  with an iron fist.  What was he supposed to do?  The EU, Britain and america resorted to all manner of dirty tricks in order to unseat him - was he supposed to sit back and fold his arms for fear of being called an autocrat?

You fight fire with fire, the west in a bid to destabilise the entire country imposed some of the most draconian trade embargoes against Mugabe's govt, the type of trade embargoes they never imposed on the likes of nigeria under babangida, abacha or obasanjo all because these people were willing to sell out their own people and now we are supposed to condemn Mugabe for protecting his country from a bunch of racist imperialists.
Perhaps you should take time to read the contents of ZIDERA a piece of legislation imposed on Zimbabwe by american congressmen designed to bring aboujt the collapse of Zimbabwe's economy then you will find out who is really responsible for the starvation, cholera and mayhem in that country. 
Your analysis is contradictory  - on the one hand you dismiss Mugabe's victory over a racist imperialist system but in the same breath you talk about nigeria rising to become a nation of superpower rank within 50 years.  Can you tell me how this is possible when nigeria is still being controlled politically and economically by international financial organisations such as the IMF and world bank and by international oil companies such as Shell?  Surely for Nigeria to acheive this status it too will need to overthrow the imperialist predators that have crippled nigeria's economy?

Have you ever seen any nation in this world emerge to become a world superpower whilst still being under the control  of its colonial masters?

China who you praise had to go to war several times, go through a violent and bloody revolution and go through a major cultural renaissance in order to become the nation it is today, Japan the same thing, but somehow you think Nigeria will be able to acheive this huge feat while still taking  orders from Washington and London.

Go and read about how an american general by the name of Macarthur wanted to nuke China off the face of the earth during the Korean war in order to cripple any chances of them ever rising to become a political and economic threat to america, today the american elite say that their failure to drop a nuclear bomb on china back in the 1950s was one of the greatest mistakes they ever made. You think the west are sitting around folding their arms waiting for africa to rise up and become an economic competitor with them? what do you think the CIA has been doing in africa all these years? 

The truth of the matter is Mugabe did in Zimbabwe what very few african nations are willing to do - he threw off the shackles of imperialism, he told the americans and the british to go to hell with their neo liberal economic policies which enabled white farmers to continue exploiting the people of Zimbabwe whilst amassing millions for themselves, it is this type of leadership that we are desperately in need of in Nigeria.

archive:
You're one of those people who mistakingly thinks that racism is the ultimate evil - you prolly think it's about skin colour too. many people have superiority complexes (which is essentially what racism is) and it's not always about race. e.g you meet someone who is silly, then you will most likely think that you are better than them (even if just subconsciously). Do you not think that if Asians were as undeveloped as Africans have been throughout history that they would have been treated exactly the same as us? This is not about skin colour -it's about respect. It's time to take this into our own hands and build up our countries to garner respect - if you're so worried about racism, my friend, this this is the way to finally eradicate it. Just watch how people all over bow down to China now ( just look at the clips of Obama's latest meeting with the Chinese Pres)- that is called respect, and THAT is what Africa needs. It's not about the evil white man, it's about clueless US

The first thing id like to correct is your definition of racism - racism is not just about having a superiority complex it is about having the power and resources to back up your prejudices or superiority complexes.  The fact that  a white person dislikes you for being black or feels superior to you because you are black is not the issue, the real issue is that he can actually do something that will adversely affect your life BECAUSE you are black ie like not hiring you, not allowing you to live in a certain area, not giving you access to proper health care, having you locked up in prison for somethign that a white person would get a fine for - etc  THAT'S RACISM -

here are a few of my personal observations:

Almost everywhere you go in the world you will find blacks on the bottom rung of society - from europe to america (north and south) to the carribean.

In most parts of africa the majority of black people live under repressive autocratic corrupt regimes controlled by western controlled puppet leaders.

In europe, north america, south america and the carribean you have in place a system of racial hierarchy with blacks always placed at the bottom.

In all the above scenarios i have mentioned, black people are always at the bottom of society and subsequently end up as victims of racism partly because we do not have political and economic power and partly because being black has now come to be universally accepted as a symbol of underacheivement, poverty and backwardness.

However i do agree with you that the only way out is for us to build up our nations in africa so that that stigma is removed and like China we become the new pretenders to the throne.  

Yes you are right Obama now has to go to China cap in hand knowing full well that China holds over 1 trillion USD in american treasury bonds, he has to be careful about the way he handles trade negotiations with China and that is commendable on China's part.  That is where we need to be, but ive said this before - are we willing to make the sacrifices that China made in order to acheive that goal?

oyb:
this may help

http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

never too late to learn, so they say. . .

- I fear this may be a little too advanced for "Dame" Patience

If we are saying we want our nation to be taken seriously on the world stage and serve as a beacon of hope to blacks in the diaspora we need to ensure that the people representing us are people who will make us feel proud to be nigerians not people who will expose us to scorn and ridicule.

I remember when i saw Michelle Obama make a speech for the first time in public, i was so impressed, she was well spoken, graceful and humble, despite her Princeton and Harvard background she came across as grounded and sincere. I know a lot of black people felt proud just having her up there with Obama because she was demonstrating to the world that black people and in particular black women are capable of being intelligent, high acheivers.

By the same token I would like to be able to look at nigeria's first lady and feel the same sense of admiration and pride but instead what you have is someone who makes you want to hang your head in shame each time she opens her mouth.

The office of the first lady is taken seriously in western nations because to some extent it it is seen as an extension of the premier's office, this is probably why the majority of western leaders marry well educated women who are able to hold their own in public.

I dont like to compare nigeria to the west because we still have a way to go but there is no way any foreign head of state whose wife is not capable of reading a prepared speech would be allowed anywhere near a podium because that would attract such negative publicity for the politician and ultimately damage his political career.

In nigeria the reverse is the case because as Gbawe correctly stated nigeria is run on a system of patronage and bribery these leaders could not give a damn what the nigerian electorate think of them, hence their total disregard for how they come across.

I was not a fan of the late Stella Obasanjo but i have to say that she was light years ahead of this woman - she was well spoken and could comport herself well in public as can be seen in this link:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzzjFUEPD0w