₦airaland Forum

stillme: When I was reading my bible as usual,I came across the story of Esau and Jacob which I found interesting but at a time I could not understand the story when I saw"Jacob I love,Esau I hate".
To bible scholars,why did God hate Esau?

@stillme

Straight-up and simply "Jacob I love, Esau I hate" means "Jacob I chose, Esau I chose not"

Omo Alata: The name “Esau” was used to refer to the Edomites (I think). The Edomites often fought against God's chosen people, the Israelites so God hated them (I think).

[quote author=frank3.16]Na waoo, is that d origin of tribalism?[/quote]Explain in your own words, your definition of tribalism

God2man: Let us read these Bible verses together to understand my curiosity, Luke 8:26-35:

"And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.

And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have i to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, tormen me not.

( For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters: and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness)

And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.

And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.

Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.

Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were dparted, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and his right mind: and they were afraid"

Now, i am still wondering about these story. A single man possessed with six thousand devils. How?

Where are those devils residing? The body,soul or the spirit. Where? That word Legion in a miltary usage represents six thousand men in Roman Army.

Six thousand demons or devils in a man. Amazing!

Nairalanders, can you help me?

God bless you.
God2man.

@God2man

How?

Score: 1 - 0

One man had 6,000 devils; scored One

A large group of 2,000 pigs kept together as livestock had 6,000 devils to share among them; scored Zero

God's pièce de résistance - Man, fearfully and wonderfully made. Virtually indestructible.

God2man, God constituted that a body (e.g. man) is needed to operate on earth legally.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth" - Gen 1:26

When God wanted to operate on earth, He followed the rule and found Himself a body in the person of Jesus

For the Holy Spirit, when it comes to operating on earth, it is the body of Christ, the church, that is taken advantage of

In a secular seting, similarly, team spirit too, whether in a company, a sports team, a football team etc, needs the physical presence or body of the footballers/players/staff to function

Spirits are intangible, for this reason, needs bodies for their presence to be felt or perceived.

Look at this illustration for a moment

To drive, man needs a car - note that chassis and coach-work makes a car

To operate, spirit needs a body - note that flesh, spirit and soul (i.e. breath of God) makes a body

Just as a man enters a car to drive

So a spirit enters a body to operate or function

Apart from those pigs, I am aware of the snake as the only other animal that a spirit/devil entered to operate.

Needs to be recognised that spirits can be clean or unclean spirits

These particular unclean spirits opted for an unclean body to be released into.

Unfortunately the unclean body; the pigs couldnt handle the presence of the unclean spirits; the legion, whereas this man, singularly, was able to tolerate & withstand them.

The pigs became deranged and suicidal

God's pièce de résistance - Man, fearfully and wonderfully made. Virtually indestructible.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/17/article-2190052-14979FAB000005DC-133_634x336.jpg
How did he survive this? Builder pierced through head by 6ft pole miraculously cheats death

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190052/How-did-survive-Builder-pierced-head-6ft-pole-miraculously-cheats-death.html

Goshen360: Do we really understand the context or what is meant in 2 Timothy 3:16?

I was having fellowship with our heavenly Father through the Holy Spirit while I was bathing, just about to go to bed last night. Immediately I stepped into the bathtub, the Spirit of God whispered to my ears - 2 Timothy 3:16,

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Without knowing what was to follow, I quickly answered Yes, Lord. And the next question followed:

Are you aware that many people spoke in what us called the "inspired" word of God? Again, I asked, how do you mean Lord? And He said, take for instance, the devil spoke in the bible. I said, Yes. And then the bomb question followed - Can you then say the devil was inspired by God since 2 Timothy 3:16 says ALL SCRIPTURES IS GIVEN BY THE INSPIRATION OF GOD?

The Spirit of God began to teach me the meaning and context of this verse and it was nice time until I went to bed and still woke un-recovered from the fellowship. I intend to share the message of here but first, I like us to start it as a discussion rather than me just teaching here. So the question is, was the devil and demons who also spoke in the bible also inspire by God since "ALL SCRIPTURES" is given by the inspiration of God?

@Goshen360

I thought the dog wags the tail but you've inadvertently managed to get the tail wagging the dog here

Goshen360: . . . I was having fellowship with our heavenly Father through the Holy Spirit while I was bathing, just about to go to bed last night. Immediately I stepped into the bathtub, the Spirit of God whispered to my ears - 2 Timothy 3:16,

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Without knowing what was to follow, I quickly answered Yes, Lord. And the next question followed:

Are you aware that many people spoke in what us called the "inspired" word of God? Again, I asked, how do you mean Lord?

And He said, take for instance, the devil spoke in the bible. I said, Yes. And then the bomb question followed - Can you then say the devil was inspired by God since 2 Timothy 3:16 says ALL SCRIPTURES IS GIVEN BY THE INSPIRATION OF GOD?

Consider this parallel, Bentley manufactures handcrafted motor cars which are profitable for significant luxury, for level of assurance, for class/status, for elegance, for serenity etc

The upholstery, the chassis, the tires etc except collectively; on their own are not a Bentley

What the devil spoke is not God inspired but the scripture that spawned from it, this, is given by inspiration of God; for use in terms of lessons for teaching; for guidance in performing/carrying out/doing all kinds of right things; for learning from etc

Moses had "flashes of inspiration" off God, where he was mentally stimulated to write the Pentateuch

The five books he wrote were created for the benefits mentioned in the latter part of 2 Timothy 3:16

You are decimating 2 Timothy 3:16 when focusing or highlighting the former part alone without the latter part

2 Timothy 3:16 is a conjugate, the former part and latter part work hand in glove, and not in isolation

God allows the devil to speak, although whatever comes out isn't God inspired, it still doesn't stop it being used by God when deemed necessary or appropriate for our benefit or lesson . . .

bump

buzugee: you err in the scriptures. you err. ok lets pick your quoted verses apart one by one

i DID NOT say God will dwell on the earth. Christ is who will dwell on the earth. and this will be his kingdom on earth DANIEL 2 VS 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

AND LETS GET A PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF THE DURATION OF EARTH. ECCLESIASTES 1 VS 4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

REVELATION 21 VS 3[b] And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
[/b]
ISAIAH 65 VS 17 - For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. SEE YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DECODE THE BIBLE. IT IS CODED. WHAT THIS STATEMENT MEANS IS THAT THERE WILL BE A NEW RULERSHIP ( NEW HEAVENS ) AND NEW CITIZENS ( NEW EARTH) ON EARTH. THE NEW CITIZENS AND RULERSHIP WILL BE RIGHTEOUS

ISAIAH 66 VS 1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? THAT THERE IS A RHETORICAL STATEMENT THAT YOU TOOK LITERALLY. MEANS I AM GREATER THAN YOU SO YOU CANT PLEASE ME WITH YOUR WORKS.

ISAIAH 66 VS 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. ANOTHER EXAMPLE IN HOW NOT TO READ THE BIBLE LITERALLY. NEW HEAVEN = NEW RULERSHIP. NEW EARTH = NEW INDIGENES. MEANING THEY WILL ALL BE RENEWED AND RIGHTEOUS.

Matthew 5:34-35 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: ANOTHER RHETORIC STATEMENT YOU TOOK LITERALLY. SIMPLY A DRAMATIC WAY OF SAYING 'DO WHAT YOU SAY WITHOUT SWEARING. LET YOUR YES BE YOUR YES AND NO BE NO. OPARI'

buzugee: 2 PETER 3 VS 13[b] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness[/b] ANOTHER CODED VERSE. NEW HEAVEN = NEW LEADERSHIP. NEW EARTH = NEW INDIGENES. NEW LEADERSHIP UNDER CHRIST IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. AND A RENEWED INDIGENE WHO WILL DWELL IN RIGTEOUSNESS.

Know all that about heaven meaning rulership, earth meaning ownership, water/sea meaning people etc

Also knew that not adding Paul's 2 Corithians 12:22 to the list will come back to haunt me, consequence of jetting off to not miss the men's 4x100m relay

Only asked you to clear the air on the heaven you are alluding to and provided you verse aids after you said heaven's locality is Earth

Recall that OP asked is "heaven real or just a mere fabrication"

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corithians 12:22

buzugee: heaven ? is real. but it is on earth. when the messiahs kingdom is established on earth, it will become heaven
hell fire ? its both symbolic and real. their will be an actual fire that will burn the rebellious but prior to that fire, hell is also a condition placed on the rebellious. so it is a dichotomy.

Acidosis: Its like you wrote your own bible book yourself. .

buzugee, you know you're my homie, we all good and all that but must say Acidosis is right that you're getting ahead of yourself there.

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!
1 Kings 8:27

"But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built.
2 Chronicles 6:18

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isaiah 65:17

Thus says the LORD, "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?
Isaiah 66:1

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your descendants and your name remain
Isaiah 66:22

"But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING"
Matthew 5:34-35

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, in which dwells righteousness.
2 Peter 3:13

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:1

You better clear the air on the heaven or which of the heavens you are alluding

CHARLOE: @ Buzugee,
very interesting truths, i've been reading about this recently and what i found so far is really mind-boggling! am shocked @ d biggest cover-up in history (if true) and excited @ d truth. Now i know why d blackman is despised all over d world.
I used to recieve some literature frm d philadelphia church of God in d usa, and dey say d english speaking pples (uk,usa,australia etc) of 2day are d lost 10 tribes of israel and i belived, now i know better (though i've not gotten d full facts).
I always seek d truth, even when it hurts. 1 tin i've come to realise is that The hardest thing 4 any human being to do is TO ACCEPT ERROR OF BELIEF! But if u really seek d truth, u won't find it so hard.
I'm suprised by d lakadaisical attitudes of most pple i try to tell dis truth; its either dey don't believe or don't care, PATHETIC! I really want to know more as am not clear on some things, for example
1. whats d proof africa was linked to d middle east by land?
2. whats d proof d biblical israelites migrateD to west & south africa?
3. i read of a pharoh with yoruba and anoda with ijaw names (priye), does it mean blacks frm west africa migrated to egypt or came frm egypt?
I know dis is deep history, spanning over tens of thousands of yrs and will appreciate if u cld give me a source, link or e-book to enlighten me more.
For those seeing/hearing these for d 1st time, check below a few things dat blew my mind and triggered my re-search;
A. In d book of deut. (cant rem d chpt & verse) God said d israelites will be taken as slaves with rods of iron around their neck, in ships to strange lands, they'll lose their identity and will be despised of all nations. We all know d race been referred to, d BLACK RACE! DAT BLEW MY MIND)
B. Do u know some of d sphinx & pyramids in egypt are over 18,ooo yrs old? From biblical history, adam (d 1st man) lived on earth roughly 6000yrs ago.
The above 2 pts sums up d 2 tins i discovered dat brought me to a spiritual standstill.
If B. above is true den it brings to question d integrity of d bible, as some pple believe d bible writers plagiarised ancient egyptian mythology,(goggle/youtube dr ray hagins 4 more on dat). Dis is a topic 4 anoda day, and i don't want to delay dis thread, but will appreciate if Buzugee and anyone out there 4 dat matter can throw more light on it, tanx.
Lastly, i'll like to encourage every 1 not to be rigid in our beliefs or assume we have monopoly of d truth, U might just be in error!

I too as well, I jettisoned their literature when I realised HWA stunk and his books was riddled with his false teachings and doing damages than good

Joagbaje: Demons Can indwell the sprit , soul and body of a man. They can even be in million if . They are spiritual Beings so they don't occupy space like humans .

smh

buzugee: SPEAKING OF CHICKEN I COULD USE SOME KFC

Dont say you arent looked out for. Take a pick, bon appetit

The Palms Mall, Lekki
282 Herbert Macaulay Way, Yaba
Kazuma Plaza, 2-4 Ede Street, Apapa
49C Ligali Ayorinde, Victoria Island
Shop 10, City Mall, Onikan
Plaza 307, Adeola Odeku Street, Victoria Island
34 Allen Avenue, Ikeja
Adeniran Ogunsanya Shopping Center or Mall, Surulere
15, Shasha Road, Akowonjo Round About, Akowonjo, Lagos

mkmyers45: Found This:

Which is the worst translation of the Bible into English? Give an example or two of why you think it's bad.

For my money, it's "The Message."

For example, Revelation 2:4-5 is translated in that version as:

ESV has

NKJV

And here's a rundown of the Greek text:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=2&v=4&t=KJV#conc/4

Where did they get a reference to "Lucifer" or find anything that has to do with a "golden circle" in any of that?

buzugee: THATS WHY I READ ONLY THE KJV.

SimonAndal: That's why I read none at all. The only bible-like book I've read is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

I do read each and all translations, though 9 times out of 10, I usually settle for KJV
and I am game for new translations too.
It is a travesty and some translations truly are fair game.
The rule of thumb or best practice is be on red alert when eat[/b]ing [b]the chicken(s) and spit out bone(s) when alarm bells starts ringing.

OlaAjia: Why do you have to create a strawman argument from something you quoted out of context in the first place?

If you can, please answer the questions that were asked and leave out the emotional baggage, thanks.

@OlaAjia

Please highlight the sham and stop whinging.

This is God's prerogative. The perks that come with the office. He created you like He created all other things, and for His pleasure you and all are created.

By the way the emotions are unstirred

The question was answered with an emphatic No

OlaAjia: Implying people you hardly know are evil, forces me to question what your received definition of evil is. I'd be happy if you're kind enough to define evil for me.

Conjectures. I said "There are going to be too many evil people . . . " and followed with "too many OlaAjias, too many Delafruitas, too many Area_boys etc," never labelled or tagged OlaAjias, Delafruitas, Area_boys evil

OlaAjia: So apparently you believe God NOT creating me would have been evil, but you don't believe God throwing me into an eternal burning flame is? You might have got it twisted bro/sis.

Creative snobbery is evil.

Not that you have much or any say in it but why are you refusing to give God the right to create you

Why do you want to deny God this special right available only to Him alone, to create you

No sire, you have mistaken judgment for twisting

OlaAjia: Would you rather be created and go to hell or never be created at all?

I would rather be created and see life out, if ended up in hell. Oh shucks

OlaAjia: Let me get this straight.

I dig a very deep ditch and light it up with an everlasting fire,

I don't stop there. I make the path to that ditch very slippery and practically impossible to evade for all wayfarers.

I then tell the wayfarers that "hey, you must worship me and accept me as your lord, by so doing, I'll prevent you from slipping into my fire, else, I will look the other way as you slip into it."

"What's more, you'll burn in it forever since you did not obey me!"

"Kindly note that this warning is out of love"

One wayfarer asks. "Errr excuse me Mr ditch digger, why did you feel obliged to dig the ditch and light it up in the first place"

My reply "Well, I love you, that's why. Now shut up and stop questioning my ways. My ways are mysterious."

As you can see people, it's all for love!

[quote author=Lord_Reed]God set into motion a Universe of cause and effect and placed you in it in order to show you how much like Him you are but you want to spurn His guidance and expect to be safe. Tell me who is deluded.[/quote]

OlaAjia: Why does God create me and then feel obliged to "set into motion" such an elaborate, grand scheme just so he can show me how much like Him I am? I don't get it.

Why do I, a creation, need to know how much like my creator I am? And why should I want to be like my creator?

Further, if in your own words I "spurn His guidance", should that not prove to God, more than myself that He has created me with 'flaws' that can never make me like Him? What's the point exactly?

@OlaAjia

You being melodramatic and digging a ditch for yourself.

Listen to yourself. "Why does God create me? . . . "

Why not. It would have been unfair for God not to have created you.

God is omniscient. So it is true He knew that many people would be stiff necked and rebellious and He also knew that many people too would will toe the line.

Evil was already present before God created your lineage Adam and Eve before you

Are you saying God shouldn't have created you?

Are you saying you rather would have preferred aborted than experience the opportunity to know God?

Are you saying you prefer not to have the chance to personally know God's love and peace?

You whack your talisman on your head if you are 100% sure of its potency

and that is exactly what God did

God didn't chicken out or baulk thinking "There are going to be too many evil people, [s]too many OlaAjias, too many Delafruitas, too many Area_boys etc,[/s] so I will not create them man,"

Such thinking, idea killing like this, is wickedness, evil in itself

Evil would have triumphed by influencing God's idea and thwarting His plan of which God is worthy, to receive the glory and honour and power: for He hast created all things, and for His pleasure they are and were created.

Romans 12:2 states "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

It is a good thing God created you and hey all play by the same set of rules on this level playing field

Delafruita: full dose of bullcrap

@Delafruita

A little bird was flying south for the winter.
It was so cold the bird froze and fell to the ground into a large field.
While it was lying there, a cow came by and dropped some bullcrap on it.
As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of bullcrap, it began to realize how warm it was.
The bullcrap was actually thawing the bird out! It lay there all warm and happy, and soon began to sing for joy.
A passing fiend cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate.
Following the sound, the fiend cat discovered the bird under the pile of bullcrap, and promptly dug it out and ate it.

Moral of the story:
1. Not everyone who craps or shìts on you is your enemy.
2. Not everyone who gets you out of crap is your friend.
3. And when you’re under a full dose of bullcrap or in deep shìt that you don't seem to understand, then, sometimes it’s best to keep your mouth shut!

[quote author=Area_boy]that's one wicked god [/quote]

danwo: I suppose you arrived at that opinion by your myopic standards. You will soon find out that the older you grow the less you thought you know

ayobase: Thats uncalled for!

danwo: So the hypocritical self-righteousness claim that God is wicked is called for. Hmm?
No offence because it is a fact that the older you get you'll soon realise that you actually know less than you actually thought you knew

ayobase: Im just saying u can pass ur msg without those!

@ayobase
Aye I will learn from your sanctimonious self and maybe I should be borrowing from some of your favorite adjectives below

ayobase: Na real swegbe he be....running behind d teacher....the teacher sef na mumu!

ayobase: Wet blanket...u wan spoil market?
Stay put with DEEP!

ayobase: U r a coward.
So, surfing through profiles is what determines ur courage....u disappointed me.
And ur sense of judgement tells how stupid u are.
GBOROMIRO!
U just came in here and started yapping like bingo.
If I may ask u, do u get ur pieces of information from the pluto?
Let me not waste my precious time on u!
U are now publicized...enjoy!

ayobase: U r indeed not SMART....sorry to say abeg!
Or shld I say u r not a PLAYER...not a player as such.
She is taking u for granted aight.....its better u turn her to ur f.uucking mate, but be careful of STDs..just learnt that there are some STDs that affect the Liver!
I was once like u....always giving my best to keep the relationship going cos she is BEAUTIFUL,INTELLIGENT and SMART gel.
You are too carried aways by those features, and she is manipulating u with those.
''atleast he cant leave me because Im too good for him......''
Did I speak ur WHOLE-HEART!

[quote author=Ileke-IdI]Huh? Who else should we blame? Who had the power to make the judgement? Who had the power to carry out the judgement?[/quote][quote author=Area_boy]wtf! he said he did it. so why blame someone else? lol[/quote][quote author=Ileke-IdI]LOL infact, who else can we blame?[/quote][quote author=Area_boy]Flash Gordon [/quote][quote author=Lord_Reed]God never said he did any of that. He didn't even tell the woman the pain was His punishment. He simply told her the consequences of her action, same thing He keeps on telling us today.[/quote][quote author=Genesis 3:16]"Unto the woman he said,

I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;

in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;

and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."[/quote]Animals do not need anesthetic and not every woman takes epidural during child birth

Genesis 3:16 is not about physical pain but is about pain of the mind as opposed to pain of the body

By de facto, Eve was distressed from the or her loss and was already suffering from mental anguish etc before God declared that He will add more to her sorrow by increasing it

Eve was also renowned to have had ideas in Genesis 3:6

[quote author=Genesis 3:6 ]And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,

and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat[/quote]Wisdom is about making good decisions, notice Eve planning, in her mind,

Notice her having ideas and then succumbing to that strong feeling of wanting to have the fruit and wishing that after eating it, it will make her wise

Now God is saying apart from the sorrow, her conception too will be greatly increased

Her conception also known as ideas, plans, schemes, her way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong, like eating the fruit, will be greatly increased

whilst her idea extravaganza is to impress her husband Adam, he Adam is to maintain the balance, keep her and the plans in check and in perspective.

Most of the times well-intentioned or well-meaning, women with their plans and ideas at times, remember John 2:4, it just says it all

[quote author=John 2:4]"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied. "My time has not yet come."[/quote]

[quote author=Ileke-IdI]lol

@danwo/LR,

Thanks you guys for the explanations.
So why were these innocent animals punished for the sins they did not commit?

I assumed that God was a fair and innocent God, so now i'm just baffled.[/quote]@Ileke-IdI

C'mon now, dont be ridiculous, no offence. Am baffled too why the blame is at God's steps and not elsewhere.

ayobase: Thats uncalled for!

So the hypocritical self-righteousness claim that God is wicked is called for. Hmm?
No offence because it is a fact that the older you get you'll soon realise that you actually know less than you actually thought you knew

[quote author=Area_boy]I really dont understand you guys.

Lets turn the table. Imagine it was a king that did that to his subjects. Punish everyone in the kingdom for the disobedience of two people only. punish livestocks, drain the soils from nutrients so people have to work extra hard to grow food. Increase the pain of life for all his subjects for everything they do, even in the most important phase of their survival (childbirth).

But he actually loves his subjects??. everyone will clearly call this king an evil king or even question his stance.

Why then does god get an unlimited "get out of jail free" card?. why cant he be questioned?? If i cant question my father (No matter how silly my question is), then he really doesn't love me.

dictatorship to the highest degree.[/quote]The crying wolf charade doesn't wash

Who says you cant question God.

Didnt He say "Come now, and let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool"

Wasnt it you goody two shoes that was so opinionated and saying below God is twisted

[quote author=Area_boy]that's one wicked god [/quote]If He is your Father then at least display some courtesy with respect as you would accord an earthly father

[quote author=Area_boy]that's one wicked god [/quote]I suppose you arrived at that opinion by your myopic standards. You will soon find out that the older you grow the less you thought you know

Uyi Iredia: The curse applied strictly to man. There's nowhere and I mean NOWHERE in the Bible where animals were cursed/punished at the fall.

Beg to differ my friend, it affected all, the whole shebang, ecosystem and all. God said the ground was cursed. cursed is the ground for your sake . . . or The ground is cursed because of you. Through hard work you will eat [food that comes] from it every day of your life

Animals are expendable and collateral damage which unfortunately got caught up in the whole mess

[quote author=Ileke-IdI]A straightforward reading of Genesis 3 and 4 would lead one to believe that Eve's first children were Cain and Abel, born outside the Garden, after the Fall. This would not be a problem except for one word in Genesis 3:16...


“I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth."

In older translations, the word sharpen is translated as increase. God is telling Eve that the discomfort of bearing children will be worse[/quote][quote author=Ileke-IdI]Animals also have painful childbirth.

Even though it's impossible to tell if they had the painful childbirth before or after Eve's punishment.[/quote]@Ileke-IdI

The answer to "Were Animals Also Punished For Eve's Disobedience? If Yes, Why?" is a brief reply of No.

However to get a good handle on Genesis 3:16, there is the necessity to read the verse in its entirety

The below KJV version gives the verse better justice

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

There is a lot to take, so I'll be leaving you with some leg work to make the snaps fit together well enough for you to see the big picture.

Find out the meaning and etymology of Cain.

Find out the meaning and etymology of Abel.

Note that shall be is in italic in Genesis 3:16, meaning that it wasn't in the original text but put in by the translator

This often happens because the translators tried to make sense of illegible, missing, blank etc text during translation

So without shall be in the latter part of Genesis 3:16 would read " ... and thy desire to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Comparing " ... and thy desire to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." of Genesis 3:16 with the latter part of Genesis 4:7 reveals

Just remembered you havent got a bible handy, Genesis 4:7 reads

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

Note again that shall be again is in italic just as in Genesis 3:16. How convenient is that, eh?

When you manage to find out what the first son was named and why, when you've found out what the second son was named, how and why named so.

Then rewind to Genesis 3:6;

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat"

Don't forget to keep in mind the was and one italics whilst going over Genesis 3:6

Genesis 3:16 will then be true to form because Eve after their fiasco and misfortune, over the years did have the feeling of sorrow, pain, sadness, deep distress caused by loss and disappointment

Note the keywords in Genesis 3:16 were " . . . greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception in sorrow you shall bring forth children"

Eve sure did have many babies, God sure kept His word of multiply her conception and you could imagine the gnashing teeth pre and post birth realising she was sold a turkey

Adding a twist, conception is not only about making babies though but is also about scheming, forming or devising of plans or ideas

Now such underhanded plans are what Adam was to rule over as originally expected. Side glance Genesis 4:7 for reference and similar advice offered Cain

Sorry if you are making a lot of effort trying to properly follow or grasp this. I did declare caveat emptor and the leg work hint

Ptolomeus: Excellent thread, my friend!
It is contradictory that the vast majority of the "possessed" are just Christians...
The question that arises is this: the Christian God does not protect its devotees? The Christian god has no power to care for their children from the dangers of Satan?
I never understood that.
I do not understand why a God so powerful, is fighting for thousands of years against Satan, unable to overcome ...
I suitable to send a fraternal embrace, dear friend!

Ignorance is bliss.Thanks that the LORD is longsuffering in silence and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression.

Goshen360: I don't really get your presentation here. Being influenced and being possessed.....please clarify.

I was only parroting back what you earlier used.1st "Can A Spirit Filled Christians Still Be Possessed By Demon(s)?"2nd."I still want you to prove with scriptures that a spirit filled can be influenced by demons due to sin".Dont ask me to clarify.so does influenced by demons means exactly or nearly the same as influenced by satan/serpent

Goshen360: Adam and Eve were not possessed or influenced but tempted.....I believe. (I might be wrong though)

True that about not possessed.trust me eve was tempted and influenced.lust of the eyes,lust of the flesh and pride of life.

Goshen360: Ananias and Sapphira ARE NOT BELIEVERS BUT EXAMPLE OF CHURCH GOERS and I can prove it. In Acts of Apostles, when the Bible refers to a believer, such phrase such as "certain disciple called....." is being used to refer to them (Acts 16:1; 9:10; 9:36; 21:16). In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, they were called, "certain man called ....." Acts 5:1

and 2 verses later "Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself."

Goshen360: I think many things being referred to as "demonic influence" is works of the flesh. Everything is not demons. I still want you to prove with scriptures that a spirit filled can be influenced by demons due to sin. Give us examples in the NT.

1st question,within this playing field are we inferring that spirit filled can be influenced by demons means exactly or nearly the same as spirit filled can be influenced by satan/serpent.2nd question are we also inferring that adam and eve were influenced [b]due to sin[/b.3rd question what and who were Ananias and Sapphira?

buzugee: slammed in the cooler ? not quite. what an imagination you have there

your post hastily and mysteriously disappeared,and you too,until today,so thought you got banned to instil more patience in you.

buzugee: i see yall goons is breaking bread in here

aye.church.ajoje lo ndun.And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.

#Can A Spirit Filled Christians....
"Spirit Filled".this is the most important point of the issue raised by OP.through out the bible "Spirit Filled" is for empowerment.adam and eve were spirit-filled,for exploits,though they weren't possessed by the serpent,the serpent made sure it short-circuited the plans with its allure.on a final note,one thing that is certain,is that God delivers His own from evil.by the way mull over this."And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Sau[/b]l, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand"- 1 Samuel 18:10

ps.
[b]@buzu

buzu were you slammed in the cooler over patience?

@petres_007
skedaddled to flight and not fight

pin4eva1: @Danwo, forgive my manners no need to get fighty. And to correct myself... Thank you for offering to help out. We will be glad if u did. Thank you so (with a thankful heart)

you made me laugh.fighty? well to start with.how many members are you planning to have.you need to understand that bbm group is not a collaboration app per se hence the 30 member per group limit.i will link you with an alternative way round this.it will then be your judgement call to share it here or not.

pin4eva1: @Danwo for the benefit of everyone (not just me) share the method or trick to nairalanders here. It will benefit everyone.

pin4eva1.i will side step your petulance and ignore whatever preconceived ideas made you concoct the remark above.simple grammar " . . . if you shout out for help when the need arises to go beyond 30 members.I'll explain how to go about exceeding the 30 members per group limit.ok" and you are coming up with some smarty pants "for the benefit of everyone (not just me) share the method or trick to nairalanders here. It will benefit everyone" comment.no gratitude of any sort in all your posts to date.smh,is that a PH thang.you fell for my hand,no be small.if no be God,i would have said shut the front door.but God noni.pfftt.smh.

buzugee: no its not necessary. lol. it does help though. no distractions

lol.was about saying just forewarn us whenever you know you will be praying whilst driving so we can get off the road and warn others not take to it too