₦airaland Forum

malvisguy212:
Did he force you to open the door ? IF you don't open the door, you will die, that a condition.

So because there is a condition, then by definition the love being offered is conditional. Do you understand?

malvisguy212:
YES, the door is open for EVERYONE, including you.

“Behold! I stand at the door and knock. IF
any man hears my voice and opens the
door, I will come in and dine with him, and
he with me.” ( Revelation 3:20 NIV)

Their is something you need to understand here, the word "IF" imply it is a decision you need to make,and this decision must comes from your heart, it is NOT by force." If anyone here my voice" why did jesus say this ? Because He leaves it up to us whether to open the door and invite Him in or not, this invitation is open to EVERYONE, ALL religious people.

“He came into the very world He created,
but the world didn’t recognize Him. He came
to his own people, and even they rejected
Him. But to all who believed Him and
accepted Him, He gave the right to become
children of God.” John 1:10-12

The reason jesus knock at your door, He came for the relationship.

Any "if" signifies a condition.

malvisguy212:
Romans 5:8New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in
this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for
us.

Do people who don't believe in Yahweh or the divinity of Christ recieve this love? Not just atheists, but people of other religions that do not subscribe to the bible's description of god?

Such a good thread.

One of the many questions leading up to my atheism was, "If heaven is truly the way its described in the bible.... would I even want to go there?" I couldn't help but to see it as absolutely unappealing, and clearly fabricated by men of very simplistic & materialistic desires (like golden roads. and infinite life even if it means spending eternity as a chanting zombie).

ifenes:
I have heard Christians several times screaming "fear god". OP should start from there. Fear is negative and is as a result of misinformation. All Christians are under fear of Satan and Hell fire based on the lies told by pastors.

Exactly what I was thinking. Fear is the lifeblood of Christianity.

Jesus, if he ever existed, was most likely a regular Jewish man with followers who overexagerated, or even fabricated stories about his life.

ifenes:
Unconditional love means loving without condition. It simply implies the absence of judgement and punishment. It also implies being capable of allowing people we love make decisions which opposes our views without judging them. These kind of love is absent in Christianity.

Yep, and Islam.

I'm confused about why this thread exists. It looks like Muslims trying to point fingers at Christians when their doctrines are both flawed in the same way. It's clear that neither Yahweh or Allah display unconditional love. The "love" (if you can even call it that honestly) that both god characters offer is blatantly conditional, and that condition is "worship me, and only me, until you die".

winner01:
By whose moral standards? Yours? .. A pitiless unplanned bag of matter?
Ok. I wanted to recognize that fact but then i saw these quotes below. And it occurred to me that you are either a liar, a God-hater or a revenge seeking determined individual.











You mean people can consistently dedicate each day of their lives to cursing a storybook character e.g spiderman? and not believe in spiderman? I think not.
I know one thing for sure. I dont waste my time and life on non-existent superheroes. @ bolded, is that the latest adj. used by the scientific evolutionary community to qualify "deluded" christians??

By the standards of any non-sociopathic modern human being, actually.

It isn't that difficult to see that throwing infants against rocks, drowning millions of innocent people and animals, and selling young girls into slavery, are not compassionate acts. Unless one is a sociopath, brainwashed/indoctrinated (like ISIS & Boko Haram), or raised around the year 5 B.C. (like the people who wrote the bible).

How do those quotes contradict my explanation? I was still referring to the concept/character in every instance. Sorry for not including "*the concept of* God" every single time. But in many of my posts I do make that distinction.

winner01:
I 'on know exactly. But its definately not the same thing that motivates you to express your rage for a "Non-existent" God or better put- for a God you hope does not exist.

The concept of the Abrahamic God as he is described in the Hebrew bible is what is abhorrent. The fact that people worship such an idea is disturbing. Recognize that it's ideas that are under criticism here.

In other words, people can point out the flaws in the traits of storybook characters without believing in the actual existence of said characters.

But I think you know this already and are just acting intentionally clueless. It's really not a hard thing to grasp.

winner01:
How do you know if i am happy or joyous. Who told you rage benefits me? You have been replying like a 2-year old since this thread was opened, are you sure you're okay??

So then what exactly was your motivation for making this thread?

ikbnice:
this is the chief reason why some religions banned education and most of the religions frown at free-thought.

ValentineMary:
Nice post cloudgoddess. Modern knowledge has made us see the foolishness of what we once thought wise. People even believe that dream is the journey of the soul (they told me this a lot while a christian) but modern science has shown that it is just an interaction between our conscious, unconscious and sub conscious mind. That's why a man born blind can never have a dream of using his sight. We can only dream of the use the senses active or once active.

Yep. Education opens up doors of thought that are practically soldered shut for an indoctrinated mind. It stops being surprising that some theists think what they do, given how little many of them actually know about modern science. Not because they are unintelligent -- our brains are all full of incredible potential granted they are healthy -- but because the indoctrination itself acts like a mental brick wall, defending against any knowledge that may conflict with their pre-existing religious ideas.

Thank you Valentine and thanks for the nice input! Our brains are truly incredible sensory integration machines. The psychology behind dreams is very fascinating to me, I intend to look into it more

lepasharon:
OP I guess you don't believe in ghosts then

Personally I don't. But it doesn't bother me if people do unless they claim they can talk to them & relay messages from the dead to the living. To me that can be just as manipulative & deceitful as the pastors who take money in exchange for "faith healing" and whatnot.

malvisguy212:
you're the ignorance one here, the internet, nairaland precisely has a big influence in your atheism, if not for nairaland, I believe many of you would not be an atheist. Many of you will deny it, but you know its true.

@op, if you're not a soul, then you are just one piece of rock, you're not a moral agent, if you do evil, you are just dancing to the molecule of your brain. Intelligent atheist indeed.

The first part of this message is quite childish, and as a matter of fact I was an atheist before finding NL. Everything else I have to say about that was already addressed by PastorAIO (thanks!) so I'll skip it.

No, I am not a rock. What is with this weird, very childlike dichotomous thinking with you guys? I'm still a living being, with emotions and needs and desires... who benefits from meaningful relationships with other people, who wants to make a difference in the world, who feels pleasant when I'm kind to others, etc. And I know it pains you deeply to hear this, but I don't need any unsubstantiated superstitions to be that way. No one does. So there ya go

Kay17:
Language is a vehicle for thought. It will be misleading to forget the purpose of language and employ language for purposes it is not suited for. An analysis grounded basically on the use of language without attempting to find the idea or thought language itself is trying to convey is self defeating.

Back to Evil, it is irrelevant whether it is a noun or an adjective or whatever. Language attempts to mirror the reality of Evil which we must admit is difficult to express.

Evil for me goes beyond harm and is an intrusion into my system of values. For example cowardice or rape. While misfortune or accidents or natural disasters are not evil to me inspite of their harm because they are situations/opportunities where the best characters shine brightest.

That's not what I was doing at all. The noun evil (ex. "That person is possessed by evil" ) and the adjective evil (as synonymous with bad, wrong, unjust, inhumane, ex. "That was an evil deed." ) describe two different ideas. The noun is used to describe some hidden force or entity which is the source of bad things humans do or think. That is what I'm saying is nonexistent.

malvisguy212:
alright, you are an atheist, right ? And you believe evil exist, and can be created, right ? I return the question to you, the viewer has read my explanation. Let us hear from an atheist, how does evil came into being ? Since you beileve, evil is created, who create it ? Thank you.

Sorry to butt in but I thought I'd try and answer this.

Evil isn't a "thing" in and of itself. It isn't some independent, invisible force or substance that infects and controls people. Evil only truly exists in an adjective sense. Actions can be evil, if they are intentionally taken to cause harm. Thoughts can be considered evil, if they contain hatred and spite. Evil actions are caused by evil thoughts, and evil thoughts can be caused by all manner of factors in a persons life. Egos gone haywire, obsession, hatred, or depression spiraling out of control. Even brain damage can cause a person to become hateful and want to kill.

So to sum up, "evil", as a noun, is a thing of myth. There are only humans, with thoughts or actions that can be evaluated as being evil (adjective), due to the harm they cause or intend.

The existence of a soul is a belief held by most religions. The concept was born from early mythology, as the animating force within all living beings (soul, "anima", animate) thought to depart upon death to an eternal, unseen realm. After Christianity arose, the immortal soul became a trait exclusive to humans, perhaps due to the doctrine that humans are superior to animals in the eyes of Yahweh.

In addition to being the reason we are moving and alive, the soul is thought to contain what we think of as "us". Our personality, our deepest desires, our loves and dislikes and thoughts (people who have 'wrong' or 'evil' thoughts are said to have impure souls). Our souls are the essence behind the way we feel, think, and behave.

But wait a minute.

Fast forward to the year 2016. Since the time the idea of a soul was first conceived over five thousand years ago, we have amazingly discovered the source of every form of movement in the human body. Chemicals & electricity. A rather complex dance of chemical messengers in our nervous systems (seratonin, dopamine..) interacting with those in our muscular systems (calcium, ATP..) and producing ion-charged action potentials, which move our muscles.

At this point it might be tempting to yell, "but the soul is what's MAKING all that stuff happen!!"

But if that were the case, why is it that we can artificially remove or add certain chemicals, and thereby terminate or induce movement in the body? When a person inhales a paralyzing gas like sarine or cyanide, all muscular activity comes to a halt. Ask yourself, what role is the soul playing here? Are we able to use chemicals to stop the soul from moving our bodies? Are parts of the soul being deactivated or even destroyed when we use chemicals to stop movement?

And as for the soul as the source or container of our personalities. A person with kind thoughts has a kind, pure soul, and a person with hatred and lust in their mind has a dirty, impure soul. The quality of your soul (the beliefs & thoughts within it) will be evaluated on judgment day.

...But that doesn't quite add up either.

In addition to knowing what causes movement, we also now know that all thinking and behavior has neurological origins. Groups of neurons, which we have billions of, connect together in web-like patterns, which grow stronger and more closely associated the more they are activated. In other words, your habitual thoughts, emotions, urges, behaviors, likes, dislikes, etc, are physically present in your brain in the form of neural networks. Also, many aspects of your personality, contained within these networks, can be permanently altered by the ongoing use of drugs.

Another interesting phenomenon to look at, is personality research on split-brain patients. There have been experiments and observations showing that people who have had their corpus callosum severed (the mass of nerves in the center of the brain that connects the two cerebral hemispheres), can exhibit two drastically different personalities.

Once the specialized clump of neurons responsible for integrating our two hemispheres is cut in two, each half of the brain can maintain it's own habitual thoughts and even beliefs. If one half of a person's brain professes belief in Yahweh, and the other half is atheist or even Hindu, does only half of the soul go to hell? Did the soul split into two during the split-brain surgery?

How does a soul make sense?

ayoku777:
How about "according to what bible said" and not "according to those who subscribe"?

Because according to the bible you're wrong. That's why its good to get your opinion directly from the scriptures and not from people's opinion.

Jesus Christ has a God and Father -Yahweh;

John 20v17 -Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; AND TO MY GOD, and your God.

Someone He prays to and obeys;

Phil 2v8 -8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and BECAME OBEDIENT unto (the point of) death, even the death of the cross.

Someone He can be tempted to disobey (but He never did);

Matthew 4v8 -Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9  And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10  Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord (Yahweh) thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Jesus is in heaven now, seated at the right hand of Yahweh. Can Jesus be seated at His own right hand; if He is also Yahweh? No! He is at the right of His God and Father.

Acts 7v55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Jesus is also in heaven now, interceeding for us. Who is He praying to? It can't be Himself. It is to His Father and God, Yahweh.

Romans 8v34 -Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR US.

I can go on and on, to show you more scriptures that make clear that Yeshua is not Yahweh. They are two different persons.

Jesus is God, but He Himself has someone He calls "My God". Jesus is not the Most High God. It is Yahweh, His Father and God. And only Yahweh cannot be tempted.

Shalom

Ok. There are millions of Christians who subscribe to Holy Trinity. Maybe you should alert them that they're wrong.

You probably haven't noticed but the bible can be used to support an unlimited number of diverse positions, due to it's disorganized and contradictory nature. That's why there are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity who all think they're correct. I don't see yours as any different.

ClitRaider:
So your saying atheists actually feels and thinks the same way?!
Why not tell us how you are feeling instead of forming lazy on another's atheist expressions?

My feeling towards atheism is my own, i see you guys as confused sets of lazylots, i don't need anybody's post to tell me same or othewise.
Meanwhile, other theists may think differently bout y'all but the most important thing is that theist don't think the same way like atheists does.

Why not tell us how you feel as an atheist without the OP's post. Do you feel, abused, embarrased, amazing or thretened?!

To generallize is to be an eediot.

Not all atheists share the exact same views on everything obviously. But the OP's list sums up some common annoyances that many of us understandibly share. Like being intentionally misunderstood & name-called by theists, as you appear to enjoy doing.

By reading the list with an open mind, you could come to understand our position better and challenge your pre-existing biases towards us. But you obviously don't care to do that, so feel free to carry on with your senseless hatred & willful ignorance.

ClitRaider:
It has everything to do with the topic cos being an atheist is hell.
Stop deluding yourself.
Meanwhile, why you typing like a kid?
Smh

Please realize that all you're doing is spouting baseless assumptions from a limited and extremely biased perspective. The purpose of the original post is so that theists who are ignorant about atheism can learn more about how atheists actually feel and think. Try to read it without the sole intent to dismiss it, and you might learn something.

ayoku777:
Is Jesus Yahweh?

Yes, according to those who subscribe to the holy trinity doctrine.

ayoku777:
No, God cannot be tempted. Because temptation is the enticement to disobey God. God cannot disobey Himself, He can't be enticed to disobey Himself. So God cannot be tempted.

James 1v13 -Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

It is only Yahweh that the logic of temptation does not apply to. Because He cannot disobey Himself. But we can disobey God. Being made in the image of God does not make us Yahweh.

Shalom

Wasn't Jesus tempted?

kingmexy1997:
All this so-called atheist,I pray you guys understand and get back to God, imagine after everything you realise that you have been deceived and see yourself going to hell,am not trying to condemn you guys,me as a Christian am not the best so you guys should think about this things and ask God for forgiveness, There is not much time my guys rapture is real
Hell is real
Heaven is real
The devil even knows of that Lucifer was once an angel even now his evil,he still believes in God and knows that he is doomed but is looking for who to deceive......

Prove it.

Prove that all of these things are anything other than 1st century superstitions drilled into human minds throughout the ages, via mass indoctrination, groupthink, cognitive bias, fear, and various other forms of psychological trickery.

And just in case you're tempted to quote more verses, the bible doesnt count as proof. Because any person can write a book and claim its contents are the work of supernatural beings. The Hindus, Shintos, Muslims, Jains, Pagans (ad infinitum for all the 3,000+ religions that have ever existed) have done it too.

AgentOfAllah:
Dear lady cloudgoddess, I have been summoned because, apparently, I am to care that you "appealZ to authority in your arguments". So, allow me to appeal to you to stop all these authoritarian appeals.

In keeping with the theme of appeals, I should also take this opportunity to appeal to Uyiredia and his fellow cheerleader, Ebuka (♫♩♪ When I need motivation...♫♩♪), to be a little less trusting of commonsense. Throughout history, science has challenged and trashed many commonsensical notions without apology, as the following examples will demonstrate:

1) In his ground breaking work on gravitational acceleration being independent of mass, Galileo proved the untrustworthiness of commonsense against the teachings of Aristotle.

2) Max Planck proved it against his own wishes when he solved the UV catastrophe, by quantizing the energy states of oscillators.

3) Einstein and Schrodinger proved it against the demon cat that was both dead and alive (just kidding)...but they proved it against the wishes of the great champs of classical physics, including unfortunately, Einstein himself, who spent his last living years trying to refute the far reaching implications of his work on light. His last years, a cruel irony in that he died in the dark of his own light!

It is evident in these examples, that commonsense, which is just an euphemism for cognitive bias, must never be allowed to sully rational thoughts.

*End of appeal*

Haha, brilliant.

"Commonsense, which is just an euphemism for cognitive bias...". These words couldn't ring truer. Common sense is essentially "what appears to be so" via the lenses of our own prior conditioning.

That's why external converging evidence is so necessary. Without it all we really have are opinions & conjecture posing as reality.

UyiIredia:
It's your problem if you wanna remain the fool.

Have you tried contacting some of the evolutionary biology researchers at Berkley and Yale (and Harvard and Cambridge etc etc etc...) alerting them that they're fools? I'm sure they'd love to hear your discoveries that have disproven evolution.

Good question

UyiIredia:
Lemme make it crystal clear to you. Random mutations cannot make any thing. NOTHING. So it cannot be relied on to produce new features that are selected for. It is irrational to attribute design to a series of accidents. Hence, your precious theory is messed up and does not actually tell us how life came to be.

Saying the same wrong thing over and over won't make it true. Really. Mutations can indeed be beneficial and a sufficient proportion of beneficial mutations occur to drive adaptation and speciation. You would benefit immensely from the learning resources I posted.

Efewestern:
Yea.. but that doesn't mean God doesn't exist... I don't do religious shiit... but i can Proclaim the existence of God any time any Day.. unlike you atheist who deny he exist.

Am a Christian thou, but i don't believe in poo easily, just living a Good life, Helping those around me and Asking God for Directions.. Such is life bro...

The issue with claiming a god exists without claiming a religion is that no objective observer can know which god you are referring to, what his/her/its qualities are, and what he/she/it wants from us humans, if anything.

You see, there have been thousands of gods claimed by humans throughout history (some sources say around 4,000), each with its own supposed attributes & deeds. A Pagan god, Hindu god, or Shinto god does not share the same creation story, supposed appearance, relationship to humans, or personality traits, as the god described in the Jewish bible & the Christian religion specifically. Some people who believe in a god even say that "god" is simply the energy that drives nature.

So if you want to assert that a god exists, you must first decide which one (dictated by a religion), and then you must explain why you chose that one over the other 3,999.

Amberon11:
very well said.

If you have a conflicting view don't quote me in your oblivion.

Passive aggressive, much? And if you don't want your posts responded to then don't post on a public forum.

OP, Human beings came into existence the same way as all other presently living organisms. Via the process of evolution. I've made a thread on this topic, which is but a short introduction. Below it is a good quality thread by another nairalander that introduces the topic via a simple thought experiment.
https://www.nairaland.com/2914888/much-needed-explanation-evolution
https://www.nairaland.com/2806737/simplified-layman-explanation-basic-ideas

Here are also two of my favorite youtube videos describing it in a very easy to understand way, with illustrations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhHOjC4oxh8

Here are also some science sites that are again easy to understand for laymen. The one on the bottom is an interactive documentary that's rather beautifully put together.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php
http://www.becominghuman.org/node/interactive-documentary

Masturbation is natural. It's a primal act. Even children are sometimes caught masturbating. Religion has an unnecessary preoccupation with what humans do with their genitals. By creating shame and wahala around natural urges, religion effectively traps the minds of people in fear of their own bodies. It's pretty ridiculous.

There have been books written on the harmful effects religion has on people's mentalities about sex, their bodies, & their love lives. Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality by Darrel Ray is very informative and thorough.

Link:
https://www.amazon.com/Sex-God-Religion-Distorts-Sexuality/dp/0970950543?ie=UTF8&

Notice that the responses from theists so far have mostly fallen into the following three categories:

1. False persecution complex. "Why are you angry mean atheists attacking Christianity, we didn't do anything!" Basically a tactic to divert the conversation and avoid or discourage any criticisms of their beliefs.

And it ignores the tremendous impact that Christian agendas have not only in Nigeria but worldwide. If any other institution was so powerful, and a small group of people uncovered it as a fraud, it would only be natural for them to be vocal about it in hopes to enlighten the masses.

Also, no atheist is calling for the forceful extermination of religion. We're calling for the opening of minds. Critical thinking. The thousands of ex-Christians and ex-Muslims that are made every year walk out willingly when they realize the falsehoods of religion. No one puts a gun to their head (or threatens them with ideas like eternal punishment).

2. Blatant insults targeting the characters of atheists as people. Another diversion tactic, as well as a rather elementary defense mechanism. And as I've pointed out in prior posts, there is a considerable amount of research that points to humanists & secular societies actually being more peaceful, more innovative, and less tribalistic. So said insults are not just petty but completely unfounded.

3. Played out apologetics. The same tired excuses theists use again and again to try & defend the indefensible. Sounding eerily like victims of domestic abuse, making all sorts of excuses to defend their abuser which appear clearly inadequate to outsiders looking in, but totally valid to those still within the abuser's mind control.

There is a limited number of arguments & apologetics a theist can put forward before they're uncovered as empty again and again. When that happens, all that's left for the theist to resort to are insults & deflections.

OP this is a great thread and your arguments are straightforward & hard hitting. Keep it up.