₦airaland Forum

LikeAking:
How to do expect beginners to venture into the fields you mentioned?

I'm a beginner and I'm venturing into them. Why can't they?

Maj196:
Okay... All the best. I must commend you anyway. Few ladies are interested in programming

Hopefully the trend continues. The less female programmers there are, the better for me. Being a woman already gives me an edge because lots of companies have gender quotas, especially for backend devs. Yet clowns here are telling me I'll struggle to get a job with all the skill set I'm currently building and connections I already have.

Dey play.

Maj196:
Well, more power to your elbow. Most beginners make the mistake of learning so many things at once. However, the best route is to stick to a stack, gain employment or freelance build stuffs then learn other stuffs later.

Start applying by the side because the future is not certain. You might learn these and more and still not get a job, that would frustrate you. There are a lot of people more skilled and experienced than you and still jobless.

Good luck.

Those people don't know how to market their skills, they don't have any connection, and they certainly don't know how to sell themselves. I have all these in spades. I'm built differently.

All the skills I'm learning aren't much. I don't know why you are making it seem like I'm learning too much. Node and express is still JavaScript. Typescript is still JavaScript. C# was created by the same person that created Typescript and the synthax is very similar. React is still JavaScript. And all the CSS frameworks I know are still css. So basically it's just CSS, JavaScript and C# I'm learning.

Paystack:
By your definition in other for one to become a Junior Dev or a developer they must follow your roadmap?


All of a sudden you a Bona fide beginner and newbie is now the arbiter of what a Junior developer should be and what their skills set should be.


See the way you're making fun of HTML, CSS, JavaScript and REACT.


The very Tech that introduced you to this space


Ungrateful child... Build your nonsense and Garbage projects only you know of in peace and allow other learn at their pace and follow their own roadmap.


After learning all your jargons and Granpa languages your superior in wherever you'd work will be someone who've learnt and master a particular aspect of programming.


You'd still be forced to work with the very stack your company is building with.... Then you'd know there's no master in any language and everyone is practically still learning or a learner.


You never learn anything and you're already feeling on top of the world like a level 10000 developer I pity any team they'd set you up with in future

You'd be that one person everyone wouldn't want to work with... A glorified ITK

When you start submitting your CV up and down then you'd realize a very different type of struggle all together... I'm sure you don't even have any type of cert or recommendations from anyone...

You think getting even an interview is easy


You Nono say na 9ja you the


Your eye go soon clear

Blah blah blah. Whatever you wish me I wish you back 10 folds, and whatever you wish me I claim the opposite for myself.

Lol. Connection is not my problem, ode. I have a cousin who is a Senior backend dev and I have a close friend who currently works for Google and has connections in Nigeria. My parents also have connection. Connections is trash if you don't have the knowledge you need to pass the interview.

Gordson:
By the time you are done with all these nonsense you are doing... your mates would have changed their job 3 times, built strong network in the industry, in places they've worked and would easily land a new job through referrals from their previous jobs or co-workers while you are still jostling for your first job with those who started programming 2 months ago.

Keep playing

Absolute trash. Change job three times ko. Lol. In this current job market? With their bullshit Frontend skills that no company cares about anymore unless they have backend skills to back it up?

I'm learning to be an above average developer. Being good at leetcoding alone even puts me above all the frontend clowns, and this would still be the case even if I didn't know how to write a single line of CSS or Reactjs.

I'm not in competition with anybody. I gave myself a year to be a good developer and I'm only half way. I have my needs met. I'm not hungry or homeless. I have almost 24hrs electricity, free WiFi and enough time to code without disturbance. I'm not working or in desperate need for a job at the moment. So let me learn.

Paystack:
Clap for yourself


You successfully listed nonsense and ingredients yet nothing to Show


All your so called projects are 100% something you typed code for code from YouTube... Was even thinking you'd list out something unique and meaningful.


It's still same Ecom nonsense and social media jargon.


You claim your parents a rich meaning you're privileged... Yet here you are laughing at the less privileged who want to scale up there future, get a Job as soon as possible and start developing any skill required for the Job as they work and progress.


All in all you're just a lady who feels too special of herself because she thinks she's been grinding and learning many nonsense she probably still knows very little about.


Jack of all trades... Master of non

The fake, sham and fraud developer you speak of and despise so much is what you're setting yourself up to be... Jumping here and there thinking that's how it works in real life.


You'd soon get a reality check

The project's I mentioned are real world projects that have the functionality you'll see in most real world applications. What other type of real world web apps do you want to create with react and express?

I'm not a jack of all trades master of none. I have a structured learning path
HTML - CSS - JavaScript - Typescript - React/Nextjs - Nodejs - Express - MongoDB - SQL - C# - .Net

That's all. And I'm already in the final stages. In between I'm learning DSAs and leetcoding. The goal is to have a career as a full stack web developer.

My path is better than all the clowns learning HTML CSS, JavaScript and React that don't even reach the advanced react topics or practice coding challenges with the JavaScript that they don't even know well.

Paystack:
You're the one who's useless, uncouth and talks anyhow like a crazy psycho all because you're learning something millions of people have learnt before.


You're busy looking down on people who know JavaScript and it's framework when you have absolutely Zero projects or anything tangible to show as progress you've made.


All your gratifications and validations are from yourself and you alone and trust me bro


You're a laughable human, a proud somebody and one who talks anyhow just because they feel they know more than their neighbor.


You're the one who should be laughed at and chastise because of your vile post and extreme negativity towards others who are proud of their current achievements.



Just so you know.... learning C# still doesn't make you a Bona fide junior dev.


You must learn numerous machine language and learn how the computer or any device converts electrical pulses into binary.


You must also learn how to build your own computer and operating system.


Okpo Mrs I know everything yet you know nothing... all what you claim you know so far are basically surface level... you have 0 something to show you know exactly what you claim you know.




If anybody else was to come here and list all the nonsense you listed above, You'd be the first to jump into the thread and start pouring out your anger and frustration

This is a link to a thread I created 2 months into my learning. Unlike clowns that post fake ass projects that they can easily clone from GitHub or copy from tutorials, I put myself on the spot and asked people to test my skills.

https://www.nairaland.com/7534595/css-challenge-post-ui-ill

When I have time I'll do the same thing but this time it will be a Fullstack project built with react and express from scratch. And all of you will be here to test my skills and verify my code for best practices. I'll create a new GitHub for this. Any fuçking project you have in mind I'll build it and style it within few hours with any of Tailwind, Styled Components, MUI, Sass or vanilla CSS.

I'll create the thread for this challenge before this month runs out. You think I'm your average copy and paste junior? Lol.

I already built a frontend e-commerce store with react and redux tool kit 2 months ago into my learning. I shared the code with Qtguru and Greatigboman and they helped me straighten out the areas I was having issues. But this was over 4 months ago. I'm 10 times a better dev now.

Since then I've built:

~ Fullstack e-commerce store with stripe

~Fullstack social media app with authentication, authorization, notifications, likes, follows and picture uploads.

~ Fullstack Books rating website with admin dashboard and user registration and ability to save books to favorites. (Because I'm obsessed with books)

All styled with ideas from dribble.

~I've also completed a lot of the advanced and Guru level coding projects on Frontend mentors. I've built countless other small projects. Currently I'm recreating all of them using typescript and also refactoring my Js code. I'd share my GitHub but I want to remain anonymous, at least for now.

Besides, these projects are not special. Any full stack Javascript dev should be able to make them. When I create my thread I'll mention all of you so you can test my skills by challenging me with your own unique projects ideas. I learn better under pressure anyway.

What will set me apart is DSAs, strong CS fundamentals and knowing a strongly typed Object oriented language like C#, not all these bullshit Javascript crap I listed.

Paystack:
I've learnt this I've learnt that with nothing to show for.


All on paper and trust me bro


If you feel you must learn C++ or .Net before you'd consider yourself a junior then that's your own prerogative... stop enforcing your useless principles on others you idiotic bomboclat

I'm learning C# not C++. For someone calling me an idiot I'd expect you to know something this basic.

There are lots of C# jobs for all levels and the market isn't as competitive as the frontend and nodejs market. The fact I also know React and Typescript makes my resume even better because most .Net shops use React on the frontend. I'm just increasing my skill set and setting myself apart.

Yes, I can not call myself a junior developer unless I know the fundamentals of computer science and understand Data structures and Algorithms to a high level. You really don't know the opportunities this knowledge creates for you and how it makes you a better developer in general.

What I've noticed is most junior devs in Nigeria are rushing. They skip the basics and start copying coding tutorials and building toy projects with excessive animations and then think they are junior developers, and then they start posting it on twitter to get likes from fellow frontend clowns. Something I can do in few hours. Give them a leetcode or Hackerank problem and they can't solve. They won't even know where to start from. Rubbish and orishirishi!!

tensazangetsu20:
I hope you are sending out applications already if you already know all you have listed here. Don't waste more time.

I'm a serious self critic. I'll not feel confident interviewing for any job until I feel I'm ready. And to be honest I'm not ready. I have set very high standards for myself. Yes I've read all the advice to start sending applications early, and learning to interview by interviewing, and learning on the job, blah blah. But unlike a lot of people, I'm not in need of money at the moment( lucky to have rich parents) and I have time all day and all the resources to learn, and that's what I'm focused on.

I'm not in any rush. The moment I start sending applications, it's going to derail my learning. I'm currently learning C#, .Net and SQL and building bigger projects with React, Node and express. Also practicing DSAs and leetcoding like crazy. All this will be useful when I am ready to get a job. I already gave myself till November so I'm not in any rush.

For those insulting me, just know that I've been learning for months like a mad woman. I'm not your average developer. I have time and I'm not in any rush. Even though I'm still a junior I'm very intelligent and learning at a fast pace.

Despite criticizing JavaScript and the CSS crap, I know how to use them well oh. In just 7 months of learning:

I've used Javascript to solve problems on Codewars up to Kata 4, I've solved lots of questions on Hackerrank and I've solved lots of leetcode easy questions with optimal solutions. Again I'm not your average beginner dev.

I've learned react to an advanced level and by that I mean I've learned routing, data fetching using server side state management tools like React Query; learned how to cache data and use mutations. I've also learned Redux tool kit and RTKQuery(builders and thunks) and I've built full stack applications with it using Nodejs and express on the backend and MongoDB and Mongoose as database and object modeling tool respectively.

I know Typescript to intermediate level. Learning C# even makes Typescript look like trash. But at least it's better than JavaScript.

I have learned 3 CSS libraries: Tailwind, Material UI, Styled Components and the preprocessor SASS. I know how to use animation libraries like framer motion. I can use React hook form and Yup.

On the backend I've learned Authentication and Authorization using JsonWebTokens, cookies and password encryption using bycrpt. I've learned the MVC structure of Models, Views and Controllers and always implement them in my api projects. I can do error handling. And I'm still learning more stuff like Scalability, security, sockets and writing tests.

Still I don't think I'm even ready for a job. Yes I can gain experience working blah blah, but I'm still learning. And I am not under any illusion that those crap skills i listed up there are enough to call myself a junior developer. Until I learn C#, .Net and SQL and build backend apps with them and leetcode to medium level with C#, only then I'll be able to call myself a junior dev.

The job market is tough and I'm going to put every effort to make sure I'm a step above my peers. I know frontend better than all those junior clowns on Twitter that are calling themselves frontend developers with their nonsense projects that will take me 30 minutes to finish. Yet I will never call myself a frontend developer.

niel63:
The earlier you realise that frontend isn't for you, the better you are.
My point is, people hate what they don't understand.

Op sound really really frustrated and forgot about the job market.
Different folks, different strokes sha.
You hate javascript yet you can't do without it.

Well, that's why it's everywhere and every language dey try one way or the other integrate am into their system... even if na plugin.

Frontend is hard. Take it or leave it.

You have to be a very creative person to understand the intricacies involved in it.
Frontend this, frontend that, yet... most Jobs you see out there have atleast one opening for this role.

The earlier you quit the hate for something you don't understand, the better for you.

If you get a USD7k frontend gig, please bring it to me. I will execute it whilst you wait for your Fortran or Scala role.
But mind you, before you'd be picked, the company would rather go for veterans in the system.

Modified:
I know even know why I answer you sef. You be rubbish person.

You once stated you hated backend.

https://www.nairaland.com/7554334/back-end-development-boring-hate-it

And I understand you just started the whole tech journey last year 2022.

You really have a long way to go. Just dey play.

Why are you triggered by my post? You guys should learn to address the message and not the messenger. Everything I have said is the truth whether I started coding last year or not.

Yes I said I hated backend, but that post was months ago, and I have come to love and appreciate it, not just within the javascript/typescript space. Besides, I am actually good with frontend. And I will keep honing my frontend skills, while I also learn techstacks that are less saturated.

Most jobs require frontend, but they also usually require backend knowledge, especially with Java and c#. If you know C#/.Net and/or Java/Springboot and you also know React and or Angular, then you are a step above majority of the job market, especially currently. I am talking from actual research. There are very few frontend jobs currently and they require senior devs with many years of experience. It's foolish for anyone to pigeonhole themselves into Frontend in this current market.

Gordson:
But why are you wailing always!! Are you scared that everyone is doing what you do!! The easy JavaScript stack you are still a beginner at, yet you say trash about it every time.

a confused beginner having nonsense opinion everywhere.... like wat the HELL!!!

Get a life yo silly thing and let others learn whatever they are comfortable with. And if you think you don't have a chance at getting a job in that saturated pool, skill up or go sell pepper

Insult me all you want. But I'm speaking the truth. Yes I'm a beginner but I'm not your average beginner. I'm built differently and I know how to do proper research.

I carried out a serious research on Indeed and Glassdoor and documented it on this thread few days ago and it echos everything I've been saying.

https://www.nairaland.com/7704855/comprehensive-research-junior-jobs-across

Honestly, I don't even want this message I'm sharing to be accessed by many people. The more people(juniors especially) are focused on Frontend and MERN stack the better for me and the less competitive job hunting will be for me.

Luckydonalds:
OP, some people just want to make bank. They're satisfied with just learning how to write frontend code and backend APIs and that's fine as far as they know their onions well. The true hallmark of an engineer is getting stuff done efficiently.

Others, like myself enjoy low level programming and learn things they probably will never need and that's fine too.

You probably have zero knowledge on the inner workings of databases, operating systems, computer architecture, compilers, computer communication (networking) but think it's okay to shit on stacks.

You shouldn't decide for others which stack dey should learn.

Currently, the JavaScript ecosystem is the most easily accessible to newbies and that's why most people are starting out with it.

If you are finding it difficult to get jobs, SKILL UP rather than throwing shades at stacks.

The problem is that writing frontend code and basic api with node and express isn't enough to get a job currently. The market is overflooded with people who have this exact same skill set.

Maybe a year ago you could learn Frontend and node and get a job, but right now the market is tough. This Mern/Pern field is oversaturated. And more and more beginners are being led into this field by Greedy YouTube bastards who just want to sell their stupid udemy courses and get views on their YouTube channels..

The tech fields that have high demand and low supply are C#/.Net and Java/Springboot + devops and cloud(AWS/Azure) but you will never see beginners venturing into this fields. It's always frontend and MERN with 2000 applicants for one job opening.

Plus JavaScript doesn't teach good programming fundamentals and most people who persuade beginners into learning this tech stack never teach them DSAs and proper, OOP which are very necessary to become a good developer whether you want to make money or not.

Failure2019:
Your followers and followings are front end peeps

I've seen nigerians that code C/C++ , Go , Ruby and Fortran and they're on Twitter .

My analysis isn't based on my followers or who I'm following. It's gotten from analyzing hundreds of comments from the comment section of tech promoters with thousands of followers, from job/intership posting, joining Twitter chat spaces etc.

I honestly don't know who is coding in Fortran in 2023. But yes there are Go, Ruby and C++ Nigerian devs on Twitter. But the vast majority of developers on Twitter, especially the Juniors are all JavaScript and CSS people.

okosodo:
There is a job for everyone in the tech world if you just look well. If you are innovative start a project

There are currently no jobs for junior Frontend developers. Except the 1% who are extremely gifted, know SQL, can solve DSA and whip up an API if asked to.

truthCoder:
Churning out statistics without proper and validated research is not a good thing.

90% this, everyone (implying 100%) is that…

The same Nigerian devs you complain about have part of the most valuable tech startups in Africa and get cumulatively, the most funding continent wide. Don’t take my word for it, check on Google.

And guess which stack they are using?

I am unapologetic about my JavaScript/Typescript leanings. I am not ashamed of it. My employers and investors are not complaining and my projects surprisingly work when I deploy them. I am not even a great developer.

I have seen programming wizards who can make codes sing in fewer lines than my comment here and they would never ridicule someone’s stack.

At the end of the day, it is not the tools that matter but your ability to make them do exactly what you want.

90% is a reserved percentage. The percentage is even higher. A popular tech promoter with over 100k followers made a comment asking Nigerians to mention their tech stack and I painstakingly went through all the comments.(Over 500 comments) ALMOST everyone was a JavaScript/Frontend developer. It was shocking. And I follow a lot of these popular tech people and whenever they make these kinds of posts it's always the same responses.

I'm not making mockery of the JavaScript tech stack. I'm making mockery of the fact that almost everyone is doing it, obviously because it's "easy" to learn. I'm also criticizing it because it doesn't teach programming fundamentals which are necessary to becoming a good software developer and most people who "learn" it think they can call themselves software developers because they can make some bullshit website with react.

It's becoming a joke right now. Almost everybody is a Javascript developer. Everyone's tech stack is HTML, CSS, JavaScript, React/Vue Nodesjs and MongoDB + a bunch of CSS frameworks. Sometimes you'll see a splattering of Python and Django.

I had this mentality before but this has changed in recent months.

Hardly will you see a beginner/ junior learning C#/.Net or Java/Springboot or even SQL.
Many of these JavaScript people don't even learn Typescript or know about it's existence. The only thing they know is the same redundant bullshit that greedy YouTube marketers and Twitter hype clowns are feeding them.

No one wants to learn programming fundamentals. No one wants to learn proper OOP. No one wants to learn Data structures and Algorithms. They just want to copy and paste code from YouTube project tutorials, tweak it and push it to GitHub. Give them a simple coding test or DSA Easy question and they will fail.

They learn all the bullshit CSS frameworks but can't even solve a simple two sum problem, even with a brute force solution, and they will boldly call themselves software developers.

Everyone has the same resume. It's actually a joke now. A job posting for "Frontend developer" gets 400 applications in under one hour because that's what everyone is doing. Now I understand why the current job market is the way it is. People think they can just watch some bullshit MERN stack tutorial and that's all they need to become a developer.

Even the JavaScript clowns that know nodejs are better off than the frontend crew. Frontend is actually a dead field at the moment. I've been doing my research. Frontend developers on Reddit with 6+ years of experience are finding it hard to get jobs whereas a dev with 6months of #C/.net experience is bombarded with messages from recruiters on linkedIn desperately in need of C# developers.

Yet 90% of Nigerian Tech Twitter is made up of frontend developers. LMFAO. I wonder where they will find jobs..

I like the trend. Like is even an understatement. I'm enjoying the trend. Let everyone keep shoe horning themselves into the same already saturated box, while I focus on tech-stacks with high demand but low supply, while still having good knowledge of their saturated tech stack.

Las Las, knowledge is power and one should always be weary when majority of people are heading in the same direction. Whenever everyone is doing the same thing, then that thing is usually wrong.

"Narrow is the way that leads to heaven. And wide is the way that leads to hell." I don't blame these people Sha. Learning Javascript and CSS bullshit is easier than learning C# or Java. But it's the harder, less competitive paths that pay well in the end.

excanny:
can you make a similar one for Senior roles?

I don't think I can be motivated enough to scour through over 1000 job postings for senior roles since it's of no use to me.

The only reason I did this painstaking research is because I'm a junior developer myself and I wanted to know the current state of the junior developer job market

It's important to note that there were very few frontend positions as most junior positions were "Fullstack", which required knowledge of both frontend and backend frameworks. Eg React or Angular on the frontend and .Net or Spring on the backend

Europe

In parts of Europe aside from UK, react was also the most sort after, followed by Angular and then Vue.

Below are the percentages

React - 64%
Angular - 29%
Vue - 7%

United Kingdom

In the United kingdom, React was in very high demand with over 70% of frontend and Fullstack openings requiring it.

Surprisingly Vue came second with Angular having the least openings for junior positions.

Below are the percentages.

React - 71%
Vue - 16%
Angular - 13%

US and Canada

In the US and Canada, there were more Angular junior positions than React, with very few openings for Vue.

Below are the percentages.

Angular - 51%
React - 46%
Vue - 3%

Frontend.

Globally
For frontend frameworks, React is the most sort after for junior developers globally, followed closely by Angular and then Vue.

I didn't see a single job posting for Svelte.

Below are the percentages

React - 57%
Angular - 39%
Vue - 4%

Europe

The European countries(outside of the UK) that I focused my research on were Germany, Netherlands, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Portugal

This time, Java was the most sort after backend language, followed by C# and then Nodejs


Below are the percentages

Java - 49%
C# - 30%
Nodejs - 17%
Python - 3%
PHP- 1%
Go - 0%
Ruby - 0%

United Kingdom

In the United kingdom C# again was the backend language with highest demand for junior developers but this time, Python came second with Nodejs trailing behind in third.

Below are the percentages.
C# - 49%
Python - 22%
Nodejs - 12%
Java - 11%
PHP - 6%
Go - 0%
Ruby - 0%

US & Canada

In the United states and Canada, C# was the most sort after, followed closely by Java.

Below are the percentages.

C# - 51%
Java - 30%
Python - 8%
PHP - 5%
Nodejs - 4%
Go - 1%
Ruby - 1 %

I'll start with the backend tech

Globally

The most sort after backend language for junior developers globally was surprisingly C#
It had lots of openings for juniors along with it's .Net framework.

These are the percentages in terms of job posting for junior developers world wide

C# - 45%
Java - 28%
Python - 11%
Nodejs - 8%
PHP - 6%
Go - 1%
Ruby - 1%

My search paremeter was "Junior developer" as this would include both web developer jobs and software developer jobs

The primary languages and associated frameworks that my research was based on were as follows.

For frontend:
Javascript frameworks: React, Angular and Vue

For Backend:
Java, Nodejs, Python, C#, PHP, Go, Ruby

I didn't include languages like C++ as they weren't relevant to my research.

Bear in mind that I went through over 1000 junior developer job postings.

With the recent layoffs and fear-mongering regarding AI taking junior jobs, as well as the supposed "oversaturation" of Junior entry developer positions, I decided to scour the web for languages and stacks that are currently in high demand, especially within the last 2 months.

After being unsatisfied with the information I was getting from blogs and forums like Reddit and Nairaland, I decided to take it upon myself to do a comprehensive research of all Junior developer job posting across platforms like Indeed and Glassdoor.

Below is the result of my research.

This clown went to copy and paste code.

Your portfolio website was" built the frontend with React TypeScript, Sass CSS and deployed on AWS Amplify and serverless backend with NodeJs, ExpressJs, MongoDb, AWS Lambda and AWS API Gateway." Lol. What nonsense. The stupid portfolio site doesn't even have any functionality and links don't go anywhere.

It is rubbish junior devs like this copy and paste clown that have made the job market oversaturated and difficult to get into.

Nonsense. You can't teach CSS in two weeks.

I've been learning to code for over 6 months and I haven't "learned" CSS. I've built lot of cool stuff and even accepted live projects from people on this thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/7534595/css-challenge-post-ui-ill

yet I still don't think I've "learned" CSS.

Stop deceiving people. It will take someone new to programming at least 1 month to be comfortable with the HTML and CSS syntax and then at least another one month to actually start learning how it all actually works.

ChatGPT is just a very fast googling interface that steals code from GitHub.

I've seen it return code -- word for word -- many times from various GitHub repositories.

Whenever you ask it to give you code that does something, it just goes to GitHub and searches for a repository with a description that matches your question.