₦airaland Forum

Ola edo:
You have to ask yourself who really is the "international community".Notice how they never give names of countries in that community. It could very well just be France, the U.S., and maybe 2 other African countries.

In this instance when they talk of international community they mean France and the US definitely not any african nation - those are the two western nations with overt economic interests in Ivory Coast - France because they have invested heavily in the cocoa, diamond and crude oil in the country, america - because of their IMF sponsored structural adjustment programmes which are engaged in the covert transfer of the wealth of Ivory Coast into the hands of the american banking elite.

texazzpete:
I don't know why some people are whining about the 'west' here. Yes, the ECOMOG position is backed by the western countries. But it's also supported by the UN. The proposed action has support even from the likes of China and Russia.

Instead of Africans to be proud that for once ECOMOG is standing united against crimes against democracy (this will serve as a deterrence to coup-plotters) they are here babbling about Western colonialism and interference.
Nonsense.

Well everyone knows that america really controls the UN so no suprises that they are backing an IMF puppet, China and Russia will fall into line if they know they stand to gain oil concessions if Ouattara is in office.

It makes no sense to say that Ecomog is standing united against crimes  against democracy when almost all of its member states are made up of corrupt dictatorial nations with Goodluck Jonathan (commander in chief of corruption) at the helm of its affairs as chairman.

frosbel:
Irrespective of the UN or USA , our standards should be determined by DOING THE RIGHT THING , and not trying to model our behaviour after some so called 1ST World country.

In this instance Ouattara won a fairly conducted election , verified by various international bodies. Gbagbo  SHOULD GO !!!

However I think Nigeria should not send troops into harms way, only in an exceptional situation where the threat of mass genocide and massacres has been validated.

But when we tried to do the right thing in 1993 by voting in Abiola, what happened? wasnt the election annulled by dictator Babangida?  - what did the so called international community do when that happened?  Yeah you guessed it absolutely nothing!!!!

Now a man who has been declared winner by his country's constitutional council has won the election and this same west are now coming forward to shout that the election was rigged? why?

If the west are adopting the stance of an impartial observer why select when and where they intervene?

if the argument is that the west are trying to deter sit tight dictators why arent they implementing this principal in their other (former) colonies? lets look at other french west african countries: Cameroun - the president of that country - Paul Biya  has been in power since 1982, Omar Bongo - late president of Gabon   - longest serving african head of state who remained in power for 42 years with France's support and military aid, Blaise Campaore of Burkina Faso  has been in power since 1987 following his involvement in the murder of his predecessor Thomas Sankara. 

Why is it okay for some african dictators to remain in power for a staggering 42 years with France's backing and not tolerated with others such as Gbagbo?

I also agree with Dede1 on this issue - it is only in africa that an external western organsation is allowed to get away with setting aside the decision of a sovereign state's constitutional council.  This is just like saying that the UN should have intervened to set aside the decision of the US supreme court in announcing George Bush Jnr as the victor in the 2000 US presidential elections.  I find it amazing how the west can criticise Gbagbo for engaging in election malpractices when the US 2000 presidential elections were marred by widespread election rigging and illegal disqualification of black voters in the state of Florida.

I think it is obvious to most well informed people that Ouattara is an IMF puppet who is being backed by France and most importantly now the US.  

The UN does not want to committ its troops to Ivory Coast because it beleives that african lives are a lot less valuable than european lives, the only person with any sanity in this whole matter is the Ghanaian President who has sensibly refused to accede to the west's call for military intervention, lap dog Jonathan as usual is proving as usual that he is a gutless puppet who will do anything his imperialist masters tell him to do.

cold:
Young man it's the same kind of analogy you're trying to make.Re-read my post again

No its not the same analogy - you jumped the gun and started comparing the situation in Ivory Coast ( which has not yet deteriorated into a genocidal crisis ) with the genocide that happened in Rwanda.

I was comparing the west's immediate acceptance of Babangida's illegal annulment of June 12 with their complete rejection of a democratically elected leader who was declared the victor by the highest decision making body in Ivory Coast.  Why accept a corrupt dictator's verdict in one country and reject a democratically elected winner's verdict in another country?

I will even go further and compare the west's total acceptance of Obasanjo's second term in office despite widespread rigging, violence and electoral malpractices with their hypocritical stance against Gbagbo. 

this is how a western publication described the west's support of Obasanjo in 2003:


[b]At a state banquet opening the Commonwealth conference, Australian Prime Minister John Howard commended President Olusegun Obasanjo for returning Nigeria to democratic rule. Howard was handing over the chairmanship of the 54-member Commonwealth, which is mainly made up of former British colonies. Howard’s praise for Obasanjo was an eloquent expression of the double-dealing that characterises the organisation.

The very building that Howard stood in was evidence of the lack of democracy in Nigeria. It cost an estimated N5 billion. A total of N21 billion ($150 million) was spent on the entire conference. The bill included renovating the International Conference Centre in Abuja, and the guesthouse where Queen Elizabeth stayed, as well as buying 400 bulletproof cars. This obscene expenditure took place in country where many citizens earn less than a dollar a day. To speak of democracy when there is such a vast disparity of wealth exists is grotesque.


Elections earlier this year were characterised by politically motivated violence in which several hundred people were killed, the report said. Despite this, the report points out, Britain’s Foreign Secretary Jack Straw hailed Obasanjo’s victory as, “a landmark in the advancement of Nigeria’s democracy.”[/b]

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/dec2003/nige-d08.shtml

cold:
^^So because the international community failed to intervene in the Rwandan genocide,they have no business intervening in future crisis of such magnitude.What a warped logic

hang on! who mentioned Rwanda here? did you not understand my post?  Please re read it if you didnt understand it the first time, thanks

[quote author=Mr, Cork link=topic=590443.msg7581943#msg7581943 date=1295701328]sounds like u like fat IBO womens who look like mens. I bet yo girl friend have a mustache.

is she the funniest comedian in your village? Bro, u neeeed puuuny in your life. (no oofeinse)

[/quote]mustache? fat? looks like a man? nice try bro, but I thought i told you im not interested in your sister. (no offense)

There is one question that i have asked since this crisis started and to which i have not received an answer and the question is: why didnt the international community intervene in nigeria in 1993 when Babangida annulled June 12 - up till now i have received no answer to that question.

If it is that the international community are interested in restoring democratically elected presidents all over africa and not because they wish to protect their political and economic interests in the targeted nations why didnt they intervene in nigeria when it was blatantly obvious that a democratically elected leader (Abiola) had won the elections and an unelected former dictator (Babangida) had brazenly declared the outcome of that election null and void ?? I wish someone could answer this simple question for me.

To me it makes no sense for the international community to overrule the decision of Ivory Coast's highest decision making body in favour of Ouattara when they failed to equally override the annulment by an unelected dictator in Nigeria.

[quote author=Mr, Cork link=topic=590443.msg7580096#msg7580096 date=1295659451]very ugly fat IBO cghick. she is nut funnnies!! (no oofeinse)[/quote]first of all she's not fat, second of all she's not ugly, thirdly she's yoruba and not igbo and finally she is very very funny, she earns more money than you would ever dream of making in ten life times, associates with the movers and shakers of american comedy and lives the kind of lifestyle that is way beyond your reach so why dont you go back to your job as a mini cab driver in the ghettos of london and stop being jealous of your betters? (no offense!!!)

Here is Gina Yashere doing what she does best - joking about - nigeria -  her parents are nigerian but she was born and raised in the UK, she now lives in Los Angeles - i like her, i think she's funny and brave.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2it7M9r7eg&NR=1

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=587084.msg7570036#msg7570036 date=1295536054]If you find any evidence that the natural father put pressure or demands on her, I'd like to see it.[/quote]okay here goes, this is your quote which was made on the  first page of this thread:

isale gan 2:
I saw her on tv a few months ago.  She talked about finding her dad and talking to him and several members of the family.  What stood out for me was how excited she was about the culture. She said she and her husband were going to have their wedding all over again, because the family told her they didn't do it right according to Igbo tradition - her family wants the husband to pay the bride price and do all the traditional stuff.

Well, this comedienne sounds lke a real piece of work!  So, he asked her for a plane ticket, did he?  Just out of the blue, no conversation leading up to it, no talk of how happy they'd both be to be reunited and talk of where best to meet-up, none of that?  And she so conveniently needed to pass that on to the media?  Any publicity is good publicity afterall.  Let's just wash that dirty linen in public.  An entertainer needs to keep herself in the public eye at all cost anyway.  I already don't like her already!  

Hardly the point though - he'd been absent from her life for almost 30 years and only felt the need to get in touch when he discovered that she was now doing well as a stand up commedienne, news travels fast and good news even faster! I just find it strangely coincidental that he decided to contact her the minute her career started taking off.

Also I dont think she was washing her dirty linen in public - she was just being honest about her background, she's forever talking about her mum and how without her mum she wouldnt be where she is today, perhaps people wondered why she never spoke about her dad hence her decision to disclose what went on.  I dont think it comes easy to a person who has  been brought up by a single parent to talk in a disparaging way about the absent parent.
By the way if you've been out of a child's life for 30 years - why try to get in touch - surely that will only serve as a disruption in the person's life - anyway that's my opinion (obviously in Stacie's case it was different as she initiated contact)

That reminds me of the Fashanu brothers.  I know all the drama involved in them finding their dad.  I know how one of them ended up - you're not gonna blame the dad for that too now, are ya?

I presume that when you say you know how one of them "ended up" you mean Justin's homosexuality and subsequent suicide?  

You make it sound like he was some sort of serial killer, i dont comment on people's sexuality as i think its none of my business, with regard to the suicide - i dont really know the ins and outs of what led up to this, but i do think that he felt very isolated and rejected by the only person he'd ever been close to - his brother John, so to answer your question - no none of these things were directly the fault of his biological father, however if he'd had a better support network he might have been alive today.

Yes, I applaud that stance.  This instance does not fall into that category.  The man looked like he did okay for himself.  His family all look fine to me.  The pictures of Stacie with the girls I assume to be her half-sisters, they all look pretty good, not poverty-stricken.

I never said they were poverty stricken,  i simply said that they may have ulterior motives towards her, you dont have to be poverty stricken to have ulterior motives, do you think they would have been so eager to embrace her had she been a single mum with 5 kids living on welfare?  As it is she's done well for herself, she's had a good education and im sure is in a position to assist many of her nigerian "relatives"  back home - all of these factors im sure have been taken into consideration by her new "family".

I just wish you'd join us in celebrating this reunion, mr scrooge.

hey i am happy for her!!check the first line of my first post on this thread.  I just dont want her to get hurt that's all cos i know what our people are capable of.

And what was with your comments about the Igbo wedding?  Cap, do you not follow any traditions anymore?  I shouldn't be shocked to hear that anyway, since you're a marxist and probably worse! ha.  Is it not the dictate of your kind to neutralize all social stratifications and differences.  So our cultures are in danger if you ever have your say in Nigeria's future.  Lord help us.  

I do follow traditions, but only where they are relevant, in this instance they arent.  The young woman was raised by american adoptive parents not the biological father, she would never have known him if she had chosen not to trace him, many adopted children chose never to contact their natural parents, in this instance she did for whatever reason, and i feel the biological father is trying to exploit the situation.

Im not going to comment on my ideological leanings as i dont think they are relevant to this post.

BTW, I'm sure you've heard of Lao Tzu. Not to be confused with Sun Tzu of the Art of War fame.  Lao Tzu (circa. 500 b.c.) was another Chinese writer and Spiritualist, whose work, the Tao Teh Ching, is quite well-known, popular, oft-quoted, and appeals to a wide-range of people.  Well, he had another book, very obscure, which contained some more of his teachings, called the Hua Hu Ching, which was deemed to be so dangerous, it was banned and all copies destroyed in China about 600 years ago.  All this in a bid to protect the masses from its dangerous influence.  The work Hua Hu Ching was recreated and can be found in circulation again.  Oh, yeah.  Don't read it.  After reading the Tao Teh Ching, a few years ago, friend gave me the Hua Hu Ching.  One quarter of the way through, it nearly put me in a coma.  They were right - it is mind control.  Help! hahaha.

I am not an authority on ancient chinese philosophy so i will not attempt to offer a critique of Lao Tzu's teachings, i will however say that ancient philosophical thought has been used throughout  the ages as a source of enlightenment to all people and not just in China but in Egypt, Greece and other ancient civilisations, many of these teachings as you know are still very much relevant and adhered to in modern society.

For example Taoism which is derived from  Lao Tzu's teachings  promotes the need for one to take care of one's health by not ingesting certain types of foods , it also teaches us about how to become virtuous and develop compassion and moderation

It teaches that we should not act  irrationally and think deeply before embarking on anything - im simplifying it - but im sure you get my drift - these are some of the tenets of Taoism - why would one conclude that these are forms of "mind control" - on the contrary i would say that these are spiritual tenets or laws which enable us to live more fulfilling and meaningful lives.

I could equally argue that these nigerian traditions that you insist we should uphold despite their irrelevance in modern society are also forms of mind control, why do you see Lao Tzu's teachings as mind control but the payment of bride price to a woman's biological father who has not been a part of her life for 42 years and who was not even raised as an igbo is somethign to be followed and adhered to?

Surely it makes no sense to expect a woman who was not raised by an igbo father to be expected to adhere to the customs and traditions of a culture that she has not been a part of for the past 42 years?

anyway hope you're well, speak soon

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=587084.msg7560233#msg7560233 date=1295409593]Some bite in that!  hahahaha. What are they feeding you all over there in England?  Something in the water?   You do know that your old buddy, Saggy, agrees with you.  Would you like to revise your statement, counsellor?  I'm just kidding.  I blame UK for this.  Anyway, I'm not up for more discussion about this today.  I already made a number of posts earlier.  You can check to see why I differ in my opinion about this whole Stacie and dad reunion story.

Hope you're having a good year so far.[/quote]Hey you, where,ve you been hiding? no i didnt know i was in agreement with Saggy on this one but hey what can i say that's just how i feel.

I think its wrong for her biological father and his family to make demands on her when they did not bring her up.  Do you know what happens to some of those children that are placed in foster homes?  A lot of them end up  psychologically damaged for the rest of their lives, she may have been one of the lucky ones who was placed with a loving family and was saved from a life of abuse and turmoil.  Its on this basis that i think the father has some balls expecting that she owes him anything after what she has been through. 

There's a british born comedienne of nigerian origin  called Gina Yashere whose   father abandoned her mother (who is also nigerian) and the kids when Gina was 3, fast forward 20 years later when Gina is doing well as a stand up comedian this guy now starts writing letters ORDERING Gina to send him a ticket to come visit "the family" in London!!!!!! Gina is totally flabbergasted - here is a man who walked out on the family when they were kids leaving her mum to bring up 5 kids by herself in london.  Gina did not even bother responding to his letters and has no relationship with him. 

I find men who abandon their families totally abhorrent, but i reserve my greatest contempt for the  ones who try to renew contact after years of remaining incommunicado in order to extract financial remuneration.


http://www.modernghana.com/movie/9205/3/humour-is-the-best-stress-buster-yashere-award-win.html

[quote author=tpia* link=topic=587084.msg7560061#msg7560061 date=1295404856]strange and sad.


He should watch "Meet the Robinsons". That movie is amazing.

I havent read the woman's story but i was wondering [from the comments here] why her birth mother got pregnant by a black man if she didnt like black people.

might have been a one night stand or something? [/quote]Sleeping with a black person and introducing them to your family members as the father of your child are two very different things, there are loads of white girls who sleep with black men on the quiet but many would never openly date nor marry one for fear of being ostracised by family and friends.  The average white person wants to be able to fit in with their friends and family and if being with a black person might jeopardise that they will simply avoid being in that sort of situation.  I can imagine that in 1967 it would have been a hundred times more difficult for a white woman to bring home a black man to her family as the father of her child, hence her decision.

Even in the 21st century you will find a lot of white girls who will date a black guy but will seriously not want to marry one for fear of how their parents will react, one upper middle class english girl on a reality show here in london actually said that her mum wouldnt mind her marrying a black guy as long as he was highly educated, had a very good job and could provide for her, however she said that her dad would "go through the roof" no matter how wealthy or educated the black guy was - go figure.

Also housing in america was and remains segregated in the US, i can only imagine the difficulty she would have had finding accomodation in segregated america with a mixed race child in tow, she probably would have been forced to move into a black neighbourhood because the white neighbours would have a field day gossiping about her each time she would come out of the house with her child.

I think its great for Stacie to have been reunited with her igbo father back in nigeria however i do not think he had any right to expect her to undergo another igbo marriage ceremony or expect her husband to pay a bride price to him - what for? He did not raise, nurture or expend anything on her upbringing, from what i read her adoptive parents raised and nurtured her, as far as im concerned all credit should go to her late adoptive parents for making her what she is today, and if any money needs to be paid it should have been to those people not the nigerian sperm donor. He needs to maintain a low profile (he seems to have managed it for 42 years) and just politely keep up a friendly relationship but not expect that she owes him anything because she doesnt.
As far as saying that her marriage won't be recognised in her father's hometown - who cares - she doesnt live there, doesnt understand the culture or the language and up until a few months ago no-one in that village even knew she existed so i dont see why it should matter now.

I just watched a clip of the show and she comes across as very down to earth and likeable, I can understand her hunger to want to know her biological parents, the fact that her white birth mother rejected her must have beena blow and this is probably why she focused on finding out who her biological father is.

I have a mixed race relative who was also rejected by his white birth mother (he was brought up by his nigerian father, the couple never married) he traced the woman to spain when he was 21 and she had remarried with children from her white husband, when he turned up on her doorstep she went into a panic becuase her husband did not know that she had a grown up mixed race son, she made it clear to him that she does not want anything to do with him, he was shattered by that experience.

I can imagine that Stacie must have felt similarly however her vulnerability and need to feel she belongs somewhere should not be abused by her father who might see her as a meal ticket, i think she should keep her biological father's family at arms lenght if she cherishes her sanity. They are from two different worlds and aside from the fact that they are related by blood do not really have anything else in common.

I watched a clip of her on youtube - she seems very down to earth and likeable, one thing i dont understand though is why she is the only black woman on the show seeing as DC is known as chocolate city.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZA_---s2Xk&feature=channel

e]Dj20 said:

I agree with you on this point CAP28, but the problem is
even if Buhari came back he is also a "Lame Duck", The
problem with the so-called "Good Guys" in Nigeria politics
like Buhari is that they have not come up with a viable plan
that will aleast solve the pressing economic issues
in Nigeria ie Power, Energy, Health, Education & Infrastruce area's

I actually think Buhari and his team of economists did come up with solutions but they were not given enough time to implement all of them - have a read through this article at the link below and see what you think:

http://www.gamji.com/sanusi/sanusi27.htm

Shoo!!! I mean for Real Cap28, these guys do not even write
the Major Legislation that could effect this change, the advisors
at Abuja to this Politicians/Parties are mostly IMF, World Bank and a
multitude of International NGO's boys and girls ie, CFR, NED, Cato, Brookings working
through Nigerian Incorporated NGO'S !!! what a sham!

And dude this is not hear-say when it comes to these advisors as
my friend in Abuja who moves in those "Circles" gave me a tour of these
offices and introduced me to some of theses officials  when i was in Nigeria last year,

Abuja is Just a International/National Lobby playground now,

hmm that says it all, when you say that the advisors at Abuja are IMF, world bank people - are these nigerians working for the IMF and world bank but based in Abuja or europeans working for these organisations but hiding under the cover of NGOs based in Abuja?

What you say makes a lot of sense though because in that link i posted there are references made to pro IMF and World Bank economists who were lobbying in favour of SAP being implemented and on the other side the anti IMF economists who argued against its implementation.

If you remember, Okonjo Iweala was a pro IMF lobbyist who was brought in from the US where she worked for the world bank  to negotiate a supposed debt relief package for nigeria -I believe that she was a stooge brought in to negotiate a deal which would end up favouring her employers (the world bank) whilst cheating the nigerian govt, the end result of that deal was that nigeria ended up having to pay a whopping $12 billion USD in PART PAYMENT of our supposed overall debt to the international financial institutions, despite paying this huge sum, our debt is still outstanding, in addition nobody really knows how that initial sum was calculated.

Another thing that convinces me that what you are saying is true is that NGOs have been used by the US govt as a cover for covert intelligence activities designed to undermine the domestic govts of targeted nations, in many south american countries, the US govt used various NGOs for spying and intelligence gathering. 

We already  know by virtue of the recent wikileaks disclosure that Shell has infiltrated almost every aspect of the nigerian govt and reports back to london and washington accordingly, organisations such as USAID also use similar tactics to spy and gather information, so, yes what you say is very beleivable.

Effectively what this means is that nigeria's sovereignty has been hijacked given that the real decision making does not actually take place in Abuja but in Washington and London, this therefore means that we are not really an independent nation , consequently that would therefore mean that the forthcoming elections will just be a charade because the  winner of the forthcoming presidential elections has already been selected by the west.

If you have time read through Cynthia McKinney@s (US presidential candidate 2008 - Green Party) indictment of the US's overt and covert activities all over africa below:

http://muhammadfarms.com/covert_action_in_africa.htm

DeeJay20:
Yo CAP28, your needed in the post regarding
the Ibo-American Reality star "Stacie Turner"
re-uniting with her Ibo father after 42 years,

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?action=profile;u=616887;sa=showPosts

no problem bros i will have a look at it after ive responded to one of your posts on this thread

If it were that the north were intent on imposing Sharia on non muslims in nigeria how come they havent done it up until now?  

The north has led nigeria for 42 out of our 50 years of "independence" (military and civilian) why haven't they imposed sharia on the entirety of the nigerian populace during this period?

why would the total imposistion of  sharia law on nigeria  suddenly become the agenda of the north now, by the way Babangida secured nigeria's membership  of the OIC in 1986 and no-one accused him then of imposing sharia on non muslims then.

morpheus24:
Stop staring up emotional sentimentality by drawing our attentions to pictures of bound up policital activists. Its a deceptive tactic aimed at swaying the viewers or the readers viewpoint to concentrate and sympathize with your agenda (which is of course to continue to aspouse to this idea of the Imperialist political and economic subjucation of Africa post the colonial era) .

I now understand why we are in such a dire state as a people, so Patrice Lumumba was   "a political activist" *shakes head*   what next? I suppose  Mandela to you is probably a former terrorist - I dont blame you - i blame our educational system that has failed many of us and totally brainwashed the rest.

It might be prudent on your part to put that picture in context of the economic and political climate of the times.  The real lesson to be taken out of the immediate tragic events of the post independence era is that we need to establish transparent political avenues in discourse and erring grieviances without resorting to barbaric and medievel ethnically driven ways of quieting opposition voices as is prevalent in African politics.

Why do you keep on trying to hide behind the use of meaningless big words ?

Lumumba nationalised the mines in the eastern region of Congo which were being run by the  belgian and american multinationals and for this he ended up being beaten, tortured and eventually murdered by a joint belgian and CIA operation - is it that you are incapable of understanding the most basic facts and accepting them as the truth?

Again your propaganda  might work on other simple minded folk but not on me, SORRY!.

What on earth are you on about?  which propaganda? - you must be the only person on the face of the planet that does not know that Lumumba was murdered by the Belgians and the CIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba

I told Cap28 in the beginnings of our little spat, I continue to encounter supposed intellectuals who continue to perpetuate this view point mostly based on inflammatory emotionally charged statements, backroom dealings, marriage allliances' and a naustalgia of past atrocities. Yet when I ask the simple question of what they feel needs to be done, continued, discontinued, proposed, argued e.t.c  as to the solution to issues, they fall short of a simple few empty generalized statements and continue to give me history lessons on subject matters I can easily Wiki to get a brief sense of.

Did  you not read my last  post?, did you not read that in the last 27 YEARS the west have REFUSED AND REJECTED ALL ATTEMPTS BY AFRICAN TECHNOCRATS TO IMPLEMENT AN ALTERNATIVE ECONOMIC PROGRAMME to their Structural adjustment programmes  - what part of that do you not understand? Have you read the Lagos Plan of 1980 at all? Have you read subsequent economic plans for action by african economists who despite never seeing the Lagos Plan of 1980 HAVE STILL COME UP WITH THE SAME RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DISENGAGE FROM SAP?

Living in the past is detrimental to human or societal progress and simply being a part of the problem instead of part of the solution is not a game I wish to endulge in.

Blissful ignorance is equally damaging to one's health and should be avoided at all costs, it appears that you prefer to exist in that state.  Like i said in a previous post  - a man who refuses to learn from the mistakes of his past is doomed to repeat them over and over again until he learns.

I am and will continue to be for certain agendas I view as progressive to African societies and will argue those points basedon their merits anytime anywhere. I am not for or aginst any Imperial powers nor am I a PROPANGADIST.

And what exactly are those agendas if i may ask?

Now back to the discourse: Since yo oppose Quattare based on your assertion that he is an imperialist puppet , what policies has Gbagbo since being in office implemented that has changed the economic landscape of his country in terms of facilitating the general economic climate i.e infrastructure, government policies in IV and improving the lives of his citizenry that requires your support or does he require the control of resources as his only bargaining cheap.

Have you not been paying attention?  Gbagbo HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTING IMF STRUCTURAL ADJUSTMENT POLICIES SINCE HE HAS BEEN IN OFFICE - he has been following the neo liberal economic policies of france the IMF, the EU and the US - these policies involve cutting of public expenditure, currency devaluation, privatisation of public industries and subsequent sale to foreign businesses at rock  bottom prices - all these things Gbagbo has done - now correct me if im wrong but if you cut public spending doesnt that equate to job losses, underfunded schools, substandard healthcare, rise in food prices and overall INCREASE IN THE COST OF LIVING??

If you don't support him then are you jsut blowing steam up our a.z.z.e.s for the sake of it. What is your point that I didn't get the first time around?

I would ask the same of you but i have a feeling im not going to get a straight answer

safari SA:
I hope you guys will not be too lazy to read this. and watch the words in bold. Maybe we call Sanusi a Jihadist!!!!!!!!!!

BUHARISM: Economic Theory and Political Economy
By

Sanusi Lamido Sanusi

[LAGOS]

July 22,2002

(All views are strictly personal)

lamidos@hotmail.com



Some readers and writers alike have done Buhari incalculable damage by viewing his politics through the narrow prism of ethnicity and religion, risking the alienation of whole sections of the Nigerian polity without whose votes their candidate cannot succeed.

I am inclined to agree with this, i think the OP's thread is designed to divert nigerians away from  discussing Buhari's policies and instead focus on spurious claims which may or may not be true.

The reality, as noted by Tolstoy, is that too often history is erroneously reduced to single individuals. By losing sight of the multiplicity of individuals, events, actions and inactions (deliberate or otherwise) that combine to produce a set of historical circumstances, the historian is able to create a mythical figure and turn him into an everlasting hero (like Lincoln) or a villain (like Hitler). The same is true of Buhari. There seems to be a dangerous trend of competition between two opposing camps aimed at glorifying him beyond his wildest dreams or demonizing him beyond all justifiable limits, through a selective reading of history and opportunistic attribution and misattribution of responsibility. The discourse has been thus impoverished through personalization and we are no closer at the end of it than at the beginning to a divination of the exact locus or nexus of his administration in the flow of Nigerian history. This is what I seek to achieve in this intervention through an exposition of the theoretical underpinnings of the economic policy of Buharism and the necessary correlation between the economic decisions made and the concomitant legal and political superstructure.

As i said earlier Buhari's uncompromising stand on corruption and his attempt at paying off our national debt demonstrated that he had more to offer nigeria than his inept predecessors.

Buharism was a stage the logical outcome of whose machinations would have been a transcendence of what Marx called the stage of Primitive Accumulation in his Theories of Surplus Value. It was radical, not in the sense of being socialist or left wing, but in the sense of being a progressive move away from a political economy dominated by a parasitic and subservient elite to one in which a nationalist and productive class gains ascendancy.

unfortunately Nigeria remains at the Primitive Accumulation stage in which the nation remains in the grip of parasites, sycophants, murderers, ex drug barons and ritualists.

Buharism represented a two-way struggle: with Global capitalism (externally) and with its parasitic and unpatriotic agents and spokespersons (internally). The struggle against global capital as represented by the unholy trinity of the IMF, the World Bank and multilateral “trade” organizations as well that against the entrenched domestic class of contractors, commission agents and corrupt public officers were vicious and thus required extreme measures.

And this now clarifies why Buhari's tenure was abruptly terminated, with such opposition it was just a matter of time before his many enemies got the better of him.
The problem we have in nigeria is poor education, many of us are totally ignorant of how the world works and our place within it, when you try to explain the agenda of capitalism, the role of the IMF and the world bank in africa, the collaboration of the nigerian elite in the economic destruction of nigeria it seems to go over most nigerian people's heads.  

Draconian policies were a necessary component of this struggle for transformation and this has been the case with all such epochs in history. The Meiji restoration in Japan was not conducted in a liberal environment. The Industrial Revolution in Europe and the great economic progress of the empires were not attained in the same liberal atmosphere of the 21st Century.

Exactly, the Meiji restoration was responsible for turning Japan into a formidable empire politically, economically and militarily, so invicincible that during world war 2 ,american troops were terrified of engaging with them on the ground hence the decision to drop two atomic bombs on them.

The “tiger economies” of Asia such as Taiwan, South Korea, Indonesia and Thailand are not exactly models of democratic freedom. To this extent Buharism was a despotic regime but its despotism was historically determined, necessitated by the historical task of dismantling the structures of dependency and launching the nation on to a path beyond primitive accumulation. At his best Buhari may have been a Bonaparte or a Bismarck. At his worst he may have been a Hitler or a Mussolini. In either case Buharism drawn to its logical conclusion would have provided the bedrock for a new society and its overthrow marked a relapse, a step backward into that era from which we sought escape and in which, sadly for all of us we remain embedded and enslaved. I will now proceed with an elaboration of Buharism as a manifestation of bourgeois economics and political economy.

Most definitely, and now here we are again, going through the motions of democracy once again, deceiving ourselves that the likes of Jonathan and the PDP and other thieves will ever have anything worthwhile to offer the average nigerian.  A time will come when we will beg for a return to the Buhari/Idiagbo era, we will recall those days with tears in our eyes and refer to them as "the good old days" .

The Economic Theory of Buharism

One of the greatest myths spun around Buharism was that it lacked a sound basis in economic theory. As evidence of this, the regime that succeeded Buhari employed the services of economic “gurus” of “international standard” as the architects of fiscal and monetary policy. These were [b]IMF and World Bank economists like Dr. Chu Okongwu and Dr Kalu Idika Kalu, as well as Mr SAP himself, Chief Olu Falae (an economist trained at Yale). At the time Buhari’s Finance Minister, Dr Onaolapo Soleye (who was not a trained economist) was debating with the pro-IMF lobby and explaining why the naira would not be devalued I was teaching economics at the Ahmadu Bello University. I had no doubt in my mind that the position of Buharism was based on a sound understanding of neo-classical economics and that those who were pushing for devaluation either did not understand their subject or were acting deliberately as agents of international capital in its rampage against all barriers set up by sovereign states to protect the integrity of the domestic economy. I still believe some of the key economic policy experts of the IBB administration were economic saboteurs who should be tried for treason. When the IMF recently owned up to “mistakes” in its policy prescriptions all patriotic economists saw it for what it was: A hypocritical statement of remorse after attaining set objectives. Let me explain, briefly, the economic theory underlying Buhari’s refusal to devalue the naira and then show how the policy merely served the interest of global capitalism and its domestic agents. This will be the principal building block of our taxonomy.[/b]

I have always beleived that we nigerians are our own greatest enemy and the above quote proves this point, the main reason for our economic stagnation is that we have so many saboteurs within our ranks, i would say that the first thing any progressive nigerian leader will need to do is try and if successful jail these undesirable elements for treason as the writer stated .  I can now see why Buhari was hated so much by even his own peers - many of these saboteurs had and still have  vested interests in seeing nigeria fail and until these people are dealt with summarily we will continue lurching from one crisis to another.

The argument of Buharism, for which it was castigated by global capital and its domestic agents, was that these conditions did not exist clearly enough for Nigeria to take the gamble. First our major export, oil, was priced in dollars and the volume exported was determined ab initio by the quota set by OPEC, a cartel to which we belonged. Neither the price nor the volume of our exports would be affected by a devaluation of the naira. As for imports, indeed they would become dearer. However the manufacturing base depended on imported raw materials. Also many essential food items were imported. The demand for imports was therefore inelastic. We would end up spending more of our national income to import less, in the process fuelling inflation, creating excess capacity and unemployment, wiping out the production base of the real sector and causing hardship to the consumer through the erosion of real disposable incomes. Given the structural dislocations in income distribution in Nigeria the only groups who would benefit from devaluation were the rich parasites who had enough liquidity to continue with their conspicuous consumption, the large multi-national corporations with an unlimited access to loanable funds and the foreign “investor” who can now purchase our grossly cheapened and undervalued domestic assets.

Tomorrow people will say that no nigerian leader has come up with alternative solutions to the western imposed SAP programmes  - i wish the writer of this article could educate nigerians as to what is really going on behind closed doors in this our nation, so that we know for a fact who is really scuppering our economic development.

In one stroke we would wipe out the middle class, destroy indigenous manufacturing, undervalue the national wealth and create inflation and unemployment. This is standard economic theory and it is exactly what happened to Nigeria after it went through the hands of our IMF economists under IBB. The decision not to devalue set Buharism on a collision course with those who wanted devaluation and would profit from it-namely global capitalism, the so-called “captains of industry” (an acronym for the errand boys of multinational corporations), the nouveaux-riches parasites who had naira and dollars waiting to be spent, the rump elements of feudalism and so on.

I referred to some of the points raised here in an earlier post, the moment Buhari failed to implement the neo liberal economic policies of the IMF he became a marked man, not only by the US backed IMF but by nigeria's internal enemies of progress and agents of global capitalism hence his removal by IMF errand boy Babangida

Buharism therefore was a crisis in the dominant class, a fracturing of its members into a patriotic, nationalist group and a dependent, parasitic and corrupt one. It was not a struggle between classes but within the same class. A victory for Buharism would be a victory for the more progressive elements of the national bourgeoisie. Unfortunately the fifth columnists within the military establishment were allied to the backward and retrogressive elements and succeeded in defeating Buharism before it took firm root. But I digress.

this is a very interesting analysis one which the average nigerian would do well to pay attention to.   If we are well informed as a people we will then know who we should support,  I for one was unaware that the elites were even divided on economic policy.

This raises a question I have often been asked. Do I support Buhari’s decision to contest for the presidency of Nigeria? My answer is no. And I will explain.

First, I believe Buhari played a creditable role in a particular historical epoch but like Tolstoy and Marx I do not believe he can re-enact that role at will. Men do not make history exactly as they please but, as Marx wrote in the 18th Brumaire, “in circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past.” Muhammadu Buhari as a military general had more room for manoevre than he can ever hope for in Nigerian Politics.

this confirms my beleif that a military leader can be better for a nation than a supposedly democratically elected one if he has the vision, dedication, self discipline and well being of the nation at heart - all qualities that i beleive Buhari had and probably still has.  

Second, I am convinced that the situation of Nigeria and its elite today is worse than it was in 1983.Compared to the politicians who populate the PDP, ANPP and AD today, second republic politicians were angels. Buhari waged a battle against second republic politicians, but he is joining this generation. Anyone who rides a tiger ends up in its belly and one man cannot change the system from within. A number of those Buhari jailed for theft later became ministers and many of those who hold key offices in all tiers of government and the legislature were made by the very system he sought to destroy. My view is that Nigeria needs people like Buhari in politics but not to contest elections. Buhari should be in politics to develop Civil Society and strengthen the conscience of the nation. He should try to develop many Buharis who will continue to challenge the elements that have hijacked the nation.

My thoughts exactly!! Although i beleive that at no other time have we been in such desperate need of a sincere leader and since Buhari has shown that he is the only nigerian leader to date who is serious about implementing change then he deserves to win the presidential ticket.

Third, I do not think Nigerians today are ready for Buhari. Everywhere you turn you see thieves who have amassed wealth in the last four years, be they legislators, Local Government chairmen and councilors, or governors and ministers. But these are the heroes in their societies. They are the religious leaders and ethnic champions and Nigerians, especially northerners, will castigate and discredit anyone who challenges them. Unless we start by educating our people and changing their value system, people like Buhari will remain the victims of their own love for Nigeria.

This is sad but true, we are a nation of sycophants, until we are ready to face the hard facts of life ie that life will never improve for us under the likes of Jonathan and all the other thieves we will continue down this bottomless pit.

Jakumo:
Cap28, in the immortal words of Benny Hill, when you ASSume, you make an AZS out of U and ME.

BENNY HILL!!!! LMAO - now i have an idea of your level of intelligence

Okay so am i to conclude that you are not a black african man? Even if you are not your comments are still ignorant, bigotted and unintelligent.

Jakumo:
I often wonder why those Bin-Laden bearded Muslims, who IMMIGRATE to the UK in swarms, feel so compelled to try and IMPOSE their own culture on a nation that is largely Christian, and whose women are NOT obliged to go about dressed in comical Batman costumes.  All such immigrants who clamor for Islamic law in the UK, or in any other largely Christian nation in Europe and beyond, should be politely shown the door, so they can be deported back to their camel-herding wastelands where they can stone women and amputate petty thieves to their heart's content.  

These fundamentalist fanatics flock in droves over to the UK to abuse the welfare, education and medical care system, over-burden the unemployment benefit programs, and live in free or subsidised housing,  but then, to show their gratitude for all those freebies, they insult their hosts and try to forcibly convert entire neighborhoods into little Afghanistans or Pakistans.  Such ungrateful parasites should be kicked the phuck out of the UK, to go back where they came from.

wow you sound so enlightened!!! you know this is the very language that Enoch Powell - a racist tory MP used in his famous river of blood speech in 1968 - the only difference is that he was talking about west indian and african immigrants then!!

The only people that i know who immigrate in swarms are whites - america, australia, canada, new zealand, south africa, zimbabwe these are all nations where whites have immigrated to from europe and created white settlements in which political and economic power remains solely in the hands of whites (with the exception of zimbabwe).

Talking about people who impose their language and culture on others - how come you speak english - is that the language of your ancestors how about the fact that 50% of nigerians are practising muslims or christians, did their ancestors practice those religions?  Did the white/arab man not impose his own language, religion and culture on you?

YOu are an african who has been forced to adopt a foreign culture, speak another another mans language and practices another man's religion and yet you accuse a tiny minority of muslims in the UK of trying to impose their culture on a majority white population who live in seperate communities away from these minorities - how did you work that out?

yeswecan:
I once thesis-ed on democracy been a messy process of getting things done as one problem with Africa. The question isn't the idea of force itself, its rather what are the people been forced to do? and i do not think imposing an islamic view on a mixed country is such a good one. Iraq is relatively an Islamic nation - so don't compare.

If the force is imposed for economic good backed not by religions sentiment - then am game.

hmm i see what you mean, but dont you think we should give Buhari the benefit of the doubt rather than become judge, jury and executioner - do we have it on record that he advocated the imposition of sharia law on non muslims  in nigeria?

yeswecan:
@cap28

Your argument is limited to economics and i suspect you endorsed Buhari because you know he will never relegate economic questions to the west for answers. I also think so and i know Gej's govt will be a disaster in this sense.  Jonathan is apparently a western puppet - this best Nigeria will ever seen. I understand this argument but our problem transcend just economics, i hope you can see beyond economic terms.  Gej is a bad choice, but we are in a situation where there are only bad and worst choices.

Well economics is the lynch pin of a stable govt, if you can't get the economy right - i see no reason why you should be in office in the first place.  All of nigeria's woes stem from economic mismanagement and no administration since 1983 has been able to repair the damage created during the second republic.  
Nigeria is a multiethnic country and we need a leader who can steer clear of ethnic or religious sentiments, however i still say that i would back Buhari rather than Jonathan because i beleive that Buhari despite his pro islamic leanings will be be less tolerant of corruption and will limit the west's economic and political influence in nigeria.

YOu sound as if you dont have much confidence in Jonathan and yet you are willing to run the risk of backing a man who has done nothing since he assumed office but bow down before western imperialist predators.

Ideally a younger man with  Buhari's self discipline, honesty and uncompromising stance on corruption would be best for nigeria.

safari SA:
@sapeleguy,

@yeswecan and frosbel

You are the first breed I will encounter accusing Buhari for WAI. Even his biggest critics can't use this against him. Will Nigerians in Lagos ever obey traffic light in Lagos if we dont have lasma? Force was the name of the game then, not now, and Buhari is wise @ 69 to know force is out of the question. And I dont twist your position, I challenge it.

There is nothing wrong with using force if you are able to provide the people of your nation with a decent standard of living - Saddam ruled over his people with an iron fist but during his tenure his people enjoyed one of the highest standards of living in the arab world.

OBJ used force to get rid of his political opponents and crush the niger delta militants but reduced the living standards of the average nigerian to a worse state than it was in before he was placed in office.

The chinese communist party operates a notoriously poor human rights track record but the chinese people's living standards are well above those of even many european nations.

Akhenaten:
Any person who supports Sharia is not fit to be president of all Nigerians.

any person who supports corruption is not fit to be nigeria's president

frosbel:
Have you heard that saying " cannot see the wood from the trees "

yes i have, but can you elaborate kind sir

SapeleGuy:
Too many Nigerian lives have perished for the incompetence of these buffoons.
This man is clearly a fundamentalist and will turn Nigeria into a pariah nation if allowed to return.  

This coupist - the harbinger of our economic austerity and doom since 1983 must be encouraged  to eat like a glutton from the pot of electoral humiliation every 4 years as penance for truncating the second republic.  He had his chance to rescue Nigeria from 'imminent collapse' - and quite frankly he buggered it up.

the harbinger of nigeria's economic austerity after 1983 was not Buhari,  but the corrupt second republic under Shagari who squandered billions in oil revenue,  their economic mismanagement of the nigerian economy in collaboration with corrupt western nations, coupled with falling oil prices on the world market placed nigeria in a vulnerable position and enabled the US run IMF to step in with the dreaded SAP programmes.

Buhari actually rejected SAP and the IMF loans and instead tried to focus on paying off our debt  without restructuring the economy, his failure to fall into line with america's neo liberal economic policies placed him on a collision course with the west which eventually led to him being overthrown by Babangida - a US backed puppet.

If you are looking for who to blame for the austerity in nigeria you should be blaming the second republic under Shagari, Babangida and the US govt, Shagari and his cronies were at the helm of affairs during the economic collapse, the US govt recommended the implementation of the austerity measures and Babangida implemented them.  

Jonathan will ensure that nigerians are condemned to a life of infinite suffering and poverty just like Babangida did in the 80s.

safari SA:
Why i am with Buhari. General Mohammadu Buhari, @ 69, is still more honest than my best friend because: he was minister of petroleum & head of NNPC when we built our largest refineries, he was governor of North-Eastern States, he was Military Ruler of this country, and he was PTF Chairman during the Abacha years, yet he remain an average Nigerian with modest retirement income, cows and four houses (the records are there). Here is a man who jailed the corrupt politicians of the 2nd republic, get people disciplined for unruly behaviour, refused to accept IMF's offer of loan which finally crippled this country, fought drug lords to near-death, made mistakes with good intentions to clamp on the press - the press is also guilty of corruption anyway. in infrastructure, no other living Nigerian in governance can lay claim to his project management skills in delivering the refineries in the late 70's, and building, rehabilitating health centres, schools and constructing roads in PTF. And the amazing part is the refineries were built in three years, and PTF also existed for 4 years, yet so much was achieved! It was the period of PTF I knew Nigeria's money could work. with little percentage of our oil revenue, i saw my village's untarred road in deep black, shinning tar! I saw hospitals with enough drugs, beds, clothings, i always saw as i am seeing in Lagos. He had his flaws, but merely studying this man including different articles and criticisms of his personality and style of governance, i conclude that this man is not a muslim fanatic, not a corrupt man, but an uncompromising human being who stands for what he believes in. this is what is lacking with Jonathan, Atiku and all the other gladiators. We have been brainwashed with the 'vices' of Buhari. what makes buhari a religious fanatic? what makes him more of a coup plotter than jerry rawlings who overthrew governments twice but left cleaning up the mess in Ghana? is it Jonathan or atiku or PDP as whole that is as honest at this man? Let me state Jonathan's corrupt tendencies since coming to power - he offered Tunde Bakare 50000 dollars in aso rock, his wife's women for change innitiatives is a massive billion-naira war chest being used for political campaign, he bargained with mark and bankole to buy Nigeria's official residence in exchange for Lawmakers' bloc vote in PDP primaries, he has given all PDP governors (corrupt or not corrupt) automatic 2nd term ticket, he failed to arrest Uduaghan who was mentioned in Ibori's case file that has been used to jail his wife & aides, ensured he won the delta rerun, he has not found anyone corrupt since the case of ibori, billions of dollars was shared on December 31, 2010, 14 days to date it was to be shared, but early enough for PDP primaries! all these shows that he can tolerate corruption as long as it does not affect his ambition for power. Jonathan has had more scandal in less than a year than perform to our expectation! atiku is another case of corruption one does not need to overflog. all the allegations i hear people raise against buhari has been addressed by Buhari himself, unlike Babangida that has refused to say what happened to June 12. ours is to research very well on this man and form our opinion. Buhari has the best credential of all because he meets the basic requirement of what Nigeria really needs. someone who will be uncompromising in the fight against corruption. Nigeria can never develop or her people be straight in their dealings if corruption is not wiped out and corrupt people jailed. we need to wake up and realize that Jonathan is popular because of incumbency factor, as was abacha, babangida, obasanjo, yaradua. if we want to know who is popular for who he is not what he is, watch buhari walk the streets of the north and see the massive crowd of poor people that follow him. the poor masses of the north, including my maigaurd who has never seen buhari, inspires me that those who have integrity but do not have money can be voted into power. And you know why I support Buhari instead of Ribadu, they are both alike, but Ribadu will end up being a younger Buhari who in 1983 was a little too exuberant in driving out corruption. But the old and wise Buhari, like the Old wine, is now sweeter but bitter to corruption. Nigerians need to see beyond the gentle mien of goodluck jonathan and see a man who has shown he is desperate to hold on to power. Jonathan denouncing the same zoning arrangement that made him vice president was simply dishonest. admitting it and then asking for concession should have been the honest way, and if the party refuses then he could have still pushed ahead like he is doing now, but all Nigerians would have understood that it is his party that is stubborn. The rest of the country must emulate the talakawas of the North, who call Buhari 'THE MAN OF TRUTH', not the man of wealth because he practices what he preaches - he doesn't jump queue in Filling stations! Nigerians, we need to think deep and take that leap of faith to vote for this man, do not think that the vote will not count, do not believe the people who have tagged him a muslim fanatic - Nigeria is to complex for a sharia state. we must stand up for a basic requirement for this office of the president - INCORRUPTIBILTY AT ALL COSTS! This is what can take Nigeria far. No matter the idea, no matter big our plans are, if there are leakages in our treasury, nothing can work. I know in our minds we think of the 66 suit cases, the 2.8 billion naira missing in NNPC, the Fela inprisonment, the Nduka Irabor inprisonment. But I admire one thing, Buhari defends his actions! I will not go into this. search for his interviews and make your judgement . Idiagbon was the face of that regime and people say he did the job, but we forget that power does not tolerate a vice outshining his master. Idiagbon performed because Buhari saw him capable and allowed him to be the face of the government. In summary, go north and south, east or west, this man does not deny his deeds, good or bad, and that is integrity! He is my last card for Nigeria, and I will play it with my thumb in April. I dont want a younger generation of mine because we are not tested, and the few - Rufai, Fanikayode, soludo, fayose, oni, saminu turaki, bankole, etteh - have all shown that they can not be trusted. and do not think that a Tayo Aderinokun, and the shinning lights in private sector can do better in government, because it takes the highest level of TESTED INTEGRITY to function in Nigeria's corridors of power which is filled with temptations that can make you sin and get away with it!

very good points made in your post sir,  further reinforcing my disgust for Jonathan and his cronies.  

One question though - given Buhari's track record with rooting out corruption and his intention in the early 1980s to bring notorious former drug baron IBB to book (hence IBBs toppling of his regime) what chances does he have now when the stakes are even higher?  I can tell you that there is no way the west will allow him to win - it will be a repeat of the Gbagbo fiasco in Ivory Coast, the US and britain are firmly behind lap dog Jonathan and his cronies - read this excerpt from a western analyst on Jonathan:

[b]Jonathan gave the US representative a complete account of his political plans to force Yar’Adua’s resignation, become interim president, dissolve the cabinet and hold new elections. He described his consultations with former presidents and military rulers over how to convince Yar’Adua to step down.

The ambassador encouraged the acting president to go ahead with these plans despite the danger of regional tensions or a north-south split within the country’s ruling elite, since Yar’Adua, a northerner, would be replaced by a southerner, Jonathan.

The acting president then agreed to allow the United States and Britain to provide “technical assistance” for the proposed election in 2011—in other words, the transition would be supervised by the former colonial master and the new neo-colonial boss.

To underscore the actual power relationship, Ambassador Sanders demanded assurances that the current head of the election commission would be removed, and Jonathan pledged to “have him out as soon as next month.”[/b]


Can you see how powerless Jonathan is? can you see who is really dictating the tune and calling the shots, now tell me how Buhari can stop the west from exerting the same level of control over himself without triggering overthrow of his regime (again)?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/nige-d10.shtml

safari SA:
@ cap28, so how can Buhari who has not been on talking terms with IBB until recently in Abuja when OBJ, in his usual pretentious ways, reconciled them. I can't see how this 2 can be promoting same agenda when they dont see eye to eye. and which agenda? i can't believe we are still playing ethnic card in this age. so what stops a notherner from thinking a southerner is not going to impose christianity on them. look for another thing to say, oga. the basic requirement is integrity, consistency of character, honesty, old or new breed.

thanks for enlightening me about the fact that buhari and IBB have not been on speaking terms until recently, although i can guess what it was about!!! i personally would not be on speakign terms with someone who toppled my administration!!

The point you made about Buhari refusing to take on IMF loans makes a lot of sense - that is probably why he was toppled and replaced with IBB who implemented the disastrous SAP programmes under the IMF's instructions.

I also agree with what  you say about Buhari's personal qualities - he does come across as disciplined and reasonably honest in comparison to the likes of OBJ and Jonathan  - thats why i added a further comment above about who i would chose if it were between Jonathan and Buhari.  On the whole we need  a fresh and younger more radical breed of leaders who have not been corrupted by power as i think its now time for these old men to accept that they have nothing new to offer the nigerian people.

having said that if i had to choose i would go for  buhari over jonathan (and im a southerner) in as much as i would hate to live under the oppressive sharia laws that buhari would want to implement throughout nigeria if he had his way , I still regard him as being more honest and disciplined with better leadership skills when compared with Jonathan who is nothing more than an incompetent errand boy for the US.

buhari, ibb, danjuma are all members of the northern oligarchy who are serving the interests of the sokoto caliphate (and the western powers) not the nigerian people as a whole, dont forget that ibb secured nigeria's membership of the OIC in 1986 despite the fact that almost half of nigeria's population are christian.

goals of OIC member states -  to serve the  common political, economic, and social interests  of muslim states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_the_Islamic_Conference#Positions

morpheus24:
So what  implications does the above have for African countries in terms of IMF loans?

The only thing I am getting from above is the same "imperialist" redrick. The economic world order" reference. US is the largest shareholder ergo this is a scheme to wield overwhelming power over other countries. Since the cat is out of the bag now what?

What you failed to include in your analysis is to mention the underlying reason most of  these "other" nations were successful in implementing and successfully rebuilding their economies post World War two affairs. Factors that are lacking in most African countries involved in IMF/World bank economics that presents the problem of not being able to follow guidelines that would bring their economies out of stagnation. Here are a few pointers:

1. They already had diversified industries and developed institutions in faciliating the monitoring of fiscal policies and implementation procedures compared to unaccountable fiscal mismanagement and syphoning of fund practices which occur is rampant in most African countries i.e How did Mobutu simply walk away with millinos of dollars leaving his nation with a balloning 175 billion dollar debt. Is that the IMF's fault or responsibility?

2. Comparative advantage in reference to industrilized sectors of their pre world war II economies which again faciliated  speedy recovery and shielded them from world economic crisis situations  incomparison to most African countries who cannot boast for more than 2 to 3 industrial sectors in their economies and are affected majorly by global economic shifts

3. Lack of the ability to syphone large amounts funds out of the system and the continious beggar status African contries show The continious dependency on the IMF is what is killing African nations. They have a choice of not taking the money and finding alternative means of building capital and increasing revenue streams.

Problem is they can't . African countries are stagnated by their own doing. They do not know how to implement macro economic policies, invest in innovative technics or generate multiples of money in an effective and efficient manner. They keep relying on the IMF to tell them what to do, borrowing without investing in sustainable growth sectors vis a vis the new legal methodology of syphoning money out of government. They have been relieved of tons of debt amounts yet still stagnated.

South Africa is about the only  good example of a country that engages in strong internal debates interms of how these loans will affect their regional and global standing before they go on taking on IMF loan obligations. The rest of Africa is indeed a sad story.

Thats a false statment otherwise give specific examples. The IMF/World Bank doesn't only deal in funding loans to distressed countries. Their tasks include but are not limited to partnering, consulting, providing implementation strategies for and in conjuction with their member countries in the logistical use of monetary loans and  policy decision making.  The failure of the IMF in any country is not soley based on the IMF but on the country itself.

Therefore it is incorrect to conclude the above by only looking at what they do in terms of loan bailouts and funding issues countries face,  The UN's  millenium development goals was accepted by each country that signed on to its accord and in order to achieve its outlined objectives you need funding.

Where are they going to get it from. They can't sell any worthwhile bonds to generate debt financing, They don't create environments in which innovation thrives, they don't have steady tax policies to generate incoming govt revenue, Even basic power and infrastructure is absent to facilitate a massive influx of FDI. Yet people like Govt fashola believes that sanctioning projects like the Eko Atlantic city project is a sustainable development goal for lagos to embark on? Is that the IMF's decision? Where are the priorities?

African governments have no plan and have no direction, just running around in circles acting like they know what they are doing.

It is not the IMF's job to continue to oversee and device solutions to African problems and before any one signed up with them I don't think they ever forgot to mention that they are profit driven entities that require a return on the money they loan out to people.

If you don't want to be a slave to bankers n loan officers its either "YOU" understand what you are signing up for, if you don't then don't sign up, find drastics ways to repay your loans low enough to renegotiate terms with your creditor,device strategies to live within your means or default completely and take the hits of being branded a "no go are"a with the long term plas of rebuilding your finances from within by creating value in every aspect of your society. 500 BILLION DOLLAR total African debt and a further 93 BILLION per year needed to develop is irresponsible. We need to start taking responsibility of our future!

Shikena!

Morpheus once again you totally exonerate the culpability of the west in africa's economic staganation - perhaps you might want to consider that in  1980 nigerian technocrats created an economic plan aimed at redressing the problems created by the economic mismanagement of the 70s - it was  known as the Lagos plan of action and was  backed by the OAU  its sole objective wass to increase africa's economic self sufficiency. It was Africa's collective response and solution to the damaging effects of IMF imposed SAP programmes -  here were some of its objectives:

change Africa's total reliance on the export of raw materials.

ensure that development and growth is  based on a combination of Africa's considerable natural
resources, her entrepreneurial, managerial and technical resources and her markets
(restructured and expanded), to serve her people.

map out a strategy for development and implementation;

cultivate self-reliance.

mobilise her entire human and material resources for  development;

pursue all-embracing economic, social and cultural activities
which will mobilise the strength of the country as a whole and ensure that both the efforts
put into and the benefits derived from development are equitably shared;

pursue efforts towards African economic integration in order to create a continent-wide framework for the much needed economic co-operation for development based on collective self-reliance.

Also africa's economy was growing steadily up until the mid 70s when commodity prices crashed and many african economies fell into bankruptcy, economic mismanagement and corruption did not help and the problems were exacerbated.
As a result many african nations were forced to go to the IMF to borrow money - in 1985 nigeria accepted loans from the IMF on the condition that we "restructure" our economy - nations who refused to implement these draconian policies were threatened with economic sanctions, export market closure and military intervention, african nations have since been plunged into economic crisis 


1989 - african countries responded by coming up with an alternative to the IMF imposed SAP known as the african alternative framework to SAP for socio economic transformation - this programme highlighted the fact that SAP programmes were weakening african economies and making them subject to economic control and dominance by western economies,

1989 - the african alternative was condemned and rejected by the IMF/world bank and never implemented.

throughout the 1980s africa has been  plunged into economic and social crisis, wars have been  fomented all over the continent - all funded by the west

the western nations have also embarked on a relentless smear campaign in which they brand african govts as inept, corrupt and incapable of self governance

from the 1980s onwards african nations have continued to try to implement the recommendations fo the Lagos Plan of 1980 but are continuously met with opposition from the west and the reiteration for the need to carry on with SAP.

Since 1985 right up until 2002 - african nations have continued to try to get western nations to authorise the implementation of a more humane economic programme aimed at alleviating the suffering and deprivation created following the devastating impact of SAP but all to no avail

In 2002 a new organisation known as NEPAD was formed promising to succeed where previous economic action plans had failed  - unfortunately instead of implementing the recommendations of the lagos plan it has decided to adopt the neo liberal economic policies of the IMF and the world bank totally overlooking the disasters that these policies have created for the african continent.