₦airaland Forum

The commandment is "thou shalt not kill" not "thou shalt not kill except in self-defense"

Ask yourself,if jesus killed those soldiers in self-defense for lashing him(allegedly), what message would that propagate?

In Christianity it's a virtue to aide your assailant even when you'd be killed(or at least that's what the New testament preaches)

EnlightenedSoul:
Care to expand?

Yes, strong atheists defend their position for the non-existence of "gods/god" using and evaluating the claim....

Something like this....

#1 Claim ;

X "god" is perfectly merciful and just...

Response ;

Mercy and justice cannot coexist because mercy is a suspension of justice....you can't suspend justice and still be just at the same time...this goes against the law of non-contradiction in logical thought..
Therefore such a thing/being is impossible....

An example would also be you can't eat your cake and have it.

The above claim and response would be a strong atheist' take for the non-existence of the "god/gods",from evaluating the claim.

Jesusloveyou:
i don't really care of d 'verse' but d meaning, it is only myopic mind that have false hope

I agree, the "biblical heaven" is an example of such false hope...Since it can't be verified or proven/disproven.

Jesusloveyou:
when u build on nothing,u get false hope,dis world is nothing,so don't build on dis world,in john 6 vs 63 jesus said d word that i speak are spirit,and such last for eternity.so build on what wil last for eternity.our hope in christ is for eternity.

what makes you think atheists care what "john 6 vs 63" says?

It was in a shady room where some dark figures passed a check for 4 billion naira to me....all I had to do was be an atheist..

Why is Nigeria predominantly homophobic?

peacelover15:
so guys, I was downloading this game of 935mb with 3g network ofcus while I was having lunch in my room....it was fast and downloaded up to 896mb wen I last checked, so wen I entered d kitchen to wash my plate after eating, I opened my fone. all 4 me to see this heartbreaking notice: downloading failed at 934mb out of 935mb just remaining 1mb to go.......I got mad , cus it was 1gig pack I subscribed.

what will you do if you were in my shoe.

All Android games can download and save the obb without failing, all you have to do is download and open the apk, it downloads the rest.

The same way a heterosexual is disgusted at homosexuals is how a homosexual is disgusted at heterosexuals...

So to calm things down, why not just report him on Facebook for stalking?! Afterall you have the evidence...

Anybody can be a sexual predator by the way....this is just one of those cases...

Jesusloveyou:
christianity is not a religion,i was once like u,even go deeper into philosophy,until i finally found christ.it is sin that enslave us,when u free ur mind from everything in this world,u wil see God urself.

The "I was once like you" theist is getting cliche....

Why not present your case instead of trying to gain credibility by claiming similar experiences?

EnlightenedSoul:
Yes, I understand your view. My post was written in reference to what you referred to as the "positive/strong" atheist. I've found that questioning a truly religious person, and a "strong" atheist draws some distinct (and interestingly similar) patterns and parallels. IME, at least. I still hold that they're essentially two sides to the same coin.

Actually strong atheists really do present their case very well....unlike strong theists.

Misogynist2014:
At least there is probability, no matter how minute that Christianity is true. This probability, no matter how minute, cling I unto it with faith and hope. These two things I have but you don't.

what is the probability....you don't just say "It's probable" without having a number...

malvisguy212:
Jesus lived what He preached.

How did you know that?
If it's by reading and accepting claims that support your argument wouldn't the reverse be the case for people that accept the non-canon accounts of "jesus" being a deviant?

His
followers preached what He lived and then wrote it down. The new testament writer where not historian,they were
common men and excepting Paul,
Luke, and possibly Matthew .

But does education or
high position guarantee honesty or
accuracy? Surly only GOD himself could've inspired this men to write this gospels.

It's true, high position doesn't guarantee honesty.....that's why extraordinary claims by less honorable people are far less taken as credible...
Plus we don't just take things at face value by people of high position....evidence must also support it..

Come to think of it. Jesus’ first-century enemies published nothing to deny the
resurrection ; True, why would they?Yes,
His body was missing and there
were disturbing resurrection rumors,
but why would His enemies publish
written accounts denying an event they claimed never happened?

Ask yourself one thing....
Did ancient people refute their own myths?

An example is our yoruba myths, did any yoruba person at the time refute the myth? Adjustment not.

And because they didn't doesn't automatically make it true...

No physical evidence for the resurrection: True, but what physical evidence should we expect? Religious and Roman authorities never produced Jesus’ body to quell growing resurrection rumors even though they had every motivation (and the manpower) to find Jesus’ body and put an end to these But they didn’t.

lol.....
If nobody ever recorded a historical "jesus" not even listed the extraordinary events the character was involved in then what body do you expect them to look for?
Regardless of whether believers tagged an empty tomb as the characters resting place, it's as much an evidence as an empty vase of cookies means the cookie monster was responsible...

you guys (atheists) always claimed to be interlingent, but have you guys ever ask this questions?

Those aren't even questions to begin with, they are a confirmation bias that most Christians bring up to try to rationalize faith....

Weah96:
Let me summarize:

The big claims in the bible may be true because the bible is correct about other historical details. Examples:

1. The bible said that Jacob's well was DEEP and today we know that the well is DEEP.

2. When describing Peter's roommate in Joppa, the bible says that he was a tanner whose house was by the ocean. Today we know that tanners of animal skin used ocean water to make their final product.

3. When describing the ship that ran aground with Paul on it, the bible says that it had two rudders. Ships today have only one.

Well by your logic spider-men too may be real, why?

1. Spider-Man grew up at 20 Ingram street,Queens.

The address exists in real life,and the family that lives there is the Parkers.

2. The paper,New York Times is a real paper....

3. The empire state building where spider-man fought the green goblin is real...And is actually a building just like the movie described(gasp! )

Therefore why would anyone makeup spider-man based on these facts if it's not real

Lol.... I dunno who had the time to read all that copy-paste work,and you keep bombarding people with a drawing of some guy burning as though that's a good reason to believe you.

NEWBIN:
in the past, some were flogged, crucified, tortured all in the name of the gospel, YET THEY REJOICED.

if you are merely making mockery of a believer today, the believer should simply be glad

I think you don't know what your fellow christians did to spread that "gospel"....people were also tortured,raped, beaten, enslaved, families separated,etc

And now you'll close an eye and say you're the victim.

Unbias:
Pls read the article in the link below. Its titled ' WHY YOU CAN BELIEVE THE BIBLE'. I do not expect you to believe in Christ's ressurection since you consider the NT gospels as mythologized history.

You are probably not aware that other writers in the New Testament aside those of the synoptic and John confirmed the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ on account of which they also suffered and martyred. You may have also forgotten that the Jewish Talmud and other early historians acknowledged the existence of a man called Yeshua/Jesus.
http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html

You're basically using a circular argument here....lol

New testament writers are evidence of "jesus" existence as the author of Harry potter is evidence of hogwards'

And perhaps you don't know that early historians were mostly Christians for the first half of western development....

EreluY:
[size=15pt]@ davien, many thanks for the rebuttal. Lazy indoctrinated Nigerians don't see beyond their nose. The latest scholarship on this subject matter is Richard Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus" published last year (2014) by Sheffield Phoenix Press Ltd. A 712 pages long, that has been robustly and positively reviewed in leading biblical studies journals, it is the second book of a two volume set, the first being "Proving History: Bayes’s Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus" (Prometheus Books, 2012). Both works, for many biblical scholars, succeeded in demolishing the historicity of Jesus. Why Nigerians keep believing in trash called religion is beyond me.[/size]

My pleasure...Most Nigerians don't have decent education on matters like religion and it's taught in schools by Christians/Muslims so they basically preach to them over and over again till they hear it so much they literally believe it..

Misogynist2014:
But you don't doubt the existence of Aristotle and Confucius, even when they Lived before Him. Every myth has a similar tone, why is it that Bible dates its own myth? Even when there are opposition to this link, you hold it true because they say what you wish to hear. Even Jewish Rabbis don't deny His existence.
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to
sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own
desires and will look for teachers who will tell them
whatever their itching ears want to hear.

That's because Aristotle and confucius have well detailed histories and left behind better evidences of their existence...

Even when most of their works(particularly confucius) was destroyed...historians recorded the events.

It's not the situation where accounts predates and oversee the event or person by centuries and contradict each other...

And then again, "jesus" existence wouldn't legitimize the bible....just like the existence of New York doesn't legitimize spider-man.

striktlymi:
What are you talking about?
Don't make me question your ability to read and comprehend.
Go back to the original post and find where you lost it.

Let's examine both posts then...

striktlymi:
I tend to go with sonOfLucifer as regards 'different ecistence' or realities for man and ants.

davien:
Okay, does that change anything?

I understand that you'd like to think that people, ants, cats have different "realities" but this is fallacious in the sense that we(all of the above beings) interact together and their actions and causes effect each other...this wouldn't be the case if the reality aren't all shared with these beings....

What you and your cohort were to say was that perception varies in reality....not "different realities"..

Striklymi it's your own intelligence that needs to be questioned here,I responded to you both regarding your "different realities" and now you're tap-dancing...

macof:
Ok my post was a waste but that was so your life won't be a waste

Why not let's start of by you telling how you find truths in a compilation of books that have no verified authors...Romans could have written them

macof, if you read her replies you'd notice she's the type of person that takes words like "probably,could be,likely" to mean you don't know for certain...

An2elect2:
There are no sects in Christianity. All Christians are one by virtue of the single spirit of Christ in us. Others are tares that would be removed out and burned at the end. It is because of them that we seem divided but we are not.

Actually there are over 40,000 sects...


As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian denominations

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

Unbias:
JESUS’ EXISTENCE. That Jesus was a historical individual is granted by virtually all historians and is supported by ancient Christian, Jewish, and pagan sources. Yet modern skeptics often feel that their best strategy for denying the evidence of his resurrection is to deny that he even existed.

Most antiquities scholars think that the New Testament gospels are “mythologized history.”
In other words, they think that around the start of the first century a controversial Jewish rabbi named Yeshua ben Yosef gathered a following and his life and teachings provided the seed that grew into Christianity.



http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-reasons-suspect-jesus-never-existed

JESUS’ DEATH. The most popular counter to the Resurrection in non-Christian and heretical beliefs is to deny that Jesus died on the cross (e.g., this is the position of Islam). However, historians regard the death of Jesus by crucifixion as ordered by Pontius Pilate to be as historically certain as any other fact of antiquity.





CRUCIFIED MESSIAH. Crucifixion was a horrible, shameful way to die, so much so that it would never have occurred to anyone in the first century to invent a story about a crucified man as the divine Savior and King of the world. Something extreme and dramatic must have happened to lead people to accept such an idea—something like his rising from the dead.

JOSEPH’S TOMB. All four Gospels agree that Jesus’ body had been buried in the rock tomb owned by Joseph of Arimathea, a member of the Jewish high council (the Sanhedrin). This is an unlikely Christian fiction, because Christians blamed the Sanhedrin for their role in having Jesus executed.

WOMEN WITNESSES. The four Gospels all agree that the first persons to find the tomb empty were Jewish women, including Mary Magdalene. It is very unlikely that anyone would make up such a story, since women’s testimony was devalued compared to men’s and since Mary Magdalene was known as a formerly demon-possessed woman. If the empty tomb story were fiction, one would expect that Joseph of Arimathea, already identified as the tomb’s owner and a respected male leader, would be credited with the discovery.

ANCIENT THEORIES. The earliest non-Christian explanations for the origin of the Resurrection belief (mentioned in John and Matthew) were that the body had been taken from the tomb—either moved to another burial place or stolen to fake the Resurrection. These explanations conceded three key facts: Jesus died; his body was buried in Joseph’s tomb; the tomb was later found to be empty.

TOMB WAS GUARDED. Critics routinely dismiss Matthew’s story about the guards being bribed to say that they fell asleep, giving the disciples opportunity to steal the body (Matt. 28:11-15). But Matthew would have no reason to make up the story about the guards being bribed except to counter the story of the guards saying they fell asleep (see v. 15). Either way, the guards were there: the body had been in the tomb, the tomb had been guarded, and the body was no longer there.

PAUL AND LUKE’S INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTS. Paul’s list of resurrection witnesses in 1 Corinthians 15:5-7 coincides with Luke’s account at several points, but in wording and in what is included Luke’s account is clearly independent of Paul. For example, Paul calls Peter by his Aramaic nickname “Cephas,” not Simon or Peter; he refers to “the twelve,” Luke to “the eleven”; Luke does not mention the appearances to James or the five hundred. Thus Paul and Luke give us independent accounts of the appearances they both mention.

CLOPAS AND THAT OTHER GUY. Luke gives the name of one of the two men on the road to Emmaus who saw Jesus (Clopas) but not the name of the other man. If he was making up names he would presumably have given both of the men names. The fact that he identifies only one of the two men by name is best explained if that man, Clopas, was the source of Luke’s account. In short, this fact is evidence that the account came from an eyewitness.

BROTHER JAMES. Although Luke does not mention the resurrection appearance to James (the Lord’s brother) mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 6, Luke does report that James had become a leading member of the apostolic group (see especially Acts 15:13-21). Since Jesus’ brothers had rejected Jesus during his lifetime (John 7:5), Paul’s reference to Christ appearing to James is probably based on fact.

JOHN’S EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT. The author of the Gospel of John emphatically states that he was an eyewitness of the death of Jesus, of the empty tomb, and of resurrection appearances of Jesus (John 19:32-35; 20:2-9; 21:7, 20-25). Either he sincerely had these experiences or he was lying; appeals to legend or myth are out of the question here.

ANCIENT SKEPTICISM. Luke reports the skepticism of the men disciples the morning the tomb was found empty (Luke 24:22-24), and John reports Thomas’s skepticism about Jesus’ resurrection (John 20:24-26). These accounts (see also Acts 17:32; 1 Cor. 15:12) demonstrate that the perception of ancient people as gullible hayseeds who would believe any miracle story is a modern prejudicial stereotype.

PAUL’S CONVERSION. Paul was a notorious persecutor of the early Christians prior to his becoming an apostle. His explanation, that Christ appeared to him and called him to faith and the apostolic ministry, is the only plausible explanation for his 180-degree change. Moreover, Paul’s experience was entirely independent of the experience of the other apostles.

PAUL’S GENTILE MISSION. Paul’s encounter with the risen Jesus did not result merely in him accepting Jesus as the Jews’ Messiah. Instead, he saw himself, a trained and zealous Pharisee, as commissioned by Jesus to take the good news of the Messiah to uncircumcised Gentiles. The fact that Paul embraced such a calling against his former passionate beliefs and training makes any appeal to hallucination or delusion implausible.

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/03/14-evidences-for-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ-and-14-references/?nabe=6241452902318080:0

The rest are answered here...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUZOZN-9dc

DProDG:
What is personal about say the church of Mormons?

If you believe the earth is flat, good for you. If you decide to make it public and build institutions based on that how to you expect to be ignored?

It will be stupid to give false/dangerous beliefs a pass just because they are "personal". That's why we have schools.

Just imagine how much intellectual damage the creation museum is doing now.

An2elect2:
i think speaking to a wall will be more fruitful. bye papist we don't worship the same Christ.

And so begins another Christian sect.....

striktlymi:
You are deviating from the point and arguing something else.

'Humans do not exist in the same way as ants'

That statement takes differences in perception into consideration.

when did I remotely say that?
I said the contrary, are you doctoring your position of "different realities"?

striklymi I have little patience for liars....

Hiswordxray:
"Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” (John 11:40)
All you need to do is believe and asks from those who had seen God in His glory.

Bible proves Bible true again...

An2elect2:
why is it any of your business what goes on in Christendom!

since you have rejected truth, learn to maintain your lane of lawlessness.

lawlessness?

So an atheist is automatically a criminal?

Nigerians always throwing a fit over their borrowed religion even more than the first established one...

Misogynist2014:
Jesus died for our sins and we are saved by His grace. E.g. 1000 robbers are to be executed and a man comes out to die for them, isn't it right to say he died their sins and died a thousand deaths? What if 100 refuse to accept he was being killed for their sake? Aren't they to be lined up and executed accordingly?

Nobody accepts human sacrifice for crimes anymore in modern because it's more detrimental than beneficial...

Imagine a civilization where one innocent person is killed for another person's crime, would crime cease when perpetrators can easily sacrifice a person each time a crime is committed?

Or it basically has soap opera effects...

sonOfLucifer:
The beginning of fanaticism. What happened to everyone has a right to believe what they want?

lol.... DProPG He's butturt after making a baby of himself...so he's ressurecting my topics.

Because everyone can believe what they want to believe doesn't mean you can't point out delusional beliefs and dangerous concepts....

Sonoflucifer you have no problem telling Christians how delusional they are....but to just defend one claim you made you turn into the delusional one.