₦airaland Forum

JAMO84:
I expect Peter Obi to do a twitter post on this. Like:

I woke up to the great news of Ugandans dozing off while eating jollof rice and assorted meat. Such a development can be replicated here, if only Mahamood Yakubu did not rig the 2023 election.
In Uganda, the number of meat and jollof rice eaten per square meter everyday is 10 times that of Niger and Zamfara state combined. A new Nigeria is possible - PO

Brilliant

You might wonder, why is the government introducing VAT - a new tax.

It is actually not a new tax. We have been paying VAT in one form or another since the military era.

Whether it is a phone handset, call credit or data, bottle of coke, soap, dstv subscription and several other products and services, VAT is already included in the prices. You just didn't know it.

The new VAT bill is mainly to change the way the money derived from VAT is shared between the States and Federal government.

To be fair @ Bandiaro, VAT is a bit complex, but I will try and explain it.

From your scenario, my understanding is that the wholesaler will pay VAT (currently 7.5%) to the meat processing factory in Kano, but the wholesaler will be able to claim the VAT back (get a refund) from the FIRS since it is not the final consumer. Because it can claim it back, the VAT has not crystalised at that point, so the government has effectively not made/generated the revenue at that point.

Once the wholesalers transports the meat to and sell to retailers in Lagos, the wholesaler will include VAT (7.5%) as part of the price to be paid by the retailer.

Once the retailer sells to the consumers, the retailer too can go to FIRS and claim a refund of the 7.5% VAT that was included in the price it paid to the wholesaler.

As you can see, both the wholesaler from Kano, and the retailer in Lagos, can claim back the VAT they paid, which means they have not really lost anything to VAT.

The retailer will also include 7.5% VAT in the price it sells to its Lagos customers/consumers.

However, unlike the wholesaler and the retailer, the consumer will not be able to claim back the VAT from FIRS.

So, effectively, it is the consumer that actually pays VAT.

That is why it is effectively a consumption tax.

Have you noticed that businesses have been quiet about the VAT tax bills That's because they are not the ones paying the tax. Whatever they pay as VAT to other businesses, they will be able to get a refund from FIRS.

To buttress my point about VAT being a consumption tax, here is an example:

If Nigerian brewery produces Guilder in Lagos State, and distributes some to Kwara State.

Lagos State can only claim VAT on Guilder bought/consumed in Lagos.

It cannot claim the VAT for Guilder distributed to or consumed in Kwara. The VAT on the Guiness sold within Kwara will go to Kwara State.

So, it is not about where a product is produced, it is all about where the final consumption happens.

So, you will only be entitled to VAT on the consumption that happens in your State, which is fair. Nobody is cheated.

But in order to ensure even more fairness, under Mr Tinubu's tax bills, each State will only be entitled to 60% (instead of 100%) of the VAT generated within each State.

So Mr Tinubu is effectively shortchanging States like Rivers, Oyo, Lagos etc while favouring poorer States.

Instead of northern leaders being totally against the bills, an outcome which will result in an even worse situation for their States, a more astute position would be to negotiate for the proportion of VAT to be redistributed to all States to be increased from the proposed 40% to may be 50%.

You don't seem to understand how VAT works.

VAT is a consumption tax. It is based on where a product is purchased/consumed, not who produced it or where it is produced..

Based on the Lagos cow trade scenario you outlined, all the VAT should to Lagos State, not the cattle rearers or the State where the cattle were raised.

However, under Mr Tinubu's tax bills, instead of Lagos getting all the VAT from your scenario, Lagos will only get 60% with the remaining 40% shared to other states and so other states will benefit from Lagos's own VAT.

So Lagos will actually lose 40% of what it should be entitled to.

If any state should be complaining against the bills, it is states like Lagos, Rivers, Oyo etc, not Northern States.

But if Northern senators succeed in blocking the bills, no problem. All it needs is for a State in the South to return to Court for affirmation that each State can pass their own VAT laws.

Remember, Mr Wike went to court and tge court ruled that Federal government cannot collect VAT on behalf of States. It was Northern Governors that begged Mr Wike not to continue with the matter then.

Like I said if Northern Governors block the bills, no problem.

Lagos, Rivers and any other State that is interested will put processes in place to start collecting their VAT locally.

In that scenario, Lagos, Rivers, Oyo etc will keep 100% of the VAT generated within their respective territories. These states will be rolling in unprecedented revenue, while most other states will lose out.

You prefer that? No problem. Go ahead and block the bills which are fairer and even better for your states, since at 40% of all VAT generated in States like Rivers and lagos will be redistributed to other states.

The level of misinformation by many of the Northern leaders on these bills is just unbelievable.

Ah ah ah. Military government in the ditch.

Some Nigerian yoots were even clamouring for military rule in Nigeria.

Till today, some still wake up every morning to check if a coup has been announced in Abuja

As if the military knows anything about functional macro economic policies, fiscal management, foreign currency management, human rights etc

Most military regimes don't even recognise courts. Run your mouth anyhow on socialmedia, end up in the gallows. No court, no bail, no begging, and certainly, no protests.

People just assume refinery is a license to print money.

In reality, a refinery is one of the least profitable businesses out there. It is a low margin business, so unless you can do it on a large scale of at least 200,000 barrels per day, you will struggle against the big boys.

With the rate at which every Nigerian wants to set up a refinery, who is going to buy all the petrol Too many refineries will eventually result in some closing down due to inability to make profit.

Is refinery the only business around?

Also, a 50,000 barrel per day refinery is not big enough to produce petrol. It will produce diesel, and some associated byproducts, but not petrol.

I don't believe I have ever seen Shawama.

I haven't eaten amala with gbegiri. I don't know what gbegiri looks like, even though it seems very popular.

I just don't come across these foods in my circle.

I haven't purchased Bole before though I have had little bits here and there from other peoples portions.

I have no serious passion for food, so I am not a variety person. I also don't like buying cooked foods on the street.

I like bro Eleyi.

Despite receiving a dressing down before a national watching audience of millions during Mr Tinubu's famous Emilokan speech, he has remained steadfastly loyal to the President.

He also seems to be doing a better job now in Ogun State.

According to Sanwo Olu: 'A very strategic meeting'.

Hmm...

Mr Bala Muhammad. Are you listening.

Mr Tinubu's Lagos boys are streetwise and will not let you mess with their boss o.

Excellent. Well done.

The rest should continue to fold their arms or waste their time being abusive on social media demanding that 'Tinubu should bring down the cost of food'.

Tell them to farm, they can't, won't, or refuse, but they expect a President to do abracadabra in Aso Rock and use incantations to make foods fall from the sky.

You are a diligent and commendable citizen.

By this single action, you have contributed your small quarter to bringing down the price of beans in the coming months.

The deluded and entitled yoots should continue to refuse to farm and keep on whingeing. It's up to them.

Abaki5:
You are educating them and the same time threatening them on how they cannot survive even if they accept to try it.
What should I call you now?

I don't see any threat in my comment.

It was the Bauchi Governor that threatened the President.

WesleyPepper:
Tinubu messed the whole thing up .

If I were in his shoes , I’d empower the states already in court to see the case to logical conclusion .
VAT is not in the exclusive list .

The President didn't mess up anything. The current arrangement of allowing the Federal government collect VAT on behalf of the states is better.

Under the military (Babangida or Abacha), each State was allowed to collect sales tax (VAT). However, no State was able to collect much of the tax, probably because the technology and knowledge was not available then.

After 1999, the new civilian government reverted to central collection by the federal government.

As you rightly said, VAT is not on the exclusive list, which means each State can enact its own VAT/Sales tax law. River State under Mr Wike took the matter to court and won. I recall Northern Governors were pleading with Wike not to continue with the case 'cause they knew it would be to the disadvantage of poor states.

Yet, some of them are now trying to frustrate a reform of the current outdated arrangement.

No problem, it just needs one Southern state to return to Court, and if as expected, the Court rule that each State can collect its own sales tax, then the poorer States will be in much deeper trouble.

If each state collects its own VAT, states like Lagos, Oyo, Kano, Rivers etc will be rolling in unprecedented revenue, while several poor states will go into abject poverty.

If that's what the Northern Governors want, that's fine.

The tax bills are even still considerate, setting aside more money for distribution to poorer States. So, I don't understand the extreme stance of some of the Governors.

The bills will pass anyway. Nothing to worry about.

The Bauchi State Governor has said Mr Tinubu is calling for anarchy unless he stops Tax reform.

Mr Bala claims with the tax reform, the North will not be able to pay salaries.

He claims the policy favours only one section of the country.

So this Governor believes it is his way, or no way.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TZQvwuXFPt4&si=iK5vd2CC2NCB9vJ7

I agree.

arkad139:
its not. We,won't let that happen we own Nigeria

You're funny.

Mr Tinubu is not Mr Jonathan.

Emirs came out, Governors, and other vested interested protested and insisted he withdrew the bills.

Mr Tinubu threw their request in the bin, and asked them to go and explain themselves to the National Assembly. They have since gone back home to complain in their living rooms, but not publicly again.

They thought they were important. But Mr Tinubu showed them who is in charge.

Nigeria can vote in another President in 2027. That's not Mr Tinubu's problem.

Even if he's doing only one term, that's OK. In the 4 years, he will carry out as much reforms as he can. The next President can reverse or deal with the rest. No problem.

arkad139:
Its manipulations. We no gree. Tax reform bill must be scrapped completely

It seems you missed Mr Tinubu's media chat where he said tax reform has come to stay. There may be a few insignificant changes here and there, but the bills will be passed into law.

Mr Tinubu is a strong-willed President. If he says something within his powers will happen, you better believe it.

This is a reformist President with a vision. No Governor, Emir, Oba, or vested interests can stand in his way.

You people will have to wait until 2027. And, from what I can see, he doesn't appear to care about your 2027 threats.

Great.

But Lagos needs more trees and greenery.

Let's start with a million more trees.

Trees civilises an environment.

You made a good point. Excellent.

I suggest you write to your House of Rep member and Senator with the suggestion that the availability of state prisons should be made a prerequisite for a state establishing state police.

That will be your civic contribution to the debate.

Don't include the bit about poor or rich states.

Another example of decentralisation (indirect restructuring) by this government. Including local government autonomy.

Exactly what Southerners have been asking for over the years.

Yet, some Southerners are clamouring for Mr Atiku in 2027 against a bold Southern president that is doing his best to reduce the concentration of power at the centre.

Only a few days ago, the federal government launched the start of construction of a new airport in Abia.

Yet, some people are hell bent on voting another Northern President so soon after Mr Buhari.

Na wa o.

Alakoriomo:
Why’s groceries cheap like this in the UK tho? It’s not like that in the US. As a single person, $300 isn’t enough for groceries in a month

UK is literally the centre of the world (East, West, and South) and the entire world is represented in London.

Foods from the Carribean, Africa, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc are aplenty in many parts of the UK, so with no shortage of supply, prices are reasonable.

Too many middlemen in many sectors of the Nigerian economy.

It artificially inflates the prices of goods and services.

In real estate, and not just in Lagos, the situation is at crisis point.

You give them property to sell, they want to add their own to the price, and that's in addition to their commission

You want to buy property, they collect commission from you, and also from the seller.

The greed is extraordinary.

That interview was great.

I loved it when the President said no going back on tax reforms.

That sends a strong signal to those holding out any hope of killing those tax bills.

It ain't happening.

No Nigerian President since Mr Obasanjo has been able to express himself as impressively or articulate himself so eloquently about the economy, security, tax reform and across a range of topics as the President did today.

He was clear about his vision for the country, and came across as a confident, committed, and purposeful leader.

For his age, he was sharp in his thoughts and expressions.

I am very impressed.

I believe in the man.

The national assembly is the rightful place for consultation.

As for the Oyo State Governor, the northern Governors pushed you forward to run their errand, you didn't think asking a President to withdraw a bill is public humiliation.

Would a northern Governor have accepted to read such press statement under Mr Buhari if the South was against a bill.

You too reason am na.

Anyway, none of you is politically wiser than the President. He threw the NEC's request in the bin.

Now you are embarrassed and NEC has been humiliated as a meaningless gathering.

MT:
Stop arguing.

There is no exception for the Supreme Court to make law. That is like asking Supreme Court to usurp the position of the house of assemblies.

And if you still want to argue, show us just one reference which supports SC making laws.

This is a basic social study.

Social study is different from Advanced legal theory in jurisprudence and constitutional law.

A Supreme Court decision is effectively a law. It is even more powerful than the actual law made by the national assembly.

So long as the final interpretation of any law lies with the Supreme Court, the judicial decisions of the Supreme Court are the most powerful pronouncements in the land.

Theory - the Constitution is Supreme.

Practice - a judgement of the Supreme Court is superior to a provision of the Constitution.

A Supreme Court decision is final.

As long as any Constitution is subject to the final interpretation of the Supreme Court, the latter has the final say.

That's the reality.

2023 APC presidential primaries:

Mr KALU - if the South East can't have it, I would prefer the Presidency to go to the North'.

Mr Kalu supported the former Senate President against his long term friend Mr Tinubu, whilst hiding under
'if the South East can't have it...'

You are prepared to have another Northern president succeed Mr Buhari, just so your 'friend' doesn't become President. Now, you're doing eye service.

But I think the worst one was Mr Ngige, the minister of labour under Mr Buhari. In the lead up to the APC primaries, he granted an interview where he narrated how the Tinubus took in her daughter and looked after her when Mr Ngige had to leave to become Governor of Anambra because Mr Ngige didn't want her to leave her school in Lagos.

He then dismissively and arrogantly said they were contemporaries, and did not support the man's candidacy for Presidency.

Someone that accommodated and looked after your daughter. And also helped you to become ACN Senator, which in turn got you into Buhari's government as Minister of Labour for 8 years.

Yet, when he needed you, you disparage his candidacy. Even if Mr Ngige was not going to support the man, he could have kept quiet.

Omo araye le o.

Mr Tinubu must be very hurt by the behaviour of these two people who he had consistently helped.

The best thing is - as much as possible, avoid being in a large crowd in a confined area.

Stadium, concert halls, large nightclubs etc

The Oba's name is Gbadegesin, not Gbedegesin.

Translation - the one who rides a horse with a crown.

She's even raising her left fist.

So threatening someone's life via twitter makes you a freedom fighter

You will learn a hard lesson.

This headline will infuriate many Nigerians

But NNPCL belongs to Nigerians na. So, the more profit the company makes, the more money will be available for road construction, education, hospitals etc

So, this is good news