₦airaland Forum

Netherlands legalized same sex marriage way back in 2001.
Today, Netherlands has the 18th largest economy in the world.

fedex01:
LOL, you didn't provide even one counter to my arguments. Everybody in that thread acknowledged that. You aren't qualified enough to even have a debate. I am qualified researcher....and you?

Everybody should check out for themselves. There you go, I have posted the thread link where you supposedly "punched holes" in my claims (although you did not even counter one...yes, one..point of mine with any evidence.)

https://www.nairaland.com/2835282/largest-religion-nigeria-islam-christianity#41537860

And Kano inflated their numbers by 500,000 as stated by the article (Kano city has population of 2.8 million according to 2006 census). Where are you getting 6.2 million number? Can you even read? I bet not because even last time you were not able to comprehend the DHS survey data and I had to spoon feed and explain it you what it meant.

Your statistical literacy is very lacking and your education level doesn't seem quite impressive going by the errors you make in your English syntax.

How old are you? 17?

Please, stop insulting 17 year olds.

BETATRON:
that is where FREEWIlL comes in..free will shows that man know left from right and is not compulted to choose any one..which ever path he follows is the result of his own freewill and God's knowledge doesn't mean compultion

Like the teacher knowledge that a child will fail an exam doesn't mean that the child failed as a result of the teachers knowledge but as a result of the student's own slothful and drowsy attitude

This is the problem, an omniscient deity would not predict the future from any previous knowledge, like the teacher did. Instead, the deity would just know.

If an omniscient deity knows that the child would fail an exam, that means the deity knows that the child will be slothful and have a bad attitude towards school.

That means that no matter what, the child would be lazy and would eventually fail the exam.

lexiconkabir:
[b]The Quran makes it clear that, Allah has the power and knowlegdge over everything and can do whatsoever that pleases HIM without anyone questioning him, but it wouldnt make sense for him to impose our deeds on us, hence he gave us freewill, had he imposed our deeds on us, then it will be unjust for him to hold us accountable for it, the Quran tells us why we are living and why we shall die, and what is the reason? Allah created us to TEST who amongst us has better deeds, let me give a simple analogy, its a fact that a lecturer has the power to pass or fail a student in his course disjoint of how brilliant the student is, yet he gives a test, whatever the students gives as answers is their choice, whether it is right or wrong, assuming the answers are wrong, the lecturer already knows that the student will carryover the course, which is what will eventually happen, are you going to hold the lecturer responsible for this? just because he knew the outcome of wrong answers, yet didnt correct it?[/b]

According to you, the Quran says that Allah has knowledge over everything. So I guess it's safe to say that Allah also knows the future.

So when a man is born, then Allah already knows everything that the man will do.

So, if Allah knows the man will become a criminal, then that means that whatever that tries to do, he will always be a criminal because Allah cannot be wrong.

Should the man be punished for something he has no control over?

Sarassin:
In the esotericism of the Christian paradigm it would be fair to say that God though being omniscient, denies itself foreknowledge. The Divine God would need not concern itself with the individual direction of the lives of its creation. All paths lead us to the divine. The sum totality of your lives will as of necessity always be in accordance with the will of the Divine.

Take a match-stick, strike it, light it. In the micro-seconds it takes for the stick to fully ignite, millions and millions of transactions take place, a myriad of mini-worlds are formed and die instantly sulphuric gaseous exchanges take place, molecules are re-arranged. In that micro-instant the matchstick has lived its life. You do not concern yourself with the individual transactions, rather you take the lit stick…..and light a candle with it….or start a fire.

People can and do change their destiny. The parents of the Athenian philosopher Socrates had the most influential and powerful astrologers cast a birth chart for him. It was said Socrates would grow up to be a murderer, a thief, a miscreant and of no value to society. Socrates rejected this and the rest as they say, is history.

If a diety denies itself fore-knowledge then it's no longer omniscient.

paulGrundy:
Some bible skeptics have it that king Herods killing of infants in the book of mattew was made up (did not occur), because Josephus a jewish historian did not acknowledge such an account in his writings/annals. Hence have questioned the accuracy of the scriptures.

Well there is actually a non-christain quote acknowledging the existence of such event.

Although all historians doubt the occurence of such an event, they all seem to agree on Herods capability to do such, his brutality and tyrannic rule during his later years. Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94 AD), reports many of Herod's misdeeds, including murdering three of his own sons. as well as his mother-in-law (Antiquities 15:247-251; LCL 8:117-119)and his second wife (Antiquities 15:222-236; LCL 8:107-113).


Cc; coolusername

When Jesus was born, according to the bible,
Matthew 2:3 says, " When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him." So if all of Jerusalem, knew of the birth of the messiah, why aren't there jewish texts that support the story? This is to completely ignoring the fact that if that verse is correct that the Pharisees won't have had any reason to reject him.

That's just the strange inconsistent story that people call the truth for you.

Richirich713, please stop regurgitating creationist memes that we've all seen hundreds of times.

Also, the big bang theory talks about the rapid expansion of the universe from an incredibly dense point of intense heat.

Is this how snakes looked before the curse?
cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/6/6c/604Eelektross.png/250px-604Eelektross.png

vooks:
'....justice,equality,freedom.....' Why do you pursue these? Who settled on what human morality entails?

Well-adjusted intelligent people like the stoics and epicureans

Richirich713:
Wrong Hitler was not christian, as I said historians are not sure what he believed.

Especially since he promoted war and murder while Jesus and his followers(the original christians) taught love and peace.

It amazing how you will criticize me for using Stalin against the Op but will not say a thing about him using the crusaders against Jesus.

Stalin persecuted religion in the soviet union and promoted atheism but when it's comes to a Atheist I guess it's no problem.

Hitler was definitively a christian and I'm not arguing any further.

Stalin wasn't promoting atheism, rather he was trying to make people view him as the supreme deity.

Also, your logic of Hitler not being a christian because he was wicked is very flawed.

Richirich713:
Stalin definitely promoted atheism in the Soviet Union.

And Hitler was no christian, people are not sure what he was, some even think he was a atheist.

Also the Op argument breaks down when we note that Jesus taught love and peace instead of war, the crusaders actions cannot be regarded as christian especially since it disobeys jesus basic teachings.

Jesus taught to :

•Turn the other cheek. (Matthew 5:39)

•Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:44)

•When the fighting starts, flee (Matthew 24:16)

So calling the crusaders actions "christian" is just wrong.

Eh, Hitler was definitely christian although I see why you guys want to disown him so bad.

His belt buckle and that of all the Nazis had the german words "Gott Mit Uns" which means "God With Us" on them. Darwinian texts were also banned in the country at the time.

[quote author=Richirich713 post=41452366][/quote]Joseph Stalin and the rest didn't do what they did to promote atheism. The same way nobody talks about Adolf Hitler as a christian atrocity, because even though he was a christian, he didn't do what he did to promote christianity.

OLAADEGBU:
What was in the 'original bible' and who was the cause of the loss of countless lives?

The original bible had some extra books like: Tobith, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon. Bel and the Dragon, and Maccabees.

The Thirty Years' War between the Protestants and the Catholics caused the death of thousands of people.

sonOfLucifer:
Peeing. Erections came after Eve. True story.

That explains the pen.is aspect but what about all the other reproductive organs such as the vas deferens, prostate, seminal vesicle?

More importantly, did he have empty ballsacks or were they non-existent?

timonski:
What is OMNISCIENCE?

Infinite knowledge.

BETATRON:
before I begin I should commend your inquisitiveness,

To start with the topic will like to say-God's infinite knowledge doesn't alter free will

It is like the situation of a doctor "expert" after appropriate diagnoses of a patient found out that there is nothing to be done and that the patient will ultimately die

So if this statement of doctor comes to past-can one say the patient died as a result of the doctors knowledge hence holding the doctor responsible for the death of the patient?

Your analogy is good but inadequate for the situation. You talked about 'diagnoses', that word already denotes that the doctor used a frame f reference that he has no control over to make a prediction.

If an omniscient god knows a man will die of lung cancer, then the man has no choice in the matter, even if he abstains from smoking, and eats healthy he cannot escape it.

But if his destiny can change according to his lifestyle then god cannot know everything. For example, in the event that the man takes his own life, can we still say that the god is omniscient?
Certainly not!

Most monotheistic religious assert that their deity of worship is omnipotent (almighty) and omniscient (all-knowing).

They also assert that their deity gives humans freewill to choose their respective fates.

But can freewill and omniscience be mutually inclusive?

My opinion on the matter is that if God is omniscient then freewill is at best, an illusion. Likewise, if we truly have freewill then God cannot be omniscient.

For example, (The Doctor-Accountant Argument by kilkil)
1. God knows you will become a doctor.

2. If God knows something to be true, it is true, no matter what.

3. It is true, no matter what, that you will become a doctor.

4. If you are a doctor, you cannot be an accountant.

5. If God knows you will be a doctor, He also knows you will not become an accountant.

6. It is absolutely true, no matter what, that you
will not become an accountant.

Let me put it this way:

If God knows you will become a doctor, that means it is at the very least possible to know
what choices people will make.

If it is even remotely possible to know the outcome of any decision a person makes, it is
meaningless to regard what they do as an
actual choice. It may appear to be a choice, but
in reality, there is only one, known outcome.

If God knows you will become a doctor, it
means that you never had the choice. You can't
become an accountant, because God can't ever
be wrong. Ever. God knows everything,
meaning He cannot be misinformed, and by
extension, cannot be wrong about things, or be
lied to about them.

If there is a God, one who is omniscient, and
truly knows all, there is no allowance for free
will in our universe.

Civilized discussion, please!

I heard that abortions are legal in Imo state.

KingEbukaNaija:
How I wish you'd call them to order when you read the insults they spew on Christians but then its your crew and you need back up when you are sinking . I hate when an atheist calls me to 'order' , I'll only pay attention to you when same its done first to a fellow atheist

You hate it when an atheist calls you to order? Well, I hope you can see that your problem is a fundamental lack of respect for those who don't agree with you. Also, I only join others' arguments when I see a very flawed point. I won't be a referee for people's arguments.
But if you act childish to me, I'll call you out on it.

KingEbukaNaija:
I enjoy debating with fellow christians where we quote scriptures , learn and grow in the word of God . I enjoy calling them out with their crew off course to scriputurally prove their claims .

I've been a troll on NL for close to 2 yrs now . Nothing can change that .

Its all about winning for me . I'm a blogger and I use the internet 16-20 hours in a day , so whenever I want to learn , I know where to go to .

No wonder when you're backed to a corner in an argument you go on a trolling tirade, it's not even about your faith anymore, it's just to satisfy your ego.

You're a weird, weird man.

KingEbukaNaija:
But its cool when plaetton , menshah , zeemahn , etc do it without making any point ? If you think I'm lying I'll dig up individual posts to shame you

Werey keep deceiving yourself . Expert janker ! Whenever you are ready to recognize what I'm doing to you tho

Does it make it right? I didn't know you were a disciple of them. Have a mind of your own and act like a civilized person.

You've been doing this for so long that you seem to have forgotten the reason for debates: it helps you learn more about your argument and and that of your opponent. It's not about winning, so don't waste anyone's time trying to troll.

KingEbukaNaija:
Sharap . Yours are so puerile . You keep insulting christians and when I do so to you , you cry okuko

Gerrara hia mehn

I don't insult unless provoked. But you and gang, you do it all the time. It's an expert way to derail an argument when your points don't hold water which they almost never do.

KingEbukaNaija:
Neither have you . Bro you are an engineer






You are a baby in theology , so what do you know ? I can't stress your brain to understand the creation story . You can choose to hold any misconception if that's what accommodates your unbelief





Eternal consciousness and intelligence that's why



Wake me up when you understand what eternal consciousness means





God is conscious energy




2 Timothy 2:15

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Christianity discourages critical thinking ? Yet the greatest minds are God believers .

Its called Dark Ages because history was lost or historical events were unknown not because of religion . Pick a book or something .


Sharap . So the argument will end with expressing your faith in science ?

You keep making up points with no evidence, I've researched and I haven't seen any evidence of an eternal consciousness excepts as a ploy to sew up loose arguments.

What does a conscious energy even mean? Dude, that's a made up fact. Where have you ever seen energy having a goal? That's the problem, creationists ask why everything is fine-tuned for life as if this is the universe's goal, but it isn't, life just developed around it's environment.

The christian church has been against stem cell research since time immemorial. It is trying to keep evolution out of our textbooks to maintain it's fragile claims.

Here you are again flat-out creating falsehood, scientific progress was severely hindered during the Dark Ages because of the church, I'm sure you know this but are just withholding the truth.

KingEbukaNaija:
Your sense of reasoning is so medieval . From how far Ive gone with my knowledge of the bible , I cant express the excitement I feel with the way you make yourself look just dumb in your bid to discredit God's efforts .

I'm sure very knowledgeable Christians are laughing at this .

God did it . Science explains how

Your argument tactics are so childish, you've not said anything here, you're just spewing insults.

I'm not here to trade burns here so I'll leave you to ruminate on my points, while I ruminate on yours.

winner01:
Atheism is a lack of belief in God or gods.
Its new age atheists that try to add "without substantial evidence" to the dictionary meanimg of atheism.
And that is outright stup1dity and close mindedness
Atheists seem to be sure that God does not exist and that the universe has no cause. The moniker in the picture below also realised that.

to throw away logic and prey on weak minds?
What did you read and where did you get such information.
Many christians asks questions, its the only way one can grow in any relationship.
The difference between a sincere christian and you is where and whom you ask your questions.
You obviously have asked from wrong sources such that their bullshit now sounds so convincing to you.

Christianity is preying on weak minds because it relies on the indoctrination of young minds to follow a specific pattern of belief. There's no room for change or doubt or for skepticism.

I just don't think that a god exists, if you want me to believe, show some good evidence.

If he's omnipotent why doesn't he do anything? Why does he have to reveal himself through an outdated book? Why do his followers reject scientific facts such as evolution? Why has he let his name be a source of violence and misery throughout history? Why does he work in mysterious and ineffectual ways? Why does carbon dating contradict his word?

Why? Why? Why?

winner01:
God ordained the laws of physics to create and govern the material world we live in.
Im yet to see any claim that will debunk this.

You made the claim, you should be the one to prove it.
But what would you say about evolution? Since it can't be reconciled with the bible's fragile logic it must automatically be wrong.

winner01:
You sound as if everything in the world is explainable. Science dosent claim to have all the answers, but atheism is so sure that there isnt a Creator. Its called close-mindedness.
Why not try to probe where God was with your "created" senses.
The bible was extrapolated and blah blah blah, all talk no proof.

Just google it dude. I don't really have time right now.

winner01:
The primitive individual would have been so intelligent to write such a book on human philosophy that still stands in coherence with 21st century scientific findings.
Nedless to say how the primitive lived over 4500 years and on different continents.

While the book does have its merits it is still extremely far from accurate on human philosophy if I say so myself.
Like fore example, it's severely lacking in knowledge on females, and people's sexual orientations.
I guess you can call the area between Ethiopia and Iran two continents.

winner01:
I keep saying that 98% of atheists here are because of one emotional wreck or the other. Im sorry about your dad but you need to start viewings things differently.
God created man in his creative image and ever since, man has been creating.
I wonder what some pastors think when they stop man from using mans creations.
Man's creation is not in conflict with Gods intervention so why cant i thank God for intervening in the same drugs that was ineffective on some others.
Maybe i should start thanking the universe
Your dad probably knows better. Maybe you should discuss your atheism with him.

Joke's on you, I've been an atheist for about two years now, dude so I have no emotional baggage here. In fact, I was the first to tell my dad to just go to a friggin' hospital but he only listens to the pastor.

Funny thing is, he showed symptoms about a year ago, if he had gone to the hospital then, he would only have needed medication (about 20 000 - 50 000 naira). But no, he prayed and endured it until it came back hard and he had to go through surgery.

That's the danger of christianity right there, children go to faith healers and die all the time because nobody took drugs in the bible.

And it is very convenient to say that medicine is ordained by god except that it didn't happen that way in the bible, did it?

Indoctrination is a plague, dude.

Tolexander:
20years of madness??
Was he mad from pregnancy??
Moreover, the boy isn't appearing being healed o.

My thoughts exactly.
And where is the footage?

winner01:
I laff when you keep pushing science away from religion christianity.
Google scientist

You cant invoke science because science aint closemindedness. science isnt atheism.

Atheism is stup1dity, science isnt.

Stand on your own you irrelevant google scientist

Science made it possible to communicate not atheism.

whatever you meant by magic

Atheism is NOT stup1dity, dude. It's christianity that seems to be anti-intellectual because faith is indistinguishable from gullibility and indoctrination. I mean, YOU see it when you're looking at other religions or cults but are blind to your own.

Christianity's philosophy basically tells us to throw logic away to find happiness. It preys on vulnerable people (like the sick, the poor, and children) and completely takes their self-esteem away so that they feel they can't perform without God. They are irrationally afraid to question anything and will staunchly defend it because of the fear of hell.

I mean, upon reflection don't you see these things?

winner01:
infinite regression
*face palm*
https://www.nairaland.com/2816262/god-created-everything-created-god

So you believe that an omniscient, omnipotent god has existed for eternity but works in ways that are suspiciously similar to random chance?

God created heaven and earth, I though he art I heaven. Where was he before that?

Look just because it was written long ago doesn't make it true, the early conception of the world that was extrapolated from the bible is very similar to the Babylonian one and guess what, they're both wrong. I'm sure you'll say God did that, but why? So that critical thinkers would doubt him and go to hell?

Or is it just a flawed primitive individual that wrote this?

winner01:
@ bolded, just one problem, the atheist seems to know all the means, and is sure God is not one of them.

Because we have no reason to believe that god is one of them, there is no point to most occurrences that happen in the universe. So he either doesn't exist or is in hiding.

But the god we see in the bible is all guns blazing, performing miracles all over the place.

Where is he today?

Today a man with cancer would go through chemo and then thank God when it goes into remission.

When my dad was sick three months back and was going to church for prayers, nothing happened up to the point that the pastor told my dad to go to the hospital.

A surgery almost a million naira later, my dad is still on medication.

Here's the kicker, he still thinks God did it!

KingEbukaNaija:
Oh he did

I'm sure you haven't studied physics enough to disprove Hawking's postulates.

KingEbukaNaija:
The creation story is true and the sequence of events checks out

Oh really? Plants came before the sun? Right? You're telling that is what science says? Well, you're just lying.

KingEbukaNaija:
The creator is conscious , intelligent and eternal . You might well explain how matter provided self awareness in humans .

You created a rule that everything must come from something why terminate it at that point?

I'll tell you why, it's to hide you're weak argument. Ok, what provided self awareness in your god?

KingEbukaNaija:
Some scientists proposed that the universe is eternal with claims that there is no singularity .

That's one possibility, energy has not been destroyed yet as far as physicists know. But wouldn't it be straight-up asinine to assume some god did it?

Christianity discourages critical thinking which is an inherent aspect of science. The period of time were christianity was at its peak is called the Dark Ages for a reason.

Don't supress the spread actual peer-reviewed science for a bunch of fairytales.

Ok, let's say for one second that Hawking made a big mistake.

This does nothing to validate your christian creation myth. First the sequence is completely different from how things came to be.

Secondly, your argument of who put gravity in place requires a fair amount of special pleading to work because it falls apart when you are asked who the creator of this creator is. You may say the creator is self-existing but we have evidence for this.

Third, I want you to consider that energy cannot be created or destroyed by any means that we know of and we know that all matter is made up of 'condensed' energy so it is possible to say that the universe expanded from a singularity (or point) of near-infinite energy.


PS: I want you to understand that gravity doesn't have to be put in place, it is merely a dent in the fabric of space-time caused by a particle that has mass.

Not all girls bleed when dis-virgined.
But to be safe you can always go for the poophole loophole.

Joshuabase:
this question shows you actually read and understood the post, well astrophysicists don't really know why this is so. Studying anti-matter would help us understand it's absence, problem is if matter interacts with matter it instantly vaporizes into pure energy and mesons. So creating and maintaining it is really difficult, therefore the cloud of ignorance that currently covers anti-matter.

Thanks a lot.