pranil: Can I ask why is there Inverter generator changeover in the last picture ? The Conext SW has a separate DC panel and optional charge controller with GEN input in . In fact the correct way to do a clean job will be to use Conext SW charge controller , DC breaker and connect generator start to inverter . Right now the customer is spending more than half a million on inverter and getting a 200 K inverter function
Very intelligent question. The reason is to allow us to bypass the inverter if we have a problem or need to service it. The SW has an optional AC breaker panel. It cost over 100k. The changeover is less than 10k. We used individual breakers in addition to the change over to arrive at the same result. Schneider does not make it mandatory that you use their controller. I used an 80 amp FM that cost half of what the 80 amp Schneider controller costs. The generator start works if your customer has a generator that can be started by remote contact.
FYI. Here is the wholesale prices of the items you mention 2524 N393k AC Panel / breaker N94k DC Panel / Breaker N88k 80 amp C/C N392k Gen start N50k.
Retail price is higher. I saved my customer N450k by being creative and accomplishing the same thing. But I am sure you have a better idea. Please share so that I can try it.
Barezzi: Beautiful installation above mutilated by the writing on the changeover switch. With the amount of money spent already, surely that wrting would have been better presented.
l Wonderful observation. We have a ptouch printer sadly my crew left it in Lagos.
zeestone99: Na dose kind pple Chris post dier picture so
Here is another one. We did an installation in Ilorin. The client hired someone to perform service on the batteries. He poured out all the electrolyte and refilled it. He broke the battery switch and they hired an electrician to perform repairs. Look at the pictures and don't laugh too hard. He told them that the blinking AC light meant an air conditioner was on in one of the rooms. He had to bypass nepa because his connection crested problems. First two pictores are him. The last one is us.
earthrealm: @chris, the wiring of that panel in ur pic really got me lolling hard...these clowns sabi spoil this renewal energy biz for una o, cos they would end up iscouraging most folks with thier useless ans s.tupid connections and set up. the samte way the kazeems spoil peoples cars
I can't use the Kazeem to refer to them. One of our team associates is named Kazeem Same roof and panels. We had to patch holes in the roof. No rack and they left holes in the roof.
iLoveTheSun: mmh. did they put two (low-cost) solar charge controllers in parallel? I don't think they will be able to work in sync, because those charge controllers do not have any interface to communicate to each other. The charging process will not work properly the way it should work.
(I guess the installer thought you can double the power (current/Amps) by putting two controllers in parallel? Please correct me, if I am wrong.)
Just an example: the price of a 60 Amp charge controller is normally more than three times of a 30 Amp controller. Those low-cost solar charge controllers are good for one or two panels, but 2 kWp is a nice solar array, which needs different equipment. When they get overheated, they just stall... because they have poor heat management. (You would mount them on a metal sheet for better waste heat management.)
I need the data of your charge controllers, U(dc) and I(dc) where your solar photovoltaic is connected, and current Amps and voltage where your batteries are connected. Where is the DC side of the inverter connected (Load)? to the solar charge controller or directly to the batteries?
How are the eight modules connected? Parallel x series? Do you have a name/type plate of your modules?
How are the six batteries connected? Is it a 24 Volt system? 3 banks with 2 batteries in series? Please check if the cables from all the banks have the same length as well.
Do you have a diagram of your installation as well? I miss some fuses and breakers, so that you would be able to break down your system into modules. e.g. switching on only one battery bank, and testing the performance of that battery bank, than switching it off and switching on the next bank, etc. So that you can measure with a Voltmeter and see if there is any strange behaviour. Always put the same load on and check for how long the system lasts... --- Let's assume the sun does shine and you have 1.800 Watts (peak) power from your roof. And you have a 24 V system, then it's 75 Amps. That's a lot! On the solar PV side, you need high voltage + low current breakers/fuses; and on the battery side, you need low voltage + high current breakers/fuses. I recommend to put fuses in each solar panel string, and fuses in each battery bank as well for the total bank. In case of a battery cell failure/shortage, the fuse will melt and will not affect the other components. Fuses should protect your expensive components from any kind of failure/shortage or oversurge due to lightning (special protectors required).
A new client of ours got the same from another installer same controller. It is a pwm controller. Good for small systems under 500 watts. I am going to guess that each 1000 watts gets its own controller. Problem with pwm is cloudy weather and low battery voltage. Let's say that the panels are putting out 10 amps and your battery voltage is 22. Your 1000 watts I'd only putting out 220 watts. Same situation with an MPPT controller. It will step down the voltage and increase the current. The same conditions now you will have your 1000 watts producing a minimum of 396 and as much as 500 watts. The pwm is leaving between 176 and 280 watts. This makes a huge impact in your batteries getting charged. See pictures of the controller and what passes for wiring.
bigrovar: wow that's awesome won't be the first I am hearing such testimony. My current project is to use the Raspberry pi to talk to the Tracer controller using a Tracer python module. It will then upload data from the tracer to an online server via FTP. This would allow controller real time data available online.
I am lazy. Schneider Electric and SMA make all that stuff. I will be going from the Rich Electric Inverter to Schneider or SMA and I intend to deploy the monitoring equipment and software that they have
bigrovar: Not sure am subscribed but seen most of your videos. It inspired me to make mine.
Wow. Thank you. I am humbled @bigrovar. I was a Ubuntu fan years ago. I had installed it on my server and desktops in my home office. My sons liked it. The middle one works at the IT department of a local university. It paid off. The baby who goes to the university next year wants to major in computer science. Sorry to go off topic.
Monlo: @bigrovar,i have subscribed to your youtube channel,and now your follower on twitter.Even downloaded your videos.Thanks for everything,you have now made me able to generate my own electricity and am happy you did that.I enjoy your tutorials alot.Godbless you.
@Chris81964,what your youtube username?
Green all the way.One love.
Thank you for subscribing to my channel on YouTube
Monlo: @bigrovar,i have subscribed to your youtube channel,and now your follower on twitter.Even downloaded your videos.Thanks for everything,you have now made me able to generate my own electricity and am happy you did that.I enjoy your tutorials alot.Godbless you.
bigrovar: Btw Chris. Are you on Twitter ? Some recommendations I want to send your way. Some Lagos based followers are interested in solar
I am on Twitter personally @chris81964 and as a business @atlanticwastepw. Thank you for thinking enough of me to recommend. Subscribe to me on YouTube. We have over 60 videos. I did most of them in Nigeria.
bigrovar: Please brother. Point to where I talked about the size of my pocket. Do you know the size of my pocket? Who is talking about pocket size. Point to me where I suggested or insinuated that installation should be done based on my pocket? I talked about installation having to be economically viable to make sense. Economic viability of a project is unique to each project and what individual can afford. I spent more time advising on how to make a system efficient so that the consumer spends less on generation which is pretty much what everyone here agrees on. Europe, China and middle East are all middle income countries what applies there don't apply here. Less than 2 million Nigerians earn more than 250k a month. To that extent Nigerians are generally more sensitive to cost. I am not a installer I don't sell solar product I feel no conflict of interest when I advise people to take time to make their system efficient before going solar. I shared my experience with solar here for anyone who may not be able to fork out the start up cost to take time and plan over a period buying that they need piecemeal. But that is a choice if anyone has the money and it makes sense by all means. I live in Abuja where someone spent over 30 million on solar for his house. Having a well efficient designed system is not about throwing money. It's takes serious planning that including consumption efficiency, system design all to ensure the end user gets the optimum value for his money. Your friend made the investment because it made sense for his business. He pulled the trigger after making some maths to see the cost analysis favoured him going solar. How is That different from what am advocating.
After I subscribed to your Youtube page na him you wan fight me. Okay oh nothing spoil. (I hope you posses a sense of humour) You do reflect a cost bias. Give an opinion just like you did in your video and let the people make a determination as to if it makes financial sense to them. I commend you for the steps you took and 95% of the people reading these exchanges will not pull the trigger. In addition to hard costs do we look at the soft and more punishing longer term cost of running fossil fuel based energy sources? Just tell the story and let people make a decision either way if it makes financial sense to them or not. And with a name like bigrovar I am sure your pocket matches your name. My company installs solar and if we sell based on upfront cost we will be out of business.
Solar power involves compromises. Yes on extended cloudy days you turn everything off or turn on a generator to charge your batteries. You have to do more planning during the rainy season than you would with the grid or generator.
However would I give it up. The answer is no. I place a very high value on having electricity 24/7.
bigrovar: I do not disagree with anything you have said. Only thing I added was for him to look at the economics of solar to consider if it is worth it. This was in response to the brother that gave a ball park figure of what it could cost to implement solar based on the energy figure he gave.
Go on Nigerian Twitter I am one of the biggest promoter of RE and solar energy. However RE should not just be about power generation it is about economy and conservation of energy. All three most go together to be viable. No point going solar if in your case the economics and opportunity cost won't favour your business. Especially if your business is AC and heavy machine intensive.. the start up cost might be such that it would be difficult to recoup back before your first financial maintenance usually the battery. Even if you could. That up front might just be too much to release one time.
For me I planned my system over a 12 months period.. making adjustments and creating efficiencies in areas like ensuring my house had natural cooling even during hot season.. this involved choosing what part of the city I site my house, type of window, where my window is facing etc. I took 600w off my power needs by outsourcing security and external lighting to external solar security motion sensor lights that cost less than $60. Invested in energy saving bulbs from Philips highest of which is 11w but most are 8 and 5w. Got an LED 43 TV that uses 35w. A freezer that can run even with 800w inverter (startup surge and all) all this I got 12 months before buying my first solar equipment.
And when I started buying, it was in piecemeal over a period of 10 months. 2 240w panel, charge controller, inverter, breakers, mc4 connectors, crimpers , wire lugs etc.. last thing I got was the battery which I got in may this year. System has since been live. My earlier activity at conserving energy has been a success.. my room is always chilled never used the AC there once and it has no fan. Just added a 3rd panel 220w panel to put my string at 660w. The result is here http://twitter.com/bigbrovar/status/757182083127185409?s=09
Still approach to solar should be from an economic point of view in my opinion. My investment made sense because I was spending close to 480k yearly on generator hence investing 450k on a solar setup with a battery rated at 1200 cycles at 80% dod (which is cycled daily at 35% dod) is a no brainier for me. Everytime I think of the money spent.. I remember the cost of generator and I have no regrets.
Still I will always recommend that people do their maths to see if the economics favours going solar. As much progress has been made. Solar is still not affordable. Battery tech is still background. Over 90% of off grid solar rely on Lead acid batteries which are highly inefficient when it comes to charging and discharging. New technologies in batteries are not mainstream yet and are very very expensive. When I can purchase a power wall battery for 150k that can will store at least 5200wh of energy and I can totally discharge it and replenish without worrying about dod. Then we would no that we have arrived. For now. Alternative energy is still alternative. It requires separate set of thinking outside how you approach grid power.
The size of your pocket should not determine another persons choice. Solar is very mainstream in the US, Europe and China. Go to the middle east and it is widely adopted. The size of your pocket should not be a determinant to what another should do. A friend of mine has a factory close to my home with 665 KW of solar installed. It made sense for his business. I changed my light bulbs, I purchased an energy efficient freezer. These are practices that are common in the West where people pay the real cost of electricity unlike the subsidized values we pay in Nigeria. People who are not into energy efficiency and with money to burn will pay a higher premium to get solar power. Lead acid batteries come in different flavors. The Rolls Surette, Trojan IND or L16, Hoppecke are high end batteries designed to give you a minimum of 7 years and up to 15 years with proper maintenance.
iLoveTheSun: @guitarlife: send me a private message with your request.
@shamecurls: I did not know that an inverter can be used for both directions: DC in, AC out and AC in, DC out?
Anyway, I'd recommend a smart battery charger with three phase/stage charging and <20 Amp (less than 10% of AH value) It takes longer to charge, but you don't stress the battery and have a longer battery life (i.e. more cycles).
That is why they are called bidirectional inverters. They convert AC to DC and DC to AC.
I run a 24V 1.5kva Inverter with (2) Battery banks consisting of 4 units 12V 200AH batteries. I do use the inverter to charge both battery banks but heard from my installer that I should get an external charger as I could damage the Inverter.
Question
How true is the notion that I could damage my inverter due to long charging hours. i.e Same Inverter charges Bank 1 and Bank 2
I guess the manufacturer of the inverter must know less than your installer. Why else did they put a charger in it? It is called an Inverter charger for a reason. He can come clean and tell you that he sold you suspect equipment and the only way to prolong it is to use an external charger. Outback, Victron, Magnum, Schneider Electric and SMA have Inverter chargers and they recommend that you charge your batteries with the inverter charger. In regards to the banks, the worse that could happen is an imbalance due to cable length, resistance and stuff like that.
CoolKizzy: Thanks bro, I spent roughly 384,000, from 1st April to 10 July on diesel, fuel and maintenance of generators, plus they are depreciating. This is exclusive of the monthly outrageous EEDC bills. That was what prompted my search for a cost friendly alternative.
Now the plan is to go solar remove every heavy machinery and use them only for bulbs, Clippers and TV. Then still be connected to the discos and use it to power a. C when power is available, this will reduce our standard but I think it's necessary to survive first. I'll then purchase a smaller gen for my heating equipments which are not used more than an hour cumulative per day.
At that rate you would have spent 1.3 million Naira a year not including the cost of a generator. Look at solar. It should be an option
bigrovar: By brother. Look at the economics and see if it pays and makes economic sense in your case to go solar. Solar sweet but the technically is not there yet. It is still too expensive especially with very high energy consumption. All those adjustments cost money.. money which can be reinvested in the business. Now here is what I did, maybe it will work for you. Calculate how much your spend on generator maintenance fuel repairs and all. x 12 (representing 12 months) should give u roughly how much u spend on fuel. Let's say u want a solar setup hat pays for itself in two years. U can further multiply the yearly figure by 2. The final result if it is close or more than 10m then you can consider solar. If it is less. Then the economics will not favour you. Panels are coming down in price but there are still not there yet. Battery technology is still stone age and improvements are slow and very expensive. One day renewable will get there .
Sounds like something Fashola will say. Solar is an option that should be on the table for everyone. With proper planning you can make it work for you. Invest in the proper equipment upfront. Battery technology has advanced beyond the stone age. We have Lithium Phosphate battery, Saltwater batteries and the Iron Edison style batteries that have in excess of 3000 cycles at 90%. I currently use flooded batteries that have a duty cycle of 1500 at 50%. When they eventually die I will replace them with one of the batteries that I mentioned. I don't have AC, however I have fans, TV, A freezer that runs 24 hours a day, a refrigerator that runs from 8 am to 5 pm daily. I have not used a generator in 2 years. Because of the unusual rainy and cloudy weather that we are experiencing in Lagos I will purchase a generator. I intend to run it for 4 hours a week to compensate for the deficit in production from my 2 kw in panels.
durodee: I got it off/ through a friend as left over from a project. Contacted him recently for a friend on this forum. He claimed the panels he has now are not from the same manufacturer but a German company. Efficiency said to be better. Panels 140w @ 70 -75v range. He was not with the exact specifications where he was.Price is high 49k @ 350/watt. He claimed dollar wahala. My system was thunderstruck a few weeks back and my EP solar 60amps MPPT cc was damaged . My measurements prior to the incident was encouraging. I generated 1.1kw by 10.31am despite the day being a bit cloudy. I am presently using an hybrid system which only calculates instantaneous yield and not total harvest. The performance seems OK but I don't have actual figures.
Sorry about the thunder damage. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for taking time to update me. I want to experiment with them and see if it is an option for our customers in Lagos and Port Harcourt.
durodee: I eventually delved to the realm of thin film panels............14 pieces of 100W DuPont Apollo Panels, all in parallel to a 60amp iTracer MPPT CC............averages 50-59 amps by noon, got as high as 1646.2W or higher as spikes! So far so good!!!! Trying but unable to load pics ??
Where did you buy your thin film. How are they doing in the rainy season?
Fynestboi: I just noticed that July is a special month when I saw that many nairalanders were born in this month and that today, the second day in July marks the beginning of another 365 day journey in your life.
This is to wish all July 8 nairalanders a happy birthday.
May the Lord continue to strengthen and protect you, guide you and Crown your efforts with success in all ramifications. Long healthy live in prosperity guys.
And to other July born, happy birthday in advance.
inception101: Hi, nice thread. I had mine recently installed. 2.4kva with 2 btl sollar batteries and 1_200wats solar panel but the truth is i'v never enjoyed it since day one as I stay in d east and I paid for for transportation and installation all d way from ibadan and yet the thing has been a real pain and regrets ever since. Imagine leaving d house since morning and coming bak and d so called solar doesn't last 30 minutes with ma laptop, ceiling fan, ps4 and one or two bulbs on(with out load, it reads 12.7 and when fully charged with gen it reads 13.1 but as soon as u power anything it goes down to 12.5 and below drastically). It's so disheartening. Pls what's d way forward
There are so many variables. So lets eliminate them and then we can get to your problem. 1. How many amp hours are your batteries? 2. What is the size of the controller connected to your 200 watt panels? 200/12 =16 amps. It has to be at least that size. If you have a 100 amp hour battery it will take 6.25 hours of direct sunshine to charge them at the full 200 watts. You know that will never happen because we average less that 4.5 hours a day at this time of the year. And after losses you will never see 200 watts. 3. What is the load total for all the devices you connect to your batteries?
Look at your batteries and there are two numbers that represent you bulk and float voltage (cycle and standby use). 13.1 during the charge cycle is below that number. Your batteries need to see 14.4+ V daily during the charge cycle. Some need to see close to 15V. Read what it says on the side of the battery. You don't get to those numbers your batteries are not fully charged and would eventually fail because of sulfation. There is nothing wrong when the battery drops from 13.1 to 12.5 when you take the generator or charge source off.
Learn about your batteries and you will get results. Good luck.
1kinggy: The sticker showed that the freezer consume 1.15KW in 24 hours. He would need to limit the use as this equals the rating of his inverter.
KWH is a measure just like the way the odometer in your car records how many miles or Km you traveled. It does not tell me how big your engine is or how much fuel you have in the tank.
DUNKA: Oga Chris those his batteries look like dry cell batteries and proposed fix might not work as it may have been more suitable for wetcell batteries. @ OP you may have to close eye and get new batteries as yours may have already died
Bros Dunka believe it or not you can equalize your sealed batteries. I would not do it to GEL. I equalized a set of AGM batteries last month and I saw a big improvement in the performance of the battery bank. The Victron chargers have an equalize mode for all battery types and they can be activated using the tools they provide
earthrealm: I rather use ac water than pay 4500 for some water some random people r selling xlaiming to b distilled water...na naija we dey so. Peeps can b heartless......ac water is free...i just take my container n hook it to the ac drain hose at the office..in 2 days its full.n i harvest..chikena
@poster asking abt network charger...send a pics so we can understand what u mean...no1 knows what u mean by network charger!.
I paid 4500 for 25 liters and I have no problems with it. What is your objection to what I paid for it? Your solution while great still has contaminants. Leaching from the coils, dust and possible bacteria. You should filter it before use.
olabakefish: you mean something can be done about the battery, I don't have that kind of charger, where and what type charger can do that. Please if you can be of help I'l appreciate it so much. Here is a picture of the battery
I usually use inverters with good AC chargers. There are external AC chargers but I don't know where you can buy them in Nigeria. I have seen a lot on Konga. I will start there
Tnycee: Please guys....please where can I get distilled /deionized water. I need to water my batteries. Also, it there an efficient way of producing it in large quantities?
Awaiting your responses. Thanks.
My people purchased it in Ikeja. Email anwokolo@atlanticwastepower.com she will tell you where our service team purchased it. 4500 for 25 liters
Satellite TV Technology › Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by chris81964(m): 7:00pm On Jul 30, 2016*. Modified: 11:16am On Jul 31, 2016
