EnlightenedSoul:

Sorry, that isn't what I meant.

That's perfectly natural. I had that preference too, but life doesn't always go as planned. All that aside, when you're interested in someone from another tribe/culture, that interest would naturally extend to their culture and language. It's part of who they are as person, and crucial to becoming comfortably acquainted with their side of the family. It's highly important for the kids to be familiar with their father's culture as well, and not just the mothers'.

I agree

Fulaman198:

If she is constantly asking me how does one say something in Fulfulde, that reveals to me that she has interest in the language and culture. Or if from time to time she would ask me stuff about Fulani culture. Another measure of this is if I find a woman who is into history and culture and she is not always talking about Europe or Asia or other Westernised countries/cultures.

This is fair enough.

TheBigUrban2:


Good.


I wish Tbaba and co can come here and give practical advice......rather than throw out philosophies.

Example-
Muslima; Help!!! My husband wants to take a second wife. It is not that I cant share my husband.....the problem is that the woman and I disliked each other in school. I see problems coming our way.

Male muslim Nairalander; The Quran permits a man to marry up to four wives. Islam is perfect. Islam gives the way to handle such problems.


How does the male muslim nairalander solve the problem in any way?

I reason with you. We will all get better at these things in sha Allah. Many of us are quite young. Hope u aint thinkn tbaba is one old man

EnlightenedSoul:

If someone is genuinely interested in you, how could they not be interested in your culture and language

I think it's a bit silly to imply that Fula shouldn't expect as much.

U didnt av to call anyone silly. I only wanted to understand to what extent his expectations are. I, myself prefer to marry someone from my tribe. No time for ambiguosities.

ameenahz:

Very funny. But it really doesn't matter. No one knows the relationship you have with your Lord.

I just hope/pray that most if not all your questions were answered to a reasonable extent.

It doesnt. Was just, u know keeping to the light mood

I am not actually satisfied by the responses. They all said things I already know and usermane expressed some of my thoughts. I dont want 2 say too much anymore though.

Yesterday, I was thinking, what if I die now and someone mistakenly mentions it on NL then people here, might think, 'eeyah, what a bad state to die'...lol.


I didnt't cahnge religion o. I am a Muslim!




Will lock the thread.

Thanks..na go de. E se.

Fulaman198:

I don't mind if a Yoruba woman teaches my possible future children Yoruba language, I just would like her to at least have an interest in Fulfulde language and Pulaagu (albeit even if the interest is very slight).

We say that Islam is a culture/way of life, it can be, but
not as universal as you may think it is. It is not practised the same way everywhere in the world.

In addition, many Arabs for example only marry Arabs. I think they are even more strict than I am.

How do you measure that interest in fulfude. I don't think many grown ups can learn new languages.

Fulaman198:

Generalisations everywhere

I don't think he was generalising. He only presented a scenario.

TheBigUrban2: I can understand the need for this thread.

Some muslim sisters see a non-muslim guy who is righteous in every sense. The non-muslim guy works hard, is nice to everyone, does charity to the community and children like him.....BUT HE IS NOT A MUSLIM.

This same non-muslim guy doesnt judge the muslima like how her male muslim acquaintances do. He doesnt expect her to wear hijab or dress in a certain way. He cooks for her sometimes.


Now, she has fallen in love with this non-muslim guy. She tries to convert him, he laughs in her face. He tells her that she can follow whatever religion she likes but he is not into religion.



The dilemma comes when her parents introduce her to an older muslim man (Alhaji) who is a bit wealthy but not as handsome or polite as the non-muslim. This Alhaji wants to marry her.






Is there compulsion in religion? Can she be a muslim and marry her non-muslim sweetheart?

Or is an older Alhaji with 3 wives already a better choice?

Should she wait for a younger muslim that might never come or understand her like her non-muslim sweetheart?





#the muslima dilemma

Interesting analysis. This happens, a lot.

Many of the Muslim men that I have come across are not my type, for example. And I have known quite a number of non-Muslim men that I like. #justsaying.

andromida:

I was imagining this will be a good match. Oh well.

I immediately checked if i will see tbaba's and deols pp but no show.

I didnt see tbaba1234's response before. I am so embarrassed.

Smartsyn: If he had met them a day after the incident, people must talk.


He is finally meeting with them, they are still talking..


No matter what you do, people must talk..

Gosh! Ye dumbeth!

Bnty is d best..lol

Is enlightenedsoul a Muslim?

onegig: The Prophet(SAW) did go to the open fields to empty their bowels back then. No toilet facilities existed that was their toilets.


Wouldn't it be nice i also follow the Prophet's ways and go to Oshodi under bridge to do "it" because the Prophet did same during their time. There's no geographical difference in this also.

The Prophet rode an Horse to Mecca for Hajj during his time. Why aren't Muslims climbing Horses to Hajj cause that's exactly what the Prophet did?


They wrote with sticks on scrolls back then, you should also ditch writing verses or reading them from you tablet because he never used that.


Deols.. When they said Islam was for yesterday, today and tomorrow. It meant the basic religious laws plus common sense. Also there's no emphasis on the medium or the asthetics. The act here is the main issue not the medium as long as the medium used is "halal".

Can you see the comparative differences? You can't stick to the past and their ways. Girls aged 9 as at then must have attained puberty, matured and be able to give birth without complications. We can't say same for girls of nowadays. Anyone who indulges in such at this age is a pedophile and should be behind bars. No two ways. I can't say what would happen in the next 1000 years. Maybe the body anatomy of humans might have changed to warrant such but at present there's simply no justification and anyone who indulges in such is not following the path of the Prophet but his own perverted desires.

Youvare missing the point I was making. We all know that the sunnah we talk about arent in advancements but the socio-religious and political life.

But If I will use ur analogy, then we may as well throw out every aspect of his sunnah and do what the 'world' is into now.

4. Women are deficient in Intelligence. I could have agreed with this if I I had not met very dumb men.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) on 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone MORE DEFICIENT IN INTELLIGENCE and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301)

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

4:20-21

@sissie. This is d verse for no.3

I cant give replies to all the posts but i have to say these.

*I don't think that the mesaage of Islam was meant to be vague, and not understandable. It is wrong to want to push things under the carpet uaing fear as a mechamism or by trying to claim that we dont have the capacity for understanding them. I think there is a reason the Quran explains jannah to us- so we would work for it. You cant tell me that its explanation is not good enough anymore and that the human nature isnt good enough to give an understanding.


I also noticed that many of the replies did not look at my concerns. Giving vague and indirect answers are not helpful in any way.

tbaba1234 said something about men who dont have enough resources but go into polygyny. The thing is, there is no law that says they MUST have enough resources. They dont even need to LOVE their wives/love them equally for that matter. One could be favoured and the others were expected to just accept.

There is a hadith I know of where a man was said to av gone to the prophet, complaining that he was impoverished. The prophet told him to get married. He went back after a while and the prophet told him to get married again. This is the hadith poverty-stricken people quote for engaging in polygyny.

Still, the fact that some other people got married to children does not make it right. I believe that, someone providing us with the best of examples would give us something that is the best. I dont know if this point is misunderstood or if people are deliberately ignoring it. And if the prophet's message or example was only for the sunny regions, then u are against the belief that Islam is not a religion of arabs.

Please I did not plan to argue these points, I was in fact hoping that you would tell me things that would make me feel better about my faith. Please, you should not give me responses that insult my intelligence and thereby make my situation worse. Thanks.

vedaxcool: Deols is it fair for a woman to carry a child for 9 months while the man sits around?

Very funny question.

onegig: How did you come about a man who's strictly monogamous? No one knows tomorrow. What happens if he decides to marry a second wife later even after signing the pre nup? Won't it eventually lead to divorce?

People have free will to do whatever they like. You can't sign an agreement and expect a man to remain with you forever as long as divorce is halal to him. Which brings us back to square one. She ends up being divorced.


Divorce is not something that is that easy even in the most ideal situations. It leaves most times an irredeemable scar on both partners. You have the extra baggages that comes with it.

When i said ruined, i didn't mean they can't function again or lead happy lives but seriously it's more like starting your live afresh but this time with big constraints from the past especially when kids are involved. Also how are we sure she would get married to another man?

From experience, most women (around 80 per cent) who are divorced end up being bitter about men and never remarry which is something Islam frowns at. So how do we sort out this issue?


It is simple. It's the male that need some straightening to do. It all boils down to where the rule came from. A careful and critical look at what that verse on polygamy says would show clearly that the general interpretation by most people is very very wrong. There's also a HUGE CLAUSE on it which says "if you can be just". No sane man would go into polygamy because of his lustful desires if he has the deeper understanding of what that clause means.

But go and listen to many alfas. They would tell you, if you marry an orobo and you feel like you want a lepa later you can always just decide to do it which is clearly in antagonism with what the verse means. I personally see no justification for a man to say he wants to marry another wife based on "taste".

Edited.

Interestingly, there is no punishment slated for the man who goes against this contract.

ameenahz:

From Marriage to inheritance, nothing seems to favour women. I once asked my teacher about houris. After ages of merry-go-round-ing, he concluded by saying i should be satisfied to be the queen of whatever number of women my husband chooses in Jannah. I was like seriously? Let's just leave that side.

I may sound like a defeated woman, but really, what do we do anyway? Let's just pray for a settled spirit, a pure heart and a happy home and the ultimate reward (whether we get 'houris' or not, at least we get the peace and pleasure we deserve after the struggles of this dunya). Whenever all these thoughts creep up, i do some nawafil and i say this prayer:

Ya muqolibal qulub, thabit qalbi alaa deenik (oh Changer of hearts, steady my heart in your religion).

Rabbana aatina fi duniya hasana, wa fil akhirati hasana wa kina adhaaba naar(My lord, grant me the good things of this world and the good things of the hereafter and save me from the punishment of hell)

It really doesnt help for one's thought to be going this way. Please put your hope and trust in Allah. He is The Just.

I will rember this prayer, in sha Allah.

I was going to bring up the issue of inheritance. Some parts of it bother me.

onegig: Ok i understand but i came to that conclusion seeing you recurring comments and the use of some certain personalities as your focal point. The major practical reality may be different from what the manual maybe preaching. That's why we need to go back to the basis and look at what the Holy book says. Yerima and his co travelers are not representative of what islam says. Infact in an ideal islamic environment he should be behind bars by now for defiling a minor. There's no justification for what they say. A 14 year old oyinbo girl would have grown and you would think she's an adult already that does not mean i can go to my village and pick a 14 year old and say she's an adult also. Body anatomy, food composition, environment, race and many things influence how mature a woman is.

There can never be any justification for their behaviors.

But there is nothing in Islam that points to a geographical variation.

What I am saying is, someone who wants to follow the prophet as the best of examples will do everything that he did, irrespective of the consequences.

^^ please do.

onegig: The same thing she's complaining about. It's more easier for the men. Like the laws give them the leeway to misbehave. Why would it be a woman's choice to divorce? Why not compel the man to stick to one wife alone. Why give him options when she has none and has to endure such. She can choose to stay or leave i.e divorce.

Is divorce for the lady an equal and justifiable comparison with what the man gets?
He gets a new bride and continues life as if nothing happened while we all know how hard it is for a divorcee(the woman) to remarry and continue her life without hitch coupled with the social stigmatisation associated with such? Thus ruining her life if she leaves and still ruining her life and making her pass through hell if she chooses to stay.

Islam preaches a just system but do you think this is just?


This i think is the issue she has and truth is i share most of this. The concept of justice as regards both genders.

Highly intelligent

ameenahz: I understand deols. And i'll be honest, i feel the same way some times too. My only recompense is that the ultimate reward is in the hereafter, waiting for us all in shaa Allah. Whether our men 'behave' or not.

Wallahi I was very young when I learnt of the numerous virgins for men in jannah. But by then, I already detested polygyny and when the ustadh described how the women of the earth would be in a better state than the houris, I thought to myself that 'I didnt want a polygyny on earth, why would I want it in aljannah'.

A lady even said that maybe God would make us all men and we would then all get the houris. But no. The prophet didnt say that. It is explained that the Men would get the houris and we would have the same men we had on earth. Doesnt seem endearing.

Sissie:

if your husband is no "prophet" why stay, and you do not want it why stay?. we women have a choice.

Seriously dear? If u dont stay with a good Muslim man, who is simply practicing Islam the way the prophet did, who should you stay with.

Onegig, I am not using the action of a few. I am telling u of how the practical ways of these things don't favour the women involved.

Sissie, the prophet did not say that his marriage to minors was a thing pf his century. Any good Muslim is expected to follow the prophet's way of life including how he ate, took his bathe and his marital relationship. Dont tell me u are unaware of that. People like Yerima seem like the perfect ones, with beard, short trousers, up-to four wives and their own Aishas.

@ameenahz and aalymah, since u av similar thoughts, dont u think that there is some need for a way out for us?

Fulaman198:

Wow, sorry about that

It is okay. Thanks

bntY: @ deols i no sabi how to argue o but i understand where you're coming frm.i will summarise wt an adage: ori bibe ko ni ogun ori fifo- (we will not severe d head because it aches.)
This cases you bring up are exceptions not d rule.They are divine and d fact dt people hav abused them doesn't give us liberty to proscribe them.To me,Islam stands on a tripod.Quran,wa sunah wa common sense. Anybody abusing female gender under d guise of 'permissibility' has his Lord to answer to.

Look at people who married minors. They did it just as the prophet did but there are bad consequences. I am not actually only talking of people who did it wrong and is Y i keep giving examples with what happened with the prophet's wives.

Now imagine that your husband has two of you and the other one is his Aisha, the one whose laps he prefers


Salam onegig

Sissie:

the society has always been polygamous even before prophet Muhammad.
At bolded no they all wont, i would use christianity as an example because some believe in monogamy, not all the men stick to their wife, Adultery would happen at a worse rate, than we experience. yes some men have 4 wives and still have concubines but thats not the norm.
yes when practiced wrong it has negative impact but when practiced right it has positive impact, you dont throw the baby with the bath water.
even monogamy practiced wrongly has negative impact on this same society.

I am talking of the kind of Muslim men I know. They would have stayed with those one wives.

Even the good Christian men av been able to stick to a woman.

tbaba1234: Deols is just influenced by many negative stories and ofcourse her feminine side.

A person could hear many horror stories of marriage and decide, marriage is not for them. It is normal.

There are many happy polygamous homes and many sad monogamous homes.

I feel many muslims of this age practise, monogamy without taqwa. They know they can marry more than one but do not understand that it comes with a responsibility.

The average taqwa of the ummah is probably at an all time low.

Forget polygyny, many muslim men do not even treat their one wife right.

It is unfair to dismiss these as a feminine thing. I cried this afternoon.

I have struggled with these thoughts for a long time. I am scared for my faith. I have prayed for it to stay strong. I av asked my people at itikaf to pray for me.

I learnt Islam all my life. Most of the people I grew up with were Muslims but Islam didnt do much in shaping their lives for good. All I saw were women who could have made it good in their own right being subjected to bullshiit in the name of being submissive and being 'good Muslimahs'. Unfortunately, there is always a hadith to back it up. Some men even smile after saying their women-unfriendly nonsenses.


I have more to talk about o. You just be my guest please. I hope to find my bearing, again.

bntY: @ deols i no sabi how to argue o but i understand where you're coming frm.i will summarise wt an adage: ori bibe ko ni ogun ori fifo- (we will not severe d head because it aches.)
This cases you bring up are exceptions not d rule.They are divine and d fact dt people hav abused them doesn't give us liberty to proscribe them.To me,Islam stands on a tripod.Quran,wa sunah wa common sense. Anybody abusing female gender under d guise of 'permissibility' has his Lord to answer to.

But the rule brought about them nah. Just imagine that you are the disadvantaged one in any of the scenarios to fully understand. Many people are in these scenarios.

Sissie:

We cant use today's civilization to judge the past.
he married a 9yr old but was it odd then? no it was quite the norm in the societies then until 19th-20th century women did not marry "late".
marriage in Islam the woman requires a woman's consent and what consent can a minor give? except for exceptional cases i don't see a woman less than 13 agreeing and giving their consent to be married.

Read my first post. The Quran/ Islam and sunnah are for yesterday, today and tomorrow.

If we apply what u said about moving with time, then most aspects of Islam will not go well with this time. We might as wellbstop using the hijab and call it achaic while taking up the more 'modern' dress sense.

So I dont think we can excuse the marriage to minors as an 8th century thing. If the best examples are from the prophet, then the people marrying minors are doing what is expected of them- following the footsteps of the prophet.