₦airaland Forum

malvisguy212:
correct me if am wrong, agnostic are a set of confused people,they believe there is God but dosent know which one is true,because of the supernatural happening around them, they cant explain it, so they cant just believe there is no God, am i right?

Agnostics may/may not regard the "supernatural" or "god/gods" as likely but also stands that such knowledge of the "supernatural,god,gods" cannot be known..
I wouldn't say an agnostic is confused, but the term has been marketed as a middle round when in reality it is merely lack of knowledge theists and atheists have towards the "supernatural,god,gods" claims..

I myself would fall within the agnostic atheist..although I prefer the term "atheist" alone.
And please answer my question...how can christianity be different when it shares and derives most of its tenets from judaism...

[b] Malvisguy212,
where did you get your "two camps of agnosticism" notion from....gnostic implies knowledge...agnosticism implies lack of knowledge...
Therefore there should be either;

Gnostic theist: With the claim of knowledge affirming that "gods/god" exists.

Agnostic theist: With the lack of knowledge that "gods/god" exists but still believes albeit less like he/she regards the claim as true...

Agnostic atheist: A lack of belief that requests what each persons "god/gods" are and ask if the belief can be verified or justified...belief is withdrawn till it can be justified. Unjustified beliefs are dismissed...

Gnostic atheist: A lack of belief that puts the "god/gods" assertion as false upon investigating the lack of evidence and suspends belief till the belief is justified...

And malvisguy...isn't it bias to consider yours as "different from the rest" when its foundation is on judaism...or is judaism partly right? [/b]

I imagine a world where people agree to their differences and work towards understanding each other....
Most,if not all people who hate/dislike gay people in nigeria do so out of either ignorance or religious/cultural themes...
The more gay culture is promoted as a healthy,natural lifestyle to youths....the more they'll realize that gay people are just as natural as straight are....and the more people who are gay can express themselves freely...
It is ironic that those who claim the moral high ground are those calling people of different sexual orientations "gay pig,fa.g,etc"

Weah96:
John 14:12-14King James Version (KJV)

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So if a "born again" theist were to pay for world hunger to end.....it should end, shouldn't it?..
So has nobody ever prayed this?....if no,it would imply the self centered nature of prayer to people you know or met....
if yes,it would imply that.....prayer doesn't work......
Clearly somalia is still a hunger stricken wasteland....

sisterme...how would you react if lets consider that your parents were in "hell" and you in "heaven",and they pleaded with you to dip your hand in water over them....would you ignore them?
And would you be happy knowing the state of "eternal torture" they'd be in?

Hiswordxray:
This is the truth: God loves you and you need him.

I'm not in need of the christian "god" concept nor aware that it exists nor has any human emotions whatsoever...

You may try to fight it, harden you heart. But you know it true, that tiny voice in your heart proves it true.

It is very clear now that you are just preaching instead of having a conversation...how do you expect a realization of anything if you just want to hear yourself talk?

Why fight it?

Again.....? No offense but its become very common place to think I'm fighting "god"...when actually I'm asking for the claims to be justified....you can't fight the bogey man when there's nothing in the closet....

Why resist the call of love?

Call of "love"?...are you in anyway reading too many love texts?

All God what is to allow him express his love for you.

Then if that is true, all "it" has to do is show up.....and/or give justification for itself....if indeed such a thing as a "god" exists...

Would you turn your back to love and head towards hell.

Let me put it this way......some hooligans come to a shop and demand that the owner p pledges monetary funds to the mafia......obey and there'll be "peace"....disobey and they torture you...
How is that example different from worship "god" and you'll get everlasting life......don't and it'll send you to "..hell"
And "hell" means nothing to me either.....extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence...

What of if hell is real?

If in some way the christian "hell" is real and indeed disbelief gives you a ticket there and a being that called itself "loving" and "merciful" really made it..then I would have a 1st class trip there...
I'm not going to start believing a claim because of another unjustified claim to justify it....
If the greatest crime to the christian "god" is disbelief and not actually the deeds done....then your "god" is no different than a human tyrant....
Here is a little food for thought...
If hitler gave his life to "christ " before he died.....he'd be in "heaven"...And Nelson Mandela would instead be in "hell" for not doing so... after freeing a nation his reward would be an eternal punishment....still think the christian "god" concept is merciful?...

Are you going to ignore the fact that you might end up burning for eternity?

Unlike you I do not ignore posts...and know the difference between a fact and a claim....."hell" is a claim,not a fact.... facts can be proven and/or shown to be true...
And if you think the claim is a fact....why do you ignore other christian denomination versions of "hell"?......is yours more believable?
Now still considering if I went to hell......would my parents who are bible believing deacons in church still be in an orgas.mic state in "heaven" knowing that poor old davien is being roasted for eternity..

Well I know hell is not for you because God has chosen you for love and not for wrath.
Come now to him.

You know "hell" is not for me?...lol....
If "god" choses who gets in/out of "heaven/hell" then there isn't much I can do is there? This just implies that i'm going as scripted..

Hiswordxray:
I saw the anointing of God in him as he preach and I prayed to God in my heart. The preacher couldn't possibly hear me. And that was the first time a preacher called me and give me a word from God.
God was trying to reveal his love for me. God Almighty, the ruler of the whole universe has enough time to sit down and listen to my thought. He couldn't find anything better to do because to him I'm the most captivating thing in the whole universe.
Such love is what you long for. You can come up with logical argument but the truth is that you desire to experience the love of God.
If only you allow him he will unleash his untamed love on you. I tell you, his love will intoxicate you and you will find a satisfaction the world can't give.

In all fairness I appreciate the responses, but you are skipping my questions and instead proselytizing.....that isn't honest...

Hiswordxray:
I can't really say I found him but he found me. He revealed himself to me and I fell in love with him.

physically or through your mind and/or dreams?

Oh! how real is he, such a loving father.

If it isn't human,how can you qualify with a "he" and what makes you think this "he" is a "father" and not just posing as one?
Even still how can you tell if its not just your mind creating a buffer reality or imaginary friend?

At a time when I was passing through difficulty he told me he listens to my every thought and it breaks his heart to hear me worried.

Really?..."he" told you "he" listens and it "breaks his heart to hear you worried"?...how exactly did "he" tell you this...
All I want to know is if there is a determinant of finding out what's really there and what isn't......was there a way you used to determine this?

Then, I was still young in faith and I could hardly recognize his voice. So when I went to Church I told him if he was the one who spoke to me the other time, let the preach call me and tell me my present thought. And before that service was over the preach called me out and told me my thought.

Mind reading?...sorry but I can't take your claim of that....
And couldn't it be that your loud prayers made you known to the preacher?

Now I was sure it was God speaking.

How can you tell?...because a preacher read your mind?...haven't you read a passage in the bible about the girl with "the diving spirit"?....although I don't believe such claims in the bible but since you do.....how can you tell you aren't being led astray?

Ever since, God has shown me nothing but love even when I don't deserve it. And he loves you too, if only you allow him express his love for you.

Is this the same "god" that allegedly made a 24/7 eternal torture centre?

Hiswordxray:
I didn't found the right version of Christianity, I found God and if I can do it then you could also find God. Or are you afraid you will miss it, do you think you are one of those gullible people who can easily be deceived by pretenders. Well if you are scared I will help you find Christ.

Not scared.....only curious.
Now what exactly is the christian "god" and how did you know or became aware of such?

Hiswordxray:
There are many gullible Christians who has allowed themselves to be deceived in their search for Christ but I know you are wiser than them and you can find Christ even in the mist of 41,000 denominations.

Although i wouldn't call myself wiser....I would just like to know if any of the "god/gods" people have claimed are true...whether christian,hindu,etc....
And how do you know you've found the right version of christianity among the 41,000?

UyiIredia:
By survival I mean the desire to keep on life living. Like other words it has multiple connotations.

how does this relate to mythological beings?

There is a difference between "life" and "living"...

JackBizzle:
true....even the passing on of genetic codes gets messed up. So many disorders and mutations get involved

yup...

The only meaning that life shows is simply to pass on your genetic code....and it even messes up at that......
any other meaning while you are alive is up to you.
If you were meant to serve "god" you'd know about it....not be indoctrinated on it...
If you were meant to serve "yahweh" then everyone ever born since antiquity would be christian...
As you can see anyone that serves "god/gods" did so out of indoctrination,influence or "dreams"...not because it is true or anything demonstrate-able..
That is why to the theist,a "fo0l" is anyone that doesn't agree with them..........
Like a child that decides that anyone that doesn't agree with him is "stup1d"

Hiswordxray:
Wake up to the reality and stop being attached to shadows and types. Christ is the reality.

A reality of 41,000 denominations...

UyiIredia:
My premise is that all codes originate from minds not that codes have minds. That's your straw man of my premise.

No straw man was used here.....your statement led to the conclusion...
The broad statement of "all codes originate from minds" is a fallacy because a virus codes but doesn't have a mind....telling me a virus is merely a code doesn't suffice when you said this earlier

Uyilredia :
Yes. Both genomes and codes in computers are the same

So how are viruses synonymous to genomes(codes) ....
Infact a substantial amount of your dna are laden with endogenous retroviral insertions from viruses....

Softwares that make softwares eg Make en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_(software) don't have minds but they originated from minds.

You must understand here that....your broad statement that "all codes originate from minds" started this....and now you are arguing against your own premise that codes can also make codes...
First statement;
All codes originate from minds.
Second;
There are codes that can make code.
Deduction;
How can all codes come from minds if codes can make other codes and it would not be from a mind...?

Codes can And the all codes we know of originate from minds is true.

Rather any coded system made by humans came from our mind...

Again, there is ZERO evidence of natural systems making codes.

Rather no known mechanism.... abiogenesis demonstrates that the building blocks of life can very much be done by natural systems..

But men do so repeatedly. And animals to a lesser extent etc.

correct.....because we are reverse engineering them to acquire knowledge to as how they originated...

Hiswordxray:
When Christ come family will cease to exist, for every family is a shadow, a type and a representation of the real family which is the family of God. Your true dad is God, you true brothers and sisters are your fellow believers. This means that in heaven all your families are there for we would be one big happy family.

Stop tap-dancing around my question....
Will you still be in an orga.smic state when you are aware that your dad is being roasted for an eternity?
And by the way if families cease to exist....then whatever you that is in "heaven" is not really you.....because it is the experiences and impacts your loved ones had/has in you that constitutes a part of your ideals..
So removing those loved ones.....changes your ideals and since ideals make up who you are....it changes you....
I could jokingly say you're points makes the heaven idea into a matrix....where minds are altered upon entry to orgas.mic states.. lol

UyiIredia:
There are codes that can make codes confirm this from Seun. This is what is the case in those endogenous retroviruses. However the viruses were made by God.

So a virus is a code?...made by "god"? :O
Your premise is that all codes originate from minds...
A virus is a being(living/non-living) that can hijack cells and code dna..
Therefore a virus has a mind...since a code can originate from it...
The above deduction though incorrect is derived from your logic that "all codes originate from minds"....this fallacy occurs when you make broad statements about reality to describe concise things...
Moreover....it is good we've arrived here so far.....now can you tell me how you know biological nucleic acids were made by a specific something you label "god"...

Timmytimmy:
Thanks but I decline.

You decline showing me the alleged "bias statement" I made...how predictable....

Go back and read all your religious posts in NL.Somewhere along the line, it became more than the search for truth for you. It became about honour and pride.

Pride and honour in what?...a disbelief? Your premises never followed and you performed a lot of fallacies(mainly equivocation) in your argument....something someone who quests for truth can't stand...

However, the only thing I can tell you is, even if you you don't believe in God, try your best to love the ones who don't believe what you believe. Goodluck.

You don't have to tell me that....the best of friends I've ever had were theists, honest and intellectual theists at that....
If challenging the christian "god" claims makes you feel uneasy, do not present them in an open arena that can prompt responses and critiques...

NB: This is is probably the last time I'll quote you.

I am indifferent to you..

let's suspend our brains for just a minute and think about this;
If heaven exists...and you happen to be there, would you feel orga.smic anymore with the knowledge that your dad is in hell?

sonoflucifer...are you a luciferian?

ITbomb:
There was a reason the devil choose a woman to deceive first, they can be easily influenced and manipulated by what they see because they want to gain something .
Seun has chosen you wisely

Male chauvinism at its purest...

TimmyTimmy I could care less if you replied or not....just stop spewing willful dishonesty..
And if you feel I made any bias statement, by all means show me...

Proffdada:
cheap and weak counters, he has made it clear but u r still in denial to protect emptiness. better wake up from ur misconceptions and stick with the truth. 99% of the world population cannot be wrong

So you are proposing an argument of "majority"...
what you are saying is merely "if 99% believe this therefore its true" ....
If 99% believed the earth were flat in the middle ages,why wasn't it true?
If 99% believed in alchemy why wasn't it true?
If 99% believed in zeus creating lightning why wasn't it true?
If 99% believed in human sacrifice to "gods" does that make it true?
And if you can point any misconception that I have...mention it and lets correct that.

If you don't believe in santa,you live life like santa doesn't exist.....
The problem with theism is that it creates a false dichotomy in which disbelief would mean whatever is a negative of the character you give "god"...
If someone firmly says.... "you can't receive presents without a magical present giver(santa)" ...they have given a dichotomy in which believers of santa can have presents while disbelievers can't...
Same with "god"...whatever attribute you give "god", the negative of that would be labelled to unbelievers...
So people living life like "god" doesn't exist to a theist would mean they are immoral(if morality is attributed to the "god")...

Timmytimmy:
I'll start by stating that my perogative is to tell you why I'm not an atheist and to prove that atheism isn't a smart choice. It is self-defeating. In later posts l'll say my religion and why I have that believe system.

atheism isn't a choice...it is the rejection of belief...atheists don't pick and choose beliefs....but asks if they can be validated...until that is done, belief is suspended.

Firstly, the issue of an absolute Law is one that we cannot over look in our quest for truth.

I agree...

You asked me to show how religion explains Morality and ethics. I'll give a very simpe and logical answer to this and give an illustration from one of the most epic trials in History; the Nuremberg trials.

okay...

I never implicitly said our sense of moral is from God. You must understand that anything that deals with what is good and what is bad is purely a result of your environment and culture.

I agree(norms and mores)

What this means in essence is that an uncivilised person say a person living in the Amazon forest who happens to be a cannibal believes that eating people is good.
Murder means nothing to such a person. Stealing means nothing to such a person.

Cannibalism isn't always murder, not condoling such though...just want you to know that eating something already dead is still cannibalism but not murder..

Doesn't this follow that at some point in history there must have been a sort of revelation or giving of an Absolute Law or code of living by an entity that exists outside the universe?

so because an uncivilized person does uncivilized things...therefore an entity that you are inexplicably aware of living outside of the universe gave an "absolute law" and "code"?
So it's not because as hamlets,villages grew...people needed to figure out how to relate with one another....?

If man became moral beings on their own like I suspect you'll say, then what is our yardstick for measuring right and wrong? Is it just a random poll of what we all agree on?

Not a random poll....but rather an approach of finding out what are the best interest of people and to minimize or cease harm..

If atheism is true, there is no Moral Law in this universe? There is no absolute right and wrong!

replace atheism with disbelief in "god" and see how your statement is plain silly....
And can you point to one absolute right or wrong ethic?

To drive home my point, i'll paint a scene from the Nuremberg trial of the Holocaust.

okay..'

At the Nuremberg trials, there was a fascinating dialogue going on all the time about how these judges would defend themselves. The man that defended them kept on saying that they were operating according to the Laws of the Land.

okay....

Those laws validated the death of over 11 million people. The country validated those Laws!!!!

Correct,the killing of those people were defended by their laws....
Why we can call such as pure evil is because it violated the well being of millions and deliberately caused harm..
An absolute like "harm is bad"... gives us this result...

Finally, in frustration, somebody said "gentlemen, is there not a LAW above our Laws?

No...the only known thing that makes laws are people..

And if you ask an atheist, there is no law above our Laws.

And indeed it can be demonstrated by various laws governing various civilizations(past and present) that all were made by people......you can purposely try and prove me wrong...

I'll answer your next question about the galaxy in my next post.

....

I'll round up this one by saying, the fact that you have noticed inconsistencies in theism doesn't mean there aren't more in athiesm.

atheism.....is merely disbelief in "god/gods" because of the lack of evidence...
Any inconsistencies you see in atheism would be in large part due to what purpose you claim your "god" has..
If you say "god" is the source of love, you'd say atheism means no love exists.
If you say "god" gives absolutes, you'd say atheism means no absolutes exists.

Allow me to define atheism; it is not a believe that says I don't think there is a God. It is saying "I am sure that there is no God.

WRONG atheism simply is...this "I don't know god/gods(depending on definition) exists"
You sir have made your own definition to serve your purpose...

It is affirming a negative in the Absolute and that is an illogical conclusion. Why? It is equivalent to saying there is no tree with 500000 leaves anywhere in the umiverse.The only way to affirm that is to have unlimited knowledge of the universe.

And here we go....after building a straw definition of atheism you use it to demonstrate how illogical it is...
how is a disbelief=an affirmative negative...?
It is like saying I don't know=i know it isn't

Atheism says "I have infinite knowledge to say that there is no one's with infinite knowledge".

I am not even shocked anymore with the level of dishonesty you have...
You've created your own false definition of atheism and led it to slaughter..

Be right back.........Let's sit tight.

It's best you come to answer your misdeeds and equivocation fallacy....

Muyogoa:
if u don't know how to use ur device. I'll teach u. Click on this and stop doubting what God can do.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sleepers

And did you fail to read it as a legend?...or does a legend of a myth... prove the myth?

Proffdada:
does it take a rocket scientist?

Where are the peer reviewed postulations string theorists have given for the afterlife?

"god" has evolved to be in many places....from caves..to trees...to mountains...to the sky....to distant planets....to nowhere(spaceless/timeless)....to everywhere etc

Proffdada:
Funny atheists 'speculating' IF when the truth of afterlife is justified by string theory. Atheists are just scared of eternal damnation but it's never too late. Give ur lives to Christ

string theory and afterlife? I don't quite get you

Dayvhid
The idea of the christian "god" given in the bible is a character of self-praise and self-adoration...with a spice of pride..
It never mattered if 7 of jobs kids' died...as long as "god" is glorified..
Even today in nigeria...it doesn't matter if your relative died in a bomb blast,"god" would still be thanked..
It doesn't matter if tb joshua's synagogue killed hundreds,so long as "god" is glorified...
Afterall...the intended purpose of humans in christian mythology is to serve as puppets...worshipping and praising...