₦airaland Forum

sagenaija:
GRACE is EXCLUSIVELY God's work.
No one can ADD to what God has done.

GRACE is a manifestation of God's POWER, God's VIRTUE, God's EFFICACY, God's MERCY and His COMPASSION towards us.

Therefore to think that man can CONTRIBUTE in any way to the GRACE of God is the height of arrogance.

GRACE is always UNDESERVED blessing from God to mankind. God's GRACE is FREE unmerited eternal LOVE of God toward us. GRACE is TOTALLY undeserved.

GRACE implies that all things, INCLUDING SALVATION, never compromise divine essence or divine effort in bestowing blessing and favour on mankind.

For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].
Ephesians 2:8&9 AMP

Depsui:
According to the verse you quoted, you're going to hell and there's nothing you can do about it.

Read the 3verses again.

Depsui:
According to the verse you quoted, you're going to hell and there's nothing you can do about it.

Read the 3verses again.

Depsui:
So since you got saved, you've never committed any sin?

Depsui:
The verse you quoted actually supports the once saved always saved doctrine partially.

The verse says that, if you commit any sin willfully after you get saved, the sin cannot be forgiven and you're going to hell fire. If we accept your interpretation of the verse, almost all Christians are going to hell fire and there's nothing they can do about it.

Ihedinobi3:
I'm afraid I don't see much of what you say in the Bible.

To begin, we "know if one finally dies in sin without repentance, he goes to hell"? How do we know this? I've never seen it anywhere in the Bible. Do you have a passage?

The passage is indeed talking about sins, but I don't think it says what you said that it says. As you said, sin does separate between us and God --

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John 1:6 (NKJV)

But I have never seen that sinning as a believer leads to spiritual death anywhere. It's like saying that a child who is still pleased to be under the authority of his parents is cut off for stealing from the cookie jar. We humans don't even do that, how much more the God Who gave His One Unique Son to die for our sins.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9 (NKJV)

4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.” 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Hebrews 12:4-11 (NKJV)

5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:5 (NKJV)

That is, when we sin and confess, the Lord will forgive us. If we continue to sin without confession, we risk being disciplined with greater and greater intensity until the Lord actually kills us. If we die still sinning or failing to confess, it is because we are being killed by the Lord in order to save us from the Lake of Fire. That is precisely what 1 Corinthians 5 among many other passages including this verse in Romans 8 teaches. So I don't really see what biblical reason you have for saying what you say.

Another problem is the idea that the Second Death and Spiritual Death are the same thing. You also said that when Adam and Eve sinned, they died spiritually, and you are right (Romans 5:12), but the Second Death is the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14-15) and they obviously were not in it at the time, so why do you say that the Second Death and Spiritual Death are the same? It doesn't seem to me to fit.

It seems to me that the Bible teaches that because of Adam's sin, human flesh is defiled with sin and therefore we are all spiritually dead from birth, that is, we are "dead to God" (Colossians 2:13; Ephesians 2:1). We are not reckoned as His Children unless we accept the Gospel when we hear it. Spiritual death, the Bible seems to me to teach, is what the relationship of an unbeliever is to God while they are still alive in the flesh. When we believe, we are born anew/again/from above/of God, so that we become alive to Him (Romans 6:11,13; Colossians 2:13). If we don't believe or we start believing and then stop, we revert to spiritual death. That is not the Second Death still. It is just being/remaining/returning to being enemies with God.

You certainly have a right to your convictions and your understanding. I believe and teach that we all have a free will and thus have individual responsibility to God to believe what we are convinced is true. That is how we will be judged. If we believe lies, it won't matter why we do, we will be punished accordingly. If we believe the Truth, it will only be because we were persuaded in our own hearts that it is true. Nonetheless, we are responsible to help each other in this race. That is our job description as members in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4-7; Ephesians 4:1-16).

I am a pastor-teacher, so I am responsible to explain the Bible and defend it wherever it may be profitable to fellow believers for me to do so. That is why I'm engaging you. As the Lord Jesus said, if you accept a prophet in the name of a prophet (that is, as a prophet), you will get a prophet's reward etc (Matthew 10:41; John 13:8,14), likewise, if it suits you to let me wash your feet, then you can take what spiritual benefit I am capable of giving for your own good. If it doesn't, that is just as well. I am always pained and disappointed when I offer my spiritual service to a brother or sister and they reject it, but it really does not cost me anything when they do. My reward with the Lord is dependent only on my willing obedience to Him, not on the response of those I try to help. If I teach, explain, and persevere with anyone to understand the truth, my job is done and I will be rewarded at the Judgment Seat of Christ. If the person accepts my help and comes to full understanding of the Truth, they are benefited so that they can stand up to the lies of the enemy afterward and also walk in a manner that is pleasing to the Lord, and they will be rewarded at the Judgment Seat of Christ for obeying the Lord to seek out the Truth and believe it. If they reject it, then they will suffer what consequences they are due. I don't feature there either way. Each person's response is between them and the Lord. But I have a responsibility to the Lord to offer my help wherever it may be needed.

As for Revelation 2:11 and similar statements in Revelation 2 and 3, I don't see this parenthesis in the Bible. It is an interpretation of yours too, I believe, and I don't think it is correct. The reason that I don't is as follows:

4 For whatever is born of God the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:4 (NKJV)

So, it seems that the overcoming is of the world and it is done by faith in Christ. If anyone believes and continues to believe until the end of their life here on earth, they are an overcomer in the eyes of the Lord. Sin doesn't seem to have anything to do with it here.

Now, I don't believe that sin is not a serious issue. It very much is. If we were not sinners, the Lord Jesus would never have had to die on the Cross for our sins. Sin is a serious thing. But that is why God does not ignore it in His children. He disciplines us when we sin. If we remain stubborn, He could kill us just to save us from going to Hell if we are also stubborn about our faith and unwilling to give it up. But we are also warned that sin can seduce us into giving up our faith --

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:12-13 (NKJV)

So, we ought to be serious about avoiding sin. But avoiding sin is not the sum total of the Christian experience. In fact, it is supposed to have already been done when we believed. There are far more important things that we should be busy with. So, it is a mark of spiritual immaturity when we are still struggling with questions of sin. We will never be perfect in this life (Jude 3:2; 1John 1:8 ), but by the time that one has grown to spiritual maturity, some things should just not be that big of an issue with us anymore.

This is what I see in the Bible, my friend. I don't see anything even suggesting that sinning or even failing to confess sin at the point of death has anything to do with one's eternal status.

Ihedinobi3:
I don't think that your interpretation here is correct, my friend. The text does not add "spiritually" or "eternally," and I can't think of any other part of the Bible that can lead one to interpret this verse that way. Is there a reason why you interpret it as you do?

Ihedinobi3:
I don't think that your interpretation here is correct, my friend. The text does not add "spiritually" or "eternally," and I can't think of any other part of the Bible that can lead one to interpret this verse that way. Is there a reason why you interpret it as you do?

Xmuslim:
I'm a good person, but I don't accept jesus as my lord and Savior. I'm I going to hell?

WaleRock:
Psalm 119:11 KJV
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Proverbs 4:23 KJV
Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Igbochief001:
See u in hell ...at least muslim hell

Igbochief001:
Yes muslims claim muhammed is the only way too ...olumba is the only way too , eckanka is the only way too ...I can keep naming yours is only special to u

Igbochief001:
Even Jesus said muslims are going to hell

Igbochief001:
And muslims believe all christians are going to hell
Sunnis believe shiiites are going to hell ,shiites believe sunnis are going to hell


So we are all going to hell

JMAN05:
'Church won't take you to heaven.' 'In heaven, God will not ask you which church you attended'. 'Be spiritual, not religious, your church doesn't matter, what matters is your heart, after all there are good people in every religion'.

Does that sound similar to what you ve said before? Perhaps you had to say that to someone who finds fault with your church, or who advise that you change your faith. You are not the only one with that opinion. Many who believe it favor non-denominational churches or ministries. They inter-faith with others of different faith. However, what does the Bible say? Does church matter?

At Matt 7:13,14, Jesus spoke about two roads. One leading to life and the other leading to death. Some may posit that the two roads and two gates refer to two types of humans - righteous and unrighteous people - That the bad people are much more than the righteous. But how can that be, if the broad road refers to bad people, how can bad people also go in through it? It's like in Maths, you say let X represent water pipe, and let Y represent water. Then we still come and say water will go in through Y. Is that logical? You can only say Y will go in through X.

Therefore, we can say that the two roads represent true and false religion. Many are in through the false religion, while few are FINDING the true religion. Ok, but that should refer to false religions like Islam, Traditional religions, Hinduism etc. Well, Jesus words continuous, after speaking of false prophets and the good and bad tree, in verses 21-23, he continued.

He said:

"Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my father who is in the heavens will. 22. Many will say to me in that day: 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name? 23 And then I will declare to them: 'i never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'.

From the above words of Jesus, we can agree that he was even specifically talking about Christian religion (The good and bad trees). He was contextually positing that false Christian churches will abound, many will flow into it.

Someone will say, 'this refers to those who do the work of God, but they don't live by Bible principles. God can use a pastor, even though the pastor is into sin'. But did we notice what Jesus said above? He said he NEVER knew them. Meaning that God has not been using them all along. 'But' someone may inquire, 'my pastor doesn't use charms, nor any talisman, but he performs many miracles by God's name'.

Yes, Jesus says such people will exist, they will perform powerful works by Jesus name. But Jesus doesn't use them.

But can't I be in such a church and still follow my Bible?

Can we consider that next..

An2elect2:
Op I wish and pray that you would point people to the cross, so they can see that Jesus bore all their sins and that God is no longer angry with them but is calling them home. The whole world is tired and hopeless with this "self consciousness" gospel which is another gospel.

You may have good intentions but you are heavily misrepresenting God and making Him appear unholy and unjust. If a man owed you N5000 and his brother pays you on his behalf(even much more than he owed) and you go back to charge him for same money his brother has paid won't you be referred to as wicked and evil? or a thief? You do not realise that that is what you are ignorantly ascribing to God.

Jesus Christ bore the punishment for all our sins. Not one sin was left unpaid on that cross. We were debtors but one paid all our debts once and for all, not only that he earned so many benefits for us. The only reason people are perishing is because they really have no idea who Jesus Christ is and what He did on the cross. Many in this group are still trusting their moral abilities and their works and thereby unknowingly treating the full payment for sins by Christ as not enough or a common thing. A slap to God's Spirit of grace.

How did the church go from presenting to the world the graciousness and kindness of God through Jesus Christ to telling people they have to stop sinning to please God? Don't we know that is the goodness of God that leads one to repentance?

What made the prodigal son return to his father. His Father's goodness or wrath?

Only the gospel can turn the most rebellious person back to God.

The church must stop preaching from a natural human point of view of "doing good and then getting good",we must preach from God's view of " not doing good but getting good from God because one person has done good on your behalf" overtime this grace would transform one from the inside out.

hopefulLandlord:
Remember that if you don't sin it means Jesus died for nothing

ILoveDemMANNA:
My Bible tells me that : 'Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.'
(Romans 6:11).

I believe the antidote for sin is to remember who we are in Christ.

Acehart:
Hi. I asked about Gehazi alone cos his story is extensive. (The rest you listed aren’t and therefore not necessary). You said he was saved; was it because he was a ‘close follower’ of the man of God?

Acehart:
Was Gehazi ever saved?

Ihedinobi3:
I quite agree.

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Galatians 6:7 (NIV)

​1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
Hebrews 12:1 (NIV)

But I know that if we confess our sin, the Lord will forgive us even if we stumble into it again and again. We ought not to underestimate spiritual immaturity and the weakness of this flesh. Some of us take a long time to learn to stay away from "the sin that so easily entangles," so we are often stuck in a cycle of confess-stumble-confess-stumble.

13 As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him; 14 for he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust.
Psalms 103:13-14 (NIV)

This does not mean that the Lord approves of such weakness. We ought to pursue spiritual growth specifically in order to become better at pleasing the Lord (Romans 12:1-2), so it is folly to imagine that because we are mortal flesh, it is somehow okay if we continue to sin recklessly, even if we always confess our sins to the Lord.

Ihedinobi3:
I would certainly hope that it is. One ought to be genuinely repentant after one has sinned. That is my teaching too.

Sinning wilfully per Hebrews 10:26-27, however, is actually rejecting the Cross in favor of Moses in that context, because that is what Paul was warning his fellow Jews about in that letter. In other words, it is the sin of unbelief that he meant, not just any wilful sinning.

If he meant that whenever we sin wilfully or continue to sin without repenting, for example, lying knowing that we are lying or indulging in porneia arrogantly, then we are no longer saved, then there is a question what all the teaching in the Bible about divine discipline and confession and forgiveness is all about.

I'm in agreement with you, I hope you understand. I was only looking to expand what you said in accordance with what I see in the Bible.

The Lord be with you.

Ihedinobi3:
I would certainly hope that it is. One ought to be genuinely repentant after one has sinned. That is my teaching too.

Sinning wilfully per Hebrews 10:26-27, however, is actually rejecting the Cross in favor of Moses in that context, because that is what Paul was warning his fellow Jews about in that letter. In other words, it is the sin of unbelief that he meant, not just any wilful sinning.

If he meant that whenever we sin wilfully or continue to sin without repenting, for example, lying knowing that we are lying or indulging in porneia arrogantly, then we are no longer saved, then there is a question what all the teaching in the Bible about divine discipline and confession and forgiveness is all about.

I'm in agreement with you, I hope you understand. I was only looking to expand what you said in accordance with what I see in the Bible.

The Lord be with you.

Ihedinobi3:
Hello.

I believe you're right that the OSAS doctrine is false and very dangerously so. It's a terrible doctrine.

12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
2 Timothy 2:12 (NIV)

The concern I have about the passage that you shared above is that it is often taken to mean that sin costs us our Salvation, but that too is false. Sinning does not take away our Salvation. Giving up our faith in Jesus is what does. And this latter is what Hebrews 10:26-27 is speaking of. The sin of unbelief is unforgivable (Matthew 12:31; John 3:18). Only by believing can we be saved (John 1:12; 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9). If we stop believing, then we are no longer saved (John 3:18; 2 Timothy 2:12).

When we sin, we break fellowship with God and with fellow believers (1 John 1:6-7), but we do not lose our Salvation. If we confess our sin, we will be forgiven and restored to fellowship with God and with one another (1 John 1:7,9).

Also, when we sin, the Lord disciplines us for our sin, but He only does so because He considers us His children (Hebrews 12:5-11). Otherwise, He would not bother to discipline us (e.g. Psalm 73).

10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Hebrews 12:10-11 (NIV)

19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
2 Timothy 2:19 (NIV)

So, the Bible teaches both that Salvation can be lost and it is lost when we stop believing in Jesus Christ and that sin does not cost us our Salvation.

Finally, I'll add that it is, of course, important to not underestimate the effect of sin on faith. If we throw ourselves into a habit of sinning recklessly, we can eventually give up our faith in Jesus Christ as a result, because when we are disciplined by the Lord and harden our hearts against the discipline, we can certainly grow more and more rebellious against Him until we choose to stop believing so that we can sin as much as we want without having to deal with the pangs of conscience and other discipline that the Lord lays upon us.

13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:13 (NKJV)

haddeylium:
Heb 6:4-4:
For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit5and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things,6 but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.


This is another part of Hebrew scripture?
it shows someone anointed with holy Spirit can lose hope of salvation
you were saying??

ublight:
if u deny eternal salvation, u deny Christ.