₦airaland Forum

PhysicsQED: It's a weak song (music-wise) and his flow on it is weak - maybe that's because of how he was trying to fit all those multi's to that particular beat?

He raps the lyrics too slow and there are way too many pauses in the verses on that song for me to consider it lyrically impressive.

that's eminem's best flow ever - especially that 2nd verse. the verse all through was symmetrical. he was rhyming a whole sentence with the other at a point - i have never seen such wizardry in lyricism. 1000 nasir jones cannot come up with such.

PhysicsQED: Coogar, I don't consider "Stay Wide Awake" one of Em's best by any means. In fact, both the song itself and lyrics in the song are kind of weak. Em's flow on the song is weak and the lyrics themselves are just average. I don't know what you're seeing there.

Even the new(er) rapper I mentioned in my last post above - Earl Sweatshirt - made a ('shock'-rap) song about the same revolting subject matter (which isn't something that Nas would ever rap about anyway), called "epaR," off his debut album, and that song is better than Stay Wide Awake both as a song and in terms of lyrics.

I don't really see the point of comparing a weak Eminem song to Nas's best stuff, but I guess I could compare probably the only thing I could find from Nas that has a little bit of screwed up subject matter: his verse on the song "Bravehearted" from the Bravehearts album. Nas's verse on that song is pretty good and I think it's better than any of Em's verses in Stay Wide Awake, but that's probably because I'm taking flow and delivery into account, which I don't think you are/would, if you really consider Stay Wide Awake a great song.

stay wide awake is weak? a song that was generally accepted by hip-hop fans worldwide as the best use of eminem's pen game? the verse i quoted was just a hook - it's not part of his verses. trust me, it's the best technical rap song ever waxed on record.

the flow on that song(ignore the rhymes) Is the best ever. it subdues anything i have heard from the rap pioneers. just type "2nd verse of stay wide awake" on google & see what the rap community has to say about it.

see how this dude described the song....

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/not-the-biggest-fan-in-general-but-eminem-on-stay-wide-awake-ohmy.54111/#post-1976595


my fav. joint on Relapse next to Underground. It's one of the many reasons why this nikka is my Fav. Rapper next to Nas.

I don't think a lot of nikkas understand the technicality of that 2nd verse (2:08-2:58). The man rhymed every fukking thing in that verse with a mean flow and was going back n forth between two different pov's "the victim" and "the stalker" while staying on point with the story and dialogue. nikka who else can do that on the same level?

Incredible

I'll put this song up against any popular MC's out now including my nikka Nas and none of em can hold a candle to the lyricism and flow Em had on display. The nikka completely blacked the fukk out on some "they think i fell off huh" type shyt.

disgusting

dademola: undiluted bias...

how's it undiluted?
rooney hasn't missed bigger chances in this champions league campaign? who's bothered about such? united has qualified already. if united are leading the league table with rooney missing 1 million golden chances i will not be bothered.

elampiro: Good analysis.

But Rooney played left, number 10 and I think once as number 9.

Then Drogba played 9 all through and he is an idol to Chelsea fans.

RVP also played left wing, played as a 10 & played as a centre forward. at 07/08, adebayor & eduardo were the strikers...

PhysicsQED: multisyllabic rhyming is not the be-all and end-all of lyricism in rap. There are other aspects which you guys are seriously downplaying when making comparisons.

it's the essence of lyricism.
a polysyllabic rhymer has his work cut out for him cos once he starts with a rhyme scheme, he must follow it through with similar words & make sense or punchline with it. do you know how difficult that is?

go & listen to legacy, any songwriter would tell you it's the most difficult aspect of writing. looking for words that fit & making sense with it. if not, anybody should be able to rap. i mean, i can just pick up a book & get a mic & speak fast.

PhysicsQED: lol, I don't think the lyricism can't be compared at all. I could easily compare the lyrics in Nas's "Deja Vu" (an unreleased track that was made before Illmatic) with Eminem's best stuff (although I would have to compare different styles of rap and different subject matter, so the comparison wouldn't necessarily be 1-to-1.)

bring nas' best work ever in lyricism & let's compare it to eminem's stay wide awake.


Soon as my flow starts
I compose art like the ghost of Mozart
Even though they all say that they're real
I know that most aren't
Boy you think you're clever don't ya
Girl you think you're so smart

flow starts = pose art = ghost of = mozart = most aren't = don't ya = so smart.

7 multis in 2 bars.

dademola: So cos man utd are leading dia group in d ucl, one shudnt talk abt rvp's horrible misses?? #Baba sala things on this thread#

why should it be important? the miss or not - it has not affected united's position in their group. did rooney's miss affect united's position on the league table?

elampiro: I guess even Drogba missed out of so many games abi? How many did RVP even missed?

We always dislike our own just because he has been with us.

RVP
07/08 - 1083 mins
08/09 - 2214 mins
09/10 - 1252 mins
10/11 - 1769 mins
11/12 - 3331 mins

Rooney
07/08 - 2182 mins
08/09 - 2272 mins
09/10 - 2710 mins
10/11 - 2224 mins
11/12 - 2830 mins

RVP = 9,649 mins. Rooney = 12,218 mins
almost 3,000 mins more than van persie - that's one full season of league football head start so what's the comparison?

debosky: Who led the line against Sociedad? Who missed a penalty in that game blowing a chance to win 3 points? Excuses for RVP but blame for Rooney. You are biased against the White Pele sir.

only idiöts bring champions league match into this argument. RVP's miss or not, united are still topping their group in the champions league. rooney's misses have cost us about 4 places on the league table. if we are leading the premier league table, would i freaking care about rooney's misses? no!!! there's little margin for error in the league as we speak so rooney's misses would always be highlighted. in a game we had to win, rooney failed to deliver.

Why didn't RVP score yesterday? Was it Rooney's fault too? As for the comparison, Rooney ensured England qualified in the group stage and didn't need a playoff.

Rooney>>>>>>>Ronaldo!

RVP played behind the main striker on saturday. in the games i have highlighted, rooney was the main striker. even a fowl knows there's a universe of difference. RVP created 3 open play key passes - he need not have to score. against everton, spurs & cardiff, rooney was the centre-forward.

chamotex: Yes because it is not rocket science

RVP that barely took part for arsenal in about 3 seasons is being compared to rooney that never fails to make 30 appearances. you will bow for some people's logic.

PhysicsQED: Coogar, I wasn't saying that KGR uses as many multi's as Em or some other rappers that came out after him. In fact, I think Nas usually uses more multi's. I only referenced those tracks to show that KGR isn't merely monosyllabic like you were saying in this thread. But KGR's flow is one of the best rap has seen - that's his real strength, not necessarily the number of multi's. Also, some rappers who can put a lot of multi's in their songs can't really flow the way KGR does on a track (when he's actually trying to be lyrical), while making it look effortless. The flow in verses like KGR's on "Know Da Game" and "Wishful Thinking" and many of his verses on the album 4,5,6 have been matched only by very few rappers (Pun and Nas are some examples). There are other "technical" aspects to rapping besides just the number of multis.

if KGR isn't using as many multis as eminem then why are we even comparing them? I have saluted KGR & the other old school rappers for paving the way but you cannot compare the lyricism of eminem to whatever was written in the 90s. it's incomparable & this is what i have been telling you.

this is why rakim said if eminem was black, he would be standing next to muhammad ali & that's the truth. game recognises game. rakim knows eminem's pen game has no peers. flow, delivery, multis, metaphors, humour & vocab - eminem's got it all.

dademola: d same penalty rvp cldnt convert at real soceidad, which effectively cost us the 3 points!! We cld go on and on, buh d truth is; rooney scored 3 goals in those matches wich is a return any striker wld be proud off!!

make we hear word....
the only reason fergie handed over the penalty rights to van persie was because rooney became shyte at it. up until van persie's injury, he scored against the league leaders at old trafford. he's the better finisher than rooney.

U can say he missed some chances wich, had he converted, clda won us dos matches... D same way anoda person can decide to blame d loss of points on cleverley and smalling for giving away silly goals!! 250k per week?? Noted!!

rooney missed a golden chance against cardiff. a world class striker would have converted 1 point to 3 points. he missed another golden chance against everton - another 3 points cos had he scored the all important first goal, we would have won.

that's 5 points lost under rooney's watch.

debosky: *whoosh* - that's the sound of my point going over your head. Rooney scored and assisted while the defence conceded. But genius coogar blames Rooney for everything that happens. I hope that simplification helps you.

you are a fool....
when RVP led the line last season, the defence wasn't airtight too - he just made it his personal mission to score more than the opponents. in many of the games last season, it was a comeback victory. united would go one or two down & still win the games because we had a determined striker focused to score more than the opponents are capable of...

rooney should do the same.....

Did RVP's pass accuracy stop Cabaye from strolling into the box to score?

Did Cabaye play as a 'lead striker' before scoring against United? Or was Oviedo also a 'lead striker'?

Nonsense excuses.

you are a consummate rëtard.....
as united don't have a cabaye or a tiote, the onus fell on rooney to compensate for any defensive mistake. how many midfielders scored for united last season when RVP was roaring even in rooney's absence. if you score 2, RVP will score 3. if you score 5, he scores 6. that's the mark of world class strikers. ronaldo should have blamed his defence for conceding 2 instead of scoring a hatrick against sweden away from home.

how some of you even graduate is baffling....

Dis Guy: shine your eyes!

prepare well for your KCL inteview, it's not in anyway above you!

The higher the better

i'll personally shoot adaobi in the kneecap if she doesn't get into KCL.

dademola: very outstanding performance, bro!! Assuming he didnt score any, and we managed to win all those games, u'd claim it to be evidence dt rooney isnt a goalscorer and that oda players had to do rooney's job of scoring! Rooney cant be every where! He contributed his quota by scoring against cardiff and spurs!! Let oda players do dia jobs in dia respective roles!!

pathetic performance.....
in the absence of RVP, rooney was meant to take the game by the scruff of the neck & deliver 3 points. the last chance we had after 2-2, rooney made an awful pass to welbeck when he should be tapping the ball into an empty net.

against spurs, he scored a penalty. against everton, kagawa's crafted pass went between rooney's legs from 5 yards. that should have been another tap-in into an empty net. all of a sudden, rooney can't be everywhere - was RVP not everywhere last season in the presence/absence of rooney?

debosky: Yeah - Rooney played center back, full back, goal keeper and DM positions in addition to the striker position in those games too.

rooney played centre back in games where he was the only striker on the pitch? hahahaha - your mitigating factors are laughable!!

debosky: People posting useless stats - 77% pass accuracy but no goals. Please tell me what Rooney's pass accuracy was when he scored twice against Spurs or provided assists against Leverkusen.

pass accuracy reduces the chances good opponents might get against you. they can't really hurt you without the ball, can they? 2 goals against spurs - one is a penalty kick & the other was a rare mistake from walker - what's the biggie? rooney played as the main striker in all these games, why won't he score? was RVP the lead striker on saturday? was he even fit?

I hope y'all hound him out eventually - he will find a home at the Emirates and score goals to his heart's content.

let him go to the emirates or enyimba - united won titles after better players than rooney left old trafford. who is rooney?

dademola: in these 3 matches, rooney scored 3 goals and notched an assist!!

and we won a total of 2 points in the 9 available. what an outstanding performance!!!!

peteafrik88: You said it all... I am beginning to think this guy even went to school...

with your below average intelligence quotient & poor penmanship, it's so clear you are a college drop-out.

bunch of idiöts.....
when you start flipping burgers in macdonald's, you would blame your step mother that she musta placed a curse on you.

n0m0705: You are joking right? The newcastle game was enough to answer your question. Rooney might not be good when compare to other top players in the hole, but he is definately better than rvp. Check out thees outrageous stats, if united post anything like that with rooney in the hole, heaven would have come down

what outrageous stats?
van persie was infinitely better than rooney in the hole. his 77% pass accuracy is better than rooney who had clocked 62% pass accuracy most times this season.

van persie created 3 chances(open play). his long raking pass to chicharito was the pass of the week. on another day, hernandez should be burying that. mention one league match rooney has done better.

and we are talking of a very unfit van persie moyes didn't want to play for more than 60 minutes but was forced to play 90 mins. abeg, van persie is loads better in the hole than rooney.

too many idiots on this thread i don't even know where to start. making rooney look like god as if united have not won millions of matches without rooney.

rooney played against city, west brom & everton & united lost. anyone who says rooney's presence could have won us the game against newcastle is a lethargic devil. rooney is the poison in the team.....he has done nothing in the hole. our creativity in the final third is worse than dolphins of port harcourt.

8 league goals @ old trafford with 5 of them from setpieces tells you everything about our creativity at the moment - it's next to shyte. van persie was unfit against newcastle & he didn't lead the line like rooney had done against spurs, cardiff & everton so what's the comparison?

chamotex: So in other words we lost because Rooney didn't play

that's the verdict....
except that rooney played against west brom, man city & everton and we lost but let's keep blaming everyone else apart from rooney.

elampiro: The reason why we were able to break was that he went deep to help rescue the ball or start those moves. Most times he arrived again to get the ball in the box, some other times Welbeck or another player went in for him. You saw the Welbeck penalty. You saw those goals against Leverkusen, like when he picked Valencia in the box. Rooney cannot be like RVP or Nilstelrooy or Chicha.

then he should get the fück out of the team. he slows united down. you can hardly point out to what rooney brings to the team. the only time he comes alive is during setplays.

Now, look at our Newcastle match. Newcastle were not really great on the day, but there was no play maker as RVP and Chicha had too few touches of the ball. They were waiting for Nani and Janujaz who are so individualistic to work some miracles and get the ball to them in the box. At the end no quality ball came.

how many quality balls came when we lost to everton? was rooney not on the pitch? what did he contribute?

Some would argue that RVP was not fully fit. But no one gave Rooney that excuse when he was hurried in to start the season, and when he had a deep cut on his head. He didn't make us believe he was carrying some injuries.

yes, RVP wasn't fit yesterday - that's his first game in about 2-3 weeks. he had a groin injury. rooney had a head injury. does he use his head to run for the ball or he makes 70 yards pass with his head?

During Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez, we didnt have an in box striker. It musnt always be so. Suarez and Aguero don't stay in the box.

during the era of holy trinity, fergie played 4-3-3 of rotating forwards. at city, aguero has negredo or dzeko ahead of him when he drops deep. against spurs & everton, rooney was supposed to provide the attacking focus, he did not so why compare him to suarez & aguero?

elampiro: Now you want to expand the arguement. I wont toy the line with you because we have been through them countless time.

oh please - rooney is now even worse. he plays more long passes than short passes. if he's close to his centre forward like he should be, why is he playing long passes?

You fetched a comment of Fabio Capelo. Have you been watching Rooney recently?

he's worse off - rooney never stays where you want him to be. in the absence of RVP this season, we broke so many times with no one in the box to finish off chances.

elampiro: I guess you stopped watching Rooney in Euro 2012.

that was england's last competitive tournament, why should i rate rooney's performance in needless friendlies & class-D games against san marino? 2014 world cup is only months away, we shall see his new improvement then.

All the matches he played for them enroute to Brazil (qualifiers and friendlies) go and see Rooney. Very few touches of the ball. Locked upfront with the main striker. Even against Brazil when he scored a magic goal, he was not dropping deep

i cannot rate rooney's performance based on friendly games & hapless teams in the qualifiers. rooney is like andy murray, he only performs in games that don't matter. as soon as the big stage comes for england, rooney disappears.

disgraceful outing in 2006 & 2010 world cups & a cringe-worthy performance in euro 2012. i can print out the media take on rooney's performance for england in major tournaments. the country has lost faith in him.

chamotex: How can elampiro say Rooney does not drop deep for England.
Do you watch these games or you are just deliberately trolling.

goal.com does not provide such information.

capello & fergie have both criticised rooney for his lack of discipline positionally. he made us lose in wembley against barcelona. he lost the game to italy in euro 2012 when he failed to deal with pirlo.

that was why fergie left him out against madrid, fergie had seen enough of rooney pretending to be playing in the hole while going on a walkabout during the game.

elampiro: Why does he not drop deep for England even when played as a second striker?

he drops even deeper at england - rooney is a street footballer. he's miseducated, poorly trained or he failed to take instructions cos fergie said he's a slow learner. capello spoke about this as far back as 2009 circa that rooney lacks positional discipline....

“At United, there are two forwards – (Carlos) Tevez and Rooney – and that works. After my first two games I know enough about Rooney.

“He is so versatile and has played left wing, right wing and centre-forward. I have spoken to him three times and told him he is too generous and tries to do too much.

“I want him to be more selfish because when he arrives near goal he is tired and not fresh. It is important for him to be fresh when he is scoring. Rooney’s potential is very big and we will see much more in the future.

“He has to score more goals and stay in front of goal. I have told him this.

elampiro: You have forgotten he was at the heart of all the successes?

he wasn't - he contributed nothing to the champions league & united have won plenty of titles without rooney. ronaldo was the heart between 06/07 to 08/09. berbatov/hernandez in 10/11 & van persie last season.

You don't need accurate passes to win games. If he passes correctly 79 over 100, I will prefer him to a player who passes only 31 over 35. It means the low touches makes the other guy idle.

and you were the one praising everton's ability to retain the ball about 2 hours ago. all of a sudden, you don't need to pass accurately to win games. so what had rooney's lack of accuracy given us this season in the absence of van persie? 9th position!!!!

elampiro: Rooney bottom level is because of the kind of players surrounding him.

He is forced to drop deep to get the ball and when he looks up, no one to pass to sef. You can see how Kagawa who is a magnificient passer is made to look like a fool in Man United.

These are the things Rooney saw that he wanted to run away. SAF refusal to bring in qaulity players. Look at the way Everton midfielders were winning tackles and recovery fast. In Man United, it had to be Rooney who would drop to rescue those situations meant for midfielders.

the players surrounding rooney is the reason he cannot pass accurately, the reason he cannot control a simple ball, the reason his first touch is that of a räpist? abeg, move over.

the players surrounding rooney? the same squad that won 5 of the last 7 league titles, majority of that squad won the champions league & all of a sudden, they are to be blamed for rooney's lack of technique??

Oghos1: A struggling ozil is a horrible sight to behold.
Ask gunners' fans. They've seen glimpses of it already

a struggling ozil is a better spectacle than a struggling rooney. if we can cope with rooney when he's off-form, i will manage with ozil quite comfortable.


rooney's bottom level is the worst of all professional players in europe. he even fails to make 3 yard passes & his attempt to control a ball takes the ball from brazil to bauchi.

Oghos1: Those comparing it wit d RVP situation are getting it wrong
There's a difference.

Wit as many strikers on d pitch as possible, fergie literarily bypassed d midfield thru extensive wingplay and of course carrick's exceptional forward passes.

even when we had carrick on the pitch, we have struggled. we signed fellaini, we are still struggling. our problem is not defending - it's attacking.

And of course d fire power was there to make d idea a success.

it would have been the same this season. with moyes deliberately crippling van persie with his overzealous training regime & rooney getting booked idiotically even when he knew his suspension would harm us, ozil would have been our oasis.

Itz not quite d same with an AM in d mould of ozil. Ozil in dis team wit that midfield wouldn't have made much difference.
That's just d reality.

he would have made a world of difference. rooney would have moved to the left, nani/valencia/janujaz to the right & the rest is history. how can you blame the defensive part of the midfield when we have only scored 8 goals in 8 games at home?

superstar1: The argument over not signing Ozil is baseless.

Is it not better for us to have quality players and don't know where to.fix them but they are handy in case of emergency than we not even having the luxury of a below quality player.

Ozil would have added value, whether as a CAM or LAM. Moyes was too myopic to see it. Would Martinez have allowed that to pass. Capital N-O.

hahahaha....
we could have easily argued the same when we bought berbatov - even when tevez's transfer dragged & dragged, the media kept saying we didn't need carlitos cos signing him would be an overkill.

without a shadow of doubt, fergie would have signed ozil if he was still in charge when ozil was offered to us. moyes' head is so far up his arsë to recognise quality. he would rather bring back osman, pienaar & baines instead of mesut ozil.

chamotex: What are you talking about.
That is all good as long as we are doing well on the pitch.
Miss out on top 4 and continue with shady performances and let's see how long the Glazers will hold out for.
Go back and re read what I typed.

the glazers will feel it if we don't make the top 4. champions league gives united loads of money in match bonuses & especially from TV companies. i know the glazers are not stüpid though, they didn't become billionaires out of pitying a hapless employee like moyes......they will give him the sack if things don't improve by january.

StarBoard: Explain the difference please.
Last I checked your central midfield comprised of both DM and AM.
I could be wrong.

----carrick--cleverley----
-nani-----ozil-----rooney-
-----------RVP-------------

how can we go wrong with that?

Oghos1: U r forgetting d reason rooney requested a move in d 1st place.

that was why i said moyes has no common sense. rooney couldn't follow through his heart desires. if he asked for a transfer, he would have lost millions in bonus due to him & rooney didn't want that so moyes had the advantage over him - but the tool fücked it up.

Wit moyes trying his best to keep him happy and around, there was just no room for ozil.

there's plenty of room for ozil.....
isn't that why we have become suddenly blunt in the attack? an injury to rooney/RVP and our output decreases by 50%.

StarBoard: elampiro,
What are we doing with the two we have?
Strootman wasn't in the plan. How can you believe that coming from a team that has a combo of David Moyes and Ed Woodward?
Strootman is integral to Roma's unbeaten run in Series A. Yet you believe a Moyes who cannot be trusted with the simple task of filling you and I with confidence of beating anybody when he ones his first 11 on match day?

he should have sold rooney & when özil offer came - moyes should have signed him too. one of them would be on the left flank now & it would have solved the problem we have on that side of the pitch.

we had 4 strikers when fergie bought van persie. he said the offer was too mouth-watering to ignore. if a world class goal-maker like özil is being offered, every manager should kill to bring him in. rooney playing from the left wouldn't have affected his creativity.