₦airaland Forum

tunnytox:
These days many pastors have devised several means of compelling their members to pay tithe, they'll do special prayers for their tithe payers while reiterating that for those members who don't pay it is the reason why things are tight for them. Its the same pastors that'll be riding jeep, live in luxury while church members struggle to even afford 3 square meals.

Guardian writers' prediction: 5th

Last season's position: 4th

Odds to win the league: 9-1

First the good news. Jack Wilshere seems perfectly happy to play for Arsenal. Thomas Vermaelen looks ready to resume a promising career for the club after a season blanked out by injury. Gervinho might prove to be another classic Arsène Wenger bargain, an athletic and pacy ball player raring to step up a level, spirited over from France for a fee that doesn't make a certain manager with a well-documented devotion to cautious housekeeping choke as if he was asked to fix the Greek economy before breakfast.

Unfortunately at this point the scales lurch with a foreboding clang towards the less good news, the downright depressing news and the bewildering lack of news in critical areas that have made this the most pessimistic close season for Arsenal in decades.
For some years now summertime has merely represented a mix of dread about the best players being picked off, together with frustration that the handful of ambitious signings required to turn potential into the real deal never came. But few really expected, or even asked for, a radical overhaul.

Until now.

This summer was always going to feel different. For a start, patience wore down to breaking point as the 2010-11 campaign imploded in a way that was as miserable as it was predictable. Why are the lessons never learned? Arsenal were mauled like a pretty animal in a David Attenborough documentary that ends up as dinner to even the rangiest of scavengers. To make matters worse their fate was largely self-inflicted as they made traps for themselves to fall into (witness the fiasco against Birmingham City in the Carling Cup final).

So much goodwill in the bank from Wenger's past successes has been raided. Also, for the first time, it became obvious that some players had lost belief in the manager's philosophy. The atmosphere in the dressing room became increasingly bitter during a run of two wins from their last 12 league matches post-Carling Cup final. They knew, with even more clarity than any fan or pundit, that this youth project, for all its valiant idealism, has profound failings.

The other fundamental difference about this summer is the new scene at board level, with Stan Kroenke's takeover and Alisher Usmanov's increased shareholding suggesting that something somewhere would be adjusted in terms of the club's direction. But so far, the only thing to be altered is ticket prices, hiked with timing perfect in its clunkiness.

Even though there was never much chance of Wenger departing, this summer required major surgery in all departments to lift the mood. Experienced players are a necessity. Dead wood needs binning. A change in both the coaching staff and ideals can refresh an approach that is too feeble, too flawed, to last the distance (Patrick Vieira and Dennis Bergkamp's new roles elsewhere look like an opportunity missed, and while the competition are signing up the likes of Steve Clarke and Roberto Di Matteo as assistants, Pat Rice was talked out of retirement to prolong the status quo).

Wenger doesn't want to practice defending? Fine, so long as you bring someone in who will. The squad players not up to the task when the going gets tough? Fine, so bid au revoir to Manuel Almunia, Emmanuel Eboué, Sébastien Squillaci, Carlos Vela etc.

Some have departed, and others have flashing "for sale" signs attached, but Arsenal have not yet been as aggressive and decisive in the market as suggested by the promise from Wenger that they would be "very active". There is still a lot to do, with, astonishingly, the defence barely touched thus far. Where is the new robust centre-half, the experienced left-back to replace Gaël Clichy, the alternative to Alex Song in defensive midfield and the goalkeeper to prevent any more sightings of Almunia if injury strikes again?

The lack of arrivals is presumably linked to the demoralising sagas concerning the futures of Cesc Fábregas and Samir Nasri. But a "very active" window was needed regardless. Waiting for last-day bargains, as Arsenal tend to do, doesn't seem like a brilliant idea. Could be a bit late by then.
August brings meetings with Liverpool and Manchester United, plus a crucial Champions League play-off and a trip which is bound to remind them of all their worst foibles, to Newcastle United, where last term the good, the bad and the hideous of Arsenal morphed into one extraordinary game.

Arsenal remain in an elite group who have qualified for the Champions League for 14 successive seasons, and they have managed it with the "sustainable business model" that operates at a fraction of the outlay of their competitors. It is admirable. But with the big four now potentially a big six, it may not be workable for much longer.

Without a shaken-up squad, the only other source for change is at the training ground if the will and wherewithal is there. Andrey Arshavin has suggested they have been working on set pieces and a more intense pressing game during pre-season. Notably Arsenal's most impressive performances of last season, wins against Chelsea, Manchester United and Barcelona, showed how energetic pressing, rather than languid passing, reaps rewards. Equally notably, that approach didn't transmit to less interesting challenges. It remains to be seen whether Wenger can inspire enough of a change, whether a few alterations here and there is enough.

Last season Wenger asked people to judge him in May. This time, judgement might come as early as September

dare2think:
@ cooger
Perhaps, you have a crystal ball to know they are not stealing

ogajim:
This "coogar" dudee is an interesting piece of work it seems, typical Nigerian this and typical Nigerian  that, suit your self, I am not even sure i have spent up to three Months total in Nigeria in the last 22 years, but that's not the reason I decided to contribute to this piece.

Your dismissive attitude must really be full of "Christian values", "by their fruit ye shall know them, "?
Fela dealt with these kinds of stuff in "coffin for head of state & suffering and smiling" but you're probably too "young" to appreciate his whole body of work.

You guys use "pre Covenant Abram's" tithe, Malachi, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc referenced tithes and can go ahead and "pay" all you want "to receive all the blessings" (investment banking to some) but some of us know our God doesn't live in Temples made with human hands and that "where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there"

Let me just educate you about the German "religious tax", they only deduct that from you if you declared Christianity as your religion, and I remember folks claiming "frei denker" so as to escape that because they believe the Church take and take but that's a story for another forum,

The so called "successful Pastors" in Nigeria today would qualify for the rich man Christ told to sell all his belongings and give to the poor to follow him, Faith without works is DEAD, Nigerians should all be "prosperous" now with all those "claim it" abracadabra shows, God gave us a SIMPLE way to worship him--with all out heart and with all our SOUL,

You can't pay your way into Heaven(at least not the one I know of)

Shalom.

dare2think:
Who am I to complain?

I am an Individual with a voice and one that understands that I have a right to my Opinion

I am one who picks up the bible myself and get my own understand of it's meaning and not someone else's agenda.

I am one that decided to read Deut 14: 22 to 29 myself and understands how God indicated  how tithing should be done, and not listen to a Greedy person feeding on the ignorance of innocent people.

I am an Individual with my own mind. That's who I am.

Ibime:
The ninja lost all his pace after his knee injuries. . . good deal. . . since we have found new maga, we should also offer them "experienced International-class Portuguese defender" Ferreira for £10m

dare2think:
^^^^^^
I agree with the majority of your reply.
But why is it not my battle to fight?

Indirectly, you are saying look the other way.
Believe me,  that is what fraudulent people thrive on.  I have every right to voice my opinion and you have every right to oppose it.

So, whose battle is it?  God wont come down to right any wrong.  Was it God that halted Hitler himself, or did people fight and defeat him. (Basically, what am saying is that you can't sit down and hope for God to fight your battles without making an effort) . In developed countries, they did things themsleves and brought about their own development, and did not wait for God. That does not say God did not give them the intelligence. (My opinion)

dare2think:
You actually did not answer my question.
While I agree with your statement about the wrong perception attributed to doing well,  you might also add that it is the very same Nigerians that abused their positions of power that causes that attribution.

It is wrong to manipulate the Bible to enrich yourself whilst deceiving others- It is called Fraud.   Tithing is a personal thing and should be left to the individual. But most folks against it here are practicalyl against the "Men of God" that abuses that privilegde

You can choose to keep quiet about the mis-hap going on in Christianity or Religion, but dont expect others to. Also, dont resort to insults or degoratory remarks because  people hold different views to yours. It's a vast world and nobody knows it all (Including "mEN OF gOD"

Corrution is corruption wether is in the house of paliarment or the house of God. Choosing to ignore it does not make you holier either

dare2think:
I hope you are aware that you too might sound like a "hilli-billy" to someone on this forum.

nlMediator:
Smart man,
I understood your point perfectly. If Americans do not pay tithes, it does not occur to you one bit that some of them would be out of an unwillingness to do so – not because they’re poor. Isn’t it silly to assume that American Christians refuse to tithe because they are poor, when the vast majority of them are richer than Nigerian Christians including jokes like you that come here to make empty noises.

Evidently, you know why American christians do not tithe, even though you probably have not met any. Have you ever visited or lived in the US or been to any US church? If you are not as idiotic as you sound, you’d check through the net and see Americans complain a lot about tithing. And if you step into some American churches, you’d hear the pastors addressing some of these complaints. But typical Nigerian that you are, you can claim to be an intellectual with nothing to back it up. Barely literate intellectual!

And I never complained about tithing. I only corrected your inaccurate assertion.

dare2think:
@ Cooger

" The Tithes belong to the welfare of the pastor and the Church"

Says who?

By the way, the ability to conjure insults does not make you cool or gives you an articulated leverage in debates.

It only makes you sound very immature.

nlMediator:
I think you’re the one writing out of ignorance. You have no basis for your claim that it is only in Nigeria that Christians complain about tithing. How many countries have you been to and how many materials have you read about Christians in other countries? In the US, for instance, only a small portion – roughly 6% - of American Christians pay their tithes. Everybody should feel free to pay their tithes. But basing tithing on false premises or inaccurate claims does nobody any good.

For those interested in statistics on tithing in America, this link may help.

http://library.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=28&page=223

dare2think:
How is their opinion satanic?.(Just because it is different from yours).
You sound very bigoted.

So, if your Pastor is evidently squandering the congregation funds people should turn a blind eye and leave him to God? And you wonder why Nigeria is in this state?
If you dont't fight corruption (even in Churches), you think God will come down and do it for you? When was the Last time God came down to fight Human battles for them ?

KAYD007:
@ cooger

If we cannot frown at what the pastors seems to do with the tithes,
why are you fervently one of those that would condemn our politicians
when they misapplied or misappropriate public funds in their care?

Who is the hypocrite here?  damit

femi4:
Whenever money is being mentioned,they want to turn the scripture upside down.Its not by force that you should pay,but dont force your opinion on those that pay cos its between them and God.Likewise, whether the tithe is use judiciously or not is non of your biz cos its between the pastors and their maker

ogajim:
Dude has got to be a pastor or an aspiring one!

In your previous post you mentioned having been to Countries that don't complain about tithe, Care to "educate" us about those countries? We would certainly like to know where those Countries are because people don't pay tithe in Germany-the home country of Martin Luther himself the father of the Protestant movement, so come on.

Febup:
If every worker and farmer should start paying thier tithes regularly in Nigeria from now on the nation will even be worse than it is today, why because they will not look after the poor and needy, instead the pastors will all have fleets of private jets and their own runways in their backyard.

The nations that are blessed today are the ones that looks after the poor and needy in their in their society, which is the new commandment jesus has given us.

Febup:
Deuteronomy 14: 24-26 King James Bible
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

One question I keep asking here is why did God not ask for the money after the tithes have been exchanged for money. To me this shows that God does not want tithes from income, but why almost all churches collect tithes from income today is a mistery

Leviticus 27:30
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

There is no tithe from income in the verse above.

Febup:
Malachi 3:12
12“Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

Why are we not seeing the reward of tithing in Malachi 3:12 on Nigeria with all the Churches that collect tithes why is Nigeria still the way it is today
Tithe payers and collectors are always saying they are blessed, Malachi 3:12 says tithing should bless the nation not just individuals.

AjanleKoko:
Cool down jare.
Na friendly. No getting ahead of yourselves.

dipo2much:
Perfect excuse for what?
Vermaelen is over-rated, u should have followed that up with 'IMO'.
Sire, could you please define 'a great season' ? The number of goals he scored alone is enough to say he had a great season

follypimpi:

I laugh in Diouf, Was it against blackburn when Diouf shoved him aside and squared the ball for sum1 to tap in last season.

dayokanu:
^^So what did your Arsenal you claimed was second after Barcelona do with their possesion after 7 trophyless years

Nope. It doesnt depend on the quality of the team, Arsenal dominates possesion whether they play Hull or Chelsea
Barca dominates possesion whether they play Almeria or Madrid
Bayern dominates possesion whether they play Nurnberg or Dortmund
Bayern played Inter Milan and had over 60% possession

The only time you get unstuck is when you play a team who has perfected the possesion game better
The percentages you posted still shows that Bayern is waay ahead of Arsenal

dayokanu:
Per the link, that was why I told you to look at it closely.
Didnt you notice that those clubs ahead of Bayern went further in the competition.

The average is what matters not the total
Who sleeps more, one that does 63hrs in 3 days or one that does 100 hrs in one week

dayokanu:
See UEFA possesion stats for yourself. Look at it carefully and make deductions
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/statistics/round=2000118/clubs/type=possessiontime/index.html

Count the number of times Messi has sodomised better EPL teams than Stoke.

the issue is not the crowd, it's the style of play.
Why cant Stoke use their technique to qualify for Europe CL and see how they would win the tournament.

When Barcelona didnt sacrifice players to deal with Giants like Vidic, Ferdinand etc, they would now be scared of Huth whom everyone used to mop the florr everywhere he went or Shawcross?

In Europe we have seen giants like Bobo Balde being embarassed so who is in Stoke? Delap?
When its so obvious that 90% of teams in the CL play ultra negative football vs Barca

Those kicks and shoves of Real madrid and Jose didnt stop Messi from scoring a double

Which Torres the 50m for 1 goal Torres?

debosky:
Did anyone notice Traore's competent performance? He hardly put a foot wrong all game, and wasn't easily forced off the ball.

pendo89:
lol while you were away,something happened.

dayokanu:
In Europe the closest hing to barcelona in terms of possesion football is Bayern only that we dont have the talent at barcas disposal.

Both teams are built on Louis van Gaal philosophy.

Has Rooney ever tried playing with Bilbao in the middle of the Basque, Has he ever had to deal with Palermo  or Catania in the Ultra infested Sicily

If Messi can do it in colder Russia vs Kiev, Rubin Kazan etc who is Stoke

ritchboy:
The physicality of the EPL is overrated.

pendo89:
did smbody ask me for my email.?