₦airaland Forum

elampiro: U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down
BY DAN WHITCOMB.

LOS ANGELES Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:28pm EST

(Reuters) - A massive cross that serves as part of a war memorial on a San Diego hilltop must be dismantled because it has been found to violate a constitutional ban on government endorsement of religion, a federal judge grudgingly ruled on Thursday.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns marks the latest development in a long-running legal battle over the 43-foot-tall cross, a local landmark that has stood on top of Mount Soledad since 1954 and is visible for miles.

Burns stayed his order to give the Obama administration and the association that erected the cross, which have fought its removal all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, a chance to file another appeal. Otherwise, he said, the monument must be taken down within 90 days.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/13/us-usa-california-cross-idUSBRE9BC02Q20131213?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

No tolerance for Christianity. Every thing christian is been taken down and dismantled while gay pride, gay parades, etc are encouraged and christians forced to tolerate their evil ways. Whose right is actually being violated?

Thanks for sharing
Thank God some people are beginning to understand the satanic agenda.
That is why I marvel at those who call themself Christians and yet support homosexuals.

swiftycool: I really can't promise anything right now over the discussed position but send a mail with your cv and a simple cover letter about ur general abilities, skills and experience that u think can be useful to a construction/manufacturing coy to spacesolutions@contractor.net
Note: this email addy would be off this page by sunday night. State ur nl user name too

Good Man! Now you are talking

Homosexuals always thinx they got an opinion! Shitty people!

swiftycool: I expected some pervert to come up with this stupid assumption and gladly you didn't dissapoint! For your information if you are the kind of person who lends out a helping hand only for what he can get, then sorry am NOT like you, I do it out of the blessings I've received and to make it multiply!

At the momment I am way above in exposure, class and level of my ex and NO I am not interested in sleeping with her nor did I encourage her dirty talks, most of which I asume were expensive jokes which I frowned at in the chats!
I even discussed with my woman about this before I brought it to NL and she agreed I employed him as she believed her tactics were due to desperation, however I came here because I am sure to meet people with some experience who can give a better advice not silly insults.

So dinachi or whatever you call yourself keep your insult, curses and silly responses to yourself and if you desperately need to show your agbero punching skills I suggest u go to a motor park where ur ilk abound.

Thanks everyone else for your valuable advice its much appreciated.

Now you see lame explanations.......
I will not justify foolery. Just as I will not take that kind of Bull crap from any ex married or unmarried so also I will expect my fellow man to hold his head high and protect another man's family. You permit your ex to disrespect her husband, you permit her to talk dirty to you, you permit her to fantasize about having your baby secretly.YOU ARE A VERY WICKED FELLOW! My hand is still waiting to find you jaw. Men like you seduce married women away from their husbands with cash gifts. WHY ARE YOU GIVING HER MONEY SECRETLY? WHY? WHY? WHY? Where did you people meet and hand over the cash, in a hotel room perhaps? Don't let me catch you! YOU ARE GIVING A MARRIED WOMAN CASH GIFTS SECRETLY AS A PRELUDE TO HAVING HER BABY FOR YOU ABI. You are thick!

@ OP sorry I may have to sound blunt. I think you want to sleep with your married ex. How can you continue to allow a married woman to be talking dirty to you? When did you decide to employ the husband before or after the dirty talk and the promise of carrying your baby? Some men are very wicked and heartless. Do you think every condition is permanent? May the almighty help that man to get a job and divorce that woman, she is not worthy to be a wife. As far as I am concerned, she is already cheating. It all starts from the mind and you aided and are aiding it. get out of here with your hipocritical help and may your wife talk dirty to another man and promise to carry another man's baby secretly. Lets see whether you will accept a job from such a man. You are not trying to be good, you are just trying to justify your wanting and possibly sleeping with another man's wife. I wish you are close so i could land you a well deserved punch in the face!

beryl04: Black nigerian monkey feeling funky! Run back into ur cave and come out say 50yrs time. M.u.m.u

See Idiocy masquerading as competence. Homosexual masquerading as normal. The effect of anal cancer manifesting! Crawl back to the anus where you came from !

beryl04: Hey monkeys don't run away now! Stick around some more and fill us with that your hate and ignorant infused gibberish.u guys are really d best that Nigeria your conquered territory can boast off.m.or.ons!

Says a western oriented slave homosexual beryl04 aping his discombobulated homosexual white slave masters

@ OP Obasanjo is a lion that dosen't roar all the time. When he roars all other lesser animals best be concerned. Every government that Obasanjo has ever confronted openly always ends ignobly. Check the stats from Babangida and Abacha. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE END! Yes I said it.

[quote author=MR.SANITY]I really do not have issues with lesbians, if they are pretty and sexy but if they look like men- the baritone, muscles, hairy legs, yam legs, no breasts, veins all over, etc, those ones can GO AND DIE. [/quote]

beryl04: Demented jobless dimwits,it seems u guys doesn't have anything else to do other than to follow this topic and jump around like apes that u lots are! Who's to blame now ASUU,again?

At your age you are still complaining about ASUU no wonder, so we have been talking all this while with a year one student?
By the time you contact anal cancer, your eye go clear. Homosexual slowpoke!

[quote author=MR.SANITY]Encouraging a man to fck another man in the anus is ur definition of progressive! I spit on u#[/quote]My brother no mind the demented homosexual. Now Nigerians know their level of intelligence. Very soon their judgement will start!

beryl04: Come up with something new,this one's kinda stale.
Or better still hang around and continue shouting your voice hoarse.u and ur ilk are the sick ones, dumbazz basic niqqa.

So says a homosexual person with a bleeding anus!
This is not one of your conquered territory where you spew rubbish and wait for support from your sheepish admirers! We have had the privilege to dissect and expose your lies. From here on your territory starts to shrink!

beryl04: This dinachi guy, u lurking around is not going to help u at all ,what u need is sound education about anthropology vis-a-vis human sexual behavior.u need to get ur head a Lil bit out of the bible and also out of the out-moded and rustic African mentality and study humans more.better still d education u need is right here on nairaland and u can dig up some threads on gay issues, where a lot of extensive discourse had been held on gays and enlighten your self.
whatever ur writing here and standing around to defend is not yielding any result rather it kinda makes u appear fooolish,thick and downright ridiculous!
U cannot change people's sexual orientation. u can shout from the rooftop and have some feeble ones cower but they're wired that way and cannot change .u can write and inspire people with a view to propagate hate, but ask urself to what end.if u kill all d homosexuals around or deny them their rights, it's still not gonna stop them from being who they are.
The west was even worse than this on the homosexuals but today they know better.this ur hype against gays was just like Europe in middle ages, say btw 1100AD to early 20th century.today they read all this rubbish your posting here and wonder what is really wrong with the black man! Must u all be so slow?they wonder ,and with the questions comes racism.think Mr man this is not 1200 AD anymore and no amount of the hate u propagate here is gonna change the course of a moving train.the world laughs at u and ur fellow bigots!

All this nonsense and you still believe you are sane? Counter the ten points I raised or shut the Bleep up! All of you Homosexual fucktards have no respect for your anatomy and your creator. That is why you crave a fellow man's poo hole and keep spreading diseases to the whole world.YOU ARE THICK!

Let me make it easy for you.
Are you aware that pedoph1les are claiming a sexual orientation too? So you support those who sleep with children? You must be a very wicked fellow. The vagina and the penis are built for sex and procreation not the anus! You exist today because your father and mother did the needful. Now you are here spewing rubbish. No matter how much you tell a lie, it can never be the truth. Homosexuality and marriage does not belong to the same sentence. But you can readily find homosexuality and depravity easily belonging to the same pack. Stop embarrassing yourself. After you homosexuals and your sick cousins the pedohp1les lay claim to sexual orientation, who else? Maybe we should be warming up for bestiality practitioners to lay claim to a sexual orientation too. UNA NO DEY TIRE TO DONATE NEW DISEASES TO PEOPLE? Enemies of God and the people!

No be me talk oh, just saw it and thought I should share.....things are really getting out of hand!

Is no longer news lesbianism is growing quickly in the Nigeria entertainment industry and beyond,is really shocking to see some so called role model to our young one on this list…very sad.

Besides the acclaimed lesbians and bi-sexuals like Weird MC, Kween Onakala and Rita the ex-beauty queen, did you ever stop to ponder the fact that Nigeria, today is literally crawling with lesbians? This investigation carried out by IDNobble’s blog reveals that, unlike adultery, it is easier for married Nigerian women to engage in lesbianism, since husbands hardly suspect that anything is amiss when their wives hangout with their female friends. Did you know, for example that a leading Nigerian woman, whose husband, Umoru, recently died is a lesbian. Another top lesbian, Duku, once fought another….

Continue to see more shocking names….

Northern female top shot, who she learnt had slept with Umoru’s widow. The daughter of a South South governor, we hear is also in the club . Named Maria, she graduated from Ambrose Alli University, Ekpoma. When the fire on the mountain crooner, who reportedly sleeps with her female manager visited Asaba sometime ago, both women we gather shamelessly fornicated in the musician’s hotel suite. Consider also 9ice’s sister-in-law. They say she too swings both ways.

Still in the West, a popular Erelu, believe it or not, is a raving lesbo. Back to Abuja, there’s the story of Aishatu who made the costly mistake of double dating two lesbians. When they found out (because we hear that lesbians are a very jealous lot) this young lawyer had to scamper out of the FCT pronto. Hear she now lives in the U.S.A. Consider also the following young ladies who ply their trade in Nigeria’s film industry. She is fondly called Genie by her friends. This dark Nollywood queen is a champion in this game. She is not alone in this because the likes of that Onyibo looking Yoruba actress who shares surname with the brothers who invented the Airplane.

Remember the hot and sexy Ebube, wow! This hot sex machine that should have been a blessing to men’s world also enjoys doing her follow babes. Don’t forget the Emem cabal, they are a group of ladies in Nollywood who do not give a damn about the men’s piston and the miliki it gives to women, they do everything together and this includes kissing each other and caressing each other’s water-melons, if you know what I mean, their names are Uche, Ntse and the very yellow complexioned beauty who shares a name with one of Da Vinci’s famous works. What of Nollywood’s weeping child? Ah, she too is involved, I mean madam Nkiru you should know her of course, the yellow lady that was a given a juice park to suck on TV, wonder if that is the way she sucks her fellow babe? Ah, na you know oh.

The rest are Fathia, the Delta born Yoruba actress, Tonto, whose bed partner is also a Nollwood gal who goes by the name, Halima. We also hear that Anitawhose body looks like that of Hulk Hugan is also super when handling her fellow woman on bed. Others are Elfreda, Mariam who might haveAppolo, Linda, Eniola a.k.a Gbogbo bigs girls,Nene, and madam lepa .Please don’t be angry if your name wasn’t mentioned.

http://obipost.com/2013/12/e-x-p-o-s-e-d-all-nigerian-actresses-are-lesbians/

GSKing: A good lawyer You say? In what country? definitely not the liberal ones..!
About marriage, don't fool yourself, this is 2013 not 1020 BC...

I don't have strength for fucktards this night... my pillow needs to feel my head..!

btw... what made you think I have a bleeding anus? My azzs hole is intact you bloody religious mofo

As usual he side steps the salient point raised! I raised ten points why gay marriage is harmful you cannot even counter one. Get it into your thick skull you cannot legislate peoples beliefs! The baker was right on all counts! You cannot force me to accept a lifestyle I find despicable. YOU ARE THICK!

frenex: She's a final year student and she's not working

Now you see! The dolt dosen't even have a source of income and yet she has the temerity to accuse another one of not meeting her needs. That is why I say guys should be wise all the time. STOP SUCKING UP TO WOMEN! Some one somewhere has deceived her. She is not worth the guys time. he should as a matter of urgency appraise his options.

GSKing: Go and sleep Aboki, I won't feed your ignorance and promote bigotry here..!

Answer the salient points raised or go and treat your bleeding anus, simple!
It is ignorance of the highest order to say that people do not choose who they work for. It is like you want to resign from a company citing your religious beliefs and they refuse your resignation and punish you for CHOOSING to terminate your services. Any good lawyer worth his salt will so make the baker look good that they will elect him for mayor!

As for your embarrassing naivety on what a marriage is..........

GSKing: Irritating ignorance!


As for your 10th point, stick it up your religiously homophobic azss, you brainwashed backward minded bigot!

As usual, you cant counter the points because your anus is bleeding!

GSKing: ^Nonsense! It's still not by force to comment! Stop remixing what billions have said already!

Must you comment? You make no sense at all!

As usual the kindergarten President misses this one again! Amaechi is a HERO of the masses for leaking this letter so that we can know what is happening to our oil wealth. When he raised alarm about the loss of 5billion Dollars a lot of people thought he was joking now we know how bad it is. When jonathans incompetence is exposed they usually blame it on the opposition. Pray, tell how opposition take do this one? ENEMIES OF THE MASSES!

It is a blessing in disguise. God is just trying to save the guys life. I think, the OP should tell the guy and the guy should call the gold digging lady and inform her that he is divorcing her for being too poor and for not contributing anything financially to the union. Then let him watch her reaction. Cunny man die cunny man bury am! God save us from these leeches!

This case is a watershed and I think the man should get a good lawyer to make a mince meat of them.
What the government is telling the man is to JETTISON his religious beliefs in favor of homosexuality ! So government now legislate peoples religious beliefs in the US that prides itself as the center of freedom?

chynazom: This is just like suing a landlord because he did not rent his apartment to a particular person...*person dey quarrel you for ur own thing*

Or suing Mr. Seun cos he did not accept an advertisement *no insult intended*

As long as refusal is not done harshly..

Perfect!

10 Reasons Why Homosexual “Marriage” is Harmful and Must be Opposed


1. It Is Not Marriage

Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.

The promoters of same-sex “marriage” propose something entirely different. They propose the union between two men or two women. This denies the self-evident biological, physiological, and psychological differences between men and women which find their complementarity in marriage. It also denies the specific primary purpose of marriage: the perpetuation of the human race and the raising of children.

Two entirely different things cannot be considered the same thing.



2. It Violates Natural Law

Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

Natural law’s most elementary precept is that “good is to be done and pursued, and evil is to be avoided.” By his natural reason, man can perceive what is morally good or bad for him. Thus, he can know the end or purpose of each of his acts and how it is morally wrong to transform the means that help him accomplish an act into the act’s purpose.

Any situation which institutionalizes the circumvention of the purpose of the sexual act violates natural law and the objective norm of morality.

Being rooted in human nature, natural law is universal and immutable. It applies to the entire human race, equally. It commands and forbids consistently, everywhere and always. Saint Paul taught in the Epistle to the Romans that the natural law is inscribed on the heart of every man. (Rom. 2:14-15)

3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother

It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent.

The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex “marriage.” A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model.

Same-sex “marriage” ignores a child’s best interests.

4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle

In the name of the “family,” same-sex “marriage” serves to validate not only such unions but the whole homosexual lifestyle in all its bisexual and transgender variants.

Civil laws are structuring principles of man's life in society. As such, they play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behavior. They externally shape the life of society, but also profoundly modify everyone’s perception and evaluation of forms of behavior.

Legal recognition of same-sex “marriage” would necessarily obscure certain basic moral values, devalue traditional marriage, and weaken public morality.

5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right

Homosexual activists argue that same-sex “marriage” is a civil rights issue similar to the struggle for racial equality in the 1960s.

This is false.

First of all, sexual behavior and race are essentially different realities. A man and a woman wanting to marry may be different in their characteristics: one may be black, the other white; one rich, the other poor; or one tall, the other short. None of these differences are insurmountable obstacles to marriage. The two individuals are still man and woman, and thus the requirements of nature are respected.

Same-sex “marriage” opposes nature. Two individuals of the same sex, regardless of their race, wealth, stature, erudition or fame, will never be able to marry because of an insurmountable biological impossibility.

Secondly, inherited and unchangeable racial traits cannot be compared with non-genetic and changeable behavior. There is simply no analogy between the interracial marriage of a man and a woman and the “marriage” between two individuals of the same sex.

6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union

Traditional marriage is usually so fecund that those who would frustrate its end must do violence to nature to prevent the birth of children by using contraception. It naturally tends to create families.

On the contrary, same-sex “marriage” is intrinsically sterile. If the “spouses” want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates. The natural tendency of such a union is not to create families.
Therefore, we cannot call a same-sex union marriage and give it the benefits of true marriage.

7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage

One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children—all fruit of the mutual affection of the parents. This aids in perpetuating the nation and strengthening society, an evident interest of the State.

Homosexual “marriage” does not provide such conditions. Its primary purpose, objectively speaking, is the personal gratification of two individuals whose union is sterile by nature. It is not entitled, therefore, to the protection the State extends to true marriage.

8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society

By legalizing same-sex “marriage,” the State becomes its official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval.

In the private sphere, objecting parents will see their children exposed more than ever to this new “morality,” businesses offering wedding services will be forced to provide them for same-sex unions, and rental property owners will have to agree to accept same-sex couples as tenants.

In every situation where marriage affects society, the State will expect Christians and all people of good will to betray their consciences by condoning, through silence or act, an attack on the natural order and Christian morality.

9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution

In the 1960s, society was pressured to accept all kinds of immoral sexual relationships between men and women. Today we are seeing a new sexual revolution where society is being asked to accept sodomy and same-sex “marriage.”

If homosexual “marriage” is universally accepted as the present step in sexual “freedom,” what logical arguments can be used to stop the next steps of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and other forms of unnatural behavior? Indeed, radical elements of certain “avant garde” subcultures are already advocating such aberrations.

The railroading of same-sex “marriage” on the American people makes increasingly clear what homosexual activist Paul Varnell wrote in the Chicago Free Press:

"The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality."

10. It Offends God

This is the most important reason. Whenever one violates the natural moral order established by God, one sins and offends God. Same-sex “marriage” does just this. Accordingly, anyone who professes to love God must be opposed to it.

Marriage is not the creature of any State. Rather, it was established by God in Paradise for our first parents, Adam and Eve. As we read in the Book of Genesis: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)

The same was taught by Our Savior Jesus Christ: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).

Genesis also teaches how God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality: “The Lord rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.” (Gen. 19:24-25)

How can anybody compare homosexuality with being black? This is seriously sickening! One is a race while the other is a sickening life style. @ Seun I hope you know that other sick minds in the US are also clamoring for Pedohp1lia to be recognized as a sexual orientation. That will be the day! Very soon they will start wedding children to these sick minds. Evil is slowly and steadily advancing and those who should know better are here talking about tolerance for evil.
The baker reserves the right to select who he wants to bake for. The business is his not the governments!
IF YOU ARE A PASTOR WILL YOU WED TWO HOMOSEXUAL MEN BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS SO?
Now the government wants to start controlling people's beliefs too. Does that not sound close to the kind of thing the antichrist will do.

History of Homosexual agitation in the US

PHASE ONE: Please decriminalize us , the government agrees.

PHASE TWO: Please recognize it as a sexual orientation, government agrees

PHASE THREE: Please let us have Civil Unions , the government agrees.

PHASE FOUR: Please let us have full Marriage Status, government sheepishly agrees again.

PHASE FIVE: Now you must force everybody to do our bidding!

History of Pedoph1le agitation in the US

PHASE ONE:Please recognize it as a sexual orientation, government agrees see here http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/01/many-experts-now-view-pedophilia-as-a-sexual-orientation-google-hangout.html

PHASE TWO: Coming soon

PHASE THREE:Coming soon

PHASE FOUR: Coming soon

PHASE FIVE: Coming soon

My people evil is gradually creeping forward, we need to checkmate it before we turn our world into a theater of the absurd!

These people with their evil agenda are becoming bolder and bolder. Don't be the silent majority whose silence allow evil to thrive. Our planet is degenerating, speak up for good.

Okay the husband dosen't have money, how much does she have herself or man and woman no equal again. The woman is a dunce. Is she rich? In this 21ist century it dosen't matter who has the money. We talk equality!

Seun: This type of discriminatory "beliefs" should not be tolerated. And frankly, there's nothing in the bible that says you shouldn't bake cakes for gays. Jesus allowed a prostitute to anoint him with oil, and he broke bread with a corrupt tax collector. How can baking cakes for gays be a sin? If Jesus was a baker and not a carpenter, I think he would have baked delicious cakes for gay people and used the opportunity to preach to them.

I don't believe that such an offense should attract jail term; it may be more appropriate to take away his business license for a few months.

If they are punishing him about his belief then that is too bad. Many people believe that their is no God, some believe that he exists who has punished them for their "discriminatory" beliefs? Some people believe that Homosexuals should marry, who has punished them?
The baker does not work for the government and therefore has the right to say please go to the next store I don"t want to attend to you. What of instances you visit a shop and the shop owner is closing and says I cant attend to you do you punish him? It is discriminatory to punish somebody for his beliefs or does the Homosexual government not tolerate those with opposing views? The shop owner did no wrong for saying he will not encourage the spread of Homosexuality by refusing his services. It is within his right to decide who to work for. THIS IS DOUBLE STANDARDS.
Homosexuals are looking for scape goats if not why didint the sickos go to another homosexual friendly baker to help them. We need to be very careful about this because very soon homosexuals will march into a church and demand that the pastor must wed them or face sanctions.


@ Seun my Million Dollar question to you is if you are a pastor and two homosexual men walk in to your church and demand that you wed them, what do you do?

In a singing voice....Is about to go down!

I thought they said APC had no supporters in Rivers State? So what is happening? The revolution has just begun! Amaechi for President 2015!

@ OP So you would have preferred South Africa to be like Mugabe's Zimbabwe? Mandela was wise enough to know that the blacks in South Africa were not united enough to sustain the country. Look at what Zimbabwe has become!

Why are they discriminating against him because of his beliefs? This just shows that the homosexuals are the bigots here. They adopt an attitude of if you don't agree with us we make your life miserable. But when they come to undefeated territory like Nigeria, they talk about hate and discrimination. Right now in their conquered territory, they discriminate against people because of their own beliefs. HYPOCRITES!

At the end of the day they will begin to look for surrogate mothers. Buahahahaha! If he came from his fathers anus then it is okay but if his father was a man and his mother a woman, then he has everything to lose. I don't need the information about homosexuals leading a country of homosexuals, it is not new, after all Sodom and Gomorrah had leaders too! I know that you need it to convince yourself about your despicable lifestyle, till you leave this world your conscience will always tell you that you are living a life of evil! YOUR SIN WILL FIND YOU OUT!
No matter what the homosexual PM and his partner does, the partner will never be the MOTHER of his children. They will have to hire a REAL MOTHER who will deliver the goods. Just to show their lifestyle is inferior !