₦airaland Forum

sonofthunder:
God is not subject to you or your tests... he does as he pleases...

So what's the point of praying?

Conner44:
Brothers and sisters, please leave all these our Nigerian atheists alone. They can only come on the Internet to say the thrash they keep tied down in their minds.

Their parents and siblings are religious, it's just that they may have traveled to one mumu oyibo country and abandoned attending church for a while then begin to believe they are atheists

If they are in their parents or guardians or relatives presence they won't dare attack religion, you will see them chanting and praying because they don't want to be ridiculed.

So your position is that people should simply continue believing things because the people around them do? That is a sure-fire way to remain small-minded.

Imagine the millions of Muslims using this same type of social control to justify staying in Islam.

Everybody in this modern age likes copy copy, because Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Co claim they are atheists everybody wants to feel among as if it will make them successful too.

You seriously think people are becoming atheist because we think it's cool? Lol that is a very interesting perspective. I mean, if you think we're cool then just tell us straight up.

Leave them jor, they are a minority in our existence.

*A growing minority

Over 100 different gods but they choose not to believe any of them.

Why should we? Where are the facts?

There are over 6000 mythical dragons yet you refuse to believe any of them! Heretic!

That's how silly you sound. Why should anyone believe anything that isn't clearly evidenced?

Instead believing that when they die their consciousness will just off like when nepa takes light during world Cup and no generator to backup.

What proof do you have that our consciousness exists independently of our brains? Show me consciousness occurring without a living, functioning brain and then I will understand how silly it is to think that our consciousness shuts off at death along with our brains.

If I happen to meet an atheist I will laugh at them, it's funny thinking that they missed being born an ant or elephant and instead became a human being 'just like that' to live without purpose or significance until the day they die and that's the end of their chapter in existence.

You need to believe in an invisible sky-father in order to have purpose in your life? Why?

Why do you find it impossible to appreciate your existence without the promise of immortality?

Crazyfinedude:
Atheism is absolute on the view there is no God or conscious creator of the universe.

No it isn't.

That's gnostic-atheism. Most atheists here are agnostic-atheists including myself. Agnostic-atheists do not see any reliable evidence for a creator, so we do not believe there is one. But we do not claim to know there isn't one with 100% certainty.

Deists believe in some surpreme intelligence, but do not believe in the human-created "God characters" who do things because of their emotions & actively intervene in our lives. I think a few of the posters on here who are automatically labeled as atheists by upset Christians, are actually Deists.

There is a wide range of non-belief in Christianity/Abrahamic religions, and they all have their justifications. What I like about all of them though is that they all show some level of critical thought. Willingness to toss old ideas that don't live up to scrutiny, despite fears, social pressures, & the strength of childhood indoctrination. That takes courage and smarts.

NL freethinkers are awesome

Because we have a right to discuss our opinions on religion.

Medicis:
"My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts," says the LORD. "And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.

So the evangelist wasn't worth saving but these people were?

How about the thousands of Christians and other groups who have already been killed in Islamic terrorist attacks?

honourhim:
To you what God did is an evil but to God there is nothing evil about using any of his creature for the purpose for which he/it was created.

How do you know what god thinks about his deeds? Did he tell you himself?

Or did you read/hear god's supposed thoughts & intentions from some other source and blindly take their word for it?

And has it ever occurred to you that humans can in the same way be perceived as cruel and evil in the animal kingdom considering the rate and manner at which we slaughter these animals on daily basis? But to us there is nothing evil about it rather they are serving the purpose for which they are meant to serve in our pot of soup etc.

So first you were saying we can't use human standards to judge god. Now you're using human standards as a yardstick to try & defend god. Which is it?

If you stick with the first, that means god can do literally anything he wants and no human can ever call it "evil" (thereby, making him completely indistinguishable from the devil). If you stick with the second, it means god IS evil by human standards, and Christians choose to follow him anyway. You have to choose one.

Again Abraham couldnt have lived in our time. He lived in a time where he could serve the purpose he served. Thats the creators plan and purpose.Generations come and fulfill their purposes and go. Thats how life runs.

Saying this means you don't believe in objective morality (the declaration that the bible is the everlasting moral code). You accept subjective morality based on the time period.

Nope. To consecrate here does not imply burnt offering for human. King James version said sanctify. To consecrate is to set aside for God. He then decides how he will use each of the things set aside for him. your insinuations here are wrong bro.

Isn't god supposed to have made the entire universe?

Which is collectively trillions and trillions of times the mass of our tiny earth, brimming with stars larger than all of the planets in our solar system & our sun combined, most of which have been around way longer than we have. He created all of this yet he wants a virtually microscopic group of organic self-replicating organisms on this tiny dot, to "set aside" some of the even tinier objects he created & supposedly already owns, so he can feel better about himself?

Not only is that extremely illogical but it also just sounds like a ridiculously petty and strange thing for an all powerful god to care about. Your small god is such a clear reflection of the small & unimaginably ignorant human minds that thought him up. The writers obviously thought the earth was the center of the universe (as our human egos would naturally lead us to do in the absense of scientific evidence).

God is the owner of all creation and controls things according to the purpose he made them for. Do you know what it means to be a creator? or is it you, a creature that will set a benchmark that will make God a creator? No. Bro you are still seeing God as your colleague whom you stand on the same plaform with in this life and therefore should be judged like you.

You're acting like it's a crime for someone to care about the moral consistency of the thing/being they're choosing to dedicate their entire lives around. I mean literally your logic is what caused things like the holocaust. "Don't question, don't rely on your own moral compass, just follow blindly". Excuses like "he's not on your level, he's not your collegue" are just EXCUSES to avoid moral accountability.

honourhim:
What is there to explain again?
Were yoou the one that chose to be created?
Did you have any agreement with God before he created you on how he will treat you on earth?
Are you the one that gave life to yourself?
if God's primary aim of creating us is to please us then there wouldnt have been evil at all and all other things that makes us uncomfortable.

Human standards? Your approval or disapproval of God's character is irrelevant to his person.

what you described there is not what he is but you and your co-travellers in atheism will always choose to see everything bad about him. For us who loves him we know that God is so good and that his goodness spreads to everyone including you people. You can only continue to live in denial of this but your denial of it is also irrelevant.

In church the congregation screams "god is good all the time" for hours on end. My question isn't "what does god think of our opinions." It's, how can he be judged as "good" like you are saying, if he is clearly not by any consistent human standard? There is a blatant contradiction that needs to be addressed.

Should we create a new definition of "good" that also includes "selfish, careless, lacking empathy, & dictator-like"? Or do you agree that people should stop saying god is good & start saying, "god is bad but i still follow him"? Surely that would be more accurate.

3 minutes and 29 seconds of the cold hard truth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2T2y_Z96E

honourhim:
Obviously you seem not to be getting the point that guy made. Let me make more clear to you.

1. The creator never consulted you to seek for your permission before creating you.

2. you never had any agreement with him before he created you on how he should treat you in life for you to have the grounds to say he failed in the agreement.

3.His primary aim of creating is not to please what he created.

4.You are not permitted to take away the life of another person because you are not the owner of life. Both your life and the other person's life are owned by God and he has the right to take back the life he has given and there is nothing you can do about it than rant.

5.You can go ahead to scream how cruel and evil God is but to him, life is just running according to the purposes for which he created it.

Let me make a small analogy with animals even though its not exact with God because we are not creators like God.
Animals may have the same bad perception about human in their kingdom considering the rate and manner we kill them on daily basis. To them, we are cruel and evil but to us humans, they are just serving the purposes for which they are meant for in our pot of soup, in our business lives etc

You are just a creature therefore It is not even your standards that makes God a creator.
you can only cry, yell, rant, make noise and display all sorts of anger and denials about him but all those things starts and ends with you. It doesnt change who he is. He remains the creator and runs the universe.

6. You are seeing God as your colleague or partner who stands on the same platform with you and therefore should be judged like you. Too bad bro. GOD IS NOT YOUR COLLEAGUE, HE IS YOUR CREATOR.

Explain how you are certain that any of this is true, and not just a primitive human-made concept of what God is. These are a lot of extraordinary claims and thus they require extraordinary evidence.

Also, explain why the character you have just described should be judged as "good" by human standards if, going solely from what you've just written, he embodies everything we consider "bad" (selfish, uncompassionate, inconsiderate, uncaring). Why should anyone consider him good when he appears to possess the same traits as the devil?

stephenmorris:
cloudgoddess in your last paragraph you sounded like a pantheist who rejects the existence of a personal god

I haven't done too much research on pantheism but I will now that you've mentioned it, I've been seeing it pop up a lot. It seems that the essence of it is that god = the universe?

Seun:
I agree with the idea of aiding the progress of humanity. Knowing that humanity has moved forward because of your life makes death less sad.

I think title should be Cloudgoddess's Philosophical Views or The Purpose of Life. The word spirituality is quite strongly linked to religion. I understand that non-religious people are trying to redefine it to suit their purposes but it's best to avoid the confusing quagmire of that word!

I understand your point Seun, but I personally think the word describes something really central to the human experience, that can & should totally exist without religion. Giving the word up to religion imo would just reaffirm the false perception that religion is the only means by which people can experience deep & profound enlightenment, compassion, wisdom, etc.

Sam Harris, an author & neuroscientist I'm a fan of, writes often on spirituality without religion & why he likes to keep the word. He wrote a short blog post about it in case you're curious.
https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/a-plea-for-spirituality

Antiparticle:
@cloudgoddess, this is an insightful post and I personally identify with most if not all of it.
You are an incredibly bright young woman.

Thank you so much truly I am surprised so many of you share similar views, very cool.

donnffd:
To say i am awesomely inspired is to understate my feelings...

Amazing post you have there, fell in love the moment i saw the topic...

Most of what you wrote is the exact same way i feel about the cosmos and our part of it. I think it was carl sagan(might be wrong) that said we are the universe's way of experiencing itself.

Neil degrasse also said that the most amazing fact of th e universe to him is the fact that the atoms that makes up our body were born in the belly of dying stars. I, personally would go further and say the most amazing fact about the universe is that all the energy that makes up our atoms was around at the instant of the big bang, 13.8billions years ago...Amazing

I also ponder on the amazing fact that the odds of me being here, on this wonderful blue rock floating in space was freaking astronomical, and even if i am here for just a blink of the eye, i am eternally grateful to be experiencing myself(myself being the universe)

This in my opinion is true spirituality...

Nice work cloudgoddess, i hope my future wife is half as intelligent and awesome as you

Thank you for this extremely flattering and enlightening response! And yep that was classic Sagan! His perspective on things was just incredible. I think one can't help but learn about the cosmos and our real history (back before technology, countries, and cultures and even human beings), and be in total awe.

I love everything you wrote here but especially the bolded! I feel the exact same way.

And lastly that is very sweet

Lilbrown007:
Nice One @Cloudgoddess But Do U Think We Have Buddhist Here In Nigeria?? Not Thoe That Stay In India O And Again Is The Religion Even Legalize In Nigeria??

I don't think there are many Buddhists in Nigeria if any lol. But no one has to officially convert to Buddhism, or create a temple or anything to practice it. You don't even have to call yourself a Buddhist if you don't want to. I don't. Some things in the original Buddhist teachings are unproven/supernatural and I don't subscribe to those lol.

I think Buddhism functions very well as simply a practical philosophy, that's the way I use it. Anyone can apply it to their lives, just by learning the skills (meditation is quite simple and doesn't require any special relics, clothing, etc contrary to popular belief) and taking in dharma that resonates with you.

Dharma by the way isn't limited to just the original Buddhist scripts. Lots of modern practitioners, meditation teachers, psychiatrists who use buddhist principles in their practice, neuroscientists, etc have written books and made videos, podcasts, audio recordings that communicate the teachings in detail, with a modern flair, tailored to a present day context, and with scientific evidence to back it up.

These are some of such books:
Mindfulness in Plain English by Henepola Gunaratana
Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha by Tara Brach
Buddhism Without Beliefs by Stephen Batchelor

And there are endless youtube videos. People/terms to search for:
john kabat zinn
thich nhat hanh
mindfulness meditation
Tara Brach

Some short mindfulness/Buddhism videos I like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pd5Ndg0oJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6T02g5hnT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To1wAkYjnHU

I LOVE Buddhism I have so many good things to say about it.

The teachings really get to the root of the human experience in a way that most religions don't. Instead of focusing on demonizing our flaws, fighting against our unpleasant experiences and judging ourselves and others against unrealistic ideals, it urges us to come to terms with the ups and downs of life with an accepting & understanding presence.

In the western world Buddhist meditation has been rebranded as mindfulness meditation, or mindfulness practice. Studies have shown that the brains of people who practice it have significantly larger gray matter in areas related to self control, emotion regulation, and even empathy, as well as reduced amounts of brain matter in the amygdala (responsible for the "fight or flight" stress response & emotional reactivity). http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-brain/

I've personally been practicing mindfulness meditation and reading/watching dharma teachings for a year and a half now and it's been really transformative. It woke me up to how much time we spend "living inside our head", detached from the moment to moment experience of life, constantly struggling against some made up conflicts that exist only inside our brains (I'm not attractive enough, so & so has more friends/money/etc than me, I'm not okay the way I am).

Like most people, I was always walking around with all of these subconscious automatic thoughts of either desire or repulsion, and I was unknowingly letting those thoughts control & drive me, leading to suffering. Buddhist meditations & practices provide a way to stop this cycle of reactivity, and enter into a place of present-moment, nonjudgmental awareness that lets us respond to life (including our own thoughts & emotions) more skillfully and find contentment exactly where we are.

Because of my practice I've become more aware of my inner experience. Less impulsive, less easy to anger. More in touch with my emotions and what events lead to them, allowing me to respond more wisely even if that just means choosing to be present with what I'm feeling and allowing the emotion to simply pass on its own. I'm less inclined to resist or run away from discomfort and this has reduced a lot of suffering for me (because what we resist, persists).

I've also noticed that I'm becoming less materialistic (minimalism has sparked my interest, I'm more conscious of excessive possessions and less likely to buy things I don't need).

Buddhism & mindfulness have taught me that happiness and contentment truly does start within us, we don't have to constantly live life trying to manipulate external conditions to fit our (often arbitrary) standards for happiness. We can be truly content right now, in the present moment, as we are. It takes practice of course but it's so worth it.

Thanks for making this thread! I'd love for Buddhism to become more popular in Nigeria, it would be much needed change in mentality. I can see it being great for atheists or anyone who has left Abrahamic religions behind and wants a reliable means of personal transformation.

I agree.

An ex-Muslim youtuber explains this, reciting Qu'ran verses and all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odgmyi80ZzE

iamord:
Lol. I don't understand all this talk of sin brought in harmful bacteria and sickness .. Is that a creation defence, there is nothing really special.. It just shows that we are in a 'not so perfect world' . There could/would be worse off bacteria in other planets.. Is our sins with great stench that these bacteria and organisms exist in other planets? We have the biggest hurricane in our universe moving in one of the planets (forgot the name) bigger than the whole West Africa. Was it our sin too? .. We have a lot to learn and to understand in this vast system. I believe for us to evolve to higher brain power and consciousness we need to be able to defeat this things that place limits on us. The good thing is that we have discovered them. To me they are all teachers and tools for tasks ahead.

Refreshing perspective I agree with you.

Domislaz:
Atheists say that there is no God yet they think about God day and night. They will always be guilty from the ontological perspective.

It's truly not about guilt. It's about freeing people from religious indoctrination so they can use their brains more wisely, and the world can progress out of superstition and into reason.

Gods & the religions that accompany them were some of the earliest attempts by humankind to make sense of our world & our experiences. Now we have the means to do better, but out of fear and ignorance people still cling to these dated notions. And this has consequences (pointless division and conflict, intellectual stagnancy, inaction due to hopes that a magical entity will solve our troubles, etc.)

Having open conversations that expose the faults in religious God concepts opens the door for us to collectively develop better worldviews.

adoyi8:
nice post, i will save it and read it again and again. i feel so joyous and emotional (what theists misunderstand as the holy spirit). when i see an intelligent, Nigerian woman.

Ranchhoddas:
I know that feeling.

Thank you very much for your generous compliments I'm so glad you gained something from it. You flatter me.

Since I've never written on this topic before on NL I was a bit anxious about how you all would recieve it but it appears my thoughts on these things are actually comprehensible to some of you at least. So that's a huge relief, lol.

DeepSight:
This a great write up with most welcome perspectives.
A few comments though.

Very well said.


True to some extent, but beware that both Abrahamic texts (as well as many other ancient religious texts) do contain a great many pearls of truth and wisdom - pearls which are far deeper than the surface reader might ever suspect in an entire lifetime - and this remains true notwithstanding that both books do contain mistranslations, misconceptions, deliberate alterations, addittions and subtractions and also some outright falsehoods - not to speak of barbarisms.

Nonetheless for the nuanced reader, they are and remain priceless works.


In some ways yes, but in many ways (Spirituality inclusive) we have regressed terribly.


This is a wrong and very misleading definition of atheism.
It is very insufficient to refer to gods such as Zeus, Allah, Yahweh, etc in defining atheism. Atheism is not just the rejection of the existence of these gods but the rejection of the existence of GOD, capital and period - and in this sense I mean a Creator of this reality, however one may define a creative element as GOD is understood in general terms to be.

It is very lazy to base one's atheism on the falsifiable attributes of any specific religious god and I will tell you why. The existence or non existence of GOD is a deep theological, philosophical and logical question which far transcends any religion or culture and has been discussed as a matter for extensive philosophical understanding for generations. It is a logical, philosophical and even scientific question which has and continues to concern eminent scholars and thinkers.

I have often said that there are various types of atheists. The Anti-Religionist Atheist is not really a pure atheist. He or she is atheist only on account of the falsehoods and contradictions in religion. This, as I said, is lazy. A pure atheist does not believe in the existence of any creator for reasons extending to the philosophy and logic of the matter and not merely because he finds old fables incongruous.

Fair enough but beware that we do not come from any stardust - only our bodies do. We are not our bodies. But yes, the inter-connectivity you mention is very much there.

Very well said.


True, but focus more on the Spirit being the centre for such rewiring - not the brain - for the brain is a mere tool employed by the being. The brain is meat remember - and yes it does make a very tasty dish for some.

I agree.

True to some extent, but beware that we are indeed separate from the material universe.

We are more than that. Even goats are more than that, I tell you.

Very well concluded.

PS - I would like to encourage more threads like this from you rather than threads on why God created bacteria.
Well done.

Thank you for your input I appreciate you taking the time to respond & share your perspective, it's nice to see there are some things we agree on.

Ranchhoddas:
See how these Jew worshippers want to derail this fine thread.

Lol, I expected it. I won't get involved unless I see something worth responding to.

Spirituality refers to certain kinds of activity through which a person seeks meaning, especially a "search for the sacred".[1] It may also refer to personal growth, blissful experience,[2] or an encounter with one's own "inner dimension."
...
In modern times the emphasis is on subjective experience[8] incorporating personal growth or transformation, usually in a context separate from organized religious institutions.[3]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

I would first like to make it clear that I have no intentions to argue semantics with anyone. I am well aware that the word "spiritual" is highly associated with religion and superstition (the Wiki article discusses this as well), but words can have multiple definitions.

The spirituality I'm discussing deals with our experience & existence as human beings -- our emotions & our relationship to them, our relationship with other humans, our place in the universe, self-concept and outer perspective, the meanings we attribute to things, subjects like love and compassion and joy, healing from past hurts, and feeling connected to something greater than the individual self. As you can probably tell, there is overlap with the religious definition, and there are reasons for this.

Religion was one of man's earliest attempts to understand not just our outer world, but this inner human experience as well. Unfortunately, most organized religions got a lot of things wrong. But this should be expected, because they were thought up during a time when we lacked much of the information we have now, but still had all of the cognitive biases, ego-driven motives, and subconscious fears that are a part of our evolutionary history -- religious books like the bible & Qu'ran are evidence of this.

Humanity has since progressed in our knowledge and understanding. This is why, like the Wiki article states, new expressions of spirituality are emerging. Expressions that make sense scientifically, do not make unsubstantiated claims (or at the very least, make less of them), do not require dogmatic adherence, are light and never oppressive, and acknowledge the human condition with dignity.

My views have been informed & inspired by various readings I've done on human psychology, neuroscience, philosophy of the mind, biological and stellar evolution, mindfulness, and traditional Buddhist teachings. I just thought I'd share a very tiny snapshot of them (maybe I will add more), and perhaps start some interesting conversation or maybe inspire someone. Please, if anyone has something to share or ask, feel free!

~~~
A short intro into my views

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the literal existence of gods. Someone who simply recognizes that Odin, Zeus, Yahweh, Allah and the rest, are fictional characters that were formulated by human beings and passed on through generations of indoctrination. But the rejection of these characters in no way leaves us barren. In fact, it frees up collective mental space for more enlightened ways of thinking about our human experience.

As more and more evidence emerges, it appears that we are not in any permanent way separate from the rest of nature. On the contrary, we are interconnected expressions of this same universe we gaze at in awe and wonder. We came from the same stardust that formed the sun and we're still exchanging energy with it today. The molecules that make our bodies up are being recycled with other matter on earth all the time. Each of us were born from the interaction of two beings, who were each born from two beings slightly further back in time, on and on till the first sexually reproducing organisms and beyond.

And as these connected beings, capable of traits like compassion and empathy and learning, we actually have the amazing power to aid the collective growth of humanity, within and through successive generations.

We can each develop our abilities to embody and express the most loving parts of our nature, while taming our more survival-driven and reactive emotions & thinking patterns (the ones that lead to war, division, & oppression when unchecked). Neuroplasticity, our brains' potential to rewire itself, allows us to evolve our own brains towards more kindness, acceptance of ourselves and others, presence, creativity, openness, and endless more possibilities (one tool for doing this is mindfulness meditation, which I will probably go into more detail on later).

The universe, including our planet and all the beings within it, is constantly evolving -- expressing itself in new ways. Biological evolution is just one expression of this. The evolution of galaxies and celestial bodies are another. The evolution of human societies, technology, etc. is yet another. The evolution of our collective thoughts and behaviors is another. We can all help progress towards a more compassionate and enlightened world, starting with personal change.

To sum up, we aren't separate from this universe. We are an inextricable part of it. All of the atoms in our bodies have a history. We are "star stuff" as the late astrophysicist Carl Sagan put it, experiencing a consciousness gift. We are free to do what we want with this gift, but surely it would be best spent aiding the progression of humanity, this collection of conscious beings who hold incredible potential, towards more peace, creativity, innovation, love, all that good stuff that makes us light up inside. And all of that starts within ourselves.
~~~

lordnicklaus:
@ cloudgoddess. Don't you think genetic change is the main cause of the seeming diversity of animals of the same kind.

What is a "kind"?

Are you familiar with the biological classification system (taxonomy)?
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/hierarchy-121226000700-phpapp01/95/hierarchy-of-classification-groups-biology-2-638.jpg?cb=1356492805
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5240dde2e4b00424461203e1/t/52536577e4b0d49865bdcc56/1381644862719/Biological-Taxonomy.jpg

Kind isn't recognized as a real category in taxonomy, because it doesn't work with the morphological and genetic evidence that reveals the relationships between different groups of organisms. The word kind is only used in creationist lexicon.

For those of you saying that it's not God's responsibility to stop Boko Haram or other violent oppressors, and that bad things like BH continuing to destroy lives can't be attributed to God, then why do you (Christians/theists) attribute the good things that happen to you (even the tiny things) to him?

If it isn't God's job to jump in and make things better for us just because we asked him (ignoring the fact that he blatantly promises he will in the bible), then why do you give him the credit for things like waking you up each morning, giving you a good job, helping you find your keys when you're rushing?

God can be doing small small favors like that yet he can't even take down serious threats like Boko Haram, who have killed thousands of innocent people to date? Innocent people who pray to him daily?

But he can help you find your wallet though.

lordnicklaus:
Lol!!!! And the "non-existent" God also cries. Bros eh!! Something wey no exist, no fit cry na. Guy, you're just wavering and wagering. And you plainly told someone "he should go to school" yet you've just displayed a character intrinsic to illiteracy and mediocrity. I think it's high time you knew that all the tantrums, insults and bruhahas thrown at God doesn't move Him one bit. So, you have just typed in vain and your rage has no effect on Him. My Oga at the top is probably looking at you from His throne and laughing.

Where is the "top"? Where is this throne located.

You don't think some Christian parents would disown their child for leaving Christianity? Especially in Nigeria?

Presbulg:



Nonsense

Sorry that you're upset Doesn't change reality though...

honourhim:
your father is human who is subject to change.Things about him are temporary God is eternal and not subject to change. Things about him are not temporary. Thats why his wrath will be experienced by unrepentant sinners at last forever just as his love and kindness will be experienced by the righteous (repentant sinners) at last forever.

There is nothing any of us can do about it. The nature of God does not permit change. By this i mean there is no way any of God's characteristics(love, wrath, mercy, Jealous etc.) can be expunged from him. Each of these attributes must eternally manifest accordingly.

There is no place in the bible where God claimed to be all loving as some people here are positing..God made both his loving nature and his wrath clear for us in the bible. he never pretended about his nature. Only the evil minded ones here are deceiving themselves and trying hard to convince us of what God is not.

The best we can do is to follow the escape route he provided for us. Thinnking about hellfire and trying to judge God whether he is right or wrong cannot change the situation neither is it an escape route. Dont be deceived bro.

Damń. It must really suck to live each day believing such horrible things. How can you not see that these beliefs have you trapped in a psychological cage?

yougosee:
Never.
And I know you have never read THAT which you are now so easily passing judgement on, except for maybe a few verses(..?) which, you may never have known had IT not graciously come by your way through other people.

Sure I've read it. Didn't love all the rape and baby-killing God directed, seemed pretty asshole-ish.