₦airaland Forum

Katsumoto: That is twisted logic. There is no political movement that is based on Awo's political philosophy. Those guys conformed to party ideology back then when the core Awoists - Awo, Onabanjo, Rewane, Ajasin, Ige were around. Did Jakande and Babatope, who were supposedly core Awoists not turn their backs on those principles for 12 pieces of silver?

Abeg there are no Awoists in Nigerian politics today.

Ige and Adesanya, were some of the leaders who oversaw the consensus candidacy of 1999 or they too werent Awoist?

Katsumoto: And then lost them all in 2003 except for Lagos.

And they regained them by another consensus selection of candidates

Katsumoto: Finding a consensus candidate is not the same thing as cancelling the primary. Primaries must still be held.

If all the power brokers have found and agreed on a consensus candidate then the primary is just to announce the result of the decision

Ola one: He is now a toothless bulldog, all thanks to the all-conquering Lion Tinubu.


he who pays the piper goes the popular saying

He cant because he also benefitted from the consensus of the AD because Omisore was going to win the AD Party primaries but the Afenifere leaders headed by Bola Ige and Adesanya chose Bisi Akande as governor of Osun

Afam4eva: It's not about whether it violates laws or not but about practicing what you preach. If ACN chieftains can tell us that they're not democrats, we won't kill them. But it reeks of hypocrisy when the same people who shout democracy from Monday to Friday, january to december cannot even practice the same democracy in their party. It's a shame and you should be ashamed of yourself for defending such. You would have been singing a different song had it been PDP that was selecting candidates.

Stop embarrassing yourself. What has Clinton and Hillary clinton got to do with the subject. Was Hilarry elected or selected? Whats the Bush's family elected or selected? What the heck is your point exactly?

If they were not practising democracy then INEC would have banned them right?

ACN makes it clear to everyone they select candidates within the party to contest election.

If its against the constituion or against democracy we practise then INEC should call them to other

Anything else is hot air

Ola one: Akande was Oyo State Deputy Governor in 1979.

A real and potent period for Awoism

So an Awoist Akande is now overseeing and defending selection processes within the ACN

Katsumoto: And guess what happened to the SW after Pa Adesanya and others selected candidates instead of having proper primaries.

WHat happened? The AD won all SW states in the 1999 elections

Ola one: Akande has been around for sometime.
He was prominent in the '80s

Akande was deputy to Bola Ige

Ola one: My question to you though: Is consensus candidacy democratic?

Yes it is

E.g in the UK brand of democracy Most PM's are chosen by consensus (Not sure)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71077.html

Katsumoto: You are correct - Osoba was no Awoist.

Was Akande, Abraham Adesanya and others who chose Tinubu and other AD candidates in 1999 Awoist

Ola one: Don't help them to embellish their lies. What is consensus? Who and who reached this consensus? Occupants of Bourdillon? Something forced down their throat by Tinubu.

With Tinubu, his stock in trade is "take it or get it lumped down your throat"

Does the venue of the meeting count?

Several UPN meetings were held in Ikenne the hometown of the UPN leader

Katsumoto: If candidates are selected by consensus, why not have primaries then? That way, everyone has a vote and votes are tallied. That's much better than everyone meeting in Tinubu's house, Tinubu selecting a candidate, and all the donkeys present saying 'Yes baba, lion of Bourdillon, Jagaban, etc.' Consensus just means others nodding their heads like blockheads.

The party leaders like Akande, Osoba etc who were prominent Awoists have their own way of choosing candidates

“If election within our party is what you are trying to describe as internal democracy, then we reject such idea. Can we impose when we are contesting against PDP?

Party knows what people want

“But we can do something within our party if the leadership of the party feels that that is the best thing. This is because it is the leadership of the party that understands the manifestoes of the party and knows what the people really want.

“This is not a matter of an individual but the party. Nobody should accuse ACN of imposition because that is our style. Anyone that is not comfortable with that should go and contest in another political party. So if you see anyone carrying placard around, he is wasting his time.

We know the efforts we made before the party becomes what it is today and where were they when we were making the efforts. It is when they saw that the party is popular that they were attracted to it and we don’t expect them to come and hijack the party because of their dirty money.”

- See more at: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/01/why-acn-imposes-candidates-akande/#sthash.9udNrN7q.dpuf

Ola one: Imagine a young woman like her in a position meant for our grandmas.

This represents an assault on our tradition.

Fear no even catch the yeye girl

Is there an age cut off for the position?

Afam4eva: It's not about violating laws but about putting democratic values to practice especially when you preach these same values. If that's the case then ACN or Tinubu has no moral value to call PDP or Jonathan out on any issue related to democracy. Infact, PDP despite their shortcomings still manages to conduct a primary election everytime yet people who don't do same will be the ones criticizing them. Progressives indeed.

Try and talk like an intellectual and not with emotions

Democracy is governed by law and protected by the constitution. Thats why election disputes are settled by courts and grey areas taken to supreme courts

Democracy isnt governed by morality or whatever as whats moral is skewed by human emotions

Once again what law has ACN violated.

If Party XYZ choose their candidates by visiting Amadioha shrine as long as it doesnt violate the law or constitution then all is fair

Clinton was President, His wife was a Senator and still trying to be President.
George H Bush was President, His father was senator, His first son was Governor of Texas, His other son Governor of Florida

A narrow minded individual like you would say "Is it only them" the Intellectuals would ask "Have they flouted the law in any way" Thats what the biggest democracy understands that laws govern us not morality.

If the ACN is violating any law then INEC should sanction them as deemed appropriate

Katsumoto: If there were no primaries, how did Solomon lose the ticket to Fashola?

Solomon among others sought the party ticket

Fashola was given the ticket via consensus just like all ACN candidates since inception of the party.

Yorubaman40: He had d ticket or attempted to hijack d ticket from Solomon ? If not for those that lectured Tinubu on d implications.

In 2007 Solomon was contesting for Governorship against Fashola and Bola Tinubu was contesting for Senate.

After Solomon lost the ticket to Fashola, Tinubu stepped down for him to get the Senate ticket

Get your facts straight

Desola: probably because I had erroneously held you in a partially higher capacity and presumed that you would have deciphered that your question was borderline stup1d. I presumed that you should know that we were not discussing issues in the ambit of the law of the unlawfulness of what has taken place but about ethics and tradition. Indeed you might not hold Tinubu responsible for this "honour" but if it croaks like a frog, hops like a frog then there is every chance that it is indeed a frog. When it comes to the law, I would like to think that I do know my onions and throughout my standing on this issue, I have not mentioned the "unlawfulness" of this development.

Now, tell me, just because you are allowed to smoke and in the event make others passive smokers by exposing them to nicotine passively, even though they do not consent to it; does it make your act unlawful? We know that, that is not the case as you have the freedom to exercise your rights to smoke even though it is dangerous to your health and others. Just because that one act is not unlawful does not make it right or stop others from treating you disdainfully when you smoke around them.

You are trying to be clever by injecting the law into this and you know that everything is not so black and white. There are certain issues which do not fall under the ambit of the law, and this is the reason why you might find them being regarded as morally or ethically wrong. There have been many instances where even judges have found it hard to acquit defendants because they find their acts morally wrong and would state so in passing their judgement but because the particular act or ommission does not breach any laws, they have been bound to dismiss a suit or trial.

Please try if you can not to abuse our senses here. I can see through your weak arguments for this sheer display of nepotism and I really do not give a flying fauq whether you are working to fill your belly but you what you are trying to do here is to indirectly call a host of discerning minds, fools while not realising that the joke is actually on you.

So we cannot find anything Tinubu has done wrong here?

As for the bold Thanks for the compliment. It was nice reading from you

I would think the so called Middle belt dominates the Armed forces more than any other region

And they have ruled more than any other group

We have had 3 rulers from the Middle belt who have spent a total of 18yrs

Military rule

North East - 0yrs
North West - Murtala + Buhari + Abacha = 8yrs
Middlebelt - Gowon + IBB + Abdulsalam = 18yrs
SouthWest - Obasanjo 2yrs
South east - ironsi 6months

Katsumoto: When your mother is the leader of the market women and you yourself are a proper area boy, giving the way elections are conducted in Nigeria, what chance does the opposition have? Now by making his daughter the leader of the market women, isn't he entrenching that power further?

PDP was kicked out two years ago, that utility will soon wear out with the people. Soon, they will rise against him, even if they will embrace the other evil. Tinubu may be thinking he is Awolowo; you guys better tell him, he is no Awolowo.

In any case, like Bola Ige said, na siddon look I dey.

Has Tinubu flouted any law of the Land? before any of his family became office holders, It was made open that ACN DOES NOT CONDUCT PARTY PRIMARIES. And people raised no dust over this.

When Bola Ige was alive I heard it was Funsho Williams that won the AD primaries and the leaders selected Tinubu to be the party flag bearer.

I also heard in that same 1999, Staunch Awoist selected Falae to the the flagbearer and no election was held.

But Tnubu is doing the same thing that has been going on for a while and he suddenly becomes the evil one

So you are saying the electorates dont determine elections in Nigeria?

Assuming what you say is true and Tinubu is the sole determinant, So what stops him from appointing another loyalist to the throne or what is this argument all about? Or are we saying Tinubu should be Magnanimous and select another person to run not his wife

I knew Tinubu had the Ticket for Lagos central Senatorial district in 2007 and he gave it to/ stepped down for Ganiyu Solomon.

Desola: I am sickened by the posts of dayokanu. Very sad day to realise that I have been fraternising with the enemies of the people. It is a sad day indeed and to come to a stark but shocking observation that the Yorubas are walking with eyes wide open into new age slavery. I am deeply saddened!

I have a feeling that ACN would indeed be worse than PDP.

Something has got to give. We need to start listening to Tunde Bakare more.

These people are devourers!

You have not made any points since, and I have been waiting for you to make one since.

What has Tinubu done wrong or what law has he infracted currently by his daughter accepting the title, or by his wife contesting an election and winning

Desola: Oh my gawd!!!![b][/b]

Is that not what Politics is all about?

ACN says I offer no Party primary

PDP says I offer Party primaries

Labour Party says I offer partial party primary

ANPP say we cast coin to know the candidate

Then the electorates would choose which one they want depending on whats important to them. Quality of candidates, the primaries, complexion of their skin, Spoken English, Number of children policies etc

Afam4eva: Musilou Obanikoro should just forget it. He had his chance when he contested against a relatively unknown Fashola yet Fashola beat him to it. it will be much more difficult because ACN has raised the bar a little bit in Lagos. The contest is between the aspirants in ACN. But the question remains, will there be a primary election in ACN? I hope things change this time aroung so that people can elect their choice at the primaries. I also hope that what i've been hearing about Remi Tinubu being Tinubu's choice is not true.

ACN has said they dont use primaries in their party they select candidates

if there had been an election within ACN then Fashola would have been number 100.

The selection obviously is working for them thus far so why change it

I suspect they wont choose a Popular candidate who would be too much of a politician rather they would choose an administrator

Tinubu would do the Politics the Governor would be the facing the administrative work strictly

I hope its Senator Olorunmibe Mamora

Katsumoto: Come on Dayo. Re-read what you wrote. You don't have a problem with a party that doesn't use a primary system to select candidates? You don't have a problem with one man controlling the destinies of so many? There is nothing democratic about what you described. What you described is akin to a dictatorship. Why would Tinubu want primaries when he gets to select candidates? Trust me, this is not the way to do things anywhere in the world, let alone a place where you call home and love very much. If there are no checks for Tinubu, then you will wake up one day and Tinubu is selecting your gateman, teachers for your kids, etc. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Tinubu doesnt have the power to put anyone in presidency and Senate Just like the Bush and Kennedy. The best they can do is nominate and support just Like Tinubu does

Everyone Tinubu selects still have to go through general elections as far as I know.

So if you have a party named XYZ and select your brothers, the onus is on the electorates to accept them or reject them

if electorates accepts all from one family then what have you done wrong?

ACN as a party does not do primaries I would think people have an option to choose parties who do primaries if thats what they want

OBAGADAFFI: Tinubu influence is too much.
Maybe tomorrow his son will become the NURTW chairman in Lagos.

Do you know how much Iyaloja makes everyday?
Just imagine all Lagos markets shut down for Iyaloja Tinubu.

What has he done wrong by having that much influence?

I havent heard anyone complain that Bush family influence is too much

If NURTW decides to make his son the chairman, then whats the big deal, Is he not qualified to be one based on the requirements?

If the tradition demands that Lagos market shut down for the Iyaloja then so be it. Or should we obey when its for Alaba Lawson but not Obey because its a Tinubu?

Katsumoto: It appears you missed my point, let me make it again. For all the elections the Kennedy's and Bush's won, they had to go through primaries. And I gave you examples of how the two most powerful Kennedy's lost primaries.

Now my question to you, what are the result of the ACN primaries that Remi Tinubu and other Tinubu's contested? I am not requesting the proper elections. The names of their opponents and the actual results.Ted Kennedy lost the primary in 1980 and never attempted again.

ACN doesnt go through primaries and they made this very clear for everyone who cares to know. None of their Office holders went through a primary So why dont we have a problem with Fashola, Ajimobi etc being governors without ACN primaries but suddenly have a problem with Tinbus wife not going through a primary.

For all the politcal post Tinubu family holds they went through general elections.

Tinubu doesnt have powers to appoint a Senate, Best he can do is to select someone on the platform of his party and the person contest elections with candidates from other parties who went through their own parties selection process which they won

solomon111: you want me to believe that COWLSO was built with donations and not public funds.
Why should i?
Has the lagos state govt antecedent being corruptless?
What are the name of those that donated and what are they are getting in return.?

You dont believe then whose problem is that?

^^ Iniesta is not a striker

Torres is a striker who has been a flop for the past 3yrs

OBAGADAFFI: But you know Tinubu is very powerful, am yet to see any group in Lagos that will disrespect him.

Oba Akiolu has always shown interest in ACN affairs, infact he is given so much power in Lagos Island.

So in any of these can anyone point out the fault Tinubu has in this?

basilo101: u nid to travel

Travel to where? To your village?

mention the name of your village Im sure you would be tongue tied because you are everly ashamed of your home town

mbulela: I have long lost hope in the polity but this particular incident has made my hopeless state irreversible. The fact that intelligent men will even attempt to defend this atrocity is equally as baffling.
Like i said earlier, if you think a clueless daft and inept man like GEJ is doing harm to the commonwealth,better pray an intelligent,manipulative and eternally greedy man like Tinubu does not get any where near the helm of affairs in this country. Else,there will be nothing left soon after. PDP might be evil but it is beginning to look like we actually have no better option out there.

Can you tell exactly what wrong Tinubu has done?

His family members contested elections and won just like several other Nigerians, His family members accepted traditional titles just like several other Nigerians

Tinubu is not in any Political office for the past 6yrs

So tell what wrong has he done? By being a Nigerians or by doing what other Nigerians are doing within their constitutional rights?


Can you also tell me its wrong for the Bush family to have several of their sons and grandsons in Political office in the biggest democracy in the world?

Katsumoto: Its a pity am on my fone. John F. Kennedy lost the vice presidential slot to senator kefauver in 1956. Ted kennedy lost the democratic nomination to jimmy carter in 1980. What are the results of the primaries tinubu's wife and family members contested? Do you think the kennedy's just waltzed into every position they had?

There is a lot wrong in tinubu just appointing folks to positions wilky nilly like a tyrant. Who is tinubu? Support for tinubu should not just be based on defeating PDP. That is history; what matters now is what tinubu does with the power he has. So far he has been a tyrant and is relying on past glory.

A king will arise who will not know Joseph.

So the problem is not that Tinubu family contested but that they contested and won? Or whats the analogy with Keneddy's here?

Kennedy's family contested and lost, Tinubus family contested and won So winning elections make Tinubu bad?

Tinubu presented his family members and they won the elections How is it Tinubus fault that his family won elections?

Maybe the name Tinubu the aura and the support of Tinubu was enough to win them elections.

Kennedys came up and won election, some Lost, Tinubu did the same and whats the big deal about it.

Tinubu stopped being governor or having any political power in 2007 6yrs ago. He presented his family for elections and they won

Kindly tell what Tinubu has done wrong here

Or since anyone is related to Tinubu, they are barred from contesting elections or taking up traditional titles?

ketoprofen: laugh wan kill me die

1) and who the hell is asking everybody where they are from? starting with me, am from Enugu state. Am sure u dont want to compare Ibadan to Enugu, the capital or have u got that liver? nonsense.

Ibadan compared to Enugu? Enugu wan die?

Abi no be the same Enugu ni

In 500yrs Enugu cant catch up with Ibadan