₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
1. There was never any need for jesus. God has provided everything the Jews needed in the Torah.. The Jews don't have the idea of gods impregnating women. It only exists in Greek/ Roman mythology. I think jesus and Perseus of clash of the titans fall into the same category.
2. As for Muhammad, there was no record of him until 200+ years after the so called higra. There were no prophets in arabia prior to Muhammad who prophesied his coming. Every thing in the Qur'an are all stories lifted from the bible.

what is this Torah that you normally mentioned. There is need for Jesus

sonmvayina:
I personally don't think there was ever a Muhammad or a Jesus. I know I am 99% right.
They where both written into existence by people who wanted cover stories for their new religions.

you know that you are 99% right. Are do you know this

MaxInDHouse:
Christianity was silenced after the death of Jesus' Apostles but in our time was revived as Jehovah's Witnesses Organization!

what do you mean by in your time

sonmvayina:
Why not,if I get to live forever....
He only sacrificed his weekend. (That if he existed) .
You would do it.

But truth be told, nobody asked him to. He was arrested and tried and executed...that is not how to perform a sacrifice. It is slit in the throat, the blood allowed to flow and then burnt. Why did he not go and meet the priest to perform it properly. God never gave the Romans the power to carry out sacrifice on his behalf. The story has too many holes, like a Swiss cheese to be true.

Thanks.

i ask him to die for me. I will continue to thank God for giving me his son to die for me. That is the greatest thing ever done for mankind. You may not understand it but there are millions of people that has realized the importance of his death and they are grateful for him dying for our sins. I will forever be grateful. If I was there I would ask him to die for my sin.

sonmvayina:
Fear..

Cowards die many times before their death..J ceaser.

And some people say he is god. What insult.

Fear because what he would pass through and no human being willing go through what he would go through that will not fear.

Coward........ Can YOU do what Jesus did?? Can you die for people and not just people, people you don't know. That are not your friend.

He is a God but in this case he is a human being like you.

How can a human being kill is fellow human being. This is sad

StillDtruth:
You are shifting the post, dodging the question asked and trying reverse it and put it on me

Whereas I have asked you
"You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?"

If you cannot address this issue, we understand!

when you are saved doesn't automatically mean that you have eternal life.
You are saved by believing that the Lord Jesus the son of God that came to this world to die for our sins, but for you to have eternal life there is a process you go through AFTER YOU ARE SAVED. Note words after you are saved because you like asking and twisting words

StillDtruth:
See how you are confusing yourself.

You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?

you are lousy but I would because for others sake reply this.

So in your years of being a Christian you believe that you automatically receive the gift of eternal life after you are saved. So you think that is how it works. My brother if you don't know something try and ask.
Eternal life doesn't automatically come as after you give your life to Christ. There are things you must know and do. Even the disciples didn't immediately receive eternal life. It was after Jesus rose from the death and ascended to heaven and decended to that they received eternal life.

immaculatesense:
Great sir. I understand your point.
My view on that is that we all do mess up sometimes. Sometimes we show a lack of faith when we pass through situations that seems overwhelming to us. It is not an excuse for us or for Thomas. My point is that we are just humans and sometimes we have doubts even now. But thank God who is always patient with us and knows that we are just humans and he treats us with so much love that even when we are in that state of doubt and faithlessness, he shows up in his compassion and built our faith up just like he did to Thomas. Praise God.

Thanks.

Good morning, God will help us. Have a good day

StillDtruth:
See how you are confusing yourself.

You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?

Cc Sirmwell

I really don't want to engage you

gohf:
Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

sorry but salvation is not eternal life. Salvation is eternal or everlasting but not eternal life

immaculatesense:
Since we both agreed that Jesus only ascended once and descended once. There is no longer issues. That was the major discussion and we have both agreed on that.

If you say we are better than Thomas, I do not think that was what Jesus meant. Jesus only said "You saw me and you believe, blessed are those who did not see me but believe". He did not say "more blessed than you (Thomas)".
And whereas Thomas name will be numbered among the foundation of the New Jerusalem not us and also he will sit on one of the twelve thrones with other apostles like Jesus promised, not us.
All the twelve are all fortunate to be pioneers of the gospel of Christ. They were not perfect humans (not even Peter who denied Jesus three times). But they will all be rewarded by Christ at his coming.
Research even shows the Thomas was the first among the Apostles to minister in Africa and the he even died in Africa. (I am not holding it as fact since it is not explicitly in the scriptures about his missionary journey) But I believe none of the apostles were useless even those records may not be kept or seen of them.

Thanks

I didn't say Jesus said we are more blessed than him. What I said trying to say was that muss it when he doubted the Lord Jesus and he became irrelevant afterwards. He wasn't even there when Jesus appeared to the disciples. So I wanted not to focus too much on him. You were bringing him up frequently. So I trying to tell you that the lack of faith of Thomas took him out of the picture. What is faith. Faith is believing without seeing. But Thomas wanted to see before he believed. Thomas messed up.

Sirmwill:
Take a very critical example of the people that Jesus healed


They really got healed by their belief. Not that they worked for it.

Then who gives the power to "go and sin no more?" It's still Jesus

And he spoke this to some specific people who just believed in him... Yes or No?
Do you think,they would ever have the ability or any slightest urge to sin anymore after those words Jesus spoke to them? Capital NO

Even The power to not sin anymore is embedded in believing.
God himself said he would remove the heart of stone and replace it with the heart of flesh.

Can we actually be saved by we stopping sin consciously by ourselves.Who has the power over sin?Is it not Jesus?

We really don't need to stress further bruv 🙃🙂

i don't stress myself anymore. If they can't believe something as simple as this, I wonder if they are truly saved

Sirmwill:
Whatever you believe bruv 🤗😇

abi oga e tire you. I don't know why something as simple as this and some people are allowing the devil use destroy there lives

immaculatesense:
Sir.
1. Same Jesus said if he did not go to the Father, the holy spirit will not come. Doesn't that mean that Jesus ascended to heaven and then the Holy spirit came? John 16:7

2. Are you saying we didn't hear of Thomas again because he didn't receive the holy spirit or because he doubted Jesus? I don't think that is what you meant sir.
Can you tell me out of the eleven why we didn't hear of Matthias, Bathelomew, Thaddeus, Simon the Zealot and even Andrew the brother of Peter and one of the four closest disciples of Jesus when he was with them. Why didn't we hear of these people again throughout scriptures after Jesus ascension. Is it that they did something wrong just like Thomas?

Thanks

you are saying what am I am saying. The Lord Jesus went to the Father in heaven after he resurrected from death and he decended from heaven with eternal life. And eternal life comes the Holy Spirit. This is what have been saying.


I can't much about other disciples but Thomas was his own problem because he doubted the Lord Jesus. The fact that he doubted the core foundation of our salvation took him out of the picture. Even if he received the Holy Spirit, he will still not be relevant. You are more important than Thomas. Between you that didn't see the Lord Jesus live and believe him and Thomas that eat with Jesus sleep with him and even hear him teach not reading about him, who do you think God will appreciate more. So don't let focused on Thomas.

If you have more questions to ask about what will are discussing, you can ask.

immaculatesense:
Sir.
That's not how the story went.
Okay, let's look at it like this.
1. When Jesus breathed on his disciples and said "receive the holy spirit". It was a prophetic statement because Thomas was excluded. Can we say Thomas did not receive the Holy spirit?

2. Why did I say Jesus statement was prophetic?

let look at John 6:51, " I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which i will give for the life of the world". Jesus said he is the living bread which came down from heaven. You yourself said he ascended to heaven to bring the Holy Spirit. It was part of what you wrote. If he will give the Holy Spirit to the disciples, he must have ascended to heaven and decended back to earth. You said Jesus went to the Father after he resurrected to bring the Holy Spirit, so if he went to the Father in heaven, he will also decend back to earth from heaven.


Thomas not being among the disciples when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples, after the Lord Jesus left this world did we really hear of him again. Even the fact that he doubted the Lord Jesus that has render him someone of no importance.

Truthseeker10:
So What did Jesus do in heaven when he initially went to heaven before he came back according to you?

didn't you read through. That is why I don't chatting with you because of this unnecessary questions

Truthseeker10:
So where is Jesus now?

though I don't like chatting with you because you keep asking questions but I will reply this. After he showed himself to the disciples and many others for many days he ascended again back to heaven and he his at the right hand of the the throne of God

GRACEGLORY:
On sale

pls do well to continue post testimony. I relocated to a new place last year and I have not been able to get a fellowship where they arrange bus to come to canaanland. Though I stop attending canaanland sometimes now but I really want to start coming again

Righteousness2:
Good one from his Excellency, the Governor of rivers state.
But what really struck me is the Message on the Banner hung up at back of where the governor was seated.

That message is one which any genuine believer who does not want to struggle in life, should take serious.

THE HEART BEAT OF GOD ALMIGHTY is Evangelism.

This is the secret of life as a true Christian.

senior man. You are someone I respect here

immaculatesense:
I like your view sir.
Let us look at it this way.
1. Mary: Mary was happy to see Jesus after he died. Our of her immense joy, she was about to 'embrace' Jesus. Jesus reply to Mary was that of "Mary, do not be overjoyed to embrace me because all have not been done until I ascend to my Father and release the Holy spirit. But go and share what you have seen which brings you joy to my other brothers (the disciples) and tell them that what you have seen, they will see when I appear to them in Galilee."

2. Thomas: Thomas was in doubt that the person whom the apostles said they saw was really Jesus and he doubted to a level where he said to other disciples (not Jesus) that "have you confirmed it is Jesus by touching him? How do you know when you did not even touch his injured hand and feet? Let him appear again and let me touch him and then I will believe, if not, I won't."
Jesus appeared to Thomas and told him to do that which he wanted to, but fortunately Thomas himself believed at the word of the Lord.

Conclusion, it is clear from the storyline that Both Mary and Thomas (probably even all the apostles) NEVER touched Jesus.


Thank you sir for your wise engagement.

between when Mary wanted yo touch Jesus and when he told Thomas to touch his hand anf side something happened. I like the fact that you said, Jesus told Mary not to embrace him because he has not yet ascended to the Father and release the Holy Ghost. So Jesus ascended to the Father in heaven to bring down the Holy Ghost before he appeared to the disciples because the first he did when he appeared to the disciples was that he breathed on them and said receive the Holy Ghost(John 20:20-23). So because the Lord Jesus ascended to the Father in heaven to bring down the Holy Ghost, he also decended and released the Holy Ghost to the disciples and to those that believe. My brother this is a whole new journey. It is the ascension of the Lord Jesus to the Father in heaven after his resurrection and his descending back to this world that give us eternal life. There are lots of things concerning this.

immaculatesense:
Thanks sir.
The second part is the correct answer.
After Jesus appeared to Mary, he also appeared to two disciples on their way to Emmaus. After that he appeared to Peter and then James. Then he appeared to the ten (except Thomas) and then to the eleven (including Thomas) and then to them at the river bank where he told Peter to take care of other brethren. Then to the 120 at his ascension.
In all these, Jesus kept appearing to his disciples within those days.
Did he eat and sleep with them during this period or was just appearing? It is not clear. What we know from the scriptures is that, he broke bread with the disciples at Emmaus and also cooked some fish for his disciples at the river bank.
That is the part that the scriptures revealed to us and it is evident that Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after his ascension.

Thanks

don't you think it is contradicting that the Lord Jesus will tell Mary not to touch him but he telling Thomas to put his hand in the print of nail and he should touch his side. Don't you think between when the Lord Jesus told Mary not to touch hima and when he showed himself to Thomas and the other disciples something has happened

immaculatesense:
Okay sir.
Your question is straight forward and I will answer it straight.
Did Jesus ascend to heaven and then decend later to earth?
The answer is NO.
Why no?
Jesus was telling Mary. "You can't touch me now because I HAVE NOT ascended into my Father".
So, it is obvious that Jesus did not ascend unto his father before then.
Now, the other part of your question was DID JESUS THEN ASCEND TO HEAVEN AND THEN DECEND TO SEE THE APOSTLES?
The answer is still NO.
Why no?
Jesus appeared to his disciples severally as a proof of his resurrection and then after some days (some say forty days), he ascended into heaven in the presence of all his disciples and will decend again at his second coming.

Thanks.

When the Lord Jesus appeared to his disciples, was it after ascended or the Father. Because he told Mary, I have not ascended to my Father and you Father and your God and my God. So after the Lord Jesus told Mary this, did he ascend to the Father in heaven or he went and show himself to the disciples

MaxInDHouse:
This is exactly what billions out there are saying so that each of you claims that God is teaching you directly leading you people into contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines.
You say they aren't teaching the true gospel and they are saying the same thing.
So that's why i don't care whatever you say as long as you can't present a group unitedly upholding the same line of thought just as Jesus said {John 17:22} and as his apostles said {1Corinthans 1:10} to me you are all blindfolded by the same person {2 Corinthians 4:4} the spirit of God doesn't promote confusion rather it brings peace among true believers! 1Corinthans 14:33
Today only my own church speak with one voice and are doing the will of one God globally! John 17:17

you see this has been your problem, you think this a war. You think this is jw against world. I don't fight in such battle. I am for Christ and what he stand for. Anything or anyone against can't roll with me

MaxInDHouse:
Let me see if there is anyone who agrees with you on the same teaching nah!

am not looking for anyone to agree with me. You think I care what other people think. I know what the Father has taught me so I don't care about others

MaxInDHouse:
You and i can never ever be on the same page.
I know this is CERTAIN!

that is because what you believe is contrary to the gospel of Christ

MaxInDHouse:
Just as some also say you are twisting the word of God so continue with them because i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses no matter what you say if you can't present any group practicing it you are one of those billions contradicting themselves out there!

ok. At least we are on the page today

MaxInDHouse:
Continue with your brethren after all it's them you want not me!

haaaaaa. I don't want anybody. I only speak against those that try to twist the gospel of Christ and bring it to no infect

I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

MaxInDHouse:
OK let me leave you with your brethren i'm sure you will appreciate their responses.
Thanks for your time!

I like the fact that didn't have the answer and you are leaving out. Thanks for your efforts. What if I tell you that the Lord Jesus decended after he ascended to heaven. What will your response be

gohf:
so you are telling me that they believe your version of the truth, which is salvation is free and yet they still continue to live in their sin, so you answer why is that?

Or are you saying they don't believe they are saved for free, I mean why wouldn't they believe such and how do you know they don't believe?

i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins. And you now from then live that have dominion over sin. You live above and you live by Christ. This is what I am telling you

MaxInDHouse:
Excellently!
Jesus didn't go anywhere until the day he bids farewell to the earth by ascending to the heavens before then he kept preparing his faithful friends for the task ahead.

And I ask when Jesus ascended to heaven did he decend to earth again. It is a very simple question. Yes or no. Did he decended to earth again after he ascended. No long grammer