₦airaland Forum

Lizabeth25:
For God so love the world, that He gave HIS ONLY begotten son, that whosoever shall believe in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.



John 3:16

Just dont allow people to deceive you. All you need is the Almighty God.

Everlasting life? You seem to think I'm the deceived one, yet you're the one operating by the faith in the works of numerous jewish authors...

jes7:
This is a very weak argument. you don't need to know who created the creator to believe there is a creator. for instance you don't need to know who created Bill Gate to accept microsoft was made by him.
again, this question of who created the creator will only be necessary if we are talking about a created God; the Christian God is not a created God!

But we can see Bill gates can't we?...so by logical deduction,as the example shouldn't we also see "god" too?

Nicklaus:
Just like you want me to buy the idea that donbenie is an all knowing Anti-christian. Of course I ll be surprise since we are originally traditional set before the existence of christianity and islam. So basically we lots are rooted from a set of traditional beliefs which leaves me convinced that a Nigerian can be any of those three religions. And also whoever isn't part of these religion came from an origin part of it. That means you lots chose the supposedly easiest and the most uncharitable part of culture to suit your pocket and selfish way of life. And to take you for a LIE that you are did you say it's less stressful to be religious Trust me nothing feels less stressful than claiming to be an atheist. Come on, if i m sick of doing charitable work and serving the one true God, being an atheist is the best medicine.

I still engage in charity work....does that transform me to a theist?...

And I doubt simplicity equates to atheism....arguably you're the one relaxed with a 7-day creation, bats being birds, global floods, witches, wizards, giants,etc

All these are basic qualities of a fairy tale(this isn't an insult, you can check it for yourself)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_tale

Idrismusty97:
Wrong. You can't have bullshîts problems when you don't believed in bullshîts. Understand?

It's very hard for theists to think people don't believe in any "god/gods"....so anyone and everyone they meet they'd likely think he/she also operates on a belief system.

Belief systems make life easy for a theist....do's and don'ts with a moral significance attached to it are all they think they need...And are all they were brought up to ever consider.

If they were confronted with "jains" they'd still want to believe they(the jains) believe in a creator....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism_and_non-creationism

Lizabeth25:
hmmmm.

liz,I appreciate the fact that your responses aren't to attack me.....but as two human beings with cognitive abilities I think we can come to terms that the bible,nor a belief in "god/gods" is required for anything...
What I want you to realise is that the doctrine debunks itself...from two people populating a species without lose of vigour to stars falling to the earth and can be trampled on.

barnabas91:
Hahaha. The pastor av to refer to d bible on his quotation and I must hear from God as well. Shikena

so pastors have never told you what you never allegedly heard from "god"

I guess people don't know what "alleged" means anymore....

Hawlahscho:
Why did you say what 47 ppl should av said

I know it's lengthy, but I don't like dishonesty...I'd always try to expose it completely than let someone be deceived.
Beliefs influence actions...

Lizabeth25:
Hmmmmm......dear, the true love is God. He gave us His only son to die for you and I. How many people can do that?

Other religions too claim the same thing....from mithra...to Atun...etc what makes yours different?

Lizabeth25:
Hey, we are both here to learn......If God is not love, then who is Love? the devil?

I lack the belief in both...

ILIDEFI:
You tried in your write up, but ut still has some flaws.

Okay...

You said atheists don't have to believe anything, but at least they believe there is no God who created the universe, unlike theists.

Don't you think "believe" is not the word to be used?

I mean every theist has a different "god-belief",and so to a muslim you don't believe in "god"...

Moreso to establish that something is "believed" means it has to be an option or logical conclusion.

Take for example,I believe there are no cats in my house...

You'd realise that one must know what a "cat" is before making such a statement...

And when it comes to "god/gods",it's about convincing people that a "god/gods" is/are an option...

Atheists are skeptical of this option,so we aren't convinced of it....making it non-existent.

It's like I approach you that you have a fjorkulat behind you, you ask me what it is.....but I give you a comprehension that defies your ability to ever really know if it's there...

I tell you it's a spherical-cubic(this is physically impossible) invisible dragon that lures around good people and heats up the place when anyone bad approaches you...

Now how can you disprove such a thing or even fathom it's there?...can you see it,no....can you detect it,no....so what's the difference between it not being there to begin with.

Hence you'd tell me, you're not convinced.

Why are you battling to differentiate 'believe' and 'accept'? Can you accept what you don't believe in? Even in Merriam Webster dictionary, one of the definitions of 'believe' is:
"to ACCEPT something as true, genuine, or real".

That is the point,a mis-usage of those words would imply faith....I accept the theory of gravity can be switched to I believe the theory of gravity....making lay people think it's a contrast of faith.

You said we've witnessed first hand the birth of planets and starts? I disagree with you. I'd rather say that new planets and stars are being discovered, with advancement in astronomy.

Please and please...go and look up observed accretion events..

We've observed planet formation dozens of times....perhaps you need to read through the observations...

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=observed+planet+formation+events&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=5qAKVb2jLMusUYOmgpgI&ved=0CBkQgQMwAA

None of the astronomists can prove with certainty that those planets and starts were just formed.
Even if they are, can He who formed the universe not advance it further?

You've exposed yourself already....you've already established that if I provide you with the evidence of the contrary you'd merely say... "god did it"....which of course would be fine to you but it provides problems to your belief....in that the universe is not fully formed yet....but the bible claims it's already been...

If new things are still being formed this instant then doesn't it contradict your doctrine of everything being magically created fully formed?

You also said work gets rearranged into different forms of which part of it can be matter...

Yes....work is useful energy.

That's not what Newton law says. It states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed but converted from one form (of energy) to another (not converted to matter) .

I guess they don't teach physics like they used to...

If I may ask,how do you consider element formation from fusion and fission of electrons....

http://www.alternativephysics.org/book/MatterEnergy.htm


Under the right conditions, energy can become mass, and vice versa.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/legacy-of-e-equals-mc2.html

You can't convert energy to matter. You can only convert energy to energy, for example solar energy is converted to heat or electrical energy, chemical energy in petrol is converted to mechanical energy etc.

You're going against einsteins equation of matter-energy conversion e=mc2...

The extent of conversion between matter and energy is governed by the famous relativistic energy equation E=mc2. Essentially this equation tells us that the total amount of energy available in a given amount of mass (if the mass could be fully converted to energy) is determined by multiplying mass by the speed of light squared.

http://www.alternativephysics.org/book/MatterEnergy.htm

By and by, your rebuttal is also flawed, just like the original post has some flaws considering that the op mentioned most atheists, rather than some.

I believe I've presented how "flawed" it is..
You've shown everyone here how "knowledgeable" you are of science and how that "knowledge" affects your belief.

By the way, I believe in God and I'm a Christian. I don't have answers to everything about the earth or creation, but I still choose to believe.

Nobody said you have answers....and It doesn't really affect your "counter rebuttal" if you're a christian or not.

slogozer:
Don't worry about what you are; agnostic or non-agnostic atheist. Worry about the fact that you have heard the gospel(good news) severally. At the right time before the Judge of the earth (hopefully for rewards and not for sentencing) you will realise like all the other AGNOSTIC ATHEIST before you that no one chooses his father or mother.

My wonderful friend, The Bible on the last day will be a WITNESS to this day(hopefully to paradise). shalom!

Yes I've heard the "gospel"
,and I've spent my time even preaching it before I became an atheist.

I've also been exposed to different denominations of "the gospel",in all that,no one ever presented anything as proof....

it's all faith,and that is an admission to not having any evidence.


Your faith is no different than an idol worshipper,no different than a budhist,hindu,mithraist,etc...

And the issue is people willing to lie and dumb down society just to promote their faith.

Lizabeth25:
Hmmmmmm.



Depends on you! If you confess your sins, refuse to sin again, and accept God as your all, me think that people wrongs will be erased.

I know you've just realised it.....love doesn't keep a record of wrongs.....but "god" does(atonement for sins is a record of wrongs)..
So "god" isn't love....because love doesn't keep a record of wrongs.

slogozer:
[b][/b]

Calm down brother. Let frustration be far removed from your heart. There are more important things in life than hating and 'angrying' about Christians. Peace is quite elusive in this world without adding those.

It is only one life and the last I know there are no hate discrimination to those close and near to us all who are answering the transition BUS STOP of DEATH.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. I am sure deep down your heart you are hungry for the truth.

Read with me Revelations 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The QUESTION I leave with you is "what if the above is true".

Something tell me you used to be a strong Christian or you have been exposed thorough in the truth. Do not live in self-denial.

I leave you with Micah 6:6-8

6 Wherewith shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Whoa whoa whoa, back up fella.....frustation isn't equal to anger....I'm not angry with christians....it's just that nowadays there are a large group willing to lie to make people follow them...and i'm frustrated at that.

And sorry to say but those bible verses mean nothing to me, I'm an agnostic atheist.

Lizabeth25:
Yes, God is love.

Okay, does love keep a record of wrongs?

Before we make any conclusion....let me ask a question,is "god" love?

gbl01:
There be many unaswerwd questions abt creation, abt religion and abt life and most times death becomes the answer.

Even Darwin got rattled at the functionality of the eye, though later atheist tried to explain it out. some get confused at the complexity of life and pick a less confusing side.

If you read the origin of species....you'd realise that he made a lot of predictions(testable hypothesis) that could be used to prove his theory....he also explained how the eye could have arisen by small incremental steps of changes..

From photo-sensitive cells to eyes....and that's just the trend we see in micro-fossils...
If you really want to understand evolution...I could direct you to some videos.

Infomizer:
Baba, you forgot to mention the impact of air resistance in making this possible...#JustSaying

You are right,I just get so frustrated over this so called "christians" and their efforts to discredit anything rational.

thoth:
@ lastmessenger
1. so how do you propose to cause the change of heart for the leaders ?

2. What would you do when those ones that does not fear "god" comes to you with their war gears pillaging what you worked so hard for ?

Simple.....he'll pray, that works right?

michaelwestern:
On the surface it appears that atheists only believe in scientific facts

No,a large number of atheists aren't rationalists...And those that are,don't have to "believe in" anything....you're merely equivocating(exchanging the words) "believe in" instead of "accept" to conjure a resonance of faith...

but when you dig deep you will realise that most of what they believe in requires blind faith.

This is already a fallacy in itself....

Starting by equivocating words to imply faith....you then moved forward to attach your misunderstanding of a scientific theory....

Let us see where this leads to.

Take for example the big bang theory, which most atheists believe in.

In the very same context you're using....it could be said that atheist(more specifcly,the rationalists) also "believe in"(the appropriate term is accept) Newtonian physics....does that magically turn gravity into a belief?

Even so,your dishonest presupposition(pre-concluded assumption) falls apart when you've already said "most atheists"....so you're also generalizing your observation based on a selected group.

Lets proceed.

How can a sensible human being believe that chaos created this wonderfully designed earth?

Tell me what you mean here...because I need you to define your terms here....

And I also question the basis for calling the earth "designed"....what is the determinant of a designed earth?....can you provide or tell me how an undesigned earth would look like...so as to know?

And the reality we share doesn't remotely favour common sense.

Our intuition would tell us that between an egg and a boulder,dropped at the same time and from the same height....that the boulder should hit the ground first(because it's heavier)....but reality differs....

They both hit the ground at the same time(in fact, this is a standard test in physics to demonstrate that our intuitions doesn't matter to any event at play....until demonstrated)

And we've actually witnessed firsthand' the birth of planets and stars from chaotic supernovae...what would you call that?

how can randomness produce a very complex entity like a human being and other living things.

I doubt any rationalists would say "randomness", but I see perfectly what you're doing...

You're trying to misrepresent the secular position of existence to somehow give your belief a more sane appearance....

The rebuttal I have for this pathetic dishonest misrepresentation is this....

Nature is probabilistic...not entirely random and not entirely ordered,and neither is it neutral(this may shock you ofcourse).....


Lets observe the cell wall....more specificly the semi-permeable membrane....it is a phospholipid bilayer of naturally occuring compounds.

On exposure to water,it's properties(which are determined by the head group and it's chains) form the bilayer by extending its hydrophobic(water dreading) layer in and it's hydrophilic(water loving) layer out...forming the "bilayer" in the process,that keeps the membrane from being permeated by everything(hence the term "semi-permeable"


Note that this function operates due to contrasting features that do not go together(i.e the hydrophobic effect)....but because of probabilistic qualities it encounters...it serves as a building block of cells...literally the walls.

This goes against a law in science that things go from orderliness to disorderliness and not vice versa.

I doubt you know the "law" you're talking about, may we know what this law is called and it's full implications....Is it thermodynamics?

Because if it is,you should have known that "order" and "disorder" in thermodynamics are referred to as "entropy" and entropy actually has values(I.e J/k )...and the total entropy of a system is determined by the work(useful energy)....

And since energy isn't created or destroyed(1st law) ....work gets rearranged into different forms(2nd law)....ofwhich one of those forms is matter.... (2nd law)

Consequently, i believe that it requires more faith to be an atheist than to be a theist. God bless you all.

This is the hypocrisy of it all, after equivocating and misrepresenting everything you can....you then thank those who subscribe to the same faith you do...for support...

Good job, by this rate the well knowledgeable would depart from your religion after witnessing the extents used to retain the belief.

Gosh so tired, it takes much work to expose a lie than to tell it...And I believe I've exposed you quite well...

Anyone willing to know any of this should either go to a noteable school of thought, library , google, etc lol

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_bilayer

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/therm/entrop.html

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_%28order_and_disorder%29

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobic_effect

jackymfon:
I hope you don't swallow your words...

Hoping is all you do...you hope your belief is true...you hope you are going to a magical place after death....you hope you'd meet your loved ones again....

Let's take it from the top....

Jews haven't seen their alleged "saviour" yet...

Christians claim they have and it died but it'll be back soon..

Muslims claim the "saviour" is just a prophet and the only one needed is just their "god" and it's prophet..

All these are middle eastern....have no proof and modelled their "god/gods" after the theme of their soceity(kingship,thrones,altars,burnt offerings,sacrifices,etc)....

mmsen:
The same people who claim that these children who were murdered by god because they would have grown up to become evil are the first ones to get angry when someone brings up abortion.

And euthanasia...

Hiv testing is made mandatory in some hospitals...it's done to create awareness about the pandemic and to minimise infection rates....the more knowledgeable you are of your status...the better the condition that it can be contained in.

Nowadays treatment is available to retain the virus' full effect on your system through a cocktail of anti-retroviral drugs...

So either start the treatment or perform further testing if you aren't satisfied.
And hiv/aids does not stop you from having a full and fulfilled life.

johnydon22:
and you think that strange? woooooow... #MakesSense...

he seems to think that from the beginning of time,solar eclipses didn't happen on that day..

I could only imagine the generations of christians who have fantasized about this from each of their time periods,and how they've all failed to experience this fantasy...

johnydon22:
A woman can start puberty at 13………so?

That isn't even the case.....the case is, is giving a child who doesn't/hasn't had the time to develop out for marriage a moral thing?

That cross is an execution device, you draw morality from that?

weemee:
and why don't you dude?

They have no sound basis.....

I just love dogs.....highly social creatures,one only needs to wonder what they'd do if they had human digits and knowledge.

weemee:
Let me ask first. What faith are you?

I don't have a faith....I'm an agnostic atheist.

Don't people know what allegedly means anymore? It's a claim, that's it....the "informant" merely claimed it was the commissioner...jumping to conclusions because of what some random guy said is not the way to go.....atleast we'd need evidence to make any conclusion...