₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
Now when the devil and the people from the four quarters of the earth try to fight after the millenial reign, this will happen and is Malachi's ref:


And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them
Revelation 20:9

This would happen before the Lake of fire judgement where all including those thus consumed will be cast into the lake of fire.

So Malachi 4 is a scene on earth, not referring to the Lake of fire.

If the fire devours them, and they still remain to be cast into the lake of fire, then the fire didn't really devour them. eh?

Scholar8200:
Now when the devil and the people from the four quarters of the earth try to fight after the millenial reign, this will happen and is Malachi's ref:


And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them
Revelation 20:9

This would happen before the Lake of fire judgement where all including those thus consumed will be cast into the lake of fire.

So Malachi 4 is a scene on earth, not referring to the Lake of fire.

After burning them down to ashes, their ashes will be thrown into the lake of fire?

Scholar8200:
Jesus clearly said the fire will never be quenched and the worms will not die, Revelations also said they will be tormented and HAVE NO REST day or night fOREVER!!!

In Jer. 17:27, GOD said that Jerusalem would burn with a fire that shall not be quenched. Is Jerusalem still burning today?

Scholar8200:
Sir, consider this:
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name Revelations 14:10,11 I believe this is clear enough and agrees with both Matthew 10 and Revelations 20

Compare Malachi 4:1,3. Can the wicked be alive and still be ashes?

Scholar8200:
Let's see:

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority
Rev. 13:2

The beast being talked about here is the Roman empire.

goodnews201668:
All these portions you are quoting has been discussed here. Matthew 10:28 interestingly didn't mention torment as you guys want to interpret it. Jesus rather used the word fear him that can "destroy" both body and soul. This means once a person is destroyed by God he has no prospect of life anymore!

WORD bro.

Scholar8200:
As for the men that will be cast there, we have other parallel passages that shows they would likewise be tormented forever.

Support your false doctrine of unending torture with a Bible text.

malvisguy212:
But their is NO place in the bible it was use to describe animal that will never die. But instead it was use to describe man's soul that will never die.

Do you know that the same thing that happens to animals is what happens to man?

"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they have all one breath; ... All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again" Eccl. 3:19,20.

If the same thing that happens to man happens to animals, are the souls of animals immortal too?

malvisguy212:
But instead it was use to describe man's soul that will never die.

Can you give one instance in the Bible?

The bolded part above: only GOD has that attribute.(1 Tim. 6:15,16). What are you saying?

"Shall mortal man be more just than GOD? Shall a man be more pure than his Maker?" Job 4:17. Is there anything in this text which implies that man has another component which is immortal?

malvisguy212:
In speaking of Rachel’s death at the birth of her son, Moses wrote: “And it came to pass, as her soul was departing (for she died)” (Genesis 35:18).

If you want to say that somebody has died, what do you say? "He is no more" - right?

If I say, "She has left the world", What do you think I mean? Simple - She is dead.

Note the bolded part above too. It did not say "her soul was departing from her body". When it says her soul was departing, it implies she was about to leave the world to the place of the dead(grave).

The lie which you have chosen to believe, that the soul is immortal, is not founded on the Bible.

malvisguy212:
In revelation 5:1 and 6:9. The bible indicate john saw the soul of those who have been slain for the word of God. This imply that underneath of a body there exist a soul who survive the body.

So, what was the soul doing as it survived the body?

If the soul is immortal(which means, it cannot die), why did the Bible in 1 Tim. 6:16 say that only GOD has immortality?

Can you mention one place in the Bible which supports your false claim that the soul is immortal?

Can you define the soul, according to the Bible?

Scholar8200:
what makes the fire eternal? Besides, do you agree with your friend that claims the fire is symbolic?

The fire is eternal because it cannot be quenched, till it has completely and totally burned, destroyed and annihilated whatever it is burning, obliterating it from existence forever and ever. See Jude 7.

Read Malachi 4:1, 3. This same eternal fire is seen here. This is the fire that will totally obliterate sin, sinners, Satan and his angels.

Read 2 Thess. 1:8,9. Here, Paul talks about the kind of destruction with which the wicked will be destroyed. He says it is an "everlasting destruction from the presence of the LORD." The effects of the destruction is permanent. The wicked will cease to exist.

Scholar8200:
I have, you have chosen to close your eyes to them!

I used to have a fellow corps member just like you. Show him scriptures that contradicts his claims and when he has nothing to say, he jots it down and continues arguing blindly! The passage jotted down would not be re-visited again!

Support your false claim that the soul is immortal with a Bible text.

Scholar8200:
Call it whatever, however, give ONE proof of an 'angelic death' in the bible. (until you do this all posts from you that mentions my name would be ignored).

Read Rev.20. Satan himself, the prince of rebellion, will be destroyed completely by the eternal fire.

CANTICLES:
he err big time .

As in ehn. E tire me.

Scholar8200:
Now see the Word thus translated:

◄ 5590. psuché ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
soul, life, self

From psucho; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely ([size=14pt]the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from pneuma[/size], which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from zoe, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew nephesh, ruwach and chay) -- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Do we blame the translators for using a transliteration here? NO, they were not 21st century linguistic scholars. Besides, it is clear that no one assumed wrongly that the synonym for soul=immortal. That holds only in man, made in the Divine Image.

You have not supported your false view that the soul is immortal with Biblical texts.

Scholar8200:
Before we proceed I suggest you change that passage to one with proper application to man, that one refers to the animals enumerated in vs 25-28!

Rev. 16:3 refers to animals as souls too. Are they immortal?

Scholar8200:
Vs 25-28 was talking of the animals, not man.

Now, do you know that the Bible refers to animals as souls too?

"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea" Rev. 16:3

Now, are the souls of animals immortal too?

Scholar8200:
Are you saying Adam was dead initially at creation? If yes, why did he not return to the same state after he sinned? Or, was satan right after all?

Psalm 104:29,30 "Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust..."

How can you say the before GOD gave Adam the breath of life, he was alive, since the removal of the breath results in death? If Adam was alive before GOD breathed into his nostrils, was there any need of GOD doing so again?

Scholar8200:
Are you saying he was a corpse?

Here is another proof of the fact that without the breath of life, man is lifeless:

"Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, and they are created" Psalm 104:29,30

Scholar8200:
Are you saying he was a corpse?

You can call him a corpse, yeah. The Bible is very clear that Adam was lifeless after GOD created him. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, and he became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7)

Scholar8200:
Yeah, sure. Now let's see further the experience of Paul:

I know a [a]man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, [only] God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know that such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, [only] God knows— 4 was caught up into [c]Paradise and heard inexpressible words which man is not permitted to speak [words too sacred to tell]
2 Corinth 12:2-4

Was the soul ever mentioned in that text?

Somebody can be in the spirit and caught up by GOD. See Rev. 1:10.

But that does not in anyways support your claim of the immortality of the soul.

Scholar8200:
That's easy! Was Adam a lifeless corpse after God created him?

Are you trying to say Adam was alive before GOD breathed into his nostrils the "breath of life"?(Gen. 2:7)

Scholar8200:
Interesting! So, who are the highlighted:

in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.
1 Peter 3:19,20

Christ, through the Holy Spirit in Noah preached to and pleaded with men when Noah was building the ark. Note the bolded part in the text above. The preaching happened during the building of the ark. It does not in any way imply that those souls are still alive today.

Also, the word "now" as bolded above does not appear in the King James Version. It only appears in the NASB and the NAS1977 versions. All these versions were translated from the KJV.

KJV reads: "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" 1 Pet. 3:19.

The spirits were in the prison of sin, not in a physical prison.

Scholar8200:
Read and discern:

For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as the division of the [c]soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

Does this in any way support the claim that the soul is a separate, immortal entity?

Scholar8200:
What meaneth this:

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28

If you are right, it should mean that he that kills the body has killed the soul too!!!

Do you not believe in the resurrection of the wicked unto their second and final death? The Bible clearly teaches that the wicked will be raise again (after the millenium) to their total and complete annihilation. See Rev. 20:5

Scholar8200:
like their flood victim counterparts, they are still under judgement at present.

Where are they under judgment?

Scholar8200:
The inhabitants are still burning today.

Where are they burning?

Scholar8200:
Since all men die, this refers not to the death of separation soul and body but separation of soul from God in judgement. Jesus tasted this death for all men when He cried out on he cross and shortly gave up the ghost.

Does the Bible teach that the soul is an entity separate from the body?

"And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

When GOD finished creating man, he was just a structure of dust. The soul had not come into existence. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. Therefore, the body plus the breath of life is the soul.

Note also that the Bible says man "became" a living soul. It did not say man "had" a living soul.

Therefore, the teaching that the soul is a separate entity in man is unbiblical.

Scholar8200:
Now that the devil has been in operation since Genesis till now, does that mean he has Eternal Life loaned him?

The devil is a spirit, and so cannot die physical death. However, the Bible teaches that GOD will destroy him together with sinners at the end.

Scholar8200:
The CITIES were overthrown permanently, not the men.

Are you saying the fire affected only the buildings and trees in the city, but did not affect the men?

Scholar8200:
Immortality is not the same as Eternal Life!

If they are not the same, who has immortality and who has eternal life?